A Biblical Perspective on Wealth: Interview with Pastor Kenny Qualls

You're listening to the Common Sense Financial Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Scribonia. Thanks for tuning in and let's get into today's topic. I'm sure you would agree that if you talk with 10 people regarding any subject, you're liable to get 10 different opinions from those people. I mean, opinions are everywhere, and I believe they are the number one reason most people live their entire lives thinking a lot of things are true when they're actually false. Now, most of these things obviously are trivial and they're not going to change the trajectory of somebody's life. But there are some things that we hold onto as truth that can influence how we live our life. Being able to discern what is true and what is an opinion is critical. In this world of 24. Seven news cycles, social media, podcasts, Google, et cetera, the threat of being misguided by opinions that are masked as truth is real and none of us are immune to it. Bad information can be passed along to us, much like a virus infecting anyone who is not filtering what they are learning. Here's the thing. If you could narrow down the most confusing and divisive topics you can think of, it would suggest that any confusion and decisiveness would have to be rooted in those opinions, right? Of course, being in the business of working with money, I know firsthand that there are no shortage of opinions and misconceptions of the truth when it comes to managing money. Financial opinions are tossed around as facts all the time with little consideration for the truth. And it's quite fascinating from my vantage point because I have counseled thousands of people over the years and I can tell you that there's a lot of bad information that people carry as the truth. But I'm just as susceptible to falling victim to other people's opinion in other areas of my life as easily as someone could be with money. I became a Christian in November of 1998 and I was operating my financial business and raising kids while learning as much as I could about my faith and being a Christian. What I learned fairly quickly is that Christians have some pretty strong opinions about a lot of things, and money is definitely on that list. And I know this because as people would find out that I was in finance, they would approach me and freely share their views and opinions about what they thought a Christian should think about money and what to do with money. This was a very interesting period in my life and it was a little bit tricky to navigate because with all of the opinions coming at me, confusion set in and I had two worlds colliding and they seemed to contradict each other at the time, not necessarily because of what the Bible taught about money. I still hadn't figured that out completely yet, but because of the opinions of those around me influencing my way of thinking at the time at least, it was all confusing. And I found myself questioning whether having wealth and being a believer of the Bible was in direct conflict. What I later came to realize that money, wealth and the Bible are not in conflict at all. In fact, when you shut out all the opinions and just study the Bible, you may very well find the opposite is true, just as I did. And what I've learned over time was that the Bible references money in different ways and in different terms over a thousand times throughout more than 2,500 verses. And as I began learning more about what these verses said, I realized that there are a lot of conversations centered on money, mindset and priorities that are often taken out of context. And here's the thing, when you consider that God himself chose Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Job, Joseph, David, Solomon, all arguably the wealthiest people in the world at the time, to carry out his plans, we realized that he didn't necessarily have an issue with their wealth and actually leaned on their influence and their resources to carry out his plans forward. So this was just one of the truths that I learned along the way that led me to realize that having wealth was not the issue, rather it really is the attitude that we carry about it. I mean, Christian or not, when something becomes all consuming in your life and has you narrowly in pursuit of it, you're going to have a problem with some of your relationships, right? I mean, setting priorities and having proper balance are required. This applies to all things, not just money and wealth. Wealth is an easy target, but this can be said about anything that takes priority in your life. If you have a significant other and you spend all your time with friends or focus solely on your kids or your career or sports, then there's going to be a problem in that relationship. And if you understand the Christian faith at all, you know that it really is all about a relationship with God. Now if you're not familiar with the Bible, I ask you just to hang in there. This is an often asked about topic that needs some airing out. And I think there's a lot to take away from today's conversation, regardless of your background. So there are some personal truths that are the foundation for why I believe what I believe. And I thought it would be helpful just to share with you as we dig into this topic. First of all, if you don't know, the Bible is a collection of 66 books that's written over by 40 different authors, written in three different languages on three different continents over 1600 years. Now, to me, that's pretty amazing considering the Bible was assembled back in the 4th century and around 325 A.D. another point I think helps keep all of us as believers in check is one simple fact, and that is that Jesus is the only person that has walked the earth, died, and came back to life. As crazy as this is, to wrap our mind around that in and of itself is enough of a reason for me to pay attention to whatever he has to say. So with that, today's podcast is going to be a little bit different. I had the opportunity to sit down with Pastor Kenny Qualls recently and had a real conversation about wealth and the Bible. And if you've never heard Kenny speak, one thing I really appreciate about him is that he is really grounded in the Bible. He really doesn't pull punches and it's why I thought of him when I was putting this together. And I'm really looking forward to sharing this conversation with you. Kenny is from a rural part of Southern Missouri where he began his ministry 30 years ago as Senior Pastor of Spring Hill Baptist Church in Springfield, Missouri. He served as President and Associate Executive Director for the Missouri Baptist Convention, Executive Committee Member for the Southern Baptist Convention, President of the National Large Church Roundtable, and Ambassador to Missouri for the North American Mission Board. He's heavily involved in global missions. He's a mentor to young pastors and is a well respected leader within our community here in the St. Louis area. For the last 15 years he served as the Senior Pastor of First Baptist Church of Arnold, where my family has attended now for the last 20 years. So I'm really looking forward to jumping into this conversation. Here's the interview. Hey Kenny, how you doing?

