A New Opportunity With Local Businesses with Ben Adkins

How do you make business problems disappear? Wrap em in bacon for business owners, marketing execs, and anyone trying to grow your business. Pump your profits and make more while doing less. Welcome to Bacon Wrapped Business with Brad Costanzo. Sizzling hot business advice guaranteed to make you fat profits. Every week, our chefs will serve you proven recipes for ramping up your revenue. Now here's your host, Brad Costanzo.

All right, what's up, ladies? We're back with another episode. I address you all as ladies because I like to imagine just a lot of ladies listening to my show and nobody else because it does my ego well. But chances are it is a bunch of fellas listening and trying to soak up some of this fun business knowledge. And as the intro said, the sizzling hot business advice trying to get guaranteed to make you fat profits that we do here on this show. And you can hear my guest giggling in the back. I'm in a good mood today. It is almost the end of the week. Heading to New York City tomorrow. I'm sorry. Early next week for a movie premiere with my partner, Frank the Legend Shamrock. You might know him if you're a UFC fan. We're going up there for. For another one of my clients events. It's gonna be a. It's gonna be an amazing documentary airing on Showtime called Bipolar Rock and Roller. I encourage you guys all to check it out. It airs on May 25th. I'm really excited to be up there. I'll probably record a couple episodes when I'm there. And if you're in New York City, I'm gonna try to get this out before I take off. So give me a shout. Ask bradakenratbusiness.com maybe we can meet up. That being said, I got a fun episode today. I've invited a longtime friend of mine onto the show, one and only Dr. Ben Atkins. Now, Ben is not the founder of the Atkins Diet, but you would never know it with his sleek, amazingly muscular physique. However, he is a licensed chiropractic physician, but he's also the founder of the Closers Cafe. So I found out about Ben years ago when he came out with courses on how to, you know, use Facebook ads to generate leads and just really be a magician. Right. With Facebook ads. And this is years and years ago. And throughout the years, we've met up several times, and I've always really enjoyed talking to Ben, and I wanted him on the show today because he's up to some really cool stuff and he's kind of evolved his business model and he's now using Facebook marketing not only with local businesses, but to help other people really understand how to tap into a very, very, very big market, very lucrative and relatively simple too. And it's a lot simpler than a lot of the things that entrepreneurs, marketers and people that I know go after and try to scrounge out a living and realize that this stuff is a lot harder than it looks. So he created this Closers Cafe blog and mastermind when he realized that these other businesses around the globe, they also need effective marketing and they're really not getting it. So it's a resource for those who are looking to build their own Facebook ad agency and they can help their thrive. And I mean, Ben is one of the most sought after highlight, you know, keynote speakers at conferences all over the country, including Ryan Levesque Ask Method. Ryan is a, if you listen to the show, he's a former guest on the episode as well. And if you've been to Traffic and Conversion Summit or Social Media Marketing World, you've probably heard Ben speak as well. However, we're going to get him to reveal the really, really, really good stuff here on Bacon Wrap Business. Ben, welcome to the show, my brother.

It is so good to be here. And we always have just a little too much fun, don't we?

Ab Smurfly. We're going to keep that up. We're going to keep that up. So, yeah, we were, you and I were just chatting a little bit off line here about what you're doing. And I always like to hear when people evolve past, you know, and like, oh man, you were totally doing this before and you're not doing that anymore. What, what was the change? Why did it happen? What'd you find? And that's one of the things I know, like I've evolved my business quite a bit over the past few years, as a lot of us have, and I'd love to hear what you're up to right now. Like, what is, what is Closers Cafe? What's going on? What's this opportunity in the market?

You know, it's, it's getting, it's me getting back to roots, a lot of it. And sort of understanding that if you've been around online marketing any amount of time, you realize that there's a lot of stuff that there's a lot of distractions. I guess that's the best way to put it. There's a lot of things that you can spend a lot of time on and not get much out of. And over the last few Years, you know, with kiddos and things like that, you start thinking, okay, how can I affect the world in a way that's big? But at the same time I still have my day and I can still hang out with my family and sort of enjoy, you know, the income that's coming in. Because I think that's, that's a big thing that we disconnect from a lot too is, you know, how do you still actually enjoy the fruits of what you're doing? So it was a simplification that we're, you know, that we're really getting into with this Closers Cafe stuff that is super profitable, but it doesn't take a lot of time. So just to just as a teaser.

