How To Write Email Copy Like Pro In Less Than One Day with Jon Benson

How do you make business problems disappear? Wrap em in bacon for business owners, marketing execs, and anyone trying to grow your business. Pump your profits and make more while doing less. Welcome to Bacon Wrapped Business with Brad Costanzo. Sizzling hot business advice guaranteed to make you fat profits. Every week our chefs will serve you proven recipes for ramping up your revenue. Now here's your host, Brad Costanzo. All right, welcome back to Bacon Wrapped business. This is Brad Costanzo and today I have got a very exciting guest guy that I've known of for a very long time. I've known for a little bit shorter and I recently got to sit down with him and see some of the absolutely insanely cool tools that he has created for entrepreneurs to help shortcut one of the most profitable but problematic areas of their business, which is email marketing. So I'm going to introduce you to John Benson in just a moment. Some of you will already know that name. However, at any time during this show, if you, if something strikes you, you have a question, you've got a suggestion, you just want to reach out. Maybe I piss you off or maybe I really please you. You can always email me@askbradaconrappedbusiness.com that is a personal email. I do read every single one of them and I want to than of my longtime listeners for rejoining the show and getting the opportunity to eavesdrop on conversations I personally want to have anyway with people I want to talk to. So John is no different. I could read this rote introduction on who John Benson is and what he's done, but I'm going to keep it short and sweet. John is one of the most successful marketing and copywriting minds out there. He is probably the inventor of the video sales letter that you've seen for years. I know. I think I first came across it back in maybe 2009 and it dramatically changed the course of one of the businesses that I ran. And John has been on the cutting edge, not only with his own products, but working with some of the absolute biggest marketing companies in the world, helping them sell. Not, I believe, John, correct me if I'm wrong, not millions of dollars. But has your copy officially been responsible for in the billions of sales?

It has, yeah. I'm one of the three guys that I know of that, that are alive that can say that.

Who are the other two? Who are the other two?

One is Craig Clemons.

Ah, nice. Yeah, I know Craig very well.

I'm pretty damn sure he's hit that mark by now or will and yeah. And the other one is John Carroll.

Beautiful. Well, no, it's awesome.

I said Craig Clemons. You know, I take that back. I take Craig. I know he's in the hundreds of millions, but it's not Craig Clemons. It's Gary Benzavanga Bensavanga.

Yeah, I was gonna say, how can you about Gary? That's amazing. Well, John's already piping in, so. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome John Benson to Bacon Write Business.

So, John, I'm definitely the inventor of the video. The video sales letter. So it's pretty funny. It's like. I'm pretty sure he's. Yeah, no, I do.

I'm pretty sure it's funny because I remember I didn't first see it from you. I saw it from somebody else. And then I remember real quickly seeing some of your stuff, and I'm like, oh, wow, this is next level. Like, this is really, really good. This guy knows what he's doing. And then obviously, I realized that you were the guy who kind of made that all happen. For folks who. For anybody who's listening who's like, well, what do you mean by video sales letter? Let's give people a quick little primer on what that was. Is. I should say so.

Yeah. It still is. It blows my mind that this still works as well as it works today, but it does. I just had a guy come up to me. I spoke at Todd Brown's event, and he came up and said, man, our new VSL is like, doing. I just followed your seller formula, and it's doing. You know, it just came out of the gate doing 2.2 ROI. I'm like, okay, you're getting 200 over 200% ROI right out of the gate. Coming out of it. It's pretty good.

Yeah.

Right out of the gate on cold traffic. That's pretty good. So, yeah, video sales letter is. Well, at least you know, my version of it. What you've seen probably 99% of the time is you see words on the page that are just. They're just text on the page right. When you're. You're. You're speaking over the words, but no style.

In photos and pictures, it's not pretty. They come. So sometimes they call them ugly video sales letters, right? Yep.

Yeah. So, yeah, Perry Belcher is the guy that coined that with Ryan Dice. When I was showing those guys what I was doing and the ugly video sales letters stuck. And, yeah, they are ugly. But the pages that work the best, sales pages and video sales letters tend to be Ugly. And. Yeah. And so. And over the years, they've evolved to where people put doodle art on top of them, animation on top of them, even some still video, some live video on top of them, but they're still going slides to still convert. And it's just the psychology of this is pretty strong in the sense that you're forcing people to read every word of your sales letter. And that was the idea behind it. How do I get somebody to read what I've written? One way to do that is to show it to them one sentence, one paragraph at a time. You get a hypnotic effect from that, you know, when somebody's reading literally one sentence at a time. And so I. The idea came to me, I was a psychology minor, and it came to me when I remembered a stat that said, if you're listening and reading at the same time, you're taking in like, 68% more information. So I thought, well, I'll just read my sales letter. Was that was the original idea?

Yeah.

Well, that would be kind of boring. And my first. The very first try at this was me literally scrolling down the page of my written sales letter. That didn't work out. That, okay, well, I'll try this. And put this on a. Like, a slide by slide basis. And it came up, you know. Yeah. I didn't know anything about powerpointer because I never used it.

Right.

So I had to figure out PowerPoint. Next thing you know, the first BSL was every other Day Diet, and the second one was Truth About Abs. And I just pulled up the truth about abs bsl about 30 minutes ago because somebody was asking about it, and.

That thing is still, really, still rocking, you know, and it's for people who haven't seen it. Well, for those of you who have seen it, it is so counterintuitive when you're doing it, because I know when I'm creating them, I'm going through this or not anymore, because I know they convert like crazy, but it's like, nobody's gonna watch this. This is. So I'm creating the most boring looking like. And so there's that side of us that is like, no, I want to make this fancier, and I want to give people something to be pleased by. But what you said is it's hypnotic. And I've told people why. My theory on why it works, which is exactly that, is that if you're giving something a picture for somebody to look at and you're just talking over it, their eyes are looking at something different than what their ears are listening to. So even though you may think it's boring, it is that trance like effect that you're not giving them anything else to look at. And if the copy is good and if the copy is engaging and it holds their attention, you hook them in, which is really what you are all about and what good copy is all about, then they won't pull away and they won't get distracted and they'll just stare at this thing until they pull out their wallet. Right. That's the whole goal.

The goal is to. Yeah, it's not to entertain, it's to mesmerize and to get somebody out of it. Their natural state of distraction. So that's really all we're trying to do do. We're just trying to keep people out of distraction. And it's so freaking hard in today's world especially. And when VSL first came out in 2007 or 2009, was it. I can't remember.

Well, that's when I know, I know that I switched over in 2009 and I immediately saw like a double in my conversion.

