Using Data to Make Your Book Stand Out in the Marketplace

Foreign.

Thank you so much for joining us today. I am Sarah Bean, marketing manager here at Book Launchers. And as always, we have Angela with us, our head of operations, very familiar to our YouTube crowd. And we are super excited today because we are talking some big ideas today. I'm. I'm actually really excited to dive in because this is a topic I know a ton about. I'm really excited to learn. We have Dr. Elena Schlockta with us today. Nice to have you here. Thank you so much, Elena.

Thank you, Sarah and Angela. And Sarah, you said my last name beautifully.

I can't believe that.

Thank you so much.

I had to write it out phonetically to be able to do that. So I'm really. Thank you very much. I'm glad to hear that. So, you know, I think what we're kind of kicking off with today, just to give everybody a little bit of preview, is that sales numbers are one major data point for authors. Right. Like, how well is your book performing? It's something that's measurable, something you can track over time, and it's something that you can generally see changing based on efforts. Right. So getting your book out there. But there are other ways to measure how your book is doing and other ways to use data throughout the entire process. And the good news is that you don't need a big team or a publisher behind you to help you track that information. And today's guest, Elena, literally wrote the book on measuring results when you're short on resources, like from a big publisher. So we've got Dr. Alena. She's an academic turned entrepreneur, founder of By Design Development Solutions, and she helps create these assessment tools for experts, coaches, consultants, leaders, authors that measure the impact of what they're investing into their training. And so, Elena, I'm actually going to let you take it away to give us a little background into what you do, what it means to be a measurement architect, which is possibly the coolest job title I've ever heard. So please fill us in a little bit about what you do. But while you are doing that, I would love for everybody to throw into the chat, say hello, say where you're coming in from. Don't forget, we give our brave prizes for engagement here. So we're not above bribery. So go ahead and drop those in the chat and say hello. Now, Elena, please fill us in on kind of what you do in your background.

Well, thank you, Sarah. So it's a simple thing. I am obsessed with data. I was an athlete in high school, and in college, I was A professional public speaker and speech and debater. And data was the life of blood, of what made me a better athlete, got me a college scholarship. And ultimately, I continued on in the world of being obsessed with data by becoming a researcher. I think data is our greatest asset. And so what I do for a living is I help people figure out how they can use original data to level up their business. That can be including that data in a book that they write. It could be using data to help close sales calls in a shorter amount of time. It could be figuring out what's a proprietary metric in the world of how you serve people that differentiates your services, your point of view. So really, data, I believe, is the lifeblood of doing things better and having a direction for how do we know where to improve, what to invest. And so, at the end of the day, I love data because I love knowing what works and what doesn't as quickly as possible. And data doesn't lie.

Oh, that's fascinating. I mean, when you talk about going into research specifically, I mean, that is a really broad term. It can apply to a lot of different industries. Can you break down a little bit about some of your expertise?

Yeah. So I fell in love with teaching and thought, oh, I'm going to become a teacher. And I taught in all kinds of places, starting with teaching English as a foreign language in Mexico. Then I taught community based health back here in the States, taught as a professor, taught as an adjunct. And all through it all, I realized that having really rich feedback is super important. And so in my doctorate program, I really wanted to build the skills of being able to evaluate growth and change in people's behavior. Because when we are teaching people, we usually are teaching them for a reason. And going back to my very first job out of college, teaching English as a foreign language, we wanted people to be able to get promotions, keep their jobs because they spoke English well enough to be able to serve in whatever industry that they were in. And all the way fast forward, I worked for many years in the nonprofit and the corporate learning arena, where we are teaching people things that they can perform better on the job. And so to understand what are the problems we're trying to solve, how are we helping people to perform better on the job? What do we expect will change? And so all of that at the end of the day, is about doing research, measuring the right things, and understanding what data is the best indicator. So all of that is to say, I do research in the world of human behavior and education. And so clients are thought leaders Industry experts or people that have amassed a huge amount of intellectual property and they're genuinely using that to make a difference in the world through teaching, through consulting, optimizing businesses. And so I've continued to stay in that realm of how do we help the world be a better place? How do we help people change by using the right data measurement methodologies and ultimately research to just continue doing more of what works and getting rid of the things that don't.

Oh, that's fascinating. It's such an interesting world. It's an. There is this whole subsect of marketing that just revolves 100% around data, you know, market research and all of that. My, you know, not to get too, too personal, but my husband is the director of sales for Market Research Co. And so it's always fascinating to me to see the, not only the people that go to him to help gather this data and help run these studies and things, but what they do with that data afterwards is really what's fascinating. So explain a little bit about how you work with authors in particular and how they could be using, potentially be using data more efficiently.

