Matt Gallant Reveals Hyper Growth Strategies That Are Working Now

How do you make business problems disappear? Wrap them in bacon. For business owners, marketing execs, and anyone trying to grow your business, pump your profits and make more while doing less. Welcome to Bacon Wrapped Business with Brad Costanzo. Sizzling hot business advice guaranteed to make you fat profits. Every week, our chefs will serve you proven recipes for ramping up your revenue. Now here's your host, Brad Costanzo. Okay. Welcome to Bacon Wrap Business. This is Brad Costanza. Welcome back. I'm actually co broadcasting this on Facebook Live as well. If you're not following me on Facebook, go check me out there. Subscribe to the feed and subscribe to the show if you're not already a subscriber. If you're listening on the podcast app, just click the subscribe button. Or if you you can also subscribe to my newsletter@baconwrappedbusiness.com today I'm interviewing Matt Gallant, who's down in Panama. And as a quick intro.

We'Ll get.

Into the whole story. I'm not going to do a huge formal intro, but I'll just give my very personal intro with you, which was in 2009. April 17, to be exact. 2009. Our mutual friend Mark Hardy, who is an expert in pr, invited me to something called this hyper growth formula workshop that his friend Matt Gallant was hosting in Dallas, Texas. And I didn't know many people. I'd only been really in the whole world of online marketing for about a year, so I had had some success, but I was still pretty green. And I was at this workshop, maybe 15 or 20 of us. I know Keith Baxter was there and you and Claude and a handful of other people. I don't really remember a lot of the other folks, but I do remember that as I'm sitting here looking at my seven year old notebook and I've got about 60 pages of handwritten notes from this, from this workshop that he did. And you can hear him giggling in the background. But I've still kept it. I've thrown away a lot of crap over the years, but as I was going through this, I was just blown away by how relevant a lot of the strategies and tactics that he talked about back then still are. I don't think there's anything in here that is out of date. The only thing that's not in here is, you know, stuff about Facebook advertising. And I just want to say, Matt, welcome to Bacon Wrapped Business, brother.

Awesome, man. It's great to be here. Looking forward to talking about marketing, copywriting, optimization, doing deals, wherever the conversation goes.

Everybody what are we not going to talk about? That might be the. That might be the.

We're not. We're not going to talk about romance.

Romance, Right. Cool. I wish my Facebook peeps could all hear me. This is all one sided conversation right now, but we're not going to talk about romance because that is what we do privately. Right.

Late at night. So.

Yeah. So we've been friends for quite a.

While and I don't really want to.

Go into this huge long backstory like, hey, man, how did you get started? Tell me about your journey because, I mean, I know a lot of that stuff. Let's get into some fun stuff. Let's talk about.

Yeah.

So how's Panama? First of all, I know that's where you live. You've lived down there for how long now?

Been here 12 years. It's actually hot as balls today. It's hot. I mean, it's hot. It's hot even to our standards. So. Yeah, like brutal. Yeah, it's humidity like 90%.

Oh, man, you got to come up to San Diego. This is, this is when you want to get out of Panama. During the summer, I imagine. I mean, Panama may be amazing during the summer, but I have a feeling that it's better, you know, during the rest of the year.

It's actually best. January, February, that's, that's our summer. January, February, March. And right now it's our winter. So the humidity goes up and we just get more rain. But definitely it's not San Diego weather, which in my opinion could be the most perfect weather in the world.

Yeah, I haven't found anything that's actually any better. But that being said, so what has been going on? Yeah, screw the, screw the backstory. You're a super accomplished marketer. But first of all, tell people about your, like your current businesses, like kind of the, the experience in business, like products that you've sold. Excuse me, Things you've done that make you worthy of being wrapped in bacon.

Sure, sure. So my claim to fames are I've performed well. I've tested well over 10,000 different ideas scientifically, you know, I'm talking split testing. So I'm a fanatical split tester. If you would log into my split testers right now, you would see about two or 300 different things being tested. Just because I have how many? Probably two or three hundred different things. Because I have a lot of different websites. And on every website I'm always testing everything. The opt in, the sales letter, the order page, the upsells, et Cetera, et cetera. And I have a publishing company in the music space that's been around for over a decade. Actually, one of my claims to fame is I have two businesses that have been around for more than a decade that are doing a healthy seven figures each. And that's a real accomplishment because most companies, including most of the friends that you and I have, don't have companies that have been around for 10 years. Oh, hell no.

That's like a lifetime in Internet marketing terms.

Yeah.

By the way, I just stopped my Facebook thing, so if you heard me talking in the back, I was like, I just killed it because there's a lot of dead air.

Cool.

Anyway, sorry about that.

So, yeah, so that's something I'm really proud of again, because I've had to evolve and grow and change things along the way, and especially in the last three, four years. And this could be a great topic of conversation to dive into, is that marketing has changed significantly. It's really done a 180, maybe a 480, maybe a 720. I mean, it's just changed a lot. So I've had to retool things and upgrade things. So that's been great. Yeah. My companies do close to eight figures last year. We're trying to crack that this year.

Which of your businesses is the biggest cash cow? Like, what's doing the best?

Last year was the supplement business, the guitar business. Well, I have a publishing company in the music space, so that did very well as well. But last year, in terms of revenue, that was the supplemental business.

What kind of supplements are you selling? I know a little bit about it, but I'm not super familiar with it.

We sell things we just consider fundamental health products. Enzymes, probiotics, vitamins, minerals. We sold an organic protein. Organic.

Are you partners with Wade on that?

That's what I thought.

Okay, cool.

Yeah, him and I have been partners for, like, 11 years or 12 years.

Wow, that's awesome.

Yeah.

Wade and I were hanging out at Anthony Trister's wedding down in.

Yeah.

In Cancun a few months ago, so. That's awesome. So, yeah, that's one of the things that I really. It's kind of hard to encapsulate you. Like, when I think of you, I think of. Yeah. Like, crazy mad testing. You know, like, really, really, like, Hyper Growth. I mean, the Hyper Growth formula is exactly what you talked about. Like, how I'm blown away by how you keep everything straight. Like, just organizationally, like, how you manage all those tests, how you manage all of the Things that you do and that you've got multiple businesses. I know it's hard enough for me to just manage the few things that I've got and keep my head on straight. Where do you spend most of your time in what part of your business?

