Episode 113: How You Can Help End Anti-Asian Hate

Welcome to the Workplace, a podcast by KAL Chamber. I'm Alan Zarenberg, president of the California Chamber of Commerce. Today on the podcast, we are tackling a timely and very troubling issue, anti Asian bias and an eruption of crimes targeting members of the Asian American Pacific Islander community. Joining me on the podcast today is Tin Ho, who is Assistant Chief Deputy District Attorney for Sacramento County. Deputy DA Ho has supervised and personally prosecuted hate crimes like the ones that are making headlines right now. But he's well experienced, and his experience also includes successful prosecution of the East Area Rapist, known to many of you throughout the state as the Golden State killer, who committed 13 murders in over 50 sexual assaults in 11 different jurisdictions. Welcome to the podcast, Tin. Glad you're here and glad we're able to talk about this. And I think you bring a unique perspective to this discussion because first of all, you're aware of what's going on internally from the community, but also outside in terms of prosecutors and seeing this. So are we seeing an uptick in actual offenses and crimes since the pandemic as we see on television?

Well, first of all, good morning and thank you for having me on your podcast. And to answer your question, most definitely, yes, we have seen an uptick. In fact, there has been 150% increase in hate crimes against Asian Americans Pacific Islanders in the last year. In addition to that, Stop AAPI Hate has seen and has received approximately 3,800 reported hate incidents in the last year. A recent survey by USA Today noted that 1 in 4Americans, 1 in 4Americans in recent weeks have personally seen Asian Americans being blamed for the pandemic. So we have seen a definite uptick across the country.

You know, with this increase in crimes against the Asian American community, do we see an appropriate response from law enforcement? Are they used to dealing with it? And I think most importantly, how are we dealing with this in the community in terms of prevention? And I'd love to hear your experience, as you say, these crimes have increased in the last year since the pandemic. We can talk a little bit about why you think that's happened, but also I think it would be great for you to give a little perspective of the history of what you experienced in your life, in your community, and also, I think, give us a perspective of how involved you are in the community to make sure that members of your community are willing and able to talk about this and report this to law enforcement.

Well, let's sort of break that down a little bit as well in terms of some personal experience. I am a political refugee. At the age of four, my parents and I left Vietnam. In fact, we escaped Vietnam on a fishing boat to come to the United States, the land of freedom, the American opportunity, the American dream. And we were sponsored and finally arrived in Stockton, where my uncle was living at the time. My dad was working during the day, but at night.

He would go to school, try to get his AA degree over at Delta Community College. And I remember there was one late afternoon when I was walking with my dad near the campus, and a group of men came up and started yelling at us. And I could tell that my dad was angry and upset. And we kept walking. And at that point, I didn't really understand or hadn't yet learned English. It became my second language. So later I asked my dad, what were those men yelling at us? And he looked at me and he says, they were yelling a lot of hateful things. They told us that we should go back to Vietnam. And so that stood. That really resonated with me when I was much younger and then when I was 16. And when you talk about hate incidents, when I was 16, I ended up getting this old beat up Camry. And I remember I was in a Safeway parking lot and my car had broken down, so my uncle came out to help me start the car again. And while I was there, a man drove up in a van. And he got out of his van and this was in the 80s, and he started yelling at me. He started yelling racial slurs at me. And then he got out of his truck and menacingly told me to go back to Japan and go back to your country. And was just ranting and raving. And I was so angry, I almost wanted to get into a fight with him. But my uncle held me back. And as you may recall, in the 80s, there was a trade war with Japan. And at one point, Vincent, who was a Chinese American, was killed by two autoworkers in Detroit because they mistaken him to be Japanese, when in fact he was Chinese. And so these different incidents resonated with me. And eventually, when I came to work at the Sacramento DA's office, I prosecuted homicide cases and sex cases and serial killers. But eventually, I was the supervisor of our gang and hate crime unit. And I took a particular interest in the hate crime cases. Because of my past experience, I was able to work with law enforcement. And I can tell you that law enforcement, they are trained and specialized, and they want to investigate and hear about hate crimes so that they can look at it. And a moment ago, you mentioned about Statistics. Right. And I mentioned that there were 3,800 reported incidents of hate against Asian Americans in the last year. And I think that that number is grossly underrepresented of the amount of actual incidents that there several reasons for that.

