Wholesaling: Getting Started in Real Estate with Minimal Capital feat. Josiah Grimes

Hello, future billionaires. Welcome back to the podcast. We had a really fun episode today. Bob, what do we talk about?

So we're going to be talking about wholesaling, real estate wholesaling. And this is, this is super interesting because we talk a lot about for, for accredited investors, right? How to, how to invest passively.

What if you're not accredited?

We got a lot of listeners who are not accredited, got a lot of hustle. And the number one way to create wealth in the world 2 proven ways. One is owning a business and two is in real estate. And so here's a way to do both. So take a listen.

Awesome. And as always, we give the disclaimer, we bring people on that are potentially raising capital or have another thing that they're selling. We do want to just say this is just for educational purposes only. We haven't done any due diligence, so do your own due diligence. But it's definitely very interesting. You want to hear this episode, so we hope you enjoy. This is the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast, where we uncover the alternative investments and strategies that billionaires use to grow wealth. The tools and tactics you'll learn from this podcast will make you a better investor and help you build legacy wealth. Join us as we dive into the world of alternative investments, uncover strategies of the ultra-wealthy, discuss economics, and interview successful investors.

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Welcome back to the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast. I am your co-host Ben Frazier, joined by co-host Bob Fraser. And today we've got an awesome guest, Josiah Grimes, who is the CEO and co-founder of KeyGlee. And if you have not heard of KeyGlee, they are the world's largest real estate wholesalers with 100 locations in the US. Josiah has been in this world of wholesaling really for the past over a decade and has been very successful and has created some really cool models, education, even franchises around wholesaling. And so, we wanted to bring him on and just talk about this whole world. We haven't discussed a lot of wholesaling and really excited to dive in. So, Josiah, thanks for coming on the podcast, man.

Thank you for having me, man. Yeah, I'm glad to be here.

Awesome. Well, give a little bit of your background, just how you started in this business. And for those that don't know, Wholesaling, what is it?

Yeah, wait a second. Cool. Yeah, man. So, um, a quick overview on wholesaling. And I know that wholesaling also gets, um, a bad rap in a lot of places because a lot of people think wholesaling is synonymous with daisy chaining, and it's not if you do it well. If you do it well, it can be a really phenomenal business model. You can bless a lot of people through it. Um, and so basically wholesaling is you are essentially brokering. You can think of it in one of two ways, brokering a piece of real estate, right? And, but without a fiduciary responsibility. And instead of receiving a commission, you're receiving an assignment fee, or you're receiving the spread between a simultaneous close. Most people, when I say that, they're like, I didn't help me very much. But essentially what you're doing is you're negotiating with the seller for a discounted property. And then you turn around and you sell that same property to a buyer before you close on it in cash, right? So before you have to actually close on it, you're going to take the buyer's funds and the buyer's funds are going to fund the purchase. And then you are essentially receiving a fee for facilitating everything. Now you have to do this correctly. You need equitable interest, otherwise you're going to break some brokering laws. And so there's definitely nuance to how you do it correctly, how you do it so it's 100% above board. And so that it's, it's a blessing to everyone involved instead of an annoyance or a nuisance.

So, so this is like the We Buy Ugly Houses type thing, right?

Very, very close. So We Buy Ugly Houses is actually HomeVestors. They're a franchise operation. Cool guys. And most of those guys are actually fixing, fixing and flipping. I see. Yes. A lot of those guys are actually purchasing for themselves and then fixing, flipping. There's a good chunk of them that wholesale as well. Okay, but very similar.

But that's the concept is you get someone to sell you kind of their home and you get a good price on it. And then, and then wholesaling means you immediately flip it out of the property, unrehabbed to a rehabber, right? Is that right?

Yes. Gotcha. And so really it kind of is like—

that was way better, man.