Yeah, yeah. One thing, I think it was 2009 when I came up with the first one. But it was obviously no one had seen anything like it. And now that there's. There's thousands upon thousands of cells out there even today, it's like, is the market just is not saturated yet? It's just, it's. It's like saying. I remember when Ryan pitched his. He came up with a BSL course before I did. Bastard. And, and he pitched it, he goes odd. You know, text sales letters are dead. You know, I've never said that. So people have asked me that all the time. I just wrote textiles. In fact, I'm writing the first vsl. I've been taking clients all year. I just didn't want to. And I took a client, Metabolic Sherpa and we're turning a letter that I wrote into a vsl and we decide in the process of it and this is something we can talk about how email copy written sales letter copy and VSL copy, they're all very different. And even using the same exact letter, like here's the hook that we came up with. We knew the hook work. It was a multimillion dollar letter. We did. You didn't want to mess with the hook. But even positioning that whenever someone was speaking, it slightly changed it. And next thing you know, I rewrote 70% of that letter just because it just came out different. And when you think in terms of VSL structure, your mind just goes in a different direction. And that's one reason it works, is because you're forced to think modularly. You're forced to think in segments versus, like, in paragraphs. So anyway, there's a lot of reasons why I can think of that VSL's work and they still work, but saying that they're not going to work anymore, it's like saying a written sales letter isn't going to work anymore. It's ridiculous. Or direct mail doesn't work anymore. I mean, how many, how many times have you heard that?

Million. Yeah. And it. And it works like crazy.

Oh, here's a great. I'll give you. Like, this is how powerful this analogy is. I have two friends of mine. One, his name is Caleb, and he.

Has a supplement company, Caleb Jennings.

No, Caleb Ladow. And Caleb lives in Ireland and with his brother John. And they run this $50 million supplement company where it's all based on placing ads in newspapers in the United States.

Isn't that amazing? You know what's funny? You remember I was telling you about a. I was telling you about a company just before we jumped on here, selling about $3 million a year of physical product and using nothing up until recently. The past few months, they started doing Facebook ads, using nothing but magazine ads for the past, like, five years and just been absolutely killing it with about a 27% profit margin. Right. It's like this stuff exists. And like, you know, now I'm working with this company to help bring the digital marketing strategy to the table. So, you know, we're going to clean up. But exactly like what you just said, like, these other things work. The, the thing is, it's all based. It's all, how good is the copy? Are you? You know, ugly. Video sales, letters, print ads, direct mail, they don'. If your copy is crap, nothing works. If your copy is crap, that's ultimately the big right. And it's like people say, oh, start a podcast, start a show, do this, do that, do video marketing. Well, if you suck on video, if you're not a good interview host, you're not going to have any success. So quality is still important. And that's one of the cool things about what you've done versus. There's always been a lot of formulaic templates things out there. But one of the things that I've always really loved about what you've put out in the world, and we're going to talk about your newest thing here in just a moment, folks, is the Fact that you're combining creating a formula and a wizard, but with world class copy elements. And it's not just, okay, here's something really basic, here's a basic copy structure you can follow. This is the stuff that is like, like you said, it's world class frameworks.

Yeah. The idea was with accelerator and with, with Email Copy Pro. Now the idea was how can I sneak in teaching you a level copy strategies without selling you a copywriting course? And also at the same time that you're learning, it's actually doing. So the success models that I studied and my friend Josh Pelissier was really key in helping me crack the accelerator code because he was looking at success models too. And it was always learning and doing at the same time. So the models that education systems provide were using versus like you have a textbook and you learn something, then you take a test. It's a lot different than if you have a textbook. You learn something, you immediately apply it to something, and then you learn something, you immediately apply something else. You absorb so much more of it. So when people are going through like either accelerator, which is the VSL course, or they go through Email Copy Pro, they don't realize what they're doing because I'm not telling you what I'm doing. But when they watch the videos, which are really short because I chunked it down to literally every single sentence, you know, it's like, so the videos are like 30 seconds long, a minute long.

I love that, by the way.

Thanks, man. And they're seeing this like, oh, okay, here's what this, here's what the whole idea behind this, whatever I name everything, you know, the primary solution. This is what this means. And so I'm teaching you the marketing stuff to fill in a blank, but in reality, I'm teaching you the marketing stuff so that you can use it in your mind. And yeah, rather than saying here's some abstract course that talks about branding, branding a solution versus branding your product, for example. So that's a concept that copywriters would like to hear about. You know, like we're branding the unique mechanism versus branding the name of the product. Everybody wants to sell the name of the product. They should be selling the mechanism. The name of the product is simply carrying the mechanism. Because you can, anyone can. You can take a name of a product. I can, I can write a book called Body for Life if I wanted to, that you can't copyright a title. But what I can't do is take Bill Phillips's ideas, his mate, his. If you will the matrix underneath the book. And I can't copy or I can't steal that. No, I wouldn't steal either. But the point is someone stole every other day diet. This girl from Britain stole that title from me.

Did she really look at the book.

Even is similar but the concepts in her book are different than the concepts of mine. I mean they're, they're similar, but they're different. And, and from what I heard, she's actually quite knowledgeable. So that's great. The problem is obviously it's uncool thing to do to take this, to take the title, but there's nothing to do about that. Well, the same thing is true of your product. If you're just marketing your product and you're saying, hey, my product helps you lose weight, my product helps you build a business online, whatever it may be. And you don't have a unique mechanism behind why that product is so unique. So that you can say name a product is the only place in the world you can get blank. And that blank right there is everything. That's the trademark term, that's the, the unique mechanism. It's what I call in email Copy Pro, the primary solution. That's what I call it in inside the video sales letter formula too. So what is the primary solution? How do we pull that out of you? And if you haven't thought through what your primary solution is, whether you know it or not, when you're watching these videos and filling in these blanks, I'm forcing you to think through it and you name something and next thing you'll know, you'll come back, you'll think about it, you'll stick it in your subconscious mind and you'll be in the shower, you'll go, hey, I just thought of that. I can name it this. And next thing you know, now you've got all these different avenues and levers, levers to market stuff with, especially with email marketing, right.

And you know, one of the most, one of the most well known examples that I can think of to help you know, any of the listeners is muscle confusion, right? Who, who did that? P90X, right. So that, you know, the product was called P90X which is actually just a, you know, it's kind of a weird name of a title. It's not, not, you know, nobody would probably say, oh, that's a great brand name. It's not even that memorable, right?

But brand name, right. Terrible to a billion dollar credit, right.

But it's because of the fact that they had a primary Solution. They had a unique mechanism that they called muscle confusion around the entire thing. And then that's what everybody was like, oh, well, if you want, they start to believe that muscle confusion is the key. And then the only place to get muscle confusion is P90X because they invented the term.