So you, you know, you have some more than any of us experience with the perpetrators. And also from your background, do you find, I mean, we use the word hate and hate is in, you know, our common language and statutes and are people, is it misunderstand? They hate, they're jealous, they're, you know, concerned about their economic well being and how you might impact that. What do you see? I mean, I think this is important. So when we as employers and we look at, we can look at our workforce and how to prevent this. And so we know what's going on and when we see it, how do we stop it?

You know, how do we stop it? And that's a great question, Alan, because you have to do things on a macro level and a micro level. And so let's talk about on a macro level, a big picture perspective. A lot of times life provides you with opportunities, they provide you with platforms. And we should use these platforms to go ahead and unite, to reach out and create a society of tolerance and acceptance. And I want to give you one such great example of using that platform.

I mean, Edison International, which is a board member of Cal Chambers, recently did just that, used their platform in a fantastic way. Edison International got together with their employee resource group, their Asian American resource group, and drafted essentially a message that they sent to their employees and to the public on social media, talking about essentially hate crime, talking about how we need to stand together with our Asian American colleagues. And they in fact donated and committed to donating $100,000 to different Stop AAPI hate groups. And they also, in this message linked out different resources that we can give to our employees, to our neighbors, to our friends to stop it. And another example is Kaiser Permanente, which is also part of Cal Chambers. They recently committed $5.4 million to different civil rights group to end hate crimes against Asian Americans. So those are some examples of doing something on a macro level. We can also have legislation that's pending before our legislature to make hate crime a violent felony, which it should be. So those are things on a macro level, on more of an individual level, there are things that we can do. For example, if you happen to be a victim or a target of a hate incident, one of the things that you should first do is if you're safe, pull out your phone Record the incident, document it so that law enforcement can investigate it. And that's the other second component, which is report it to the police. Report it to the police so that they can investigate it, they can look at it so that they can send it over to the district attorney's office so we can review it to see if there is a hate crime. So education is important. So those are the things that we can do on a macro and micro level to try to end this.

So let me. I want to come back to that about prevention and various tools that employers may want to employ in the workplace. Like you're talking about. But, you know, you talk about hate crimes and, you know, we can watch these incidents on television. What it clearly looks like it's a hate crime. But in a legal definition, it's not that easy to prove a hate crime, although there's always underlying offenses. Is that because you have to prove intent at that time?

Yes, you're absolutely right. So I'll give you a very brief rundown of what is a hate crime and what is a hate incident. So, for example, in California, the hate crime statute is defined in penal code section 422.5 and 422.6. What it talks about is if you use violence or threat of violence against another person because you have a biased motive against them, then that is a misdemeanor hate crime. Okay? If you destroy property that's under $950 in value where you deface it because you have a biased motive, that's a misdemeanor hate crime. If you have a prior incident of doing this or there was physical injury that occurred, that can be elevated to a felony where you can go to state prison. Now, with these hate crime charges, we have to prove that the motivation behind the commission of the crime when it was being committed was because you were biased or you had a racial animus against somebody, ethnicity, their national origin, their sexual orientation, their religion, or their race. That is what a hate crime is. Now, there's a difference between that and a hate incident. And I can give you an example. Let's say you have two guys, they're in a bar, and they start to get into a fight. And they're fighting because they're drunk, and they're fighting because somebody spilled beer on the other one. And in the process of that fight, one of them yells out some racial slurs against the second person. So the question is, was the fight, the assault, the result of a racial animus, or did they have some other reason why they started fighting. And in the process, racial slurs were given that I would categorize as a hate incident. Okay? And I'll give another example of a hate incident versus a hate crime. You know, several weeks ago, my niece, who's 16 years old, she and another classmate of her, both of them are Asian, they're walking, they're in Folsom, and it's a great city, by the way, but somebody drove up and got out of the car and this man walked up to her and he said to my 16 year old niece, what country are you from? What's your ethnicity? She looked at him and she says, I'm Vietnamese. At which point he says, because of you and the virus, my children's lives are ruined. Now, first of all, he's saying this to a 16 year old, okay, instead of, you know, an adult. And clearly there is ignorance behind this. But that is a hate incident, not a hate crime. He didn't make a threat, he didn't use physical force, he didn't deface any property, okay? He did none of those things. So that is not a crime, but it is definitely a hate incident. All right? And that is the difference between the two. But let's say he kept coming back every day to that location and he kept harassing her and he kept saying it or he blocked her movement. Then that gets elevated to a hate crime. But it depends on how often it's happening, when it's happening, how it's happening, and what actions are involved. So we look at the totality of the circumstances. But in every one of those cases, I recommend that people report it to the police, because when you report it to the police, it gives law enforcement an opportunity to investigate it and look at it.