Well, you're effectively acting as a market maker, right? So I can— The stock market, you have market makers that are connecting buyers and sellers and they take a spread. The real estate market is a lot less efficient of a market because it's very fragmented, a lot of mom-and-pop ownership. So effectively, you're going and marketing to sellers that maybe have off-market properties. You go and create a deal with them and then you go remarket that deal to your list of rehabbers or those that would like this type of a property. And you're taking a little spread. And meanwhile, one of the advantages of doing this is you don't need a lot of cash to do it, right? You just need a little bit of a hustle muscle.

Yeah, really, though. Really? 100%. And that's so— so, yeah.

So it sounds like a marketing business and sounds kind of low margin. I mean, really, what kind of margins can you make in this, you know, this kind of business?

Yeah. And so, I mean, it's in some ways it's phenomenally high margin because it depends on— it depends on how you do it. So What we just talked about is kind of like the quintessential way of wholesaling, right? And what we do at Keegly or in our franchises or what we were kind of talking about as far as AstroFlipping, that type of stuff is a little bit different. And so instead of generally what the business entails is heavy marketing costs on the front end, which does really eat up your margins, right? Because you're either doing, like you're going to do postcards or you're going to do pay-per-click or you're going to do Facebook ads. And what those numbers kind of look like, just to get a little bit granular, might be you spend $5,000 on postcards, you get 15 phone calls, 2 actually want to sell their house, right? You drive out to those 2 houses and have those appointments. And if you don't close those appointments, you lost $5,000. Out of those 2 appointments, 1 actually is maybe semi-close to where you need the number to be, right? And then you keep working on that deal for 3 months. You finally get them to say, hey, okay, we'll do this deal. And now you've done one half the transaction, right? Where you've put— I'm making this sound— I'm making this sound terrible. All right. But there'll be saving grace. And I promise we do a lot of these. We do a lot of these, but not this way. But this is kind of your standard, right? And so then, and then after that, you need to go find a buyer before you close. And generally you're trying to close, you know, in 10 to 14 days. So you have a very short window to go find that buyer to actually close that property with the seller. And so that's normally the way the business works, which is really low margin. What a lot of people don't know is that if you restructure the business a little bit, and this is kind of what we did when we were starting KeyGlee, right? Because before KeyGlee, we were running that old school model and it was like the biggest challenge to get 2 to 3 deals a month, right? Like if we could get 3 deals a month, dude, we were like, we're finished, you know, like change the whole world. Whereas we got up to where we were doing 50, 60, 70, 80 deals a month. And the difference there was instead of us being the ones that were marketing direct to seller, we started bringing on supplier partners. And so someone that was just focused on the acquisition, acquiring the deal, and then we focused really heavily on the disposition side of the property or of the deal, which is selling the deal. And so we really built out our buyers list, not just to include fix and flippers, but also people that are looking to buy and hold. Institutional purchasers, right? So everything from private equity to hedge funds, the whole shebang. And so when we brought those in on the disposition side and we used suppliers that were bringing us deals, it cut out all of the cost essentially for the marketing side, right? Because now we're providing a service and we're getting paid for the service. We're essentially what's called co-wholesaling, but helping other people sell their deals. And so We become their dispositions partner, right? That's the only portion of the deal that we handle. And we cut out all of the heavy upfront expenses like marketing, right? So when we run the business, we're able to run it a lot leaner than most wholesalers. And that's how I would, honestly, that's how I would advise anyone that wants to get into wholesaling or get into real estate for that matter, is to come in, enter through wholesaling and use supplier partners that are going to bring you the deals on the front end instead of trying to go out and direct to seller market and spend a lot of money on marketing.

So yeah, supplier partners means affiliates who are finding deals for you. Is that what that means?

Yeah. So this can be anything from a bank that wants an easy way to offload their properties. This could be real— a real estate agent that once a month gets a property that they just would be ashamed to list because it's too beat up. Could be a real estate agent that is gonna, when they go and present their listing presentations, is also going to present your cash offer. Could be another wholesaler that's actually the one that's spending money on marketing, that's paying for the postcards, but has been doing this for 10 years. And so they, instead of going to those 2 appointments like maybe I would have, or, or, you know, Someone getting started would've, they would've gone to those 2 appointments and not gotten the deals. That person's an expert. They're gonna go to those, those 2 appointments, they're gonna close both of 'em, right? So from their perspective, the model works really well because they're super, they can spend the money and they know they're gonna close the deals cuz they've got that proficiency buil— built up, right? So any of those can be phenomenal deal suppliers. There's also, there's other, I mean, I could go on for a while, but those are kind of the main, the big ones.

