Growing Your Business As A Podcast Guest With Tom Schwab

Hey, guys, welcome back. It's Brad Costanzo, and this is bacon wrap business. If you are listening to the show for the very first time, you've discovered this because somebody shared a link or you just discovered, you know, that everything's better with bacon in the. In the itunes directory. Like, what is this all about? Well, here to tell you, I have got a really cool show for you today. But. But if you want to hear all the other shows, I want you to hit the subscribe button on itunes and you'll get all of them. You can also get on my free newsletter where I just send you out, you know, advanced copies of the. Of the interviews that I do and the audios, as well as some private webinars and classes that I only do for members of my newsletter. And you can always grab those or get on there@baconwrappedbusiness.com so I've had an interesting couple of weeks working on a few new projects, both for myself and for some clients, and it's been burning the candle at both ends. That's why it's probably been. I'm probably about a week overdue to give you guys this great episode. But what. One of the reasons I'm excited to talk to you about. I'm sorry, one of the reasons I was excited to talk to today's guest, Tom Schwab, is because we're going to talk about really utilizing podcasts as a guest to increase your exposure, publicity, and lead generation by using this new medium that is just growing like crazy. So I invited Tom on because he is an expert at inbound marketing, and that's kind of a wide range of. That's kind of a wide term. And I'll let Tom explain that a little bit more. But what he's been really adept at doing is leveraging the podcast universe and getting out there on shows just like mine in order to spread his message. But more than that, he's teaching other people how to do the exact same thing. And I wanted to pick his brain about some of the most effective ways. I know I've got a lot of my opinions about people who try to get on my show, and some people do it awesome. Some people do a terrible job at it, and they just never see the light of day. That being said, I want you to listen closely to this because if you are looking for an easy way to get exposure and do, you know, some massive or just get massive publicity out there, I think Tom's going to have some great strategies for you. So without any further ado Tom. Welcome to the show, buddy.

Brad, I am thrilled to be here.

Cool. It's happy to have you. So you're up in nice old Michigan and I'm in San Diego. So we've been before we got on the call, you know, I rubbed the weather in here a little bit too much. I won't go too much further.

And if I, if I was smart, we would be doing this live in San Diego and we'd have to do retakes for the rest of the winter.

Exactly. So I, as you heard, I gave the preface for what we're going to talk about today. So inbound marketing is a big thing, generating leads from all types of, you know, content marketing, etc. Etc. And I think a lot of people are familiar with those. But when we started talking about having you on the show and you brought this topic up about really harnessing podcast interviews and how to do it the right way and do this strategically, tell me a little bit more about your background and your business and what you're doing and how this has been very valuable for you.

Sure. Well, we built our business from a regional player here in Michigan to a national leader starting about in 2009 with inbound marketing, with this permission, content driven marketing. And really we, you know, without a marketing department, without a huge budget, we were able to grow our business and our traffic. Originally, we started with 3,000 paid visitors each month and within three years we were able to take that up to 70,000 organic visitors. And it worked so well with us with, with blogs.

Wait, 3,000 to 70,000? That's great.

3,000 to 70,000. And you know, the organic customers or the organic visitors, they converted so much better than the paid traffic. So for us it was just amazing. And as we built up this business, other people were asking me, you know, how we did it. And I love building things. And so once we got this up and going, it wasn't as much fun to run as it was to build. So I took more of an ownership position a couple years ago, let some other people in the company manage it, and I started focusing more on helping other companies use the same strategies that we did to go out there and attract visitors, engage leads, and ultimately convert customers and turn them into advocates. And so we've had a lot of fun doing that. And over the last year, we've really stumbled on podcast interviews and have just been amazed at how easy they are to do and how powerful they are, how powerful the results are.

Absolutely. And what's so cool about it is that I Saw some statistics recently and I mean, I've been doing this now for about a year and a half and if you look at the growth and the number of people listening to podcasts right now, like, you know, in their cars, it's especially with, you know, all the digital podcast apps and stuff that are now really easy to listen to in your built in dashboard. Not alone, let alone just putting your iPhone, you know, and headphones on and plug it in into your car. But have you seen any of the recent statistics on the percentage of people listening the podcast?

