Shift Your Focus: Self-Leadership and Fulfillment | Brian Walch

Sam. Foreign welcome back to another episode of the Connected Mindset Live. I'm your host, Greg Tomczyk. Extremely excited that you decided to join us this morning. Another exceptional episode. One of the things I came across recently in my own business is a quote from one of my mentors. He recited it from somebody else, but he said that you told yourself that you'd be happy at this point in time, but you're telling me that you're not satisfied and you continue to want to achieve these big goals or level up in your career. And it really brought me back down to earth on, you know, I am in a, in a good state. Obviously, we want to continue to push forward and we're going to talk a lot about that today. I think, you know, sometimes throughout our careers we feel stuck. We have to really get to the root cause of what that stuckness looks like that can help push us to the next level. And a lot of that goes back to focus. We brought Mr. Brian Walch on the show this morning with us. Brian, how's your morning going?

Excellent. Perfect. Excited to be here.

Great to have you here, Brian. So how we like to start the show is, Brian, what mission are you on and what are you hoping that each person listening in today walks away with?

Well, thanks, Craig. Yeah, excited to be here. Like I said, and just to give you context, I'm based in Anchorage, Alaska. We're four hours ahead of you. So I've had my morning coffee and we're ready to go. My background, I started out in IT consulting and so I started out with a technical background, moved was with the same company, moved around, did a lot of different things, ended up doing a lot of work in recruiting and HR and have worked with a lot of people at various stages of their career. And what I came away with was how beneficial it is to enjoy work. So I'd say like my mission or my vision is really that people enjoy work. That, you know, when people are really fulfilled, they leave work, they go home, they have more energy, more stamina to give to their friends and their family and work, you know, when it can be fulfilling and rewarding and the source of encouragement, I think that we actually will benefit emotionally and socially and physically. And so like, that's the vision, the ideal of everybody enjoys their work so they can have fulfilling lives and encouraging relationships. And I don't think, like all of us, I don't think that's going to happen or we're going to move radically toward that with company initiatives or compensation packages or a top down approach. It has to happen individually and has to happen for us. Kind of like you, you said in your intro of like, we have to take responsibility for that. But what I decided is who has the biggest impact on that, who can help the broadest number of people? And that, to me, is managers. I experienced it in my own life of having the managers I had and then being a manager. Managers have the biggest impact in how we feel about work. And so my mission is really to empower managers, first of all, for them to feel fulfilled and content and excited about their relationship so that they can help their employees feel the same way. And I think if people. If people today walked away with, like, a greater sense of agency and a desire to define fulfillment, that'd be success for this podcast, that we can take responsibility for our relationship with work. Our relationship work with is dynamic, and when we work to improve it, it improves our lives.

It absolutely does. Yeah, it's extremely powerful. Something we haven't really talked about on the show. We've had leadership experts, so they just want to talk about, you know, how people can better lead both themselves and others. But you're right, companies, whether we're leading the company or companies that we're working for, that manager level, you know, is really responsible for energy management of the whole company. You got to think about the initiatives that are coming to them and then helping the team execute it. And I think a lot of companies, you know, don't have energy management in their culture. It's the hustle culture of just make sure you grind, grind, grind until it gets done. And then. And then you. You go home or you go to, you know, dinner with your friends, and you're. You're just kind of conked out. You don't want to think anymore, and it's hard to build relationships in that state. So I definitely, I definitely feel that because I've been there throughout my career, and I think there's a lot to unpack there of, you know, helping people define, you know, what does good work look like and fulfillment look like, but what does the environment that's conducive to that good work look like? And I think we have hard times figuring that piece of it out. Companies obviously try to create it. They're not avoiding it necessarily, but I think they still are having a hard time. Have you seen anything from an execution culture standpoint that's really stuck out and helped you to, you know, help people establish that energy management, both for the manager themselves, but also to be able to span that to their Team.

Yeah, well, like you said, companies are not, it's not for lack of trying. They have a very high interest in trying to improve culture, make, make the culture good, make the environment conducive to, for people to enjoy work. But it kind of creates a bit of a systemic problem because it is always external motivation. You know, whether it's the salary increases or the title or the benefits or the, you know, the flexibility, whatever, it's, it's this external motivation. And so the, the ultimate power comes from, you know, internal. When we, when we have intrinsic motivation that is driving us forward because that can't be, that can't be taken away or, you know, just kind of like a return to work mandate or something like that. You know, where we're like, oh, we felt really good about this because we had flexibility and now we don't feel like we have any control. So, you know, that's the. I think all the external things that companies do are really good. But the thing that I think improves culture and again, why I focus on managers is because, is that managers have the, they control the culture. And so if they're, if they're understanding the impact they have in their own work, then they're helping to empower others to think about what they want. And you know, I think like all of us, we just want to be valued for who we are. And so that, that would be the, you know, the mentality that I think can really impact change.