I'm doing great, Brian. So great to be with you today.

Hey, I really, really appreciate you joining us and just like to be the first to welcome you to the Common Sense Financial podcast.

Well, thank you. It's great to be with you and all your listeners. I'm really looking forward to our time together today.

It's going to be awesome. You know, we've known each other for a pretty long time and we never collaborated like this with anything, so it's kind of surprising. But I'm glad we're finally doing it.

Yeah, same on my end. When I had that thought about us never collaborating before, I thought, wow, so this is going to be a good time. I'm grateful for the opportunity.

Yeah, looking forward to it. Before we jump in, if you don't mind, maybe just share your story and tell us a little bit about how you became a pastor.

Yeah, sure. You know, we've all got a story. I was born and raised in the Ozarks, and really kind of an interesting path as a pastor. I was not raised in church, never owned a Bible. I remember distinctly as a kid always believing there was a God. It's kind of funny, but when I saw lightning bugs, I mean, I thought, come on, there's got to be a God. By the time I was a freshman in college, though, I started having this emptiness in my life about, you know, what's all this about? What really is life heading, where's it going? And that's when I heard the good news of Jesus and what he did on the cross and his death and his resurrection. As a freshman in college, I became a follower of Christ. You know, it really, really changed my life. And I was a zookeeper for 10 years. And my educational background was in zoology and wildlife conservation. And then around the age of 28, I really had a sense of God calling me into the ministry. And that can sound a little funny sometimes, but I describe it like this really intense tug on my heart. It was inescapable. I just knew this is what God wanted me to do. It even moved beyond having a career, but just really sensing a call from God. So, yeah, once I placed my faith in Christ and just been trying to grow as a believer ever since then. And now went back to school, did some seminary, was in a school of theology and some different places. And now 30 years in the ministry, time flies, but very grateful to be serving the role of a pastor.

Yeah, well, we're thankful that you are doing that because you've been a blessing to our family. I know. And, you know, your background kind of shows us that, you know, God uses all of us in different ways, and it's all about his timing. Our background really doesn't matter, does it?

Yeah. You know, and it's so wild. I always share with people that even some of the things we may be going through today, it's amazing how a lot of times in hindsight, you'll see those mattered. It was preparing me. Even the independent research I was doing as a zookeeper and some of the animals we had and genetics and all those sort of things, it really taught me kind of the art of independent study. And now as a pastor, I do that all the time. So it's neat how you can look back. I gave zoo tours then and now I speak publicly. So my first public speaking was giving tours at a zoo. So who knows?

That's awesome. Preparing you one way or the other, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, you know, when it comes to money, and again, just appreciate your insight on all this stuff, because I know from my standpoint, and maybe even from your standpoint, there's so much confusion and misinformation about money in general, but when you add the Bible into it, it really just complicates things from how people perceive things. And so what I have found is that, you know, the relationship with money itself is more of a scarcity mindset. When people don't have it, they're trying to figure out how to get it right. And that could be out of survival or greed or whatever, but they're trying to figure out how to get it, and when they have it, they're worried about losing it. And so it's just this weird relationship. There's no contentment or joy, really. And just having money, there may be some comforts, but you're always worried one way or the other. Right. So I'd really be interested to know what your take is on what the Bible actually says and how God actually views money. Could you elaborate on that?