It's a, it's amazing and I think it's even a misnomer to call it podcast.

Yeah, really.

You know, there are people listening right now that have no idea what an ipod is, but it's more on demand radio now.

That's exactly even.

Even so, some of the stats I heard at podcast movement this year that only 20% of the U.S. population listens to podcasts currently. So there's huge growth and potential there. Yeah, but one of the things.

And that's a huge percentage, by the way. Even 20%, that's just a huge percentage already. But you're right. I think it's just going. It's going to go to 100.

Right. And the other thing is that if you look at it, you know, the percentage of television watching is going down, the percentage of blog reading is going down. So this is a medium that's really up and coming. But one of the things I love about it is it's so focused and niche. I think there's 186,000 podcasts in the US today. And what's great about that is that the audiences are very focused, very passionate. And you know, if you want a podcast about crocheting baby blankets, there's probably one out there, I guarantee. You know, you don't have to speak to a huge audience. You just need to speak to the people that are your ideal customers. Right. And that's why it makes, it makes it so powerful.

Yeah. Well, you know what's also cool about this is that, you know, if you're just listening to the radio and you're flipping through the channel and you know, these are people who just listen to what's ever on because it's on, and they just stop there like, okay, what's going on here? The people who decide to listen to your podcast, have they. There's a much more manual process to listen to it. You don't just flip through the stations, you actually go through the various ones that you're either subscribed to, or you search for a topic and you come across something, you're like, I want that. And they start from the beginning. They start, you know, they start listening. They don't come in midstream to some interview you did on the radio. And these people really want. If they've clicked on that and they're listening to this episode with you on it, they really want to know that. And those are the. Really, the best kind of prospects that you could have is the people who really care.

And it's so evergreen, too. So, you know, we're recording this in. In the end of 2015. It's just as pertinent to somebody that finds it in 2017. And you can't say the same thing for radio or other mediums that you know are really fleeting. So as more people find out about it, I think we're just going to see the listenership on old episodes go up also.

I agree. So this will be fun. I want to have a conversation now about strategies to get booked because I want to assume that the listener who has manually clicked, I want to listen to this because this seems cool, has a desire to get more exposure, and the idea of doing a podcast tour and. And leveraging this medium sounds really attractive to them. And they don't necessarily know exactly where to start and how to get going. So I've got opinions about, as I mentioned earlier, about people, the way they approach. There's good ways and there's ways that are just really annoying. And it's like, okay, I'm not even interested in having you on the show. So you obviously have done a lot of these and you teach other people to do it. Let's talk about some of your best strategies to get booked on shows besides. Hi, my name's Brad. I like your show. I'd like you to interview me because I'm really cool. Please interview me because I need people to listen to me. You know, what's. What's the strategy?

And I'm trying to sell. I'm trying to sell something to your listeners.

Bingo.

Have me on.

Yeah. So, yeah, what some of your strategies there?

I think it starts with defining who you want to talk to. And if you want to call that your avatar or your. Your ideal buyer Persona. But you want to make sure that you pick the right podcast, because if they don't have your listeners in there, you know, chances are the host is going to look at you and say, you know, you're not a good fit here. But also, you could spend an hour Doing an interview and never see any business results from it.

Yeah.

So the first thing is to define who you want to talk to. The second thing is that you've got to see yourself as an expert because you're going to use that to pitch to the host and to the. To the audience on why should they should listen to you. So those are the first two steps, and then the third one is where everybody starts asking the questions, well, how do I get on a podcast? And you know, there's 186,000 podcasts right now in the U.S. you don't need to be on all of them. I would say try finding three. And where are you going to find those? Well, put yourself in your ideal customer's shoes. Or ask them if you've got customers. Ask them if they listen to podcasts. Which ones? Sometimes, you know, if they listen to a big podcast, you may not want to be on there. The first one.

Yeah.

But go to a place like itunes with new and noteworthy and look and see what podcasts would be good fits because that's people that have been doing it for less than 90 days and your chances of getting on those shows a lot higher. And. And I'll guarantee you your first podcast interview will be the worst one you ever do. It's going to be a learning experience. So get some of those.

