Is The E5 CAMP Marketing Method from Todd Brown A Better Way To Market?

How do you make business problems disappear? Wrap them in bacon. For business owners, marketing execs, and anyone trying to grow your business, pump your profits and make more while doing less. Welcome to Bacon Wrapped Business with Brad Costanzo. Sizzling hot business advice guaranteed to make you fat profits. Every week, our chefs will serve you proven recipes for ramping up your revenue. Now here's your host, Brad Costanzo.

What's up, everybody?

It's Brad Costanzo. Welcome to a video episode of Bacon Wrapped Business. I am joined here with my friend Todd Brown, who I'll bring on and introduce you in just a moment. But we're going to have some fun today here on Facebook Live and we are going to. Let me do that for you. There we go. We are going to talk about some stuff that Todd is doing. I'll introduce him in just a moment. But if you are listening to this on the podcast, because I am going to be ripping the audio from this video, then I will put a link in the show notes to click over and check out the video that we're going to do right here, right now. By the way, at any point that you want to ask any questions of me or Todd, feel free to just put that in the comments. I'll see them and I'll show Todd and we'll get it going. So very quickly, let me introduce you. I'm going to bring him on right here to Todd Brown. This is Todd over here. Todd, say hi to everybody.

Hey, everybody.

So quick introduction here, and it's an informal introduction because I've known you for years and in fact, about two years ago, I think it's been that long. You were one of the early guests on my show, Bacon Wrap business, and you are still like in the top five most downloaded episodes. It was that epic. And I still get emails going, man, that was an amazing show. We talked about a lot of cool stuff. The show is just getting going too. And even with the more audiences, they come back and find you.

So.

Todd is one of the smartest marketers you'll ever meet. And he. I'm not just one of the guys saying that. He's been around this block for a very, very long time. He's been. Todd, how long you been doing online.

Marketing for about 15 years.

Fifteen years, right. That's longer than me. I've been at this maybe for about eight or nine years at the moment. And the thing that I love, we talked about this on one of the last. On the last episode, we talked a lot about was it Eugene Schwartz's the five levels of market sophistication, which once more, there'll be a note, podcast, show notes, and here on Facebook for you guys to go check that out. I don't want to drill down too much, but I know that's part of what we're going to be talking about today. I think of you as a badass MFER marketing funneler, which is kind of funny because that's also your, like, MF automation badass MFer. I think you need to, like, own that marketing funnel.

You never know. Maybe. So.

A few months ago, I got an invite that I unfortunately couldn't attend to this E5 camp masterclass live event with some of the most brilliant marketers down there in Florida. I wasn't able to make it, much to my chagrin, but I know from several people who got back and talked about what they learned there and some of the new methods of really creating a marketing funnel and a sales system to educate and encourage your prospects to buy without being overtly salesy and hypey, et cetera, and how just kind of revolutionary it was. Right? So I want to go into that a little bit right now. And for anybody else who just early on, who likes what we're talking about and if this resonates, Todd has got a couple of videos and actually a few more coming up real soon. At any point, you can simply go check out Bradlovese5.com and you can see the videos of this masterclass that Todd's starting to release and starting to explain what, what you can learn here. But, man, let's. Let's kind of dive in to. I'm going to take this off for the moment.

Let's kind of, by the way, whoever registered that domain is a pure genius.

Pure genius. By the way, we've got. We've got several people on here. Just real quick, I want to give some shout outs. Deb Cole. I don't know if you know Deb.

Hey, Deb.

Dave Gonzalez. John Rowley is watching and commenting, and I'm sure we've got some other viewers.

So sweet.

Let's get going, man.

What does.

What is new in the world of marketing? What is this whole E5 camp methodology that everybody is talking about and. Yeah, give us an overview, then I got some detailed questions.

Yeah, first and foremost, man, let me say this. The live training in Orlando with, you know, like you said, some of the, you know, some of the best marketers on the planet was just an unbelievable honor for me. It was, you know, there were points where I couldn't believe that they were sitting there listening to me share my stuff. And so it really does show you that, man. Like if, if I could do it, truly anybody can do. You know, it's funny. The E5 camp method is a process for putting together a customer, generating marketing campaign. A campaign that brings you predictable, steady new customer sales day in and day out, really, regardless of your product, regardless of your price point, and regardless of how crowded or saturated the marketplace is. And at the core, even though it's insanely like powerful at the core, it's so simple, Brad. It's so simple because what it's about is it's really about putting together and I know we'll get into this, so I'm kind of giving a tease, right? It's about putting together a simple education based marketing message that creates demand, like buying demand, excitement, hope for your product or service before, before you ever even talk about your product or service. It's truly at its core, it's marketing not selling, right? It's marketing, not selling. Selling is all about the product. It's all about the price point, the features, the advantages, the benefits. It's what you do when you're talking to a prospect that, right, already has an interest in your type of product and they want to know what's better about your product compared to all the others. Marketing is what you do with the masses of prospects that maybe don't even know about, you don't know about your product or are unsure of what they need, are unsure of the different solutions out there. And its purpose, its aim, its objective is to really make selling unnecessary, as Peter Drucker said, to make selling superfluous. Right? Superfluous. And, and so it's really all about how do you do that? How do you get attention in a crowded marketplace, how do you stand out, create that engagement so that even if you are in a crowded marketplace, you get your ads, clicked your emails, open your, your opt in pages, get the, get the leads, how do you engage prospects so that they're hooked all the way through your marketing? And then how do you present a marketing message without being sleazy, without being scammy, without being hypey, without having to resort to all the kind of the obnoxious sales tricks, how do you actually lead them to really, truly want your product, to have hope in your product, excitement in your product before you ever even make your offer?

Absolutely. And that's a huge undertaking and it's something that a lot of people don't really appreciate. How much goes into the to marketing and how much goes into doing it. Right. You know, in a world of info, products and marketing, education, etcetera, there's so many trick, you know, tricks and tactics and height filled BS that maybe works one day, doesn't work the next. One of the things I've always loved about you is you do approach this like a real scholar of the craft and you're not, you know, it's something that works evergreen and always because it has much more to do with the psychology of the marketplace and how to really respect the customer and what or the prospect and what they want by, like you said, educating them and creating that desire, but doing so in a way that they feel good about the purchase and they feel like I made an educated and informed decision at the same time. I'm really excited about purchasing what this person wants to do. Yeah, crappy trickery.