So I think authors are a common denominator in my client base. So authors are either they wrote a book and because they wrote a book, now they're teaching, they're doing keynote speeches, they're doing breakout workshops at big conferences. And so maybe they wrote a book based upon some rich experience that they have and then they want to use the intellectual property to deliver that message in other ways that also generate income. The reverse is also true. Sometimes people will come to me and they've been doing work in a really niche area, so they've built expertise. One of my favorite clients does work in the minimum viable manager. So he has this whole framework based on years of experience of like, what does it take for someone to be a manager in the minimum viable way and how can we put into people the training, the support, the mentorship, the information to get them to be a minimum viable manager as quickly as possible. Been training and he's developed these frameworks that he speaks on at conferences and now he's writing a book. So I think a book is always at the forefront. Whether I know I'm going to write a book one day and I'm gathering information, experiences, I'm using conversations with my clients or with the people that I serve to one day put them into a body of work that can help people, or they have the book and they want to do something meaningful with it. And so it's interesting over the last couple of years that I've been in business, I never expected that I would say I work with authors. And yet being an author is part of the journey of most entrepreneurs, most consultants, because they do amass this really rich body of work around a niche perspective. It just makes sense that they would put it into a thoughtful manuscript that will help others in some important way.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I. We've had quite a few authors who have spent some time really like they know they want to write on a certain subject, but then they need to do that interesting research that's either going to back it up or perhaps it's going to dispel it or it's going to. Essentially they're looking for the stats and the research and every. The evidence to back it up. And if it's not there, then they have to go get it, they have to go make it happen. So. Yeah, yeah. So explain a little bit about your process when you work with a new client and let's assume that it's an author. Like what are some of the things that you sit down and really work with them on?

Yeah. So assuming that somebody already has a book. I think the word author is interesting to me because I considered myself an author before I formally published a book because I was writing all the time. When you think about authorship, I think about somebody who is using writing as a consistent method to put a message out in the world. Maybe it's a blog, Maybe it's a LinkedIn newsletter, or maybe it's an ebook or something that's not quite to the formal book with a traditional publisher or whatnot. So what I think about authors is that they have a point of view and they've developed that by either being in the trenches as an entrepreneur and figuring things out, or they've been in the trenches working for corporate or government or nonprofit and they have this rich experience and they have seen patterns in what works and what doesn't, in whatever it is that they're an expert in. There was a gentleman that I talked to, I didn't get a chance to work with him, but he was an oil and gas. And if you think about like all the different places that somebody could have expertise in the world, it's literally infinite oil and gas education. You know, Brene Brown is somebody who I love and adore and she talks about vulnerability. There are people that are happiness experts and then of course there's all the people who are sales, marketing and all the business expertise that's out there. And so authors have A unique point of view and their area of expertise, and they write about it regularly. And so how I work with people ultimately is making sure that they have clarity. At some point you see enough patterns in just the work that you're doing on a daily annual basis, you see enough patterns to say, I see something here that I think I could productize, I could find framework because it helps other people understand how to overcome a challenge or how to create something new. And so I think of authors as masters of pattern and observations and pattern seeking. And so they might work with me to fine tune those patterns. So you made a great comparison. Research. We either need to do the research and see what else is in the world that might validate our ideas, or go out and interview people or do observations, or maybe we're doing a little bit of both where somebody else's work validates some ideas we have about our point of view and our frameworks. But then we have to go and do our own original research. So a lot of times that comes in the form of an assessment. So you mentioned in that bio that you read that I help people build assessment tools. Sometimes the people I work with, they already have assessment tools. In fact, one of my clients created a validated tool. He knew early on in his business that he wanted to have that validated assessment because the data would be more credible. And he has 15 years of data in his unique area of expertise, doing consulting and training. And we encountered each other at a conference and he basically shared, I have all this data, I know it's gold, but I have no idea what to do with it.

What to do with it. Right. Like how do you position it? How do you turn it to something that is actually a decent product that is going to help expand your brand.

Exactly. So when you think about, all right, what do authors have in common? They have unique expertise, they've probably frameworked it, or at minimum they see some patterns and they either want to start collecting data really intentionally to be able to fine tune their ideas, to put it in a book, or to put it in a course or some kind of consulting offering, or they've got the data and they need help figuring out what to do with it. And so I do the assessment work where we put build an assessment based upon the frameworks that authors have already been noodling on for probably years. Right. And. Or we work on what's the data ecosystem that you already have from the years you've either been in business or you've been doing your service or doing your keynote Speech or whatever it is that you're up to in the world. How do we harness that data, clean it up and organize it? And what are all the ways that we could use that data to help you increase your revenue or just expand how you show up in the world? Because the more that people understand your point of view, the more that people see you as different from your competitors. Of course, then, as you know, Sarah, as a marketing person, we put content out in the world because we want people to know that we exist for one, two, we have a differentiated point of view. We want people to know what that point of view is. And ultimately there's some kind of value in the content that we're putting out there that can help people. And so there's a lot of ways that we can use that data as a marketing tool. Use data to set up some sales systems to help you close deals more quickly. There's a million things we can do. And so figuring out what are the low hanging fruit with the data I already have to help me expand my revenue opportunities that ultimately will become part of when I work with someone. We will get to that place once they've got some data, they'll need help knowing what to do with it. Yeah.

So, and that, and that sort of like sets up sort of, you know, some of my curiosities around this, which is. So you're 100% right. I mean, authors have, you know, most of the time when they are doing something because they have something that differentiates them from everyone else, that talking about whatever a topic is, whatever that topic is in any field, it's because they're presenting a new opinion, new approach, new perspective to something that already exists. So when you have, you know, for argument's sake, in this case, we could say experts, coaches, authors, consultants. I mean, it's all kind of the, you know, we're all referring to the same.

Yeah, I can imagine that.

I have quite a few people that are watching that are probably like, oh, okay, like I have expertise, but I don't know if I have data. What do you, how do they, can they get started? What should they be tracking? Like, what does that look like? When they're kind of just going in and out with their day writing, as always, doing their articles and content, how can they recognize the data they already have in their arsenal?

Yeah. So I love this question. Thank you for asking it. Because I was writing down like the things I wanted to make sure to talk about and to share with everyone.