Well, if you've got a good host. The other thing is people really do have to realize, you know, you don't get onto a podcast and do a monologue, you know, the host. If you got a good host, they're going to ask you questions about it. So it's a conversation. So I don't think people should be as nervous as sometimes they. They are.

Well, I will say that I was very nervous on my first one. I've done over 70 interviews now, and it is intimidating the first time. But you're right, it's. Once you get over that, and we've even had a lot of clients that are introverts that wouldn't think of standing in front of a crowd and talking to 10,000 people. But, you know, get on Skype and talk to somebody one on one. It's a whole lot easier. Absolutely. And from the strategy standpoint, you need to put yourself in the other person's shoes. Right. When you're selling, you don't focus on what you have to sell. You focus on what the person that's buying needs. So look at who the host is and what they need.

Okay, so what do you go into that a little bit more about how would you know what the host needs? I mean, obviously you could listen to a couple of their shows and you can kind of see what they're doing, but that can be really time consuming if you're trying to really research a lot of these. What's an example of that, of what the host might need?

Sure. And I would say you can make it as hard as you want to or as easy as you want to. You know, just try focusing on three. You don't need to research 20, but think about the host. He needs content. He or she needs content. They need guests, they need interesting stories. They need people that can bring a fresh perspective to their audience. They need something that would be make people stop, download the episode and listen to it. Your goal on being on the podcast is to make the host look like a genius for having you on and introducing it to his audience.

Absolutely. So let's go through an example and we can both give examples of kind of that introduction email and how you get the foot in the door with somebody. So you've identified your audience, you found a couple, you know, you know, your topics that you can talk about and you've done some research on some good. Especially when you're just starting off some good podcasts to potentially be on, not necessarily going after, you know, ones in the top hundred itunes, because they usually have really long wait lists and, you know, and whatnot. But give me an example of maybe like an introductory email that you would, you would recommend people send, especially if they're just getting started.

Sure. And before I'd even send that email, I would make sure I'd listened to the podcast. I'd made sure I left a review of the podcast.

Smart.

Because every podcast host will read the review.

Absolutely.

Those are gold to them. You may subscribe to it, you may follow them on Facebook or Twitter. All of a sudden they see your name three or four times and now they get a brief, to the point email. Brad, I've been listening to Bacon Wrapped Business. I love it. I have this area of expertise that I think your listeners would really enjoy. It would be an engaging and actionable discussion. And make it a very brief email. Maybe put one or two bullet points there and then put. I've attached an overview sheet with all the information you need. Thank you. I look forward to connecting with you.

Absolutely.

You're so right to be something they're going to read on their phone and they're going to go through it really quick and you want to give them reasons to say yes. So if it's a 2,000 word email. They're never going to read it. And that one page, one sheet afterwards is so important because they can print that out now. They've got, you know, the questions they could ask you, they've got your bio, they've got your picture, all the contact information they ever need. And then if you can get a testimonial from somebody they know there, that's even better. Exactly. So go on LinkedIn and say, okay, if, if they're connected to this person, wow, we both know that person. And I'm going to make sure that I get that testimonial to put on it. And it just gives them, makes it so easy for them to say yes.

Yeah, that's awesome. So a couple of the things that you said that as a podcast host, I'll definitely agree with. So keeping it short, listen to the show, let me know. Like, one of the things I hate is a form letter. So you can have aspects of your pitch that are, that are formulaic, like, oh, here's my, here's, you know, here's my brief bio, here's the topics I typically talk about, etc. But put something, put something personal. Let me, let me at least believe you're a subscriber and listener to the show. I mean, quite honestly, you could, you could, I highly recommend at least listening to one or two episodes or at least parts of them. But you could send an email to people and just say, by the way, these are my top three episodes of yours. I thought they were really great and insightful. Flattery will get you everywhere with most people, including me. Right. So is it a little dishonest? Well, if you listen to it, it's not, but you can do that. But it's going to get somebody's attention because it shows. I mean, all podcast hosts want to be listened to and we want that acknowledgement. And so putting something like that, especially if, I mean, especially if you're able to listen to something, let's say from an individual guest and you're able to pull something out of a real conversation, letting me know emphatically that you did listen, now you've got my attention even more. One of the things I've done, because I've done some guest blogging and I have been on a few other podcasts, although I haven't actively gone on, pursued that I have with a few people, but is letting them know, like you said, something maybe offering an insight to something they haven't covered yet, or an addition to maybe if you have A topic, let's say somebody covered, you know, whatever the topic it was, and you've got an additional insight to something they've already done that does two things. It lets them know that you're paying attention to what they're doing, but it also lets them know that you can actually add value and not, you know, and it's appropriate for me. The other things that I think can be done that are really effective that you didn't mention is if you do have any social following or newsletter right now, and you tell me that, by the way, I have a small following, a small but loyal following, or a newsletter list of anywhere from 1,000 to 100,000. It doesn't matter. You don't even have to say the numbers. But I also, you know, if I'm on the show, I look forward to sharing it and your show with my following, because that's what's in it for the host. Right. We all want that. Let me know that you'll potentially share it, because unfortunately, there are some guests, sometimes the bigger they are, the less they share. There's some guests who don't share your episode, and that's kind of always like a letdown, but that's something that can be done. This works for me.

