Humanizing Technology in Client Relationships | E27 – Hard Refresh – An ISSA Podcast

Sa.

Welcome back to Hard Refresh, everyone. We got Tim from Janitronics with us today. Tim, my man, thank you for coming on the show. Go ahead and introduce yourself.

Well, thank you, Kaden, and thank you, Karina for having me today. It's certainly a pleasure and I look forward to this robust conversation. Like you said, Kaden, my name is Tim Cullinan. I'm the senior vice president for Geantronics building services located in Waltham, Massachusetts. We are a commercial cleaning company, family owned, locally operated with over 1600 hourly union team members and about 80 to 90 of US salary management leadership staff of the organization. We've been in business for over 47 years and we focus really on commercial a office space, life science space to include controlled environments, construction, cleanings and other markets within the region.

That is amazing. So being in Boston, I gotta ask.

Because I was gonna do this.

Are you a Bruins fan?

We're looking forward to October 8th.

I was gonna ask what about football? I was like, does this mean like your DNA is the pats. Like, are you a die hard Patriots fan as well or.

No, die hard Patriots fan. Die hard Red Sox fan.

Okay.

I, I'm, you know, I fall. I have friends that follow the Bruins much closer than I do. I'm a little bit of a fair weather fan in that regard. And then huge Celtics fan.

And I have to ask last question before we move on Tom Brady. How do we feel about him now that he's gone? Like what? Still?

We love Tom Brady.

Okay.

So they had actually in early August revealed his statue at Gillette Stadium in Foxboro.

Oh, very cool.

Wow.

It's pretty special. And then rumor has it that coach Belichick will be the next statue coming to Foxborough. But no, Tom Brady is beloved by all here in New England and Patriots.

Well, we have a. We have a love hate relationship over here at the g. The nep household because my husband is a Raiders fan. So he has been raised to hate Tom Brady. But now it's obviously changed because Tom Brady is very much part of the Raiders organization. So now we're quite tiptoeing around, do we like Tom Brady today? Do we not like Tom Brady? So the progression of his career. But it's so cool to give him a chance.

Give him a chance.

100%. I'm open to it.

And it was great to see that your son is a football player. I'd ask you how he did, but I already know he scored two touchdowns.

Yes.

So that was exciting to see. So as a mom, congratulations.

Thank you. Thank you. It's fun to see him out there playing and wearing that jersey, the number of my husband. So it's surreal. Really, really fun. Yeah.

That's awesome. Well, if it was, if it was hockey. I know. I'm. I'm coming out in October, Tim, for an event that I'm attending and trying to sync up with you, but there is. I was just looking at the schedule. Boston Bruins are playing the Florida Panthers the night of the 21st.

So we gotta find time.

Maybe we'll. We'll make that happen and go together and.

Are you still playing a little bit, kid?

Actually, I played last night. Last night's game was. I didn't get home till 1am this morning. Didn't go to bed till almost 3.

Yeah, good for you.

Those are the moments I questioned this hobby. Yeah. A little bit. A little bit of late night. Wednesday mornings are a little bit of a later start for me. But already we're gonna dive into Tim giving us two truths and a lie to see how well of a master crafting liar he is. Let's. Let's dive in. What do you got for us, Tim?

All right, so I returned home from Rome on Sunday. I went to the Dave Chappelle show at the TV Garden on Monday, and yesterday I celebrated National Hispanic Heritage Month with my colleagues.

Okay. National Hispanic Heritage Month started on the 15th, so could he have celebrated that yesterday?

Yes.

He didn't say kickoff, so that's still true. He returned from. Tim, you just got back from Rome. Okay, I don't know. I'm gonna say. And again, I'm always wrong. So this feels like I'm gonna say the one that I think is true as the lie. I'm. So I'm gonna do the reverse. Think it's Rome is. I'm gonna go with Rome. That's a lie.

Rome is the lie.

Rome is the lie.

What was the second one again?

Dave Chappelle.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Because my. This is why. Okay. My instinct again, I was a communications major, no big deal. So I feel like I. At this and you were reading something. So I feel like that one. My instinct would be that you're telling the truth. But I've been wrong on every single one always. So I'm going to do the opposite. So I think the number one is a lie. Kaden.

