How to Ride The Wave Of Consumer Demand with Mike Michalowicz

Welcome back to Bacon Wrap Business. This is Brad and I am bringing back a former guest on the show today, Mike Michalowicz. And if you listened to the episode we did a few months ago, it was called Profit first and Mike is the actual author of a book called Profit First. And it's really one of my favorite episodes because I learned so much and it was forehead slapping simple. Like, oh my God, this is exactly the way that business owners should kind of handle their finances, their accounting. And even though that may sound dry to some people thinking about accounting and finance, this is definitely not a dry episode. So if you have not heard Mike before, I definitely recommend that you go back after today's episode and listen to that. But today I've asked him back because he's written a brand new book and he's got some new and unique insights that I want to share with you. So I'll bring him on in just a second. But by the way, if you are a longtime listener and you are back again, I want to welcome you. Virtual fist bump to you. And if you are brand new and this is your first time stumbling over the show, I want to encourage you to first of all hit the subscribe button if you're listening on itunes so you don't miss an episode. I also want you to sign up for the newsletter on baconratbusiness.com I share some things there that I don't share with the podcast listeners and audiences. And if you you like my ramblings and musings, I think you're absolutely going to love the newsletter as well. By the way, on the last episode I asked people to send in a book recommendation or a book that has really kind of been impactful for them. And my listener Mike actually sent in one. I just thought I'd bring it up because it was a great book. It made me go reread it. There was a lot of responses I got, but it was called Free. I think it's something by Was it Chris Anderson? Something about free something. The Future of a Radical Price. So it explores all the different ways that you can add a freemium model or the ways that you can use free in your business. Now that's a recommendation. I've read it before, loved hearing about it again. And if you have another book recommendation that you would like to share with me, share that. Just AskBradBaconrappBusiness.com Just Shoot Me an email, tell me what book you'd recommend, especially if it's nonfiction or business related, that's had an Impact on you. Maybe I'll mention it on the show. And speaking of books, let's dive into today's guest and talk about his book. Mike, are you on the line with me?

I am here. Cool, man.

It's cool to have you back. As I said, I really, really enjoyed your last episode. It was eye opening and I got a ton of great feedback from it.

Thank you. It was fun. I had a blasting around a little bit too cool conversation.

So tell me about what you've been up to in these past few months. You've obviously been busy writing.

Yeah, yeah, it's really been the last two years. And in the last few months, it's become now just all in craziness. So I was approached by a reader of my other books. And you start off with a very nice comment saying, I love your books. And then there was a but if all my books are of no value. And they said, in fact, most books have no value. If you can't be in the right place at the right time in business, they said, you know, I can take my profit first, I can do everything, expand it. But if I'm in the typewriter business, it ain't really going to happen. I got to be where people need me when they need me. And that kind of sat in my mind for quite a period of time. And then starting about two years ago, the moment clicked. I was actually at the beach and watching Surfer. I don't Surfer. I was watching surfers and just watching how they were timing waves. I saw the waves as consumer demand, how it rolls through marketplaces. And then saying, huh, maybe there's something here to learn from surfers. That's what I did. The last two months in particular, I've been putting the final touches on and getting ready to promote Surge, My newest book, which is about timing the marketplace.

I love your cover, by the way. I'm on the Amazon listing. Surge time, the marketplace. Ride the wave of consumer demand and become your trees. Big kahuna.

That looks really cool.

Yeah.

That cover, the. The first person I saw it, Brad with that was a surfer said, you know, surfers don't go on top of waves. They supposed to go pocket. And I'm like, I totally get it. This is an artistic.

Does it make a good book cover? I like it.

Yeah. To have a surfer under the wave get it looks like they're getting crushed by the wave is not so appealing.

Right. I love it. So. So let's talk about timing the market. And I mean, so I've not read the book Yet. I will, however. But is it kind of about identifying consumer, like new trends, or is it about what, you know? Tell me more. I don't want. I don't want to guess. Give me the.

