Pushing Your Limits With IMPOSSIBLE Goals With Joel Runyon

All right, welcome to Bacon Wrap Business. This is Brad Costanzo, and this is a very special episizzle. If you are listening on itunes and just the earphones, I am actually on video right now, and I try to post this video. I'm streaming live to my Facebook account, but there'll be a link in the show notes that you can just click on and I'll take you to the video so you can see this as well. But I'm sitting here live at Beach House 1 on Mission beach in San Diego, and I'm here with my friend Joel Runyon. Joel is an amazing. I want to call him more than just an entrepreneur, athlete, person who's done some just really incredible things. And we're going to dive into all of these not even incredible, impossible things and what you've been doing, but Impossible hq, That's your website, right?

Yep.

Cool. So I'm going to go into the brief story about what I know about you, but. But what I don't know about you is probably way, way, way bigger than what I do. So I met Joel. Oh, I think we met online maybe about a year and a half ago or something like that, when the Jesse Itzler connection was made. Right. So for those of you who don't know, myself and Jesse Itzler created a group called We Do Hard Stuff, all about doing fun fitness challenges for charity. And Joel, we realize, is a crazy mofo and was doing some really impossible things, such as running seven ultra marathons on seven continents, raising money for. To build schools. What was it for?

Pennsylvania? It was seven ultramarathons on seven continents to build seven schools with Pencils of Promise. And we had built six of them. And I'd known Jesse on and off here online or whatever, and then joined the group. I think I even did some burpees for you guys on one of them in. In Antarctica and then.

Burpees in Antarctica?

Yeah, there's a video out there somewhere. So. So I did that, and then we built six of them. We basically raised money for six of them. And then I think we made the connection because you were managing the group or something like that. And then I basically reached out to Jesse because we had raised enough for six schools and like six and a half, and we needed a little bit of boost to get over there. And I saw Jesse was doing these things to raise money every month and donate to a new charity. So I was like, hey, Jesse, what if this month you took the donations for we do hard stuff and put it towards our seventh school? I'LL match it and we'll build a school together. And we did that. And then another group of guys from I think north County, San Diego, Kent.

Clothier, who's a good friend, former client of mine, threw in as well and matched.

So he had, he had a group of guys, there are three of them together that matched. And we ended up, I think raising a total of 36, $37,000 for. Which is more than you need for that school building. School number seven. And then, yeah, hitting our goal. My original goal was to build. Raise $175,000. And we ended up raising closer to 193.

That's killer. And that built seven schools, right?

Seven schools, yeah.

And where was the one, the we do hard stuff school.

Yeah. So that we just got photos of it. So literally like two or three weeks ago. It's in Guatemala.

Guatemala.

So that was awesome. And just posted photos maybe last week of the actual build that went up. So that was kind of cool. And then we met in Chicago as well.

Absolutely. So it's been a fun, it's been fun to watch a lot of the stuff that you're doing. And so this is one of those things. I want to go back and hear more about your actual story and what this impossible list is and what you're doing, why you're doing it. And I also want to, after this, I want to find out more about your business model because you're doing some crazy awesome things, fitness and lifestyle wise and raising money for charity. But I also want to hear how do you make money? What is your business model and what is that like? Because I find it very inspirational that you can do. You live a very unconventional life, a very inspiring life. People look at you like this guy, like, what do you do? How do you do this? And I think we live in a time where there's so much opportunity for people to do things like this and sometimes just takes the inspiration that somebody else is out there doing it to make them realize that it's not really impossible.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. So you want to start with my story?

Start with your story.

All right. So I graduated school in 2009, double major in business and Spanish. And that was a terrible time to graduate school. Nobody was hiring at all. And it was the middle of recession, no jobs. I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but there were also just no jobs available. I applied to like the first places I wanted to work, maybe the second places, third ones, nobody would hire me. I didn't really know anything about positioning Myself as an employee anyways. But like I just thought that you were supposed to do all the things you're supposed to do in, you know, college and then you get a job. That was the track. That didn't happen. So I'm living at home, my parents basement. I start applying to places like Target, Starbucks. They Starbucks won't call me back.

What are you talking about corporate?

No, I'm talking about like I want to serve coffee. And they're like, nah, you can't.

The job market was that hard.

Yeah, it was, it was, it was that bad.

So interestingly, just a side note, I started my first online digital business in 2008, the very beginning of 2008, right before the whole crash hit. And I missed it because I wasn't in the job market. I was just trying to figure it out. But I mean I was broke at the time, but I didn't have to go through that exact same experience you had. And I bet it was a nightmare.

It's just depressing because you're like, I know I'd always try to do the thing you're supposed to do. And so I got in good grades, I did multiple sports in college, traveled, learned a second language, majored in business. I was like, oh, I want to be prepared. And I come out and it's just like, oh, the model that everybody tells you is supposed to work doesn't work. And I didn't really know what to do. And so I'm sitting at home in my parents basement, I finally get a part time job at UPS slinging packages over Christmas time. The economy was so bad you're supposed to go out for six weeks. It's a temp, it's a temp job. You're supposed to go out for six weeks, help deliver all the Christmas packages. The economy was so bad, we went out for three of the six weeks because people weren't buying packages that sending through the mail. So I went out for three weeks. My first paycheck was $7 after union dues and taxes. And then they fired me or let me go after Christmas because it was seasonal work. And I'm back in my parents basement and wondering, is this everything? This is what I signed up for. I went to school, did all this stuff and this is what I got. And so I, I just felt bad for myself for like three months and watched Burn Notice on Netflix and like just didn't do anything with my life. And I saw these people doing interesting things. I had a friend visiting every country in the world, another friend Just quit his job and moved to Thailand. I saw people building careers, doing all these other things and I'm like, I'd love to quit my job and go to Thailand, but I can't even get a job. I'd love to travel to every country in the world. I have no money, I don't even have skills to like, you know, work at Starbucks they want.