So you build a pipeline basically of people that are bringing you deals and solving, solving the upfront, the upfront marketing cost problem. Yeah.

So you're giving up a little bit of the margin that you would get if you're on both sides of the transaction, both on the, you know, the buyer side and the seller side. But you can create— really focus on that one area of creating a big buyers list, execute on that, selling 10 extra volume, maybe a little bit smaller spread, but your net at the end of the day is going to be a lot bigger.

Is that— Yeah, 100%. And a lot of people, that's where a lot of people get caught up. It's like, "Dude, I don't want to lose half my deal." But two things. One, if you have good buyers, sometimes you can sell for more anyway. And then two, you're taking all of the major expenses out of it so you can transact at a much higher volume. And that's where— because otherwise you've got lead time and everything. You put $5,000 out today, That mail, like if you mail, dude, you put $5,000 out today, you're not even gonna get the phone, the mail isn't gonna hit for a week and you're not gonna get phone calls for 2 weeks, right?

Right.

And so if you're starting off and you got a $5,000 budget, it's a month before you even have the potential to close the deal and get your $5,000 back, you know? So yeah. Yeah.

So, so when you're getting started and wanting to get into real estate, you know, I always think you have one of 2 things, right? You either you have time or you have money, right? And if you have money, this probably isn't super appealing because it's work, right? You got to actively work this. You got to build the list. But if you're getting started out, you want to get into real estate, or you have a little bit of time and you want to learn the ropes, this is a great way to get started because there's very little upfront costs. If you get enough velocity, you can really build some nice cash flow.

Yeah, totally. The thing that I tell a lot of young guys and gals are like, "Oh man, I want to get into real estate investment and that type of stuff." Dude, if I literally— if they're a family member, anyone, I'm like, "Yo, start in wholesaling." Because there's zero— you don't have to put your— A lot of people want to jump in and do a fix and flip, which is really cool. But if you do wholesaling, you see such a high volume of deals, you get to the place where you see a property that you know for a fact you can sell. You know exactly what it's trading at. Just what you were saying, Ben, as far as being a market maker, You know what that, you know what that property's worth dead on, no questions, no guesses. You're not relying on your agent. You know, for a fact, like you see the deal and you're like, if I went and called that person and said, hey, I'll buy that today. Right. I know for a fact in 2 text messages, I can sell it and make 10 grand. Right. And that's, that is such a good confidence. Right. And you can build that wholesaling when you're fixing and flipping, you look at one property, it's just, you know, you have to rely on your agent. There's so many other variables. So I—

yeah, for me, it's a way to get your real estate education and, and get paid doing it, right? Exactly. So, so, Guy, which is awesome because we do, you know, this is Invest Like a Billionaire and, you know, you know, everybody wants, you know, you know, the big question is how do I become an accredited investor? For a lot of our guys and a lot of our, a lot of our listeners aren't. And so how do you get started? And, and as Ben said, yeah, you got it. You got a lot of hustle. Well, this, this can be a way you can make money. I mean, how much money How much money can a guy make? Who is, you know, give us an example of one. I mean, you have a franchise that you actually help people do this. Give us an example of a successful franchisee and how much can a guy make in a year?

