Tom Collins: The 8 Figure Business Builder

How do you make business problems disappear? Wrap them in bacon.

For business owners, marketing execs, and anyone trying to grow your business, pump your.

Profits and make more while doing less. Welcome to Bacon Wrapped Business with Brad Costanzo. Sizzling hot business advice guaranteed to make you fat profits. Every week, our chefs will serve you proven recipes for ramping up your revenue.

Now, here's your host, Brad Costanzo.

Hey. Hey. Welcome back to the kitchen. This is Brad Costanzo, and today we're cooking up some amazing business strategy. And I've got some awesome advice, including my guest, who is one of the most knowledgeable, talented marketing minds out there that I've run across. I've known him for years, and he agreed to be a guest on the show today. The topic we're going to cover today is, or it should be, at the heart of every business owner's mind and strategy. Far too often as business owners, we get caught up in just developing new clients or new customers and getting them in the door and how many new customers can we get? And then we forget about the rest of the process. We forget about the entire sales funnel, the experience. We forget about what the potential lifetime value of a customer is. And the reason that's important is because when you know that you have the ability to optimize the amount of money that a customer spends with you and increase that over time, it increases your ability to do so many more things on the front end. If you can outspend your competition on the front end, you can dominate any market you're in. And the way you do that is by looking at your business holistically all the way in from the, the first time a customer gets to you to the last dollar they spend and getting them to spend more and more often. It just so happens that today my guest is Tom Collins, and Tom is on the other line. I'm going to bring him in in just a second. Tom is an expert at this entire process. In fact, he used to be the vice president for about a decade and a half of one of the largest direct response and information marketing companies in the country. He's the scenes of some of the biggest household names, information gurus from various different fields, and he has seen what very few people have seen under the hood behind the scenes and has tremendous value to share. I'm going to bring him on right now. Tom, are you there?

Hey, Brad. Yeah, I'm here. How are you?

I'm doing fantastic. So I just introduced the folks to you, and I, I want to repeat that. I'm really Honored to have you on the show because every time we've gotten together, whether it's in Masterminds or over a beer, and I've had the opportunity to kind of dive into your brain and your experience and what you've been able to do, I've always been amazed by the depth of knowledge you have when it comes to an entire business's sales funnel. And I'm not talking about little businesses, we're talking about multi, multi million dollar businesses. So today I really want to, in the heart of the, you know, the bacon wrapped business show, I want to, I want us to show people how they can wrap some bacon around their entire business by optimizing the stuff that they may not even realize is possible. And you know, I want to go, I don't want to go into your entire, you know, background in history. I hate shows that do that. So, hey, Tom, tell me, where'd you grow up? What were you like as a teenager? Yeah, exactly. I know you're going with the jerk.

The.

I do that all the time. Then I have to stop myself. So where are you today? You live in Salt Lake, is that right?

Yeah, I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. Married, have three kids that are all two teenagers and one well on his way. And We've been here 17, 18 years. Grew up in Las Vegas, so kind of have a twisted background because of that. So, yeah, the Mormon guy from Las Vegas named Tom Collins. So that always makes for interesting conversation. Yeah, so I guess people always want to know about my background, so.

Well, it's very important in this case because your background and what you've been able to see and then do and now help others with is really what makes your knowledge, in my opinion, so powerful. So tell us a little bit about what you did.