You had that college degree.

Yeah, I had that piece of paper. Woohoo. I got so many degrees that cut in album and so I finished that, I was just like, everything seems impossible. So I felt bad, basically depressed for like three months. And then at some point I either ran out of like burn notice episodes to watch or I just got tired of feeling bad for myself. Burned out, like, there you go, I'm gonna use that my next talk. Then I got burned out and I, I was writing down these things I wanted to do, but they all seemed impossible. I was like kind of depressed. Like I didn't really have any money, I didn't have any way to do anything. And I had stuff on there like travel, travel the world, start a business, you know, get a job. And all those things seemed really tough. But there was one thing on the list that I'd written down and it was run a triathlon. And I didn't have any excuse for why I couldn't like go outside and run around the block and then get on a bike and ride around the block. And I didn't know anything about triathlons. I didn't know anyone who had done one.

You weren't, Were you a big endurance guy?

No, I, I did track and field in college because I wanted to hang out with my friends who are all on the track and field team. But I hated running, so I threw javelin because I was like, I want to be on the track and field team, but I don't want to do anything involved with running. And so I had no experience, I'd never run more than a 5K. And I just decided that I have to do something. Like I don't have any more episodes of burnouts to watch. I have to go do something. And so I started training for this thing. I was scared of like a real triathlon, so I did an indoor triathlon at the Lifetime Fitness. It was like a 10 minute swimming, a 30 minute bike ride and a 20 minute run.

That's my kind of triathlon.

Yeah, well I did it because I didn't want to drown. And so I was like, if I start drowning in the pool, I can just stand up and like, okay, that was where my ego and like my self capability was at. Like, I, I didn't, wasn't sure I could swim 800 meters or 10 minutes or something. And so I did that race and I realized at the end of the race I was like, oh, you just did this thing. Like you spent so much time telling yourself that this was impossible. What are the other things out there could you be doing if you just went out and trained for them? And so that was where I started, like actually writing things down on this list and then trying to go out and make them happen. And so, you know, I, I finally got like a job, like a super entry level job in like Internet marketing. Started like learning a bunch of stuff, got paid nothing basically, but got around the owner of the company and basically got a. Learn everything about the company that I could. Ended up getting more into triathlons, trying to just take the next step. So I did sprints, Olympics, half a half Ironman, got into, tricked myself basically into becoming a runner and started getting half marathons. Marathons. And then 2012, 2013, pencils of promise challenged me to run my first ultra marathon and try to build a school. And so we built our first school with Pencils of promise in 20. We raised money in 20, 2012 and then built the school in 2013. I did the first ultramarathon and then kind of got hooked and I was realized. You know, we went to Guatemala. Guatemala. We saw the schools. You saw how many people you impacted. And I was like, okay. And the altar was like the farthest, hardest thing I'd ever done. And so I was like, how long was that? It was just a 50k. So it wasn't even a huge.

Just.

Yeah, it wasn't even a huge ultra. I mean they do like 200 mile races sometimes, so. But to me it was a big deal. So I was like, that's really cool. That might have been the coolest thing that you've done. Not just doing something hard, but helping people. How can you do something like that, but bigger in a, in a, in a more impactful way. And so that's where kind of like the idea for 777 was born. Out of that.

Yeah. So seven, seven, seven seven ultramarathons on seven continents to build seven schools. And how, how long? So that's say seven weeks.

Yeah, exactly.

Seven days.

It was like, honestly it took like two and a half years. So I did the first race, I made this big announcement. We got a couple features in a couple different places. I Did the first race, 26 miles in. I'm in Patagonia, Chile. 26 miles into the 45 mile race or something like that. I come around a corner. There's like 25 mile per hour gusts and they're usually at your back. So like it's actually kind of helping you go faster. It's not bad. I go around this corner at the top of this hill and start coming downhill and the wind shifts. Basically goes from being at your back to your side. Blows me across the road. I catch like. I basically get lifted up off the ground while I'm running and like try to try to catch myself with my feet. My ankle ends up going like past my foot and I end up like pretty terribly spraining my peroneal tendon.

Oh, wow.

And I was like, okay. It's just, you know, it's just a rolled ankle. I've rolled ankles before. It's not a big deal. I do the next. I don't remember what it was. It was another like 14, 15 miles, something like that of the race. Kind of hobbling. Like I, I thought I was going to walk it off, but I kind of hobbled the last 14, 15 miles of the race. Finish it. And I'm like, okay, I'm just going to ice it. I'm going to keep doing the rest of the races. I'll be fine. Long story short, I tried to. I took maybe a week and a half off. Then I tried to like go out for a two or three mile run. And I'd been running 20 miles, 25 miles regularly. Go out for this two mile run. I make it three blocks.

Oh, wow.

Along like North PB over here. And I just like, I can't do anything. And so I go into rehab, realize basically the tendon that runs from your big toe, wraps around your foot, comes through your ankle and up to your knee. That's what I had messed up.

Didn't even know I had one of those.