Yeah. You know, thank you for the opportunity to do that. You know, it really comes down to even a foundational core worldview of if A, I believe there is a God, and if B, I believe that God is for me, loves me, wants to speak into my life, has a plan for me, and then C, if I believe, which I do, that the Bible reveals God's plan for me. It was obvious that something as important as this, I mean, the way God created our world and created us is how we support our families, finance all that we do, wrapped around money. So I would want to know his plan and, you know, what does he have to say about his plan is best? And it really is. You're right. It's probably the number one topic. It's not number one. It's way up there that there is a lot of confusion about. If we just think of the time we spend making money, spending money, worrying about money, sadly, even some marriages fighting about money, to think that God would not want to speak into that just isn't even logical. Doesn't make sense. I love to share some of the facts about the Bible because this kind of opens up eyes for people. The word believe is in the Bible 285 times. Prayer is in the Bible 387 times and love 799 times. So everyone would think, of course, the Bible talks about faith and prayer and love, give or gift is in the Bible 2,290 times. Gift and giving is in the Bible more twice almost than faith, love and prayer combined. That in and of itself lets us know that, okay, God's obviously got something to say about this. Then you go down to Jesus himself. If I had a book that said the direct teachings of Jesus, and it was a hundred page book and I was going to give it to you or someone else, and I said, wait a minute, before I give it to you, let me tear out 15 pages. You're probably wondering if this is the direct teachings of Jesus while We're on those 15 pages. I'm not kidding. 15% of the direct teachings of Jesus dealt with money and possessions. Sixteen of his 38 parables deal with money and possessions. So God has something to say about this very important subject in our life. And again, he's for us, he loves us, he has a plan for us. And it really is important to God and therefore it's got to be important to us.

Yeah. And I think a lot of times, at least, again, I'm just speaking from my experiences and my perception of things and how I've, I have viewed things and interacted with people. Out of that 15% that you're talking about there, I think a lot of Christians have the mindset that a lot of it is negative and looking down on money. And so they kind of have this paradigm that having wealth is evil because if you have a lot of wealth and you're not practicing true faith. Right. So we're supposed to rely on God every day with everything. And while that is foundationally true. Right. I think that's, there's some misinterpretation there on how that really should be viewed. Right. So I mean, what's your take on that?

Yeah, it's interesting that how people have that view that money is evil, that wealth is evil. Of course. And I know you, I'm sure, have shared this. You look at some of the people in the Bible that God used in a great way. Some of them, yes, were the poor widow who only had two mites and gave it all. But some of them was Solomon and Abraham, people of wealth. So to have that view very lovingly, that's not truly biblical. That's not what the Bible teaches at all. Basically, God's plan for our finances is really pretty Straightforward. It comes with the title. It starts, or I would say with knowing him. You know, to think that God's revealed Himself to us and he wants us to know him and worship him and glorify him through ever, through a relationship with Christ. It's that God owns everything. Psalm 24:1 tells us that the earth is the Lord's and everything in it. And so if God owns everything, that really, Brian, takes a lot of stress off of us as people of saying, what do I have to do with all? No, we can follow his plan. We manage what is God's, we use what is his according to his plan. Then we believe that plan is in the Bible. And God's plan is simply that we're to work hard and do our best. We're to give to him first in an act of worship to support his work. We're to bless other people and we're to provide for our family, not only now, but for the future. And even in providing that, the Bible says in First Timothy 5, 8, that if we don't provide for our own family, we've denied the faith, which is very, very strong. And I mean, there's so much there. The Bible talks about having a budget, the Bible talks about investing, the Bible talks about savings, the Bible talks about a financial plan. All those things are totally biblical. So they come from not. This is a bad thing you shouldn't do. This is something that it's okay to have wealth, but wealth should not have you. Wealth should not be the idol or the priority of your life. But using it according to God's plan to bless other people, to provide for our families is a good thing.

Yeah. So the idea of being more spiritual. Right. To be in poverty is not congruent with the Bible. Having wealth is really okay.

One of the dangers of the. One of the dangers and temptations of having wealth is a person can see themselves as being self sufficient, being greedy and being proud. The exact same temptations can come in poverty. Some people use their poverty as a sign of spirituality or their poverty as a sign of being closer to God and can actually use that as a sense of pride. Some people can look at money and be very greedy and wanting to hang on to what they've got. Someone in poverty can have just as much greed and always thinking about trying to get what they don't have. So that argument that you're more spiritual if you don't have it, it's really about a person's heart, not how much money's in the bank. And either poverty or riches can both lead to pride in that or it can be used in a God honoring way.

