188. Making Money By Design | Mark Curry

I'm always reflecting on how most companies in our industry focus on trying to grow revenue. Yeah. Like that's the leading key index. Whereas my thinking's always been focus on growing the profit. If you do that, regardless of what your revenue is, whether you're a million, $5 million company or $100 million, focus on, you come to terms, accept whatever Revenue that you're at. And if you focus on making good steady profit, not by accident but by design, then the revenue will follow.

This is the Wealthy Contractor Podcast brought to you by G4 Marketing. Interviews with today's top home improvement entrepreneurs about marketing, sales, money, mindset, and lifestyle. Now here's your host, Brian Kaskavalciyan. All right, everybody, Brian here. I'm here with my good friend Mark Curry, and Mark just got back from a little vacation away from, from home with his lovely wife Kathy. Mark, you were gone for a little while. How was it?

It was spectacular. Yeah, it was, uh, good to be able to walk away from the business for just shy of a month. And usually when I'm away, I'll still stay somewhat plugged in to, to the numbers and to the metrics. But this was a trip where I literally truly was off the grid in every sense of the word. So Kathy and I, we went over to Europe, visited 4 different countries, and it was just a spectacular time. It was very refreshing to, if anything, to reflect on having a business that truly is working for you instead of you working for it. So I'm now back home, of course, in the swing of things and inserting myself into—

how did it go while you were gone?

Good. Yeah, everything's fine. You know, systems, processes are in place. Yeah, I came back, there's a couple tweaks that I need to make where we maybe lost our way a little bit in some areas, but overall Everything's been rock solid.

And there was more money in the bank when you got back than when you left?

Well, I would say there's a— yes, same amount, right? In our business, it's always replenishing itself, right? So take it out and then it comes back in.

Okay, there you go. That's the thing, you take it out but it comes back in. So ideally, you know, we're in Independence Month, you know, the Fourth of July. We're recording this in June, but I think this is going to be released in a couple of weeks and will be right around 4th of July, Independence Day. And, you know, it's really all about creating a business, like you said, that works for you, that allows you to live the best version of your life, whatever that means for you. I know you and I, we like to travel with our wives. You have the— Addie and I are leaving tomorrow. We'll be gone for, like you guys, for about a month. Great team in place. There'll be more money in the bank when we get back than when we left. And I think that that's, that's why we go into business in the first place, is to create something that we can rely on that will allow us to live our lives the way that we wanna live it. So you and I are going to do a third profit workshop in September. I think more important now more than ever. What are you seeing out there in terms of business? What are you hearing from your people and the people in your circles about— is business good? Is it not good? Are things, are, you know, are things slowing down a little? What are you, what are you hearing out there?

Yeah, well, you know, that's I find always, you know, an interesting topic and that everybody wants to keep their ear to the ground to the industry. You know, after this call, I'm jumping into a podcast with a group of 12 other companies that we meet every Thursday afternoon. And typically that is the question. Everybody's trying to find out how everyone's respective business is doing. And I guess some of that is normal, right? Or how are leads? Are they drying up? What's the forecast of the economy? Is winter coming? Meaning, does everybody need to tighten their belt? If sales drop a little bit, people go into panic mode and everybody tends to look for these trends. But I'm always in situations like this, Brian, the name that comes to my mind would be Warren Buffett, right? Because when you think he's the patriarch or the leading icon of the stock market, and in the stock market, right, we all know that there's what, two types of markets. There's a bull market and then there's a bear market. So with Warren Buffett, you can research this. This is all common through the YouTube videos and stuff that he has posted. The leading question that he's always getting asked, Warren Buffett, is, you know, what's your secret sauce? How do you time the market? And he absolutely resents that question. He doesn't even understand it. He hates answering it because there's no tea leaves that he's reading, you know, whether it's going to be a bull market, a sell-off, or, you know, into a bear market. All he does, he doesn't change his, his pattern of thinking. He focuses on one thing, and that's the fundamentals, and that is he buys healthy companies. He evaluates their P&Ls. He looks at the leadership and he makes his decisions strictly on that, irregardless of what kind of market that we're in, bullish or bear. And I oftentimes reflect on that because I think even Warren Buffett recognizes and realizes there's things, economical factors that he doesn't control. So whether the economy's good, whether it's bad, you know, sales are up, sales are down. What is it that, that we can control as business owners? And that's what I always go to. That's, that's my, my home base of where my focus always is, is controlling the profit, right? Whether the revenue is up or down. You know, if there's any pearl of wisdom, you know, it's I'm always reflecting on how most companies in our industry focus on trying to grow revenue. Yeah. Like that's the leading key index. Whereas my thinking's always been focus on growing the profit. If you do that, regardless of what your revenue is, whether you're a million, $5 million company or $100 million, focus on, you come to terms, accept whatever revenue that you're at. And if you focus on making good steady profit, not by accident, but by design, then the revenue will follow. So profit comes first, revenue follows. So more directly to your question is I'm not the one that will be making those phone calls to peers, to other industry leaders saying, hey, what are you doing? What are you finding? I try to insulate myself from that the best I can.