Yeah, exactly. Messed that up to the point where the way they described it to me was it's like a Christmas ribbon when you, if you pull it real tight and it just frays. Like I basically done that to my tendon. So it took six months to rehab and then I got sued in my business, which is a whole different story. But that was like an 18th month ordeal. And. And so I basically had this eight. I basically had this 18 to 24 month pause after race one where I'm like, I'm going to go do something impossible. I'm going to do the biggest challenge of my life. It's going to be epic, and I'm going to get. Get it done in basically, like, six or eight months. And then I was like, oh, I did one race and fell on my face and, you know, hurt myself getting sued. All this crap is hitting me in the face, and this is way harder than I thought it was. And so, basically, once that lawsuit finished up, I had a. It was two years out from this first race that I run. I was like, either you have to do this now, or you're never gonna do it. And this was end of 2016, early 2017, right? And that's when I was like, all right, I don't not do stuff that I say I'm gonna do, so I'm gonna do this. And I did the first race. I did. I did. I did the second race in Chicago, and I did it without telling anyone because I didn't know. It'd been, like. It'd been like two years.

If you fell on your face again, you just let that one go.

Well, I just wanted to. Well, I needed. I needed to, like, rebuild some confidence. So I was like, okay, I just want to do it and, like, remind myself it was. It was the same one that I did the first time, like, for Pencils of Promise, back, like, four or five years previously. And so I was like, okay, I can do it. And then I realized that, and then I was like, okay, I can do this. And so then I started lining up races, and the way it ended up shaking out was I did the last five races in about three and a half months, and I think I did it. The fastest rate was, like, four races in seven weeks. And from the beginning of January 1st to, like, February, I want to say 17th, I did four races. And then I did the last one in South Africa in April 13 or something like that. So I wanted to hit it. I wanted to get them all done before I was. I turned 30, and my 30th birthday was April 23, so I have to get that done.

So it was okay. So where was the first one? Let's just name the places.

Yeah. Patagonia, Chile.

Yep.

Chicago, Illinois. So US Then Australia. Narrabeen, Australia. And Antarctica. Union glacier.

That was 100K.

Yeah.

60 miles.

62.

62 miles in Antarctica.

Then I did Thailand, so just outside of Bangkok. And then Rovaniemi, Finland, and then South Africa.

Did you say you just finished this year? 2018?

No, no, no. I did it last year.

17.

So I finished last year. Then we We. We had, like, almost hit our goal. We did that July challenge, June challenge with Jesse, and then it takes time for all these schools to get built. So, sure, I think three or four of the schools had been built earlier in the year. And then school number six, the one that we did with Jesse, was just built, just finished and, like, ribbon cut and everything, like, two or three weeks ago.

Oh, wow.

And do you go down.

Do you go down and do the builds with them?

So the. The goal of Pencils of Promise is to have people build. Build up, like, ownership in the place. And so there's a lot of organizations that will come down and build stuff, but I think it's like Habitat for Humanity, where they want sweat equity. And so people. I think they asked for 20% of, like, the total building cost to be donated by local people one way or another. And so a lot of times, you know, maybe that's a specific skill set they have. Maybe it's just like, day labor. Maybe that's something. But they. They build it from within the community, and they try to have local people build it because they found that, you know, if you have a bunch of white people just show up and come down and help out with stuff, they're like, okay, it's that guy's school. It's not our school. Right. And so I've. I've gone down. I was in Laos after the Bangkok race and got to, like, go around and visit some of the school. Like, we didn't get to see our school, but I got to see some of the schools they had built. And, like, I got to mix concrete and do some stuff like that. But, like, it wasn't like, Joel's coming here to build you a school. It's like, very much they were building a school for their community.

Yeah.

And. And, you know, we were helping provide some of the funds, but it was. It was. It's something they do, and I think they do a really good job. And it's one of the reasons I like Pencils of Promise. They do a good job of getting the community to buy in about the. About the. The school, not just being a school, but it's being their school.

Right. I love that. And, you know, my. My experience with the building stuff, you know, Frank Shamrock is. Yep. So Frank and I and Deb, who's over here off camera, a few months ago, back in the first part of June, we went down outside of Rosarito, Mexico, and we recruited a bunch of people, a bunch of Instagram. Instagram influencers. And literally, it was like me and Frank and like, 20 gorgeous women. And we all built. We built a home for a family. We raised the money. Like, we just all paid, and then we built a home and did it over the course of two days. And the family was there, they were helping us. It was one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. I've never done anything like that. And it's definitely an addictive thing. And I can see how this stuff is probably, I'm guessing, in your brain when you're out there wondering, how the hell am I going to take another step? And you have a bigger reason for doing it. Right. You realize that it's more than just, what can I prove to myself.

Yeah. So one of the things I talk about is making stakes that matter. And it's like, you know, part of it is, like, when you put on a big adventure. Like, when you. When you say, I'm gonna do this thing, if I say something that I'm gonna do something, I do it. And, like, I don't say stuff that I have no intention of finishing. So that's the first piece. The second piece is like, yeah, you're tired, but, like, you can read and you can, like, have basic education. And, you know, I have a whole rant about, like, higher education and college and, you know, the cost and everything there. But, like, there's a difference when it comes to, like, literacy and basic stuff. And. And, you know, people want to, like, make excuses about how their life is so hard or how things are, you know, really difficult, you know, for them. But when you see the contrast of, like, what is hard mode for your life and, like, not to say that people don't have things hard, but, like, when you travel, I've traveled quite a bit in a lot of different places, and you see what. How bad it can really get. And, like, people don't have water, people don't have education, Education, really basic stuff. It puts a lot of things in perspective.

It redefines what poverty means. It redefines what lack of opportunity really is. And it makes you realize that we have no excuse.

Well, just, like, things. Yeah. If you. If you start complaining about stuff, you just say, like, how many. How many billions of people would be killing other people to, like, be where you are spot and have that excuse of, oh, I'm just tired today, so I'm not going to work as hard as I want.