That's a great point. Appreciate that perspective. One of the other things too that I've learned, again just in Bible studies and reading books and hearing people talk, et cetera, that a lot of times the focus when we're applying the Bible to money and financial topics, it's often related to being in debt, right? Like how being in debt is not good or the need for budgets. It goes back to that scarcity mindset, right? Trying to work out the cash flow to make sure that it's pension pennies at the end of the month. But really the truth of the matter is is that there's a lot more to it than that, right? There is some guidance there for people that actually have resources and don't have an issue with. Maybe it kind of leads off into materialism and things of that nature. But the idea of having to just deal with debt just to get it paid off, or budgets just to get by, there's more to that than that. Right? So what's some of the foundational truths that you think we should know and take away from what the Bible has to say?

Well, you're exactly right because that's almost saying like something and important as a topic as money and possessions and stuff, that God only wants to speak into half of that to have the view of scarcity, it's only budgeting debts and then that's it. He speaks from end to end, including again wealth. Probably that number one verse you know is First Timothy 6:10, which says the love of money is the root of all evils. And that's where a lot of that either feeds that money's evil or feeds the fact of scarcity is somehow more spiritual. You know, that Bible does not say money is evil. It says the love of money is the root of all evil. A couple key words, that word root. And we understand what a root is from the standpoint of it's under the ground, it's unseen, it can be, if you're pulling a weed, it can make the thing that's hard to get rid of. And that's how the Bible's warning us that not money. But if you love it, if it becomes what your id, this is my identity as a person who's wrapped up in this. And the word love. There is the word philo for friend. It's insinuating that you literally can make a money. Your friend, more than God is your friend. And why the Bible I think speaks so Highly of that. And this goes back to why people have such sometimes a negative view is because really the very core evil is pride coveting. You go all the way back. What I believe in the Bible of Adam and Eve wanting what you can't have. And the ultimate evil is wrapped up in that. So there's a story in the Bible of a rich young ruler which I think probably addresses. I mean, this guy was living the American. It's in Matthew, chapter nine. He was living the American dream. He was young, power had possession, successful religious. And the Bible says extremely rich. And Jesus looked into his heart and told him to give away everything you have and give it to the poor. And some people take that out of context, Brian, and they'll say, well, see, that shows right there that you should give everything away you have. And somehow if you wear burlap and eat birdseed, you're more spiritual than someone else. But Jesus knew his heart. He knew that his idol was his wealth. He was trusting in his wealth. And it could have been anything. It could have been family, could have been hobby, could have been whatever. But in his unique situation, it was his wealth. And he walked away rejecting Jesus because he was unwilling to get rid of his wealth. So I think the foundational things about wealth is that money is not evil. It's okay to have wealth, but wealth should not have us. That's the key. It shouldn't be our idol. We should work hard, do our best, support God, give to God in worship for his work, bless other people, and we should provide for our families. But the key is that we should be content if we don't have wealth. We should work hard, plan for the future. And if God chooses to bless us with wealth, great. If he doesn't, then we should be content in that. So it's okay to have wealth, but it's not okay to use wealth only for ourselves. Greedy more. And I would say from my perspective too, as a pastor, the most important thing is to know what true wealth really is. And the Bible explains true wealth in the book of Ephesians as the riches of Christ. Spiritual wealth of having joy and peace and purpose in your life is the greatest rich of all. And so the Bible even says in Proverbs 11:4 that riches are worthless on a day of wrath. And so it's all about the heart. It's all about the perspective. It's not about the issue of wealth. It's about the heart and how we would use that.

Yeah. So one of the scriptures that always comes to my mind and you and I have talked about this before is Matthew 25. And. And you even helped me understand that that really has more to do with the future and what's coming, not just in the present. But I've always looked at it as a great breakdown of kind of how we should be looking at finances with the preparation, the management, and the giving. Maybe share a little bit about that for us, if you don't mind.