Yeah. So it's interesting because I know, I know how you're going to answer that question, and it's— and it is a loaded question. And it's funny, so I'm going to tell— I'm going to tell you 3 things. I had to write them down just so I didn't forget. So we had our mastermind group check-in calls yesterday or the day before, and out of the 24 companies, I think 20 of them 20 of them showed up out of the 2 groups. You know, it's always the topic of conversation is what's going on, how's business, what, you know, what's going on. And it's, and it's interesting the different things that you hear. So one of the, one of the people, husband and wife team, the husband said, oh, we're hearing from the supply house how it's slim pickings out there and how people are struggling. And I said, I immediately said to him stop listening to them. You know, don't— it doesn't matter what they say. It only matters, like you said, it only matters what you do and what, what you can control. And it's easy to get caught up in the what is going on out there in things that we can't control. We can't control the economy and interest rates and all that. All we can do is adapt to it. And when you've got these tools, like understanding a P&L, like understanding chart of accounts and how profitability works, you can make adjustments. So one of the guys in the group, you know him, he's, he's been in the Profit— he was at the Profit Workshop. His business is great. He's, by the way, he's in the same market as these people and he's killing it, you know. So it's kind of funny, you know, when you hear on one side of the market is telling, oh no, it's slim pickings. The other, you know, somebody in the exact same market that sells the exact same product, by the way, is, is just booming. Business is booming. And he said, he said his profit was a little bit down, and he's at 12 points. And immediately my question was, well, what are you going to do to make up the 3 points? Where are you— do you know where you're going to get it from? And he said, yes, I know where I'm going to get it. And so this is, you know, this is one of the guys that's been to our Profit Workshop, so he knows the line of questioning And more importantly, he knows where to go and look for it.

Yeah. Amen to that. Right. So amen to that.

That's right. Yeah. You think about it. Yeah. By the way, you know, one of the other interesting things that's happened a few times over the last month or so while you were gone is some of the conversations that I've been having, we're having people talking about their gross margin and, you know, gross margin affects everything. If you don't have the right gross margin, there's— it's, it's almost impossible to make money. And so it's good to hear people starting to think in terms of profit rather than, like you said, thinking in terms of revenue. And another guy that was at LeadCon a couple weeks ago, we were talking about— he's another guy that's been to the Profit Workshop. In fact, he's coming back for a third time. By the way, he gets it, but he's coming back for a third time just because he wants to make sure that, you know, he doesn't miss out. But him and I were talking, and if there is any kind of downturn, he said, Brian, I'm not worried because I know what my model is. And so if I go from whatever, $6 million in revenue this year and last year, we go down to say $5 million, he said, my profit is going to stay at 20% or You know, he's at about 20, but 15 to 20 depending on the model, right? And he said, I'm not, I'm not worried because I know how to make adjustments.

Yes.

So that if sales do come down— so a lot of companies out there, sales start to come down, oh, it goes straight out of the bottom line.

That's correct. Yeah. So, yeah, I was going to say to you that, you know, that's the fundamental psychology of of a lot of business owners who don't really have a true handle and understanding of how they make money, meaning their profit and loss statement. And that's where they're always calling other people in the industry or peers or colleagues and finding out how they're all doing. And those conversations normally take place when the economy starts softening up or things, the leads start tightening up a little bit. And what the psychology here is that, I mean, let's just call it what it is, you know, people are looking for solace. They want to have a beer to cry in. And it's not just me, it's everybody else. So they can accept their fate of, this is why I'm not doing so well. It's okay, it's not me, it's the industry. Everybody else is in the same boat. And that's why I made the comment previously how I want to— I always try to insulate myself from that. Yeah, you know, and it's not always easy. I'm as human as the next person, you know, subjected to those types of things, uh, but I'm consciously aware that what's gonna happen after is gonna happen. I gotta control the things I can control. And when you're in, just like the testimonies that you just shared with some of the people that attended the APROFIT workshop, that's the value of it. Because once you really understand how you make money, you're not making it by accident, you're making it by design and you're in control of that and you're not pushing panic buttons. You know exactly what to do. If the revenue drops 15%, 20%, then you make the necessary adjustments you need to make to make sure you are hitting all those P&L standards, those subcategory standards, to be able to look at that P&L, troubleshoot it the right way, and make intelligent business decisions. And again, as a little commercial on the Profit Workshop, that, that's the value that this thing brings, that 2-day seminar, right? I mean, the testimonies that we've gotten have been phenomenal, right? I mean, we've seen people— I've gotten feedback from people, business owners that were for years just, just getting by, either losing money or making, you know, breaking even at best, that immediately overnight gone to making over a million dollars. You know, with these principles and practices that we've been bringing to the forefront of our industry. And, and it is quite industry— interesting in that, in all over the years, all the symposiums, seminars and stuff that, that we've all attended, you know, the predominant topics are always sales methodology, you know, leads, marketing, all good stuff. I mean, very important stuff. And it's forever changing with the ad that of all the technology, all the different types of software. So not to diminish that or undermine the importance of that, but what is missing and has been forever in our industry is the playbook for the business owner, right? Every company, well-run companies usually have playbooks for sales methodology, some type of an SOP for their call center, the scripting and all those processes. Companies have the reports with their KPIs, but at the end of the day, after everybody leaves and the owner's sitting at his desk, what meeting is he having with himself, him or herself? And that can be pretty lonely at times, right? So you've got to have— that business owner needs to have that playbook that says, all right, this is what I need to do next. And that's the practicality of what we bring to the table in that 2-day profit workshop. Right? It's not an accounting seminar. It's not about, you know, tax accountants and saving money on your taxes or bookkeeping, transactional bookkeeping. It's really, it's a business school. It's an academy of business school for owners in our industry and very specific to our industry. And I think that's a real game changer and it's been refreshing to get that type of feedback that we both have received independent of one another from past participants in the profit workshop. Yeah.