I did. It was literally, I was like, how do we get some started on this? Yeah.

So you set me up for perfect success. Thank you. So where we want to begin is in answering the question, what is data? Yeah, I know it sounds ridiculous, but I'm asking everyone to think for a moment about, okay, really, what is data? And I think that's the important thing. So just for the sake of having a little fun with you, Sarah, how would you define data?

I would say the data is probably facts gathered. Like, it's just facts that are gathered, whether it's numbers or it's empirical data or, you know, anything else. It's. You are looking at a certain. You're looking at information through a certain lens and you're pulling facts out of it. Yeah, that could be very simplistic definition. I was trying to think of one that would, like. I was like, I don't know, data points on a graph or their statistics or their numbers, but in reality, it's just facts.

So this is what's really interesting is that data is not information, and data is not guaranteed to be a fact. Okay, it could be a facts, but data are simply a series of artifacts that we collect. And in of themselves, they are often meaningless. Okay, we make meaning out of data through analysis, through research questions, through hypotheses and logic models. So data, if we just take a step back for a moment, data are things like observations, words, numbers, symbols, conversations, photos, videos. So data is simply a collection of artifacts that we are putting together for some purpose, and it's the analysis of those things that make it information or make it meaningful. And so I've asked this question before, and don't worry, you're not alone. Many people are like, oh, it's a collection of facts and information, and that's actually not true. Data in its raw format is actually meaningless. We give it meaning. And so that's what makes data so interesting. From, like, the consultant, the coach, the entrepreneur. Every single one of us has unique experiences. We, because of the job that we have or had, because of the work that we do, we are having conversations with people on a regular basis. Those conversations are data artifacts. So, for example, the clients that I work with, they sell training, coaching, consulting, and they are selling their unique point of view on, like, here's how we reduce drama. Here's how we solve conflict. Here's how we help people be better communicators. Every single time my clients are talking with a prospective client, they're gathering data. What are their challenges? What are their goals? What are the unique dynamics that are happening in their Organization at this time, those conversations, we can harness that data and we can put it in some kind of data collection system that allows us to see themes, trends that we can take advantage of, whether it enables us to write about a trend that's happening, which is super interesting. I mean, the world right now is kind of crazy.

Like, oh, my gosh.

Yeah, just a really wild time. And I know that, you know, there's probably talk to somebody who's 85 and they tell you about the wild times, you know, of their past. But we are in a really interesting time, and politically, economically, all the things. And so how interesting if you were talking to your prospective clients or your audience. I mean, a lot of people have communities, they have labs, they have meetup groups. And so you're constantly talking with people around a similar topic or challenge or opportunity that's of interest. And so that's data. Every conversation you have, when you situate that at a point in time. And let's say you have a meetup group, I have one myself, so I'm using that as an example. Yeah, I've had a meetup group for two years. We all get together because we care about impact, making a difference and being able to make a measurable impact. And of course, we nerd out on how to use data, how to overcome challenges, and how to tell stories with data. All the things. I have all of those conversations recorded. Sorry, guys. I do it. I do it anonymously. Right? But all of that data allows me to then look back at specific times. I mean, I wish I had my meetup group during COVID but alas, I didn't start it until after. But it's so interesting to be able to compare people's challenges, their goals, the dynamics that they're navigating as we look at space and time and how that tells an interesting story, how it helps us to identify opportunities to make a difference or address a common challenge. Each and every one of us is collecting unique data artifacts just because of who we are and what we do every single day. My call to action is just don't think about data as fact or information, because then I think we might start dismissing the data that we have unique access to all the time. And so just because data, Just because you are having unique conversations doesn't mean they're nuanced or anecdotal. It's about volume. If you are talking to prospective clients five times a day and you're doing that five days a week times however many days you work in a year, that's a lot of really unique data. And so if you think about data being meaningless and then we want to make it meaningful, it's about having enough of a data set to identify patterns, themes, trends, even outliers. Like, wow, how interesting would it be if we saw this pattern? And then all of a sudden we start seeing it change? And it's wildly different what people are saying than they had been saying. And these are really interesting opportunities for us to go, ooh, I'm going to write about that. I'm going to talk about that. I'm going to research myself. I'm going to go talk to my group of other nerds. For me, I have a group of data nerds that I will be like, hey, y', all, what are you seeing? How are you feeling about this? And so, yeah, I don't want people to dismiss the unique data that they are collecting just because of who they are and what they're doing. But our data is only meaningful if we have enough of it to see true patterns and themes. I mean, this is Research 101. Data needs to be a meaningful number of artifacts. And so if you're thinking about doing interviews, right. If we're going to interview people from a target population to understand something, whatever they're trying to accomplish, a core challenge, something of interest, whatnot, we need to make sure that our data is a representative sample size of the target population that we're interested in. And so that allows us to generalize or to basically say, ooh, these themes from this group that I've been talking to might also apply to this larger group of people that also are experiencing that thing. Yeah, Anyway, I could clearly go on forever.

No, it's interesting. And I want to make sure that I'm sort of like, absorbing it the right way. I mean, some of the things that popped up for me when you were talking about this is some examples that we see on our side. Obviously, you know, here at Book Launchers, we'll do like keyword and category research for clients.

Right.