And, and I'll tell you, I didn't really respect this until, you know, I started going to mastermind groups and people go, hey, whoa, that's different. And I go, yeah, I know it's different. That's why I don't fit in. But so I did. You know, I grew up with a, in a blue collar background, great upbringing, all that, but had that consumer perspective of like, how do people make money? Right. And so I was given this gift in my 20s thinking, okay, I really don't have career. I got a degree at BYU and all that, but I didn't have a career planned out and had no clue how to do it. So I went after a job in sales and I thought, okay, if I can make good money in sales, I can do really well. And some of my, the guys that I grew up watching had done well in sales. And I landed in a company that was started by a couple of my buddies from byu and we thought, okay, this will be cool, maybe I can make some money and then I can figure out what I'll do for a career. So I'm in my mid-20s and next thing you know we kind of grew and I got promoted and started running a coaching division. And I'd had previous sales training experience as a sales manager and worked for Stephen Covey for a while. So I was one of the few like educated guys in this company and like running a company. And so what happened was not just doing that. We were the back end sales machine, selling coaching behind a lot of direct response gurus that ran seminars, tv, online, direct mail. And I found myself in this position where we would bring on a new account and we would go to their company and sit in their boardroom, me and my couple buddies that were owners and they would, because we were going to sell for them, they were insistent that we knew every single detail about how they ran their business and how they generated leads and how they made sales so that when we called and did the follow up sales, we could be congruent, be in sync, right? And at first, you know, I was just floored because you know, you can buy direct response marketing books and training. But we saw and we were dealing with 50 and 100 million dollar companies and I would just be just blown away and go, wow, look at these guys. Amazing. But we just took studious notes. And the great thing about that experience was we dealt with dozens of these companies over the years. As our company grew, we got better at it and we started sharing that knowledge with other clients and lo and behold, it would help them and we'd go, hey, that works. You know, they didn't just tell us that that's what they did, that actually works for everybody. So we started collecting this wealth of knowledge and applying it to our other clients and it grew business for everyone. And it was just this phenomenal, kind of like surreal ride because, you know, I just barely knew how to sell when all this started after 10 years of it. I mean we dealt with the guys who started MySpace, some of the Dean Graziosi, some of the other big names that people have seen. And by the end of that, the first decade, we were the guys going, hey, here's how the formula works, let's just plug it into you and we'll make you millions and millions of dollars. Just come be a partner to the right person, to the right company. And so it was just this gift that I've been giving. And we had the perspective of one learning from these companies and then implementing and seeing things work. But we also talk to their customers in real time. So we really knew what worked, what customers liked, what they didn't like. And we could say, hey, that didn't work. The customers are mad. They're all canceling or, wow, here's what's missing. They're all telling us they want more of this or that or the other. So we just saw the front end from the back end. And over time, we went from this kind of, hey, they created a lead and we do some coaching sales to two and three years of planning of how to create loyal customers and what we'll do month after month, year after year, to retain as customers as long as we could. And it just evolved over time. And so I look back in hindsight and just am grateful because it was a huge, huge gift.

Yeah. I can't tell you how much I wish I could just plug into all of the experience and the little corners that you've seen where things are happening behind the scenes that somebody else would totally miss. And you're like, no, this is what we're doing, and this is what they did. And this is why I love how you started off and you learned from them, and then you became. You learn from them not just the back end, but the front end for necessity. And I think that's a really, really important point because all too often, as I said in the very, very beginning of the show, I think business owners focus because of lack of time. Right. They focus on just one area. Okay, I'm just gonna go get new customers, new customers, new customers and get more people in the door. And then they just neglect the people who came in. It's also really important that you said you talk to the people who are already customers and found out, you know, what it is they want. One of my clients who owns a business and was asking me for more help and developing his, you know, his, his front, front end conversion and his unique selling proposition, etc. He was asking how to do that, and it was a really simple question. I said, you know, how often do you pick up the phone and call your customers and find out, why did you buy from me? What would you like most? What you. What'd you like least? What do you, you know, what would you recommend? Just get in conversations with them, and number one, it'll It'll do amazing because people aren't used to that. But number two, the amount of information you'll dig up and you'll be able to provide on the front end is, you know, it's also powerful. Actually, some of my best sales copy that I've written for either myself or my clients has come from immediately after. Like in an online business, if they purchased a product is immediately a two question survey. I'd usually ask them, hey, real quick question before you log into this software that you just purchased. Number one, where did you hear about us? And usually I know that from analytical and tracking, but I still ask them to soften up to the next question is what was the main reason you decided to make this investment today? And I had, I have one client who sells software as a service for real estate investors. And one of the, one of the answers happened to be I'm tired of killing myself trying to find motivated sellers. So I was like, that's great language patter. I'm going to simply turn that around. And we used it on a, you know, in an email copy and on a squeeze page. Tired of killing yourself trying to find motivated sellers? Here's the answer. And it improved conversions. We got that directly from talking to some past customers.

Well, you just took the conversation that was in their head and realized that there was a lot of other people with that same feeling, right?

Absolutely, yeah.

That's awesome. Those are great questions, by the way.

Oh yeah, they work tremendously well. So a lot of folks listening to this may or may not be really familiar with the term a sales funnel. Hopefully they are. But a sales funnel really is getting somebody, somebody in the door with oftentimes just whether it's something free or a front end product and get them taking the small steps to spending money with you and then selling them more and more often and through the doors. And that's, you know, the sales funnel is really one of the areas that you're a master of. But offline, you and I talked a little bit about this and I want you to elaborate. You say that a lot of people stop with a very basic sales funnel and they don't think about this on a longer term perspective and what they can do. So tell me a little bit more about. And you can phrase it as the way you work with a client or the way that you work with anybody else. Tell me your perspective on that.

