Why You Need To Think About Asset Protection To Safeguard Your Wealth W/ Kevin Day

This is the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast, where we uncover the alternative investments and strategies that billionaires use to grow wealth. The tools and tactics you'll learn from this podcast will make you a better investor and help you build legacy wealth. Join us as we dive into the world of alternative investments, uncover strategies of the ultra-wealthy, discuss economics, and and interview successful investors. Welcome back, listeners. I wanted to give a real quick intro to this next episode. We think you're going to love it. We could not contain our excitement on the episode, which should come through, but this is an episode where we interview Kevin Day, who is the premier attorney on asset protection. In the country, and he shared some really cool nuggets. So we talk about asset protection and privacy planning, which are concepts that may sound a little ethereal, but—

Some amazing strategies that he's laying forth that are used by the billionaires, but really are accessible to everybody. And really anybody should be looking at these. It's very much super important.

Yeah. He also talks about the biggest threats to investors, entrepreneurs, and what they are. And the answer will probably surprise you on what it actually is. And also talks about offshore trusts, which is kind of a whole different thing. So we hope you enjoy this episode. It's gonna be great. Welcome to the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast. I am your co-host Ben Fraser, joined by co-host Bob Fraser. And today we're really excited about this interview. We are speaking with Kevin Day of Trespp Day and Associates. And if you've been following this podcast for a little bit, you know we love talking about the strategies and the tactics that the ultra-wealthy are using and applying those into our personal financial plans. And one of the really, I think, very interesting topics, we're excited to get into this, but maybe underlooked areas of financial planning is asset protection and privacy planning. So we actually have one of the top, attorneys in the country, uh, on the podcast today talking about this. So real quick background on Kevin, um, he's from Solana Beach, um, has been practicing for over 30 years and is a partner at The Trust Day and Associates. He's been working lawsuit protection, estate planning, domestic international asset protection. He caters to high net worth individuals with complex situations as well as entrepreneurs, and his firm is one of the top 2 law firms in the country for estate planning focused on asset protection, privacy planning. And, uh, Kevin, you've written, I believe, 5 books in, uh, these different subjects, um, including kind of the books on offshore money strategies.

And, uh, I, I'm super pumped. I can't wait. I got about 100 questions I, I want to ask. So, uh, this is going to be—

we're going to have a blast.

Let's jump right in. Just, just maybe give us the quick, you know, uh, 30,000-foot view of, of kind of your journey into the space and how you landed where you are now?

Oh, it was totally by accident. Um, I have an MBA in international business. I was all about anything international, and just as I was starting my practice, uh, in 1987, the, the, uh, Hague Convention on, on international trust was signed by the United States, and it created for the first time when you could create an irrevocable or lawsuit-proof trust and name yourself as beneficiary. And entrepreneurs heard about that. They went to their lawyers. Their lawyers didn't know anything about it. They went to the continuing ed people and the 4 big continuing ed companies in the United States found me and, uh, uh, an attorney down in Florida who had beat me to the press with a little Nolo Press on lawsuit protection. And, uh, so he and I became the speakers around the United States. And, uh, I'd love to say that I had some brilliant plan, uh, in mind, but I didn't. I just was in the right place at the right time, and I count my blessings. And, uh, I've, I've had a great great life working with entrepreneurs, which I absolutely love. And I, I have full passion about what I do because our legal system, although it's a good legal system, so many bad things happen to people because our court system has gone awry that I feel very passionate about my area of law, protecting people from all the other lawyers, the litigation lawyers particularly.

The Sharks. So is this trust, this magic trust, you know, and I want you to explain just, you know, level 1, you know, what that is. Is that the main tool you're still using? And is that the key estate planning tool and asset protection tool?

That is a key because there, as entrepreneurs, people will be familiar with what can own things. Lawsuit protection boils down to technical ownership, not control, not whether is part of your estate plan, not whether you have full access to assets, it's legal title. And so corporations, LLCs, limited partnerships can own things, but they have to have owners. They have to have a shareholder member. There's only two ultimate owners in our legal system. That's a human being, nobody owns you, or an irrevocable trust, it's an ultimate owner. So we can segregate things under the law, even if you're the manager down below it, companies, even though you have your checkbook, even though you used to own it, even though it's your part of your estate plan, uh, it's separate from you under the law. And that's very powerful, to the point of legal deniability. If somebody asks you, do you own Golden Mountain Enterprises Company, you're able to legally, under penalty of perjury, say no, I am not. And that's a game changer. Uh, we don't want to rely on secrets. Secrets are powerful, Privacy is important, but we want to create a structure that I will be proud of and the client will be very pleased with if I can go to the judge and say, this is exactly what we did and when we did it, and you can't get to it.