So, you know, you talked a little bit about, you know, your history and as an Asian American and you know, the prejudice against you throughout your life. But you also mentioned that in the last year and this story about the source of the pandemic has created additional.

I think, threats and harm to people. This is really an issue of ignorance. I mean, it's not like your niece had anything to do with the pandemic.

Any more than the person who accused her. Do you find this among the perpetrators to just be ignorant? Is it social media? I mean, I asked this question about. So we can all stand up and say this isn't the source of the pandemic and this should not be the source of hate and lashing out at people.

And we're talking about history and the history of racism, right there has been for many years, a history of racism against Asian Americans. You look at the exclusionary act that was passed against Chinese Americans. You look at why we have Chinatown in the first place. We have Chinatown or a little Saigon. And part of that is there has been. When you are an immigrant or you are a foreigner in this country, let's remember America is a beautiful country made up of people from all over the world, right? That we come here for a new life. That is the beauty of the American dream and the beauty of the democracy that we've created in this country. But there is a history of racism that has occurred in this country. And I think now that we have social media, now that we have Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and we have all these things together, it can amplify tolerance, or it can amplify hate. It can amplify acceptance and understanding, or it can magnify intolerance. Right? It just depends. And I think because of where we are in the history of the world, everything gets amplified. The volume gets turned up constantly. And you also factor in now we've gone through, for the first time in over 100 years, a worldwide pandemic which has put a tremendous amount of stress, not only on people individually, but on government, on businesses, on resources, you know, in our community. And so with that all, there it is, the perfect storm that has really increased and ratcheted up the amount of hate incidents against Asian Americans.

In terms of just your perspective in law enforcement, but also your perspective in the community, do you see that? We see certainly outrage on part of people who have been victims or friends of the victims. What do you see going on in the community, and how can everybody help prevent this? And I think that's really what we want to talk about here, is we want to identify what's going on, but most importantly, how can we prevent this? Knowledge is certainly more important than anything. And following through on that.

Well, I think, first of all, this is what I've seen in my community, in the Asian American community. This is really a galvanizing moment. You get the feeling, and the emotion of it is it's drawing people, the Asian American community, together and really giving people a voice. People are standing up, People are speaking out and saying, enough is enough. You know, we need to stop this, and we need to stop it now. And so it's really galvanized the Asian American community across this country. That's the first thing I've noticed, and I've also noticed and what inspires me about this country is that people standing up and saying, we are here to stand with you. We are here to stop this as well. And that's the beautiful thing about this country. We are a country of tolerance. We are a country of acceptance and of understanding. And there are small segments within our country that pushes against that. But the vast majority of Americans want to make sure that we all are accepted and that we all live without having to fear, hate and the things that we can do. If you happen to see this happening, don't walk away. If you happen to see this happening, intervene and stop. If you happen to see this, call the police. If you happen to see this recorded on your phone. And so it's so easy sometimes because we need to get to somewhere, we need to do something that we just keep going. We turn the other way. We don't stop. But over and over again, what I've noticed in the last year is people stopping, stopping and standing up and speaking out. And there are productive things you can do. And those are all the things we do, both as a business, both as individuals, and in law enforcement as well, that we are all doing and helping to end.