So this is, you know, the metadata. It's the in the weeds, behind the scenes stuff. But it can be really valuable. You mentioned, you know, sort of like conversations and things and your communities before and after Covid. And what stuck out to me was, was something we started to note right around Covid time was we would do research for clients, and then we would do it at a certain point of time, and then Covid hit and we would do that exact same research. You know, this is like 6 months post Covid and The keywords, the things that we found were relevant six months ago were no longer relevant. That wasn't what people were searching for. It wasn't what people were talking about. So now it was really interesting to see, okay, what impact, what people are searching for, what impacts the viability of these keywords. And it was what's happening in the world. The other thing that kind of came up for me was I was thinking about in terms of, you know, conversations, trends, patterns. So I live in an area in Michigan, and, you know, I have young kids that are in school, right. And I have a conversation with a parent, and maybe one person brings up a topic, you know, something that happened in the community that everybody's up in arms about. You know, just having that conversation with one person probably isn't enough to give me, like, oh, this is a big topic. But if I have a conversation with 10 people and six to seven out of those 10 people bring this topic up, then I can pretty much assume this is something that people are talking about and are thinking about, and that might be something I want to focus on. Kind of have the flow of it.

A little bit there.

Like, again, my favorite thing to do is kind of take these concepts and like, boil them down into the most simplistic views that I can understand them.

Yeah, but.

Yeah. Is that kind of what you're talking about there?

Yeah, it's that we, each and every one of us, because of, you know, are we a parent? Where do we live? What kind of work do we do? We have access to data artifacts. And if you think about a data artifact, I mean, it's like, what's the temperature? Is it sunny? Is it rainy? How clean or dirty are my windows? Like, we're just like surround and then think about driving, right? How many data artifacts are passing through our brains? Sounds, sights? What's going on? Are there cops around? Should I slow down? Can I speed up to that light? Right. There's all these data artifacts that we're just being inundated by. And our brain is doing its best job to filter out, like, what do we need and what we don't. And so I like to remind people that the data artifacts that are around us, the things that we often forget are what are our unique observations? What are our unique conversations? If you are somebody that's doing SEO or keyword searches, you can see what are some of the trends and what people are searching for. That's really unique insight. And so anyone who wants to. To write and they're feeling stuck or stopped about like what should I write about? Where do I begin? Or how do I make my message more meaningful? Think about all of the unique data artifacts that you have access to that most other people don't. And that's what makes it interesting, is like you are a person that has its own unique dynamics, right? Just like the filter through which you look at the world and then what's coming at you just because of who you are and what you do every day. Right? That perspective and all the artifacts, facts that you have coming at you, if you collect them strategically. And then you can start to notice patterns and the things that you're observing or the things that you're hearing in conversation, that becomes really rich data that you can do something with. And if you want to be even more intentional, you can just double down like you suggested. Oh, I heard 10 people say this in the last week. Let me go intentionally talk to some more people. Maybe in my Facebook group for parents that maybe is a broader all parents and we all maybe have children of the same age. That's our target population. But instead of like talking to parents at my local school that I've heard this trend, let's reach out to people on Facebook who are all over the country and see if this trend is resonating. So it's about adding a pattern and then being a little more intentional in how we get more data to validate. Is this a pattern unique to this area, to this time and place, or is this actually showing up for people in a much bigger way and then what do we do about it? So it's just kind of fine tuning that antenna, if you will, around what are you paying attention to, what patterns are you observing? And can you go validate those patterns and do more research on them on your own to just sharpen that perspective and then share it with people and see what comes, comes about, comes from it.

Yeah, I want to dive more into that and particularly about how authors can use this information. But, but we're going to take a two second pause to bring Angela back up here and ideally we can start to give away some prizes. So Angela, what do we have today? She's our very own Vanna. Our Vanna, Angela.

Except I don't have anything to show you off on the side.

I can show you things.

I have books in the other room.

We have my author launch kit shirt. You can use that as a. Yeah.

We might have other, a couple, a few sizes of those left. We don't have very many left, but that is our long sleeved one. We have our oh so Soft journal, our hashtag no boring books mug. We have copies of Self Publish and Succeed. Self Promote and Succeed. I have a few other books. I might have some of Nick Hutchison's books. I might have a small handful left of Dale Roberts books. There's definitely some options and other options. I'm not mentioning options that Sarah has. So there are many, many things to choose from. So do you want me to use the giveaway tool, Sarah? This will pull anyone who's commented so far.

Yeah, please. Let's use the data tool first and then we might do another one in a little bit. I got a hashtag idea. So we'll do that one in a little while. You know, in the meantime, we do have some other books. I'm trying to see what I have on hand. That would be good. I have some more of Ed McClellan's the Second Half Playbook on retirement planning, which is phenomenal. We've got, oh, Judy Holler's book, USA Today bestseller, just came out last month. This book is incredible. Look at all of that beauty. So we've got lots here. Yeah, it's a gorgeous book. I've got basically anything that you look up on noboringbooks.com I've got it all right next to me. So, yeah, Angela, go for it.

All right, awesome. And while I'm doing this, if you guys haven't yet said hello, please do so now and please post your questions. You know, I'm sure a lot of people are. You know, I don't know that this is a topic that we've covered before, so your brains might still be reeling from all this.

Yeah.

Please do post it in the chat so that we can make sure to get it answered within the time frame. So, yeah, let me share screen and we will get this going.

I do see an interesting question from Kevin, so I'm not sure if we want to chat about that once we give away.

Yes, I flagged that because I saw that too. Yes, absolutely. Okay, let's see who this first winner is.

New names in here today. I know. I love it. Welcome, guys. Yay.