And it's hard to have that perspective until you've gone out and had that perspective and actually seen it, and it really just stops you in your tracks. That was actually one of the things that I said when we did our house build in Mexico. And I said, you know, it, number one, it doesn't necessarily remind me what's really important. It reminds me what's not important. And it's all the crap that we deal with and we think is weighing us down and causing us stress. When you look at people who live in abject poverty with dirt floors and just absolutely nothing and who would kill just to be able to go to the store and buy, you know, like a bottle of water and they can't do it. There's a lot of people out there like that. It kind of makes you wonder, like, oh, I'm stressed out about xyz.

Yeah. No. So I. The. One of the biggest stories or the most impactful stories I remember was I was in Guatemala a long time ago, probably 10 years ago now. And we did a tour of one of the slums, basically. And we walked through one of them and one of the ladies had like, you. You know, they basically eat rice and beans every single day. And, you know, some of them, you can get the nice rice and beans, which are certain amount, or you can get like half off rice and beans which have, like maggots in them. Literally maggots. And they would buy the half off ones because you could boil them. Wow. And then the maggots come to the top and then they would scrape them off. And you're like, I have a new perspective on things. And like, you know, like, if you're in the middle of the race and you're like, really tired, you're like, okay, well, I'm.

But I'm not eating maggots.

I'm not eating maggots. I have water. I can read. You know, like, there's basic things here. So, like, suck it up and you could be tired for a couple more hours. Joel.

Yeah. So let's. I want to talk a little bit more about the impossible list, because, yeah, you did these seven ultramarathons. But that's not all. You've got an entire running list on your website, impossiblehq.com right. Tell me about some of these other impossible things. You know, tasks you set, things that you've been either, like, really proud that you set a goal and you did that, or the things that you're working on now and looking forward to accomplishing.

Yeah, so the first couple ones were all just like race related. So it started with that triathlon. So triathlon kind of built things from there. So I did. I'VE done everything on a triathlon up to a half ironman. I still have to do an Ironman at some point, but I haven't had a bike and been in one place long enough to train for it. So that's the main constriction there. Done every ultra up to 100k. I would love to do 100 miler one of these days, but I just gotta slot that in at some point. Those are the big ones. When I first started, I. I worked. I had my blog, and I was working a day job for, like, three years, and I didn't necessarily know if I was gonna start my own business or not, but I was just like, this is a tool for me to live an interesting life. Yep. And I just started doing that. And then. So in 2012, I finally decided to quit my job and start my own marketing agency. And so that was like, a big thing for me. It was like, oh, I'm actually gonna do this. Yeah. And then ended up building a couple different companies and a couple different apps and have built, you know, that's. I would say between that stuff, the ultras and the, you know, the giving back, those are kind of like the three main cores of what I've done. And then, you know, coming up, it's like some more mundane stuff, like, I need to sign a lease at some point. Like, that's, like. That's on my list right now is I've been traveling for two and a half years and.

And finding one in San Diego, where you want to live for a price you want to pay.

Yeah, exactly.

Also, in another impossible task.

Almost impossible, so.

Such as finding a place like this.

Yeah, so. So the other thing is, like, travel is like, I've been to 45 countries, all seven continents. I'm one of, I think, six people to have done an ultramarathon on every continent. And I think I'm the youngest person to do it, too. So that's not like a crazy. Like, it's definitely. You can beat that mark. Like, I hope someone does. But those are like, yeah, some of the things now. Do you.

Is there anything in your. And if there is, you don't have to divulge what it is. But is there anything in your past that's kind of this darkness driving you to do that and to push yourself through? Because I found that a lot of people who push themselves to extreme success or throughout things like that are trying to kind of prove something, like to remove a chip on their shoulder or somebody who told them that something was impossible. As a kid or didn't believe in them. Is there anything in you or is it just. Or is this just kind of self motivated? Like, I just kind of want to do it for bigger reasons.

Yeah. So I think I don't have like anybody that told me I couldn't. I have a lot of like me telling me I couldn't. And I like, I use that, Joel, as like a motivation of like, I'm not. I've. I did that for a long time. I did that for like 23 years of my life where I was just like, no, you shouldn't do that because that's like too scary. Or that's like, I. Other people can do that, but you can't do that. And I just got sick of it. And I got tired of waiting for stuff to happen. And that was the thing. It was just waiting for stuff to happen. I realized stuff isn't going to just happen. And so for me, there's a two parter there where it's like, I just, I know, I know the person who I could be if I wasn't pushing, like, if I wasn't doing the things that I. And I don't want to be that person. Right. And then the other thing is like the thing about ultramarathons that put that I, I don't like running. I hate running.

Me too.

But the things that ultra running gives me where it's like you have to push yourself. Like the brace doesn't start until you're really uncomfortable. You know, like the race does. Ultra marathon doesn't start until you've gone a full marathon. Ultramarathon is literally defined as anything farther than a marathon.

Wow.

So you don't start an ultramarathon until most people have clocked in their marathon time and gone home. And so for me, like, ultramarathon is. It's like there's a therapy aspect of like, you can get all your demons out. Like, you can like, like just get everything in your head, out of your head. And it helps me in business. It teaches me all the different things that like, you know, on, like when I run into the same obstacles in business, they're all mental and they're all like ethereal and it's hard to like, put your, like your finger on it. But in an ultramarathon you can say, at mile 47, I wanted to quit. I had this happen. Like, my hips are locking up, my back started hurting, my feet were blistering. I wanted to give up, but I figured out how to keep pushing and then you have, like, a reference point, and you have something to point back to. And so I find constantly creating those reference points in, like, a physical world lets me go do other things that are more mental or, say, like, in my business or, like, hey, I'm having a hard time. I want to give up on that. Like, you can point back to, like, hey, remember when you thought you were going to give up there and you kept going? That's the same thing here. It's just in a different way.