Of course, Joe weider had that 20 years before that, right? Yeah, but it's like people forget. I mean, you know, there was a whole Weider principle called the muscle confusion principle. But the point is, is. Yeah, and Weider was a genius at that in the fitness world, you know, everything was the Weider so and so principle. He coined everything. You know, you're wondering why this guy built the main, the major empire in, in this case, magazines. Of course, when, when the world turned digital, they, they kind of fell off the map, but until the world turned digital. But the principles still work and they, they work today. Caloric staggering is something I coined in every other day diet. Inside Email Copy Pro we have inbox branding. So the concept, and of course the one that everyone knows inside that is epic email. So I coined that. There's four types of emails and you can spell, you can remember them by the word epic. Yeah. Engagement, promotion, inspirational emails from content and consumer consumption. That's it. That's the only four types of emails. And so what we, we do in Email Copy Pro is we actually create emails that blend. There's, there's a reason why there's four strategies. First of all, like when you engage somebody, there's a psychology behind engagement, right? Like if you come up to, you're meeting a girl at a bar, you walk up to her and you go, hey, what's your name? You know, probably not the best way to come up to somebody, right? But even worse is, hey, do you come here often?

Yeah.

So there, there's lousy levels of income.

Engagement, like what's your name? Is the most generic, right? You're not going to do any harm, you're not going to do any good, right?

What's your name? But what if you were going to get really clever and you sit down and you said, hey, not to be rude, but I think you stole my seed. And also you. What? No, I've been sitting here for hours ago. No, I was sitting there before you, I promise. And now you, all of a sudden you've got like some weird curiosity angle, like, what? And she's like, you're saying, I'm just messing with you. I'm totally messing with you. My name's John, you know, or whatever. So I Wanted to. That's a pattern, right? You stole my seat. All of a sudden, everything she's currently talking about goes out the window. Now, I'm not trying to get into pickup lines with women. That's not what this is about. Right. But you're literally picking up a client in the same way that you're seducing a person in a bar. And I mean seducing in a nice way, not in a Harvey Weinstein way.

Don't just whip it out. Don't whip your product out.

Seduce them a little. I think that's Louis CK strategy. Right.

But you.

Okay, so you got that going, right? But the psychology of that engagement, from a client perspective, a potential customer perspective, is completely different than the psychology of selling. So just take my analogy of coming up to a gorilla bar, and let's say that you did use a clever thing, like you're setting my seat, or you come up with another line. That's clever. What if you came up to her and said, hey, I'd like to give you my phone number so that we can go out tomorrow? Now, now, that's a direct sales pitch, right? Now, if you are a super stud, or if you got serious, serious game, or if you just feel the energy between the two of you and you handle that just right. I have actually done that before and had that work. Like, but, boy, that is a rare. That's the. That's the 10% of your list that will buy anything that you sell because they will buy anything that anyone sells.

Right?

The 90% that won't do that.

99%, exactly.

Need some sort of engagement. Right, right. I'm being very Liberal with that 10%.

Right.

So the psychology behind a clever sales pitch is completely different than the psychology behind an engagement pitch, which is completely different than in the psychology behind an inspirational pitch. So again, taking the girl at the bar. If you come up to this, a girl at the bar and say, you know, I'm not trying to. And you introduce yourself, and the very first thing you say is like, hey, you know, I'm not. I'm not trying to blow smoke or anything, but I just want to say a lot of girls come in here and they just. They have the. A very kind of generic look. And your look is so unique. Is that something you've all. So now I'm just. Now I'm going into more of a content pitch. Okay, so tell me about your look. How did you get this look? Where did you come up with this? I'm asking questions. I'm getting I'm getting. I'm in engagement. But before she can say something and I can turn that into content, like, I can start talking about, like, yeah, okay, so I got this interesting story about, like, how I developed my look, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, so you get into conversation. But the psychology there is completely different. That psychology is built on replacement. Rapport engagement is not rapport engagement is how do you say hello. Inspiration is about how do you keep build rapport. Selling is about how do you make a compelling offer. And then consumption is all about how do you get somebody to follow through on that offer? How do you get somebody to use the product or service they just bought? So those are the four types of persuasion within all emails. There's only four.

So repeat that. So repeat those once more because I'm writing these down for the show notes.

Yeah. Okay. Just remember the word epic. Engage, promote, inspire, and consume. Those are the only four types of emails in existence. In fact, I would argue those are the only types of persuasion matrixes in existence when it comes to especially email. So you engage, you promote, you inspire. And inspiration is huge because that's content. Okay, when people say, I need to send, I hear this all the time, I need to send more content to my list. But if you change the perspective of that and you said, I need to send more inspiration to my list, I need to inspire my list to do X. What do you want to inspire them to do? Well, there's three ways that you can inspire someone. You can inspire someone to believe in themselves, you can inspire someone to believe in you, and you can inspire someone to take action. Those are the three main ones. There's probably others, but those are the three inspirational models that we use in content. So rather than saying content, okay, what is content? I'm going to give you stuff. Okay, Brad, here's five ways you can write a clever headline. Okay? But if I couch that into the model of inspiration, I can say, hey, Brad, believe it or not, you can write killer headlines. Trust me, I've taught this trick to rabbits. And if a rabbit can pull this off, I know you can, because you're a lot smarter than a rabbit. Right? Right. Well, let me show you. All I did was couch this in a really silly, obviously inspirational framework. Okay, listen, I've got clients that have never. They can't write a grocery list, and they've written headlines that have pulled in millions of dollars. I'm going to tell you this formula now. You're inspired to learn the formula. So if I just say, hey, Brad, I want to give you five ways to write a clever headline. There's no inspiration there. You have to be intrinsically inspired to want that to happen.

Right?

You have to say, I am just really wanting my headlines to work. But if I say, hey, what if I showed you something that could help make you a lot of money that anyone can do and blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's an inspirational framework for that same content piece, but now someone's going to actually listen to it.

I love it.

That's the huge thing. And then so engage, promote, inspire and consume. Consume is customers that buy things and you get them to follow through. Like, hey, here's what you do first, here's what you do next. I'm checking in on you. But there's a lot more to consumption than that. Now here's the really tricky part. Ready for this?

Yep.

There's four modes of psychology in there. Completely different, Right? We agree that we went through the funny pickup line. If you try to do a consumption like. Like you come up to a girl at a bar and you try to consumption pickup line. Like, hey, how. How was it last night? Was it good for you? That's funny. That's funny. But it's like, would you like to do this again? She's gonna look at you probably like you're from a freak from another planet.

Right.

Unless you've got great game also will.

Likely only work on that one out of a million, Right?

Exactly, exactly. So the psychology is completely different. If you were with her the previous night and you saw her at the bar and you came up to her and you were like, hey, how's it going? You know, and then you said, hey, how was it? Did you enjoy less than what? Did you have fun? Yeah, I had a great time. Would you like to do it again? Okay, that's consumption. Okay.

She.

She just consumed you in, in that way. All right, but boy, we're getting X rated here all of a sudden.

Love it.

But, but, yeah, so that's a different psychology. Now what if you could combine all four of those psychological elements into virtually every email? In other words, the only four psychological elements that people use to get persuaded to do anything, interact, build rapport, buy something, and use what they bought all into the same email, that'd be powerful.

If there was only somebody who knew such a way to do this. Do you know somebody?

I do. I look at him every morning longing with a lustful, longing gaze. So yes, yes. That is the basis, that is unique mechanism of email copy pro. That is what Makes it so incredibly, incredibly powerful. And speaking of incredibly powerful, my girl is calling me, so I'm telling her.