So it's specifically about what's called imminent trends. And actually Surge is more than just the name of the book. It's actually an acronym. S U, R, G E are the five steps that I studied all types of businesses. I met with Brian Smith, the founder of ugg, to chef Dominic Ansel. He was the inventor of the Cronut and tons of businesses. Yeah, he was awesome. And all the businesses in between and tried to figure out what's the pattern they follow. Well, they all are seeking and positioning themselves in front of what are called imminent waves. And what happens in the surfing community. If you watch surfers out in the ocean, they aren't looking for waves that are way out, you know, a mile or two out in the water. They're looking for what's immediately upon them. Waves typically come in sets, so there's like three or four waves, but they're evaluating the options in front of them that are about to hit them. And they may decide that none of the waves are adequate or they may decide one of the waves is the best of the set. Now, they only target one wave, of course, no one's ever in the world history surfed two waves simultaneously. So they pick the one wave and then they start paddling in front of it. And in business, as I'm starting to talk about this book, I can't tell you, Brad, how many people are coming to me saying, well, what's the next big trend.

In the future? What's the lottery numbers?

Yeah, you're right. But my answer is there's hundreds of them. There's millions of them, in fact. It's not the massive trends we're looking for, like mobile technologies can be replaced by teleporting. No, it's. It's in small categories in the yarn industry, there's trends going on. In guitars, there's trends in consulting, there's trends.

But there's a huge trend in coffee right now, by the way.

Coffee.

Have you heard about that?

It's going toward, like footwear. It's. Yes, like stiletto type of edginess. Yeah. But even yet in the coffee industry, there's trends going on. So we have to pick a segment, an area to look at. It's kind of like surfers pick a cove. We got to pick a segment and then investigate in there what's going on. Exactly.

I like it. So what were some of the biggest revelations that you had? Well, first of all, I want to hear what the SURGE acronym means. And then I want to hear some of the biggest revelations you had and give some epiphanies to myself, the audience, like, oh, crap, that's kind of cool. Like, why is your book need to know as opposed to nice to know? By the way, one of the things that. So I don't forget it because I definitely wanted to hit on this. You just touched on something really important about surfing. And if you're in business and you're a true entrepreneur, you have no shortage of opportunities. And usually if you take every opportunity, which I've absolutely been guilty of in the past, then you just find yourself completely struggling. It's knowing which waves to say yes to, which waves to say no to. So not to ruin your epiphany moment for me, but give me either another epiphany what SURGE means, and make my listeners go, oh, damn, I gotta read that.

Okay, so here's the oh, damn. So let me tell you what SURGE stands for. S stands for separate. So before you pick an imminent trend wave, you got to pick the COVID You're surfing in that small community. This is the niche selection. Most people skip this phase. They say, what's the next big trend? And don't consider for who. So identify the who first. U stands for unify, Unifi. In the surfing arena is when a wave starts coming, you paddle in front of it. You don't wait till the wave has passed you and try to paddle and catch up. Which, by the way, most businesses do. They say, oh, my God, look, everyone jumped on that trend. I'm going to try to do it now. Sorry, too late. So you got to unify with the waves speed and direction. And in business, once you identify the community, you got to start investigating that community. What is the challenge they're facing collectively? Where are they moving toward? And how do you start paddling in front of it? R stands for rally cry in surfing. There's a moment in surfing, and I've never surfed myself. So this is from. I've learned from all the surfers I interviewed that the board starts to lift out of the water. You're paddling in front of it now the wave is upon you. It actually lifts you up, and there's a transfer of energy from you, expending energy, paddling to the wave, giving you the energy. It pushes you. And there's this phenomena happens in business, too, and it's around the rally cry. Once you get the early adopters that you've unified with your delivering as early goods, if the community rallies around you, starts carrying your message for you, that's when the wave starts lifting you. And it's a fascinating phenomena. And by the way, I didn't just write about this. The second I learned, I started experimenting. My business partner and I, we started a new business around this methodology. It's working. It's called Profit First Professional.

Oh, yeah, I've heard of that. Yeah, I've looked into that from the last show.