Well, I love that by the way, because that, you know, that is one of the things that I know I've been guilty of is just over complicating stuff. And there is so much money and opportunity out there and sometimes it's the simplest business model that really wins the day. And so you're working with a lot of local business people and you're also working with folks. More importantly, you're showing other folks, correct me if I'm wrong, how to do the marketing. And I'm gonna have you explain exactly what you're doing for local business owners in creating, I'm guessing what might start off as a side hustle if they don't have a lot of experience and then grow into potentially like a full time business. Is that right?

Yeah, you know, I think a lot of what we're doing is super simple and it's one of those things that people think, okay, I can do that. And they'll, they start off and you know, they pretty surprised when they get their first client. Pretty surprised that it's super easy to do. This is one of those businesses that like we started up and I realized, oh, we got a hundred clients and none of them ever want to talk to me. But they keep paying, which is nice. So I think a lot of people that sort of following what we're doing, what we're going to be talking about, that's the big benefit is they have customers that are happy for doing a very simple thing and you can pretty much automate most of it. So that's nice.

I love that. So, you know, this episode, I'm going to think of a good friend of mine named Mark. Mark S. I'm not going to call him out too much here who's a good friend of mine and he's in a job right now and we talk a lot, and he's thinking about starting his road down an entrepreneurial career, but he's not sure what to do because there's so many options out there. And he and I have had a lot of conversations. I'm like, you know, the hard part for me is, is to really recommend something that is not hyper complex, is doable, it doesn't require a ton of capital, a ton of time, and you can really get the wheels moving kind of quickly and start to get those early successes, as opposed to, like, one of the things he's thinking about doing is starting an Amazon business, which is. I mean, I know a lot of people who just kill it on Amazon, but it's getting harder and harder and harder, and it requires a lot of capital and time to really do it correctly. Um, and so I'm gonna be asking you some questions with Mark in mind. Cause Mark's kind of guy. I really want. I want him to listen to this, and I want him to go, man, this is so cool.

Like, I.

Actually, this is another option I never really would have explored. So let's. Let's talk to Mark out there, and let's talk about, like, what is the opportunity? What is the, you know, the opportunity and the pain in the marketplace that you're helping people kind of solve.

So I'll start in with, like, how I got into this. I, you know, have been doing Facebook ads forever. And I would say that we've. We're some of the best, especially at getting people through the door using Facebook ads. And just to be completely upfront, we charge anywhere from, you know, $500 to $3,000 a month to run Facebook ads for somebody. So we have a few of those clients, you know, several years ago. We have a few of these clients. This is before we. You know, we're really growing. And I'm helping a client. It was a chiropractor. And this particular client came to me one day and said. And this just kind of blew me away. She said, you're doing this. It's working. We're getting people through the door. But I'm a little embarrassed by my Facebook page because I never update it. And I know. I know people are looking at it, and could you help with that? And at the time, I was like, really? Like, okay. Like, I mean, if that's what you want, I'm sure I could figure it out. And so we put some stuff together, and I was like, if you'll pay us $200 a month, that's. We'll we'll post for you two times a day. And so they did. And I was like, well, that was easy. Of course I was making, you know, a good amount of money, but I was like, and what was so great is you really, if you do it the way we do it, you only have to have about three months worth of posts that you create one time, and then you can rotate it, and then you can take on clients in a similar niche and use the exact same content. And so I started looking at this, and I was like, it can't be that easy. And so I started actually shopping this to other chiropractors, and then we moved into dentists and things like that, but I started shopping this. And what was so funny is all. All of them wanted that because, you know, if they understood Facebook at all, they realized that right now there's two places people go. They search you on Google, and then they search you on Facebook more than you know. That's crazy. But people do search on Facebook to go snoop on businesses, and a lot.