That's a great point. And that's. That's really your responsibility as a guest, too, is to promote that. Because if you want to get good word of mouth between podcast hosts to get invited on other shows, boy, show them love after the interview, too.

Yeah, absolutely.

The one thing you had mentioned that, you know, not listening to all of the show before, maybe you pitch it before you contact. I would warn people, always listen to at least one show.

Yeah.

Prior to. To going on a podcast. I've heard guests go on before, and, you know, the host asked the same question to the person every time. And then you hear some. Some guest go and he says, wow, I've never thought about that. Answer the question. And it's like what you're just telling the audience is, I have never listened to this. Yeah, that's a good point. I encourage people to take these. These interviews seriously. Right. If you were to speak to a thousand people or 10,000 people tomorrow, would you go up on stage and wing it? Probably not. If you. If you wanted to get results out of it. So, you know, you don't have to jump on an airplane to go talk to 10,000 people. You can do it from home in front of a microphone or in front of a telephone. So take 45 minutes and listen to an episode.

Yeah, you're absolutely right on that. The other thing that I didn't mention that can be really useful in getting the attention of a host is association with other people. I mean, this is just effective. It's name dropping. But if you let people know I was interviewed. Now, if this is your first time, you can't really do this, but you could say, I was recently interviewed on this one. You can check it out here. Or if there's any name dropping that you can do. Maybe you've interviewed people. You might not even have a podcast, but maybe you've interviewed somebody kind of well known just for your list. It could be something very simple or any other kind of association that you've got, even if you just have contacts. Maybe you know, podcast hosts, but you've never been on their show, but you let them know that, you know, by the way, I have a. You know, I have a really rich Rolodex. If there's other people in addition to me that you're looking to interview, such as boom, boom and boom. If these are people, you can actually make introductions to, put that on there as well. Because that's the other thing that podcast hosts are always trying to do, is increase our network and circle of influence. And the idea that maybe this can push people, it's actually pushed it over the edge for me for a couple of prior guests, and I won't mention who where. I was like, okay, this kind of seems like an interesting interview, but I'm not really sure.

So.

But they mentioned a couple people, and I was like, well, I can use them as a stepping stone to get to somebody else. And I'm sure that they've got good content as well. So it just kind of pushed it over the edge. Whereas before, I might be teetering on. I don't know if this was really a fit for me. I mean, name dropping can definitely help. One question I had for you, so now you've been on like 70 shows. This is what you're doing a lot. And I know that when we originally connected, you had Diane reach out to you. Who she does do this as, as a profession is connecting. Because there are services out there where you can get connected with other podcast hosts. I get emails all the time from podcast connection companies. Do you recommend starting off with that or starting off just.

That's a great way to get started. The hardest part you're gonna have is the first 30 to 90 days. It's almost like pumping a well. Once the water starts to flow, it becomes very easy so, and you talked about referencing shows you've been on. It's almost jumping up from level to level. So that first show, it really doesn't matter what it is, just so you have a recording that you can point to. And if you don't have that recording, maybe you've got a video of you speaking someplace, or send them just a video from your iPhone so that they know that, okay, they can talk. Because the worst thing they want is you to embarrass them. Right. So with that, you know, get that first one.