So I get accused of using different cliches and different things, but there's two things I want to say. The first one is I Think what happens with business owners is, like you said, they get good at one thing, and when you're good at playing a certain game, you want to play that game, right? And in business, you constantly either have to be growing or adding other value to your business for your customers, but also to the ability of your business to grow. And usually at some point that gets beyond you or that one game that you play. And so using that as the preference, what I see a lot of is a lot of people are learning from marketing careers this great thing of how to acquire a customer, right? And so they have, I call them an acquisition funnel because it's one type of sale that people make and it's how they acquire a customer and it's how they start making a profit or how they get certain revenue so that they can afford to advertise. Right. And the better your initial acquisition or sales funnel is, the more money you can spend in advertising. What a lot of people do is they think that's their business. They think that's it. And so what happens is, if you grew up in Internet marketing, it was, hey, make an offer, build a list, and then send your people to other people's offers, and then you lose them and they're gone from you forever. But what we found is typically, if you plan on having people for a lifetime and you treat those customers. In fact, here's a better way to say it. I have a friend, Jim Labety, pro grade nutrition, and he quotes a guy from Paul Mitchell. He says, we're not in the hair product business, we're in the reorder business. So they focus all of their energy on, yes, getting customers, but they want their customers to have such a good experience. They come back time and time again, they talk about the company, they refer people to the company. Right. So I've always been a back end quote guy, but it's being able to say, hey, what are your step in their evolution? And the next thing they want that you're not offering them, maybe you should be offering that to them. Right? So we built a little formula based on how to grow your business so you can afford to advertise and grow your business that way.

Yeah, that's fantastic. You know, there's a. I forget where I heard this. I wish I had created this saying because I love it and I've used it a lot. But. And I believe it's very, very true that never in history has it been harder to get somebody to spend their first dollar with you.

Yeah.

But never has it been easier.

Yeah.

And more important, to get them to spend time and time again and to buy again from you. And it's that, it's that reorder process and it's whether they're reordering the same thing or they're ordering more or more expensive products and more of a different thing. But the front end acquisition is where a lot of that gets put into place.

But yeah, they just stop there. So whether you're selling, you want them to buy your product line, or if you want them to order continuity forever or send them into a coaching or sell life insurance to them three steps down the road or whatever you're selling, but it's understanding that. So there's two things that I see is I see a lot of people that they abuse their customer in the first debt acquisition funnel. So the customer never wants to buy from them again because they feel a little used, a little manipulated. And the other is they, they do a good job acquiring the customer and then they never do anything with them again, you know, So I. Can I share a story with you?

Oh, please do.

So. So I have a friend here in Salt Lake City, made their big first hit in information marketing, selling well. He's a podcasting company blogger and Jeremy Fransen's his name, and came to me and said, hey, you know what, we want to start doing paid traffic and advertising. I know you do that. I don't think I want to be as aggressive as you guys are. We're not into, you know, really aggressive selling. Do you have some ideas? So we sat down and basically I showed them a plan and what we did is we said, hey, you have X number of customers. What else do you offer them? Nothing. Well, so we asked them, and you've seen this in a million other places, but we just asked them, what would you guys want if we offered any more product? They wanted a couple of things. He built those products and they sold them. And the first two times they did this, they had such overwhelming response. They actually, they sold out. They put a limit on how many they'd sell and they sold out both times, like in an hour or two. They were, you know, hitting themselves on the head going, why didn't we offer more people?

No kidding.

But they literally went from six figures, you know, mid six figures to a couple million dollars. And they still do not have paid traffic, you know, well, they do now, but they didn't at the time during that lift. And all they do is they just ask their customers, hey, what do you want to hear from us? Here's what other people like, do you want the same thing? Yes. Great. And they just. They let people from them and they've made literally double, triple their money from it. And as they've gone into pay traffic, it's just been a really easy thing because now they have more than enough money to advertise. And, you know, that's everybody's big pain is I don't have enough money to advertise. You know, where do I do that? These guys don't have the problem anymore.

Right. You know, that's one of the funniest things so many people talk about. You know, I need more capital in my business. I need more money to do xyz. Well, money is almost always.