So, so give us just a, just a concrete example of just super simple example of just how it works, what, what, how the trust works.

Yes, trust Essentially, this is a little bit technical, and that's why all of your listeners of Invest Like a Billionaire want— like every entrepreneur, they want to be in the fun stuff. And my stuff isn't fun because it's saying what horrible things can happen, right? But this is a little bit technical but important. Trusts split ownership. When we usually think of ownership, we think of the use of assets and legal title. What a trust does is split that to beneficial ownership and fiduciary ownership, or title holding, which is usually a trustee.

And where does control sit?

The control could be at the trust, but we work so that the trust is dormant. No entrepreneur, very few entrepreneurs want to be like a Kennedy grandchild and go to a trustee and say, write me a check or buy me a car or give me, you know, whatever, buy these, you know, things that I've been, investments that I've been following. So all we do is have the trust as the owner of the share certificate, but don't put any assets or account up into the trust, but that's legally sufficient to change the ownership from you to the trust. Trust, and we use underlying companies in privacy jurisdictions like Nevada or Wyoming where your name nor the ownership of the company is listed in the public records, unlike most other states. And you have the checkbook, so you're running your business, but you're only as a manager, and you still have the legal right to say, I'm not the owner, you can't take it.

Okay, so just again, super simple, because I'm a very practical— I'm an engineer by training, right? So, okay, so good. So you, you can You guys, so, so, so this is typically a business owner. Is this so? This is a business owner. So I've got to, you know, if that's your typical scenario, I create a trust in Wyoming. Just paint a picture. Where does ownership sit? Where does control sit? Where does— how does, how does beneficiary or beneficial ownership work? So just paint the picture.

So We create the trust and we put it on the shelf, and then we create the underlying company in a privacy jurisdiction that's owned by that trust.

So like an LLC or something?

LLC typically, 'cause it gives most tax flexibility.

Okay. Tax options.

Right. We usually use Nevada for the company, and the companies there are very good, but for budgetary constraints, sometimes we'll use Wyoming 'cause they're cheaper. To maintain. And all you do is know that you have an extra checkbook that you operate. You have two checkbooks now. We want your long-term savings accounts and investment accounts in this new privacy company, and that way you have segregated from you, but your life isn't going to change that much. So instead of having a savings and checking account in Kevin Day's name, now I have the checking account in Kevin Day's name, but the long-term savings account is now in Pine Tree Funding of Nevada.

So it's still, still, it's not clear to me. So you got an LLC, that's your business and that's your operating business. It's in the jurisdiction of Nevada, say, and then you actually that's owned by the trust. Is that what you end up doing? Is that correct?

Okay.

So you haven't— so the LLC is owned, but is owned by the trust. And, and so the trust then receives the benefit and is the owner of those— of that LLC. So where does control sit?

Control sits down in the LLC.

Okay.

The ownership is up in the trust. and you, the investor, are the beneficiary of the trust. So it's all for you and about you.

Interesting.

But you're not the legal technical owner. You're the beneficial owner.

So how does this help from an asset protection standpoint? Because from my understanding, a limited liability company, an LLC, provides some protection against liability, right? So, so what is this extra layer doing for an entrepreneur, say, from an asset protection standpoint?

That's the perfect question.

Okay.

As most people, even people that say they're lawsuit protection or asset protection attorneys, what they ask is, how many things do you own? Okay, we're going to give you 7 LLCs. And essentially it's putting eggs in different baskets.

Right. To protect one egg from the other egg going bad. Right.

Exactly. But you're going to lose if the lawsuit comes. Let's say if you have a rental property in, the boiler blows up, you're gonna lose that property even if they can't pierce the corporate veil, which they'll try to do. But let's say they don't pierce the corporate veil. You're gonna lose that rental because that rental is what harmed the person. But at least it doesn't come and take your homes, your cash investments, and your other properties. It does not, these companies, a company can be owned by another company, company, company. It's ultimately gonna end in the two ultimate owners, a trust or you. And if it ends in you, you get sued by a freak car accident, you get sued under a breach of contract. They always, lawyers always throw in fraud because they know insurance will not cover fraud and fraud allows them to pierce the corporate veil. So companies protect you from what's inside, but it doesn't protect those companies from your personal liability. And there's a bunch of ways to make you personally liable for things that are really company actions.