Yes. And, you know, I think so much here that people have had a struggle for the last year, and for the people that have been the victim of these incidents and crimes, they're not the responsible party and they share in the same, you know, economic and social restrictions that everybody else suffers. But, you know, I think what is so disheartening is when we see these crimes against the elderly, where you see these incidents and actually assaults against elderly people. And that more than anything, I think, strikes a chord with everybody, that why are these vulnerable people being attacked who had nothing to do with it? And I think what we can do here today is explain the history here a little bit about it, but also, more importantly, the current day, the current events, and everybody stand up and make sure your workplace is free from bias, is inclusionary. And so to that point, I just will close. I'd like to ask you in the District Attorney's office in Sacramento, who's responsible for prosecuting these? Have you found a new empathy for inclusion, diversity as part of this struggle here?

I can say that I've been at the Sacramento District attorney's office since 2004, and it is definitely has the feeling of a family. We are very inclusive. We are very accepting. We have a unit that specializes, as I said, in prosecuting hate crimes, in reviewing them, charging them, and prosecuting them. And I think that we also have a lot of community outreach within our office as well, with the different communities. For example, a couple weeks ago I was out because I oversee community outreach. I was out over at vinfat, it's a supermarket on Stockton Boulevard in our Little Saigon area here in Sacramento. And I was out there with the Sacramento Police Department and the sheriff's department. We were in booths passing out pamphlets about what to do when you experience a hate crime, talking with community members. I was there speaking Vietnamese. Somebody else was there speaking Cantonese and Mandarin and Tigali. And so these are the things that we do in an office and have done in an office. And we're not alone in that. I've mentioned some examples with other members of the Cal Chambers and just this podcast, bringing attention to it is important. And so it's always been a goal of my office and a goal, I think, of many people. And we need to shine more of a light on the good things that are happening and the good things that we are all doing.

Well, it's great and thank you so much for, I think as you pointed it, highlight this, but also to make sure that people are engaged and when you see something, as they say, say something, but to make sure that you're involved and more importantly, anything we can all do to prevent this. It's unfortunate that I'll say this, that we've had these incidents to bring this attention to us, but I think it gives us a chance to talk about the systemic racism that Asian Americans have felt over the years. And I'll ask you, other than this pandemic. So we'll close with this because I think it's an important. Do we see progress? Do you see progress in what you viewed as your family's history and people misunderstanding things? Have you seen progress as you've matured from your child who came from Vietnam to today with the inclusion as you are as a leader in the district attorney's office?

This is the beautiful thing about America. If I was living in Vietnam right now, I'd probably be a rice farmer because that's what my grandfather did before me. He lived in a house with a dirt floor. And where else in the world can you come to a country where you have essentially no money, nothing but the clothes in your back, where you have to go and essentially find a mattress in an alleyway so you can sleep on it in a one bedroom apartment. Where can you go where you can then having no one in your family, become a lawyer. Become a lawyer and then become a prosecutor and then become one of the on the executive team at the office and be able to speak out in public and be a leader in the community. Only America can you have those opportunities. And I have seen that progress. I've seen that progress, not only in my story, in my family's story, but in so many other stories. And we also see progress right now in the fact that that this issue is gaining more attention and it's galvanizing the community to stand up and speak out and empowering them. Right. And so I see progress, and I see nothing but hope in this country. You know, the night is darkest before the sun comes out, and so the sun will come out again. And I see nothing but progress.

Well, great. Thank you so much to Tan Ho, who is assistant chief deputy district attorney for Sacramento County. And thank you for joining us on the workplace. Please comment, share and subscribe to Cal Chambers podcast by visiting cowchamber. Com.