I'll sync up. Yeah.

Okay.

Well, Kaden and Karina, you are incorrect again. Rome on Sunday. Dave. Dave Chappelle was not in town on Monday. Otherwise I would have made every effort to go and Yesterday as a teen and I'm sure you folks did as well as we, you know, we celebrated National Aspirate Heritage Month here at our headquarters with a nice launch in.

Yeah, it was pretty cool. So awesome.

That's awesome.

I love that. But we really, I feel like Kaden, we have to figure out how to be better at this because I can't in good conscious continue being so bad at this. We've got to do something. I feel like I need to take.

Some sort of course analyzer real time, be like, yeah, Chappelle was not in Boston.

So that was my, that was my worry. When I put it all together, that was my worry.

This is why we also don't ask it beforehand. Then we can do our research.

That's true. Well, and I was thinking like, imagine my communication teachers like even listening, they're probably like, she is wrong. That's incorrect. She obviously didn't pay attention in school because wrong, wrong, wrong. So I need a refresher but let's get into it. I'm excited.

Let's do it. So let's go over some scheduling of amazing things that are coming up.

Yes. So quick control. Let's see. So we are gearing up for the show and we are what, eight weeks away from the Vegas show. We've got three killer sessions starting off with AI in action, real world tools for real time results. That is going to be November 12, 2:30 to 3:30. And then we have. I just realized I did this all in wonky order. My apologies. We also have the CLX that we're doing on the 11th from 2:30 to 3:30. Again, cohort learning experience. We're essentially teaching on a topic this time around. We're talking about data and strategy and really having a relationship with data. So super great facilitators. And then last but certainly not least, our very own Kayden is doing the unlocking tech secrets insights from three leading softwares. It's going to be Kayden from otv, Tony from Smart, Inspect and Matt from Orange qc. So putting down the, the battle weapons and coming to the table for collaboration and conversation. So I'm super excited about this and it's going to be a really good session.

Yeah.

To Tony and Matt and I think we would be really good friends outside of work.

The fact that your competitors, I mean, hold on.

We're. I think we're friends.

You know, you are friends.

We get on and we, we talk anyways. In addition, actually so we are going to do several live. Not live, but recording in person. Episodes of Hard Refresh. So if you're a listener and you've just been dying to come on and have a conversation with Korina and maybe myself, we're going to be at the show recording several episodes in person. More details to come, but just reach out to us if you're interested in being one of those individuals. So.

And we had so much fun doing that at Business Growth series. Remember we had Channing on there. We had Mike and Billy from Clean Mark, so Sue and then Luis. It's just so fun to do in person interviews. So we're looking forward to it. So do reach out and come hang out with us.

A lot of fun. It was a blast. We're gonna do it again. But today's topic we are going to be diving into clearing the cash. What's the hardest refresh of today? And this one might seem a little bit like an obvious of a topic, but the reason why we brought Tim on and want his gracious opinions in all of his years of experience is the fact that at the core of a business is the relationship you have with a client. Now, technology plays a role in that very much human relationship. And so we want to dive into today the role that technology is playing at Janitronics in strengthening client relationships. The things, the outcomes that you're experiencing, you guys have been long time adopters of technology. So let's, let's dive in. Because in the decades that you guys have been servicing people, technologies evolve, robotics, AI, all these things are coming about. How has technology changed the way that your client relationship continues to function?