It's a lot of parallels, and it is almost always meant. I mean, your. Your mind will often, as we, you know, tell you to stop before your body is willing to stop. Your body will go so much further. I mean, that was going back to what we were talking about. Jesse Itzler. That was one of the big things that he realized in, you know, living with the Seal and doing all of that other stuff. And, you know, I've.

I just. I just did hell on the hill. Lap 20, I was like, I think I'm done. I don't think I want to do.

Anymore, and I'm gonna go get in that hot tub.

And I just told myself, you have to get to 65. If you get to 65, then you're 30, 66% done. Yeah. Like, you have 30, you know, 35% left. Like, just get to 65 and then you're home. And so, like, literally 20, I was like, this is. This seems hard. I did. I've done it two years in a row this year. I was like, this seems harder than before. I don't know what's going on. But this. I trained more for it this year, and I had a worse time. And I was just like, want to give up, like, at 20? And I was like, you just have to get to 65. You have to do that. And then you push through. And then you realize, like, yeah, just because you're five year, you're basically all in. And just because your mind says you want to give up at 20 doesn't mean you have to.

Right? And it is like, it is like that in business. It's like that in life. It's like that in relationships. It's like that in a lot of stuff. When things get really hard and think, I don't know if I can push through this. I can see how. And I say I can see. I can imagine. Because I've actually never done the physical things to where I've pushed myself that past. Maybe I'm too much of a wuss. Maybe I Just haven't had that drive to go, screw this, I'm gonna go do it. But I can see how you can draw that parallel and draw some of the strength from those past victories over that noise in your head that gets you to stop. Let's transition over to business. So you mentioned you started a marketing agency and you started other, other businesses, an app. What, what fuels you now financially? Like how do you, how do you afford to do all this stuff and, and live a kind of a nomadic life at the moment? And what do you do for a living?

Yeah, so first of all, it's cheaper than you think it would be because you don't actually have to pay rent. Although I've. I've started running into the realization of like adding up all my hotel bills and I'm like, actually rep might be cheaper than. Exactly. So I do. So when I first quit my job, I started a marketing agency and I was just doing like lead gen. I actually started that while I was at, I was doing. I was working at a marketing agency and I started freelancing on the side and so basically took some of the side clients that I had and that was my full time thing. I moved abroad to like you know, really baseline expenses and just like started ramping those up. Right around 2012 I started noticing a bunch of stuff in the Paleo space was like starting to get really popular. And so I had written a, I did a. I think my first info product was like called Impossible Abs. It was about like one of the things about Impossible was get six pack abs and do a photo shoot. And I did that and I wrote a book on it. We did a product launch to Impossible. Went really well. We had a bunch of people have like crazy success. And I mentioned in it that basically the regimen was combination of intermittent fasting and Paleo and it was a modified version of it. It was basically that. And when I, you know, that product did really well. But I got a ton of people asking me, oh, what's this Paleo thing? And so I was like, okay, there's something there, but I don't want it impossible to be just a Paleo business. And so I started a website. I was like tired of answering all these like, you know, basically 500 word responses to people asking me about how do I get started with Payo. So I built a one page website on how to do that that got really popular and then it started kind of blowing up from there. So I doubled down a little bit on there. And so basically I have this Paleo nutrition business. That's like a large paleo information site we have. We're expanding into like keto and other spaces in the low carb, high fat area. We have a meal planning service there. We're rolling out a software version right now that everything is basically helps people learn to cook and prepare their meals in a healthy, affordable way. And everything's made with less than five ingredients in under 15 minutes. And the way the whole software will work is people can actually plan their meals out online now, add or remove meals, favorite meals, remove anything they don't like, and then also order their ingredients online via like Instacart, Thrive Market, Amazon Fresh, Whole Foods, whatever, and I'll actually show up at the door. So that's, that's, that's killer. That's launching here in the next couple weeks here. And so that's like one business. And we have a couple different apps associated with that. We have a food list, like reference app, we have a recipe app. But that's like our business that kind of just sprung up because I was messing around with stuff on Impossible and made a couple products and then we found out this whole space.

I love it when businesses spring up out of the other stuff you're doing almost like just naturally or organically. That's, that's, that's always fun. What about. So you've got the.

So that's one. So that's one. I've got a. Another app called. So we started making apps and realized, okay, like most people make apps and they screw it up. Like they get like free users, but they don't know how to get like a paid app to get an audience. It's like, oh, I have an audience. Maybe I could start building some apps around that. So one of them is when I got hurt, I had to do a bunch of rehab for my leg. And I hated doing rehab because I would go into the office or the PT place and I would do it, but then I would never do it on my own because I was like, okay, I know, I know I need a foam roll, but I don't know what part, I'm not sure how long to do it, etc.

Reruns of Burn Notice are on.

Yeah, exactly. And so I, we ended up building an app called MoveWell, which is basically 10 minute mobility routines. So if you're an athlete, if you're like a regular person and a lot of people just have lower back pain because they're sitting down all the time. Like if you do 10 minutes of mobility work, a Day you start feeling amazingly better in weight. Like it hurts and it sucks for 10 minutes but you could feel really good. And we've had people like get off their medications and like not have to like get back surgery and do all these things because they're doing simple like 10 minute mobility routines and we basically walk you through. It's basically a mobile coach. That's great of like hey, do you have lower back pain? Here's 10 minutes of like the exercises and walks you through with a timer and everything.