Back up.

A lot of them end up going out and raising money from friends, family, venture capital, credit cards, where money is really a function of you don't have enough sales because if you did, money wouldn't be a problem. And people don't see where all the possibilities for sales are throughout the entire line. They. They just believe it's very. It's linear and it's not. Sales are hiding in all types of nooks and crannies. And there's a. You know, that's one of the things I do for a living. One of the things you do is we find those hidden pockets of profit that can be optimized, and then it can literally change the future of a business. Tom, a few minutes ago, though, before you got into your story, you said something, and I'd love for you to extrapolate on that. You said sometimes people abuse a customer when they first come in the door.

Yeah.

Can you explain what you mean by that and maybe any examples of how customers are getting abused and the business owner doesn't even know they're doing it?

You know, so what I've seen is, and we saw it originally just on the back end, and we just started talking to customers going, hey, do you want to buy more? And they're like, no, I hate that person. They sold me what I want. And this is the typical language that I hear. I wanted to get the thing. And when I got there, they showed me these other things that if I'd have known about them in the first place, I'd have just bought them anyway. But what I'm really ticked off about is the manipulative way they sold me. I really wanted the products, so I bought them, but I refused to do business with them anymore because they were using manipulative tricks instead of just presenting value and offer. Right. Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense. And by the way, that's, you know, that's one of the.

They don't know they're cheating themselves when they use manipulative tricks like that. Right?

And from what I've seen, like I mentioned earlier, it's never been harder to get that front end customer right. And sometimes you feel as though. And when I say you, I think some, I don't mean you, but sometimes people feel as though they need to do pull out every trick in the bag in order to get that first dollar out of somebody's pocket. Whereas the reason I believe it's the hardest time to sell the first, you know, to get the first dollar out of somebody is the Internet, social media and the ability for people to, before they buy, they Google you and if they find there's message boards, there's forums, there's negative comments and no longer can you hide behind core service or manipulative sales practices because the consumer now has a voice like they never have had before. So it creates the need to be as authentic, forthcoming as possible on the front end, even to the detriment of front end sales. Because yeah, you might get a few more customers in the door, but if you do it in a way that sours them, not only are they going to ruin your reputation up front, but they won't do. The most important thing in business is reorder and buy more. So that's why it's so important to be authentic and give so much value up front and then optimize that process to reorder. So you told me earlier that you have a magic trick that you wanted to share and you started to tell me a little bit about it. I was like, no, no, no, no, save this for the show. So tell me about your own little bacon wrap magic.

Okay, so the magic, we kind of shared it with sharing Jeremy's story. And that is if you have customers already and you can survey using your survey, I think is an excellent way to do it. There's a dozen to skin it, right? There's anyway. But the magic trick is to your customers and ask them, hey, what's missing? What do you wish you were getting and what are. So here's the thing, here's the writer downer, right? So when your customers complain to you, turn it around on one, talk to them, say, hey, what could we have done better? And you're going to hear this phrase and it's called I wish, I wish you guys or wish your company X and just make notes on that and when you see a repeating pattern, you have a clue. Also, you know when you survey them and say, hey, what do you want more? They're going to tell you that. And then, oh gosh, I just, my mind just blew on the third one. But there's a third one that I will remember in the thing, but they're going to tell you what's. Oh, so the third one is when people leave you and they go buy from somebody else, pay attention to what they bought. And that's the hardest one. You usually hear that in the conversations or the survey. They say, well, you didn't offer me this, so I went and bought it from Target, didn't offer this, so I went to Walmart to get it is how you'll hear that language. And if you listen to your most ticked off customers and your best buyers, they'll give you the best intelligence. So take that information, turn it around, package it up into a valuable offer and offer it to your customers. And now you have new revenue at a better product margin because you don't have to acquire any new customers. And it's really, really that simple. And so that's where Jeremy kind of twisted, he said, dude, you got to go share this. And so I set up a little free training. It's called the 3x2x. It's basically what you do is use this little model to take your current business, double it by offering some back end things right down the lines of what people are wishing for. I wish you'd offer me this. You offer that to them, you sell it to them and then you take that money and then you go create more leads with it. Every new lead, now you have the back end system, so you'll double those down and you can literally triple or quadruple your business lead flow and have plenty of money because now you have a back end and now you have money for more leads. And since you have money for more leads, you get more back end. Right? It just, it feeds on itself to a natural ceiling. So, you know, whatever your appetite for customer acquisition is, now look at the.