Awesome. I. I don't know that you've been a winner before, so congrats. That's very exciting. I think you are in NYC is what you said.

Yeah.

So please email me directly at team T A M book launchers.com let me know which of our prices you'd like. And of course, I will need your mailing address, but yay, congrats. I don't think you've ever won before.

If you haven't, congrats. So, yeah, that's great. I mean, yeah, you can pick from journals, mugs, books. What else is. What's the other swag?

I'm sorry. Yay.

Love that.

Yeah.

Why don't we go ahead and bring up Kevin's comment because I think it's one that many people are probably thinking themselves.

Yeah, absolutely. So he said, my challenge is not in the data researching, it's in knowing what data is the right data to be looking at.

Great point. Yeah. So I think it's interesting, Kevin, that you talk about. I'm not. You're probably great at asking questions and listening, which is, you know, the fundamental skill set that we have to have to be a good researcher is just know what questions to ask and then shut up and listen and make sure we're capturing what people are saying in a way that we can look back at. But of course, technology helps us do that these days. So much easier. For me, it all begins with the right questions. So oftentimes we're not so clear on what we want to do with the data and therefore we ask all these questions and we're left with a mountain of data that feels insanely overwhelming. In fact, a good example is a great friend of mine. He did a course, his very first course, on helping people look and sound good on camera. And it was, of course, because he knows me, he did a 10 question survey to try and get some feedback, to understand, like, what did people get out of the program? Was it a good investment? And he asked these 10 questions and he got 100% of people to respond. And when he looked at the data, it was, what's the math on that? A thousand Ls of data. And I looked at his questions and I said, dan, these questions really aren't that useful. In the end, it was difficult for him to look at the right data because the questions that he was asking weren't actually written with the end in mind. Like, what am I analyzing? What's the pattern I'm looking for? And so I like to think, Kevin, about a hypothesis being, again, sort of a Research 101. We should have some kind of hypothesis that we're testing when we collect data. Like going back to my buddy Dan, he was simply curious, did people get what they expected out of their investment in the program? Was it a good use of their time and money? Was there a return and what was that return for people? And so that's all Dan wanted to know. It was a hypothesis. Did people get what they expected or more out of their investment in the program? And his questions just didn't give that insight. And so I encourage everyone, when we start collecting data, especially if it's original data, what's the hypothesis that you're testing? What question are you trying to answer by going and doing that research? And that should make it really clear for you what to look for in your data set. How do I. How do I look at the data and answer my question? And so, Kevin, I hope that's helpful for you. But, yeah, I find that most people get overwhelmed with data and figuring out what should I look at, because they didn't start with a hypothesis and they didn't ask the right questions.

So interesting, because I think about it in terms of marketing and branding and how they're expanding their brand. And so for me, it would be like, okay, I just ran this course. Now I want to potentially use those responses to be able to bring in a new cohort of people with testimonials, or I want to use what people thought of that course to develop my next course or to use that as the framework for what my book is going to be. One of the. What we're calling today is using data to make your book stand out, which I think is. Is really valuable because we talk all the time about how, you know, you have to do certain things in order to ensure that your book stands out in the marketplace. But let's. Let's put this into the context of an author who is, you know, has collected years of experiences, years of, you know, data artifacts and points. They're getting ready. They know they need to write a book.

Like.

Like, how can they use data through your perspective to really make the book stand out?

The thing that. There's two questions that somebody asked me when I was writing my book that I'll never forget. Who is your audience, and how are you going to help them through this book? And then the second thing was, what do you want this book to do for you? Which was a question that actually came when I was almost finished writing the book. And I think the answers to those questions help me and likely will help you figure out, how do I use data as I'm writing the book? So if I'm writing a book that's genuinely supposed to help people, well, who are those people? Because I think whether I'm picking up a fiction book or a nonfiction book, I kind of want to know first and foremost as a reader is this book for me. So the clarity on who are you Writing it for. And then even more specifically, I'm writing this book for entrepreneurs who have their very first business and they're trying to get beyond their first 6k in revenue, very clear. So that I know, yes, this book is for me, then this is a no brainer. But then how do you use your data to establish credibility? And so sometimes that's just talking about, I've seen people incorporate clients, not testimonials, but like, hey, I worked with this particular organization and this is what I did and these were the outcomes. And sprinkling those experiences throughout your book gives you credibility. And the without, without bragging like this is, this was the problem, this is how we helped people. And enabling the pattern of I help people, I can help you. And so I think some of those stories that we sprinkle into our writing where they're very outcome focused and we talk about, here's the outcome that we deliver for our very specific target audience who has this problem that I think when I reflect back on not only writing the book, but marketing it. I have a newsletter, I have, you know, LinkedIn content. I go to very specific conferences and I'll just say from the data, the number one place that I sell my book, I sell out at conferences. And I've been. So for me, speaking to people is the number one way that gets them interested in my book. But I'm speaking to my target audience about the problems that they have and I'm giving them insights that will help them achieve whatever outcome they desire. So this is kind of, it's kind of silly. This is sort of 101. But I also think that sometimes we forget about that level of specific specificity. And so you've heard this said by a million and one people and more like if we're trying to write something or offer a service that's for anyone, then it's really for no one.

Right? Yeah.