Yeah, yeah. So when I made Profit first, we started Profit First Professionals. But I was already studying the phenomena of surge and we employed it. And there's this moment where the community starts carrying you. They're promoting you, they're talking about it, and they become your best marketing force. It's an interesting shift because the market effort, the tremendous effort to get the word out now fades away very quickly as a tremendous effort needs to go to perfecting what you deliver. And that's the next stage. G stands for gather. There's a constant gathering of knowledge. Surfers in the ocean are constantly looking for what's called the pocket. They're on the wave now, it's carrying them, but they have to get to the energy of the wave in the center. In business, once you get the early adopters carrying you, rallying around you, you need to constantly perfect your product or service to match what they need. They'll love you. Initially, everyone loves Tesla now. Until someone smokes Tesla and the whole game may shift. So we have to be gathering the knowledge. This is the part where you can't get lazy, but you have to realize your energy has also shifted from trying to get up on the wave to now actually balancing on the wave. And in the final stage, and it truly is, the final stage, is expansion. This is. Once you've perfected this initial formula, how do you expand it out? Where do you go into other markets that need the same service solution that you can deliver to them? When this is. We're talking about the analogy of riding a wave. This is the carving, kickbacks, flips, all the different tricks you can do on waves. You don't start by doing the tricks. You step the wave and get to the pocket first. Same thing with business.

That reminds me when I was having a conversation about something very similar regarding the book Four Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss. Right. It was the book that kind of turned me on to the whole idea of online marketing. And it's that people don't realize that you don't get to a point where you can work four hours a week by starting off working four hours a week. That's the result of the four hour sleep week.

Yes.

I was going to ask him if I could write a. Can I write the sequel to that book?

Yeah, that four Hours sleep week. I did a TV show with Tim just when he was. That book was launched. It was called the Big Idea with Donnie.

Oh, Donnie. That's so funny. But go ahead.

Oh. So I meet him in the green room. We're both about to go on air together. And I said, hey, I heard about your book Four Hour Workweek. I just started reading it. I'm like, how long you been living this way? He's like, I'm not living that way yet. I'm working my ass off right now to promote it and build it. He goes, but this is the vision of what's truly possible. So even the guy who kind of created that system, he wasn't there yet. He had to do the four sleep hour week first.

Right? Exactly. By the way, that is funny that you mentioned Donnie, because I don't remember. By the way, I used to love the big idea. I was so bummed when it went off. But I love Donnie. I love that. And I don't remember why. I googled him. Just like, I think it was this week or last week or whatever, but I googled him. I was like, what's Donny Deutsch doing now? Like, what is he up to? I guess he may have some reality show or. He did or something.

I thought he did.

Yeah, something like that. But. And I think I also. I may have been even been thinking, like, man, it would be really cool to get Donny Deutsch on my show. Like, that would be really awesome. And then I saw that he was on another friend of mine's podcast recently. I don't remember who it was, if it was Lewis Howes or Artistry.

Oh, yeah, yeah, something.

But it's just funny that you just brought that up because this was like, top of mind, and I hadn't thought about him in years. But.

Sorry, that show. Well, that show was, I thought, a life changer. I thought was the best show for entrepreneurship ever.

Oh, I like it so much better than I like Shark Tank, but I like. I liked it way better.

Me too. Me too. It's a shame it went away and. And it didn't even go away cleanly. It kind of fizzled out to weird stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it was too bad.

Interesting. So okay, so I love search, and I've actually, let's. So let's use that. So my audience does hear me talking about stiletto coffee, which is. If they haven't heard me talking about it, it is my wife and my company. But, you know, it's a new brand of coffee marketed towards women. And so as you were reading this off, I started to see where I kind of fit in. So we selected a market that we wanted to be in, which was coffee. And there are some cool things happening in coffee. There's a lot of big transits. It's definitely not going away. It's a. You know, there's a steady set of waves coming in. But I noticed that one of the things that nobody had been doing was marketing their coffee directly towards a demographic. We're really the first that in the industry that I know of saying we're not just trying to sell amazing coffee beans and talking about our beans. Our beans are amazing, and the roasts are out of this world. But we're talking about the type of person who would buy our product as opposed to talking about ourselves. So we're talking about them. So we selected that. We're like, okay, we think there's a trend here. We don't know, but we found a way. We selected it, then we started to paddle in front of it. If we're the only ones doing it, we got to act quick. From idea to launch was like two or three months. What's the next one? The R. The rally cry. So I guess this is because we're now going through our first set of customers and repeat orders, and we're trying to build the ones who really, really love us, the brand ambassadors and the whatnot. I guess we're in that stage right now.