Yeah. No, man, well said, dude. And I think you hit on something that's a really valuable lesson for everybody and that is the difference between strategies and tactics. You know, tactics are, you know, the things that are usually the sexiest, right? Tactics are, you know, the strategies, let's say, of persuasion and influence, things like commitment and consistency, reciprocity, social proof, authority, liking, or, you know, typical Robert Cialdini stuff, right? Those are strategies. The strategy of tapping into the law of reciprocity, the strategy of providing social proof, those things are evergreen. They work because of how we are wired as human beings. Tactics are the way that you execute on those strategies. Tactics are the things that you actually do in your campaign to provide social proof, to tap into reciprocity. And those are the things that are kind of easy, they're easy to do, they're easy to model, they're easy to find. And it's more compelling to think that, well, if I add a certain plugin to my funnel, that that's the answer that my results are all going to come about from that. But the reality is, yeah, I do too, man. Like I say it, I say it all the time that, like, look, if there was a push button solution, I would not be on this Facebook Live right now. I would be pushing the button. You know what I mean? So that's the truth. But the thing, the beautiful thing is that tactics change. Tactics evolve as markets become more sophisticated, as technology changes. And you, you know, all of your viewers, all of your listeners, you really want to become a student of strategy, not a student of tactics. You want to, first and foremost, when you look at another campaign that's working, that's effective, that that's compelling to you. You want to ask yourself, you know, why are they saying this? Why are they saying it here rather than simply copying what it is that they're doing? Dive into the strategy behind why they're doing what they're doing, why they're saying what they're saying, why they have the widget there, like what is the strategy? And become a student of that. That's also why with all the marketing books out there, the only marketing books that I really read are the ones that are typically decades old, right? Classics. The Eugene Schwartz. Exactly, the classics. The Breakthrough Advertising, the. The. The Robert Collier letter book, the Vic Schwab, John Caples. Because those are based on strategy and those don't change because human beings are human beings. But I don't read tactical books because tactics come in and out of fashion, man. And so I just believe that the more your listeners and viewers understand strategy and become students of strategy, the better they will be at marketing.

Well, realistically, I work a lot as a consultant, and I know you work with probably some clients, et cetera. And it's the strategy that is really the most valuable aspect of it because a lot easier to hire somebody to do the tactics, and it's a lot harder to understand the strategy behind it and how it all fits together and how it underpins. And you have to, in a lot of ways, become somewhat of a jack of all trades because you have to understand all of the various aspects about the marketing message, the channel, the distribution, et cetera.

The beauty is like. And let me say this too, Brad, because I think that what you're hitting on is so, so valuable and it's rarely talked about. So the other thing to really think about and consider is this, that when you are a student of tactics, you have to constantly be in information gathering mode, right? Because tactics are constantly changing. And so what you know today about Facebook advertising, for example, and the different tactical ways of implementing that is going to be different in six months, in eight months. And that means that you constantly have to be learning to just keep up with the changes. And so what happens is over time, your marketing chops tactically never really, never really evolved because you're constantly having to learn and relearn things. But when you're a student of strategy, strategy, which is evergreen, your marketing chops improve over time because those things that you learn, as you learn them, as you master them, they don't change, they don't go out of fashion. So your marketing chops just get better and better and better. That's how you become a better marketer over time by focusing on strategy so that you're building on top of stuff that's, that's not going out of fashion. And so that's one thing. The other thing that you said that I don't want to breeze over because I really do think that it's so important for everybody. And that is, you know, you talked about, you mentioned that, that there are, you know, like there's so many, there's so many different plugins, there's so many different widgets, there's so many different page builders. The reality out, the reality is that it's never been easier for marketers to publish pages to create funnels. And there's never been more information out there about creating funnels, setting up opt in pages, setting up upsells, downsells, setting up VSLs. But yet we still see so many marketers struggling to generate sales and consistent sales and grow their business. I really, truly believe my thesis, if you will, is that it's because of two reasons. One is because I believe that a lot of marketers have unfortunately been sold on this idea that the key to having a successful marketing campaign is to having the right pages, having the right model. It's having an opt in page with the right format and layout, having the right, you know, VSL layout, having the right order form with a bump offer and an upsell. And while those things are important, those things are not what make or break a marketing campaign. Those are not the things that determine whether you generate sales or not. That's why there are people that are struggling to generate sales using every different type of funnel model out there. Low price, high price, mid tier evergreen webinar, live webinar, multi part video sequences, tripwires, you know, free plus shipping. There are still, there are people struggling regardless of the model and even when they switch models. And that's because two things. One, because I believe that they grossly underestimate the task at hand. They've been led to believe that it's easy to lead a prospect to whip out their wallet and buy. Right? That it's easy to build that trust to motivate them enough to get them to see why they should want your product or service. And two, I believe that it's because they've never really been taught the core of how to structure a compelling marketing message that creates that demand, that that leads prospects to want the product before the product is ever even introduced.

So let's dive in to some specifics.

Sure.

Let's talk about some of the methodology. Let's talk about maybe some of the things that you've seen that aren't working as much anymore, if there's any specifics there. But I'd love to get into this E5 camp method. Why is it called E5? What are some of the key components? And as I've mentioned before, at any point, if you want to go watch the two videos that I've watched on here, you can go check out bradlovese5.com you bet your but that is an affiliate link. So if you end up purchasing something that Todd eventually has to offer to you, which is not right now, not today, but you will absolutely be putting money in my pocket and I will absolutely be taking my wife out for a nice dinner. Hopeful watching this. That being said, BradLovesy5.com will help people understand a little bit more about what you're talking about. That being said, I don't let any of my guests off without giving some of the tactics that they would rather just have people pay for. So that's what we're going to talk about today. So I and let me preface for the, for the audience here, I've watched the first two videos and especially the second one, you talked about the unique mechanism. And we get, you know, we, we talked about Eugene Schwartz earlier and how there's the five levels of market sophistication. And just to kind of preface it, because I don't want to belabor this too much, but in the very beginning, you make a claim as a marketer and then somebody else comes along and makes a bigger claim, like it works better, it works faster, it works stronger. And then somebody introduces a mechanism in which to make it work. For instance, weight loss pills. First time you take a pill says, hey, this pill makes you lose weight. That's all you needed to say, Right? And then eventually it's like, well, this has garcinia cambogia. So that's the mechanism that makes it work. And then somebody comes out with a stronger mechanism and on and on. So in a lot of areas here, I know that in part two of the video, you talk about this unique mechanism, and I'd love for you to expound on that a little bit more. I've kind of given some people the foundation and anybody who's got a good marketing knowledge will understand that. But let's talk about the unique mechanism in a little more detail, not only what it is, but maybe if you have some examples of some companies who are doing it right.

