The Book Marketing Mix - 4P's for Your Book

Hello, hello, hello. Happy Tuesday. Welcome to our every other Tuesday live stream. Today's topic is all about applying the four Ps of marketing to your book. So this is the, the four the mix. The, the marketing mix is what they commonly call it, the four Ps of marketing. And if you're not familiar with the four Ps, that's okay. Probably just means you didn't sit through a whole bunch of marketing courses in college or university. And that is a. Okay, because we'll give you a crash course of what you need to know as far as it applies to being an author and selling your book. It is, however, in case you're wondering what those four Ps are, product price, promotion and place. Actually, it's usually said product price, place, promotion is the order it usually is discussed in. So that's what we're talking about today. Welcome. Say hello. Hello, Kat. Kat. Kat has already done so and said hello. Welcome. And Angela of course is in the house. Thank you, Angela. Angela is our operations manager at Book Launchers and she will be chatting with you in the comments. So make sure you say hello. All right, so let me, while we're waiting for people to join in and say hello, let's chat about a couple of other cool things. First, if you're watching the replay, also say hello just like you were live. Play along. There's prizes and of course my everlasting appreciation for your participation. And if you're here with me now, it's a great time to say hello now. Also, just to know we have a book reviewer community, if you don't know that already, if you want pre release or if you want access to pre release books or complimentary copies of some of our awesome, awesome books, you can sign up and I will drop that link right here upstairs. Did I grab it? One moment, I'll grab that link for you and drop it in the comment box so you can go ahead and get yourself all signed up and you can. And we're going to be sending out, I believe, a list of the April releases or something like that because we have a lot of books that we're launching in April. So there's some really great books coming down the pipe and you can be some of the first folks to get in on reading those and of course posting your reviews. So. And a first to be a first. Yes, Kat, it's always great to be first. And the other thing I want you to know about is our deep dive training so happening on Saturday, April 16th at 10:00am Pacific Standard Time we have our next deep dive and this one is the building blocks of your book. So this is all about writing your book. We're going to talk about the hook, the audience, how to outline the writing process, and working with a writing coach, working with a writing writer to assist you. And our manager of manuscript development, Dan Good is going to be joining me for that deep dive training. And as always, Angela Jones will also be in the house to help keep us organized and chat with you guys in the comments while Dan and I will be delivering the content for that session. So if you are thinking about a new book or you're working on one, that is going to be be the perfect session for you to join in. So that is book launchers.com forward slash deep dive. To get in on that, you do need to register. We don't usually post the replays of those sessions. We usually only have them live. That said, two weeks ago and I'm still kind of recovering from this whole thing. I had pink eye, I had strep throat, I was falling apart. And I'm still not 100%, but I'm almost there. Uh, and, and so when I was sick, I posted a replay from our February session which was all about live event marketing. I'll put the link to that in the description below and I will also just drop it here for you watching. Um, oops. There we go. And Brenda, hello. I don't know if I've seen you here before, but welcome. Always great to have you. So I just put the link in there for the deep dive replay that I did post. Normally you have to be live, but it was my way of making it up to you that I wasn't here live for last for two weeks ago. So let's get into today's content. It looks like we've got lots of people here. Lots of you have not said hello yet, so please do. But let's get into it. So four P's sometimes called the marketing mix. It's what you need to think about when you think marketing and kind of like the smart goal framework. I don't love the four P's, but I thought it was kind of a different angle for us to take on book marketing for the day because. So I'm embracing it for the moment, but it's one of those things where I kind of feel like it's. It's a bit overdone. I was reading, I'm working on a book on book marketing. And so as part of that, I've been reading all kinds of books. My Kindle is full of marketing books of all kinds. And I was reading a book on the weekend, I believe, and the entire mark, the entire book was based on the four Ps and applying it to book marketing, which I thought was funny because I'd already planned to do this session, but they'd broken it up into kind of four sections and in a way it was cool. And then the other thing that kept going through my head is it's kind of been done so many times. The four P's, the marketing mix, it originated, I don't even know, but before the 1960s and then in the 1960s, it kind of was solidified and finalized and really brought into businesses for strategy discussion on their, on their products and services. So it's been around for a long time, but kind of fun