That's super cool. My wife is struggling right now with. She's got the. Because of how she sits on the computer using it all day and especially her right hand on the mouse. Her entire like the right side of her back and upper neck is all in knots. And she's going to see physical therapists and done everything she can to try to kind of release that and is 100%, you know, repetitive stress of sitting with a certain posture. I'm going to tell her to download that app.

Yeah, well it's a free download and then it's. We have a couple paid routines in there as well. But so we have that and then Impossible. I've got. I've got a couple different fitness programs that we're doing online. We have different boot camps we'll do here and there. And then I'm rolling out some physical products. We have a. We have an apparel store rolling out some more like actual physical products. Thinking about getting into like the supplement space as well.

Nice.

And kind of doing a. I. We've done a lot of stuff especially with Impossible digitally and we have like a pretty good reach and the brand is really well known. But the things that I'm really get excited about are impacting people in a physical, tangible way. And so that's why we built the apps because it's not like we've got a lot of good concepts that people are like, oh that's a good idea, I'll do that someday. But the app will actually get in front of their face every single day and they're doing something with it. The apparel. When people go make their. We've had hundreds if not thousands of people make their Impossible list and put them out there and then like go get an Impossible shirt. And then they'll go like, hey, I'm gonna go skydiving. And I'm terrified to go skydiving but I'm gonna wear my Impossible shirt. And it's basically impossible with a line through it, mind you, to go after it. And people do that. And like they'll send that in and like it's a physical reminder that you can't be, you can't just call it in today. You have to go push yourself. And I love creating products and services and things that not just inspire people to go do something impossible, but actually go do those things.

Right. Do you have any type of coaching, mentor aspect to your business as well at the moment or.

No, I, I'll do consulting. So I'll do consulting for like funded startups and I'll do some speaking. I've started doing a lot more speaking like this summer, but I don't do, not necessarily. I haven't done a lot of coaching or mentorship one on one with my audience per se. A lot of my audience will have like, you know, I just spoke at Dude Solutions, which is $100 million company sales company out in North Carolina and a couple of my readers work there. So they're like, hey, can we bring you in for this specific thing? So I'll have a lot of situations like that, but I don't necessarily do one on one coaching, mentoring with individuals.

Right.

I haven't said anything about that.

What is business wise? What takes up the most of your time? Which of the projects?

So the paleo business is I would say takes up most, not most of my time, but this is the latest project that I've been working on is removing myself from the business. So at one point I actually had several offers from people to buy it and I talked to a lot of my friends who have sold businesses and they said it was awesome for like the first six months and then I had a chunk of money and I was looking to go around and buy businesses just like the one I sold. And everybody I talked to said that. So like I wish I would have just elevated myself out of the business and not had to do anything with it. So literally the conversations I had this morning before this conversation was how do I elevate myself out of the business and building out that team to replace any of the functions that I'm in. So I would say it's not necessarily requiring a lot of my time from like a day to day basis, but like architecting the, the structure of the team to operate without me is sort of the bigger piece right there. And then if I get that, then it's literally going to be like 80 impossible. 20. Like 80, 80, 20, 20% Paleo and then whatever else fits in.

You know, a quick resource for you on that because I literally just bought this book yesterday and it's a former two time guest on my show named Mike Michalowicz. He's the author of a book called Profit first and the Toilet Paper Entrepreneur and the Pumpkin Plan and pull of other stuff. Well he, he just wrote a book called Clockwork and I can't remember the subtitle but it's all about removing yourself from the business so that it can run without you for that exact same concept. I think we had a fan.

Yeah, we had a fan sitting here watching. Should invite him over.

Yeah, yeah, the is that's one thing to check out. I'm also going to send you another one. I'm because you know, we met up at Perry Marshall's thing and I just read one of Perry's most recent newsletters. He had a guest writer and the guy had just sold a company to, I think he sold it to Stripe. So he had a nice exit and he's got another business and it really is, it's a cool newsletter. It's all about the importance of number one, build a company. And I've always believed this, build a company to sell it. Even if you don't, you're going to build a better company to run. And he, he gives a lot of just tremendous advice on that. So for myself, I've sold a couple businesses in the past and they haven't been for big exits to where I get the fu money. But it allowed me to move out to San Diego. It allowed me to have some freedom and to kind of start over and do some stuff that I wanted to do on my own terms. And then I recently, this past year I bought a business and so I've done a lot of thinking on both sides of this and taking some actions. And it is if you can buy a business that that's really systematized, can kind of run without you, you can get a much, much, much higher multiple later on. And if not, yeah, you've got a cash cow that kind of runs in the background while the other people do the work.

So I keep talking about him but like you're gonna sick of me. I'm not plugging in my promise, but my buddy Dan Andrews is the guy that was Tropical. Yeah, he's the one that sold this thing and he wrote a book called before the Exit. And it's all about like thinking about thought experiments of if you thinking about selling your business. Here's what I wish I would have thought through before I sold it. And then it's like literally just the automation aspects. How do you, how do you Elevate yourself out of it. And it's like, that was one of those things that made me start second guessing and be like, all right, you don't have to sell it just because you're bored or like you're, you know, you. You don't want to spend any more energy on it. There's other ways you can elevate yourself out of it and do something with it.

Right. Do you do any. You said you had a marketing agency before. Do you still do any agency consulting work or.