So boiler blows up, you could be sued because you were, you were, you engaged in fraud. They would, they would allege fraud and that would allow them to actually come after you personally.

Right, gotcha. Or even if they say, we emailed them as the landlord and said that there were weird sounds coming from that boiler and you don't get there before it blows up, then the corporate veil will be pierced.

Okay, so in a— but in a trust scenario, what happens there? How is that a firewall?

Yeah, the— what we do is take low-hanging fruit, cash and portfolio, and put it into that underlying company of the trust. So that's what lawyers want. They want cash and portfolio. They don't want properties, they don't want businesses. If that's all that's available, they'll go after that. But that's why you have fire sale. Everybody goes, those jerks, not only did they sue me and it was trumped up in a malicious lawsuit, but when they finally got my asset, they sold it at half its value. Uh-huh. And it's not really that they want more money, but they're afraid to hold it.

What else?

Is gonna go wrong with this property. And if we're the owner, then the tenants get to sue us, or the employees or the end users of the business get to sue us. So we're gonna jettison it at a fraction of the cost that it's valued at. And it's, a lot of travesties happen there. So with real property, particularly, that is a highlight, it's high value, but it's also high liability. We use a strategy, a new strategy that equity strips, puts friendly liens from your own structure, not from a bank. It's not Bank of America, but Golden Mountain Funding or lending looks like a hard money lender. So Bank of America's on first, and then your own company, Golden Mountain Lending, is on second. That certainly takes care of slip and falls, You know, little teeny lawsuits that can get big, but we contingency fee attorneys don't— don't— their business partner, you know, with you on the structure, and they're not going to go after something even no matter how great a case it is. I normally make $3 million.

There's nothing there.

An asset is not an asset if there's no equity in it.

Yeah, that's it. So you actually take the business and you would split it. You split out the cash and the assets and put them in the trust is the idea.

Yeah.

Yeah, very interesting. Very interesting.

And so did you say at the beginning that these are irrevocable trusts?

These are irrevocable trusts, 'cause revocable living trusts are still really important for avoiding probate, but they are not lawsuit protected. They have to be irrevocable trusts.

But you can still— this is where I think the kind of aha moment is, is where you kind of found a long time ago, is you can actually be named the beneficiary on an irrevocable trust because the whole idea is, right, it's separate from you, its own entity, like you're saying.

I didn't know that was possible.

I didn't either. I mean, that's kind of shocking.

Yeah, it's relatively still new to the law. Attorneys don't know about this little weird area. That's why they still think an LLC with charging order or corporate veil is sufficient.

Does this have estate planning positive benefits as well? Sounds like it would, right? Would it avoid probate?

It does. Any trust at its heart is an estate planning tool. So it will still inculcate all or include all of your estate planning desires. And it will mirror and work hand in glove with existing estate plans. We make sure it's drafted that way.

So, so a lot of times with the kind of irrevocable trusts, a lot of the reason to do that is for tax strategies or tax savings. Doing it in this structure, like you were talking about for asset protection, does it also add additional tax benefits if you put assets into these trusts as well, or not necessarily?

We, we, for tax advantages, essentially estate tax, gifting tax, uh, purposes, we would use the old-fashioned, from 1987 back to the, the 10th century, uh, irrevocable trust where we're gifting it to our children and grandchildren, dynasty trust, prior to our demise. Those are still lawsuit-proof. But most entrepreneurs say, you know, we still need to live on these these assets, and if I want to just take a million out of it, not just get a salary from the underlying company and control the investments, but, you know, before our knees give out, we just want to take a million dollars. We've earned all this, we've got $3 million, so we've got a million for each of the kids. We want to go to Europe. Uh, you can't do that if you have a children's irrevocable trust. So we have to have these special new trusts that have you as the beneficiary, and they're essentially tax neutral.

Okay, but now as a trust, you have to— you pay higher taxes, right? I mean, the trust is a taxable entity, correct?

It is unless you put special provisions in it. So we make the trust, even children's trusts, we neuter them for tax purposes.

Interesting.

But make them effective. It's actually called an intentionally defective grantor trust. You say, I don't want to buy anything that's defective. Yeah, so you want it effective for gift taxes, but defective so you still pay the taxes in your estate. And there's special provisions for that. The asset protection or lawsuit protection trusts are grantor trusts. So they have no tax effect. Whatsoever.

Wow. This is—

so we don't mess with people's current team.