You know, I wonder how I can say this because there's a bunch of restrictions with franchises, right? Like whatever happens in item 19, you can say. If it's not an item 19, you can't say it. Gotcha. So I can say it, maybe I could say it this way, right? Is I had some friends that started not saying whether or not they're a franchise. Um, I had some friends that started, and they started 4 weeks ago, and they've got $100 grand in the pipeline, right? So it's actually profit, profit, $96,000. It's like $96,000 in the pipeline, right? And they, they had some, they had some experience, uh, in real estate just in general coming in. Um, but I think that like you've got that on one extreme, or you can come in and absolutely smash it, zero marketing costs, just just go to town and do really well. The other extreme though, that is the, maybe the more normal, is you should, like, this is the mindset you should have coming in. You should expect to come in and freaking work ridiculously hard for 3 months, right? And maybe, maybe do 1 deal, right? And then you should expect to work 3 more months exceptionally hard, right? And remember, if you want to be like a quality janitor, like if you want to be a good janitor and know what chemicals to use, and get in the right routine, that's going to take you 6 months. And that's just to become a janitor, right? This is— we're talking about something that can make you a ton of money. So work super hard for the next 3 months. The next 3 months, you should start to see a deal or 2 a month, right? And then after 6 months, now all of a sudden you've got these strong relationships, you've got some proof, you start to have things that are— you've got a pipeline built out, right? And that's when you actually really start to have fun with the, you know, with the business, I think. But that's what I tell people to expect. I, I say, hey man, come in and expect to work exceptionally hard, like 6 days a week, 5 days a week, whenever you can. If you've got another job, this is lunch breaks, this is before, this is after, right? This is on every single break you have. Expect to work exceptionally hard for 3 to 6 months, right? But then you're going to start to see the fruit, and it's, it's literally like clockwork. I mean, unless you're just cussing everyone out on the phone, then that's not going to work. But if you're willing to come in and work and build relationships 3 to 6 months, then you can have a really nice business.

I mean, that's a good expectation, right? I mean, that's pretty cool. And so now we've seen the market slowing down dramatically, right, in single-family residences. So it's probably a little more work right now. But the people are still making money doing, doing wholesaling.

Yeah, very, very good question, man. And so what's, what's kind of neat about wholesaling, right, is that since you never, you never have your money out in properties, right, you really minimize, minimize the market risk, right? If the market's going up and down, you just need to adjust to wherever it's currently at. And you can do that in real time because you don't have any capital deployed. Right. And so it So that maybe is one other really nice factor about the model. The one thing that does happen is when the market initially shifts, a lot of your buyers are stuck in their old inventory, right? So a lot of your buyers are stuck in their old flips. They, they want to buy from you, right? Because they want to— that's how they earn their money, but they can't because they need their other stuff to sell. And that's normally, that's normally a 3-month lag. And so we had that last year, August, August through November-ish, somewhere in there, right, where we were slower. But it didn't halt, right? Like, we, we slowed down, but we, we certainly didn't end, you know what I mean? Like, we still were transacting quite a bit. It's just some of our buyers were locked up with previous inventory. And then this year, it's— we've been roaring into, um, 2023. So we've seen a lot of the— a lot of it returned to where we were, um, one of, of last year, which has been really Really encouraging, really fun. But yeah, that's—

What about on the sell side? Because what we're seeing in the single-family market, at least just at a broad level, is people that have residences that have really good debt in place, they don't want to sell because the cost to take on new debt is going to significantly increase their mortgage payment. So has there been a slowdown of inventory? Or is it you don't really manage that side of it, so it's really on the supplier relationships to generate that? Or what's kind of on the other side of it?

Good question, man. So I think the question was, is there a slowdown of inventory or is inventory increasing? Is that what you're asking?

Yeah.

So most places inventory has been increasing, right? And we started to see that change coming into the beginning of this year. Mortgage rates started to drop because the Fed started to say that their guidance was, hey, we're probably not going to keep raising as heavily as we have been, right? And so mortgage rates are going to factor in, are going to float above, obviously above the Fed rate, but they're kind of factoring in that risk. Is, is it, you know, are rates going to continue to go up or are they not? I mean, you guys, you guys are pros at this, but just as, you know, for anyone that's listening that's like, hey, what's going on? And so mortgage rates actually declined, um, in January, right, from what they were. Maybe I think the high was in November. So they declined over December, January. And so we saw from that, we saw some sellers now that had been waiting, or buyers that had been waiting, start to reenter the market, which was good.