Great question. Kaden and Karina. Um, and you know, you think of technology and maybe AI in particular, and you know, at first you might get a little bit overwhelmed, there's some emotion involved with it. But for us, it's. Technology in itself doesn't create trust with our clients. You know, our clients trust us as people and humans and us as a team in an organization. What we've really tried to focus on is technology as a tool or platform that can be applied throughout our organization. Organization, different pieces and different departments. And it's really about the collective approach now, what technology has done for us, it has allowed for opportunities to build trust. We don't, you know, no one's trusting us because we use technology, but it has allowed for opportunities to build trust. And I, and I, I look forward to talking about those examples today. So for us, it's about our approach. So, you know, we have a certain belief system. And Kaden and Karine, I know that you share in this. But in order for us to take care of our clients, we essentially need to take care of our people first. So we really look for opportunities to prioritize the impact that it will make for our people because we know that if we take care of our people, like I said, they will take care of our clients. And so for us, we always kind of take a step back. And when you look at the life of one of our hourly team members, we started at the very beginning, before they even arrived here at Jantronic. So we're talking about how we go out and recruit the right people and then we talk about and how we perform and execute, hiring those people. And then when they are hired and they become Team Janitronics, we understand how important and how impactful that onboarding experience is for them. And for us. That is really one of the first times that they'll start to use technology in regards to the organization. Part of that onboarding is educating our staff on our clock in, clock out system, which is an AI driven platform that uses 18 points of facial recognition so that when an employee punches in to begin their shift and punches and then punches out later, that we can ensure to our clients that in fact this is the employee that punched it and been punched out of your building. And there's many important reasons for that, but none more important than the safety aspect. But it also allows us to be transparent about labor reporting and how many hours are used in a building. And something like that can help. And is does provide an opportunity to then build trust with the client because you essentially, you know, transparency is a big part of any relationship. Yeah, clientron's client is no different. So. And then at the same time it impacts our, our employees in that it's a, there's a special function to it where they actually review at the end of the week all of their time and they essentially approve it before it goes to our management and payroll team so that there's, there's no surprises in, in your paycheck at the end of the day. And one of the most important functions we do as a service organization is make sure that our team is paid accurately and timely each week. So like I said, I was just.

Going to add Tim. So what I'm hearing as you're speaking, it's really the concept of humanizing technology. Right. I mean, you're talking about infusing that both from internally and externally. And I love that because obviously there's the human component that I think oftentimes is overlooked when you're talking about platforms. And then I immediately start to think about, as you're explaining the actual applications of this is essentially you're kind of personifying the tools that you're using in a lot of ways. And in serving both the clients and the teams that you have internally, it just, it feels very much organic, the approach and the part in the relationship which I commend you for, because a lot of people have a hard time or a lot of companies, I think, have a hard time with the evolution of the relationship with technology. Oftentimes can be very cold. And it feels like, as you were talking, it felt very warm, like it is part of your DNA. And it's very much as speaks to accountability, transparency, trust, all the things. So kudos to you and the team.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And that's what we were. That's what we're. And you've articulated it better than I did, but that's what we were hoping for.

And we've talked about this many times on Hard Refresh, which is what existed before the technology. And a of the things you were just describing is, is the fact that even if it was manual, it sounds like it's been a, a focal point for Janitronics for decades in how you guys operate. That technology just enhanced current processes. Right? AI, facial recognition, when, when an employee clocks in. Before that was around. Right. We, we often talk about these processes and these, these playbooks that businesses should be executing. I want to, I want to go back to maybe backing up there for a minute. In, in the very early days of, of Janitronics, is there, is there anything a manual process? Like today we'd be like, oh my gosh, that would take so long. But like, what did you do back then to, to do some of these things that enhance the client relationship? Is there, is there anything in that, in that playbook that was like. People would laugh if you did this today, but this is what we did back then.

I think when, you know, and this is probably fairly typical for our industry, but when you look at, you know, our quality assurance program or assuring quality to our clients, and from an industry perspective, depending on the evolution of your organization, you essentially started with some level of a manual process. And was that on a Word document? Was that on a piece of, literally on a clipboard and a piece of paper and then, you know, eventually grew into maybe a Word document with some pictures and then maybe grew into an Excel sheet with graphs and charts. So we slowly surely got far more sophisticated. And now we are in A day where we have a program that's user friendly provides us an opportunity to be very transparent with our clients. And many of our clients actually participate in the process. It's measurable. So we can, you know, we talk about accountability and, you know, being able to forecast for the future and the value of being predictable. But then it also provides data through AI, where exceptional work is taking place, as well as focus areas, of course, which is the, which was the overriding point of assuring quality. So that quality assurance program is probably one from an industry perspective, Kaden, that has gone from very manual to, at this point, for us, very AI driven.