Interesting. Okay. So what— at what point does someone need to start thinking about this? Because it's easy to put off, right? It's like going to the dentist, right? No offense, but, you know, it's always easy to say, no, that's for the big boys. At what point does someone really need to give you a call?

Um, well, if they have tenants, if they have employees, uh, even if they're small, you know, a little coffee cart business, really, you can't get it— you can't get enough insurance for one bad E. coli, you know, afternoon event. So, uh, doing some planning And here, here, just these are broad brushes, but at somebody at $4 million and above really should be considering the offshore trust, even though—

$4 million net worth.

$4 million net worth. Um, I found, and it took me a long time gleaning from my clients where their switchover point was, at about $3.5 million all of our creature comforts are taken care of, and we start to have disposable income, and we start to say, oh, I'm— I have more money that can make— instead of my just my W-2 job, I can invest in the market, or I can invest in real property and get my money pushing the ball for me instead of me pushing the ball. And so at that point, we found that estates really take a drastic at that $3.5 million mark. It varies for different people if they're savers and they live more, you know, tight budget stuff. But at that point, their estate starts to grow exponentially because of that disposable income. So, but there's plenty of us entrepreneurs that are at $1 million, $1.5 million, and we are, and our money actually, and our estate is is more critical to us because we're at that lower amount. And do you want to invest, you know, $5,000 or $6,000 to create a plan that will— insurance, we always— we never have people get out of insurance. You want that for the first problems, simple problems. You want to be able to turn it over to them. But If you've ever made a claim on insurance, what are they— the first thing they say? We're going to send it over to legal. What's legal doing? They're looking at a way not to pay it. You're right. And so taking things into your own hands, and that's what your, you know, podcast is all about— learning what's available and taking advantage of everything you can rather than relying on the system, because the system has problems, has major problems. And this is one of the ways to do it, have an irrevocable trust that protects your estate so that no matter how big of a weird event occurs in your life, people can't take your home and take your investments.

Well, what are, what are some of the biggest just kind of threats that, um, that you kind of see to investors and entrepreneurs? I mean, you know, what you're doing is similar to insurance in the sense that it's covering for kind of worst-case scenarios, but where do you find kind of in your work with clients and maybe even a horror story or two, you know. But what— where do, uh, you find that most clients are kind of the least protected, um, in, in the types of threats that, uh, you know, in litigation and, um, in ways that they could be exposed?

Yeah, uh, funnily enough, the biggest threat is still us driving cars.

Okay.

That's worse than employees. You know, you can have 150 employees, uh, you can have, you know, 100 doors, uh, tenants and stuff like that are our biggest threat. But we live in America and we just throw that out because we're gonna drive, right? That's still one of our biggest, uh, threats. Um, there was a recent case here in California about 9 months ago that a motorcycle was hit and there was a $63 million verdict.

Wow.

We don't buy that kind of insurance. We can't afford that kind of insurance. Um, so, uh, you don't have to hit a bus full of children to get into $5, $10, you know, $15 million judgments. You can hit a family of 4 and if it's the wrong kind of damage, you're wiped out and it's well over insurance limits. Employee issues, they typically— and even tenant issues, they're typically things that are going to be covered by insurance, the little things. But once people— this is what I found, uh, in all cases when there's litigation, the defense first job is to look if there's any prior similar cases that this plaintiff has brought. Often there's— somebody has the legitimate slip and fall or some kind of case against an employer, and the first thing that happens that they go, wow, I just got $15,000 for that little thing. And they go and try to invent that similar circumstances and create a malicious lawsuit later. Uh, we get a lot of clients that just say, oh my gosh, there was this invented lawsuit that occurred with tenants or with employees. Uh, we don't want that ever to happen again because it took a year and a half of our time. It took us away from our business. We became less efficient. Our profits went down over ridiculous circumstances and claims. And so we want to sew everything up so we can just throw things in their face, you know. What was it, Elon Musk and some other millionaire got into about a year and a half ago, got into a slander at each other, and Elon Musk said, you can sue away, I don't have anything to take, they're all in trust.

Wow.

Yeah, so there's a perfect example. And I mean, the billionaire strategies, they're doing this right. They've already done this. They've locked everything up. And, you know, one of your points, too, is not just asset protection, but it's privacy where the ownership is actually— I mean, you can't even tell who owns. Is that right? Is that an issue?