Tell her. And as you do that, I'm going to tell the listeners, I'm going to preface it with this. So the other night a couple weeks ago, I'm in a Mastermind with about 12 guys who are just awesome super high level entrepreneurs. And John was in town here in San Diego and he stopped by and John, you shared some of the stuff you're working on, which is exactly this. And you shared this email Copy Pro, which, you know, a minute ago we talked about your accelerator program where you can, you know, it's a, it's a software that actually uses all your principles in this framework for creating highly converting video sales letters. And now you've taken it to the next level, which is, and you're going to talk all about this. But guys, I witnessed behind the scenes in the screen share of how of this tool that John's about to talk about, Email Copy Pro, which just blew me away with how much time and mental energy it can save. And I'll even preface it with this because this week I was told to share this on my podcast by a friend of mine, my buddy Brad Spencer, because I was revising webinar copy for one of my clients that I help out and I just decided to roll up my sleeves and get in there and do it. And I was just, it felt like I was wrestling with a bear. At one point I was just on the floor with a pillow over my head, kicking and screaming into this pillow because I had the hook of what I wanted to talk about and it was on the tip of my tongue, but I couldn't quite get it right. It's like that puzzle piece that, it's like you've got one piece left and the pieces don't fit and I'm just screaming because it's, I'm trying to do this though, like using my own creativity as opposed to using a framework or using something else. And I realize how just painful it can be to sometimes create really good copy. Email is the exact same. I was doing this with a client last week for a very high ticket offer. And I'm just sitting there thinking, okay, what do I say? How do I say it? I've got to draw on all of my years of, to do this. And I remember when John was showing me this stuff going, man, this got to be an easier way. So I wanted to preface this with why, like why I think it's so cool what you're doing because those people who have not really ever tried to write copy don't understand this. But those of us who have realized it is literally as painful as giving birth if you're not doing it the right way.

Oh yeah, yeah.

I mean, I'm sure you've pulled your hair out many, many times over this time.

Yeah, many times. It's the idea is this. I mean, because, you know. So Brad and I are sitting in a mastermind in San Diego. See Mike Koenigs and Phil Same.

Well, he wasn't there that night.

Phil Same wasn't there because. Because he's just gay that way. But no, he was like his birthday or something. I saw him the next week in Florida. So. And then there was a. Glenn was there and then I was sitting next to Travis Houston.

Yeah.

And all these badass marketers are this room, right? And we're just kind of. I'm, I'm shot all day long with Mike and so I'm like exhausted back in. I have to go see these guys, right? And it gets around to me and I'm going, oh, well, I just, yeah, I don't really have anything prepared. I was going to show you this and I put it up on the screen and here's what this does. Everybody's looking. I go, when can we buy that? Yeah. What the hell is that? Come again? So when marketers see this, they immediately get it all. Every high end marketer gets this.

If you've ever written copy in your life or want to, you get it, right?

You're like, wait, this I can do.

What now?

Yeah. So to give you, to give you an idea, what we did is to create, to templatize email. You can do that in a really cheesy way. I won't mention your name. Script all. Excuse me, sorry, sorry. I clear my throat. No, I'm kidding. You can do it in the cheesy way. And don't get me wrong, I mean cheesy tools have their place, right? You can also do that in a way that takes more effort. No lying here, a little more effort. Have to spend a few hours setting this up. But you're Getting copy from 30 of the best copywriters on the planet. So it's not just one guy. It's me and Todd Brown and Ryan Dice and down the line, okay, it's people that literally, because I, I wrote VSLs for these guys and sales letters and they made them lots of money. I reached out and go, hey, can you send me some of your best campaigns and we were able to take their sequences and campaigns and actually retool them and rewrite them every single time we want to rewrite them. In other words, we have a feature called regenerate where you click a button and the whole thing rewrites. So everybody gets fresh examples of these emails. But the sequences, again, that epic sequence is in these emails, emails, and at least three of the four in every email, except for the really short ones, like, hey, you're five minutes away from a webinar or something. But so my thought was, what if we could combine this into a system to where once you fill out your niche, once you tell the system about your business, that the system literally is like an AI system that integrates with our minds and our minds infused with yours, and out comes these emails that sound like you and I wrote them together. And that was the goal. So there are not emails that, that. That. There's some scripting tools that come out like, are you wanting to lost weight yesterday? You know, I mean.

Yeah, exactly.

I was showing you guys the email copy where they're going, and this is the general reaction. I was sitting down with Perry from digital marketer Perry Belcher. And so he said, okay, show this to me. I want to write a promo for a survival market. I go, okay, I'm going to just pre select our survival niche. I'd never seen it before because I didn't write it. And I said, okay, I'm gonna select these three promo emails. Just selected them, randomly click the button, generate them. He looks at it, goes, yeah, but you wrote that. I got. No, I didn't. No, I didn't.

I didn't write anything. And for those of you who don't know, Perry Belcher is one of the best copywriters out there. So, yeah, he and I are in.

A constant war with each other, right? But the point is, he goes, that's a. He's looked at. He goes, wow, that's a. That's a really good starting point. I go, you think so, huh? For him, that's a starting point. In other words, he could start with that in and tweak it here and there and get a complete Perry Belcherism kind of email out of it for other people. That will never be Perry. That which is 99.9 infinite number or nines of us. Don't worry, you don't want to be.

They don't even need it as a starting point. It's a finishing point.

And there will never be a pro level copyright. You will take this as it is. And send it out. And that's the goal. I wanted to have. Have emails that if you wanted to put your personal touch on it, it's even better. It's even better to say, like, you start a paragraph saying, hey, my wife and I were at the movies last night. Stuff that we can't do with the machine, but the content is so powerful that, that you. That you could literally send it out as is. And again in. In promotional emails and solo emails and in entire sequences. So if you have a webinar coming up, we have the best webinar promotional sequence ever, because Jason Flatland is the best webinar guy ever.

Jason is the monster. Best, like, amazing at that.

Jason just gave me his. Well, here's the webinar sequences that we use for this.

That alone. That alone is like gold. Yeah.

So. So we took that and took the structures and then we wrote around the structures and then put them in there. And now dog trainers can use it, fitness guys can use it. And that's the cool thing about it is it doesn't matter what niche.

Well, I love that because, you know, there are other, There are other wizards, copy wizards out there. Like, you know, you mentioned script doll. I've used that. I've used script funnel scripts.

What.

What is it?

Russell did? I did.

No, I don't think you did. No, I, I think it was a sneeze.

I think I did a call for sneeze, but.