Kaden, you reminded me of a story. I gotta share this because this just shows where we've come from when it comes to quality control. Back nearly 20 years ago, we were onboarding a customer to OTVV and we literally got a banker's box.

Yeah.

Of the inspections that they had done. And guys like, I remember when we would have to go to. I was a kid in the 90s, we'd have to go to Costco to get the prints of the photos. You know, all of this stuff literally on, on the paper, they had the scopes and then they had stapled, printed out pictures like Polaroid pictures, like for each of the areas. And, and that was a long time ago. Our system doesn't even do certain things related to that project anymore. But it just made me think of like, yeah, that's, that's the level of equality of like trying to provide proof of taking a literal printout of a picture, stapling it to the page of this word template that, you know, from the 90s, that was like, in that. That is. It's amazing that the job to be done was still the same back then as it is today. But obviously today it's the, the blink of an eye. And data processing that's different.

But, but I think it's so important to understand how far we've come. And I was just having the same conversation in terms of reflecting not just from an industry pers, but the technology perspective. When I first started in the cleaning industry, my mother had cleaning, the residential cleaning company. And so she used to have these maps that were like this big. And so she would like put it out on the, on the table and then she would highlight and like photocopy and then that was part of the binder. And then every single check had to be entered in these, like, deposit slip with their name. And it's just so funny to me that we've come so Such a long way in what feels like a short amount of time. And I think Tim, to your point, like if you to have the evolution of technology and even systems, even quality control, understanding that framework or the foundation of what a program should look like ultimately helps when you're include when you're using technology. Understanding what variables you're looking at, how to really provide or achieve the goal, I should say is always ultimately helpful when you're talking about technology.

So in the end, let's, let's dive into this quality assurance side of things, because it leads into this very nicely, is that clients today are demanding more transparency with technology. This, this idea of clients, I mean we're an entire platform built on that concept. So I don't mean to diss it by any means, but the requirement of proof and this, this idea of transparency, where do you think it stems from? From clients. Is it a trust issue? Is it the fact that it's just trendy and people just want to have data at their fingertips? Do the clients really know the value of that transparency and the request that they're demanding of building service contractors? Like, let's, let's unpack that a little bit of like what's at the heart of a client requiring or asking for this level of transparency and data?

I think they do. Kaden and I, one example comes real quickly to mind and we've been talking about quality assurance in our program. We have part of our organization which is our life science division and within that division all our clients with controlled environments, so NP space through manufacturing practices. So with that, three or four years ago, took our quality assurance platform otuvic and said how can we apply this to our life science division and use that same type of approach that we use in our janitorial spaces as far as quality assurance and inspections, but use it in controlled environments. So we have a very talented director of compliance and she started to take our manual audit program and actually work with hand in hand with the folks, your team at otuve and created what we now use very successfully as our life science audit and observation program. And so with that we have our operations managers as well as our director of compliance going into controlled environments and observing our staff, executing our clients standard operating procedures. So that would include things from gowning to material transfer. So how we're transferring materials to the actual cleaning tech and depending on the cleaning regimen changes from day to day as well as good documentation practices which are very critical in controlled environments.

So sure.

And so we talk about transparency in controlled environments. You know, Depending on who's listening and how familiar with are. They're not rooms that you just go in and out of. So it allows us to provide a report to our client to review with pictures, notes, and we have a grading system of which we either pass or fail and go over those observations with our clients in a very transparent way. And you know, over time you see trends, you see analysis, and you know, this is something where an industry that's federally, federally regulated, there has been many times where clients, you know, clients get audit. Audited by their clients and the federal government all the time in this space. So for them to be aligned with a janitorial service provider that has such a key component to our program, which complements all the other aspects of our life science division, it's the transparency is for us, we. We feel like it's.

You does that stuff. And this works across many, many of the software vendors out there. But the outcome that the client is expecting, are they wanting to look at this data with you? Is it when things get called into question, they require by law that certain things are documented. Are there laws that are driving this, particularly for life sciences, that says, hey, you better be able to back this up? Are you avoiding auditing fines by. By having data like, what. What's the story? I guess that other building service contractors that may have not achieved what Janitronics has achieved that like, what should they look out for?