So it's that same kind of principle. How do we use data, our experiences and patterns that we've observed for the people that we can help and how do we incorporate that not only in the book, but also in the way that we market at the book? And I love, love, love going to conferences and I'm speaking about the work that I do, but I also am collecting data at the events that I speak at and then I write about it. So it's this really nice circle of I collect original data through my community, through my speaking engagements, I look at patterns because I'm collecting that data every single year. And now I speak at the same conferences year over year. So I can say, here are the challenges that people are experiencing from this conference. Here's how it compared to last year's conference. I write about the observations and the trends. I could write about all of that stuff in my next book. I'm collecting data on a target audience that I know I can help and serve. And I'm always looking to understand what are their challenges, what are the things that keep them up at night. And I'm just like a keen observer and researcher of my target audience so that I can better serve them through my writing, speaking. And that's data collection.

I love that. It's funny, I think you and I actually approach a lot of this with authors the same way. We just use different vernacular for it. Like you call it data collection and artifacts and all of these things. And I call it, you know, sort of your story. Like how you got to where you are is what's going to differentiate you. You know, we have authors that a lot of times we have a lot of authors that come in and are like, oh, this is my second career. I'm, you know, who am I? I'm not a PhD in this, but here's my laundry list of experiences that make me that expert. And I'm like, okay, we'll lean into those. That is what's going to set you apart, you know, credibility wise. So I tell this story all the time, but we had an author a few years ago who was working primarily with dogs. Like her book was a dog training book, but she was like, this isn't my full time job, but I have a very unique approach. And it turned out she was a professor and worked, I think specifically like social sciences, sociology. And I'm like, well, your approach to understanding how humans behave and how we interact in our relationships directly impacts your view on training dogs. Like, that is data that she had that nobody else has. Yeah, that sets her apart in the field. So. Okay, I'm picking up what you're putting down there. I got it.

I wanted to share one super quick example because it's so random and very cool. And then the, the woman who.

Yeah, we'll get her questions, we'll get to it.

I want to get there too. Okay, so here's like a super simple example that I think hopefully open up your creative and critical thinking about how you can collect data for yourself. So I do a networking group in my local community and I met a woman who all she does is she is the person that pairs senior citizens who are looking for senior housing. So think of it like apartment finding, but for seniors. And so she has contracts with all these different senior living facilities. And it expands the gamut from places that, you know are, for fun, 55 and older, and they have all these amenities. And it's just, you know, a community of people who are all the same age that want to live specific types of care that are needed later in life. And she is the one that is having conversations with seniors, Seniors, loosely. People from the age of 50 all the way to maybe needing hospice care later in life. She's having these original conversations with people. What do they need? What's important to them, what's important to their family, what amenities are essential, what medical services are essential. And you would hire a market research company and you would pay a ton of money just to have the conversations that this woman is your contract. And say, would you like a report based upon the hundred people that I talk to every year who are looking for their options? Would you like me to give you a report on what are the trends that are coming up this year?

Yeah. What are the biggest requests? What are the. What is the priority order?

What is that for you? What conversations are you having? Uniquely, that gives you insight that maybe nobody else is having. Maybe it's unique to your community, it's unique to your field. Every single one of us is having those kinds of conversations, collecting that kind of data. It's just about how do I collect it and strategically store it so that it becomes usable, like in this example, to create a report that I can sell for an extra twelve hundred dollars with my annual contract. Right. So, yeah. What is that for you is, I think, the opportunity after this conversation.

Now I'm thinking about it because I literally live my life on zoom, talking to authors all day, every day.

Gold mountain of data.

Yeah, absolutely. I do want to get to our question. Let's go ahead and throw that up. Okay. So I like Elena's question, consistently asked, who is my book audience? I'm realizing those who are drawn to it are not who I originally intended. Is that typical?

So I would love Sarah to know your thoughts and I'll share my own experience. But I feel like we could both add some value in answering this question.

I mean, I think this is something that does happen quite often. This is something that will come up because there are. You could be riding towards one specific audience and then realize it has this whole other appeal to an audience never considered. One of our famous examples is we had an author, Pat Watson, a few years ago. He was a locksmith, lock smith and lock picking expert. Right. So he wrote this very tactical book on lock picking, and it was really, really valuable. He was aiming at specifically at first responders, EMTs, paramedics, people that need to get into locked spaces in order to save a life. That was what he wrote the book for. Well, as we were marketing the book, there was this whole subsection of true crime fans that devoured the book because it enabled them to look at what they were doing and be able to put context into how things happen. And so it was fascinating because we would get these requests from these true crime podcasters and different networking groups and things. And that was never an audience that we had intended for it, but it ended up being a big seller for them. So I think it's not unusual for it to happen. The question then becomes, how do you build upon that? How do you utilize it? How do you go ahead and continue to market your book to dual audiences? Which can be a little bit trickier. So, Elena, I'd love to hear your take on this.

Yeah. And I can say that I've had a sort of similar experience. So the publisher of my book, Measurement and Evaluation on a Shoestring, which, by the way, I didn't choose the title, the publisher invited me to write the book. They were looking for a fresh face of measurement. So how could I say no to that opportunity?

You're the face of measurement.