Of these search you on Google, and then they'll check you on Facebook just to see if you look like crap. And if you look like crap, it can really hurt you.

They'll. They'll go somewhere else. And so, like, that's the thing is a lot of these businesses, when I first went in, they understood. They were like, well, you know, Facebook reaches down, but. But that. That's not really what it is. We have people that are, you know, our patients that are searching and saying, you guys aren't posting. And we started figuring out the thing people think when they see, you know, you haven't posted in six months is that's actually how you run your business on the inside, too.

Yep.

So we started, you know, shopping this around to all these local businesses, and it was the easiest sale in the world for $100 to $200 a month. It cost us about an hour of our time to set this stuff up once we had the initial content created. And they kept paying us. And so we kept doing this. And this is sort of what got really interesting about it. I'm a Facebook ads guy. I like doing Facebook ads. It takes a little more time. Not everybody can do Facebook ads. But we started, you know, shopping our higher ticket services to our existing clients. And of course, they were way more receptive to paying us higher ticket money because they were already paying us for something else. And so, you know, what ends up happening is I look up one day and I'm quote, unquote, the Facebook Ads guy. I look up one day and I realize that about 10% of my clients are actually purchasing the high ticket. The majority of our income comes in from these little hundred to $200 Facebook posting things.

Really.

And the best part is I have a group of people. I'm fortunate enough that we have a group of people that listen to us with this stuff. And over the years, we taught a lot of complex things to these folks online about how they could do certain things and some would kill it. There's a certain group that would kill it, and some would. They'd have trouble with this stuff. We started teaching them how to do some of this stuff. And right away, this was something that just about anybody I figured could do. And they were getting clients. They were able to provide the services. And like I said, clients weren't stopping. They kept paying them. So that's sort of been the thing for me is like, yes, it works for us. And I'm like, thrilled with the recurring income. But it's one of the things that I get super excited when I can show somebody else, like you were talking about your friend. That doesn't require. I mean, it's nothing to start up. You know, you really don't have to pay for anything. You don't have to do anything until you actually have a client. So it's pretty awesome.

That's. So let's. Let's walk through that. Well, first, let me recap the. The. The services you're doing. A couple hundred bucks, like a post for you, basically. I mean, it's such a. It's one of those things that. What I like about it is it's such a hassle for them. They know they need to do it, and it's easy for them to write a check for a few hundred bucks a month to somebody just didn't know. It's taken care of. Right. And then that gets your foot in the door.

Yeah.

Right.

So.

And then that allows you, once you know how to do, like, Facebook ads and how to do more advanced marketing stuff, whether it's website design or really anything else, it kind of gives you that opportunity to offer those. But you don't need to start there.

Right.

You can easily just start getting a few clients a few hundred bucks. I mean, shoot a few hundred bucks a month with multiple clients. That can change somebody's life. That can easily allow them the ability to quit a job or to see that they've got momentum and be able to scale that. So let's walk through the way it works.

Sure.

I Don't know anything about this. You're talking to me. So how do I go get that client? Like, I'm nervous. I've never done social media marketing for somebody. Right. Like, what do I. What do I do? Do I have to go knock on doors? Do I do this over the email or the phone? What's. What's it look like?

So I think this is the perfect actual podcast to. To reveal this. I've been on a lot of podcasts lately, and nobody. I've not talked about this with anybody. But, you know, all other podcasts suck, by the way. There you go. Right? Now that's what it is. Gonna get me in trouble. No. So. So what we do. And I think that this is just the dumbest thing in the world, but someone used it on me back when I used to be in a chiropractic office. And I was like, that's genius. Most people that are selling stuff to local businesses come through the door asking for an appointment to pitch something, Right?

Yep.

I mean, if you've ever been in a brick and mortar business, your whole week is basically spent avoiding these people. So one time I had somebody come in my office, and I hired her. She works. She works with me now because it was so smart. They came into my office and brought donuts. And they didn't ask for anything. They just said, we're new. We want to introduce ourselves, and we'd love to hang out sometime.