And then Russell Brunson has his. And he's got, you know, was it script funnels or funnel scripts or one of those? And I, And I've used. And I still use that. And it's. They're, they're very, very, very handy, however. Exactly. Like what you said, there is still a lot of work that goes into it. They are much more, you know, it's much more geared, I can see for people who have absolutely zero copy experience. And it is a great starting point for a lot of people. One of the things I, I love about yours is that you went to the next step is. Yeah, let's. Because garbage in, garbage out. Right. If you. But at the same time, if you put gold in and you take these top people who aren't writing formulaically and they are. They have sold millions of millions of dollars, and then you're breaking down what they did and using their stuff. I think that's really your. What did you call it? Your primary solution. Right.

Your solutions. Epic email. Yeah.

Yeah. And it really is the, the other thing. So. And I got this Concept. This really changed my business when I learned this from Richard Lindner, you know, one of the guys over at Digital Market. I know you, Richard. So has he ever given you, has he ever told you his 108010 concept?

Yep.

Love that.

Yeah. It's so funny because Jason regurgitated it the other day.

Great. So that changed. I remember about three years ago, I was sitting with Richard having drinks at Traffic and Conversion Summit and, you know, copy. I'm a really, really good copywriter, and yet I hate it because it is so painful. And any copywriter knows the worst thing you can ever do with the most painful is sit down with a blank piece of paper and it's like, right, right. Just go from absolute scratch. And that's one of the things where he said, look, here's how I do it and here's how I outsource copy and whatnot, which is it's my job to come up with the first 10%. This is the hook, this is the offer, this is the general structure. These are the big points that I kind of want to cover. And this is, I mean, you know, the hook and the big idea. And then he'll hire, he'll flesh that out, hire a copywriter, give them that to fill out the rest of the 80% and then he'll come in and refine the final 10%. Right. So when I started doing that, it removed 80% of the pain away from writing copy, which was amazing. But then things like this, I think it actually even takes that, like Perry Marshall says, 8020 squared. So now you may only have to do the 4% and, you know, the top 2%, the bottom 2%, and yours does the rest. So just those two pieces alone. As I said, I'm a huge believer in 80, 20. I'm a huge, huger believer in that 10, 80, 10. And I love the fact that the solutions that you've done both for VSLs and for email copy now seems to fit plug and play right into those strategies that I know I've used and some other brilliant marketers have used to just get high quality stuff at a fraction of the time.

Right, right. That was the idea. And to expand on it further if I can. For example, I gave a guy, guy wanted to promote one of my fitness offers. He goes, I want 30 days of emails. Well, I didn't have 30 days of days of emails. I just didn't have it.

Yeah, that's a lot to write.

So I said, but hey, I do have this machine. So I got one of my staff Guys who didn't know the product. I said, just, here's the sales letter. Just read over the sales letter and create 30 days of emails. And he went into Email Copy Pro and was able to do that within less than a day.

Really.

I mean, so I'm talking about. And that includes learning products. So I didn't even know the product. People would have known the product. And if he would have the niche done, he could have done it in 30 minutes. But it's like, so, so that's my point. But behind it's do you really want to try to mess with this? And it's so funny because I was reading the emails, I know where they came from. I'm like, oh, this is Jason's. Oh, this is Brian's. Oh, I remember Ryan's. To me, that, oh, I remember this one's Perry's. Oh, this one's, you know, this one's mine. Oh, this one's mine too. Yeah. So I was able to go through and go, oh, here's where these are, and just shot them over to the guy and, you know, he was able to turn it into an affiliate version.

You know, that's amazing. The. So walk me through. You touched on this the other night. So going back to garbage in, garbage out, and then I'm making this, that gold in, gold out. But it's. There is. It's not. You download it, you push a button and the copies out there. So there is some upfront work. Like let's just say I've got. Let's say I've got a client in the how to invest in real estate market.

Right, Right.

Whether it's a client or whether it's. Or whether that's my company. Right. So walk me through what the experience is from the customer's standpoint. I get access to Email Copy Pro. How long is it going to take me? What am I going to do? Paint the picture.

Okay, so we are releasing, as of about two weeks from now, we're releasing what we're calling the lite version of it, which is still infinitely more powerful. It's uses 85% of the emails we use in the elite version. It just doesn't use the things like we get really granular in the elite version where we're going drilling down into like solution tips and how that solution ties into your primary solution and this complicated stuff that marketers and guys like you and agencies want to use. The vast majority of people don't need that. And so we stripped it down to a light version with a Light version. You can, it used to be you could set up the, what we call the epic email setup, which is going to get you started in 90 minutes, but the rest of it would take you probably a full day of work to do. Starting to populate your entire niche to go through 380 fields. We have 380 fields. Now it's down to 90 fields in the consents version of this. Because unless you need a live event and all that kind of stuff, then you can add that on and you can literally go through the entire thing in about 90 minutes. I mean, setting it all up at about 90 minutes, but it's the quick start you can set up in 10 minutes. You're just off to the races. So that's from scratch. Now if you choose a niche that we've already built, like for example, we have a real estate niche. You just choose a real estate niche and 80% of it's done. Then you fill in the details that we don't know, like your first name, your last name, your specific URL, things that aren't too difficult to fill in. Right? Then you go through the niche and you can do that on a per email basis. So you can just say, I want to use this email, I want to use this sequence. And then you see where the fields aren't filled in, you click on it and you can populate it. Then you can add more than one entry because we want you to add more than one version of everything because the next time we create another email for you, we'll pull in a different version of the same thing that you just said. So if your goal is to make more money on real estate, and let's say that's one of your goal, you can also say you can cash in on real estate, learn how to liquidate and flip offers. So I'm just going through like how I would structure those verbs, like learn, growing, get, you know, verb. Next thing you know is you've got an email that, that has multiple ways of saying the same thing. That sounds like a human being versus if you want to make money in real estate and you really enjoy make money in real estate, email will help you make money in real estate. That's how these scriptures sound.

Yeah, it is that bland.

Ours is like if you want to make more money in real estate and enjoy the life that you deserve, I want you to read this email right now because you'll learn how you can find flip real estate, blah, blah, blah. See that? Now it sounds like a copywriter's writing.

Yeah, and that's a huge difference. Now there is a couple more questions are coming to mind here. I know. So your background, you've. You've done a lot of work in information marketing and helping people sell products that help them whether you know better health, wealth and relationships.

Right.

And there's a whole other types of other businesses out there, service based businesses, E commerce, physical products, etc. Does yours typically, does it work? Do you have something for everybody, every primary industry or is it more heavily focused on people who are in the one niche or another like information etc.

No, it's. We have a B2B section, we have E commerce, we. Those are, those are applicable niches and basically it's really simple. If you send email to sell anything.

This works beautiful well and the nice part is like stuff like E commerce is actually infinitely easier than selling information and you know how to improve your life, health, wealth and relationships because hey, I've got a physical product. Here's a picture. Do you want it?