Yeah, I love this man And I love the question, and I love this piece of the E5 camp method. This is one of the most valuable things that I could honestly share with anybody, any marketer. And so, first and foremost, let's take a step back for one second and just address something that you shared, because I want to point out a mistake that people are. That marketers make sometimes. So you talked about how early on, when people weren't exposed to the quantity of marketing messages and advertisements and claims and whatnot that they are today, when a company came out with a new product and they were able to make a promise, a promise of transformation, of result, of change that the prospect would experience, all they had to do, like you said, was make that promise. That's all they had to say, because nobody else had ever made that promise to prospects. So for prospects, it was something new and different. It was unique. And it got their attention and created the engagement because they wanted to know how. They wanted to know, what's this pill that I can take to lose weight? But then we see that evolution, like you said, into the second stage. And the second stage is where you see folks that are just blowing up the claim. They're enlarging the claim. Take this pill and you'll lose 10 pounds. Take this pill and you'll lose 17 pounds. Take this pill and you'd lose, you know, 32 inches, 17 pounds, and yada, yada, yada. And what happens is a lot of marketers, even still today, they try to compete. They try to stand out in that crowded marketplace by screaming a louder promise, by just enlarging the claim even more. And what happens is in a lot of markets, they first and foremost, either the claim becomes it's not believable anymore, it's not credible, it's not truthful, or the market just becomes deaf to it because they see so many people making these enlarged claims. And so that's when Gene Schwartz talked about this idea of introducing the unique mechanism, the mechanism behind your product. And the mechanism behind your product is how your product works. How does your product actually deliver the promise? How does it deliver the results? What is it about your product or service that fulfills the promise? How does it strip off the weight? How does it grow the big, lush, green lawn? How does it alleviate your pain? How does it grow hair? How does it deliver on the primary promise of your product? Now, the thing is that every product or service can have a unique mechanism, because there are three ways to create a unique mechanism, to identify unique mechanism. And the truth is that two of the three ways is a pure marketing invention. So the first way, right, is really, you know, we call it the intrinsic mechanism, right? And the intrinsic mechanism is when you truly have a unique mechanism, you have a unique algorithm in your software, you use a unique bodywork method in your massage practice, right? You have a unique mechanism recipe behind your, your birthday cakes. When you truly have a unique element, right, Then there, there, there's, you know, kind of what, what I would refer to as like the unspoken mechanism. And the unspoken mechanism is when the, the there is when your product or service delivers the result not with something that's necessarily unique to just your product. It may be found in other products or services, but no other competitors are talking about it, right? No other competitors are bringing it to the market. And so that allows you to, you to name that mechanism and bring it to the market. And when you bring it to the market, even though it's not unique amongst competing products and services, it's unique in the mind of the prospect. And so that's the second method, the third method is really all about naming, giving a title to your method or process or system. If you have an information product, for example, and you teach a five step program, rather than saying I have five steps to Facebook advertising, it's naming that five step, giving a title to that, that framework. And we see that all the time with the Tripwire, which is really a low priced offer, right? We see that all over the place.

Now the, perhaps, perhaps E5 is a unique.

Absolutely. The E5 is kind of the overarching unique mechanism, right? It's not here's how to produce a better marketing campaign. It's not these are the five steps to designing, launching, testing and scaling a marketing campaign. It's a unique framework and so it has a title. Now the thing that I want everybody to understand and I want to drill even deeper here, the thing that I want and then I'm going to give you an example. The thing that I want everybody to understand here is that when you have a unique mechanism, when you name a unique mechanism in your product or service, it first and foremost allows you. And get this, this is the twist on Gene Schwartz. This is what we could call this Gene Schwartz 2.0. It allows you to create a marketing campaign about the unique mechanism, not about the product or service. It allows you to put together an education based marketing message that shows your prospects why the unique mechanism is the best solution for their needs and wants right now, why and how it's superior to the common mechanisms found in other products. Or services. So it allows you to put together an education based message, a message that delivers value, a message that enlightens your prospects, a message that builds goodwill, amend you as an authority. A message that actually teaches and opens your prospect's mind to why they want the unique mechanism. Now the beauty is when you start to understand that the beauty is that it sets up the sale for your product or service. Because by the end of your marketing message, they want the unique mechanism and the because you've educated them, you've taught them, you haven't pitched them, you haven't tried to sell them, you've educated them, you've educated them. They want it and the only place it could be found is in your product or service. Does that make sense, Brad?

It absolutely does. Do you know Mike Lovich?

Sure.

He just. Do you see the post? Do you see his question on the screen?

The aisle being the aisle instead of being on the aisle, does he mean by that? What do you mean? I don't know, maybe being the isle.

Michael, why don't you.

I guess, you know, you know what I think I do. You know, it's really like this, you know, it's interesting. He said, you know, if I understand him correctly, he's, he's. What he's saying is extremely profound. It's all roads lead to you, right? Like all roads lead to you. At the end, you've just excited them, you've given them hope that they could finally experience the results that they've been after. Because you're teaching them about something new and different, something they haven't tried before, something they haven't been exposed to before, something they haven't been offered before. And you've opened their eyes, their mind and their heart to why it is perfect for them. You're not talking about your product. Remember, the unique mechanism and your product are two different things. Your product delivers the unique mechanism, right? Like, just like in my case, like let's, let's look at it. The unique mechanism, we could say is the E5 camp method. The product is the E5 camp masterclass. The only way to learn the E5 camp method, the only way to get it and use it is to go through the E5 camp masterclass. Just like you look at this, and this is really interesting and instructive. You look at our buddy Ryan Levesque, right? One of the best. Like, I love the dude. He is, you know, I consider him a brother from another mother and one of the sharpest marketers out there and a phenomenal entrepreneur. When he talks in his marketing, he's talking about the Ask Method, a process of questioning, a process of identifying segments within your market. One of the savviest things that any direct response marketer can do. Understand the segments that you're dealing with. Right. He's not simply talking about surveys, he's not simply talking about quizzes, which you could go and learn anywhere. He's talking about his unique mechanism, his unique framework, the Ask Method. The product is the Ask Method Masterclass. Right. So by the end of his marketing message, you're like, man, I need to learn this Ask Method. I need to learn, learn how to use this so that I know the segments I'm dealing with. I know these buckets, I understand who I'm talking to. Right. And the only place that you can learn the Ask Method is in the Ask Method Masterclass. So he has educated, open their minds, right. To why they want the Ask Method. They want it. And then he says, and the beauty is here, I put together an unbelievable no brainer offer for you to get it with this product. Right. So beautiful.

That is, that is. Now you mentioned in one of the videos that you did, you talked a little bit about the Beachbody and P90X and how they were kind of floundering, their infomercials bombed until their unique method or mechanism was muscle confusion.

Yeah.

All of a sudden it's like, oh, now, now they're not selling P90X, they're selling muscle confusion. And we're the only ones who know how to do that, obviously, because we've created it. And now in order if you want to utilize muscle confusion to get the results, you have to buy P90X in.