Okay, so Tom and I just had a little bit of audio issues here, and we cut out. So we're picking up where we left off. So, Tom, we were just talking about using outside podcast connection services to book you on your. On your shows. And I've gotten mixed opinions on this, but I want to hear it because, like, one of the things you said is, especially in the beginning, when you don't have the relationships and you aren't, you know, you aren't sure exactly how to get in there. And you might even be nervous that some of these. Connecting these Companies who connect YouTube podcast guests can be a great way to do it, because a lot of times they have the relationships, especially if they've booked successful guests on a show in the past. Obviously, they don't do it for free. Can you talk a little bit? You don't have to give any exact numbers, but an idea of what it might cost to use one of these podcast connection services.

Yeah, you're pretty much looking somewhere between 50 and 75 dollars. An introduction. And so from that standpoint, they serve a purpose to get started. But really, you shouldn't need them after, oh, 30 to 90 days. Because the way it works is when we get off this conversation and we stop recording here, Brad and I are going to talk and I'm going to ask him, hey, do you need any other guests? What are you looking for? And I'll try introducing him to some people I know, and then we'll probably talk and he'll say, you know, are you trying to get in any other shows? Because the podcast community is very interconnected. Hosts know hosts.

That's true.

So. So if you can get onto your first, I don't know, four to six podcasts, you should be able to get a dozen leads from that. And by leads, I mean introductions to other podcast hosts. And really, at that point, it should start just start growing organically.

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

And it's a much better way to get on shows because you know, Brad's not going to or is not going to suggest somebody that he knows that I wouldn't be a good fit for. So from that standpoint, is that reciprocity. I'd love to introduce you to some of my friends. You introduce me to your friends. So you know the introduction services. Yeah, it's not a bad way to go for the first 30 to 90 days. Where I am right now is I've got, you know, an assistant that works with me, because the great thing about this strategy is that you can outsource pretty much everything but the interview. So I've got an assistant that will reach out to various podcasts on my behalf to introduce me to, try to get on there. She'll set up all the coordination things that.

Diane.

It's Diane.

Yeah. So. And she did that with me. And this was. It was. What was smart, by the way, is when she emailed me originally, she did exactly what we were talking about. She said, you know, hey, by the way, hey, Brad, I hope you're well. You have a very memorable website and business name. I've listened to a little bit of your show, and I really like it. Like, she. She did that even as an assistant, that's important to do.

And she was such a pro at doing this. Not only getting me on shows, but getting me on the right shows. That's why I started to work with her exclusively. But then there's work afterwards, too. So anything that Brad and I talk about here, I'll put a welcome page together on my site. So if you go to tmshwab.com bacon all the things we talk about, the resources will be there. So I have an assistant, you know, do that. And then I've got an assistant that, once this episode goes live, you know, they're going to be tweeting it out every day for probably the first couple weeks, and then after that, probably twice a month for at least the next year.

Nice. Yeah, you just get it in the rotation. Yeah, that's good. That's great. And I definitely think that utilizing an assistant like that is. That's really valuable. I may want to even talk to you a little bit more about, you know, going down that angle, just personally, because I think that's really interesting. I do have an assistant. She doesn't do really any of those things for me, but I may. I may have to load some new tasks for her when we get off the phone. Two quick things on this. Number one, you said, where was I? At those brain farts. Oh. So number one, My opinion and why I said it's. I kind of. I have mixed opinions about using outside connectors for effectiveness because I will say there are some agencies that, you know, constantly contact me and they're like, hey, I've got, you know, this person. I think they'd be a good fit for your show. And they don't really care. They're just trying to, you know, they make money when they make a connection, and sometimes it's not a great person. And I have no problem whatsoever turning those people down going, yeah, thanks. Not really fit for my show because it's like rejecting, hey, my, my friend thinks you're cute. Like, okay, I don't think they're cute, so I don't have to reject that person. Nobody likes to be rejected, but nobody likes to reject others. And it's a lot harder for me to reject somebody who asks me personally to be on my show, especially if they do it correctly, with some flattery, etc. And I just, you know, that's what I recommend to people is do it, you know, do it as much as you can by yourself. Because it, to me, I think it's harder to be rejected or even ignored. Especially if you let me know that you're a listener, a fan, and want to be on the show, I'm much more likely to say yes. The. But you know, at the same time. So, you know, a lot of times the third party connections work. The other thing I was gonna say is you said, you know, the one thing you can't outsource is the interview. So I was toying around with this idea. This is just for fun. I was like, you know, it'd be great if you're doing a lot of interviews. Let's say you get a lot of. The more famous you are, the more necessary this is. But let's say you get a lot of questions that are the same. Like, okay, so tell me about your background. So what's your favorite? You know, tell me about a story where you time when you failed. Tell me about your biggest success. Like, I think it'd be cool to create a lot of almost like audio snippet answers, like a library of them of frequently asked questions. Like, you know, where I'm going. Like, let's just say 50 of them. Oh, here's an anecdote, here's a story, and then just let potential hosts build their own interview. I think it'd be great. Like, okay, I'm gonna ask this question. So I read it into the microphone and it records my voice. And then it puts Tom's answer right there. Like, and then.