We would love you to get fat.

Yeah. And walked out. And I ate too many donuts, of course. But the next time. And they called, like a day later, the next time they called, my receptionist booked them for an appointment right away. And my receptionist had gotten really good at not booking salespeople appointments at that point. And I thought, that's interesting. So a lot of times what we do is I pick a niche. If you've never done this before, you pick a group. So you pick chiropractors, you pick dentists, whatever. Go pick a niche. And we literally walk through the door with a cheap box of donuts, and then we call the next day. Or we Facebook. Most of the time I'm Facebooking at this point. We Facebook them the next day, and it gets us an appointment to talk with them about their marketing.

Yeah. It's amazing what little gestures like that will do.

Yeah.

So. So now do you recommend that other people do that? Like, you're gonna start taking boxes of donuts to all these people or you're going to. Or there are other little bit more efficient ways that you found to reach out and to generate those. Those.

It's super interesting and it's a great question what I tell most of the people because we train people to do this stuff all the time. Get your first five people by doing that, which is not incredibly difficult. Right. But what we found is I, as I was teaching people and seeing the problems that they, if you can get your first five, you pretty much understand how to scale a little bit. Because you know, the first time you do anything, you have to learn the ins and outs of it. Going through five people doing this, even though it's a pretty automated service going and do it, you learn five, you're good after five, you can literally take the testimonials that those people will give you and you can build an opt in page. And from now, I mean, like, we've got Facebook traffic going to opt in pages where people go through a little mini course. We get them on the phone. And now it's something I can literally do without having to go do the donuts because you run out, you know, like me, if I'm taking donuts everywhere, I'm going to eat too many donuts. You put on ten pounds. You're like, maybe I should stop doing this and figure another way to do it. So that's hilarious.

Okay, cool. So, and the pitch, what's the pitch like?

So a lot of times we go in and I don't ever tell people what they should be doing with their business in their marketing. I think that's a terrible way to go in through the door. So a lot of times what we do is when we get that meeting, a lot of times it's off donuts or if it's over the phone, it's because they went through it. Opt in. And I'll just say, hey, so what is it that you're trying to do right now? You're here. What do you got in your business right now? How many patients are you seeing? How many people are coming through the door? What are you aiming for? And more often than not, when you've opened up with a kindness, people are more than open to sharing at least the, you know, high level details of it. And so they'll start telling us that. And then I go through, I say, okay, so Facebook ads might be the way to go to getting new people through the door, but I'm not going to do Facebook ads for anybody that doesn't have two things down. If your website doesn't look good and your Facebook page is not locked in, people when they See, your Facebook ad are going to go peep on those two things before they opt in. That's just the way that it goes. These days, people are getting very savvy. And so we say if you want to do something that's more of a Legion thing, you need to start with these two things. Now, if they've already got those two things handled on their own, we'll go to something more advanced. But more often than not, their website's not where it needs to be. Their Facebook page isn't where it needs to be, and we're able to help them quite a bit with that. And like I said, the go to service for most people that they want to start with is just getting that Facebook monkey off their back, because that's the thing. They know they need to be doing it. They know that it counts. Even though the reach has apparently gone down, because that's what everybody talks about, it's still something where people are seeking them out. And so being able to have that done where they don't have to think about it anymore is worth. If you can keep it under $300 a month, people jump at it. Yeah, but then you just have. Right. Then you just have to have the systems to keep it going and, you know, make sure they're good.

So what are some of the. What are some of the roadblocks that people are having, the obstacles? Because, I mean, it's one thing to make it all sound like, hey, Everybody's just dying 300 bucks in your pocket, but what are some of the things that people have had to overcome? Or like, that's harder than it sounds.