Okay.

On the whole, inventory has been rising, which from our— from a wholesaler's perspective means it's now easier to acquire and harder to sell, right? And so that actually, if you are strong on the sales side like we are at, you know, like, like, which is really what Keegley prides itself on. And so it actually works out great for us, you know what I mean? So it works out great for us because now we've got more inbound properties. It's easier for our suppliers to acquire, and we can kind of say, hey, you know, we actually need lower prices. I mean, and they're able to go out and get those lower prices because the market is a little bit squishier than it was, say, you know, Q1 of last year.

So we don't really usually like to sell a franchise or sell an investment deal, but this is just so interesting. And so, so if, you know, you want to, you know, what kind What things do you offer as a franchisor to a franchisee? What kind of service did you offer, and why is it better to go with, with, with Keegley than it is to just do it on your own, uh, especially get started?

Good question, man. And the other thing too is like, I, I kind of encourage people like, bro, just give it a shot if you want to. Like, go to town, right? Because, you know, generally it's the things that we provide it—

I mean, on your own, try it on your own.

Yeah, like, go try it on your own, you know what I mean? Like, If you strike gold, high fives all around. Like, awesome, dude. We'll sell your deals for you. But what we do on the Keegly side is we try to give it so that it's like, hey, we want to make it as foolproof as humanly possible. So here's all the things you need. So what we do is we generate supplier and seller leads. So people that are going to bring you the deals. So leads on this side, right? And we've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars developing the software that allows us to bring those in and provide those leads. And then we also provide the buyer leads on this side, right? Which is where we sell and where our real strength is on the sales side. So we're providing both sides of leads, the people that bring you the deals and the people that will buy the deals from you, right? And then all of these—

are those geographically centered?

Yes. Yep. Okay. Yep. 100%. Yeah. And so all the lead, everything is obviously pertaining to the person's territory, right? Oh, gotcha. Whatever territory they're in. And then Kind of what sits in the middle is all the systems and processes that allow that flywheel to spin, right? So everything that allows us to work these leads properly, all the follow-ups, all that fun stuff, and everything that allows us to work these leads properly and process the properties through the— or process the transactions through, right? So, and everything from paperwork to scripts, all that stuff, obviously training and all that stuff is obviously included as well. So that way you're Your hand is being— you get all the systems, all the processes, all the leads you need, and your hand's being held throughout the process. Um, you know, I mean, it's— we try to make it as white glove as possible because the thing that's really cool about franchises is like, if the franchise wins, the franchisor wins, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's great. It's all around. So that's kind of the, uh, so that's what we, we, you know, provide, right? With that, if someone With that, that's for, you know, we've got obviously requirements and stuff like that for our franchisees, like franchisees that we'll bring in. And so some people don't, like, you know, some people don't qualify for that. And I absolutely— and for that, I encourage a lot of people like, hey, you know, go out and see if you can piece a deal together, you know what I mean? Use, use some old school Craigslist, Facebook group strategies, you know what I mean, to go out and find buyers and find sellers and go to some people's houses and get a contract signed. Right. Or call some real estate agents and say, hey, I'm looking to purchase a property in this area that needs to be beat up and priced accordingly. Right. And then if you get a deal and it looks good, call us and we'll help you sell it. Right.

And so you don't have to be a franchisee for you to help them sell a deal.

No. Yeah, definitely not. Yeah.

And so what does it cost to be a franchisee? So again, I'm really selling you here.

I don't know.

Don't—

I don't—

but it's just super interesting. So, so forgive us listeners for for going there, but what does it cost?