Yeah, that and B2B. It's like, you know, yeah. Like we have this whole thing where we took from the was a buddy of mine that writes copy in the chiropractic niche and we thought if we could take a chiropractor sequence. It's just all it is is four emails. It's four emails that this guy says here's the four emails that I give to these chiropractors and that's all they need that they start getting people in the door and they've like tripled their revenue just because they use the sequence so well. That would work for dentists, lawyers, it worked for any local B2B business, right? Or B2C business. Absolutely for B2B. And then we started thinking through this and ah, well what if you use this and this and this. Next thing you know we have this campaign that's built around the idea of looking at your competitors case studies and so we just walk you through. So basically the email itself is the strategy of the marketing and that's what I want to emphasize here. It's one thing to give someone a template and I kid around with, you know, with script all and a kid around with funnel scripts and all that stuff and those, those are, those are functional tools for certain people at certain times. It's a different thing to say I'm gonna sneak in a marketing strategy within this email. You don't know I'm teaching you how to market something. But by forcing you to answer certain questions or by finding a certain image like we say like, here's. You'll see below is the results of the case study we did with blah, blah, blah. Oh, crap, I'll get a case study. Next thing you know, is like, I never thought about sending a case study email up to somebody and. Yeah, you never did.

Wow, that's.

But that's all over email copyright. Like, oh, I didn't think about sending it.

That's one of the hardest things, like you say, is to think about, what do I want to send these people today? I don't know.

Right.

It's like, I got to come up with something. You got to come up with ideas. And I like that it has that. You know, there's a whole other angle that I know you've probably thought about, we haven't really discussed, which is, you know, how people can use copywriters. And people who are trying to, you know, have a, you know, their own business, freelance service business, etcetera, can use this as an amazing tool that they can go out and sell copywriting services to any type of business. Because people do need this stuff. And there are some businesses who will never come across Email Copy Pro, but they may come across, you know, Joe Smith, copywriting consultant, and they can come in and know that, you know, listen, I can. I can charge you for copywriting services. I can do X, Y and Z, and I can. And because they know they can fulfill it using your systems and it's. It creates a very legitimate and potentially lucrative business opportunity for somebody who's either out there doing it now or wants to and knows that they have the ability to go hustle up and get some business. And I just think it's a tremendous piece of leverage that folks can do because, I mean, you could say, oh, this. Is this going to put some copywriters out of business? No, I think it's going to make a much more powerful and it's going to make more copywriters out there.

I had Dean Graziosis copywriters saw this, and he's like, freaking out about it. Bought it on the spot.

Yeah.

And at first he was like, man, he was watching me use it and he's like, this is making me nervous. I said, don't make it think of it this way. I go. He said, I just turned down a job. The guy offered me five grand to write emails. I said, I just don't have time. Yeah, how fast could you do it with this? He goes, I could do it in a day.

Yeah.

And that includes setting it up. I go, what if it was set up Because I could do it in 10 minutes. So I went back and got the client obviously paid me the pittance that we're asking for this thing. But we are doing a certification for copywriters. Just so you know the peak, we're calling Copy Pro certified so you can become Copy Pro certified working with me individually. You work with me not individually, excuse me, in a small group. And over a course of four weeks, we teach you how to take both the light and the elite versions and how to take that and make that, make money for your clients. So a, you'll be certified to use it for copywriting and you'll be able to generate sales letters, a video sales letter. You'll be able to generate, of course, emails.

Nice.

You'll to be able, be able to go out and sell that service with what we call the 20% alteration. So all you have to do is alter 20% of the email. But if we've given you set 80, 20 rule, we've given you 80%. Giving you 80% of it. Just put 20% of your own individuality on top of it. That will make it your own unique thing. Right. And because all of our emails are regenerable, the odds against you coming out with the same email, even in your direct competitive space is really, really slow, slim. We still want you to individualize it. So, yeah, that's going to be a certification course. It's definitely, it's. It's a biz op for people that are serious about wanting to get in a copy.

And it's.

You'll leapfrog it. I mean, I mean, the way that you get into copywriting to begin with is you go, okay, go out and look at the top copywriters and start copying them.

Yeah.

What's even better than that is what if we gave you all of their swipe files and had you fill in the blanks to make you think the way that they already think. In other words, this is the verbs, the way that we think things in terms of verb action. Like when I talk to you, Brad, I want to help you. Blank. Brad, do you. Would you like to leverage your power to do blank? What am I doing? Verb pronoun subject. This is how copywriters talk. Yeah, I mean, we talk this way all the time. The average person might not talk that way. And so the email Copy Pro is built that way. By default, you have no choice but to use those kind of verbs and pronouns and structures. We force you into it. So as you're learning to write copy, you're learning oh my gosh, this verb is really cool here. Like, like automate. I never thought about that. Automate your blah blah, blah. Instead of like make more money online, automate your online business. Ooh, that's even better. Thought of automated if they didn't see in a drop down list or verbs to you. So you see what I'm saying?

Yeah, I do. And you know, the other nice part about this is it can. Well, here's the double edged sword it can make. It will probably make a lot of lazy copywriters out there who never become true masters. But at the same time it'll probably turn enough people onto copywriting who never probably would have pursued this and who go down the path and start reading this stuff and going through the questions and then once it starts to click like, wow, this is how a copywriter thinks. And it has, I could see it having the ability to, to give people enough taste of what real copy is like and have them go down the, the rabbit hole and just become true masters of the craft. People who might not ever have really discovered that they've got a talent for this stuff because you kind of are like. There is a degree of natural, you know, tendency to be a copyright or not. Some people just hate it and don't like it. Some of us hate it but are good at it. So we do it right.

There's a love hate relationship. I've never met a copywriter who didn't have that. I'm sure there's somebody out there like that. But Carlton definitely has a love hate relationship with it.

And, well, and what I like is it allows me to do the thing that I like the most, which is off the cuff. I turn on a recorder and just off the cuff and whiteboard and I just come up with the big ideas and what I want it to be. And the, you know, I may be brainstorming the primary solution and think about all that other stuff, the things that I absolutely hate is filling in all the little blanks, writing every single sentence and then second guessing myself and writing something and looking back and thinking, who was that that just wrote that I'm an idiot? Like I hate it. Cross it out.

Exactly. Yeah, he's second guessing. And the damn blinking cursor, it's blinking at you, it's mocking you. Jonathan Cronsack called me the other day and he's, he's, he's a client and he used to be the CEO of Digital Marketer and now he's the CEO of some other big freaking company. But he's like, dude, this is. I'll never have to go through that goddamn blinking cursor again. It's like mocking me.

That's so funny.

It's the mocking cursor effect, you know. So if. Yeah, so if we can save you that. If we. If all I did was help you get started with something, I give you an idea that went. Oh, that's a great idea. Just that that alone. Yeah, that alone is worth the cost of admission and times 100. But it's like. So that's, that's the value we want to bring to the goals. 100,000 markers out there.

So I love it. And so this, so this adds to the cache of other tools that you've got. So tell me if I might be missing something, but I know you have. It's celebrator S E L L E R A T O R cellarator which is for like video sales letters.

Right.

And you've got.

Yeah, video salesletters.com is easier but.

Oh nice.