It's pretty well evenly split, so. And then on top of that, I started blogging and on top of that, big blogs too.

Really good, really good writing and blogs. That's MattGallant TV. Is that it?

Yeah, yeah, that's it. And I also do what you do, where I'll do consulting deals where I get a piece of the pie. So it's split all over the place. I'll write in the morning and then I'll have two days a week where it's meetings. So right now we're using Traction, which you just interviewed Gina Wakeman's partner from.

Yeah, for Rocket Fuel.

Yeah, for Rocket Fuel. So we do Geno System, which is Traction, which has made all the difference in the world. I mean, I cannot sing the praises loud enough of how impactful that's been in terms of organization, in terms of how the team's excited about it. I could literally talk about it for easily a few hours. But that's helped me get more effective. The other thing that I do, which again, you just interviewed the guy about this, is I have integrators for each business. And here's my opinion. My opinion is one solid visionary can keep probably 5 to 10 integrators busy.

Oh, absolutely.

Right.

And real quick, let me. For the audience is understanding because this may come out after. This will come out after Mark Winter's interview. But let me just refresh, people. So I just interviewed the co author of the book Rocket Fuel, which is about the relationship between the visionary, usually the founder of a business, and the integrator, who you could think of it as the operations person, sometimes the CEO, but it's the person who gets shit done and it's the executor and the whole thing. Because usually a good visionary is not the best integrator and vice versa. And when you put the two together, it's like rocket fuel. And the book really does a great job of explaining the. Not just the importance of having one, but how to have one, how to manage that relationship. So if you haven't listened to that episode on the show, go find it. It's probably one of the most previous ones to this, but I just wanted to give that as you're talking about integrators, so that people kind of go, oh, okay, that's what he's talking about.

And that's something I'd figured out about five, six years ago. I was just hitting the wall and I'm like, man, you know, I was just doing too much. I was trying to do too much integrator work. And I'm like, you know what? I just need to find guys that are really solid at executing because first of all, I don't like it. I suck. I'm not good at micromanaging. I'm going to do what I'm best at, which is strategy marketing optimization. That's where I bring home the bacon. Right. So where have you gone about find.

Where have you gone about finding your integrators? Because it's not the easiest thing to just find. I mean, there's a lot of like searching and sometimes it's luck and then it's really grooming and developing them. But what's worked for you so far?

It's really been organic and it's just been finding good people and yeah, it's just been more organic. However, and it's a question that I asked you to ask Mr. Rocket Fuel, which I haven't listened to it yet. So I'm curious what the answer is. But in the last year or two, instead of partnering up with them, I'm just going to hire people. And I feel that integrators are hirable. I've got two guys that are just absolute studs and they can handle my output. So where'd you find them? Hires, you know, using. Well, one guy found a cult of copy and another guy had found way back when at Eben Pagan's Guru Mastermind.

Nice.

And we were in one of the groups and he failed with his Internet marketing business. He filled his business, but he was just such a great guy and he's just a natural integrator. So that's how I picked up that guy.

And you know, we're kind of going down a fun rabbit trail here because it's not really about, you know, the whole rocket fuel thing. But this is great because I love the fact that you said that's integral to your business. So I want to continue down, which is when some, when you're going to hire a person with the integrator personality or I'm sorry, skill set. Do you currently have a system, a process? Do you, do you have them take a personality profile? Do you just kind of wing it? Like, what's your kind of hiring process for that?

Okay, I've got a deep hiring process, but let's get into it because I think people can get some good value from it.

And this kind of stuff is, I think, as valuable, if not more than, you know, fun little optimization tricks. Because this is what real entrepreneurs do.

No, I agree. And this is what I've been spending more and more of my time on the last few years. And that was a big aha a couple of years ago. I'm like, do I really need to go to another marketing event to learn one little tactic that I don't know? And the answer is no. What I need to focus on is become a better entrepreneur, a better businessman, a better team builder, a better process builder. That's where my next level is. So I've been putting a lot of energy into that. But to go back to your question, first of all, let's say we want to hire a webmaster. So upwork is a good place to look for people. So let's just use upwork as an example. But tap into every pool you've got, including your personal pool on your Facebook page. If I'm really looking for somebody, I'll hit every avenue I've got. If I'm looking for a copywriter, I'll hit cult of copy. I've hired four guys out of there, which is called Ontario's group.

Yeah, I'm in there.

Yeah. So I found four copywriters out of there. So that's been great. But let's go through the process. So first step is obviously, you know, filter out the obvious bad ones, which means, you know, and upwork is great for this because you can use a scoring system. I want guys with a lot of work, you know, a lot of hours built, etc. Etc. So that's a great way to just get rid of the, obviously the lower level stuff. Then if I'm looking to hire one position, I'll start with about 50 to 100 candidates. I'll send out round one, which is going to be a real good job description, an exciting job description. Use your copywriting skills and make it sound enticing. From there, I might get 50 replies, 60 replies. So I got 40 gone. Out of the 60 replies, probably 20 are going to give me replies that are bad. And I'm using every single piece of communication that they give me as indicators of am I going to even invest time or this or not.

You're always being judged.

Yeah, I'm always filtering. Always filtering. So. And if somebody can't communicate well, they're just, they're out. I don't care what position it is it's so critical for us as a business, just one of our core values. So I'll probably get rid of 20. I'm down to 40. Out of the 40, probably 30 will show up to the interview. Yeah, it's crazy. And out of the 30, like there's probably five that don't have a mic, don't have a camera. I mean I just fire people for all those things, but not fire, but get rid of them on the process. So I'm down to 25 out of the 25, you know, probably 8 or 10 do a good interview. So I'll give all of those guys, let's say eight guys, doofus tests. And this is critical, you know, because let's say customer support. I'll give them three problems, like three basically angry customer emails and say, give me your response. So I'll give them three angry customers and I see what their reply and I judge them based on that. Same thing with like when I hire a copywriter, I'll say, okay, here's a piece of content. Now write an email about that content. So I'll give them like a three minute video clip where somebody's talking about something. I'll say, yeah, write an email about that clip. So right there, going through the doofus test, I mean only 25% or 20% pass that, no matter what position it is, I can eliminate a massive chunk of it. So I'm down to maybe two guys or three guys, which I always like to hire, let's say three guys for one position. And then I'm going to, basically based on their performance, I'm going to keep one or keep two and one guy might quit. So that's the step by step process. But I think the doofus test is a big one that people need to do. Then once somebody I feel is a good member of the team, there's an incredible system that I think blows away Colby Disc, Briggs and Myers. I think it's better than all of these and something we've been using more and more and it's called Caliper. CaliperCorp.com Caliper C A L I Caliper with a P Corp K L I P E R. Correct.