to look at book marketing from different angles. So that's what we're doing today. So product price, place, promotion are the four P's, and it is considered a mix. And that is where it's kind of neat because it's not one way. Like you play with each of these things in order to come up with a mix to sell your product or your service, in our case, your book. So the product, let's dive into that. This is your book, okay? That's the product you're offering to readers. But you have to be thinking about your product as far as it's positioned for your audience, for your reader. So going back to what we always talk about as far as hook is what problem does your book solve for your reader and how does that compare to other offerings on the market? And this is coming into the packaging of that product too. So we're talking title description, as far as I'm concerned. It's all the elements we talk about all the time. Your title, your description, your cover, your table of contents. So I've got an example for you here. Hopefully this turns out okay. So this is a cool one. This is kick ass Presentations by Dan Fraser. And I like this because the subtitle, wow. Audiences with PowerPoint slides that click humor that's quick, and messages that stick. And so I like this because it's not just another book on public speaking or making a presentation. What Dan has done is, I mean, talk about a no boring presentation, right? Like this stands out. And Dan has done a great job of really kind of taking somebody who might have to give a workplace talk. So they're going to use PowerPoint slides. They're going to, you know, they're going to stand up in front of an audience. And maybe this is not their goal is not to be a professional speaker, but as part of their work, they have to give a presentation. And they don't want people snoozing. They want to impress their boss and they want to be clever. You know, it can create opportunities for promotion, advancement, et cetera, et cetera. And so he's done a great job of putting a guide together that will help anyone, you know, even if you do have aspirations of advancing in a speaking career, but it will help anyone that is wanting to have an engaging, unique, interesting, fun presentation and create that and use your PowerPoint slides in particular to really facilitate and support that presentation. So this is a cool product. The audience is fairly clear, and the offer and the positioning is also clear. It is not a, you know, how to get a TED talk. It's. It's how to use those PowerPoint slides to create a really, well, quick, fun message that sticks for your audience. So you want to think about that. So what is it that you offer? Who is it for? And what problem does it solve? Solve? Okay, that's what product is. And then it's really putting it all together so that your reader, your audience, they know it's for them. Cool. Just going to check in on all of you here. Donald is in the house. Hello, Donald. Great to have you here, Dan. Oh, I didn't even know you were here, Dan. And here I'm showing your book. Isn't that fun? I love that. That's great. I didn't. I didn't give Dan advanced warning that I was going to be talking about his book. Sorry. It's 88 in Las Vegas and the air conditioner in the office just cut out, so I have to cool down a little bit. But that's awesome. I'm so glad you're here, Dan. And position could be the fifth P. You're right, Kat. There's also a few other P's. Like, once you get going into it, you'll see that positioning is another one. And I had another thought when I was prepping all of this stuff, too. A platform. I could argue platform, especially when it comes to book marketing, is another P as well. And Angela says it's hotter in Vegas than it is in Florida. Yeah, but we don't have the humidity, so that's the one difference. And it was totally. I was actually cool in my office earlier. I think the air just cut out, so. Prairie Fire. Oh, that's awesome to hear. And this is Matt. Oh, Matt's here, too. I should have clued in when I saw Prairie Fire. Okay, all right. So back to my point. And it was just great, because Prairie Fire has said, Dan's book is great. I'm 33% through it. A very precise number, but it's because it's according to Kindle, and he's already been applying Dan's tips on his webinar. So that's fantastic. Clients supporting clients. That's fantastic. Okay, back to our P's, shall we? So that's your product, and there's a lot there, and we spend a lot of time talking about it, but that is really why we do spend a lot of time talking about it. Because, you know, this, at the end of the day, is what you're selling, you're offering. It has to be something that is going to appeal to your reader, that it's clear who it's for, what problem it solves, that the COVID stands out, that it, you know, screams interesting and exciting. And let me just see who else I've got back here. There's some other books. I have a nice stack here. See if there's anybody else I want to mention. Yeah, I mean, this one's a good one, too, as far as that goes. So this is called the Analytic Detective, and it says the subtitle is decipher your company's data clues and become irreplaceable. And it is for anybody in a company that is analyzing data and has to present it to other people in the company. And so it's a great. It's kind of that, you know, you don't want to go in with a whole bunch of data that doesn't have the why behind it or the meaning. And so it's all about