So I think it will always complement our clients program. So one of the outcomes that this has, this is had and I think of a particular client is they do their own audits and their own observations and many times of the cleaning staff in their own staff. So. But what this has done, because we had been so proactively transparent and this tool has allowed us that opportunity to do so, that clients now have us sit in on their audits and observations. So, you know, we talk about how technology can transfer to trust and relationships, you know, because we have had. We were so transparent and we've had that tool to be so transparent. Our clients have. You know, it just makes us one team that much more.

Yeah, I'm so glad you. I was gonna say, I'm so glad Tim, you said that word proactive, because as you were talking, that was the very first thing that came into my mind. Like the approach is when you talked about like the assessment and having your team really take that and kind of make it their own with the help of the O2V, like stemming from the quality control program. And then it became an assessment that felt not only proactive, but it also felt like you had a more. I don't know how to say this like it. It feels as though you understand not just from a quality perspective, what is needed, but the evolution of quality. Right. Because I think that's one of the things as an industry we have to push ourselves. And kid, I love that you asked that question. The mind shift of quality control has to change because it's evolved past a proof of service. It's evolved past a deficiencies list. Right. It's. To Tim's point, it's a doubt. Transforming into a proactive and a more robust offering for your clients that then builds that trust, has you in the room is part of the conversation. You're much stickier now with your client. Right. I mean, your clients now relying on your team to help them in other aspects of their job, of their portfolio. So it just becomes a much more integrated partnership. I think that's very, very smart and very successful.

Karina. To piggyback off that, we feel that clients want to do business with service partners that align with their business model. And our clients are using not necessarily quality assurance software, but they're. Our clients are property developers, property owners, property managers, director of facilities folks. Those folks are using that technology. So they, whether it be any of their service partners, they want to partner with an organization with people that align with their business model.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, you have, you have. I haven't heard it much lately over the last few years, but like, you know, 12 years ago when I first got in the industry, it was like the constant phrase. And I've still heard it today, but it's just like you're only as good as your last clean. That's like unacceptable today because that just shows that there isn't transparency. And the reason why that phrase used to be more dominating is because people couldn't see it was just whatever the last complaint was on the mind. That's the emotional state I'm in. Therefore, I don't like you as a contractor where it's data protects that. It's this, this idea of like trust. Trust but verify. It's okay to verify. Trust but verify.

Sure.

Well, and I think too, like, if you talk about the information that is compiled on these inspection reports, oftentimes there's a lot of gold nuggets in there. Like, one of the things that I remember talking through with the ops team at Pioneer was we should get into a place where the reports or inspection reports are showing us a really clear picture of the story of clean Right. There's multiple deficiencies within this carpet and it's, you know, it's past the, it's a spot here in carpet cleaning, it's this and it's a mark and blah blah, blah. But then is it something that could garner a hey, maybe it's time for an encapsulation service. Maybe it's time to extend and do a spell special service. Like there is so much media information in these inspection reports and if you can train your teams and your clients on how to read them and paint the picture to provide a better service, I think ultimately from a revenue perspective that's, that's gold. Right. But also from value perspective it's gold.

Completely agree. And, and none of it works if it's not user friendly and you know the folks will be able utilize it. So it. Completely agree.

So to, so to kind of, I want to, I want to take this and ultimately the reason for technology, it is of my belief is to do mundane things so that we as humans can always be at the heart of connection. So I kind of want to end on this where we're close to time. How does technology help you guys balance between like that automation versus the personal connection that clients still you talked about in the beginning. Like that personal connection, that human connection. Where can we double down more as an industry on that human connection while technology frees up mundane tasks automation. What. And maybe this isn't scalable today but like is there something that's like man, I wish we could do this for every single client from a human interaction standpoint. Go deeper on that connection piece. Like where's that going to take us? The more AI does automate things and software in general to allow us to, to recenter on human connection.