Yeah. Here's the big tip around that is when they start saying the why, why, they buy your product not because it's good coffee, not because it spoke to them, but the why. That's when the rally cry starts elevating you. In our own business with profit first professionals. When we started hearing bookkeepers and accountants, the folks we target, saying, we're eradicating entrepreneurial poverty. This is why I do it. I was like, aha.

So you didn't come up with that? Because I loved that line.

Yeah. Our community did. And we've adopted. And they said, this is why we exist, to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. And they're like, yeah. And now it's become our mission statement and our filter.

I love that. And I. And it's also some Advice that I do give to my clients, which is if you're looking for your unique selling proposition, if you're looking for a tagline, if you're looking for that, ask the customers, hey, why did you buy from us? So I love the fact that you said that because it's absolutely, you know, there's more gold in there. And as a tip for any of my business owner listeners, and by the way, you can do this. I don't know if this would help you. I've done this for a client and I've mined some amazing gold, which is right after somebody purchases your product on your webpage, especially if it's like a membership site or software, before they log in. I put a two question survey and the first question is just a soft one, which is, hey, before you log in or whatever, where did you hear about us? Just, you know, find out from them if it was a referral of somewhere else. Number two, why did you decide to make this purchase today? Or why did you decide to make this investment in yourself today? And I've gotten so much great stuff because you're getting the people at the, that emotional state, like right when they're purchasing. And I'll use that in sales copy and email subject lines or whatever. So I love the fact that you brought that up.

Yeah. Thank you. It becomes the ultimate filter. So when we talk now with new prospective clientele and we say we're here to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty, or they see it on our website, it either appeals them or it repulses them. Right. Some people are like, what the hell does that mean? I don't even get it. Well, we're not going to be a fit here. And for everyone else it's like, oh, I get it. And it connects. It's ironic that our own early adopters who came up with the term have become the ultimate filter. They set the standard. We're allowing our community to form into a culture. That's what the rally cry is all about. This phase of business, where can you get your clientele really so steeped in your culture that they're actually helping define future clients?

Okay, I like that. I like that a lot. And that's. That is one of the things we don't even like officially have a brand ambassador program, although that's coming. But I'm definitely. So you've given me that. Oh, damn. This is why I need to read this book. Because it's actually, I'm in the middle, like I'm, you know, that trying to get that rally Cry trying to find out if this wave is going to be big enough for us to surf. In trying to figure it out, it's that most tumultuous point.

Yes.

And the nice part is, and I've said this, is I will either earn a lot or learn a lot, but I do know that there's always another wave coming in, no matter what. So this is really, really cool. Now, were there any other big epiphanies that you had in writing the book and researching and talking to other business owners or professionals?