I love it. I'm the young face of measurement. Measurement and evaluation books out on the market. There are a bunch of older people, like lots of gray hair, which I do have my fair share of gray hair in any event. So audiences, I think it's an interesting challenge because while we want to be specific, because the more specific we are, the better story that we can tell, the better data that we think about collecting and then looking for themes and patterns, whether it's an interview question or observations that we're making, whatever. But I also think that there can genuinely be multiple audiences. And so for me personally, this idea of measurement and evaluation with limited resources, I mean, who comes to mind for you? HR professionals, learning and development teams, nonprofit organizations, you know, government organizations that are working with really limited resources, doing community based education, even higher ed. There's so many different audiences that might resonate with. We need to be evaluating if what we're doing is working, but we also don't have an unlimited amount of money and time to do that. So my approach was just having a conversation with people as I wrote the book and giving a sort of Flexible, fluid way in which what I'm suggesting could be applicable to a variety of audiences. And so I knew in advance that while my publisher was a talent and learning and development publisher, they're the biggest publisher in that space. I realized that when I was going to market the book and speak about the book, and I thought about all the clients I had worked with and the spaces I had worked, I knew it wasn't going to be just limited to training talent, HR learning and development people that genuinely be helpful to others. And so I just did that research and that thought exercise prior to writing the book, and I just made sure that my stories would resonate with that broader audience. And so if you're lucky enough to be able to brainstorm in advance who might the possible, and you don't want 20 audiences, you know, all of my audience, something in common. Right. They just maybe do work in a different sector. I think that can be really great. And to your point, Sarah, if you find that an audience is resonating with your book long after it's published, then it's like, how do I speak at their association conferences and get on their stage? There's nothing wrong with it. Absolutely.

I think it can really. It really helps. You know, one of the things that I talk to a lot of our authors about, when it comes to, like the branding aspect, you know, it's not just about the book, it's about what you build around the book. Right. And so one of the things that I talk to them about quite a bit is how to listen to the audience after the book is out. Right. When the book is out, what are the comments that are coming back? What are the surprising things that come in? What are the incoming messages that you get on social media or into your inbox, you know, that can help shape your next steps. Right? Because if you get an influx, you write this book and you intend it for HR directors, but you get this whole subsects of nonprofits that are suddenly really resonating with it. What can you do to capitalize on that and be able to expand what you're doing and the people that you're helping? And you know, I think a lot of our authors, not a lot of our authors, but I've worked with authors in the past that, that try to.

Do it too much.

Right. On that, you know, they. They're like, I want to be able to serve everybody. So, okay, this is for dads, and this is for professionals, and this is for teachers, and this is for this group.

And it's like Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Let's start with that core. And then as you get data in, as you get information in about what's resonating, then build out the pieces and see what you're doing there. So I want to get to one other question that I had. So, you know, your book, you mentioned, it's, you know, measurement evaluation on a shoestring. And so I want to understand what are some ways, what are some low cost ways that authors can see if their book or their course is having impact without having to invest a ton in market research and, and all of that. What are some ways that they can see what impact they're having?

So this is where that second question that I mentioned, I think becomes a really powerful guiding force. And that is, what do you want the book to do for you? Because one of the challenges with the word impact is that it kind of doesn't mean anything. Because it can mean anything. Right?

Right. Yeah.

I remember when I was, I was getting my doctorate degree and I'm doing a lot of writing to prepare for my dissertation being published. And one of my advisors was like, never use the word impact. I'm like, but why? She said, you have to unpack it. Impact in of itself doesn't mean anything. What do you mean by impact? And so I think, is our book having an impact? I really believe we have to start with what do we want the book to do for us? Because the things that happen in the world are kind of that snowball, like, what if I become a best selling author? How cool would it be if measurement and evaluation, like, top the New York Times? That would be so cool. Whatever. That wasn't the point of me writing the book. The point was I had collected. It's just an easy methodology. Let me put my stories and recommendations and like something that you can put in your bag, have on your desk and just consult it whenever you need the help. And that's why I wrote the book. Plus, I am a young face. I hope to stay a young face for a very long time. Also, there's some downsides to that, right? Like as a, as a younger professional, while I've been practicing in this area for many, many years, I don't have 10 books behind me. I don't own a business that's been around for 25 years. A book is an incredible credibility builder. It takes time and dedication. And if you want people to know about your book, you market it, you got to speak at places, you got to get a newsletter. There's a lot of work that goes into making sure people know that your book exists and getting them to read it, talk about it. And it is a credibility builder. So what do we do to measure if our book is having an impact? We have to answer for ourselves first and foremost. What is the book?

Why are you writing in the first place? Right? Out of all the things that you could do to market your brand or your ideas, why a book? It is literally the first question I ask every single author that I sit down with is why are you writing that? Because when you are writing a book, when you're committing and investing in a self published book, especially if you're going to invest all this time, energy, effort, consistency, considerable quality time and money, what do you want it to do for you? And then that really becomes the guiding force for everything that we just decide marketing wise. That helps us with positioning, it helps us with, you know, how we want to phrase things. It helps us with deciding one promo or another, are we reaching the right people, you know, so yes, that question right there, like, it's not so much about the impact you're having, but how it impacts the goal that you want.

Yeah, I want to share one quick example of a current client that I think is just brilliant, of why he wrote the book and what we're doing now to get him ready for his next book. He had experience, like so many of us, that was really powerful and life changing and it prompted him and his co author to write this book. He admits it's very much an opinion piece. It's not, it's grounded in some research, but it's mostly just like these are the beliefs, these are the experiences that we've had in the world and we want to share that. Well, he brought me on board to build a valid assessment tool and so we are collecting data over the next, I don't know, year two, and we are going to then use that original data to test how much of what they wrote in V1 of their book was truly opinion and not generalizable, how much of it is generalizable, how much of it is more factual now that we have a larger data set to say, yeah, this experience is happening for other people and these. So the V2 of the book is going to incorporate all of our original data to support, to challenge, to just say something new altogether about the concepts published in the first version. And I think that's brilliant. Yeah, big vision. It helps him to be an authority. It also is consistent with his values that we want to be transparent, we want to have integrity and so we're bringing people on this journey as we explore these concepts and how they show up in the world. I just think it's a really, really cool way of putting some meaningful content out there, but then also validating it with original.