No. So I don't like the agency model at all. We have a couple Legion programs that kind of run on autopilot for a couple different clients. And those are pretty passive, but that's kind of the extent. Yeah, I like lead gen because it's literally just. It's just cut and dry. It's like, do you want the lead or not? Versus like, what did you do this month? What did you like? I don't know. Do you want that lead or not?

Exactly. That's more productized. It's like a productized agency. In fact, have you ever read. Speaking of this and good tie in. Built to Sell by John Warlow?

I've heard parts of it. I have to fit.

Great book. Because the whole story, the whole book is done in a. As a story of somebody who had a marketing agency and they were just working themselves to the bone, tons of scope creep. And it's all about how they changed it to where it's a very productized service, like just logos or just this aspect of design. Not everything. And by systematizing and productizing it, it gave them the freedom to be able to sell. And also. But I happen to be interviewing John, the author of that book, in. In a couple of weeks. And it's one of my favorite books. And I'm really excited to be doing that because it's. This is a big thing for me because I am actually trying to buy more businesses and because I do like this aspect, but I don't want to buy them and personally operate and run them because that's not. That's not actually my strength. And in fact, I just did. One of my more recent episodes is one with Carl Allen, who's bought like 180 businesses over the past 20 or 30 years. And he's got some amazing programs and mentorship, etc. But I really liked a lot of the things he had to say. It's 100% what we're talking about, the systemization. When you can do that, it allows you to Go in, buy businesses and run them without being the operator. What's a nut you're trying to crack right now? Maybe that's in your business, maybe that's your personal life. And a nut you're trying to crack could be anything from a challenge. You're trying to overcome money, you're trying to raise a skill, you're trying to learn a person, you're trying to meet, find, hire or whatever, really be anything. But it's where like I can kind of put my wheels and my listeners wheels to motion and see if there's a connection we can make.

Yeah. So there's two things with the paleo business. It's all. I realize it's all, I'm just the cog in the machine right now. I'm like, I'm not the cog. I'm the choke point. And like getting out of my own head to like, you're not that important. Just let someone else take care of it. It's going to be fine.

And so the face of it, like.

Or is it so I have a, I have a nutritionist that like we've. She's been kind of taking over. The face of it, it's the marketing aspects that I like, I could bring someone else in to do marketing. It's going to be okay. And it's really more of a. It's almost like a guilt thing. Like, oh, if I don't do it then like I'm just having someone else do it. And like I should be doing more work but like I need to be doing different roles. I need to be doing the ownership. I need to be like helping the team out. I shouldn't be doing the marketing thing. There's a higher level there for me. So that's more of just like I have that realization and I'm just like constantly saying that over and over to myself. Just like as a leveling up. The other thing is we're looking at doing like products and supplements on the impossible side. Yeah. And that's a whole different type of business than I've run in the past where all of a sudden you're carrying inventory and you're taking, okay, I'm just taking this chunk of change and just stick it in a warehouse. And we're looking at ways to either potentially crowdfund like a couple first rounds or something like that, just to literally just pre sell everything. And then do you have any idea.

What kind of supplements you're looking at? What kind of lines?

I. We could talk about it. Yeah, I have a I have like a list of different ones I want to do, but I'm probably not quite ready to talk about that on there. But we could talk about, may have.

Some resources for you there that could work out.

Yeah, that's, that's really interesting for me because Impossible's been a really good brand and we do really well from like a digital scale. And what I'm really interested again is just like the physical, like getting into people's lives on a regular basis and helping them actually perform at the best, feel at their best, like do like whatever, whatever ways they can push their limits and do something impossible. That's what I want to be able to enable and I think there's a lot of opportunity in that space.

Yeah, I do too. And I mean your brand definitely lends itself to that. You know, I think we both know a bunch of people and there are a million of them out there that like, especially in the supplements, like copycat supplements, it's, hey, I just created a name for a product so I can sell something somebody else can too. And just general marketing, those are kind of like, you know, short lived. They burst up maybe a little bit traffic.

I have a lot of friends who've done stuff like that. I'm like, it's not what I'm interested in.

But when it supplements, pun intended. A brand that already exists, that people like, you've already got a community and you've got people who know like trust you. And especially when the brand is like, especially it has to be an impossible supplements, impossible protein, impossible, you know, possible nutrition. Yeah, yeah, something like that. Then it, it builds on everything else and it's, I mean the name Impossible is just such a cool in a lot of ways that can lend itself to something. I think that, yeah, you'd be crazy not to go more physical product, more supplement.

And with the, with the supplements it's more of like that's a specific nut I'm cracking. Yeah. It's not like I'm trying to build a supplement company. I want to build a, I want to build Impossible as a company and supplements are a branch of it. Yes. But it's a holistic thing and it's like even if you don't use the supplements, there's other things you can do here. But you're probably going to want to take them because they're like, you know, I was going through with our manufacturer on, on what we want to include and they're like, this is going to be like, they're not going to be necessarily like like, they're not inexpensive ingredients. And he's like, yeah, the stuff that you're wanting to include here was probably more than like, I have a. There's a company that I really like called Volabak and they started doing adventure apparel company. And they, they started off as like Adidas guys and they have a term in the clothing space where they're like, here's all the cool stuff that we'd like. And then they have accountants go through and they strip out all the things that you can't include from like a cost standpoint. And so they were doing that Adidas all the time. They're like, this sucks. We just want to build the stuff that we really want. And so they end up building like super high end adventure apparel gear that's like, oh, that sweatshirt's like 300 to 500. But like, you can wear it on the side of a mountain and like you could fall on a crevasse and you're gonna survive for. So like, and they're killing it.

There's a.