I think the number one thing with most people that start out doing this is, especially if you've sort of been in this Internet world, a push button. You know, that that's always what's sort of pushed in, into your head is a lot of people, the first time they go talk to a business owner, they forget that they know how to talk. And I mean, they do. Like, I have so many people that we teach this stuff to that I get on a phone conversation with, and they're so conversational, they're so charming and. But they sit behind a computer like, kind of like me and you sometimes. Right. And so they sort of forget. So a lot of times it's just one of those things where they're like, okay, I do need to talk to somebody on the phone. I do need to talk to somebody in person occasionally. And I think that's one of the big things is both I and you, if you really come down to it, have built our business with phone conversations or, you know, even with all this Internet stuff. Even when I put someone through an opt in page, I'll still pick the phone up. So I would say that's probably the number one thing is, you know, it's a great business model, but I do talk to people still.

God forbid.

Right? I know, right?

That's awesome. So have you got any. Are there any people that. That you've trained to do this? You've just had some really remarkable success. That's worth sharing.

Yeah, absolutely. I've got a couple that I can throw your way. We have one person in particular. His name's Drew, and Drew's been with us a long time. Drew is a doer, right? He's like the person that you put something in front of it, it makes sense. He goes and does it. So he's one extreme, and I'll tell you the other extreme in just a minute. But with Drew within, I would say, shoot, this was amazing. Within probably 90 days, Drew had about 30 clients doing this kind of thing, you know, and it was. It was amazing to watch him do that. Now we have some other side of some folks that are a little more questioning of, okay, does this work? Do I get out and go do it? How do I do it? And once they got sort of over that, they were able to stack, you know, five, 10 clients within a few months. And what was super interesting about that is it gave them the ability to cut back what they were doing already for income or to quit their job entirely because it put a few thousand bucks in their pocket. And once they had that extra time, then they were over, you know, that hurdle. Like, they were doing all this on their lunch break, Right. But once they got over that initial time constraint, then they were able to actually go scale it up. And what's so cool is a lot of them, and this is very widespread with the folks we train, they decided to take on one more service. So Instead of just 100, 200 bucks a month, they put an extra $200 or $100 a month, like building a website for them. And so the same pool of clients that they had started with ended up doubling their income. So like I said, it's been something that I've been doing. I've been teaching, and, you know, this for a long time. People how to do a lot of different stuff online. This is one of those things that, for some reason, this would make sense to people, and it's not a stretch for Most people, at least with the group that we teach, it's not a stretch for most people to sell something for $100 to $200 a month, harder to do a thousand, you know, things like that.

No, and that's a great way to get started as well. And it just kind of trains you to, you know, do a. Do a handful of effective activities, get the money rolling in. And, you know, once the money starts rolling in and you've done this a couple times, the confidence goes up and the confidence goes up and up and up, and you're able to ask for more. And I mean, the beautiful part is you don't have to do. You don't have to do all this stuff yourself either, because there's a million and one ways to outsource all the work. And you get 30 clients, you're not doing all the work yourself. There's, you know, there's people who can do this for you. Do you. Do you talk about that for people as well, that in closures Cafe?

Yeah. So one of the big things is, is we try to teach things as they become important. So we have different levels that we have in what we call the cafe. And what sort of happens is. Is when you get five clients, I teach you how to, like, go do events, so you can get 20 clients at once. Once you sort of get to that mark, then we teach you how to hire a staffer to do all the work for you. And so, like right now with my business, for instance, I have one person that pretty much manages it for me, and I just check in and make sure it's good. So having that experience myself, we're able to say, okay, once you get here to this point, that's when you probably want to get some of the work off and you've actually got the money to go hire someone to do it.

Yes, yes, absolutely.

Yeah. And, you know, I think the best thing, and I'll just say this is for, you know, for 30 to 100 clients. The software that we use to run the majority of the service literally cost us under $100 a month for all of them. So the profit starts to stack pretty quick.

Wow, that's fantastic. So are you spending all your time with this right now, or are you working on doing some other stuff that's kind of like crazy sexy cool.