Yeah, absolutely. That Matthew 25. Jesus is getting ready to go to the cross, and it's the Olivet discourse. He gives this. He gives this great lesson. He speaks in parables. And of course, all a parable is, is an everyday, common earthly story that teaches us spiritual truth. And I do believe the main teaching in that verse is about the future and God's future for us and the future end times and those things. But as all throughout Scripture, the truth it teaches speaks to truth in everyday life, not taking it all out of context. And those parables do. The three parables, the first one really talks about these young bridesmaids who were not ready for the bridegroom to come, and they didn't have oil in their lamps. And the whole teaching there is about preparedness and being ready. And you can put that in all areas of life, family, including finances, that we should recognize what are our priorities, and we should make preparations in advance for those priorities. The second one parable is about the unprofitable servant. And it's a great. Again, I believe it's talking about preparedness. The first parable is about preparedness. This one's more about faithfulness. But it's a picture of the Master. He owns everything, and he gives what is his to these servants. He gives one a talent is about 20 years worth of wages. He gives five talents to one individual, three to another, and one to the other. The one with the five talents, the three talents are faithful. There's even risk involved. But they take what God's entrusted to them and try to do their best with it for him. Not for themselves, ultimately, but for him and his benefit. It's the masters. The one hit it in the ground, hid his talent, didn't do anything with it. And Jesus really condemned him and called it evil and said, you should have at least put it in a bank for me. So there's, I think, some great lessons there about investing that. Again, the Master entrusts to us what is his. He expects us to use what he's given to us in the wisest way possible. The ultimate goal in that shouldn't be Greed, it should be, how can I bless others, how can I provide for my family, how can I provide for the future, etc. It's just there's an urgency. They immediately, they didn't wait. They immediately took what God gave them, the way it's worded there, and put it to work. They just didn't sit on it, hide it, and do nothing with it. And whatever we do, we should be faithful for the kingdom, and that includes our finances. It's just about being prepared and being faithful. And then the last parable is Jesus said, as you've done unto the least of these, you've done unto me. And he talks about meeting the needs of the sick, meeting the needs of the hungry, the hurting, etc. Again, the main teaching is that he's saying, if you know God, these things don't make you right with God. But if you're right with God, you'll have these traits in your life of caring for other people, wanting to be generous. It's just a great, great lesson about generosity, about how God's people give, how we want to give. We know Jesus said in Acts 20:35, it is more blessed to give than to receive. Hey, I love receiving. If you want to give me something, I'll take it. You know, who wouldn't? But there's greater joy and blessing in giving. And so, yeah, those. That's just one example of one chapter. Be ready, be faithful with what you have, and be generous. You just can't escape from COVID to cover. The Bible, How God Loves Us speaks into all areas of life, including the area of possessions and finances and generosity.

Yeah, I think one of the things that I teach a lot and things that I see is that, you know, you got to go through this unless you're just given a silver spoon. When you're young, you know, when you're, when you're in your 20s and early 30s, you're trying to survive, right? And then you're raising kids and then you hit your 40s and you're, you're kind of, you're stabilized, right. And then you kind of move into your 50s and 60s and hopefully you've done well for yourself and have, have, have some, accumulated some wealth for yourself. But then there becomes beyond just, you know, trying to take care of yourself, it's taking care of those around you. I mean, the theme should be trying to do that at all times, all the time. But when you're moving from survival to more independence financially, and then it goes into that generational aspect and that Legacy planning. And so, you know, there's a. There's a huge, I think, a lot of responsibility that comes out of Matthew 25 that I've always taken to heart that, you know, we do have a responsibility to carry forward our wisdom. Right. Carry forward our wealth. And so given to the church, given to the communities, given to the poor, instilling foundational things with our kids and then creating and perpetuating wealth for the future. Any type of, like I said, thumbprint we can leave on the future, I think is what we're supposed to do. So I don't know about you, but. And I think about this a lot of times. You know, who's a good example? I always. I don't like trying to reinvent the wheel. If there's an example out there that I can take from somebody else, maybe I don't want to do everything exactly how they've done it. Right. But maybe there's some lessons to be learned, you know, either. Either from the Bible or in real life, people you've known or people that we see from afar. I mean, is there anybody you can think of or any examples that you think of that have. That have kind of, at least on the. From what we can see. Right. Have done things, done things right. And maybe something that we should look at as a respectful thing, not looking down on their wealth or having too much.