Cool. Thank you, man. So there's the initial fee and then the ongoing royalty. And so just like we said, it's a high margin business, right? And so the initial fee is $100 grand, right? And then the ongoing royalty is 15%, right? And then that's basically the cost basis. The requirements though, because We were— I mean, legitimately, we are a little bit picky with who we bring on as franchisees. It's really tough because you want everyone to, you know, like, you want everyone to have the opportunity to come in and crush it. And so we're— it's a rough thing because it's like, I bet this person could do well, but we're so close on requirements, right? And so there's other requirements we have because, for instance, one of the things that Is nice, obviously, is if the person is able to— they are necessary— is to extend earnest money on deals, right? And, uh, um, we've also got a brand kind of throughout the United States that we have to uphold. So there's some other, uh, monetary requirements that aren't— I wouldn't say aren't super steep, um, in order to be an owner of a franchise. But yeah, those are kind of the—

and that's, and that's, that's pretty common for, for franchising. So I used to be a banker and actually did a lot of franchise deals. And especially as you go up the food chain on really big franchise names, even a McDonald's or something, the requirements, upfront capital and financial requirements to do that is way, way more.

Exactly.

Right. So I mean, the bar, obviously there is a bar. So if you're just getting started, you may not be there, but to your point, There's a lot of ways that you can just get going, get the ball rolling, get some momentum, and build up a little bit of a pipeline. And then it sounds like you guys have a really cool plug-and-play model. One of the things we were talking about earlier before we hit the record button that I loved that you said, and I would 100% agree in, is I was a banker and underwriter and looking under the hood of all these wealthy people that we were lending money to. I was like, "What's the secret sauce? How'd they get this way? What's the success here?" And it usually boiled down to two factors. And one of them was either investing in real estate or business ownership. They owned a business. Those were the two most common denominators. The cool thing about franchising, not just Keyglee, but really any franchise, and we had another guy on the show a while ago talking about this, is it really gives you the roadmap in a proven business model that works if you execute and a proven way to create business ownership. It's a pretty cool thing. Then you add on it's in real estate as well. So if you like the world of real estate, it's a pretty neat thing.

Yeah, yeah, dude. So hey, Ben, so this is, this is, this is interesting too.

So as a banker, you know, isn't there a way to get SBA loans for to buy a franchise?

There definitely are. I would say for something like this is probably difficult because it's, um, you know, it's just goodwill, or it's just, you know, the franchise fee plus plus a royalty. Like generally you would get SBA loans on like your equipment or if you're buying a building or you can finance the franchise fee, but generally that's something that can be inclusive of a lot of other things. Yeah.

Okay. So very interesting. So, so what if someone doesn't have the 100 grand and they just want to do it on their own? What's the best way to learn how to become a wholesaler?

Great question, man. So there's I mean, there's, there's lots of— first off, there's a lot of free university type stuff, you know what I mean? You can go on YouTube, you can follow like Pace and Jamil. Jamil Damji is my partner in Keegly. I mean, so following them, they've got like podcasts, um, stuff on YouTube. Obviously that can be really useful, really helpful. Um, so I think learn, like, learn as much as you possibly can, right? Also, there's lots of guys that'll give out like free contract templates and stuff. You know what I mean? Or it's like, hey, I need a contract template, can someone help me out? Like, yeah, here you go, dude, here's an assignment. But the thing that I would, uh, the thing that I would say is, you, yeah, the easiest way would, like, if I'm like, hey, just how could I possibly get involved? What I would say is, is go to, like, this is just some tactical stuff, but like go to Google and type in your area and then discounted property, right? So like Phoenix discounted property. Right? And a whole list of wholesalers is going to pop up, right? And go through all of those and add yourself to every single one of those lists, right? Because the first thing you got to do is figure out what type of property is going on and what's selling, right? And so, and the other thing is, if you can get access to a tax record system, if you're not in Texas or a non-disclosure state, that is, um, then you can also see which ones of those properties are selling, right? But those wholesalers are people that you can buy from. So if you go get on everyone's list Right. I think another one that's great is typing in like investor caret and then Phoenix, because investor caret sets up a lot of wholesalers' websites. And so like investor caret Phoenix properties or something like that. And you hop on everyone's list. The easiest way is like, you'll start to see like this guy put the deal out and then this guy marked it up $20 grand over here and sold it. Like, well shoot, that's pretty crazy. I probably could have sat in between that. You know what I mean? I probably could have brokered that deal from this guy to this guy and made $10. And so that's like the most simplified version of wholesaling is build relationships, try to see properties first, and then one guy sends you a property for $190,000 that you think someone else will take it for $200,000, and you get a text from this guy at $190,000 and you send that text over here for $200,000. You need equitable interest in order to do this. Okay, there's a little bit more to it, but that guy says he'll take it for $200,000. High fives all around. You made $10,000, right? So I would say join Facebook groups, search on Google, join everyone's list. And then if you can get access to tax records where you can actually see who's purchasing the wholesale deals, like you look up the address of the wholesale deal someone emailed you and you see who actually closed on it, it's going to be an LLC. You take that LLC, pop it into Bizopedia, see who the members are, right? You can use Apollo to pull up their phone number or whatever, or find them on Facebook and message them. Like, that's— you can build in your buyers list. Your suppliers can be those wholesalers to begin. You can go to Zillow and call through agents and tell them you're looking for discounted property in your area, right? And if they can, if they get anything to send it to you, they send you a deal and you're like, oh, that looks like it could be a good deal, but you're not sure. You could always ask one of those wholesalers, hey man, I got a deal in this area. It's a 4-bed, 2-bath. Don't give them the address, they'll steal your deal. But it's a 4-bed, 2-bath, um, around this price. That sounds like something you can pick up. And the guy's like, yeah man, I'd love to buy that. Sweet. Go back to the agent, put it under contract. Sell it to that guy. So anyhow, well, sounds easy.