So I spend, you know, about 10% of my time actually running the agency now. So where we're actually to brick and mortars, right. I SPE probably another 80% of my time teaching this stuff to Folks that want to go do it and that the demand for it has started to kick up quite a bit since people have started to hear about it, which is cool because there's a lot. Listen, there's so many small businesses out there, we're never going to run into each other. It's going to be very rare. But I would say the other 10%, man, it's like the dumb fun stuff. I keep thinking I'm going to start this arcade bar, the Barcade. And that's the fun, silly thing that I'm. That I'm looking into right now. That if you just want to get into craziness.

Yeah, that would be fun. Hey, on the stuff that you've done when you've worked with local businesses with, you know, some of it's just activity based stuff like this, some of it's lead gen and whatnot. Have you ever really went down the route of doing the lead gen and the closing for them? Because I know that I've got some. I haven't really personally done a lot of the local business lead gen myself, but I'm really familiar with it and I've got some friends with some really interesting stories where they realized that they were doing some lead gen and a lot of it was Facebook ads to great stuff. And they realized that these people can't close these damn leads. And granted the leads that they're getting, like if you've got a business who's used to closing referral leads and now they're getting cold Facebook marketing leads, they're not the best leads. I mean, I'm sorry, they're not as good as the referral leads. So a lot of times they screw it up. So these people that I know have done a really good job at saying, all right, we're going to actually even. We're going to, we're going to own the traffic, we're going to own the conversion of that traffic and we're even going to collect some of them maybe even went to the extent of collecting the payments for what they're doing. And it's. They've grown really, really remarkable businesses. And what, what was interesting is what he said. He goes, man, if you control the traffic and the conversion and the sales, he goes, you actually control the business without ever having to do it. And I don't know if like, if you ever actually taken it to that step where you're doing all those little aspects. It's much more complicated, but potentially much more so.

No, no, no. Super, super profitable. Yeah. So we've never gone that far with it. But one of the big things that we do and it sort of leads into that, that may be the next step for us is when we take on a lead gen client. One of the, one of the most important parts, it's not the legion like the Facebook ad stuff. You know, we teach that in Closers Cafe. If you really focus on one niche and you focus on one or two funnels that are just recreatable and by the way, I can share those, some of those funnels with you, with your listeners later. But if you have those funnels, that part's not hard. You nailed it because this is the real, this is the real problem. It's training those businesses to actually close. So within the software that we build out to do this stuff, we have a follow up system that happens there and so that ups the percentage a little bit. But the first month to two months with a new lead gen client, it's the most important part because if you can train them correctly to follow up. You know, I had a conversation today where it was so simple. They said, well we've been calling these business. I'm like, have you, are these people that you know, opted in? I said have you text them? And the answer was no. And so I know from experience that when we get businesses that start texting people that opt in with phone numbers to lead gen, the actual conversion and coming into the office goes way up. And it's just little stuff like that that we have to train a business and get them on board with. And typically it takes us a good month to get everybody locked in. But man, once you build that machine, you're right, it is insanely profitable. And if we can't control it, I've gotten really good at this. At this point, anybody that does this, we want to make sure they're good at this. I've gotten really good before I ever sell the business anything to understand if they have the kind of people there that can be successful with the lead gen funnel.

That's great. That's great. Yeah. It's an interesting way to also realize that you can, it's a place where you can eventually scale up and evolve too once you just start getting things moving. But bottom line, there's a million local businesses out there and they all need new business and most of them are just so busy just running their operations that they neglect a lot of the marketing and that's really where the opportunity lies. As an entrepreneur, you're out there to solve problems for people and that's the name of the game. And it's one problem we know that all businesses have in plentiful supply is lack of leads.

Yeah. And you know, I think that's the key thing is back when I was a chiropractor, I was probably one of the more tech savvy and marketing savvy chiropractors out there. If I would have had someone come in and offer to do this for me for a fee, I'd have been all over it. I mean, it's just, it's. I wanted to be a chiropractor. I didn't want to have to do the marketing all day. Even though I love marketing when I'm in that chiropractor mode, I wanted to do that. I think that's the thing that I tell everybody. I'm like, listen, even if they know what they're doing, they don't want to do it. They'd much rather write a check. That in itself is a huge opportunity because unlike some of the things on the Internet, there's an unlimited amount of these local businesses that want some help.