And you would. You would end up on some comedy podcast because they would ask you one question and grab a snippet from another one. Where, where you can do this, though, is. So if you're a company and you've got different voices, you know, maybe there's one voice that's better for the male podcast. There's another one voice of the company that speaks more to your. Your female buyer Persona. That's a way you can definitely do it. Or you even see this with some companies where they've got a. A more mature speaker and, and a younger speaker. So you look at something like Dave Ramsey's organization. He's got his daughter that speaks to the younger people. He speaks to the older people. So there's things you can do there to really leverage it. But what's amazing is, you know, we've had business owners that will take 30, 45 minutes out of their day to do an interview. Yeah. And that's all that it really takes them. You know, if you prep them beforehand and give them the sheet and says, this is the background about the podcast, here's some questions they may ask you. It's very, you know, it's more of a performance for the chief executive than. Than it is a marketing chore.

Yeah, no, you're right. And that's, That's a really important thing to, to kind of get across, and especially if you're. If you're. Because there's two types of probably people who are going to be. Think about being podcast guests. And these are. One is like solo entrepreneurs and professionals, people just doing their own thing and they're building their personal brand and they want to get out there. But you just said something really good. Like if you're a business and you're not really, you know, your business doesn't necessarily have a face, but, you know, you're behind the scenes. You're the CEO, but you're running it. Maybe you're selling a physical product or a service or something like that, but you can, you can tailor, you know, different people for different shows and, you know, have different angles. But it can be really, you know, powerful as well as letting people know, especially if it's a real business. And if that business has listeners who, I'm sorry, customers who may be great listeners, letting them know, look, we like to share this stuff with our customers. We are going to send this out in our newsletter where you featured us, and hopefully you'll get some great. What do you call them, you'll get some great listeners from this, etc. I think it's just an all around. It's a I scratch your back, you scratch my back universe. And it's cool because we're all trying to help each other out.

And the thing is, is that if you pick the right markets and the right podcasts, they're as excited to have you on as you are to be on there. So we've worked with a company that was doing a crowdfunding and, you know, momentum is so important with that.

Oh, yeah.

You know, you can decide in the first three days whether or not it's going to work. So it was more of an environmental company that was doing something that was very green. So they went out and they got on, I think it was 18 podcasts, and asked all the hosts, hey, can you release these on these few days? They just had like a huge, you know, bump with that. Authors that are trying to release a book can do the same thing, sort of that virtual book tour and go through there without all the travel and the expense with that. And then there's some other ones that, you know, like coaches that maybe if they've got a new program, they'll do a big push. But more, more often they just want that steady flow of leads coming in or speakers trying to keep their name out there. There's so many ways you can do it. You know, if your customers are listening to podcasts, you can talk to them.

Yeah, that's great. So any other. Any other great strategies that you've used or that you kind of really think that event, man, this is. This makes for a great. Whether it was a case study of, you know, success for you or for any of your clients that you want to share.