Exactly. You know, 8, 10 years ago, you had to hire a private investigator to get any kind of information on someone. Now there's all kinds of programs that you can find out where people lived, what they own, what companies they might be associated with. The presumption is if your name comes up with a company, unless it's IBM, they're presuming that you're— might not be the entire owner, but you have ownership if you're the president or manager of a company. So using jurisdictions that, that support privacy is really important for lowering your profile. You know, if we look at you and say, oh, they're associated with 3 companies and they own, you know, X number of properties, this is going to be a good lawsuit, says the attorney.

Wow.

But if they go, wow, they only own their home and there's no equity in it and they don't see the 4 other companies that you own, they're not going to be very enthusiastic about that case. We might run it up the flagpole, but we better take a settlement early and fast and low because I don't think you can get anything out of this turnip.

Wow, this is so interesting. So I, I want to— I have a lot of questions about the offshore strategies. So, so, you know, some of our biggest threats are not just domestic lawsuits and, you know, log on crazy, but, you know, Washington, D.C., you know, and, you know, state capitals and You know, you look at some of the craziness that's being propagated out there, and certainly high net worths are, you know, paint a bullseye on everyone, you know, and the presumption of wrongdoing. So, I mean, just talk— I mean, what is out there? I didn't— honestly, just clueless. So, you know, what are the possibilities?

Yeah, so what's wonderful about the Hague Convention on Trusts, us signing it, it's very high-level law. As you know, municipal law is superseded by state law, and state law is superseded by federal law. And everybody, including lawyers, say the next thing is the U.S. Constitution. If they never had some esoteric electives in law school, they're not thinking in terms of treaties, presidential decrees, and conventions. And they are superior to federal law. Wow. And so under U.S. law, it removes U.S. court jurisdiction over the trust. So if somebody wants to bust that trust, they have to fly to the Isle of Man or Cook Islands or Montserrat, wherever we put these trusts, and sue under that country's laws. The rest of the world— we're the only country— we've infected actually Canada, and we're trying to influence, uh, the UK, but We used to be the, the only country that has, uh, does not have a loser pays system. The rest of the world says if you sue somebody and it, it was wrong, then you have to pay all the defense fees and costs. So a lot of these foreign countries, knowing that America is part of their market, they require a cash bond only of the plaintiff to run the case.

Wow.

So that's a big hurdle.

So if you're going to sue someone in these other countries, you got to put up a chunk of cash.

Yeah, in case you lose $100,000.

Oh man, that's, that's deterrent. So that's a huge deterrent.

Okay, they have short statute of limitations, and they're here— statute of limitations are a bar on running particular cases. So a breach of contract is 2 years if it if it's oral contract, 4 years if it's written. There's some construction defect case, you know, statutes that are 10 years long. Well, the only way to attack an irrevocable trust domestically or internationally is to prove fraudulent conveyance, that you had a known existing current creditor already and you're trying to dodge paying them. Wow. And so we could set up a trust in the Cook Islands, for instance, that has a 2-year statute of limitations on fraudulent conveyance. And in the United States, judges are the law, not this, not the written law. And so a judge can say, oh, you can have another year, we think there's another enough circumstances. So it's not a drop-dead statute, but the rest of the world adheres to their statutes. And so we could set up a trust today, somebody gets into a car accident or something 4 months from now. We could drag the U.S. case out before they even knew that there was an international component to your, your structure. 2 years is a short statute of limitations. Wow.

So, so the, the offshore money strategies is primarily, again, it's lawsuit protection. Is that, is that really the, the main benefit? Is that the only benefit?

Well, the legal— having the legal deniability of any irrevocable trust Uh, if they see the interaction between this Golden Mountain funding and they ask you, you know, are you an owner of this, and you're able to say no, I'm not, uh, that shuts things down.

Okay, so, so, so it's not, it's not a tax strategy, it's not tax avoidance, it's just asset protection?

Yes, and it's very powerful asset protection.

Okay.

There are a few things internationally that you can do that are tax effective, but there are very few circumstances where people can do that. There are insurance wrappers, for instance, uh, that we can have a lot more flexibility with our investments internationally but still comply as insurance here in the United States. There's a thing called, um, uh, non-Subpart F income for controlled foreign corporations internationally where people can It's rare, but people are in the right circumstances where they can actually have income that they report but don't have to pay taxes until they repatriate it to the United States. But most people aren't in those circumstances.

Give me a sense of the budget for— I mean, you said $5,000 to $6,000 for kind of a, you know, smaller end, you know, kind of a cost range. What would it be for for something more, you know, the international kind of thing? And what does it cost you to maintain those things?