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I think it. You, you hit on an interesting point that I haven't heard talked about before. And, But I've always looked at a company as an organism. It's a, you know, living, breathing. You have to cultivate it. You have to make sure everybody is, is in a healthy mental state and is. Knows the vision of where they want to grow to. And I think about like a plan or, you know, human being and, you know, they need to, you know, you can do everything from the outside to try to band aid things, but if you don't do that internal work to really, you know, get inside, have the hard conversations with yourself. But also in the companies, I think that's what creates that internal kind of. It's not resentment, but it's friction throughout the model because somebody feels like they're not being paid enough. They, they want to be at home and the company wants them to be in the office. There's so many of those situations that just happen in companies where the friction just gets, you know, faster and faster and, and more heated up and Then somebody just quits or it gets fired or. And it just. It's a revolving loop of, you know, oh, oh, we're going to get a new person. How much friction can we hold away? So it's always that nervous system of the company holding on and say this to this person because that might create more friction. So it's kind of everybody, in my opinion, and what I see in companies a lot of times is they're kind of holding their tongue or they're siloing to try to reduce friction. And I think that's really no way, no way to operate. And like you said, the manager, the person overseeing execution or the person that's guiding some of those visions to execute is such a key piece to kind of bring the. Bring the pieces together and be cohesive as a culture. But I think a lot of people think, think and put that on the, you know, the CEO or the person that's casting the vision, and they don't really focus enough on who's actually going to execute that because that's where the friction probably starts. So.

Yeah, well. And you're exactly right. When it's like, things kind of build and then all of a sudden somebody pops and, you know, like all of us, I've learned from mistakes I've made and things I've done. And one of the things that happens as you move up in your career, it becomes easier to kind of keep looking at external factors. You know, you've gone through college or whatever you did to kind of start your career, and nobody was really telling you, like, this is what you should do. You kind of had to figure it out. You were motivated, you were inspired, you liked it. But then you start falling into the. Again, not to. It's not casted as an evil system, but you fall into the system of like, oh, I need a promotion. I need this thing. And it becomes more and more external things you're chasing. And I, I did this once in my career. I just, you know, it was like all of a sudden things weren't working for me, and I'm like, I need out of this role. And it, you know, it caused disruption. It wasn't great for my career. It wasn't great for the. The people around me. But it's because I didn't really have a clear vision of what I was trying to do and, and what I want to do. I hadn't nurtured that along the way. I just kind of got sucked into the what's next? Well, if I don't know what's next. I don't know that I want to do this. And never asking the question, well, what, what do I want? What do I want to move forward on? And why is that important?

Yeah, and I think one of the things that gets missed a lot of times that I've seen in bigger and medium sized companies is managers sometimes get left out of the collaborative sessions of, you know, the vision and the how they're going to execute. And then it just gets put on their plate to some extent, you know, in the traditional structure. And I think, and this may be something that you provide and have, you know, experience, but there should be some type of group exercise, visioning exercise, with managers, with people executing, with leadership, so that everybody understands the why behind the purpose behind why they're doing certain things. And I think sometimes in big bureaucracies, that why and the purpose that people can link their personal vision and purpose to gets lost throughout that translation. And, you know, I like to see everybody at every level of the organization, whether it's my team or the people I work with, saying, this is what I want as a person. I want to, you know, be a great salesperson in this technology and the company, supporting that and linking their vision to some of those goals because they see profitability and revenue in it. And then the people get so much more fired up. I saw that with baseball when, when we had a similar vision and they knew where I wanted to get to as a pitcher, how I wanted to improve that season, and they put me in situations to do that. It made my, you know, my soul, my. My heart, everything within me was so into it that it was like almost destined for some type of positive outcome. And I think companies sometimes lose that in their DNA, which is just, it's kind of a spiral to, you know, purposeless purposelessness, like where the company is like, all right, we're just here to make money. And yeah, as long as we hit the revenue goals, you know, we're good to go. But that has a lot of turnover. So.

Yeah, or, or it creates a certain feeling of inauthenticity from the employees. You know, like, what happens a lot of times in companies is they say, here are company values. Let's, let's hear the stories and how you're living these out as opposed to what are your stories, what's going on? And then kind of like you were saying, extracting the values and the link between what they're doing and what's important to the employees and the managers and what the company's trying to Achieve. And one of the things that I do, like if you looked at the methodology that I use, it's empower managers to lead themselves, lead their teams, lead their organizations. And through each of those steps, we actually advocate for doing some strategy and some visioning and we call it strategic purpose. And so at the personal level, creating kind of like a personal dashboard of mission, vision, those kinds of things. At the team level, doing that at the team level, whether it's a team charter or team vision. And then of course at the company level, strategic plan. But you're doing that routinely. So it's kind of like, you know, managers zoom in on their work. They're very detailed, taking that time to kind of zoom out and say what's important here? How do we all fit together? And kind of realigning that. So you're exactly right. It's like coming just from the top down, I don't think creates the energy that, that they hope, the company hopes. And, and then people don't feel like they can really connect to it as, as strongly.