And to the listener, yes, we are pushing this very hard. I said, you know, I said it a couple of weeks ago at the event. I think this is the probably two of the most important days that I spend a year is in that workshop. And if you're, you know, if you're able to come, great. But really think about Don't look at this as just a commercial. Look at the thinking behind it. Look at the results behind it. Whether you come or you don't come to something like this, look at what Mark is saying. Think about, you know, if you want any measure of control over your life, you can't abdicate that control the responsibilities that come with that control to things that are completely out of your control, like the economy and interest rate and all of that. The one thing that you can do is you can control what you sell stuff for and how you run the money through your, your business. And if you do it the right way, you should, and you deserve to, by the way, make a boatload of money. I think that's one of the things too that people get caught up with is this idea of it's just another product. You know, we just sell windows or we just sell kitchens. There's 100 other people that sell. And I think what they miss out on is the value that they are actually providing to the marketplace. I mean, having a company that can come into your home like what you guys do at Revelaire, It's like, I can hire Revelaire Kitchens to come in, and in just a few days, you're going to completely transform my kitchen. And, you know, there aren't a lot of people out there that can do this and do it in a way that makes the client happy, you know, thrilled after this thing is done. It's very disruptive, especially with a kitchen.

Yeah, I, I'm glad you went in that direction because, um, you know, I, I make no apologies for the fact that, uh, I have a business in order to make a profit. All right, it's not a dirty word by any means, but there's a lot of ways you can make money, right? You and I could, you know, buy a Cessna 152 and then, you know, fly drugs and from—

yeah.

Cuba to Miami, maybe, right? But so it's more, more than just making money. It's really what you're talking about is a sense of purpose that kind of goes— that speaks to the topic of culture, you know. What is, what is really the purpose? You know, we talk about mission statements or value statements, you know, that companies have, but, but, you know, I like the concept of a sense of purpose. And, you know, our company day-to-day operation isn't focused on profit, profit, profit. It's focused on offering that service to the community, you know, to— as you spoke to with us, it's a kitchen, it's very disruptive. It's the most— what do you want to call it— uh, you know, disruptive type of a home improvement really to make. Not a roof, not siding or windows, but, you know, right in the heart of their home. you know, working on their kitchen, you know, to offer that service from an installation standpoint to service to communication, to create this exceptionally good experience. And look, don't get me wrong, we're a work in progress, right? We're tripping over ourselves every day and doing, you know, making mistakes and stupid things. But our focus is always there. That's, that's the end game— how to make these customers happy.

That's right.

It's through processes, systems, the communication. And, you know, that is always at the forefront. And the profit is something, of course, that happens as an end result of all that.

But yeah, and if you do all of that, and you've got to be customer-focused in this business, it's got to be all about the customer. If you do right by the customer, look, the customer, at the end of the day, the customer has a problem. Whatever that problem is. They have drafty windows, they've got a kitchen that just is ugly, it doesn't work anymore, you know, the hinges on the doors are coming off and it's just not practical anymore. But, you know, they have a whole— they have a leaky roof, whatever. We can go on and on. They have a problem. What do we do as entrepreneurs? We solve problems for profit. And so if we look at this as, you know, how do I best serve my customer, then I— and I've done a good job of that with the least amount of disruption and the best communication that we can offer and really hold their hand through the process— then we deserve to make a very good living on the other side of this. And I think too many people get caught up in the, the day-to-day of, oh my God, I need to sell this job so I can make payroll on, on Friday. And yeah, they're so focused on the wrong money. They're not focused on the right money. They're focused on the wrong money. I need money today so I can pay my bills on Friday. That does not lead to a good customer. No, no.