Let's say if you had the Katz Meow through everything in for a domestic plan, including the equity stripping strategy and the privacy company, that's going to be about $10,000. We have structures starting at about $5,000 for the smaller estates, but still on the smaller estates staying domestic.

I mean, that's cheap insurance actually.

Very cheap.

Oh, it is. Exactly.

Yeah. That, that's why the little coffee cart entrepreneur—

So you weren't—

Yeah.

Yeah. That's not hyperbole. That's, that's amazing. Okay.

And then, um, the, the international, the trust is going to be about $28,000, but then the privacy company and the other things. So it's typically going to be around $30,000.

And what does it cost to maintain these? Because there's extra tax, uh, returns that have to be filed and there's fees that are going to the jurisdictions, etc. What does it typically cost?

Well, actually, as a disregarded entity, there aren't extra tax requirements on the trust.

Oh.

But the underlying company, even if it's pass-through LLC, there is the K-1 that needs to be filed. So there is a little bit more there. A domestic is going to be about $450 a year to maintain. The international, we need a commercial trustee. So it's going to be about $2,000 a year between the government annual registration internationally and the international trustee.

That's still not that bad. And then what about, you know, can you use a normal CPA to do your taxes anymore? It sounds like that now you have to hire an international genius to do your taxes.

Yeah, you, you, again, it's disregarded. There is a one form, a 3520 form, which is a declaration form, which is the best part of your defense file to say to the other side that's suing you here that just found out about your offshore trust, which they usually don't find out about. 20% do. Um, and we say, oh, here's the U.S. law, it's recognized in all 50 states, and oh, by the way, here's my form that I have to file with the U.S. IRS because it's an irrevocable trust. You can't get this. This is legitimate. It's, you know, as soon as you say international, the other side will try to make hay day. Oh, there's something nefarious going on. Well, no, here's our filing to the IRS.

Wow.

We work with the client CPA so that it's just a one-page form. And as soon as the CPA does their first one, they now have a template and they can use it for all the future.

You know, there's that little checkbox on the tax return says, you know, do you own a foreign account or foreign? You know, it's like that always terrifies me to think about checking that, you know, you know what, you know what I'm talking about. Do you have to check that?

Oh, yeah.

Do you have to check that?

No, not with the trust. If we open all— because typically we have offshore trusts, but we have domestic entities I mean, we're still the safest place to keep people's money, really. Uh, there are, you know, legitimate ways to invest internationally, but, um, uh, most entrepreneurs want to keep, you know, in their funds here. So we're importing foreign laws, not exporting assets.

Wow, very, very, very interesting. This is something, honestly, everybody needs to be thinking about. You know, it really is the, the, uh You know, it's the dentist trip that you really should— you know, I shouldn't be saying that, right? Because it really is, it's really, it really is important. I mean, for your future. Um, this is absolutely fantastic information.

Yeah, Kevin, what else are we not asking? What are kind of the kind of final thoughts you want to leave us with here?

Well, we do a thing called road mapping. It's— it costs $350. To look at where you are now and where you would be for your estate and your objectives and your types of liabilities, what a perfect answer would be. And then the roadmap is, if you don't have the budget for it, what are the incremental steps to get there instead of just throwing ropes right and left and they're not the right entities that you're forming, and then you need to throw them away later, and you spent money not building toward the ultimate goal. You know, have the end in mind is, is important, and we can do that. We, we spend about $1,000 worth of our time on that. We just want to stop looky-loos. Uh, so the $350 for the type of analysis is done is, is an inexpensive price.

Yeah, yeah, that's pretty incredible. Well, what's the best way for, uh, folks to kind of get a hold of your firm, um, if this is interesting to them?

Yeah, info@trespdai.com. That's T-R-E-S-P-D-A-Y dot com. Info@trespdai.com. Or they can call us at 858-755-6672. 858-755-6672. And say, just heard Kevin on the Invest Like a Billionaire, and we would like to do the roadmap.

I'm going to be first in line.

Kevin, this is awesome. We'll definitely link to that in our show notes here for folks to have a real quick way to reach you. But I really appreciate you taking the time and making these concepts that seem a little daunting very simple and really making it very accessible to an audience that maybe didn't think this was possible. So I'm really excited. And, uh, really glad to have you on. Thanks so much.

Thank you for having me on. And our philosophy is exactly like yours: if it's good for the big dogs, how can us little dogs—

come on, that's right.

Awesome.

Thanks so much.