Yeah, I mean, that, that alignment is just so critical. I mean, it's, I've seen it in good ways and bad ways and the, when it's, when it's misaligned, you can tell when it's aligned, you can also tell. And it's just sometimes there's small distinctions, but you, you tell on the misaligned side, there's just a lot of friction and, and people holding their tongue, which over time creates the guesswork and all the things that people don't want to see. And they don't do it intentionally. It just happens over time, which is scary. But how do you get folks started? So for the people listening in, they're either in that manager role, they're overseeing folks who they want to empower from that level, or they're just trying to do the personal work to get themselves to be in that position where they can start, you know, leading people, guiding people, being somebody that's looked upon to execute. Where do you, where do you recommend that folks kind of start that journey and get, get their, you know, strategic plan, strategic purpose kind of more clear than it is today?

Yeah, the, the, I mean, when working with managers, I call it manager motivation. It's, it's what, what drives you. So like I said, kind of trying to move that recognize and move from just extrinsic rewards or extrinsic factors to intrinsic. And that takes a little bit of self analysis. What do you want? And then, you know, one exercise kind of A simple one is just thinking what is the next step you want to take? What do you want? And then asking yourself why? And asking yourself why? What's important about that? Until you get to because it makes me happy or because it makes me feel good. You know, like, say I want to raise. And it's like, well, you have to ask yourself that question multiple times until you get to what's important about that raise? What does it enable? And, and sometimes people might find they can't get to the, you know, because it makes me happy. And that, that would be a clue then that maybe that's not the direction you need to go, but that, that kind of reflection, that kind of exercise will help bring to light some of your values, some of your, some of the things that are important to you as, as a person. And you know that a, it'll help you pick what, what step to take to move forward. And it's something that's intrinsically motivating, but it'll also start the process of really codifying and demonstrating to yourself where do you want to go? What's important to you in your life? And you know, we, we go up and down in terms of how we feel about work, how we feel about, about life, and having something like that documented. And it can be a personal vision statement, a personal strategic plan, a personal dashboard starts, providing you kind of an anchor. And so that's where I recommend people start because it's, it's going to help them as they continue to move forward. And it's, it's, it's an iterative process. Like you kind of do it, you take some steps, you discover a little bit more, you, you update that. So that'd be where I'd say people start. You start, start with yourself. And that's kind of the shift focus is, you know, before you ask what, what do I want to do or what do I want my career? You got to ask yourself, what, what do I want?

Yeah, that's so critical. I think a lot of people start with what type of work do I want to do to make this type of money, which is going to make me this person, right? This person that has a lot of values and standards and you know, has nice clothes or whatever the, whatever the means is for them. But I think a lot about, you know, means goals and end goals. And you hit a nail on the head of asking why a few more times than people are already asking. Most of the time it's, I want that new job because it's a hundred thousand dollar Raise. Well, why do you want that extra $100,000? And like, well, I want to, you know, buy a car. Why do you want to buy the car? And it gets people out of the materialistic mindset and really gets them deep into. This is something that makes me feel more safe and comfortable, which makes me happier and more fulfilled. And once you get there, then it really pulls you forward as opposed to pushing you because it's just about getting that, you know, getting that next material thing. And a lot of people stop at that first question and I think it's just so, so powerful, so beneficial for anybody in the organization to go through it where somebody is that I think about myself as that annoying little kid that's like, well, why mom? Why dad? Like why, why, why? Until they got to an answer that made sense to me and that I could attach to. And I think people need to bring that, that little kid back and just continue to ask themselves why or have somebody, you know, guide them through that exercise like you do. Because the output is just so powerful from the internal state you're in. But how you bring that to the outside world and are able to spread that purpose and that end, that end goal of happiness, fulfillment, you know, success, whatever that means to you, to other people. And then they see it and it's kind of contagious from what I've seen.

Yeah, yeah. And you go through that exercise and, and you understand what's important and then you kind of walk back up the chain and you realize there's a lot of different ways you might achieve something that's meaningful to you. And it didn't, it wasn't just the one option. And, and that does, it creates a sense of, of power. Because you realize I got a lot of ways that I can succeed in life.

Absolutely. I think that's, that that's the first place to start. A lot of people skip that step because it's hard. It's hard work. It's not like a, you know, one day exercise. It's something you got to kind of ruminate on. And I think it's so worth the time and a lot of return on investment, both for intrinsic and extrinsic. Where do you take folks after that? So some of the folks listening in probably feel like they have done the internal work, whether it's through this show or through, you know, going to, you know, therapists or going to other people, experts to consult with and, and do the hard internal work. How do you see people best bring that to the outside world, to their Work to their relationships in a, in a healthy way where obviously it's not a, it's not an ending process, that internal work is continuous. But you know, how do you, what's a good example of how people bring that to their work and their relationships and kind of allow it to, you know, grow but also be effective in the current state?