Now you find that if, uh, if a company's set up foundationally with the right P&L model the right pricing structure, you know, to get the right gross margins that you spoke about earlier that a lot of, uh, your clients have enjoyed, then now you're in a position where you're not panicking. Here's an example, a general example, and that is we all have a customer, whether it's in the kitchen business, baths, windows, roofing, siding, and I'm withstanding any opportunist type customer, but a customer's got a a real genuine issue or problem. Doesn't matter whether it's the customer's fault, my fault, my mother's fault. You know, it, it's an issue that needs to be resolved. If your company foundationally isn't set up the right way, profit, and you're faced with this particular issue with a customer, all you're thinking about is fighting with that customer because that's right. Uh, you're trying to protect profit that you're not in control of. And you're gonna be spending more money. But when your business is set up the right way, then servicing that customer can overshadow that profit issue, right? And that's, that's a good place to be in where I can say to a customer, look, we want to do this right and I'll spend whatever money I need to and do the job as many times as need to to get it right and make you happy. So we're always committed to that. And then even give them some type of restitution pay for any inconvenience. If you're focused on doing that, I find that everything else will fall into place naturally. You know, reviews, the whole bit, the morale of your employees, the production team, those always customer-centric is the focus. But what allows you to think that way, right? Everything I just said, nobody's going to dispute that. All your listeners, everybody listening to this podcast, going to say, well, yeah, that goes without saying. But, but it's easy, a lot easier to think those ways and live that way, culture in your business, when everything else is set up the right way. That's what affords you to be able to service that customer in the right way.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. I've had experiences late— oh God, I didn't want to go into them. I've had experiences lately of trying to get people to the house, and then once you finally get them there to do stuff, I just had landscape lighting done and, you know, the guy came in and he was great. You know, it's like, all right, yeah, I'm going to do the— you know, I got— he got me excited. I've had to call this guy, text this guy, I don't know how many times for just, oh, there's this one little thing you guys didn't do. You left this off. This didn't happen. That didn't happen. And it's like, oh my, now it's more work for me. Now it's work for me. And that's a horrible way to run a business. And the guy, you know, as soon as he's done, He wants his money, you know? Okay, I'm done. Give me my money. Wire it to me. It's like, aye yi yi. So there's, yeah, there's good money and bad money. Well, look, I know both of us, we gotta go. I hope that this little conversation, it hasn't been so little, it's been about half an hour, I think, was valuable for all of you. If you want to once and for all, you know, work out your, profit, your profit model, discover how to price jobs properly, and how to set up your P&L the right way, and, and all of this other stuff, consider joining me and Mark in September at the Profit Workshop. You can go to thewealthycontractor.com/profit and learn all about it there. Any final words before we sign off here, Mark?

Now, looking forward to seeing all the past participants again this September, and it's going to be some good stuff that we'll have laid out, you know, with this, this whole playbook, you know, a how-to manual for business owners. So you don't miss this.

Yeah, it's exciting. And I'll just say this to all of you that are listening, don't listen to the noise. Don't listen to what other people say. Don't listen to what your supply houses say. Just stay focused on serving your customer. Serve your customer, do right by them, have checklists, or so you don't forget stuff. Like in my case, if these people that I hired just had a damn checklist, I don't know if I would have, you know, be having all of these issues with them. But really focus in on the customer. Really focus in on the service that you provide to your community. It is very valuable what you do. Improving somebody's home is one of the most difficult things to do out there in terms of business. So you deserve to make money. You deserve to build a business that is, that runs independently without you having to be there, you know, like Mark's business does. And like, you know, thankfully how ours does. And I hope that for all of you. So until next time, this is Brian Kaskavalciyan. And this is The Wealthy Contractor. Podcast. Thanks for listening to today's episode of The Wealthy Contractor Podcast. Let me ask you, did it help you look at your business in a different way? Did it spark an idea or ideas that you hadn't thought of before? Do you have a list of action items that you can take and implement into your business or your life today? I really hope so. If it did, I'd like to ask you a favor. Would you leave a 5-star review of the podcast? By doing so, you'll help other contractors find the podcast more easily so that we can help them achieve more success, wealth, and freedom. And before you go, make sure you subscribe to the Wealthy Contractor Podcast so you get access to the latest episodes as soon as they're available. We're always striving to provide you with great content, so you don't want to miss what's coming up. In fact, if you haven't already, make sure you go to thewealthycontractor.com and get your free copy of my latest book, The 7 Secrets to Becoming a Wealthy Contractor. Just pay shipping and handling and I'll take care of the cost of the book. So until next time, this is Brian Kaskavalciyan.