Ooh, cool. So that's, I've kind of heard of that. I don't know much about it and I'm a big proponent and self confessed junkie for kind of like these really good personality profiling.

It's awesome. I mean it breaks down way more attributes. And not only that, once they have your data, you only need to do the test once, but they can take your basic attributes and then overlay that on top of various positions. For an example, senior leader, salesman, middle management. And because different positions require different qualities and different character assets. Right. So they can overlay your attributes on top of those positions. They can also take, let's say you have a team of six people that have done the tests. They can overlay everybody's strengths and tell you as a team, as a company, you're really missing this. So it's, it's a little. It's a lot more powerful than anything else I've done. And I've done pretty much all of them.

That's very cool. So this. Yeah. So Caliper is much more for them. It's for the people you're hiring. It's not necessarily for you. Like do you take your own test or no?

Yeah, we do it all. I mean, I do my test, they do their tests. Obviously it helps me understand myself better and it helps me understand them better. And we pretty much share.

Is there just one test like a pre employment assessment or something or.

Yeah, it's just one test and everybody does that one test. And it breaks you down into I think maybe 15 different attributes or 20 attributes. And then again then also you tell them the role you're playing and it's going to take that data and tell you based on your attributes, you're really strong here. You're strong at strategy or you're not strong at strategy, you're strong at leading change, things like that.

Awesome. How much, what does that cost roughly per person?

It's around 350 per person, I believe. And then I think if you prepay, it gets cheaper.

Yeah. So you only do this when people that you're actually. Are these the ones when you, like you said, you've narrowed it down, you've got your three top people and then you do this because you're not just giving this to people, you're just kind of considering. It's like once they're kind of on your team and starting correct.

Yeah, once. Once they've. Let's say I'm down to two guys and I've had. I've been working with those two guys for let's say four weeks. Either I'm going to keep those two guys full time or I'm going to keep the one guy at that point. Then we get them to do Caliber Cool.

I love that. All right, so.

And I want to say one thing. If your business is, you know, in the seven Figures. And you're really growing and you want to build a team, hire HR person. Because what I just described, that entire process for one hire probably takes somebody 30 hours to do it properly. So we. So the only P's that I'm involved at this point will be the final interviews, which we might do two or three interviews. So the final interview or two, I'll be involved there and that's it, you know. So the rest of it is outsourced because it's such a big, big time suck. Yeah.

You know, one of my close friends who's got a pretty successful business, and that's one of the things that he had said, one of the first hires he makes, obviously, like especially if you're a solo entrepreneur hire, you know, you're a really good personal assistant to where it's not just like a va, just a little va, but somebody who's really, really good, understands your business and put them in charge early on. Of course, hr, like that's one of their primary things, besides the other tasks is to really understand the roles you're looking for and to kind of handle all that and then migrate that out to finding like people who have real experience in this HR area. It's a topic that I've been toying with myself. I've never personally built a big team for myself. I've always been smaller, nimble, working with contractors, outsourcers, a handful of people that like employees in the past, but never a big one. And I've realized that it's kind of kept me from growing. And although I don't have the desire to grow and manage a huge, you know, a huge team, it's one of those areas that in order to get to the next level that I want to be at, like, like you're doing what you said is concentrating on talent acquisition, development, team building, management. And it's a totally different mindset skill set than, hey, marketing strategies.

Yeah, it really is. But I think when you start getting close to eight figures, this is the game. In the early part of building a business, it's like marketing is the key, but then it starts shifting into team and culture and I think even later on, which I've never hit, but I believe that the next level, the next big thing, once you start getting maybe around 50 million beyond, then it becomes about culture, because the culture is what the team uses to perform and to guide itself. So that's my understanding of business at the current time. But I'll tell you, Once I hit 100 million, I'll come back and we'll talk about it.

Nice. I love that. So let's talk about some of the things that are working now, some of the, you know, because I mean, you're always doing some cool stuff. So let's share some sizzling hot business advice that's guaranteed to make these people fat profits.

So let's talk about the changes, let's talk about what used to work and what doesn't work. And that's a perfect segue into what is hot right now. So first of all, when I started, I got trained by John Carlton, Gary Halbert. I flew to Miami, spent some time in Halbert's apartment, got spray tanned on his balcony by some Asian assistant. And yeah, so, you know, I was trained by those guys and the style of copy that I learned and they taught was really what I would describe as aggressive, hype driven, big, bold promises. And that's what worked, you know, And I think at one point Gary Albert was probably the best guy in the world at that style. Yeah. But in the last five, six, seven years, and especially in the last three, four, everything has changed. And everything has changed starting with the Facebook slaps, which have been happening. Yeah. Before that, the Google slaps. And starting in 2008, they nuked, you know, 800,000 advertisers that one year and it's kept going. And Facebook now is arguably even more strict than Google. So and what's happening is they don't want claims and a lot of that stuff is happening from pressure from the ftc, which gave Google a billion dollar fine, probably fined Facebook as well. Google has, sorry, FTC has gone after the credit card companies to put pressure. So now the merchant accounts are also enforcing this and policing this. So it's not just Google, it's not just Facebook, it's the merchant accounts. It's, I mean, it's just everywhere. So the bottom line is we cannot make the big crazy claims and the strong, killer, edgy, power driven copy that we used to. It just doesn't fly. First of all, you're not, you're going to get banned, you're going to get shut down. And that's the bottom line. So because of that, the copy that is working now is, first of all, content has really become the king. I think people used to say content is king, but content is not only king for SEO and things like that, it's also king for conversions. Because it's clean, it's effective in terms of building influence. And then later on, if you can get them to opt in, then you can use maybe some stronger copy on your products. So what we tend to lead with now is content first and then persuasion later. So before it was like 100% persuasion in terms of copy. Now it's more like 50, 60, 70% persuasion, sorry, influence, and then finish with the persuasion. Even with affiliates. I'll give you an exit, something that has tripled our results with affiliates and that we start the affiliate promos with an interview and we've done the test. It literally triples the sales compared to just going to a sales letter out of the gate. So what we do is we fly in whoever the face of the business is, they have a sit down, you know, the classic interview style, and they talk. And that's the first thing that the affiliate sends out. And after that, then we'll send them to the sales letters. So what we're seeing again is just building influence is now as critical, if not more critical than the persuasion side.