Yeah, that's a great point because you can do that, but you still need to, you still want to make progress and move forward in your career. And, and it's like, well, how, how does that really help? And so kind of the next step is, is making progress in your, in your role and what, what you're doing today. And what I found is that companies are really good about mapping out a career path. You know, you're going to move from whatever a programmer to senior programmer to expert to technical lead to manager to senior manager and they'll map all that out. But as you move up in responsibility, the, the way you progress and what success looks like in a specific role is, is more ambiguous. And so I tried to, I tried to kind of remove that and give again, give some a tool that people could use themselves to measure progress. And so I call it a spiral development matrix. But really it's just like first of all, give some context to what progress looks like in, in your current role. And I define three stages, call them the three Ps of progression. So it's practice, perform, pioneer. You know, you start your job, you learn about things, you move into the perform stage where you get really good. And then kind of the most important one is the pioneer stage where you get to do something special, where you make, make your mark. And so you know, people can kind of self evaluate where am I at? And then determine how do you want to make progress. And there's four domains I've defined that you need to, like I said, spiral model of development. As you kind of keep looping over things and as you do, you learn and make progress. So I call these four domain risers. Idea being you spiral around and you move up. But it's also a good way to remember the acronym. So the four domains are relationships and influence. What, what relationships and influence I need to have at this stage? What skills and experiences do I need? What results am I responsible for and what systems do I need to know and use? Whether that's technical or you know, people process systems. And, and so what I do is work with people. And you can do this for any job. For managers, it's definitely, like I said, there's a lot of ambiguity for manager. So managers is really helpful. You work and define elements for each of those domains. And when we do this for a position, it's a full matrix. But most people can do it today to just write down those four domains and pick a couple elements in each that are appropriate for their stage. You know, I need to have a stronger relationship with my boss. I need to build a peer relationship. You know, I need to. I need to get better at project management skills or communication skills. And then identify one goal for each of those domains that you want to move forward with, you know, and. And state that. State that. Put it somewhere where you can help hold yourself accountable, maybe share it with somebody else. And when you reach that goal, then set another one for that domain. So you've got four. Four things you're. You're working on, and there's two really, I think, powerful things about that. One is we. We tend to. There's kind of two things that happen with us at various stages. One, we're making progress, but we don't recognize it, so we don't see how we're. We're moving forward, and so we kind of feel defeated when in actuality we're. We're moving up. And then the other one is we are stagnant. We're not moving forward, we're not progressing, and we're not really paying attention. But our joy, our fulfillment's going down, our engagement's going down. And again, it's because we're not working on something that's important to us. So there's a lot of value in just doing that, all that exercise. But for managers or for people, like I said, anybody looking to move forward, that, that exercise of just where am I at? What's one goal I want to move forward with? In each of those areas, will. Will kind of start unlocking some momentum.

Yeah, I love that. I love the spiral anecdote because that's, that's what most of us are on. But we feel like we're on like a, like, like a hula hoop or like a matrix just revolving around, and it's hard to hop out of it. But when you think about it as a spiral, you know, you're adding a skill, you're adding a new piece of knowledge each and every day, and it's, you know, if you have a clear way of getting along that spiral, you know, to your top, and then it continues to improve over time, you'll be surprised at what you can achieve in, you know, short period of time. And Medium and long term as well, which I think is extremely powerful. That's one of the clearest ways I've ever seen it put where you have those, you know, those. You have that progressive model, so the practice, perform, pioneer, and then you have the four areas of life to be able to put those in and say, how do I need to practice my relationships and perform them and then pioneer, because I know who I want to have a relationship with. And I think that's. It makes it so clear. How do folks typically get access to that? I know, you know, you've mentioned doing webinars, you know, ebooks, things of that nature. What's the best way for somebody to, you know, during this episode or after be able to get access to that. That structure?

Yeah, well, I do a weekly email and so a lot of these things I share with that audience as I develop them or, you know, kind of give examples of how to put it into practice. And I am actually starting to do a webinar where we go through, we go through that, that exercise and try to give them something in the webinar, like I said, not you don't have to develop an entire matrix for your position, just kind of what's, what's in front of you. So that, that the signing up for my newsletter and then follow me on LinkedIn because I'll definitely post this and publicize the webinar there and be doing that perfect this coming year.

Yeah, we'll make sure to put the link to the newsletter in the, the show notes as well as the link to your LinkedIn as well, so people can access those. I can see extreme value from those, you know, just kind of going through that exercise and mapping and helping, you know, company leaders also, you know, try to map out job descriptions a little bit better because I think when I early on in my career and I saw this from senior folks, they were on a role chase. They were just chasing a role, even if their responsibilities didn't change and that didn't change their motivations in the company. It was just a new role that made them feel good for, you know, a week, two weeks, three weeks. Because now they were the director of something or the vice president of something. But when it came down to that, excitement subsided because it was the same role that they were not happy in to start, but the role change made them feel happy. So I think when we get, we get attached, you know, the company does a better job as well as the individual of knowing what that, what those real goals look like and the desired Responsibilities. I think everybody does better and it's a better outcome, which is something I look for in my own company. And, you know, obviously it's not perfect, but this is an easy way, as you've described, to tease those out from all sides of the company where you have a cohesive unit. And I think about, you know, baseball team. If we were disparate, we probably lost the game when we had that cohesion and a shared vision. And it was clear. And most of the time the manager of the team, which was the head coach, they were the ones to set that before the game or, you know, before the week before the series. So I think that's just so critical to go through an exercise like this to tease out those key points. What are some of the benefits, you know, you see off the bat and then some of the things that you see longer term from doing this type of exercise? Because I'm sure it's kind of one of those things where like, wow, I didn't see this happening or I didn't see that happening or, yeah, intended. So what are some of the benefits you see people achieve when they kind of go through a process like this?