Sure. One of the clients that I'm most excited about is Matt Miller over at school, Spirit Vending. And it. They just became a franchisor. So they were looking to get people signed up to be partners with them. And he tells the story that he was on about 20 podcasts and never really got any results from it. 20 podcasts and he probably got less than five leads. We worked with them and talked to him about, you've got to, you know, give an offer, give something for people to come back to your site to go from being listeners to being visitors and then leads. And within 30 days he got 50 leads out of that. And these weren't leads of just people signing up. These are people that, you know, want to pay $10,000 to become a franchisee. So the system works. And, you know, my, I always say my first job out of college was running the nuclear power plant. And it was easier than running a small business because it was a manual with it. What we've done with this is really just put a system. And so if you go through all of the steps, you can only, not only get on podcasts, but you can take people from being listeners to visitors to leads, and it's something that anybody can do. It just takes a little bit of sweat equity and some time. It's not something that like Facebook ads, where you've got to have a big marketing budget for it too.

Right. And there's a bunch of things you can do along with this too. So this is just part of an entire inbound marketing strategy, am I right?

That's correct. Because all you're trying to do is, you know, marketing is starting a conversation with somebody that could be an ideal customer.

Yeah.

So you're just doing it, breaking through the noise by being a podcast guest. And really you're sort of hacking it because, you know, Brad's doing all the hard work here and I'm getting the benefit of it and I'm able to tap into all kinds of different audiences. So while there's some overlap in maybe podcasts, chances are you're tapping into a new audience every time you talk. Whereas if you've got your own podcast, which is a great strategy too, you'll always be talking to those same people.

Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. And I actually think it's a, it's a good idea to do both, you know, worst case scenario in this, you know, most people don't even think about this, but you, you quite literally could create your own podcast using nothing but the audios from your previous, from your previous interviews. In fact, I've had people ask me because I've interviewed them and I've put the, the audio on my show and they said, hey, can I take that, that MP3? And also just put it like, you know, I've got a show and can I just put it on there? And I'll, I'll do a quick little intro says, hey, by the way, you're about to listen to me being interviewed on Bacon Wrap Business with Brad Costanzo, and I'm just going to go ahead and play that interview for you here and you can always subscribe to it over here. But so in essence, I don't care because it's not like a Google duplicate content penalty.

My.

You know, I get exposure on their podcast and Mine. So you quite literally could, with the host permission, just like you, like you personally, could take all the 70 interviews you've done and just take those MP3s, with their permission and start your own podcast all about you. Now, your own podcast, it might get boring because it's just you telling a lot of the same stories over and over, but it can be done even with a few of them. And just having your own podcast can lead to be on other podcasts, etc. So that's a whole nother story for a whole other time, but really powerful.

Yeah. The way you can repurpose this content is amazing. You know, we've even done it before where have a good interview and run it through an app like Rev.com and get it dictated for, you know, or printed out for a dollar a minute. And, man, now you've got blog contents. You can pull different things out of there for tweets, you know, One of my best testimonials on my site came from an interview where we were talking about something, and the host, Alex Harris from Marketing Optimization, you know, made a great comment, and when we finished, I'm like, can I use that snippet? He's like, of course. You know, and he just wants people to hear him. He doesn't care where it is.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So tell me, Tom, what's a. What's a nut you're trying to crack in your business right now? What's. I mean, obviously getting more exposure, but is there any. Are there any people you're trying to meet, resources you're trying to gather, skills you're trying to develop? Anything that either myself or my listeners could potentially, you know, this is where we get to kind of help you.

Yeah. What I am struggling with right now most is that answering people's question of how do I get on a podcast? You know, and that is the easy answer, and I can answer that, but just getting on a podcast will not get your results. So with that, I'm trying to give them the answer that they want, but then show them what they need to. That, you know, you have to define who you want to talk to first so you're on the right podcast and then having a system so that once you get on a podcast, you can take people from being listeners to visitors to your site, and then to leads. So I think it's overall an education process here of showing people that they don't have to have their own podcast if they don't want to, that they don't have to keep blogging all the time. But you know, the truth is, is that their customers are going to be listening to podcasts and they're going to be listening to either them or someone else. So I'm just, I'm trying to get the evangelizing out there and show people how this can be done. Because I think as we get better podcast hosts and we've definitely seen the medium and the art form increasing, we also need to get better podcast guests.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Could I. I definitely can't agree with you more on that. Cool, so now you've got over it. Over it is it TM Schwab? S A S C H W A B dot com is your main website, but setting up a. A page for all our listeners@tmshwab.com forward/bacon with a lot of different notes and goodies and stuff over there. I've been playing around on your website and looking through it. You gotta ton of resources. This is great. You even have, you know, you even have a course for people if they want to kind of go down this path even more and say, I think, I think this is something I could really get behind. I like talking and I want to. This is just the tip of the iceberg, really. So, you know, yeah, on there there's.