There was, there was. So I'll give a couple. I'll give one very specific. And then I want to share the story of Brian Smith, the founder of bug. The specific one is to identify a new wave. There was one common theme that came up with every business I interviewed. Whenever their clientele, the people they were targeting, were experiencing something that was traditional, that was inevitably a trigger for a new wave. So when the, you know, the traditional way that accounting is done means that there's a new way of accounting happening, that's what's happening now in the accounting space. What I'm very familiar with now, the traditional way to write a letter was on a typewriter. Well, when that became traditional, it got replaced by computers and keyboards, which are now traditional, which, by the way, points to the next wave. Music traditionally was on LPs, which traditionally then was on CDs, which traditionally were on MP3s. And that means because MP3s are becoming now the traditional way to listen to music, indicative that a new wave is coming in. So I thought that was fascinating. But what I really love was the discussion with Brian Smith, the founder of ugg, because, and I share him throughout the entire book. I keep touching on his story because every element, these five steps he was in. So his quick story, the separate phase he starts. A lot of people think he's just targeted the fashion market. He was going after teenage girls. No, he was targeting surfers. California surfers. Yeah. And exclusively. Exclusively. And so a lot of people don't know the UGG is a surfing shoe or boot. And what he did in the Unified. So first he identifies that community, he starts observing them. He noticed something in the Unify phase I thought was fascinating. In 1979, when Ugg started, Brian Smith was down in the California surf spots watching surfers. And something interesting was happening in the industry year round. Surfing was coming about because neoprene had been advanced enough now that the suits could be small enough and flexible enough that you could surf in neoprene suits. And Stay warm in the cold ocean in the winter. And that meant surfers were coming in off the beach with freezing cold feet. They were still barefoot and winter out there. But when they're on the beach now, they're wrapping it in towels and blankets or trying to stick it near a fire to get warm. It was very uncomfortable to be out of the water with a neoprene suit. And that was the aha. There was surfers unifying around a challenge, warm feet. And so they were doing all these different things. He said, I can paddle in front of this and provide a solution. He brought UGG to to the US to these surfers. It was a bizarre design, but was specifically designed for them. It uses shearling, which is a material from sheep that does not collect bacteria, so there's no odor. It was the reason it's calf high. The boots isn't because it was a boot. It's because when you walk down the beach, sand kicks up and that's the right height to have a boot, so the sand can't get into it, so you don't get all GR and with your feet. So. And there's always different little elements that speak to the surfer. That became the rally cry. The rally cry of UGG was no cold feet when you're surfing like that was literally the rally cry. And the most committed early adopter surfer said, yeah, man, I want to surf year round. I'll keep my feet warm. Then over time, he gathered more knowledge. He perfected the product. He spoke more and more to his community. And then he went for the final phase, which is e expansion, expanding it out. And this is what blew my mind away. He figured out the formula. The first four stages on the California Surfer. Get the pros and the semi pro people wearing your products because they're the coolest of the cool. And other people see him wearing these products, they're going to do the same. So that's what he started doing. And then he said to himself, who else has cold feet? And semi pro and pro athletes? He said, well, hockey players do. So he went to the hockey community dominated. Hunters do dominate it, skiers do dominated it did all this stuff. It was only when the company was doing. I mean, I think it's 50 to 100 million dollars. Do you then go for the most massive market was now a fashion statement. And he went after the semi pros, if you will, in the teenage girl space, which was like Brooke Shields at the time and Britney Spears and got them wearing the shoes and then the rest is history.

That's hilarious. I love this because I literally never knew knew any of that. And I only thought of like little girls wearing Uggs and like, huh. I never thought it was an athletic. It's like for athletes.

It's for athletes. Now here's the funniest part. Brian Smith is seen as a sellout. So you will not catch a surfer. They will wear dent. Yeah, I mean there was one surfer I found who's a pro who still wears them because they're perfect. But he's a sellout. He doesn't cater to them anymore. And that's the funny thing about this final stage and surge, the expansion. You have to make a decision. Do you really want to expand and are you willing to compromise the initial group that carried you? And it seems like from everything I studied that's a mandatory decision. I studied bands. One of my favorite bands in the 80s, Def Leppard. I love them. I loved High and Dry Pyramid, all the early albums. Then comes out album called Hysteria and I'm like, holy crap, they suck. Now they've sold out, they've gone top 40. If I have to hear any more ballads, I'm going to shoot myself. And so I'm the zitty teenage kid who loves them and will do anything to see a Def Leppard concert. And then they went through the expansion phase, which from their vantage point I think is very smart. Those guys are very wealthy now and I'm very happy. But for me, I can't stand them.

Yeah.

And that's what's going to happen. This happened with Apple. We loved Apple until they finally beat Microsoft. And now there's a faction of people say God, Apple's this juggernaut, we hate them. So just be aware of that risk when you go into expansion.

That's hilarious. It's so true. I love the insights on this. Now are you, are you using this in your like or where are you using this in your own business? In your own stuff? Like where are you finding yourself?

Yeah, so I too am in the early stages and this is for profit first Professional professionals. Yeah, yeah. I also own a manufacturing. I'm a co owner in a manufacturing business but manufacture.

Just out of curiosity.