There's a few. One, the, you know, the perform stage is where we spend most of our time in that role. But defining a practice stage is beneficial for a couple reasons. One, it helps you with recruiting when, you know, like, here's what I can. Here's what people are going to learn as they come in, so here's what I can hire for. That helps. But even I think more important is that it provides a lot of security for everyone. So when you, especially managers. I deal with managers a lot, so I reference a lot of what I do to their challenges, but I think it's applicable to anybody. But when somebody steps into a new role, there can be a lot of expectations from, from external and from themselves. And so you just think about somebody getting promoted into a manager role their first time and thinking, well, I guess now I know all the answers, you know, and I guess they expect me to know all the answers. So I got to make something up. And by defining you're in a practice stage, you're going to be learning, which means you're going to make mistakes. It allows the employees, their employees to be more gracious and supportive because they. It's acknowledged that this person's learning. It allows them some, some room to be more vulnerable and, and, you know, have that ability to share, like when they do make mistakes or what they don't know and it Allows the boss to give them this. The support, realizing you're in this practice stage.

And.

And then on the flip side, the. The other. The pioneer stage, that's one that I see often get neglected. What happens is people get good in their role, and they're doing a good job, and they feel. You know, they feel good about that. Like, we all want to be like experts and have mastery, but at some point they don't. They get. They get bored. They. They start thinking, I should do something else. And, you know, a lot of times the boss or the organization is kind of like, no harm, no foul. Everything's good. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna pay attention. I'm gonna go work on this other problem over here. And they start kind of taking for granted, you know, where the employees at. And so when somebody's ready to move into that pioneer stage, that's really important. Time to be having conversations of, how do you want to make your mark? What are you interested in doing? Some people don't want to move up, but they don't know. Again, unless they're cultivating that kind of internal motivation, they don't know what else there is. They're bored, they're not happy. So I must have to go look for another job or I must want a promotion, when really they just want to, like, you know, kick butt and make a difference in the company and their existing role. Some people do want to get promoted. And so how do you help them have experiences and impact that really sets them up for success at the next level? And that's where that pioneer stage can be really helpful and a really good discussion and kind of collaborative process with the organization and the individual. So it's like the biggest benefit I see is that the two. The two ends, you know, we do a lot of work. I think companies do a lot more work at the perform stage. Like, here's what good performance looks like. But the. The growth really happens at the. The two. The two other sides. The practice and the pioneer.

I love that. Yeah, that's. I haven't heard it described in this way. And it's. It's so transferable from what I've learned in business, but also in sports, because a lot of people just want to perform. And I think it's the same in companies. I mean, everybody just wants to perform, perform, perform. But if you don't do the practice, you don't get better. And if once you reach that ceiling of any skill, you need to know that you're at that pioneer stage or the people around you need to know so that they can kind of have a check in and say, you know, where do you want to go next? You know, do you want to pivot sideways? Do you want to go up? Do you want to go, maybe you want to go down and kind of re, re engineer yourself from, you know, that skill from scratch to kind of get even better in that pioneer stage. But I think what I see when a lot of people get to pioneer, you're right, they're, they're neglected, so they feel like they're like, oh, I need to just switch industries and restart. Because everybody's just like, yeah, you're, you're perfect, everything's good. You know, you don't need to practice anything. And I think that's where transparency and honesty comes into play. And the three, the three P's are just, you know, it's so clear with any skill, I think it's just so important to practice and not just skip to perform, but you have to have that practice perform almost like a cadence. Like you have to have a rhythm of doing it, or you're just like, I'm just going to wake up and perform and do the, do the grind, you know, the grind culture that we have today and just grind it out until I get to the point of happiness and fulfillment and success. And sometimes it happens and there are case studies where somebody just grinds it out and achieves it. But I think for most of us, we have to do the practice and we have to be self aware and conscious when we get to that pioneer of any skill or practice that we're putting in place. We need to have that awareness to know we're there. And if we're leading other people and managing, we have to know that as well. And I think that goes back to the communication aspect that a lot of companies don't have. And I'm sure that's a lot of your work is breaking down some of those communication barriers, helping them ask the right questions and things of that nature.