You know, the different things that we talked about here. There's an infographic on the six steps to grow your business as a podcast guest.

That's great.

There's a 30 minute webinar, a training that you can go through on there. And then if you want all the resources that we use, the checklist, the database of different podcasts, and then there's seven separate videos that take you through each step. You can take the course there too.

But where's your database? I'm on your site right now.

The database is part of the course.

Oh, cool.

We've got, you know, as we learn more and more podcast guests and get out there, there's 186,000 podcasts. We've only got a database of 500 so far, but they're all, they're all quality ones.

Yeah. That's awesome. Well, I love it. So, Tom, is there anything else I can, you know, I can do for you? Obviously, I'm happy to make any introductions to fellow podcast hosts that you may not have been on. And if there's anybody you know, you know, or suggest, I'm always happy to take guest referrals as well.

Oh, definitely. I'll definitely introduce you to a couple people through Email. And if there's anybody that, you know, you think I could add value to their podcast and their audience, that's great. And then I would just say that, you know, anybody that has any questions or wants to connect with me, you know, find me on LinkedIn. Just, I'm the only Tom Schwab in Kalamazoo and I really, I really believe that's what's ordinary to you, is amazing to others. And it was Derek Sivers who first said that. But this cross pollination of ideas is so great. You know, just the conversation we have here. I got two or three pearls of like, oh, I've got to change that in the way I teach people how to, how to pitch themselves.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's always good to, yeah, get both, both of the perspectives.

Yeah, we've got, you know, in, in, in the course too. There's a checklist of everything you need to do for a podcast interview. Everything you need to check. And I tell you what, that comes from the community going, this one time, this happened to me and it's like, oh, we got to add that to the checklist. So there's no need for us to, to make our mistakes ourselves. Just learn from each other and we can all do this better.

I love it. So, folks, go over to tmshwab.com bacon, check out the site, take a look and see what Tom's got for you there. It's not up yet as a moment of this conversation, but I know it will be by the time we go live. And if this has been really interesting, you know, go, go down that rabbit hole and see what else Tom can do. And then, Tom, is there a good way for people to get a hold of you? Is it on your website? Is there an email address you want to.

You can come through the website or go through LinkedIn and just find me Tom Schwab in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

Very nice. All right, so if you've enjoyed this show, do something that Tom gave a little suggestion to in the very beginning. Review bacon wrap business on itunes, share it on social media and tell your friends about it. Subscribe if you're not a subscriber and jump on the newsletter if you're not already on it. I don't send out a lot of emails, you know, busy running my various other businesses, but I do let you know of, you know, the show, you know, the upcoming shows, as well as pre release of the audios of the new interviews. And I do a lot of specific trainings and webinars and you know, just free classes for folks that, you know, I just don't do and don't really talk about on the podcast. Now there is also something that you as listeners can do for. For me, I am in the process of doing some hiring, both some internships and paid positions, looking for some experts in social media management as well as for writing and content creation and curation. This actually not for bacon wrap business, but for another business that I have. If you or anybody you know is interested in potentially working with me, just send me an email with your resume and some information to ask bradbaconwrappedbusiness.com and forward that on. You know, forward this on to anybody else you might know or if it's you. That's cool. But you know, one of the kind of cool parts is I get to ask my listeners if this is something that resonates with you and you kind of want to see where this goes, let me know once more. Send me an email about that or really about anything else to ask bradbaconrappbusiness.com Tom, I really appreciate your time today, man. It's been really, really fruitful. I like it.

Thank you, Brad. And I hope your audience takes action on this.

Yeah, me too. All right, guys, have a great day. Tom, you too. And I will see you on the next episode.