But this goes the same place. So that's the machine for. For. For vsl. Here's what's interesting is that system that does over a billion a year for my customers just because it's just that lucrative. Right. This works that well. But we're taking that same formula and so people that want to want seller to better get it now because. Because we're going to have it only available inside the Copy Pro engine. The cool thing about that is, is once you fill out your entire year, there's the elite and there's the light. The elite niche. Once you fill out the elite niche, we already write an entire sales letter. A 6,000 word sales letter comes out of it. So likewise an 8,000 word video sales letter is coming out of it. So wow, it's intense.

So is all of the. It sounds like all of this stuff is going to end up being integrated into one large system called Copy Pro soon.

Yes, exactly. Copy Pro AI. Yeah. Because it literally is AI. It really is. It's what we call level one AI. Level one AI is where a human talks to another human, but she combines the elements. So rather than a machine going out and trying to figure out the elements, a machine is not going to be able to go out and find persuasive language. It can find things that you like. In the future we'll get copy that email so robust that we'll be able to send out. I know that Brad likes coffee in the morning and that Susie likes to tea in the afternoon and so you can Say, hey Brad, I hope you enjoyed your coffee this morning, by the way, I got something. Blah, blah, blah. And then Susie's email will read differently. That's going to come in the future. Eventually this will be on the cutting edge of that. You still need the copy that follows that stuff. So that's what a bot can do. Human beings can still do the rest of this. And for people who are interested in selling anything online, or copywriters, especially copywriter or agencies, then this is going to be a kind of a default tool. I hope that people can use and, and use it to generate the whole thing or use it just to get ideas. So it's the, Think of it as the ultimate swipe file. That's, that's another way.

It really is.

Yeah.

Only. Yeah, only times a thousand plus.

Yeah. Only swipe files are great, but swipe files don't interact.

Yeah, you still have to manually read them and pull elements out. And I'm doing that all the time thinking, okay, I want this piece in here and I like this piece. And it's like, ah, this starts to become a Frankenstein mess and everything. So no, I just love how this creates speed to speed and takes away the pain for one of the most excruciatingly painful parts of all marketing because it is also the single most important aspect is your sales copy. Like all the traffic in the world doesn't do you any good if you can't sell. And along with email, one of the things that I've been doing for myself for some of my clients is part of this is out of laziness because I hate creating sales pages and videos and everything else is I want to see how much I can sell with email alone. More and more and more. Because if you do a good enough job in there, you don't have to worry about all this other, you know, design and production, et cetera. Because I know I've literally bought very high ticket programs off just somebody sending me the right email.

Andre Chaperone does a really good job of that. And another guy, Travis Sego.

Travis Sego, Yep.

Travis. Yeah, Travis does a great job of that and that. So here's this interesting. Before video sales letters, I actually came up with that idea myself. I don't, I didn't, I don't think I created it. I came up with the idea to do it and I promoted my third book entirely through email because I was too lazy to create the sales page. And that worked. And so that whole sales letter email format kind of worked. And I forgot about It, I completely forgot about it. And then when I was creating Email Copy Pro, I got an email from BioTrust that was like 1500 words long, 2000 words long. I'm like, wow, it's a long freaking email. And it was a sales letter email. And so, so I texted Joel. I go, Joel, man. It's like, is this something you guys are doing now? He goes, yeah, we always send out a sales letter, a sales letter email before we go to send to the actual vsl. So we just liquidate the hottest customers.

Yeah.

And he goes, it works really well. That's awesome. So I put it an email Copy Pro. It's, it's, it's the whole sales letters in there and now we're dividing it out and how I sent it originally which is over five days because the VSL is broken into five parts. So you send it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and then you sets a week long. It's, it's basically a seven day power sale. And so you know, day one is just all about you in, you know, an introduction and a rapport building and day two is all about telling the story, etc. You know. And so you break it into those, those elements. And so yeah, so you're gonna have that inside Email Copy Pro as well.

That's beautiful. Now the. So on the pricing for Email Copy Pro, what are you, what are you charging for this right now? What can people get in if they want to try this out?

But yeah, we have a, we do. 997 is the, to get you in the door and that is to give you what we call the acceleration, the acceleration system, which is where we put you through the epic email setup. So you get set up super fast, within like 90 minutes you're started and you start sending out your first emails literally that same day and then it's 97 bucks a month from that point on. It's just, you know, we want skin in the game from our customers because we also give you 21 days of coaching calls with us. So you get 21 days of unfettered email access to our team. Plus you get 21 days or three days. So in other words, you're doing every Thursday where you get live coaching calls with my team. So any questions you have for regarding setup, you get that for 21 days. And for people that come on before we hit critical mass, we're just going to give that, that, we're going to extend that 21 days indefinitely.

Oh, that's beautiful. Now I mean what if some. But, but what if somebody does, they want to spend a little bit more money and just hire you to privately write sales or email copy or video sales letter for them, what would you charge then?

Well, I can just show you an email. I just, I just sent somebody 100 grand to write a BSL and this guy's emailing me back and forth. He goes, he goes, okay, so if I can sell this and get a commission for it, do you still want. I'm 100 grand, dude. So I've been 100 grand for, for a long time, wrote a BSL and I'm 1500 an email. And that's if you go to like Cult of Copy or if you go to any email or. Excuse me, any copywriting place on that has a lot of copywriters. I. I went to Cult of Copy and post pasted in here. It's in my. It's in my webinar for email copy pro. Hey, A Listers. I'm looking only for A Listers. What do you charge per email? And it went. The lowest that anyone was charging was 500 bucks an email. Harlan Kilstein was $2,500 an email plus 30% of the profits or something outrageous like that. So, you know, you've got. Those are what a Listers are charging. I'm doll. 500 an email plus 5%. So that's per email.

God, I'm so hesitant to even release this podcast because I want all my listeners to just pay me thousand fifteen hundred bucks an email. And I'll be like, yo, I got it done in a day. That's why you're paying me so quick.

I make one sale and you make a fortune.

So guys, as much as I want you to go to baconratbusiness.com email copy, I actually don't want you to do that. I want you to just pay me money and let me do that for you.

So, yeah, just pay him a lot more money. That's it. That's. We'll just keep that a lot more money. You can edit that part out, right?

Exactly. So. But I mean, I think you're doing some awesome stuff with this. And I know, I'm excited to, you know, jump in and check that out. Especially as I mentioned, I've got a client right now that I'm doing the email copy for. Hopefully he's not listening to this, but that.

They don't care, man.

No, they don't.

It's like if you clients only care about results, that's true. You get them. So if you just happen to Have a tool that gets. This is what really cracks me up. It's like somebody was saying this the other day to me. It's like a copywriter was like, yeah, well, if I use this to make copy for my clients and, you know, they find out about it, I go, well, what are you doing right now to make copy for your clients? He goes, well, I'm just writing. I go, no, you're not. Do you have a swipe all stack? Yeah. Okay, so you, you're actually studying other people's copy to write copy for your client? Well, that's what this is. The only difference, this only difference is this spits out what you're trying to think. So in other words, words, it teaches you how to think through it and it spits out different ways for you to say it, and then you can change it whatever you want. So you're cutting that, that research cut time down enormously. Yeah, you know, it's not even enormous decrease in research time. So, so, so, yeah, it's just a way. It's a different way of looking at it.