Yeah. And now people have the ability, because of social media, that was really in its infancy in 2009 when we were talking about this, the ability to search out things about you, about the claims. I mean, you can make big claims these days, but man, it's so much harder because people see through the crap much quicker. They start to talk about you much more and people started to hear it all. It's such a skeptical market now.

No, your products, every market, this is a good segue, is every market now is level four, level five, and that's using a Eugene Schwartz framework. And in fact, this fall I'm going to create a course called Level five Marketing. It's all going to be level five strategies because all the stuff that we've. Again, it's part of what I just described. But even on the product side, we really have to start pushing things into an extraordinary level. You know, when I started, Dan Kennedy used to say good enough is good enough, you know, and I embraced that and that was a powerful mindset for launching things and staying out of perfectionism. But you know, like you said, people talk and the standard keeps getting raised. And if you're going to release a crappy info product or a crappy piece of software, you're going to get decimated.

Oh yeah, yeah. Because people will talk and they love to talk, people love to gossip. And now, I mean, it really used to be people would only talk like if there was comments on your YouTube video. Right. But now it's all over social media. So the, you know, the need to balance avoiding perfectionism and just get it out and Improve it. But don't just release a turd and try to, you know, try to just oversell it and not deliver because you'll, you won't be in business for very long or you'll just be constantly putting out new products because, you know, because the market just won't tolerate that anymore. I know Perry Belcher. I've heard him say a few times, and I quote him a lot on this, which is it's never been harder to sell somebody the first time to get the first dollar out of somebody's pocket, but it's never been easier to continue to sell them because, you know, all the various touch points, but also the fact that there's so little trust in the market place and that when they do find, when customers do find somebody they really trust, they latch on because they want to. Because it's so noisy out there.

Yeah, I agree 100%.

So, okay, so you're one of the things that's working, like you said, whether it's affiliate or, you know, whenever you're doing paid media. And I, and I know you do. I mean, you sell physical products, you sell information products. You sell both. Right. So does it really change on. Are you doing. First of all, let me ask this, and I may jump around a little bit. It just as my squirrel brain kind of catches up to what I want to ask you. But are you. Are you doing more on. Are you spending more on Google or more on Facebook or more somewhere else? Like native ads and all this other fun stuff?

It used to be primarily AdWords. That's really. I've always been an AdWords dude, but in the last few years, it's almost 50 50. Facebook is so powerful. I think as a marketer, we've never had anything remotely close to the level of power that Facebook has. It's sick.

I agree. So on Facebook, then you're going, are you doing an ad to a piece of content? Are you doing an ad straight to a sale? Does it depend on what you're doing? Like if it's an E commerce product or an info.

Well, first of all, when you're starting out, if you're starting with a new account, you want to start building up that positive relevancy score. So it's very smart, very intelligent to start sending people to articles and videos that are not selling for the first two or three shots. Because if people start hitting that screw you button on your ads and you don't have that relevancy score built, that's how a lot of people have lost their Account. It's not just the claims and stuff. People themselves can get you thrown out if they really feel that you're just selling crap. And you know how people are. Even if you're not selling crap, some people think you're selling crap.

Yeah.

So you really want to start with content. Give, give, give. And for maybe the first three campaigns or the three pieces that you put out at first. Great idea to start just driving people to a blog post or to a blog post with a video. And of course you can remarket which is smart. And if people don't know this, One of the great tricks to increasing your ROI from remarketing is delay the dropping of the pixel by 15, 30, 45 seconds. We drop it after about 15 and that's really increased our ROI significantly. Some people drop it after 45. It'll increase your ROI even more from your remarketing because you're going to get rid of the people that bounce and said, I don't like this.

Yeah, you're not just dropping it. Sloppy. Because not everybody is good if they get off right away. They just maybe clicked on your ad for one reason or other. Maybe they were just snooping. I snoop on people's ads all the time. I was just right clicking on ads to see what's up. By the way, have you. Do you know Wilco decry? No. Okay, so have you ever heard of upviral.com or Connectio or.

No. Okay, so I'm gonna.

Stuff. Really cool stuff. He just came out with a demo for JV's. He's releasing the software in a month, but it's called Retarget Connect, I think. And I'll send you what it does. But it's got some really, really cool tactics where it's outside of Facebook. There's a dashboard that's really, really good and he allows you to do everything, like to drop those pixels in a way that makes it as effective as that, but way easier to manage. And you're not even dealing inside Facebook. I don't know. I'll send you some information and if anybody else wants to, you know, more information right now, you can't buy it, but you can go to like connect IO.IO or upviral.com. those are two of Wilkos software. He also did an episode with me back in January. So just as a kind of a shout out to Wilco but fun little upcoming tool that I think you'll like.

Sounds great. I love it. So, yeah.

So going, dropping, dropping the pixel, delaying the pixel, sending the content really kind of seasoning. What did you call it? Or the getting the positive relevancy score on your. This is really on your Facebook page and your ad account. Right? Like your ads.

Yeah, Every ad gets a relevancy score, which contributes to your entire account's relevancy score. And if that gets too low, you're done, you're cooked. Facebook basically push, pushes the big black X button and you're out of there.

Yeah.

So the reason you want to, again, drive people to content, if you look at a lot of smart marketers, that's what they do. They'll start by just. I mean, there's nothing being sold, obviously, on that landing page, you know, at the end of the article. Yeah, sure. Have a link that goes to your bribe or to your sales letter, whatever, that's fine. But still, the main piece of content should rock.

Yep.

So you do that three times, and then after that we tend to go to opt in pages. So I can talk about a couple of things here. Here's some tactical stuff that we found works. Obviously, test, test, test. Because, you know, what worked for me might not work for you. It's all about execution. So here's some stuff that on one funnel, literally, I increased the. The conversion, the visitor value 6x from what it was before.

Whoa, how.

Yeah, so when I came in, it was just opt in. Right. To the sales letter. So somebody would opt in and then you would just drive them to the sales.

What were you selling?

It was a fitness product. Okay.

Like an info product or physical info.