Yeah. You know, Jesus taught us in Matthew 16, if you want to gain your life, you lose it. And people who have wealth, and it even says if you could, the wealthiest person would be, if you own the whole world. And the Bible says, what profit would it gain you if you had all the. If you own the entire world, everything in the world, but you forfeit your soul. So the spiritual side of it, of giving your life away in true joy. I mean, I have some dear friends of mine. One owns the second largest window washing company in the world. And I have another friend of mine who just went home to heaven here recently. He was in the chemical business. And God had, you know, the Bible doesn't promise us as believers today health, wealth or success. He promises us spiritual blessings and we lay our treasures up in heaven. But it's also true that God does entrust some people with health, wealth and success. And those two individuals. In my own personal life, you know, Brian, I have seen. Never making a big splash. Look at me. I have seen how they use their wealth to change lives, to change communities, to bless people, to build schools in areas where there's no education and all their heart behind it all was ultimately for God's glory. To point people to Jesus, you can go back in history. I love the story of Henry Crowell, who Quaker Oats. Who hasn't had a bowl of oats? You know how he, as a child he had tuberculosis and the preaching of the great D.L. moody. He came to know Christ as his savior and he basically lived his life giving 60 to 70% of what he owned away to help further God's work, to help bless communities, to help others. There's modern day examples. Probably two of the most well known I would say today is Chick Fil a and the Cathy family. As Truett Cathy, he wrote a book called the Generosity Factor. Discover the joy of giving away your time, your talents and your treasure. I mean, he put down on paper the importance of how you can have wealth, but you can really use it to make a difference in other people's lives and how there's joy in that Hobby lobby. David Green, he wrote another book called Giving it All Away. And again, these are people that wealth is not evil. They had wealth in their life. They follow God's plan in their life of worshiping God through it, blessing others, providing for their family, caring for their communities. And I'm like you, examples like that really just bless, bless me too.

Yeah, you kind of look at it like, you know, if there wasn't any wealth, it's not that God can't do all things right, but if there wasn't any wealth, not much would get done at the end of the day because of the fact that, you know, taking care of the poor, building schools, to your point, just doing different things with the resources that we have. It's just good to see that there are examples of good Christian, solid Christian people that are willing to take their wealth and give it away like you said. And so we're not meant to be greedy and hoarding it for ourselves. Because at the end of the day, what, what point does that really have? If we have stacks of hundred dollar bills all around us, at what point is it just hoarding?

You know, if there wasn't people of wealth and there wasn't wealth, then God wouldn't speak into it. God gives direct instructions to the wealthy. I think probably the number one verse is 1st Timothy 6, 17 and 18 that says, Command those who are rich in this present world to not be arrogant nor put hope in wealth which is so uncertain, but put their hope in God who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to Be generous and willing to share. So just in that one verse, it tells those who have wealth is, first of all, don't be arrogant. Work hard. Know you've worked hard. Do your best, but realize. In Deuteronomy 8:18, it says, Remember the Lord your God, he gives you the ability to. To produce wealth. If we didn't have gravity and oxygen and sunshine and all this other thing, no one would produce wealth. Don't put your hope in wealth. There's got to be hope beyond that in the Lord. Be rich in good deeds and be generous and willing to share. So that one verse again, if there was not people that had wealth. And in Timothy, he's speaking into the church, these are people who say, yeah, Jesus is my Savior. I'm following the Lord. He gave very specific instructions for that to the wealthy, just as he gives instructions to those who are poor. The same way.

Yeah, I think there's a lot to take away from the conversation, for sure. I know this can be kind of a touchy subject for some and can be tricky to try to navigate, but that's what I love about you, is just you don't pull punches. You're just talking about what the Bible says. At the end of the day, it's not necessarily about our opinion. It's about what God has to say. And I. I really appreciate that about you and I appreciate you taking time to provide some great insight into all of this. I mean, this really could be an entire series if we are truthful about it. So we're just scratching the surface on it. But I think we did hit the key points of everything, and hopefully the listeners take some good points away from that. So just with time, and I know you're busy and we don't want to keep people too long, I just want to say thank you again. Really appreciate you and what you do for the church, what you've done here. Just taking time with the podcast. I just really appreciate you and your family. So thank you.

You know, I appreciate it. And again, to all your listeners, thank you. It's been fun through this means of communication to hang out with each other for a while. You know, to me, when it comes to wealth and riches and possessions is that ultimately it's about a generous God to us and being generous people like God. And ultimately, generosity is love, because it says, for God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son. And yeah, I'm a lifelong learner. Like everyone else, I've enjoyed this. It's been good for me to review and look at this and appreciate you and your family a lot, Brian, and what you're doing for your customers and your heart behind how you care for those people you work with. And so just, it's been fun to hang out together.

All right, cool. Hey, thanks again, Kenny.

Thank you.