Oh, leather. Leather sheaths. The company's called Hedgehog Leather Works. Oh cool. So we make sheets for. For Bushcraft type knives and stuff. But in profit first professionals we, we too are in the rally phase. Kind of like where you are with Stiletto that we've identified our group. It's very clear who we're going after. It's very clear that the community has unified around a specific problem they're trying to solve. Software is getting so sophisticated in accounting that your accounting software within the next five years will eradicate the need for an accountant or a bookkeeper. All that stuff will be replaced. It's so getting so sophisticated. So accountants and bookkeepers are being squeezed out now, just like taxicab drivers and Uber. Most taxicab drivers still don't get that they're being destroyed. That's true in every industry. Most accountants and bookkeepers don't see it yet, but the early adopters are, and they are starting to rally around our solution and other solutions too, from different vantage points. But our solution now we're trying to facilitate that rally cry and our real momentum will happen when the mass market kind of starts being forced to change. Right now it's only the earliest adopters. Accountants and bookkeepers are still very much in need. But we think within five years there's going to be a massive push. And the question is, over the next five years, are we going to be strong enough, have enough balance on this wave, if you will, to really ride the momentum of that phase?

Oh, that's awesome. Now would you say that the best people, I mean, I can see that the best people, like any entrepreneur, any business owner, really should read this to a know where they're at. I think that's one of the most important things that people don't know. They don't assess. Where am I in the. In the stage. But also I would think anybody interested in product development and like in physical products and looking for that stuff would absolutely eat this book up, right?

Yeah, for sure. If you've read a book like Lean Startup, where you're in the iterative stage, Surge is how it plays out in the longer run. Surge is the roadmap for the Uggs of the world that took 10 or 15 years to achieve billion dollar status. But it's also the book that talks about chef Dominic Ansel, the guy who founded the Cronut. It's not necessarily about going big, it's going about big on your vision. And so this guy, he makes the Cronut. I don't know if you hear of the Cronut by any chance.

Yeah, explain to my listeners though, because they may not know.

All right, so the Cronut is a blend of a doughnut and a croissant. He comes across this invention about seven years ago in his one bakery in New York. Explodes. Explodes in popularity. There's worldwide demand for it, almost Overnight, he got perfectly in front of the foodie, especially dessert foodie trend wave, and people are flocking to him. He gets approached by venture capital, other folks saying, why don't you expand this out? Why don't you open 100 bakeries? We'll make all these cron up bakeries. And he made the decision, no, that's not me. It's not who I am. And he stuck with One bakery today, five, six years later, whatever, he still has a line of 100 people at his bakery before it opens every single morning. Flying in from all throughout the world to visit New York City and visit his bakery specifically. We have the right to define what the outcome is of our business. We can let the right size find us. We don't have to say it has to be huge and colossal. I did Donald Trump. They're huge.

It's a huge.

It doesn't need to be huge. It can be your definition in the expansion phase. So I think any business regards. You're looking to go big or big version of your own vision. I think surge applies to you. The only thing it doesn't apply to is if you're in a lifestyle business. Meaning I don't ever want to expand or scale. I don't want to be the industry authority. I like where I am. And there's a lot of people that are like that. That's cool. That's probably the only group that the book does not really apply to.

Nice. This also makes me really think of one, one of the other. A friend of mine and one of my other podcast guests. Actually, the most downloaded episode that I have on the show is with a guy named Stephen Key and he's the author of a book, One Simple Idea. He is an expert.

Oh, yeah, yeah, I know him.

Do you know him?

Yeah, yeah, we did. I did the big idea Deutsche was Stephen Key.

Oh, really?

Yeah, I was. I appeared in that show so many times.

That's so cool because.

Well, I think in part because I was in New Jersey. New Jersey. So I was always. They called me Last Man Charlie. If they couldn't find someone. Yeah, listen, I'm a media whore. I'll take it anytime.

I love it. It made me think of Steven because I have a background in licensing. I love licensing. And it's such kind of a cool way. People don't really understand it and when they do, they realize that when you do have an idea, if you can get in front of the wave and start paddling, et cetera, sometimes it's really intimidating to start manufacture get all that stuff going. But oftentimes, if you can make an improvement to a product that doesn't that exists and create something, license it to a much bigger company, you can probably paddle even much faster. This is not a conversation about licensing, but it just really made me think that because being able to capitalize on those waves and those opportunities before everybody else gets their boards in the water or and gets to it is critical. Speed. Money loves speed.