Yeah. So the first big thing we did was we added a piece of text. This piece of text really increased conversion significantly. And I'm paraphrasing here, but the text basically said the blah, blah, blah, bribe is on its way to your inbox check in a few minutes. While you're waiting, why don't you read about, you know, this amazing product that I have that, that can help you do X, Y and Z. So this leads me to. I'm going to go on a little tangent. Another foundational product principle of marketing that I feel is as foundational as persuasion and influence called harmonization.

Harmonization. Domination, baby. I remember that. That was page one of the hypergrowth formula.

Yeah. So I've really perfected that and we can go into that tangent. But because it's so foundational, it's critical. And here's the harmonization here. If people opt in. Right. And you're expecting the Costanzo Bacon bribe, but. But you send it to a sales letter and there's no Mention of that bacon bribe, they're gonna be like, what's. This is a lie.

Oh, my God, I hate that. Yeah. When you opt in and it's like, boom, hey, buy my stuff. It's like, wait a minute. Like, let me in.

Yeah, exactly. Where. Where's. It's dissonance, right? The opposite of harmonization is dissonance. It's noise. It's a disconnect. It's like, this guy's a liar.

Yeah.

So. So that helped. Then we. We took that to another level by adding a video that basically said the same thing. That beat that. That beat just having the text on top.

Okay.

So basically it's a video. It's a welcome video. Hey, thank you for opting in. The bacon bribe is on its way to your inbox. Please let me know if you love it. I think you'll love it. Also, please white list it. Email. We did that. That include proof conversions a little bit. We show them based on. If they're on Gmail. We show a little video of how to do that. That's in the video. So those are little tweaks that you can do. And then that's on top of an article. So below the video is an article. Usually, like the three things that, you know, the three keys to X, Y, and Z, or the three things to avoid. Those are good formats. So then you're going to have the article, and at the end of the article, then that goes to the sales letter. So adding all this stuff before the sales letter 6X, the amount of money we were making, which was probably the most shocking test of that year, which was a couple years ago. But we found similar things on other things. At the very least, we found that adding that video before they go to the sales letter and again thanking them, acknowledging the bribe, telling them it's on its way, telling them to whitelist, improves conversions. So that's a great thing that everybody can contest.

That's great. Well, yeah. And it doesn't go for the sale. You know, it's almost like dating. You know, if you. If you see an attractive woman and you ask her out on a date, and then the first date, like, you. The minute you pick her up, you're like, hey, you ready to have sex? It's kind of like what you pull up to her door like, hey, she's like, I thought we were going on a date. I thought we were going to get to know each other. I thought we were going to wine and dine. So then you take her on a date, take her on another date, you get to know each other before you, you know, ask for the fun stuff. But it's very similar. And I don't. I think a lot of people end up rushing it because they're in a hurry to get to the sale, in a hurry to monetize. And like, you're right, the market is very skeptical these days, and they see through this crap. Especially, I mean, if you're brand spanking new. Especially you've never purchased an information product before. Maybe it works. But taking these extra steps goes a long, long way. I love the strategy there. Are there any strategies out there that you've done recently that it would almost pain you to reveal here on the air?

Those are. Great question. It's a great framework. Is there one that you would almost.

Be like, son of a bitch, I can't believe that Brad pulled this out of me.

All right, I'll give you one. And it does pay me to reveal this.

This is why I get paid the big bucks, guys, for you.

So here's one thing. I mean, it is worked on just about every. I think is batting like 95% as a split test. Anything that bats that high, which means we've tested in like 20 sites, and it's worth about, what, 95%. So in other words, it's going to win about 95% of time, obviously, based on the quality of your execution. So what you do is go on a green screen and you're gonna. It's gonna be a white screen, whatever. Green screen, white screen. If it's a green screen, chroma key it white. Tell your video editor that you'll know what it means, and you're gonna film on the order page. Instead of having, you know, yes, I want Brad's ultimate bacon secrets, you know, and you got all that copy written out. Instead of doing that, you're gonna have a video. You're gonna have a video. And what we found is that if we. And I'm going to. Again, this is painful to reveal. Here we go. So what we've done, we've been able to increase our customer value, lead value, visitor value, whatever you want to call it, 40, 50%, which has been incredibly massive. So what we do is we've created the craziest guarantee in the industry. And that's not B.S. like, it's the craziest guarantee in the industry. And I'll go through the script in a second. And basically the video again is me or quad or whoever the talent is breaking down the guarantee on the order page. So People hit it and it's a very short video. It's about 60 seconds to 90 seconds. And it's really, and it looks blended into the page because again, we're gonna go white on white. And we found that that makes a big difference for some reason. If it's any other color, if it's too big, it seems to drop conversion. So it's not very big. Maybe 400 by 300 or even 300 by 250, whatever the size is. And the script goes something like this. And I'm going to focus on the guarantee part of the script. So I'm going to offer you what is by far the craziest guarantee in the industry. If you buy Brad's Ultimate Bacon Secrets, you're going to get 15 DVDs jam packed with the ultimate bacon. Tactics, strategies and tricks. And if there's any part of these DVDs that you don't like, just ship the DVD that you didn't like. Keep the ones you love and you'll still get a full refund. But wait, it gets even crazier. I'm going to pay for the shipping both ways and I'm going to give you 365 days to make up your mind. That's right, you get a full 365 days to get 100% refund if even if you didn't like one DVD and you keep the rest. So basically that's the gist of the guarantee.

Nice. So you're paying shipping, right both ways. So free shipping there. And if you want to send it back, I'll pay for your shipping and a year long guarantee. Now that's awesome.

And literally if you got like a product with 10 components and they only break it apart back, you give them 100%.

Right. And what you find obviously is that so few people ever ship something back.

Correct, Correct. I mean our refund rate is a very respectable four and a half percent.

That's awesome.

Yeah. And there's another thing too. Like this was an evolution to get to this point. I mean we're probably talking over a hundred tests to get to that. But even in the early parts, even if you don't have a crazy guarantee, just taking your order page guarantee and doing a text overlay, video, you know, just basically you got a video and you're, you're talking through the copy that's on your order page, that was about a 20, 15, 20% bump compared to just having text. And especially, and especially if they've seen you on video. Like if you if you got a VSL that's going to order page, it's, it's again, that's, that's a good example of harmonization. The, the same tone, the same song is being continued because they're used to seeing and hearing you on video and then they go and see you and hear you on video again. So that's a good exam. Another good little example of harmonization.