Order to get that. Yeah. And it's so insanely beautiful, like when you get it, like for those that you know are listening or watching, like you, I want you to ponder that later. So you know, so Beachbody, the company behind P90X product is P90X DVD is in a home workout, workout system. But the unique mechanism, the piece of their product, of their program that delivers the results is like you said, Brad, is this muscle confusion. Their methodology of doing exercise taps into this whole idea of muscle confusion. And they explain and show how the common methods, the common mechanisms lead to the plateau effect where your body adapts, it no longer responds. And what you need to continue to get, to continue to build muscle, continue to keep your metabolism churning, continue to burn fat, is you need to tap into muscle confusion. And that's what P90X delivers. And so right by the end of that. You get the fact that I get it. You know what? Maybe the program I've been following isn't really working because I'm reaching the plateau effect. Maybe that's why all those exercise programs didn't work. Maybe that's what I've been missing. So they get hope. They have hope. They have. They have excitement. And you're absolutely right. In the New York Times, they talked about how their early infomercials didn't have a unique mechanism. Their early infomercials bombed. They tried. I think it was 14 different variations until they came upon muscle confusion. And today they're, you know, whatever it is, a $1 billion, some crazy number. I forget I shared it in there. 23 million customers. And the beauty is that in that video, in video two, I share a clip from Tony Horton, the man behind, you know, P90X, where he says, we came up with the name muscle confusion. That was a name that they came up with. That was the name that they felt best described their unique mechanism. They didn't wait for a scientific study. They didn't write. They named it. They named it, and it sold multiple millions and millions and millions of customers. That's the power of having the right unique mechanism at the core of your marketing message. Awesome.

Now, in. In the. In the launch of the E5 method and camp. Well, it's E5 camp, right. So there's a little bit of both. The E5 camp meth launch that's going on right now.

Yeah.

How are you drinking your own Kool Aid? How are you utilizing the methodology that you teach in order to promote your masterclass? Which, by the way, everybody you can get by going to BradLovez5.com.

Yeah, awesome question, man. You know, first and foremost, you know, every campaign that I create, if. If we went back and we could certainly do this at some point in the future, you and I might be fun for your. Your viewers. And we dissected, let's say, the last five campaigns that we create. You will find that in every single campaign, there is always a unique mechanism at the core of it. And the bulk of the marketing campaign is education about the unique mechanism. In this case, in the case of the E5 Camp Masterclass launch, what you'll find is that the bulk of the first three videos. And I say this all the time. I say that right. Like the. And this is a rough kind of rule of thumb, every marketing campaign that I create is typically 75% marketing, 25% selling. And when I say selling, it's the Presentation of the offer and over the top, superior, irresistible, no brainer offer. Right. So 75% is marketing, 25% is selling. 75% is about the unique mechanism and about how and why it is exactly what the prospect needs. And so in the case of the, of this series, I'm elaborating on things that were talking about right now. I'm demonstrating why you need a unique mechanism like in there, like and, and the talking, you know, like the unique mechanism and identifying the right unique mechanism and giving it the right name for your product or service is one of the engineering steps of the E5 campaign. So by talking about it and teaching about it inside this launch series, I am teaching about why the unique mechanism works. Like the E5 camp method is the overarching framework that in and of itself is a unique mechanism, you could say. But then it's made up of several different steps that in and of themselves are unique mechanisms. Like the idea of building a unique mechanism into your campaign. It's getting very confusing with all these. Well.

Can you explain what like E5 and camp just in general kind of mean.

Yeah, so acronyms. Yeah. So CAMP stands for customer acquisition Marketing Protocol. It's the process that I use to create all of our front end, you know, our new customer acquisition campaigns. Creating a front end campaign, which is a marketing campaign designed to turn prospects into new customers, new clients, new buyers. A back end campaign is marketing that you do with existing clients and customers to continue to deliver value and build lifetime customer value. And it's where your profit is in this business. Creating those two campaigns are two different, they require two different approaches. Right. The most difficult is creating the campaign for the, for the front to turn prospect into a buyer. The process that I use is a five stage process. E5, there are five E's, five stages. The first stage is examine and that's really where we dig into three, three pieces. We dig into competitors. What are they saying, what are they presenting, what are their mechanisms, what are their promises? Right. We need to know what it is that they're saying so that we're able to come up with a unique mechanism. If we don't know what competitors are doing and saying, then we could come up with a mechanism that's being repeated already in the market. We examine the prospects to identify again their feelings, their wants, their desires, their emotions. We use what's called a web analysis. Wants, emotions, beliefs. We identify what level on the prospect awareness pyramid they are. We go through all that and then we examine the product and we're looking into the product so that we understand we're able to find the unique mechanism. We start with competitors so we know what they're already saying so we don't duplicate it, right? We dig into the product. So we find the unique mechanism and all of the benefits and whatnot. And then we go and we look at prospects and so we know what it is that they want, desire, et cetera. The second stage is the big stage. That's engineering. That's where we put together what we call an E5 campaign. That's for example, where one of the elements of an E5 campaign is the unique mechanism. But we go through the big marketing idea, we go through the lead. What you say in the first 300 to 850 words of your campaign, structuring your marketing argument and how you put together that education based message. And we go through what I call the structure or constructing of a sin offer, superior, irresistible, no brainer offer. Then in the third stage. The third stage is evaluate. That's where you actually test your new campaign as what's called a minimum viable funnel. It's just a fast way of getting data to confirm that we've got a profitable campaign without building out the full campaign, without the full. Without your email follow up sequence, without your upsells, without your downsells. It's a way to reduce risk, time and cost to confirm that you've got a profitable campaign. In the fourth stage, that's what we call enhance. And we enhance every campaign with three additional sequences. Right. Like we go through how you. We go through the offer sequence. Right. We go through the, the add on sequence. Like your upsells down sells. We don't typically, we don't use upsells. We use like a reverse add on which we could get into. You're enhancing the minimum viable funnel. You're turning the minimum viable funnel from the evaluate stage into a full blown campaign. And then the fifth stage is expand. And that's where you expand your reach. You expand your new customers, you expand your traffic channels, you expand your audiences, you expand your budgets. That's how you're able to really just scale your campaign like crazy. That's when you shift from marketing to scaling.

Awesome. I love that. And by the way, my camera and my thing froze. You can still hear me, right?

Yep, I can hear you and see you moving A. Okay. On my screen.

Yeah, yeah, I've got the like I'm on my computer here and I'm getting a little, the little swirly ball. Oh, we're back I was getting a little swirly ball. I was like, do not knock me off of this.

You're good to me. You look good to me.

All right, so I love that, man, this making money thing and convincing people to buy sounds like a lot of hard work. A lot of thought has to go into this. Like you said, it's not just a push button. Push button, make money. Which I think, for those of us I'm proud to know that I study this stuff. Like, you know, it's my obsession. I know it's yours, and it's. It's one of the reasons that I feel strong about, by the way. Like, this diverges off topic a little bit about, you know, if the economy ever goes to crap or when it does, or if things go bad and we hear about the robots replacing, you know, most people's jobs, this is the kind of stuff that makes you, you know, irreplaceable and invaluable because you understand the human psychology of what causes people not only to act, but to act in their best interests and helps, you know, create the. Or keep the wheels of the, you know, economy moving.