Bacon wrapped around that. That's what I'm talking about. I mean it's, that is exactly the, at the heart of the matter. Like it's so simple. It is so it's so obvious, it's sitting under people's nose and they completely, most people completely miss that. And it can be revolutionary. And like you said, you can continue to do it, continue to do it. I found like as a business owner myself and a lot of the Folks that I either know or that are my clients, I see this all the time is the problem. Clients, they just wish they would go away. And a lot of times they ignore them or they just shuffle them off to customer service and they're just like, just deal with them or don't pay attention to them. People are going to be pissed off no matter what you do and, you know, just move on. Though the most vocal and the most pissed off customers are sometimes the absolute best people you need to listen to. Granted, if somebody's irate and cussing, absolutely stupid or unreasonable.

Yeah, right.

But if they're, if they're upset for a reason, talk to them, get on the phone, probe. And don't just try to placate them. That's the other thing is, and I've been guilty, don't placate them and just try to make them less, less mad. Find out deep down what can they want. Because if they're passionate enough to tell you this, they're passionate enough about the product or the solution that they need in order to tell you how to better provide it.

And what's interesting is about a third of the time they're actually a little more passionate about your product or service than you are, and they're disappointed that you weren't delivering all of the passion and service they wanted. Gosh, I loved that front end. But I'm so disappointed that you didn't offer me the whole this, that and the other. Right. It's the whole T harv Eker camera selling story. You only sold me a camera, but I was going on a cruise ship. Why didn't you sell me the batteries and the case and all the other stuff? Now I'm really mad at you that you didn't offer me those things.

Exactly.

It turns things on its head.

So recapping those, you know, basically, what's missing? Three questions. You know what's missing? What was the other, the other second one.

So what do you wish? So the I wish. I wish you offered me this. I wish it didn't have this, or I'm buying this other thing from somebody else. Right.

Okay, so how would you phrase that? I guarantee there's somebody out there right now who has customers and they're thinking, I'm going to get on the phone right now. If they called up their 10 best customers or any customers, what would you tell them to say verbatim, wait, what.

Do you wish we did better or more? What could we do better and offer more? What do you wish? And they'll say, I wish you did X.

Okay.

And it's just, it's literally that simple. Because they're the best. Customers will tell you, they go, you know what, your stuff's great. That's why I'm a good customer. But you know what? We go buy our da da da da from somebody else and we wish you just wrapped that in and we'd buy it all from you. You know, a lot of times you hear that in a business to business deal or you know, they'll say, gosh, I loved the X, Y and Z. But where you really fell short is I wish you were offering. And a lot of times it's done for you. It's software, automation, that kind of stuff. And your upsell say, oh yeah, we do automate. They'll tell you exactly what kind of automation they want. Right.

That's great. So what do you wish we did better and what do you wish we did more of? And then just take notes.

Yeah, great.

And then if, yeah, if you add those to the, to the questions that I said, which is, you know. Yeah, why did you make the decision to purchase or you know what, you know, why did you, why did you buy from us? What are we doing right? What are we doing wrong? What do you like the most? What do you like the least? How would you improve it? Would you recommend us to somebody else? And you might hear a no and if you hear a no, stop and say, well, why not? And you know, some of the, and by the way, if you're a business, a small business owner, you should be doing this. If you have a customer service team, they should be trained to do this proactively as well and not just sit back and react and wait. If they're not fielding calls, they should be making these calls. And I, I'm a believer because I've seen it, that some of the, your best salespeople can be your customer service folks because they're not trained in sales, they're not trained in persuasion, they're simply trained in how to solve problems. And you put them out there to solve somebody's problem and somebody's just happy that somebody's trying to solve their problem. They're like, man, take more of my money. It happens.

Well, they are. We used to have big ticket coaching people who would say, oh, I have this, this and this. I wish you offered that. And the, the customer service rep, we authorized a certain percentage of them to sell at a certain tier. Right. And they'd say, well, we do have that. But you told the Rep the salesman that you only had this much money to spend. So we believe that's the most valuable package for that amount of money. Oh gosh, if I knew you had that, I would have bought the whole thing. But you. Right, and it's a, it's a process. It's a sequence of trust and relationship with the customer. Now they have a better trust and relationship. And they'd say, well yeah, I want that. Okay, that's 2000, 3005 that whatever more it was 500. They would just gladly buy it.