They say, yeah, that's the key. So when as I was researching this book, what I found out in this unify stage, in the rally stage, where we're paddling in front of the wave, when the wave starts to carry us, when the momentum is carrying us, what's happening, the phenomena is there's more demand than there is supply. So people are coming to you because a, they don't have an alternative and they're to forced where you're talked about a lot. The market starts marketing you and they will be tolerant of an inferior solution at that stage because you're the only option. You're only choice in town. So if your product's not perfect or your solution isn't 100%, that's okay. This points back to Eric Reese's book in Lean Startup, this is the minimum viable product you can get by for a period of time not being perfect. But as the wave starts to grow now more of the surfers out there can see it saying, oh my God, it's big. It's getting big. I want to hop on that wave. And they'll try to steal the wave from you. And that's actually a term called stealing waves. Surfer. The pro surfers or the jerk servers will cut in front of you and take your way from you. In business, it's much more competitive. People will intentionally do this, jerk or not, and then the wave of demand won't be as tolerant of inferiority. So it's in that unifying kind of rally stage as the wave starts picking us up, that while our marketing efforts decrease because we're just so. People are so aware of us because we're one of the few available, we actually have to redirect that energy very quickly. You cannot be complacent here and say, oh, everything's working perfectly. They love us. Look, they're coming to us. We don't need to do anything. Quite the opposite. You actually need to react, really improve the product at this phase in order to stay on that wave when it really starts peaking.

Yeah. And that's great.

Yeah.

You can't rest on your laurels and think, eh, we're good. Look at us.

By the way, I wrote the book. I freaking started making that mistake with Profit First Professionals. We started getting so much momentum. I was like, oh my God, we got the solution perfectly nailed down. Clearly. I even did in that voice. Clearly. And people started fading out saying the solution isn't right. And like, oh my God. So we redirected our efforts on improving the solution.

That's awesome.

Even though I preach about it, I still screw it up.

Exactly. The book is being well received so far. How long has it been out?

Yeah, well, what I'm doing is something that's atypical. The print version is coming out June 20th. The electronic versions are already out. And yes, well received. Meaning the initial reviews are going up, people are posting about. I'm getting nice feedback. Yeah, well received. But I think part of it too is that the book plays into the series. So this is my fourth book, and each book kind of has a spin off or a compliment off of the preceding book. So I think partly I'm blessed that I do have a certain number of folks that have read multiple of my past books and this becomes a natural kind of plugin. It's a standalone book for sure, but it's a natural plugin for a lot of my past readers. So I think the early readers of my book are just awfully gracious because they've read my past books, too.

Yeah, no, that's really, really cool. I literally just clicked buy on Kindle. Yeah. So I'll buy it, give you a nice little review, and suggest that everybody else checks it out. I think it's really, really cool. You've given me some insight and I love being able to kind of not just insight, but perspective. Because whenever you're able to assess where you're at and get perspective on your business or your life, it allows you to know what to do. Because as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, as anybody, really, there's so many things we can be doing. We're being pulled in a million different ways. Do this, do this, do this. There's a million marketing tactics. I know that. I've got an entire, entire database filled with marketing tactics that I want to do for the coffee business. But I have to assess, well, where am I? What's appropriate now, what's appropriate later and filtered out. And without knowing where I'm at in the process, I can't possibly pick the things that are going to work the best for me. And at the same time, I am an idea whore. I love ideas. They're my favorite thing. I actually get jealous of people who complain about, man, I don't have that many ideas. If I had a couple less, I'd have a little more sleep.

There you go.

Yeah, but I love this kind of stuff and I love knowing that kind of a way to gauge the ideas and a way to even create new ones and new, better ideas because there's a lot of bad ones. So just kind of replugging your other stuff. Like the Profit First Professionals is a place that folks can find resources that tie into the book. Profit first, which is definitely a must read. As well as your other book, the Pumpkin Plan. Toilet Paper Entrepreneur. You've written how many books now? Four or five?

Yeah, four books now. And Profit First. I'm going to do expanded edition with Penguin Books. We're working on it together right now.

Did you self publish the first one or did you?