Yeah, but I think you said it. You know what, man? I say it like this, and I think you. You nailed it, dude. Like, you know what, the thing that I love about this, like, you know, is this is about teaching people how to fish rather than simply giving them the fish. Because when you understand how to do that, when you. When you learn this method and you have the ability to create a marketing message for almost any product at almost any price point in almost any marketplace, you have the ability to generate money at will. I don't want to make it sound like it's some atm, but that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that you have the ability to partner on a venture and grow a business. You have the ability to launch a new venture and. And grow it. You have the ability to promote a product and know that it's going to work. Yes, it takes effort. I wish it didn't, you know, like, I wish it didn't. But the beauty is that if you're willing, if you're committed to your dream of having your own business that gives you the income to live life on your own terms, then you should be excited by the idea of learning the skills, the method that can make that a reality. Like, you know, I don't want to, you know, like, look, you know, I don't want to beat a dead horse, but, you know, look, I wish the push Button stuff worked. It doesn't. I've tried it. I've tried it and I've spent a lot of money over the years on it. I wish it did, but it doesn't. And I think that for folks, they should be okay with that, right? They be okay. That doesn't mean that you, you can't achieve your dream. It just means that it's not going to include a simple button and it's going to, it's going to involve you learning a new method, a different way of marketing. But the beauty is, Brad, that with this type of approach you can set up one campaign that becomes an evergreen campaign that can build your business for months and months. I built the back of my company of, of MFA off of a single funnel for something like 18 months. I had for 18 months one single new customer acquisition campaign that was just generating new customers from cold traffic day in and day out. One campaign.

That's beautiful. Was that, was that webinar based or was that.

No, that was, that was video based. That was a multi part video sequence for a product that was 497 bucks.

Kind of like an evergreen launch style or.

Yeah, yeah, without the, you know, with. We gave folks the ability to like at the end of video one, they could click a button and go to video two if they wanted. So folks had the ability to consume the whole thing in one sitting if they, if they wanted. But yeah, and just for, you know, 18 months, one single, you know, almost 18 months, one single campaign. So the beauty is that this isn't about like creating a campaign today and then you got to create another funnel in a month or six weeks. You're constantly, this is about like look, you put in if you, if you're willing to put in, you know, 45 days, call it 60 days for argument's sake. You could walk away with an evergreen marketing campaign that builds your business for months and months. If not, you know, a year plus.

Absolutely. Can I ask some self serving advice?

Of course. Cool.

So I am going through this right now with a client of mine and I just got a, I just got an email where we were talking about this from marketing friend of ours. I don't know if you know Matt Wolf.

Yes, sure.

He was like, hey, I have to go right now but I'm looking forward to listening to the rest of the Todd Brown episode but thought you'd like to hear. Yeah, you probably can't see this but people are like, oh yeah, Todd Brown, love him and et cetera. So here is one of the marketing Campaigns that I'm working on generating right now for one of my clients. And the reason I bring it up is because there is potentially a unique mechanism here. And I'm thinking about the best way to frame this and I'll talk about who it is and whatever because somebody may like this. So in the real estate investment market, people who buy and flip houses for real estate, there's a lot of courses out there and how to do this and software, etc. This company is called REI Vault reivault.com when you go to the webpage, this is not the funnel that I set up. This is the previous one and we're, we're improving this. But that said, they're a real estate, they're a services company for real estate investors. So they're not teaching people how to do it, but they're. If you're a real estate investor, Flipper, they have what they call shared services. So they put together an entire marketing and back office operations company for investors. They come in, they pay one fee, and they handle really about 80% of all of the grunt work and all of the stuff so that real estate investors simply have to field the leads, make the calls. Right. And it's really, really unique in the entire marketplace because everybody else that I found is either A, they are teaching people how to do it and just giving them tools, or B, they are, you know, maybe it's a mastermind, you know, kind of thing. Or C, they are like a virtual assistant agency. So here, come hire our virtual assistants and then you can hire them and train them on your system to go do your things. The unique mechanism of shared services is, hey, we've built the mechanism. I mean, we know we've built the machine. We're letting you piggyback on top of this and we do all this stuff for you. Right?

Yeah.

So in trying the challenges here.

Well, let me ask you this, let me, let me ask you this first. So are there other companies in the market that are offering shared services?

Not that I've seen.

Okay, so hang on, let's talk about this for one second. So, so, and this is, this is when things get super easy, actually. So. Right, so if there's nobody else offering shared services, then you really have. That is the unique mechanism. That is the unique mechanism. Then it's really just about showing them how they can alleviate the problem that they're having related to not having shared services. So all the things, all the problems, all the issues, all the pain points that they experience day in and day out that Are there because they're trying to do things without shared services. Now you have the ability to say all of those things can disappear because of shared services. And here's why. Right now, if, now for everybody's kind of understanding, if other companies did have shared services, then what I would say to you is that we would need, I would say, hey Brad, we need to dive deeper into their approach to shared services for of the.

Yeah. A stronger method.

Yeah. To identify, well, what is what, what do they do differently with shared services? Is there a framework, is there a methodology, is there a process, is there an algorithm behind their user interface that they use to connect people that makes it different? So that, and this is really, really valuable for those of you that get this, that when you do that, when you, when you're like, so right now your client, shared services, only one in the marketplace, boom. That is their mechanism. Now what's going to happen, odds are somebody else is going to come along and in the future maybe knock them off, come out with shared services. Right. At that point, like I said, we go deeper into the unique mechanism to find how are they doing it differently. And then we position it against the common shared services. Meaning then we're able to say like, look, this isn't simply shared services that's available anywhere. What this is, is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the reason why you want this and not typical shared services is because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that you then position it against the common form of what it is that they are, are doing. It's kind of like saying, right? This isn't just like you remember the days when people were like spinning articles or whatever it was for like SEO, right. Well, if you came out with an article spinner at the time, you would, you wouldn't want to say, here's another article spinner, right? And here's why we're better. Because now you're competing in this red ocean, right? It's right. This creates articles for you. But this isn't just an article spinner. If you want that, that's everywhere. This is built on xyz, human technology, brain function, blah, blah, blah. We would find it, we would identify it. And the key is that for everybody to understand is that it's there, it's there. You might think that your product or service doesn't have anything unique. You might think every product or service can have a unique mechanism. You just have to understand how to examine, how to look for it, how to identify it. It's there.

Nice. I Like that. Yeah. And that's the, that's one of the reasons I was also really excited to talk to you about this because I was like, yeah, I'm dealing with the unique mechanism here. And it's the, it's the how to get people to really understand how unique that is and drilling down on. But I like, I like what you said, which is, and we've been doing this to a, to a degree, but you phrase it really well, which is really show them how they can alleviate all the pain points of trying to do it by themselves with shared services as the, that's the mechanism that makes it work. And it's really not even about the company. It's sell shared services. Sell shared services. I mean, there's, there's a degree. He could probably go in and say, listen, I'm going to show you how to get together with some of your other real estate investors and create your own. Like you're not going to do it, right?