Yeah, yeah. And, and you know that like you said that that framework can open up some of those conversations. You know, I, I don't, I, I didn't play professional sports, but I just imagine like you hit plateaus and you know, having somebody come in and say, hey, you're, you're not batting, you know, you're batting average is staying stagnant. What do you need? What can I provide? Here's some things that I think you need as opposed to just like, oh, I guess you're you're doing okay at that, that position. We're going to let it, let it go. So just having that framework can, you know, open up some, some really good conversations.

Yeah. And then we, you know, we feel like we are accomplishing all the responsibilities on our job description. So that is success. And the company looks at the performance, you're performing well, and they're like, we're not gonna, we're not gonna, you know, nurture you. We're not gonna help you practice. We're not gonna tell you where there are gaps because they're almost taking that sports superstition that I had. When you, you know, you say, hey, here's a way you can improve, then it destroys the person's confidence and, you know, they go spiraling downhill instead of the spiraling uphill. So I think that psychology piece, I think every company needs, you know, like a organizational psychologist or. And that's what, you know, a lot of this framework, I think, integrates is some of that organizational psychology that we need more of, you know, corporations, but also small businesses to be able to get to that next level because it helps them think about how people come together and what creates that healthy dynamic. And I know all leaders want to create that healthy dynamic, like we talked about earlier, but a lot of times it just doesn't happen because it's hard. It takes work. And it takes frameworks like this to be able to bring everybody back down to earth or, you know, bring people together. And, you know, companies call it like corporate off sites or, you know, annual meetings, but they're still talking about performance, right? They're still talking about, hey, the next year we want to 10x our revenue and add 50 people. And so how, how do we get people. I know through this exercise. But how do you think people get out of that? Just having annual meetings about performance and really diving into some of these deeper topics, but also feel the business benefit. Because I think a lot of people, they don't feel that initial business value, that initial bonus or the revenue or whatever they're measuring themselves on. But if they give themselves a chance, the medium and long term benefits are so powerful here for, for both what they want, which is the revenue, but also for the culture and the people, you know, being able to say, I love this company, and then they go out to their community and say, this is the best company in the world. And then people buy more of it. And because I think people like to buy from companies that have good cultures. From what I've seen, you know, you see a Lot of companies, like, we'll plant a tree if you buy this protein bar, if you buy this, you know, juice, whatever it may be, and people are like, oh, they're going to plant a tree, so I'll just go ahead and buy it. And just shows that kind of corporate culture, social responsibility that I think a lot of people are looking for from the buyer standpoint nowadays.

Yeah, you know, it's, I mean you, you know how much we do and like our level of business in terms of personal branding. And that's what, you know, we're trying to create connections with people so they trust us and are willing to work with us. And I don't think it's much different with companies. I think if you think about companies that don't do well, they get, they don't, they have stories about how they treat their employees. And then the flip side, you have companies that do well and you hear about, you know, they have low turnover and good retention and all those things. And you know, I feel like I'm a little bit of a broken record, but I, but I'm such an advocate for managers and you know, I think a small companies, like you said, they're really, I would say that would be my passion area. I think small companies have such amazing potential, so I want to make sure they have access to tools. But big companies, the manager really becomes key in sort of aligning, not aligning, connecting what the company needs and is trying to do with what the employees are doing. And I agree, like you need a company off site to kind of get your vision and get everything going. But it's, when you come home from that, you come back from that. How are you going to help people connect what they want and what they're doing? And all this work we just talked about in terms of like self motivation to what the company needs. And I don't, I don't advocate for, you know, just kind of pull them into this big vision. It's, it's really like figuring out the gears, you know, like if, if the manager is kind of the middle gear and you got this big gear out here and a little gear of the employee, you're just trying to match those up in a way that syncs for a little bit. And you know, the manager, the employees got other things that they want to do. Not everything has to be full on with the company, but they're kind of, they're kind of getting synced up and that's the manager's role. And so I don't know if that if that all pulls together. But I think, you know, when, when I think about big companies, I think the company has to have their ambitions and their goals and be transparent about those. We want to grow, we want more revenue, but then they have to do the work to say, what do you want? How do those match for this, for this period of time? I call it modular management when you're a bigger company.

So yeah, that's a lot of times that bridge isn't there because the manager is trying to grow either to leadership or they want to stay, you know, with the folks that are figuring out what they desire and how it links to the company. So it's just like, it's like the leadership throws the ball. It, you know, it hits a invisible glass wall and then, you know, the people throw their ball and they're like, well, we, we want this, but there's something in the middle that needs to be there and that's the manager. So empowering them is just, you know, extremely beneficial, but essential to have, you know, company scale or grow to its, to its next level. I always look at, even with companies, you have to have, you know, everybody desires money, meaning and self mastery, but it also, it all starts with that self mastery piece. And that's a lot of what this framework helps people bring out for themselves, but also for the company. I think a lot of people talk about like work life balance and work life integration. And I think where they best most healthily integrate is at that point where you say, I want to do this. And then the company says, we're also on the trajectory to do that as well. So let's just, you know, meet at the point where it's going to take us both up through that spiral. But if, if they're only thinking about, you know, the money, which a lot of companies are focused on, you know, sometimes the meaning, because the meaning when they get the money will feel good, but they, they kind of push the masteries to the side and they'll say, I'll do that work once we reach that revenue goal. And typically you don't get there because you haven't done the work. So it's kind of one of those things people need to, to really focus on.