It's so interesting. I'm so curious how that, how things are going to shift from book one to book two, you know, Me too. Yeah.

Yeah.

All right, so we are almost out of time.

Almost.

I have one more question for you, but before we do that, I do want to give away one more prize. This is going to be a hashtag prize. Angela, are you. She's down there. There she is. So before I ask this last question, Dr. Lena, I do want to do one more just, just to wrap up things to everybody who's been here today. Hashtag drop in the chat if you're interested in this prize. Hashtag David, because I just think that is exactly what we're covering today. So enter that hashtag, no spaces. There you go. Data nerd to be entered to win. Now, Alina, as we are wrapping up, what I mean, I have mine opinion on this, but I want to hear from you. What is the one takeaway you hope someone who is listening today can really take as they move forward with writing their book, building their brand, rolling out new intellectual property and content? What's the one takeaway you really would like them to take from this conversation today?

So we think about the term data and we also talked a lot about impact. And I think every single one of us wants to make a difference. We don't write a book because we just want to put something in the world that nobody's going to read. We actually want to generate something that will help somebody make a difference, make a change in some way. And so the two things that we defined in today's conversation that might have surprised you is that data and impact in of themselves are meaningless. We have to make meaning out of our data, usually by having a highly good questions. And then similarly with impact, impact doesn't just show up. Impact is something that we plan for, that we define, that we articulate for ourselves. And the same is true with data. Data can do a million things for you. It can put you in a place that you never imagined, but you have to plan for it. We have to have a vision. We have to go out on a limb and say, this is what I want to happen. Let me test if this is possible and what would make it possible and what data do I need? What steps do I have to take so that we are using our data wisely and we're making the impact that we want. A good friend of mine likes to say that in order to make a difference or in order to make an impact, we have to have plan for it. We have to make a plan. So whether you are using original data to stand out in the marketplace or to make your book really meaningful with original research and stories, we have to have a plan for that. It doesn't have to be perfect. We have to have something that will guide us, give us some direction, and then the data becomes meaningful and the don't plan at all.

Right, yeah, love that. Love that. Okay, last call for hashtags. I'm just going to say that I think my sort of big takeaway of what I really pulled from this was that data doesn't necessarily have to mean, you know, high profile studies and statistics and just, you know, charts and graphs that are telling us something. Data can exist in your experiences. It can exist within your own story and what shapes your journey, the people that you interact with every day and what you take into the world. All of those are data, all of those are data artifacts. And now it's a matter of choosing the lens in which you want to look at them and then use them effectively. So I don't know, maybe I'm wrong on that, but that was kind of what I pulled, is that it's not up to the scientists and the researchers to tell us things. It's up to us to gather the information in our daily lives, in our work, in our conversations and our relationships, and then be able to use that information effectively. So, yeah, that was my takeaway there.

Yeah, absolutely right. Yep. And just don't forget, because I think there's a lot of information out in the world that may or may not be factual that we just want to understand. You know, what sample the basic research, what's the sample size? Is that generalizable? You know, what's the methodology? And the same is true for you. We might have one experience. One experience doesn't generalize to the rest of our lives. And so as we're having those conversations and engaging with those observations through our own unique lens, just make sure that we have a large enough sample for that data collection to be meaningful, to become meaningful. And then we can go into something.

Love it. All right, well, let's roll with our final prize. Angela, take it away, please.

We just have a few, so that's okay. It's gonna be an easy pick. And I can't be who it's going to be. It can't be me.

I gotta draw again.

But at least it'll remove my name this time. That's what I get for.

For giving you guys putting in the hashtag. Yeah.

All right, let's see. Stella.

All right, Stella, congratulations.

A little while, Stella, please remind me of your mailing address and please let me know which prize you would like.

Well, thank you so much, Dr. Lena, for joining us today. You know, tell us how we can find out more information about you. If anybody's interested in following up, what are the best ways for them to contact you?

I am on LinkedIn so you can find me Dr. Olena Schlachta on LinkedIn. And if you want to learn more about my work or get in touch with me, jump on my website, drelaina.com There you go.

I just dropped that in the chat for everybody. Well, it was really a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much for the information and giving us a peek into your world and how it can help experts and authors and consultants. It's really fascinating stuff. So really appreciate the time today and all that knowledge. Dropped.

Thank you, Sarah and Angela, for letting me be part of your nerdy community. And I am so excited to dig into more of the videos that you have. As an author who wants to get more of my message out into the world, I know I have a lot.

Oh, well, we can't wait. You just let us know anytime you want to chat. Definitely check out book launches, tv. And then just as a little preview for everybody, next week, Julie will be back for our livestream doing another YouTube live with you next Tuesday. But also do not forget we have our Self Publish and subscribe Succeed summit coming up November 13 through 15. I want to make sure the dates right there, November 13 through 15, we are hosting our next summit. So in order to get a ticket to that, all you need to do is pre order Julie's second edition of Self Publish and Self Publish and Succeed. So definitely check that out. But thank you everybody for joining. Pleasure to have you here. And we.