how to not only decipher that data, but then turn it into something that is meaningful and useful to other people in your company. So it's a little bit like the presentations. It's like how if you want to present this to your boss, if you want people to listen, listen to the data and take action on the data. How do you position and prepare it? So. So that's a really cool one, too. And you might not be able to see the COVID but it's got code in it and it's a magnifying glass. I think it's really a really, really cool cover. Okay, so that's your product price. Price. Well, there's a lot here. And one thing I hope you already know is that it's not just about. Is it 9.99? Is it $1.99 is it 1099. Price is about value and it's about the perceived value. It's about the value relative to the other books that you're sitting beside on the virtual shelf or the real shelf. So it's really about looking at who you're sitting beside and positioning it. And one of the things I am not a fan of generally there are exceptions to this, but generally I'm not a fan of giving nonfiction books away for free because of this. It's not. And I mean, generally speaking, we've done some giveaway promotions with our authors in the hopes that it generates reviews and sometimes it does. But you can give a thousand books away and not get a review, whereas you can sell 10 books and get two reviews. So there is a commitment factor of people who get books for free versus even paying 99 cents for a book. But I'm really, truly not a fan of giving the books away as far as like giving a free ebook because of that value factor. Because I mean, check this book out again. I just grabbed these off my shelf. This is Babs Facen's book Cracking the Life code Subtitle is the keys to master your mindset habits and behaviors for personal success. I don't know if you can see how thick this is. I mean, Steve Leeds book is a little bit thinner on the thinner side. I don't know their word counts off the top of my head, but this is a big hefty book if you give this away for free. I mean, I don't know how committed somebody is going to be to reading this 440 page book because it's a thick one. And also, what are you saying about all of the information and expertise and years and research and experience that you've put into a book that you turn around and give it away for free? So I always. There's certain times and places where free can make sense, but for fiction authors it's a different story. And that's where I think a lot of book marketing messages can get confusing for people because there is a lot of talk of giving books away for free. When you are a fiction author and you're trying to get somebody into your ecosystem so they read all the books you've written and you're putting out a book a year or book every six months or some of the really prolific fiction writers are putting out one every three months or, you know, every 60 days. You free is great. You want to bring somebody in, hook them into your writing and then have them go, what Next. What else? Because they're going to. That's where the whale readers are. I'm in Vegas so we can talk about whales because they have them at the casinos. But whale readers will read a book every single day. And they are the ones that if you can get them into your ecosystem, you can sell them everything you've ever written. Nonfiction is not like that. Even if you've got a series of three books, which is kind of seems to be some of the, some of the thinner books might have six or eight. But, you know, even if you've got a series, your goal most of the time isn't to get them to come in and read everything you've written. Your goal is probably to get them to come in, hire you to speak, you know, buy your course, come to your workshop, you know, buy your product, hire you for consulting, or even just tell their friends so that you can be the known name in the industry. So the free doesn't usually achieve your objective. But pricing is value based. That's really what I want you to take away from this. So you want to look at what other books are priced at that you're competing with and how much value are you offering in that book. Now, that doesn't mean that a book like Babs, who may be, you know, cracking the life code, maybe this is massively valuable as far as, you know, when his ideal reader picks it up, you know, there's tens of thousands of dollars of value here. That doesn't mean you get to charge that. That probably means you get to charge 25 bucks in the book world. You know, that might be the tops you're going to get for that book, but that is $25 versus, you know, selling it for 99 cents. There are two, there are two different feelings for those price points. So you do want to look at the value you're offering, the end promise of who's getting it, how much value are they going to get from it? And this is how you look at courses too, by the way, when you price your course, if you're pricing, you know how to draw a beautiful picture of a flower, your course is probably going to be $29 versus if you're Matt Pacini. Just as another example, because I got all these books right here today, and you're showing people how to buy apartment buildings and make a profit for yourself, but also make them better for the community so that you're improving the places people get to live. You're improving whole neighborhoods by your real estate investments. Well, your course is probably going to be a 900 or $1,000 course, even if