Yeah, for sure.

Where do you see people, you know, go wrong, like some of the missteps, you know, in this type of process, you know, from the manager side, you know, you're talking to a manager, they really want to see the company grow. Maybe they've done some self mastery work, but leading people is hard. You Know, making sure everybody's happy on your team. As you scale, you know, do you see areas where, you know, people drop the ball, whether it's, you know, consistent cadences or, you know, maybe they have one, one off site where they're going through this great exercise and then once they get back to the office, you know, a month later, it all just goes into a binder, you know, somewhere in a corner. So anything you've seen from that standpoint?

Yeah, there's a, there's a few things I'd say. One is, especially if you're moving into management role, you are in charge of people. You now have some responsibility for people. And when you don't commit to that and you try to hold on to other things that give you satisfaction and you're not aware of that, then your people aren't doing as well and your team's not doing as well, and then that becomes a drag and you kind of spiral down the other way. So that's one where it's. The moving into management is a big commitment and is going to open up a lot of opportunities, but also bring a lot of challenges that you didn't expect. And both personal challenges and business challenges. And so just being ready for that and have a plan for that. And that kind of relates to the other one, which is not, I guess the, the mistake is not thinking about what you do kind of from a systematic perspective. Like, once you start getting, getting good, you got to start thinking about, how can I build these systems? You know, like one of the ones we talk about early on with clients is a, is a personal productivity system. So thinking about how you get stuff done in terms of a system and what parts do I need to improve? And that's, you know, you probably experienced this as a business owner. You start thinking about like, okay, we've figured this out now how do we get it more efficient so we can build on top of IT managers and anybody, all of us, as we grow in our careers, we just take on more responsibility. And if we're not thinking about a little bit of how do we systematize some of the things, we're going to get buried or we're going to plateau.

Yeah, that's that, that's that burnout piece. I think a lot of people have gotten to. And I, I'm interested in your perspective on how technology plays into all this because, you know, especially with getting people on the same page, keeping them there, you know, you would think technology has all the positives because there are a lot of positives from people being able to visit a board from anywhere, you know, on their phone and they're like, hey, you know, I'm thinking about my personal vision. Here's what the company wants to do. So having that transparency and accessibility, I think technology really enables that. But I'm sure there's also some downsides as well to using technology in these companies. And now people have more responsibility to manage the systems and the technologies and use 10 different tools to operate. So what are some of the both positives and the downsides that you've seen from the more technology driven world that we live in? You know, coming from the technology space. So you, you understand that angle and now you're thinking more about culture. So I'm very fascinated to, to see, kind of, and hear, you know, what you've experienced there and your thoughts.

Yeah, well, one, yeah, I, I love technology. I love the opportunities that opens up. You know, it's funny, like, I was just talking to a friend of mine who does a lot of kind of traveling up and down the highway for, for work and stuff. And you know, and he's got a Starlink and he's like, it's great. I, I can be on everywhere, everywhere I go. And you know, for some of us, like, some people think like, oh, that's awful. I not want to be connected all the time. I'd want to take some time off. And I think both him and I were like, yeah, that's awesome. Like, that's, that's great. So I mean, I have that bias where I think technology is great. But you're right, my background in terms of doing, implementing systems, designing systems for people is inform even my own personal approach. And what I would tell people when I was doing projects and I'd go in and do analysis and we'd be talking about, you know, designing a new system to make their processes easier. I had kind of the simple mantra of like, simplify, integrate, automate. And, and I think that's true even personally, that it is so easy for all of us to get pulled into. What does this tool do? What does this platform do? And that's great to explore a little bit. But first you have to simplify things. What are the core things that I do that I need to do and then integrate means how do they interact with one another? And then automate then bring in technology to make it work better. But if you don't have a clear vision of, of what you're, what you're doing, things just become more convoluted and more More complex without any purpose. We used to call it. In software, you call it accidental complexity. Like, there's essential complexity and accidental complexity. And so. Yeah, so. So that's, that's. That's my approach. Like, I, I love technology, but don't forget to simplify and, and kind of how does it work with everything before. Or just diving into implementing new tools or new things.