Yeah, no, I, it's, it's almost. And imagine that, right, that you get to imagine this, right? So now you have a marketing campaign that, that talks about like, like, look, if you're a real estate investor and you are dealing with, blah, blah, blah, all these problems, right? There's these headaches, these frustrations, blah, blah, blah. I'm going to share with you the one simple solution that is going to clear all that away for you and any real estate investor, regardless of your experience, your knowledge, blah, blah, blah, your capital can do this, right? And what I'm talking about is what's called shared services. Let me walk you through how it works, how you can get into it and everything that'll do for you. And then you're educating them on shared services, right? So now you come across as an expert, an authority on alleviating these pain points for real estate investors. You become an authority on shared services. You become a valuable resource, right? Because you've just, you're teaching them something new. You lead them to the point where at the end of that marketing message they say, wow, man, Brad is so freaking right? This sounds amazing. Thank you so much, Brad, for opening my eyes to the value of shared services. Now I just need to figure out where do I go and get it? At which point you say, and that's why we've spent X amount of dollars and X amount of time putting together shared services to give you everything you need. So you didn't talk about the program, you didn't talk about the site, you didn't talk about the user interface until you created the demand for your unique mechanism for the shared services. It's so beautiful when you get it. It's freaking beautiful.

It really is. Now have you seen this is tactical. We've mentioned webinars. We mentioned kind of like evergreen launch sequences and none launch sequences.

But.

Have you seen anything whether it's with this or any other things that are working better or worse especially for let's just say cold traffic. I mean I've had a lot of success running cold traffic to webinars in the past and sometimes those bomb but and sometimes to the multi video sequence series. Is there anything that you've just personally found is working better, worse these days? Is there any kind of.

Yeah, I think the answer is really no. I think that you know, for me personally I like the multi part video sequence. I think it's really more. But that's not. I'm not necessarily recommending that for everybody. I'm often asked this question, like what's the best funnel model? And there is no best funnel model. There are certainly there are models that are appropriate or more appropriate for different price points, right? Like you're not going to do a webinar to sell a tripwire. You know, you're not going to do a multi part video sequence to sell a tripwire. So you know the typically the lower, typically the lower the price point typically the shorter the campaign, right? The shorter the campaign. So you can use things like a VSL or a long form sales that are even a short form sales that are the higher the price point typically the longer the campaign. And so it warrants things that allow that give you that, that give you that time. But I really think Brad, that the way folks, in addition to what I just shared, I really think that your folks should choose the marketing model more based on their area of strength. Some people are exceptional at webinars. I'm not. It's not, it's right. I'm not for whatever reason it's just something that I'm not. Is not a huge area of strength. Obviously for a guy like Russell Brunson, he's phenomenal at that. Right. And so he, you know. But if you look around the space, if you look at let's say a Ryan Dice, you know, Ryan is self professed, not great at webinars. You know, you look at Jeff Walker, he's obviously clearly videos. You look at Frank Kern, he's great on camera. He also does webinars. Well, I think that it really comes down to your area of strength. Are You a better writer. Andre Chaperone. Ben Settle. These guys create email sequences that convert because they're really strong in that, in that department. They don't do a whole lot of webinars, a whole lot of on camera video. So it really comes down to, like, your area of strength and operate and stick within your area of strength. Because if your area of strength is more video, if you like doing voice, if you like doing scripts rather than off the cuff, then you're going to get better results by scripting your stuff. If you like, you make a great.

Sorry to interrupt you because I've actually had to answer this for some of my friends, clients, etc. Is just because somebody says a webinar is the way to do it. Like, if you suck on webinars and if you suck on camera, like, video marketing is not for everybody. It's for people who are actually pretty decent on video. It's all subjective because you and I, we may be totally different. Like, I may be terrible on video and you're great. We read the exact same script the exact same way. People don't like looking at my face, right? So that could be. That's why I have a podcast and I don't do a lot of videos.

That's so, that's so, so valuable, man, for everybody. Like, because, you know, I think it really comes, it really starts or stems from this, that it's not about the delivery channel. Right. It's not about, like, this message will only work when it's delivered on webinar. There's nothing magical about the webinar. Yeah, there are nuances to having something scheduled live on Wednesday night at 8pm Eastern Time. Of course, there are little nuances, but those little nuances are not the thing that make or break it. Right? Like, in other words, it's kind of like, you know, it's like, look, a crappy novel isn't going to work if you turn it into a comic book. Like, it's, it's right. It's a crappy story. It's a crappy story. And so it. Right. Like, just right. Somebody else might deliver a message during a webinar and it works really well. That doesn't mean that that's the only channel of communication that that's going to work on when you have a good. It's why Brad, companies like Agora and I'm just blessed and fortunate to, to work with them, with, consult with them. And really so much of what I've learned came directly from Mark Ford, the man behind Agora. It's why they're able to roll out a campaign as a vsl. They have it as a long form sales letter. They put it in the mail as a book, a log. Like they're able to, they're able to take the same message. Works because it works because at the, at the foundation of the message, it leads you to the conclusion that I need this thing before they offer you this thing. It's unbelievable.

Yeah, that's fantastic. Ogori also, it always cracks me up. I was having a conversation with this about them the other day and when it was somebody else about them and how much effort they put into like this amazing copy and this long video sales letter. This long letter. And then they're selling like a $50 a year subscription.

Yeah.

It's like, whoa. But they got their stuff so dialed.

In that they know and there's such another, a tremendous lesson there. So I was recently asked to give a presentation at one of their private, like, conferences in Miami. And I was like a little freaked out about this when they asked me because, you know, Gore is the freaking 800 pound gorilla. They're like almost, almost, if not at a billion dollars a year in annual revenues publishing, you know, newsletters and, and they asked me to present of all things. Right. And by the way, the funniest thing was afterwards I said, who created this agenda? Because it was Bill Bonner spoke first, the founder of Agora, then Brian Kurtz, the former executive vice president of Boardroom, and then Todd Brown. I'm like, who set this agenda? Like, I don't feel like I don't.

Want to go after them.

Yeah. Like, let me go after some schlub in the accounting department or something. And the funniest thing was they asked me to talk about like the top, the top 15 things that Agora isn't doing that they should be doing. And the funniest thing, Brad, was that. And I've shared this, like, publicly. So this is not something that. It was the easiest presentation I've ever had to put together. Because if you looked at the plugins, the bells and whistles, all the whiz bang things, the push button notifications, all this other stuff that, that Internet marketers tend to get enamored with, that I was enamored with for years, they don't do any of it. If you really look at some of their pages, some of their pages look antiquated. Like they're, they're built with the old page builder. Like they're, they're ugly. Right. But, but yet how have they been able to become the 800 pound gorilla? And it's because the big marketing idea, which is the one of the other core components of the E5 camp method, that was the thing that Mark Ford shared with me. When I asked Mark, how was Agora able to go grow so big? Like what, what really was it I thought he was going to say to me? It was the size of their email list, their budget, you know, their traffic budget. I even thought he was going to say their copy. What he said to me. That's not what he said to me. What he said to me was he said, Todd, we realized early on that we are really in the idea business. We're in the business of developing compelling, startling, arresting, new, different, unique ideas. Ideas that grab our prospects attention and that is at the foundation of every market piece that we put out. We don't write a single word of copy until we nail the idea. What's the idea that's going to grab prospects and say wow, what is that? I need to hear more about that. Then they craft a marketing message that creates demand. Right. And if you look at it, if you look at a Gore, if you look at something like the end of America, the most successful financial promotion ever in the history of the publishing industry which came out of. Right. Came out of Stansberry Research brought them something like 750,000 new buyers. New buyers. It was like something like an hour and 17 minute VSL lesson in and of itself right there. An hour and 17 minute VSL. I do not think they started the offer until after an hour. They did not mention the product, the offer, the newsletter until an hour, an hour in. Why? It goes to show you.