they're the same size. Just because of that value proposition, you know what you're offering. What's the end result of this? So bigger numbers. But books are similar in that regard. That's why you might see a fiction book. It's a great read. It's $1.99 versus the nonfiction book. Might be priced at $9.99 or $20. Cool. All right, let's do some YouTube comment draws, shall we? And all right, our first participation prize. So what day is our next deep dive training? It's a two part question, by the way. What day is our next deep dive training? And are you already registered? Let's see who gets that right and says yes. And we can check to see if you're already registered. By the way, Angela could pop in and see if you are registered. So, you know, don't let karma get you. Okay, Mike's in the house. Hello. You can definitely see how thick Bab's book was. That's great. Kat said, I had no idea I was a whale. I read 250 to 300 books a year. Well, it's the best kind. You're a whale in the best kind of way. Kat. Sean. Hello. And honesty. I mean, that's great. Okay, so I think Sean was the first one. Oh, but wait, you got to get the date. So Saturday. What date? Okay, so that wasn't quite it. Cat. And not the right date. And Mike don't have the date and everybody's saying no until we get to Donald, who has the right date and is registered. Congratulations, Donald. You are the winner. So, Angela, what are our prizes today? I didn't check with you before we got on live, so we need to know what our prizes are. What are your choices? Self publish and succeed is always a choice, by the way. Of course. I have all these client books here and mine is over there. You can see it kind of in the corner, but it's under a bunch of stuff, so I'm not going to. And Creative Learning New York said I wanted to give Donald a chance to win. That was very nice of you. Thank you. But there's more. There's more chances to win. There's one more participation prize coming up. And now I'm going to pop over and do our YouTube commenting prizes. So Kat says, I can't believe I wrote the wrong date, Donald. It was meant to be Donald's day. Okay, so now I'm gonna go and so if you're New here. I know I saw Brenda and a couple other people look like they might be their first times here. So every Tuesday and Friday a new video comes out. Every other Tuesday it's live. So joining me like you are today. But regardless when a new video is out, when you comment that day you get entered to win our prizes. Normally our swag is mugs, journals, sometimes T shirts. We've got magnets. And always Self Publish and Succeed, my latest book. Okay, and so now I've collected all the comments from the last four videos and I'm going to head over to my random name picker and we have our first winner who is Tamara Bonnickson. I think that's a first time winner. So congratulations, Tamara. You will need to email team te a mook launchers.com with your mailing address and let us know if you want a copy of Self Publish and Succeed or or a mug a journal. So we've got the old school. We're going back to the original swag, my friends. So we have our no Boringbooks mug or our oh so soft journal. None of which I have handy to show you and Self Publish and Succeed. So that would be for you. Donald, let us know which one you would like to take home or have Angela send to you and then Tamara also let us know and let me get one more YouTube winner for us all. I'll take a sip while the random name picker is working. Bill Miller. Now, Bill, it's been a while so it might be time for a new journal. I think Bill has won everything there is to win. But if there's something you would like, let us know and we will send it to you. Pamela, right? I got your name right. Welcome. Great to see you here. And is Bill here today? I'm just looking. I don't know if I saw him come in. I don't think he said hello. So Bill, when you're watching the replay, let us know. Journal, mug or my book. Pretty sure you have all three. Let us know which one we can send you and email Angelaemooklaunchers.com okay, so heading back to our four P's. So we've done product, we've done price. Now let's get into place. Now, shouldn't surprise you that place is essentially distribution. But as far as a marketing mix goes, place is also really widely considered like how somebody finds you. So it's kind of mixing platform and place. It's kind of mixing promotion to a point. But that's where the mix comes in. What I will Give you today is to think beyond Amazon. I think a lot of authors really hone in. They get tunnel vision and all they're thinking is Amazon when it comes to distribution and discovery of your book. Think bookstores, think libraries. Heck, think your dentist's office. I did a podcast interview the other day, and they were asking me unconventional places that I've sold books. And I told them my dentist used to display my books. And as far as I know, my gym. Maybe not anymore because the ownership just changed. But for years, my CrossFit gym in Nanaimo, British Columbia, displayed the new Brand U and More Than Cash Flow and sold it. Every once in a while, they would send me some cash after they had sold a copy of my book. And so, like I said, the ownership just changed. So may not be on display anymore. But for years I was selling books at my gym. Could also be an office building or an office, a place of business, a travel agency. We've had clients that have displayed books in travel agencies. We had one that