Sure. And when you, when you, when you talk about human connection, Kaden, in our industry and what we do every day, you know, very quickly brings to mind the relationship between a day staff member and a client. And it's, it's, it's a, it's a special one and an interesting one. Many times our, our day person because they have the opportunity to work and you know intimately with our clients and on their teams every day because you know they become members of their teams, members of their families, their building families and their property families and such. That connection, that relationship, they can be in the eyes of our clients the most strongest facing genotronics representation on a day to day basis. So when we talk about relations and the human connection, I immediately think of that all of those day staff, client special relationships that are out there every day in the Datatronics world. So what can we do to help and promote and show that that same gay person is, you know, over periods of time, performing their work? Not only they're a great person and they're contributing to the property team, but by the way, you know, this is what they've been able to accomplish in an X amount of period. And something like the quality assurance program allows us to do that and brings it from a, you know, relationships to an even higher level. You know, this is, this is how we're performing for you. It's more than just, you know, a particular day person. You know, we now have the technology behind them to show our clients what awesome job that they're doing. To answer your other question, kind of, where do we see. Where do I see technology? I think we'll continue to see autonomous equipment throughout buildings. It's getting better and better, and I am excited about the Issa show in November. I'm sure that we'll have quite a number of autonomous floor machines, whether they be sweepers or auto scrubbers, and then the smart technology throughout the course of the building and such. So I think we will continue to see that because it is getting better and more effective. You know, if you're Kaden, Karina and Tim, and we're looking at demonstrations of new floor equipment as part of our lives, you know, it's. They're getting closer to the side of the wall with the sweepers, they're getting into corners and edges, all those things that we've talked about, they're able to set up the. The autonomous equipment fairly quickly, and the equipment knows enough now where to go and where to come back to and operating very efficiently. So I think we'll continue to see that throughout our industry as years to come.

I think also too, though, if you think about the kind of the pillars of this, one of the things that we can do as an industry, and I love that you represent from a client services perspective, you're the broker between your team and the client. Right. And what I, what I think about when you're, when we're talking about this is the pillars of communication and articulation. Right. If you're really trying to bridge the gap as a service provider, as a bsc, we have to do a really good job of communicating the relationship that our team members have with technology and how it benefits or empowers our team and ultimately serves our clients. Because I think that's something that it. It's very ambiguous still about the role of technology in general in terms of, yeah, you can be more productive and you can do all these things, amazing. But if you drill into the layers of technology and the purpose, communicating that with your team and your external client, your clients saying, you know, we use this tool to empower, we use that, this tool to enhance for predictive analytics, and we can provide more value. That ultimately, I think is what we're. What we should be striving for is how to properly articulate and communicate to our clients the value of using technology and our relationship with technology.

I. Karina, you just made me think of a story. And I'll. I'll. I'll end this on this. A client, and they weren't even using our system. A client, one of our clients was forced to use another system. And when, when we were on site with this situation, the other system, their client was so. And I'm going to butcher it. But in essence, he said, this system of tracking allows me to remember the custodian's name. And I was like, what do you mean by that? And he was so passionate about it. It was an educational facility. And he said, because I'm not constantly questioning or trying to keep up with the cleaning company that's coming in here and working with our custodians doing project work, he said, if I can offload all of that upper management, constant tracking of everything to these technologies, I'm going to remember his or her name more. And I was just like, man, that the ultimate purpose was the fact that these cleaners, these frontline staff, they're human beings who very much deserve to be remembered by name.

Yeah.

Not, oh, the cleaners missed last night. That's. That's the service. That's, that's kind of the overall message I'm getting from today's conversation. This client relationship is. Tim, I love how you put it. It's just like they might represent Janitronics brand more than the back, more than me.

Yeah, yeah.

And. And that relationship is one. You want to have data behind how things are moving. So that way. And, and, you know, for our audience listening today, it's like, maybe, maybe you can take this to your own team. It's just like we do this so our clients remember our team's names.

Yeah. That's so powerful.

Deep. It goes so. All right. Well, Tim, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show today. I loved the conversation. Thank you for joining. Hard refresh. For all of you listening, please reach out if you are interested in joining the conversation. But nonetheless, we appreciate the listens and the conversations and all of our amazing guests today and present or our past and and future guests that will be coming on. So that is a wrap on today's episode. We'll see you next time on Hard Refresh.

Thanks, guys.