Yeah, that's incredible for anybody at any level of a company, because we rush to integrate, we rush to automate, because it's like, all right, we've gotten to this place. Let's go ahead and just integrate a new system that says it'll in the future help us automate it. Because we want to get it off our plate. We want, you know, less responsibility, more time to do what. What we really like to do. And then it gets. I like the accidental complexity because it happens so much in companies where the company starts with this, you know, one or two simple services, but they start adding people in and just complexity gets added from all angles. And then, you know, you can't even describe what you really do for people to create value. And then it's like, we do everything. We do everything under the sun and whatever you want. Yeah, exactly. And that's, That's. That's incredible because I think it allows everybody to take a step back and ask themselves, are they creating accidental complexity both in their life and their business? And that goes back to. Let's just really simplify things down. You know, what do you do? Why do you do it? You know, how can you do it better? And I think that's that iterative process that we all need anything from. Throughout your career, you know, things you've seen, you know, people listening in today, you know, really want to kind of take away. They've already taken a lot away, but take away some of the. The life lessons you've learned throughout your, you know, work and career that can help elevate them to their next level as they, you know, increase their responsibility or want to get their career to the next step. Any. Any kind of key life lessons that stick out to you today that you feel folks need to hear,

I would just say this one. I mean, like, if I look back at decisions that I made that I wish I'd made, maybe different, I usually didn't take time to reflect and then. And for me especially, it's right about it. And it sounds really, really simple, maybe not that profound, but when I take a minute to reflect and, and for me, like I said, write things out, I Get a lot more insight. And some of the decisions I made in the past, I, I wish I had done, done that, you know, doesn't take a lot of time. Provides you some insight and helps you have confidence even when the decision doesn't. Doesn't go the way you thought it might. So that's one I try to just remember even, even now, like, just, just take a minute to reflect, write, write out a little bit, get your thoughts clear and, and then you'll have more confidence moving forward.

I like that. Yeah. One of the books I read in college was Slow Thinking by Daniel Kahneman, and he talks a lot about the economic side. I was an economics major in college. And, you know, when you're going to take a risk, you have to kind of take that pause point. And I use something called a remarkable tablet. It just helps to get your thoughts out of your head because we get in this mental spiral of this could happen, that could happen. And if you don't, for a lot of people, if you don't see it visually, I'm a visual learner, then it just gets. Your brain kind of attaches to one thing and then you go do it and you're like, oh, crap. I could have took a little bit more time and made the right decision and got a lot of return on that investment. So I think that's, that's so critical for people to do. And that's both a lesson and an exercise that people can take and kind of implement. You know, we all like action, so I think that's extremely beneficial. Brian, before we get to the last question, where can folks find you engage. You start to start a conversation around how you could help their business or them in their career.

Yeah. The main place is my website, shift focus.com and if you go there, you can sign up for my email that I push out once a week, and then I also have a link there. You want to talk more, I'd be happy to schedule a call so you can book a call there with me whenever it's convenient for you. And, and then I'm on LinkedIn a lot, so.

Excellent. Yep. We'll make sure all that's in the show notes and sharing the chat here so everybody has access to it. Brian's been excellent. This has been an extremely beneficial conversation for me. I know as I'm navigating my career and all the people listening in are going to get a lot of benefit. I love the integration that you have between things that could benefit your work life as well as your personal life. Because they're so connected. We talk a lot about the connected mindset and if you're operating in a disparate way and things are disjointed, that creates a lot of undesired outcomes, as I would say. And you know, we all want more favorable outcomes. And I think, you know, and I know what you're putting out in the world is really going to help people create those favorable outcomes both for their self and the work that they're doing. So it's so powerful. I want to acknowledge you for that. But to kind of round out the show. What is being connected or connection mean to you today? Whether it's personally or professionally?

Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for the show because I like the word connected and I actually thought a lot deeper about it, even kind of preparing for this. And it reminded me of a game that I've played, like team building game where you take a ball of string and you pass it to people and you give them, you know, when you pass it, you give them an encouragement or a compliment. And as you do that and you hold the string and you do that, you build this web and it really shows, you know, the connections between people and how you build those connections and, and what you can create. And then you have somebody like drop, drop out and that whole side of the, the net goes down and you lose. You realize the importance of one person. And I think connected for me, you know, we have such a kind of multi dimensional network here. Connected for me means realizing how you're building those connections and that you're, that you've got an important part that it's not, you know, when you drop out, you have an impact on the entire entire network. So, you know, staying in your circle or holding your part, doing your part to build the network that, that supports us all. That, that's what I would take away from being connected.

Yeah, I love that. I love, I love that definition. It's so unique. There's, there's so many layers that we're connected on from nature all the way up to, you know, people and communities. And I think that's why we love connection and mindset because there's at the marrying of those two, you know, you have that connection to nature and to the things around you and your environment and then you have the right connections with people and ideas in order to make the change you want to make. So I think it's, it's amazing that you've recognized that and didn't just go to the technology aspect because of your background. I see a lot of people, you know, they think connected, they think technology, because that's the world we live in. But when you think about those different layers, that's where we're able to make meaningful change. Brian, it's been. Been an excellent, excellent pleasure to be able to have this conversation. Looking forward to the impact this episode is going to make and definitely looking forward to continuing the conversation.

Yeah, likewise, Greg. This has been a blast. Thank you so much for being a great host.

Absolutely.