had it in a garden store because it was applicable. Conferences online, of course. So Goodreads, Bookbub, Lulu, like any kind of online storefront, could arguably be social media. Your website. Right. These are all places of distribution. When you start opening that beyond Amazon. Right. We've done videos recently on distributing through Amazon, distributing through Apple, distributing through Kobo for ebooks. You know, as far as Audible goes or audiobooks go, Audible is the most popular, but there's many other options. And again, library is really big. I just took my son. Side note, I just took my son to the Summerlin Library here in Las Vegas on Sunday. I think it's the first time I've taken him to a library, at least since he's been older. And he's now reading. He can read little. They call them Bob books. So he can read those all by himself now, which is really, really fun. And it was great because we went to the library and they had a whole shelf of Bob books. So he was grabbing all the books. But. But the library was really cool. Like they've got. They have all kinds of things. And they were actively promoting audiobooks. That was one thing they had in many, many places. They were really promoting that you could get audiobooks through their system. And so that's something that a lot of authors aren't. Aren't taking advantage of or doing any promotions. And this library in particular was doing a lot to really facilitate. I was mostly in the kids section, but there was lots of signage about audiobooks and, you know, how you can download and listen to audiobooks through their system and through your library membership. So distribution is so much more than Amazon. And as far as place goes today, that's what I want you to take home is thinking about all the places that you can be found by your reader that aren't Amazon. Because Amazon's the one everybody thinks about. And another one, a good example. Do I have it here? Yes, I do. So imagine that you've written this book. Play it like youe Mean it by Emile Pandolfi. Supercharge your playing and let your piano work for you. Where do you think he should be? Right. Music stores. If you're a music store, maybe you want to be displaying this for all those people who are aspiring professional pianists. If you sell pianos, maybe you want to have this as well. So there's lots of places, you know, thinking outside the box, just trying to see if there's anything else that jumps out at me to give you guys examples. Yeah, like I said, the gardening book. Just looking back at my shelf to see if I have any other ideas. There's. If you just think about anywhere that your reader might be shopping or hanging out, maybe there's a potential opportunity for you to display books and be discovered. Okay, promotion. So we've covered three of the four Ps. Now, if we were in a Kindle, this would be 75% done. Okay, so there's lots of ways promotion can apply to books in traditional marketing sense. This is messaging in the market. This is the marketing hook of your book and how it gets out there for the purposes of books. This really could be brand awareness. But when you're marketing your book, it's more author brand than book brand. I mean, if you've done any publicity or pr, it's very rare that you're leading with the book. You're usually leading with the author and their story and what they have to offer. And then the book is kind of at the back end of all of that as part of the credibility and maybe where some of the content that you're talking about is coming from. So book marketing is a little funny in that way. A lot of book marketing is actually author promotion and author branding and putting that brand into the world. Now, as far as I'm concerned, promotion is largely tactics. This is tactics and strategies. And to me, advertising in particular is something that you only. You only pay for ads for book marketing. If you're getting email addresses, reviews, or credit cards, you're selling those books. So. But promotion is much broader in this mix of scheme of things, this is running ads, publicity, ebook sales, finding partnerships, search engine marketing, direct emails, content marketing, social media marketing, influencer marketing, traditional media, direct mail. Essentially it's a really wide definition when it comes to the marketing mix. That it's anything that gets your book in front of readers is essentially promotion. And it's really anything that gets your message, excuse me, in front of readers and you mix it up. So when it comes, that's why they call it the marketing mix. So you can kind of see how this is fun to play with because none of these things are set in stone. Well, the product is kind of set in stone but you can still adjust certain things, right? You can still adjust your cover, you can address your description, you can address, you can adjust some of those elements, but most of the time your product is set and you're going to play with the other three things. So you're going to play with, for example, a 99 cent deal for your ebook will be playing with the price, promoting it on bargain booksy. And, and so you're changing the place that you're being found, you're changing the price that you're being sold at and you're running a paid promotion in order to do that. So you're playing with the other three elements and that's why it's a mix is because you mix it up to get exposure. And I'm trying to think of another example besides a 99 cent