Very cool.

Sounds like a lot of work, actually. It's not. Yeah, it's not. It's not. It's legitimately not hard. It's one of those things where once you— the first time someone explains it to you, you're like, well, this seems like a lot of moving pieces, my guy. But once you— it's a pretty simple blueprint. Once you know it, you can just kind of rinse and repeat, and it's really— it's not that hard, and it's a lot of fun.

So, and you guys have a lot of education arms too, right? So you have Keegly, which is the franchise, um, company, but you have Astro Flipping, Sub2, I think a couple other brands that are— is this geared for people to learn at the business or just for your franchisees, or is this for anybody that wants to learn?

Good question, man. So it 100% is for people that are looking to learn. So Astro Flipping is the exact strategy we use in Keyglee. And so that's the other thing. The other thing that a lot of people do that are like, "Hey, man, didn't quite qualify for Keyglee franchise, but if you start an Astro Flipping," and you start to build up the business and you use that as a blueprint. Astro Flipping is something like 60 hours of curated content, but then also community and live Q&A with Jamil, my business partner in Keyglee. And so a lot of people go in there, start their deal flow, start to get things moving, build up enough credibility to then move to a Keyglee franchise or enough dollars basically to move to a Keyglee franchise. And then they're able to transition into a keeping franchise. And so that's AstroFlipping. Sub2 is with Pace Morby. He's an awesome, awesome dude, and that's really creative financing focused, which is purchasing deals where you walk into them, get cash flow, and you're going to keep them for a long time. So not quick turns for lump sums, but generally speaking, long-term cash flow passively with little money down to acquire the asset.

Very cool. I gotta give a shout out too to, uh, Jamil, um, who I've— before we even like met you, I got retargeted on all your Facebook campaigns and the ads are hilarious. Like, it's so funny because like if you're doing— you're running ads on Facebook, most people commenting are like, uh, this is stupid, you know, get off my feed. But his are just so funny, people just Like he's— he could be a stand-up comedian. I don't know if he is, but I mean, he's hilarious.

Legitimately, bro. Yeah.

Yeah.

And Jamil writes those too. Like the—

does he really?

Yeah. Like it was funny too because we had our internal content team put together a couple of them, right? And they're all right, you know what I mean? But like when Jamil writes them, dude, they're just like— he's just freaking hilarious.

So he's just—

yeah, got that mind. That's awesome. So for someone that maybe, you know, is like, this is a cool thing, but hey, I got I got plenty of money, I'm accredited, but I like some of the stuff you're doing. You guys also, you're putting together funds that are going and doing this at a bigger scale, right? You're using proprietary data or talk about that a little bit.