Yep, absolutely. So let's talk about, let's talk about the way you're helping these people. I mentioned Closers Cafe. What is it?

The Closers Cafe or closerscafe.com closerscafe.com Yep.

Going there right now. And this is a place where so if people are listening to this and they're looking for, they're like, okay, I like this. This is kind of cool. I want to try something new, different. I even want to recommend this to somebody else who's looking for an opportunity to put money in their pockets in a simple way that can start off as a side hustle. What are some of the other resources that you give here? As I'm, as I'm looking around on it, I want to see.

Sure. So my favorite post is the one that's usually pinned to the top and it's called the 90 Day Hustle. And that is very much focused on an ads type of business. And so that's interesting. What we're doing in the next couple days it's going to be up is we're actually going to do a class for everybody to just teach this model. You know, what is the two posts a day model if you want to build a business? And typically this is the line, how do I make 10k a month? What would I need to do to do that? And so we're going to have a class up in the next couple of days and it'll be on the sidebar, everywhere. Of course on the site we've got that. But, like, if you just want to jump in and see some of my favorite stuff and you want to basically steal some of the funnels that we use for these local businesses, I actually have a link, closerscafe.com bacon if you go there. Oh, I know, right? So if you go there, like, I've got six funnels, and each of these funnels is like my core thing that I do when I'm running a Facebook ad campaign for one of these businesses. How we drive leads. It's the offer, it's the whole thing. So I think the big thing is, is if you're kind of leaning this direction, go read some of that stuff, see if it feels like a good fit. And then, like I said, go through the web class, go through closerscafe.com bacon and you've got some stuff right there that you can immediately go make money with. And the best part is, with most of the stuff, you don't actually have to spend anything until you have a client.

Yeah, absolutely. That's the key, right? And it's just getting out there, getting your. Getting your feet wet and trying it out.

Yeah, exactly.

I love it. Well, Ben, man, we gotta catch up again sometime soon. It's been too long since we've seen. I think it's been actually like a year and a half since we've actually hang out.

I gotta get on a plane. I gotta get on a plane and just come see you. That's the way it is.

San Diego doesn't suck to come visit, does it?

No, it's great.

That's super cool. For my listeners. Mark S, you better be listening to this, buddy, because I'm going to be. I'm going to be grilling you on it. I hope you've enjoyed this because this, this is one of the fun things I get to do, is show you, show you different ways that people are creating opportunity for themselves by solving problems, being entrepreneurial, being a hustler. Ben has done a great job, I think, of laying it out in a way that anybody can understand and as I can. And I can tell you the guy's been an expert at this and many, many other things over the years. So I highly recommend you pay close attention to what he's doing, because I guarantee you he's not BSing you. Ben, thanks again. Like, by the way, if people, if they do want to reach you in any other way or follow up with you on social media, are there any other great ways that you like to interact with your people.

I love Facebook. So I mean, you can come find. You can just search Ben Atkins on Facebook and you can message me there, any questions you have. It's. This is sort of my passion in life. So feel free to throw me anything and I'll, I'll get back to you, if not right away very soon. And then you can always go to closerscafe.com and there's always ways to get a hold of me there too. So love it.

Well, I will. I'll put all the links in the show notes and everybody else can give this a listen and go apply it. See if it makes sense for you and if it doesn't make sense for you, but maybe a family member or a friend share this episode and let them know that there are options for them. Speaking of other options, if you have a business, if you have a problem you're trying to solve, you can always send me an email to ask bradaconwrapped business.com and I'm happy, happy to see if myself or any of my resources can help you find a solution to that problem. If you're in New York, shoot me an email to askratakenratbusiness.com as well and maybe we'll be able to hook up. But thanks for listening to the show and Ben, thanks for being a guest. Really appreciate it.

Thank you so very much for having me. So much fun as always.

Absolutely. Well, we'll talk soon. And guys, look forward to the next episode with you. Bye. Bye.