It goes to show you too because you get this question all the time. Well, how long should my VSL be? How long should my sales page be in the age old. You know wisdom is as long as it, as long as it's. Oh, there's a short version of this. What is it like? As long as it needs to be.

Yeah, it's, it's really.

As long as it's engaging, it doesn't matter.

Yeah, like people, you know, like it's like when people say oh, people don't watch an hour long vsl. People watch two hour movies all the time. But you know, if something sucks, excuse me. But if something sucks and it's not, they're going to turn off in two minutes. And so it's, you know, it's more about. It starts with the quality of the idea and that's What? Agora is just unbelievable at developing big ideas behind their marketing campaigns. They, they do, they brainstorm big ideas every single week. They're phenomenal. They're the best on the planet at it. And then they know how to take that big idea and create a marketing message that. Excuse me, that educates some of their sales letters, which are pages and pages and pages long. Some of their sales letters are. I find them to be more valuable than some books on the topic that.

Takes so much time and research and effort into it. And as a result, you know, they make hundreds of millions of dollars.

Crazy.

By the way, just to kind of like. Because I told Chris Daigle who works over at Agora that I've heard that Agora is on a big hiring spree for all types of marketers. And I don't know if Chris gave me the directions on like if you are in any way, shape or form a marketer and you're potentially looking for a job with the biggest of the big, the 800 pound gorilla, send me an email. This is just a little intermission. Send me an email to ask bradbaconwrappedbusiness.com and I'll connect you. Chris, here I am helping you out, brother, like I said I would.

So that being said, yeah, absolutely. Let me tell you something. They love. They, they love and are constantly on the hunt for two things. One, savvy marketers that get the core strategy. Like we talked about earlier on core strategies and good or. And copywriters. Now when I say copywriters, let me preface this. They're. They're not looking for great writers. They're looking for people that have a desire to learn and a deep curiosity. That's it. That's what they look for. They honestly do not look for good writers because they have a tremendous training process that they. As long as you are willing to learn and you've got a tremendous curiosity, my gosh, you could be writing copy rather quickly for the. The biggest direct response giant on the planet.

Right? So once more, if you guys are the least bit interested in that, just send me an email to ask BradBaconrap business mention Agora and I'll hook you up with my buddy who's helping them to recruit. Like, I don't know if you said like 50 or 100 people, it's ridiculous. But back to. Back to you and your stuff and a big idea. Now that's. You said that's part of the E5 camp methodology and I'm. Because I haven't purchased it Yet I want to ask if that's. Is there a big part in there? I'm developing a big idea. There has to be. Because I know that's also one of your strengths.

Yeah, that's, it's, you know, it's. There are really five components to, to engineering an E5 campaign. Right. Certainly identifying the unique mechanism is the start of, of one of the pieces. But one of the other big pieces is the big marketing idea. And the big marketing idea, you know when, after Mark shared. So after Mark shared that with me many moons ago now, I literally, no joke, I literally went on like a six year journey studying and trying to master the big marketing idea and I went through something like 92 million dollar plus marketing campaigns and I found like a repeatable formula. Like I found something that was in every single one of them as it relates to the big idea at the higher level. I'll say this, that you know, the big idea speaks to both the head and the heart of your prospect. It's both emotionally compelling and intellectually interesting. Really. We already talked about the emotionally compelling part. It's emotionally compelling. An idea is emotionally compelling when it contains a big promise. Right. What I call the primary promise, a big promise of transformation, of result, of outcome. When it promises your prospect ideally exactly what they want. Right. Which we identify during the examination stage of the E5 camp method. But what really makes it emotionally compelling is when that primary promise is fulfilled and delivered by the unique mechanism. When they see that I can experience the result that I want with something new and different that I've never tried before, that I've never been offered before, now they get excited, now they have hope, right? But like imagine this Brad. Imagine if we imagine if let's say for your client we didn't have the unique mechanism of shared services and all we said was here's how you could become a more successful real estate investor or here's how you can have less frustration in your real estate investing business. They've heard it before, they've seen it before. It causes that mental opt out where it's like I've heard it, I've seen it. Right. Like I'm out of here. What gives them hope that maybe now is ah, like I've never, I've never known about shared services. I didn't, I've never tried it, I've never been. Maybe that's what has been missing and everything else that I tried. So it becomes emotionally compelling to them, right. And right. So promise mechanism and then you've got the other Main piece, which is that it's intellectually integrated, meaning that there's a part of the idea that gives them this feeling of discovery, that gives them this aha moment, that makes them feel like, I want to learn more. Right. Intellectually, they, they just find it interesting, right. Even if the promise and unique mechanism weren't, weren't there, they would be interested in learning more about the thing, the idea. And that is how you're able to get attention in a crowded marketplace place without trying to scream a louder promise, without using hyped up copy, without exaggerated claims in your headline, without trying to, you know, like wordsmith your headline. You know, it's like what a lot of marketers do, unfortunately. And I know because I used to do this, they take that, they start off with a, with a, with a crappy idea, like a run of the mill idea, like how to grow big tomatoes, right. And they think that the answer is to try to wordsmith the headline, right. Instead of how to grow big tomatoes, it's how to grow huge tomatoes, how to grow massive tomatoes, how to grow a huge garden with massive, gorgeous red tomatoes. But what they don't realize is that they're wordsmithing the same garbage idea. The idea has not changed. They're just trying to fix it with words.

Lipstick on a pig.

Right? Exactly, man. Exactly. Well said, well said. You know, at the, yeah. At the end, at the end of the day, it really starts with, right, using the formula for coming up with a big idea. When you have a big interesting idea, even weak copy will still grab attention, Right? So it's what allows you, if you're not a great like copywriter or if you don't like to write or. Right. If you're just getting started, it's it, it equips you with something that can still grab your prospect's attention, will still stand out, will still get clicked. Because it's about the idea, not the hyped up copy, not the formulaic headline. That's like, that's, you know, that's not it. And that's why I'm.

Now you've got me thinking about what's a big idea for how to grow tomatoes.