That's really cool. I love that. I know, that's awesome. And it's, you know, it pains you to reveal it, but I guarantee so many people won't even take that extra step to do it. It's true. It's like the people who take these extra steps are the ones who get the hyper growth. And the harmonization is so important. And I know that probably has. You know, I've heard a lot of people refer to it as congruency. Like between your ad and your landing page and your order form and everything that it should, should be, have a congruent feel to it. You don't want to have completely different styling everywhere you go, because then people just get confused and.

Yeah, well, well, let's go deeper into it. So congruency is, is one of the keys to harmonization, relevancy, and authenticity. So those are three of the foundational pieces. What you just described is one great example. But let's keep going because relevancy, which means that the product is relevant to the group of people that you're targeting or segmenting, is another big piece that most people miss. I think right now, if you're not segmenting, you're screwed. We all have to segment, and then based on that segmentation, then we have to give people the relevant content, the relevant emails, the relevant offers, the relevant products, and those are all examples of harmonization. You're playing the right song for the right crowd. If I'm at a heavy metal show and the best electronic DJ shows up, he's gonna get mauled, you know, and vice versa, right? Metallica shows up at Burning man, they're going to get laughed right out of the desert. So you have to be playing the right song for the right crowd, and that's foundational to harmonization. Now what you talked about is another big piece, which is you have to have the right ad copy that's harmonized, that's congruent to the landing page. A lot of people miss that. I mean, dude, if we went out there right now and analyzed a thousand ads, I'm willing to bet that 800 or 900 of them aren't even doing that. The ad is saying something that's not even on the landing page. You know, and sometimes it's. It's kind of there and it's not, you know, it's not 100%. So matching that up is most often the pay raise. Like literally saying what's the headline is on your landing page in your ad will quite often boost response.

Well, you're saying, yeah, so say the headline in the ad and then have the same headline on the landing page. Right?

Correct. Yep. So that's a very simple tactic that you can increase the harmonization, but then it continues. Right. And what we just talked about a few minutes ago is a perfect example. They want that bacon bribe. They enter their name in their email, they go on the next page, and there's no bacon bribe. Right. It's like, dude, screw you. Right. And you know, a few years ago, maybe two, three years ago, there was a lot of fitness offers. Like the one unusual secret. Remember that? I was crushing it. And you would watch the video and there was no unusual secret. I know, Talk about bait and switch. Huge. Yeah. So you want to avoid all that. I mean, listen, unusual secrets are awesome. Make sure they're unusual and make sure it's a secret, you know, and make sure that most people are genuinely surprised. So after they hit that thank you page, where again, you want to have that thank you video acknowledge the bribe, then you're going to drive them to a sales letter, which should also be harmonized with the train of thought that you're going on. So for an example, if I'm selling an AdWords product, I better have an AdWords bribe. Right. You know, having a bribe about Facebook pay per click. It probably is not going to work to sell that AdWords product. So you got to harmonize the product. The sales letter, the thank you page of the opt in page. The thank you page. Sorry, the opt in page and the ad. All five of those things need to be playing the same tune. And if we, again, if we analyze the thousand funnels, most of them don't do that.

Right, right. That's. I've noticed that. And I've also noticed that it's not as easy to do sometimes. It's, you know, you kind of want to slap some stuff together and just kind of get it out there, but really taking the time to go back through and, you know, not just looking at the copy and looking at that, but look, you know, going for the feel of the. Of the customer's journey. Right. So how does it feel to them? Does it feel off kilter? Does it feel disjointed? And you know, I've mentioned I was talking with, doing a consulting call earlier and one of the things we were talking about is just some basic conversion strategies on her website, just basically. But I was like, you know, I'm not talking about colors and this, that and the other. I said, look, if somebody comes to your website, they want to know they're asking themselves three questions. And I got this, I think from Mech Labs, so I can't take total credit for it, but it's where am I? What can I do here? Why should I do it? And just understanding that, understanding that journey that's going on in the customer's head and if you're doing it congruently, where all of the styling and all of the messaging is, like you said, in harmony, it just makes things so much easier.

For sure.

So what about, what are some other, like, what are some cool tools or resources that you're using these days? I mean, I have a feeling that, I mean, you, I know you've got, Is it, are you still, you guys still have the software that, what was it called?

Yeah, Gold. Gold Lanterns. So, by the way, it's, it's, it's becoming a real powerhouse. Nice visually and other things. So, yeah. So let's talk about metrics. I think it's an area that most marketers and entrepreneurs are incredibly weak. It's a good segue into lantern, but we need it.

Yeah, it's the most important thing. But it's hard, it's hard to get right and it's no fun to look at, especially if your metrics aren't where they want them to be.

Well, let's talk about simplifying it. And I'm going to simplify it into what I think is the most simple, powerful, all encompassing number. Because a lot of people look at, well, what's my average customer value and how many months do they stay on and all this stuff, which complicates the bottom line, the number that you should be obsessed with and tracking is visitor value. Because visitor value encompasses all of it. And it's really simple. If you made a million dollars in sales last year and you had 500,000 unique visitors come to your website, you made $2 per visitor. I mean, it's that simple. And now the next level is to track visitor value for every traffic source. So what is a Visitor Worth from YouTube? What's a visitor worth from Facebook? What's a visitor worth from Google? You know, on the organic side. So all of these traffic sources are gonna have radically different visitor values. Now, why is that important? Because. And I'm gonna give you some examples. So in one of my companies, and this is actually common, by the way, the traffic that we get from YouTube is on a visitor value worth more than double everything else. It's worth. Double Facebook, double AdWords, double. You name it, it's double that. Okay? So based on that, we're doubling down, tripling down on YouTube like, we're going crazy, you know, And. And because it's. It's the most profitable traffic source that we can do. So we're pumping out three videos a day for that channel. Plus we're going to. We're looking to hire more people. Like, you can make smart decisions if you have this information. Which.

Which channel is that? If you don't want to share, that's fine. But I was just curious.