ebook, ebook sale. So it could also be when you do a, when you pay for a netgalley review or some other review service that is putting it in front of somebody for free but they're discovering you that way, they're hopefully writing a review and the price is zero. It could also be mixing it up. So one of the things I've talked about before is that with my real estate book I partnered with other real estate authors and I would, especially at conferences I would have my book and you know, my colleague's book together and it would be, that would actually be the product. So that's where I'd be, I'd be playing with the product a little bit in that it would be more than cashflow plus a book called the RRSP Secret. So you'd be buying both and they were being sold together as a package deal. And that was kind of the promotion, the place it was happening and being found was at this conference. I spoke at the conference, had a table at the back of the room where this was the offer. So that's one other Way that I've done it, conferences are a really great place to play with things. You may have a whole package where it's your book plus a workshop. You know, sign up for this, and it's. The entire. The entire offering of what your product is. Is slightly different. So that's why it's a mix, and that's why it's kind of a cool, different approach to bring into talking about book marketing. All right, final participation prize, and then we'll open it up to questions. First person to accurately recall one of the book titles I shared today. And, Dan, you cannot. You cannot pick your own book. Okay? Because that would just not be fair, would it? And while. While I'm waiting for that, I'll just kind of summarize this whole concept, because ultimately it comes back, first of all, to knowing your overall goal. So what are you doing? Why are you doing it? What are you hoping to achieve? Are you building your platform? Are you trying to sell books? Are you trying to sell a service or a product? Build an entire kind of ecosystem around a message. You got to understand your overall goal. You absolutely have to understand who your ideal reader is, what problem you're solving, and what message you want them to get from you over and over again. Hint, like hashtag no boring. Books or marketing must be built into the entire process of writing in order to create success for your book. Those are some of my core, fundamental messages. Then you want to understand where you're finding that reader and what it's. What it is you're offering when you do find them. And, of course, the price that you're. You're offering all of that at. And the value that is contained in that price. So. Okay, now not your average. Ari is writing a novel. Welcome. Okay. Sharon. Hello. Welcome here. All right, I think we have a winner. Let's see. I'm just checking. There was a talk about funeral homes here. Okay. Play it like you mean it. Cat. Got it. Way to go. Cat was paying attention. Dan, you could have picked somebody else's book, but play it like you mean it. That was right. Congratulations, Kat. So you are today's winner. So email Angelaemooklaunchers.com with your mailing address. Let her know whether you want the book, the mug, or the journal. All right. Do we have questions today, Angela? I'm just waiting. I see thoughts on payhip, but I don't. I need more context on that. It says payhip host your ebook. I haven't used payhip, actually, so I don't have a lot to offer. I prefer to talk about things I either have direct experience with or where I can give you a resource on it. I'm trying to think if I've heard of Payhip from Joanna Penn might be one that I heard talk about it on her podcast. I think the Creative Pen is her podcast and I'm trying to remember because I don't have experience with it and but I feel like I remember her talking about it. So I would check out her for that. Because we don't set our authors up on alternative to Amazon for publishing children's books. Again, I we don't publish children's books so I don't have a ton. I buy a ton. I can tell you I buy them from Amazon, but I also buy a ton of children's books at the farmers markets. So typically here in Las Vegas there's a Summerland market. There's also a market on Sundays. We've also done a lot of we've gone to a lot of different kind of events like there, there was a pumpkin patch, a corn maze, all of those kind of things. And there was a couple of children's books authors that were at those. And I'm a sucker for books. I'm also it's like one of those things where I don't think I can ever give my son too many books. Probably a hazard of my job. But I also just believe, you know, I'd rather buy him a thousand books than a thousand toys. So I will, you know, now we've got the library so we took 15 books home from the library the other day. We've been working our way through those. But. But yeah. So as far as myself I can tell you like getting that's where the unconventional things can really work for you. Because I have spent hundreds of dollars at farmers markets buying stacks of books and especially these events where I can meet the author and they can talk to my son. I will buy their books and then it's memorable for my son. So those things are I think really great opportunities. But that's in, you know, that's in person stuff online. I think a lot of that's where I usually recommend people check out Keith Wheeler books. He has some really great content on children's books in particular. He's