Yeah, I self published Profit at first.

And then they came along and said, hey, let's do something.

Yeah, well they. Yeah, yeah. It's funny how that process works. So the Pumpkin Plan is published through Penguin Books. I self published Profit first and then they came back and said, well, we really want that book. And now they're talking about buying Surge. So it's. It's a unique environment nowadays. Actually. I even write about this in Surge as an author. There's a big transition in. In that space too. The traditional publishing houses. There's that word traditional again. The traditional publishing houses are making a massive shift to survive and this is causing a ripple of opportunities for authors. I'm doing. I call it the double dip. I don't really know if there's a technical term, but playing a hybrid between self published and traditional publishing is really optimal. You can do some amazing things in getting the word out. Writing books that are a lot more cutting edge and different and still get the backing of a traditional publisher. If you, you kind of do this hybrid model. Well.

And now the. Because self publishers have so much leverage, especially if you've done it successfully before, what you can write into your contract is, oh my God, so much more advantageous.

Yeah. And you can go agent free. I don't have an agent. I did for a while in the past. I don't need an agent anymore. It's. Yeah, it's unnecessary. So.

Absolutely. The, you know, last couple questions is, you know, what's a nut you're trying to crack right now? I know you want to get more publicity for the book. This is probably like the Surge, the book promotion Surge you're doing right now, Is there anybody you're trying to meet? Is there any resources you're trying to get? Any people you need to know, anything? This is where I or any of my listeners have a potential opportunity to help you out.

Oh, I would be honored, flattered, thrilled to get on podcasts because I've been doing some studies like what gets the word out most effectively, and there's that surge. Right? So it used to be email. An email blast is still the most effective, a one time blast, but it's fading now at an exponential rate. Where podcasting is starting to grow at an exponential rate, there will always be this thing that has an impact. It's very clear that it's podcast now. And I don't know how long that wave's gonna ride out, if it's gonna be a few more years or another decade, but podcasts are it. So I'd be honored or humbled at both. Any introductions to podcasters?

Yeah, I definitely got a handful of people that I.

Except for Michael o'. Neill. He's a jackass.

He is such a jackass. That's gonna be. Make that the opening thing. The first thing people hear.

You totally made that the opening. Michael o' Neill is a jack wad.

He's gonna love it.

He. I had him on my podcast and it went so south, so far, so fast. It was unbelievable. And then on top of it, he's the grammar police. So he starts like, if, if you use a word inappropriately, he'll jump on top and say, dude, dude. He's funny and he's.

If anybody doesn't know Michael o', Neill, he's the host of the Solopreneur Hour. I was a guest on there. I know you've been a guest on there. You're really, really a great show. Cool, man. I love it. If there's anybody else out there, other podcast hosts who are listening to my show, taking notes, Michael Michalowicz is available for you too. And I got a couple intros I will make.

Wow. Thank you.

Well, man, this has been great. Look forward to diving into the book, reading it, and catching my own surge.

There you go, Brad. Thank you.

All right, guys, thanks for listening to the show. Thanks for tuning in again. Michael, thanks for being a guest again, coming back and sharing your insights. It's always fun to have you. If there are any questions you have, email me askbradaconrappedbusiness.com Send me those book recommendations that you've got. As I mentioned in the first part, of the show. Go buy yourself or your favorite woman some stiletto coffee from stiletto coffee.com, also available on Amazon, unofficial sponsor of the show. And if you are looking for help to grow your business and get, you know, find out where you're at, whether you're stuck, whether there's too many marketing options, you don't know what to do and you are, your head is kind of spinning. You either need a cash injection from some marketing strategies that work or you just need a second opinion on, you know, what you're doing right now. If it's the right or wrong thing, send me an email to ask bradakenratbusiness. Let me know, we can potentially jump on the phone, talk about it, see if there's any way that I could potentially help you out. If you like the advice, maybe you decide to become a strategic partner of mine, work with me in some form or another. But there's only one way to find out, which is to ask. In fact, ask brad@baconratbusiness.com alright Mike, thanks again for being on the show again and I look forward to jumping into this and wish you the best, brother.

Oh, it's been a joy. Thanks for having me on.

Thank you.