Yeah, I'll tell you after we hang up. But the point is that it's incredibly valuable. Saw the same thing I did. Elliot Holster's marketing from strength camp for a couple years, and the visitor value from YouTube was the highest. Higher than anything else. So, yeah, YouTube traffic rocks. And you can make decisions. Now, if you want to play the pay per click game, whether it's Facebook or AdWords, you cannot play that game. I mean, don't even think about playing that game. Unless you can track to a very precise level the visitor value, you got no chance. You got no hope. And, you know, that's why we built the tool we built called Gold Lantern. And Gold Lantern tracks the visitor value over time. So not only do we know what the visitor value is, we know what it is at every time slice from 24 hours, 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, 6 months, 12 months, 24 months. And we see that grow. So it allows us, for an example, to have the mindset of, if I break even in 30 days, we're happy, because we know that after 90 days, we're doubling our money. And most advertisers won't do that. They'll launch the campaign. They're not making money right away. They're like, shut that shit down. We're like, hey, man, we. Let's. That's fine. If we're close to breaking Even again after 30 days, we know we're gonna make two, three times your money over time.

Right? So Gold Lane. Like, if people want to check out Gold Lantern, where do they go?

Yeah, just. Just go to MattGallant TV and send me a note, and we'll talk.

Okay, cool. So is that not something that's just out there, like for everybody to just kind of stumble across and sign up?

Yes, it's still in beta. We've been adding, by the way. It's not just a tracker, it's a full on pay per click manager. We have Facebook now Adwords. And yeah, it's really become a powerhouse. So, yeah, I'll have to give you another demo one of these days. But yeah, bottom line is it's in beta. We do have some paying customers and we're not fully advertising it yet because, you know, I realized last year that a minimum viable product's not enough. We need a minimum lovable product, you know, and the difference is you can have a really bland cookie and that's a minimum viable product, but what we need is a cookie with the cookie monster face pasted on top of it, you know?

Right, exactly. Okay, cool. What about any other tools out there that you've been kind of like or resources, Whether they're, whether they're services providers. This is just kind of the fun stuff that people can check out.

Sure. Probably the marketing thing I've been the most excited about. And it's not a tool per se, it's a methodology. And that's Ryan Levesque's ask survey mythology.

Yeah.

Been working well for you? Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah, it's, it's powerful, man. And we're just starting to implement it. It already is paying off, so I got to give kudos to him. We were segmenting, I mean, you were at the Hypergrowth event and we're talking about segmentation back then, but his survey methodology, including the open ended questions and the calls, it's just giving us insights that we didn't have. We were guessing and I can't say for sure yet, but I think it's going to increase our visitor value by 30, 40, 50%.

Oh, that's beautiful. I love that. Yeah. Ryan was on the show a long time ago and I've been running, I was running segmented, segmented survey funnels like for years. I think I started my first one back in 2010 or something. But Ryan's got a really cool way that he added a lot of, a lot of different insight into that and like a kind of almost more of a scientific methodology to it. And you guys can, like, if you're listening to the show, you don't know who Ryan is. I can put a link in the show notes or you can just look for Ryan Levesque and survey funnel in, you know, one of the past episodes that I've done, is there anything you're really. Are there any. Whether it's trends, whether it's anything you're really excited about right now that maybe a lot of people aren't talking about, but you, you kind of see kind of where the. Hey, you're Canadian. You see where the puck is going.

Yeah. Some things to pay attention, trends, cryptocurrencies, blockchains. Most people have heard of it, most people are ignoring it. And I'm not telling people, drop some coin and invest in that, but pay attention because it's going to change how we operate.

Yeah, I agree with you. That's like the whole bitcoin and derivatives of that. So are you taking, Are you doing like taking bitcoin payment or doing any of that yet?

Sorry.

No worries. So I was asking, are you taking any bitcoin payment or any kind of cryptocurrency payment on any of your sites at the moment? I know some sites do that.

No, we've been wanting to do that. I mean, I have invested. I trade it. If you're a trader, it's great for that, but. Yeah, yeah, so that's cool. I mean, obviously AI is going to change the world. Yeah. I mean, those are trends that everybody should pay attention to. But I am excited about cryptocurrencies. I think it's going to, it's going to be the next major shift. I think it could be as significant as the Internet in a lot of ways.

Yeah, I agree with you on that completely. Should do a. Should do a total episode on that. What about some nuts you're trying to crack in your business? What is, what's, you know, what is something that maybe myself, my listeners can help you out with, whether it's finding, you know, whether it's a skill set. People, partners, as I said. What's a nut you're trying to crack? Yeah.

We'Re cracking again, the ask survey nut. It's taken up a lot of resources because we're implementing it in various businesses. So that's a big one. I'm always looking for integrators. So if anybody's listening to this and they feel they're a world class integrator. Yeah. And again, I have, I literally have more deal flow that I can, I can do. So I'm always looking for solid people that contact.

Contact Brad Costanzo first if you're an integrator, and then I'll give him all my results because we're all one of them. It's funny, that's one of the things that Mark Winters on the Rocket Fuel show was talking about is how you know the. And you're probably familiar, but integrators are the rare bird. They're the diamond, the gems that nobody, they're not enough of them. It's like 5% of the population. There's like four to one visionaries to every integrator. And their entire vision for their company is to create a bigger pool of well trained and self aware integrators for entrepreneurs and eventually creating like a match, a mashup, I mean like a matching service to where people can really.

When.

They understand the methodology. Can you imagine coming across somebody who not only knows they're an integrator, but may have been trained or certified by Mark and Gino on kind of how to come in and operate as an integrator using their frameworks, using all of this other stuff. And it's like, no, dude, I got this. I get it. You don't have to train them in it. That's kind of their big goal and I think that's really, really awesome.

So that's, that would be a dream come true in a lot of ways.

He says he's having, he's doing these integrator mastery forums like a seminar. And I don't know what it costs. It may cost like five grand or something like this. I don't even know if they're going on yet and. But it sounds really interesting. But it's not for visionaries, right? It's for integrators. I was telling him, I was like, you know what you should do? Sell like maybe it's $5,000, whatever. Sell this to your integrators and get the them in a room. But for $10,000, sell like let all the visionaries come in like on the outside. Let them circle like sharks waiting for all these integrators to leave, like just gobble them all up. Because it'd be a huge demand for people who just know how to implement.

That's awesome. Yeah, yeah.

So, okay, so survey funnels looking for integrators, people who can execute, people who understand, you know, some of what you're doing and want to kind of come into your world and grow with you. Anything else that you know I can help you with? Anybody else?

No, nothing burning.

How can people give you money?