Well, like it'd be this, like, let's say, let's say hypothetically, like, and this is. Right, just totally off the cuff. Just. Yeah. And stuff out. Well, let's say we add a method of, of enriching the soil with different nutrients, right? So like, I don't know, maybe we would look into those nutrients and where else are those Nutrients used. Are those nutrients used in the, you know, in some cancer treatments? Well, I don't know. Maybe. Then there's the ability to say something like, you know, like, there's a new discovery that a, an over the counter, you know, cancer treatment is able to grow you the most gorgeous tomatoes you've ever seen. Right. Like, now you've got like, how does that work? How is that? Like, what is. Right, like, in other words, you've got something different other than this. How to grow big tomatoes. Yeah, because they've heard it. That's the thing, Brad. Right? Like with marketing, you know, like, and I hate to use this, this word because it's. It's almost cliche today, but it's the only word that I can think of. You have to have differentiation. You have to have something different to say. You have to bring a different idea to your market because the same idea. Why should they pay attention to you if you're saying the same thing that five other people in your marketplace are saying? It goes back to what we talked about earlier, that they think if my page is nicer, if I use a tripwire funnel, if I have a yellow bar at the top, they'll listen to me even though I'm saying the same thing. They won't. I wish they would. I wish it was that simple. But it's not. They won't. They'll ignore you. I know because I've been ignored more times than most marketers have attempted to create campaign. Ha. Yeah, man.

So, dude, this is a. This has been fantastic and I've had. I've kept you on here for now over an hour, but I mean, I could do this all day long. I want to respect your time and everybody else listening and watching on here. You know, I mentioned I'm going to put this here back on the bumper reel. So if people want, if people are really enjoying this as I am, one of the things, you know, you can go to bradlovese5.com and you can check out the videos that Todd has released. It goes into this in a lot more detail. But, you know, what I think is so important on this is that you've created a program which really is a framework soup to nuts of how to become a better marketer. Somebody who can really move the needle and get the wheels cranking in a business. And it's not a here today, gone tomorrow concept. It's something that your concepts are used at the highest levels. Like you said in Agora and others.

And you.

You didn't. Although the E5 can't method is. It's unique to you. You didn't just come up with this out of the blue. I know for a fact that you. Like you said, I studied $90 million marketing campaigns. You've been in the field, you've tested this, you've tried, you failed, you've been ignored and you've been adored. Right, I've been ignored, I've been adored.

I like that.

Yeah, but. And it's, it's. You've instead of go and just created something new, you've discovered the framework and you put it into a place where other people can not have to study 90 different million dollar sales campaign.

Yeah, I think, Brad, you go through all the crap. Yeah, no, man, I think, dude, like, look, man, I say this, you know, whether I, whether it's the right thing for me to say or not. Right, man, Like, I'm just a dude from New Jersey, like, who just so happened to fall in love with this type of marketing, direct response marketing. I never liked selling, like, I just wasn't good at it. I was uncomfortable with it. I like the idea of marketing, like being able to lead somebody to want the product in a way that delivers value. So, like, that at the end they love me rather than feel icky about me. And I've just really stood on the shoulders of giants. You know, I've learned, I've realized, like, all right, I learned the big marketing idea from Mark Ford, right? He. They developed it, right. And so I just studied it and then I came to learn and understand Gene Schwartz's unique mechanism. And then I said, well, hey, you know what, things have changed a little bit in terms of we now have the ability to multiple contacts with the prospect. So what would happen if instead of just having a mechanism, we educated on the mechanism and. Right. And so I've just pulled pieces from people that are far smarter, far better than me, and I put it together and it's just worked like gangbusters. And so now I'm just passing it on, man.

That's fantastic. So what is a nut that you're trying to crack right now? Now granted, at this very moment, you are the nut you're trying to crack is to get this message in front of as many people that can use it as possible. But is there anything, whether it's a, whether it's a person you're trying to meet, a resource, you're trying to gather, an experience you're looking to have, anything that we can give back to you in terms of helping to make your Life or business easier?

That's a great question. Ordinarily I would probably say no, but I do have something thing and I would love to learn more from. From you and, or from some of your, you know, because you're connected to everybody about better systemization for such a. For a company that's, you know, growing rapidly and constantly kind of, you know, you know, rolling out, you know, better systems.

Systems and processes.

Yeah. Like, what's a bet? What's a, what's a good way for a fast moving, fast evolving, fast growing company to develop and adhere to systems that would be worth its weight in gold for us.

For me, I believe I can 100% hook you up with that.

So I. No doubt. I'm sure you can.

With a conversation like there's multiple angles here and actually when we go offline we can talk about this even a little bit more detail and I can determine who the best introduction is. But literally having this conversation like last week with somebody else who. This is his specialty as well. But dude, this has been awesome. I can't wait to go through the E5 camp masterclass itself, dive in because I'm always trying to hone my skills and I know that you've done all the hard work, of course, putting it together and I just get to sit back and, and learn as opposed to.

Yeah, we'll get you access. We'll get you access today, man. And you, you go through it and, and love it. And man, like, dude, totally my pleasure. Like, I can't believe how the time is. Has flown by. I, I love chatting with you, man, because, like, I just love how passionate you are. Right. I think that we're cut from the same cloth in terms of being passionate about what we do, man. And so it's always a pleasure. I love being on here with you.

You, man, fantastic. Well, I look forward to seeing your both episodes in the top five of bacon wrapped business here. I'm sure it will be. And I wish you all the luck with this class. I know it's going to be really well received and hopefully I'm doing my part. For everybody who's watching this on Facebook Live, thanks for staying with us and checking this out. I hope that you see that I like to think that this isn't a normal interview show because I go really, like, I get. I like to say, by the way, that I have the most selfish show on itunes because I'm only like, I'm only really asking questions to things that I really, really want to know. Like I'm bringing up actual case studies. And I don't. I'm not afraid to pick the brains. And I. And I think that a lot of people get value out of that as well. And I try to do that on every episode. For, for those of you who may not have ever listened to the show before, I encourage you. I've been doing this now for exactly three years. You can go back and check out Todd's old episode. You can check out some of the other ones, and there's a. There's a bunch of education in here that you can piggyback off of as well as my, you know, as well as just hear my. My baritone voice. That being said, subscribe to the show. Send me an email to ask bradakenwrap.com. once more, if you want to hook up and explore some of the job opportunities that Agora is having, there's absolutely zero better education than on the job experience. And check out Bradlovese5.com right now. You can get at least four videos from Todd where he's just going in this in even more depth. And explore the masterclass. I highly recommend it. If you want to have any marketing chops at all, whether you're doing this for yourself or. Or if you're a consultant or an agency or somebody who wants to do a better job by your clients like I do, that's gonna be terrific. But, man, I will let you get back to your day. I know you're three hours ahead of me, so. But you're also in launch mode, so you're probably sleeping one hour a day.

Yeah. On a good day. But man, I so appreciate it, dude. I like I said, dude, just such an honor to be on here and I'm so grateful, dude, for, for your friendship. And yeah, man, I would love to do it again. And like, yeah, I just really enjoy chatting with you, man.

I appreciate it, brother. All right, everybody. Subscribe if you're on itunes and share the video. If you thought it was really awesome and all your friends need to see it. This is Brad Costanzo and Todd Brown with bacon wrapped business. Over and out. See you all next time.

Bye. See ya.

And I think we're ending. Let's just see. Don't let's not get ahead of ourselves. Let's see. We are.