Absolutely.

And it was fun. It's funny how that works. But a lot of times they don't have a trust with you on the first time around. But now that they know you, they'll tell you, I wish you had this. You go, well, we have that. Well, why don't you tell us about it? Well, you don't, right. And it goes back and forth. So.

But yeah, I love that. So Tom, right now are you doing client work? Do you work with clients or do you simply.

So I do one on one with clients. Most of what I do is still behind the scenes. One on one with, with companies kind of 1 million up.

Right. And I was gonna ask you that like what's your typical, what's a typical client? You typically, typically.

It's the, it's the, it's that client that you know. So Michael Masterson has the book Ready, fire, aim, right. And you spend your first, you get to your first million by selling only you sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. And then once you hit that first million and there's a magic number for everyone everywhere, it's not always a million, but once it's time to start really developing the rest of your business and creating more innovative products and doing the magical, okay, we're going to go from 1 to 10 and 10 to 20. And there's that vision and ambition. Those are the people that usually I end up working with one on one. I do a lot of kind of one off phone calls and I do a little whiteboard experience and I do boot camps, things like that. So that not all of my customers are these lifelong fully committed customers, but people who, you know, we focus on a certain thing. So I used to do the eight figure boot camp and we're revamping that and you know, those, those types of things.

So that's great. Are there any types of cut of companies or customers you typically don't work with or that's just not really appropriate for you? I mean obviously anybody in the information guru, expert Space is a really sweet spot because you've got a ton of experience there. They're any other businesses that are.

I do a lot of those. I do a lot of Main Street USA companies that need the call center thing or they need to expand their product line. The ones that I really don't spend a lot of time with just because I'm like drinking out of a fire hose for them is new, new startups where they're not super experienced. I always end up just telling them go buy this information product from somebody else and learn. Or if they're so kind of newbies and startups are not my sweet spot because we just do so many things. So if you've gone to some of the Internet marketing conferences or direct response conferences and you've been around for a couple of years and seen those things, that's probably a better fit for me.

Perfect. Perfect. Well, so if folks want more information on you, they want to find out a little bit more about Tom Collins. I know if they Google Tom Collins they're probably not going to come up with your profile first. They'll probably see a drink recipe. Exactly. How does somebody get a hold of you?

So because of the nature of the higher level, if you will, consulting that I do, I do a lot of just free trainings with the coaching that I used to do at the big company. I just kind of have this compulsion to just give away a lot of stuff that a lot of people pay for. So I was thinking on our call, probably the easiest place to go is I have a Facebook fan page. So Tom, Tom Collins, eight figure business.

Okay. So Tom Collins, the number eight.

The number. It's the number eight. And so I post all of my free trainings there. Cool. I have a number of YouTube videos. You can find them all at that Facebook page.

That's great. You know, and for anybody listening, that is got a business that is not focused enough on the back end, the reorder process or anything. I cannot recommend Tom's training and wisdom enough. I mean every time you and I get together, I learn something new and I really valuable people who've been value people like yourself who've been in the trenches and have seen what is working and not working at the highest levels of business. I mean some of these clients that you've worked with in the past are doing I imagine tens of millions of dollars. Am I right?

Yeah, consistently.

Consistently. Right. Yeah. This is not low end Internet marketing info products. Those are the. You are typically the person that they.

Seek out.

When they're going through those growing pains is, wow, we are successful. How do we really take it to the next level? Tom, I really want to thank you for coming on the show. It's been amazing. If you want more information from Tom Collins eight figure business, on the Facebook search, you can find everything else about him or right then and there. This has been one of my favorite episodes of Bacon Wrap Business we share with you.

It's fun to share stories like that.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun. And you know, if you're a business owner right now and you have questions about how am I, how could I be doing this better, how could I be doing this more effectively, or if you have a strategy that has really worked for you and you consider it to be bacon wrapped, you consider it to be something that's share worthy and you'd like to tell me about it, Maybe we feature you as a guest on the next show or you just have a giant challenge that you're looking for my help or any of my current or prior guest help, Shoot an email to me, askbradaconwrappedbusiness.com I'm more than happy to see if I can help you give you a second opinion or maybe even feature you or your strategy on the show. Until next time. Tom, thank you very much for showing up and delivering the sizzle.

Thank you. Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. It's always fun to talk to you, man.

Absolutely. Can't wait to see you again and grab a drink with you.

All right, man, talk to you later. Thanks. It.