Yeah, 100%, man. So one thing that's been such a blessing and is just super cool is from the Keyglee side, we've got such a window into single-family properties across the US with all the franchisees and we see all the deal flow. Coming in, right?

And how many franchisees do you have again? I don't know if you said that.

I think 120, right around 120, something like that.

Okay, wow.

And so, um, we get to see— and then we've got our corporate stores as well, and so we get to see a lot of deal flow coming through. And so it helps us really identify— we literally get to pick the best possible deals, you know what I mean? Like, the best. Because they're, you know, the— when you own a Keebly franchise, you basically— we want you to own the market. So you see all the deal flow in and out, right? You're connected with all of the big players there, all of the big shops that are moving property. And so you see everything, right? So when something comes in that's especially a gem, you know it for a fact, like, hey, that's a gem. That's a deal that comes around once a quarter or once a year, right? A unicorn deal is what we call them, right? And so since we have that purview or that window into each market that we've got a franchise and then also our corporate stores, it allows us to really buy phenomenal assets, you know, I mean, for like on the single-family side of things. And so that's, that's one of the funds that's focused specifically around single-family, right, which is the Keegley Fund.

And so those are two where you guys purchase them and then do the flips yourselves, or is it just wholesale as well?

So we're going to— that's generally when we purchase it, we'll do a flip, we'll either purchase or purchase And then it was fun. We were talking. It was awesome, dude. It's so cool because the fund space is newer to me, right? We've done all the single-family real estate stuff. We've done some multifamily stuff, so I'm comfortable with that. But when it comes to, you know, so Reg D, okay, what type of Reg D? All the fun stuff. When I was talking with Bob at that event in Scottsdale, I'm just like, dude, I know nothing. Bob's so smart, dang. But But yeah, man, so that one's the single-family focus and the— Yeah, generally is going to be fix and flip, but sometimes we'll also, depending on the property—

Fix and hold?

Yeah, it could be fix and hold. Yep.

Got it. Very cool.

Yeah.

Cool. Well, Josiah, you have a lot of different brands, a lot of different things going on, but give us what's the best way just to kind of get into the ecosystem that you guys are doing if they're like, oh, it sounds like a cool thing. I want to kind of get more plugged in and just learn. This skillset, what's the best way to get plugged into what you guys are doing, education you're teaching, et cetera?

Yeah, I totally do. Well, honestly, man, I would say the best, it depends if you're looking to get after the real estate side of things. In all reality, following Pace Morby or Jamil Damji is a really phenomenal way to learn a lot. They give out a lot of free, really good education, and they care a ton about the success of the people that are essentially following them. Right. So that's on YouTube, Instagram, all that fun stuff. I know that they do a couple podcasts and that's where I always tell people to go plug in. Right. Me, on the other hand, I'm generally, I'm the guy at the office. I mean, like I'm working at the office, that's where my focus is. And so people can email me, but that's about it. So yeah.

What are the websites to go? Getting the email list and everything. Is it Keegly? And then you said Astro Flipping. We could put them all in the, uh, in the show notes. But is Astro Flipping the best kind of place to get started to kind of learn about this whole—

Yeah, so astroflipping.com can be great, or go.astroflipping.com. And then, uh, um, for Keegly, keegly.com or Keegly Franchising. What's also great is just to get on some of the Keegly lists so you can start to see the deals coming in in your local area. Right. And so you can do that at kuyglee.com, uh, K-U-Y-G-L-E-E.com, because no one knows how to spell it and very few people know how to say it. So I was pretty impressed. Awesome.

Well, Josiah, this has been really fun. Really appreciate you coming on and sharing this really cool niche, and you guys have obviously done very, very well, and appreciate the education, dude.

It's, it's been a pleasure. Thank you guys for having me. So it was always a joy to get to chat with you guys, and, uh, like I kind of said before, you guys are like 20 times smarter than I am, and so I feel like every time we talk, I also learn something. Which is really cool. So appreciate you guys.

Awesome, man. Thanks so much.