I love it. So, John, what's a. What's a nut you're trying to crack right now? I mean, obviously you'd love to get more people to hear about Email Copy Pro and, you know, to try it out, but is there anything going on in your. In your world, whether it's business and personal, whatever nut you're trying to crack and that might be, you know, people you're trying to meet, a skill you're trying to develop, money you're trying to raise, it doesn't really matter, but help jog the minds of myself and some of my listeners.

I appreciate the request. You know, I'm always. My passion for this past year and a half has been Email Coffee Pro and I, of course, I do things in the fitness world as well. So the fitness time is really coming up here pretty quickly. So I'm working on a couple of the fitness offers I have with one of the guys from BioTrust and a couple other guys. But really my passion right now is getting Email Copy Pro out to mass numbers of people. So I've talked to guys, I've talked to Russell, I've talked to Russell's team, they were there at ClickFunnels and a couple other guys to try to get some. To see if there's some partnership opportunities so we can get this out faster. In other words, you know, if I can, if I can give away a percentage of this and somebody gets a mass volume, it's Worth it to me. So that would be the one thing that I'm the most interested in, whether it be, you know, financial capital, I've been talking to some, some VC guys or it's just somebody coming on saying, hey, I can, I can take this to immediately 10,000 members and I want X percentage for doing it. Then. Yeah, that's, that's awesome. That's the one big itch that I'm trying to scratch right now. And that is big. And then I'm writing a passion project that's been in the works for a year that's coming out next year on love and relationships, which is, that's the thing I'm really fired up about as far as outside of copywriting. So yeah, that's already got me on talking on a stage next week and talking, you know, podcast about it. The book's not even done yet. So it's really. People are just. Yeah. JJ Virgin's book publisher or I don't know if it's a marketer or publisher came up to me at her event and just said the name of my book to me. She looked at me, she goes, I have to work with you. I got done, you know, so. No, that's exciting. That's really exciting.

That is exciting. I like it.

Yeah, it's my, it's my favorite topic in the world. So even more than copywriting. I know that's hard to. But yeah, so it's, it's. Those are the two big things in free, I guess.

I love it. So if there's anybody out there that these things that John just mentioned jog something for you, John. What's that? Is there a good way for people to get a hold of you?

Yeah, the best way to get a hold of me, I try to mean I just like to be accessible. So just my email. Jbinson.com is my initials and J O N B E N I.

Awesome. What's your Social Security number?

Yeah, it's.

There we go. ATM pin, all those things.

It's covered in bacon at the moment.

So I can't get exactly, exactly. Man, this has been, this has been fantastic for everybody out there who wants to go and check this out. I've got links in the show notes. Go to baconrapbusiness.com forward/email copy and you will see everything that John's got and you can give it a try. I mean this is really kind of a no brainer. If you sell things online, if you help people sell things online, you need persuasive copy to do it. Email copy almost always even comes before, especially if you have a list, even a sales page and everything else, because you have to build the relationship with them. And this is one of the absolute best ways to do it. By the way, one thing we didn't even talk about is I would imagine that at least lot of the email copy, depending on which templates and whatnot you're using, could also be repurposed as social media posts, Facebook posts, etc. Because a lot of it's the same, the same overall structure.

Oh, absolutely. And people do that all the time. We actually have an ad generator in email copy pro bullet generator. Oh, damn. Headlines right now. And you can use those headlines as ads, you know, like obviously banner ads. It's very flexible, man. It's very, very flexible. But I want to get, I want to impart with one quick strategy that someone can use if they want to liquidate this thing really, really quickly, please. If you're a copywriter or if you want to make money in copy and you approach somebody and say, listen, pay me a thousand bucks to write you three emails. And if those three emails don't make you back far more money so they have a product they want to sell, don't make you back far more money than that thousand bucks, then don't hire me. But if you it does hire me to write a sales letter for you. So you can use emails as an intro to get a sales letter job where you're making 25 to $75,000 to write a sales letter. So you can say, yeah, so somebody's wanting to hire you.

Think about it.

If you're wanting a copywriter, you're wanting to write a sales letter and they don't know you, say, well, I want to see how good you could do. Okay, great, then pay me a thousand bucks or 1500 bucks or whatever that you want to charge and let me write you three emails. Send those three emails out and tell me how they do. Right?

And then that thousand dollars just paid for your. I love that. And you can even say, listen, Normally I charge $1,000 an email. I'll charge you, you know, whatever. I've heard of that. I've heard of somewhat of a similar strategy with giving out for people who have like a Facebook training course and like, listen, you know, let's say it's a $500 course or whatnot or a thousand dollar course. You can go to, you know, people to say, listen, yeah, I'm happy to run your Facebook ads for you. In fact, I'll do it for free for the first month or two weeks or whatever. Startup fee, like I'm not going to charge a management fee, but there is a startup fee of like 500 or $1,000 because there's a lot of heavy lifting on the front end and you literally use that to buy the course. Now I'm not saying that this is the best thing to do because you might not be a good Facebook advertiser and just learning how to do it. There's a difference here. But yours quite literally is if you have the thousand dollars, you can go create the output like you said in a day and it's ready. But this is such a cool concept and I'm gonna, I'm gonna make sure that people that I shine some light on this because I think that's such a, such a no brainer.

I appreciate that Brad. Thanks man.

Absolutely. Guys, I hope you've enjoyed this episode of Bacon Wrapped Business. I always do my best to bring you the best and the brightest and the strategies and the topics that I am currently working on, wanting to learn about and always just demonstrating how I'm trying to sharpen my skill set with the people who come on the show. John is no different. I've learned quite a bit from this. It's not just a show and tell. But I would not have had John on here if I didn't think that he would just absolutely floor you with the stuff that you can learn. And go out there and apply. I highly encourage you to give email copy pro a shot once more. The link is in the show notes. It's but baconwrappedbusiness.com Email copy to check everything out. Give it a try and let me know if you did send me an email to askbradaconwrappedbusiness.com I've got a special surprise for you. Just send me an email after you've purchased that. Maybe send me the receipt. And if you have liked this episode and you think more people need to hear about it, share it on social media. Tag me. Tag John on social media. Let us know how badass it was and how much you've gotten out of it. And if you're not a subscriber to the show, go ahead and hit that subscribe button on itunes or stitcher or on the website or wherever you happen to be listening to. I thank you very much for your time and listening to John and I talk about this stuff today. I hope it helps you grow your business. And once more, if you have any questions need help. Need a second opinion on what the heck is working or what's not working so well. Email me. Ask Brad at Bacon Wrap Business. Till next time, guys. Talk to you soon. Thanks a lot, John.

Thank you, Bradley.