done them self published as well as had some picked up by traditional publishers. So he's got some really great content on his YouTube channel and his website. That's usually where I send children's book authors for support. If self publishing through KDP can Bowker ISBN be used? Yes, we always use ISBN for upload to KDP and then you're uploading to Ingram with the same ISBN for your print and then same ISBN for your eBook. We always do that. We don't ever use the free ISBN. That's because it's not an ISBN really. But we don't use the free Amazon numbers. We always get our authors to get them from Bowker and then that's what we use for upload. What other online platforms are there aside from Amazon and Apple? Is Google Books a good place to consider? We've had a lot of fights with Google Books so I don't tend to talk about it very much. Their upload has been a real pain and I'm actually not currently up to date on kind of how it's working. We usually and I was telling somebody else this as much as I just did that video on Apple Books and I love Apple Books because they don't have the same price sensitivities that Amazon does. We've got one client whose book is listed at Walmart. Walmart has priced it low and it's impacting Amazon because Amazon has this price matching or even price beating strategy. And so we're having to remove Walmart as the list as a listing in order to get Amazon price back to where it's supposed to be and do that. So it's a real pain in the butt. But Apple Books doesn't have that same price matching strategy and Apple buyers tend to be less price sensitive. So I. There's a lot of things I like about Apple Books. That said, uploading to Apple is a royal pain in the patootie. So we rarely upload direct to Apple. We use Draft 2 Digital to as, which is an aggregator to get access to Apple Books. It doesn't give you all the promotional features though. So there are arguments for doing it direct. But you have to download this extra producer thing and it was creating that video. I started to shoot the screen video for it and it was taking me so long that I got Jacqueline, our production manager to shoot the B roll versus when I did it for Kobo. It was no problem. It was really easy. I could do that. But generally speaking I would say use an aggregator. You know, you can do some things, you can get fancy and try to upload to all these places yourself. But at a certain point I think you're better off to just go through an aggregator like Draft 2 Digital to get access to all the places including libraries for ebooks. Let's see, we've got A vote for buying kids books. And I think that's it. So you guys are going easy on me, which is nice because I still have a little bit of ready residual challenges from my strep throat. All the fun things, all those fun you get when you have a kid in school. Right. There was one question I missed. Okay, hold on. I don't know where it was. Let me go back. What question did I miss? Oh, here we go. Any recommendations on interacting with the local chamber of commerce around the boat book? We are members. Yeah, Any group that you're an association of, I think it's worth talking to the chair or, you know, if they have like a member relations or however it goes. I'm not in Chamber of commerce, so I'm not quite familiar with the structure, but I've had other clients who've actually been able to give presentations at their local Chamber of commerce. So I think that's great. Like you want to go in and present it as I'm sure you will, in terms of the value you can offer the audience, not as I'm trying to promote my book. But you know, you can say, look, I've got this new book out and here's. Here's how I think me giving a talk or even, you know, some tips from this or a sheet, like an info sheet or something. You can even look at what maybe they've done in the past or what they have. As far as content pieces. I know a lot of the Chamber of commerce, they have. They usually have a presentation or a presenter at most of their meetings. So that might be a way to go in. So. But whenever you're pursuing those things, always think about the value that you can offer that will be useful to their membership, that will make them look good, that will make them seem like a valuable organization and present that or even ask questions like, hey, when you guys are looking for presenters, what are you guys looking for? Like, what kind of topics do you want to have? Have you not had? You know, that's usually. I usually kind of lead with those kind of discussions first and then try to figure out how I can provide value afterwards. But I think it's a great place. Any group, any association you're a part of. We even had a client who his book was about kind of exercise in your senior years and he was part of a rowing association and he was able to kind of tie the two of those things together and get a little bit of, you know, provide value for his rowing member, the rowing members, but also, you know, get a little bit of exposure for his book, too. Okay. I think we did it all. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me. So remember Deep Dive on April? Now I almost said 19th cat on April 16, you can register@booklaunchers.com deep dive. Join the book reviewer community if you have not already, and we'll see you back here in two weeks, same time, same place. All right. Thank you. Take. You got, you got this. Matt. I'm just reading the comments. All right, Take care. By.