And. And there's a. And there's a space there where it's like, I, I'm not just looking to sell products at like a CVS or something.

Now you want to do the higher end?

Yeah, I want to do. I want to do something that's like, it costs money, but it actually works. And it's not just, you know, whatever the crowd.

I think it may have been Seth Godin who made that kind of famous. Was it Seth or was it somebody else who talked about the long tail? Maybe Chris Anderson. But I know Seth talks a lot about it, which is that for the first time in the history of marketing, advertising, et cetera, because of the Internet and because of hyper targeted focus things, we're able to go after the long tail, which means that hyper target, very small niche, who will pay a lot for that. They want the emotional appeal, they want the bonding with that. And you can carve out a very lucrative space going, going super niche and very high end. There's also another book that I read.

I get a list of books here.

I know, right? A book I read just recently called Simplify by Richard Koch, who was the. He also wrote 80 20.

80 20? Yeah.

And Perry Marshall is good friends with him. And that's where he wrote 8020 sales and marketing with him. However, Richard just wrote a book, amazing book called Simplify and Simplify. He's like, all the greatest companies out there are either simplifying one of two things. They're either Simplifying the price. Walmart is a good example. Why do you go to Walmart? Lowest price, like biggest selection, lowest price, period. And then there's the other side, which is a proposition simplifier. And somebody who's going after the opposite is. And Apple is a perfect example of a proposition simplifier. We're going to simplify the computer. We're going to make it so doggone easy to use and pleasurable, you're going to spend a lot more money. We're not going to simplify the price. It's going to be at a premium, but everything about it is just going to be, wow, this experience is so simply awesome. And so if you can give somebody that proposition simplification of if you're trying to achieve the impossible in life and you're trying to do this, we're going to give you the tools, resources, supplements and energy that fuels you in that. So we're gonna make accomplishing what you want to accomplish simpler to do by this. So it's, it's a really cool mind shift change that I hadn't really heard about that proposition simplification which allows you to go to the high end of the market. I love that.

I like that.

Dude, that's great. Are you looking for, are there any connections you're looking for, any people you're trying to meet? Anything that's been out of reach lately?

I'm, I'm interested in people who've done stuff in the physical product space because it's so different, and then people who've done specific things around the launching of those products.

Do you know Ed o', Keefe, by the way?

So I, I saw Ed and we've been going back and forth a little.

Bit because Ed was at.

Yeah, he was at.

A big investor in no Foods Supplement Guy and Hell on the Hill several times.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm picking his brain. I was really hoping I was going to get out to Nashville this year, but I'm going to be out of the country. So I'm going to hope he puts on another event.

Yeah.

Before the end of next year.

And I've got a couple other people I can introduce you to who I think you'll gel really well with. Done big stuff and physical products, supplement, etc. And really know how to supercharge that.

Yeah.

What is the next big challenge you're looking forward to?

So I've got a little bit more travel coming up here, but then I think we talked about this. Like I actually, the scary thing for me right now is you know, like, you booked me a flight to a country I've never been to before, and I'm totally cool with it. I'm really comfortable with travel at this point. I'm really kind of nervous about signing a lease anywhere. So, like, the next scary thing for me is like signing a 12 month lease and I have to figure out where that is. Yeah. So that's one thing. San Diego. I know this place is amazing. So there's. That, there's. It's. The. The challenge for me is also like, it's the. The business aspect of just getting on my own head and like letting the team run stuff. And yeah, they. They've done a good job. Like, I trust them and I just have to like, just take that step.

Right.

And then the third thing would be just like the, like the. Just the new business challenges that I'm doing where I'm like, all right, I Finally, like, I finished 777. That was the big thing. Making new goals. I've got a couple other races. There's a. There's a seven day ultra marathon across Iceland that seems like pretty interesting. And there's this thing called the Red Bull X Alps, which is a ultra running and paragliding race. And I don't know how to paraglide, but I'm like, yeah, I would learn to do that. So there's those things. But so it's, you know, between business, between life and then ultra is like a paraglide.

I'll paraglide for 100k. Yeah, like 100k, you know, kilometers. Have you been paralyzed? No, but you know what's crazy is they have the glider port here in La Jolla.

Yeah, yeah.

I've never done it. I want to.

Dude. If I was.

How long you out here?

I'm leaving. I'm going to L. A tomorrow.

You son of a bitch.

But I was. I'll be back in November or late October.

Well, let's do it.

I'm in. Paragliding is like, weirdly peaceful. You're just up there floating around like I did the tandem one. But I've never.

I can't believe I've lived here for six years and never gone out there. Always wanted to. Whatever. Well, man, I really appreciate you joining me here at Beach House 1.

And you'd have to make this a thing. This is a spot to do podcasts.

Does not stop at. Does not suck. Hey, to all my listeners, if you're. If you're still here or. I don't even know if my video still on. Deb, are we still videoing? Battery has not won low power mode. We're rocking and rolling. But thanks for watching, thanks for listening and if if you enjoyed this, share this on social media, leave a comment, leave a review on itunes and do me a favor, I've talked about a lot of books here. Send me a Send me an email to a book you recommend. Ask bradbaconratbusiness.com I love to add that to my Kindle queue as well as if you've got a business that maybe you have hit a plateau, maybe you're stuck, maybe things you don't really know how you're going to turn it around, Send me an email to ask bradakenratbusiness.com I'm happy to see if I can give you a second opinion on it and see if we can help get you unstuck. And until next time, Joel man, thanks a lot for stopping by. As I said, I've really enjoyed this.

Yeah, thanks for having me on. This is great.

See you guys on the next episizzle.