How many people give you money? Can they pay you to speak?

I mean you got the Matt Gallant Galant TV and you've got your story, you got some cool resources out of three extra productivity links Live a limitless life. Are you doing this more as a personal outlet or do you do any consulting? Do you do anything like that?

Yeah, I do consulting. I'm available for either today or even pay for performance deals, which I love doing. Those are my favorite deals to do. So those are options. And then by the way, on my site I have a book called Triple youe productivity the 20 hour work week, which has been getting incredible praise and love from a lot of heavy cats. So if you haven't read it.

Yeah, I've read it. It's great.

Go to Matt GalantTV and check it out. So, yeah, so those are ways that people can work with me. And MacGawTV though, is just, it's just really a soul driven thing, a heart driven thing. I'm loving it. I'm loving just putting cool stuff out there. Wherever it goes, it goes. I am building leads and I am going to release Level 5 marketing in the fall. So that will be. I'll monetize those leads at that point. But it's not like it's a, it's a business per se.

That's great. The, you know, it's kind of funny. So you're familiar with Stiletto Coffee that I've talked about from.

You said.

Yeah, cool. So that was born because of the whole concept of Level five. So for people who don't really know, I think I've done a show on this or touched on it, but not totally, but I'll just diverge here a second. For new listeners of the show. Myself and my wife have a company called stiletto coffee.com and it's really the only coffee in the world that's really, you know, it's. I say it's for women, marketed for women, branded with a very female presence. And a portion of the proceeds gives back to women programs. And you know, there's, you know, pays it forward, gives back whatever you want to say. But the entire branding, as people know, is very female centric. And it's because I was aware of the 5 levels of market sophistication from Eugene Schwartz about how that fifth level, it's, you know, it's no longer making a claim about your product or no longer just talking about the mechanism which makes your product work. But it's prospect or customer driven marketing. It's creating an emotional bond, creating, you know, kind of changing the conversation where it's not about our product anymore. It's much more about the consumer of the product. And I know there's that the fifth level, I would love to hear some more of your insights on that.

Is.

Really all about that. But that's one of the reasons where I thought, okay, this is something we may be able to do because we identified a potential fifth level to sell a commodity with and nobody else is doing it. Everybody else is just focusing on, focusing on their coffee beans and selling that. So we thought we can zig when everybody else is zagging. And that's kind of what's allowed us to gather some traction in the marketplace. But it's a, I mean, I'm very, very. That's a dear to my heart concept.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, I think Dave Asprey Bulletproof did that too to a certain degree in terms of, you know, tailored it to high performance executives, entrepreneurs. Chimera Coffee, they've got nootropics in there. So, you know, bottom line is that's what people need to do these days. And like you said, yeah, it's about creating that connection. Whether it's emotional, primal, spiritual, there's different types of connections. Whereas creating one of those connections with the target audience that you're reaching out for, that's what level five becomes about. So that's the foundation of the course I'm putting out. I'm going to reveal seven different methodologies, strategies to do that. Some, some which most people aren't even aware of. And it's, it's, it's what is what you need to do now because like we talked about earlier, just going straight for the kill with quote unquote, killer copy is not really that viable now.

Yeah, exactly. Well, man, this has been awesome. I encourage every single person out there to go check out what you're doing over at MattGallant TV. And like you said, if you're doing some heavy media buys and spending, go over there and contact him. You have your contact information on there?

I actually don't see a contact page. People can just hit reply on any of the posts. Oh, cool. And I get, I get a message for all. Yeah, I'm still managing all those nice.

Ask about Gold Lantern. And I really look forward to seeing some of the other stuff that you've got coming out and looking forward to hooking up with you next time you're stateside. And I mean, if you ever want to get out of that heat and humidity in Panama, come hang out in San Diego. Got a spare bedroom for you.

Awesome. And I do have a bacon related suggestion for everybody. I don't know where you can get this, but there's a restaurant in Panama that serves this, and the name of the cut is called Lechon.

Oh, I've heard of. Okay, go ahead.

Lechon. Yeah, it's basically they. They crisp up the skin and then you got this beautiful layer of fat and then the meat. I mean, it's one of the best pieces of pork you'll ever have. It's ridiculous.

I gotta see if I can find somebody who's serving that out here. That's so cool. And I look forward to visiting you down in Panama someday. It's been on my bucket list of places to go. So.

Yeah, yeah, once it cools down a little bit, Larry Doxata came. They had a good time.

Yeah, absolutely. I remember that. Cool, man. Well, thanks for being on the show, as always. This has been fun. It's been kind of cool. And I love the fact that I've kept my little notebook handy and I still go back to it every once in a while, looking for fun ideas and things to implement for all my listeners. I hope you've enjoyed this one. Once more, go to MattGallant TV. And one of the best things you can do for me as a listener is to share the show on Facebook, for instance, or Twitter and let people know that you. You actually like it. Like, share the episode with Matt and say, I learned a lot here. I don't get paid directly from the folks who listen to this stuff. I could very easily put all of these episodes behind a paywall and make people pay $20 a month for this information. I mean, I guarantee that some of the stuff that Matt shared today is worth way more than $20. I mean, it could be worth thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars in the right hands. So do Matt and I both a favor and just give us a nice little share. I've mentioned this in the past to where on some other shows I've been asking for book recommendations for people. Like what some of their favorite business or other. It could be inspirational motivational books. But send those to me. Send me an email, ask bradakenratbusiness. Just drop me a line. Tell me what you're reading or what you'd recommend. I read. And if you are a business owner, entrepreneur, professional, and you're looking to kind of unstick where you're stuck, and maybe you want a second opinion on your marketing strategies that you're doing right now. Maybe you think you've got it all going well, but maybe there's something else that you'd like another perspective on. I'm happy to give you a second opinion and you can also email me at askbradakenrap Business and tell me that you're looking for that. If you are looking for some proven ways to just increase your leads, especially if you're selling consulting, this is what I do and I'm happy to help share my system with you on what's worked to develop leads and create a consulting program that doesn't own you, but that you can control. Reach out to me. You know how to do it. And if you're still listening, go over and leave a review on itunes@baconrapbusiness.com iTunes until next time, Matt. Appreciate your time and look forward to hooking up with you again sometime soon.

Thank you so much for having me. Hope everybody enjoyed it. Bless. Have a great day, guys.

Rock and roll.