Building A Sales Funnel and Gaining Independence From Amazon w/ Los Silva

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Hey, good looking people. Ryan, Daniel Moran here. Welcome to Freedom Fast Lane. Today we're going to be diving into a very meaty subject that is tough to condense into 45 minutes or so, but I'm going to do the best that I can with my buddy, Los Silva. Now, Los works with a lot of people in our tribe and in our back room. People who are selling physical products and doing really, really well, but are nervous that it's all going to go or that they're nervous about not having control over the customer experience. So Lowe sells a ton of physical products, but he does, I think, zero on Amazon. All of his sales processes are done through controlling the customer experiences. Maybe some people would call it a funnel by putting up ads to some sort of a conversion page and then selling them more on the back end. This is a subject that we could spend a year studying and still just start to understand. But I wanted to have Alosan to talk about what's working. I wanted him to talk about where the biggest wins are and what the overall funnel process looks like. Now, again, this is really meaty. And even Los admits that this is hard work. A lot of people don't make the transition to building up their own sales channels because it's an entire business model and it does take work and time to figure out. The important thing that he stresses, though, is that you should start small and you can start really simple. And if you start simple, you can find out what's working and then scale what is working. For example, Los talks about in this interview how one of the things that's working is working with Instagram influencers, which is something that I've been stressing for a long time. Work with influencers. And he pays them to talk about a product or service, sends them to an opt in page. The opt in page goes over to a very simple sales page and then he sells them something or communicates with them via email about their products and services. Starting very simple is a great way to test what's working. But we could spend years complicating it, making it complex and optimizing a campaign. What I want you to get out of this is where you might be able to start so that you have other channels that you can hit because that makes your business really breakthrough. When you can advertise to millions of people rather than being dependent on completely on a channel, that is when you are a real business. So I will attempt to button this up and give you some clear takeaways after the interview with Los. But for now, let's dive right into it with Lo Silva.

Lo Silva, we made it happen. Welcome to Freedom Fast Lane.

What's up, man? We had to cancel. I think it was my fault, but either way, I'm excited. I'm excited to be on the show finally. How are you, man?

Dude, I'm doing great. And I'm so excited to have you because you basically.

Are on a daily basis addressing the major problem that a lot of my listeners have, which is the addiction to one primary sales channel. A lot of times it's Amazon, sometimes it's ClickBank, sometimes it's their SEO. But as entrepreneurs, I know we tend to get enamored with one source of sales and one source of traffic, and you solve that for people. So I just wanted to hang out with you and talk a bit about how you do that and how you get people kind of independent of places. But first, would you just give an overall idea or overall high level view of how you're making sales, where you're acquiring customers? Because I would consider you to be running real businesses. You manage your own traffic, your own customer experiences. So would you just give us a high level view of what that looks like?

Yeah. So we have a bunch of different businesses from digital education to products with physical and stuff like that. And we also effectively have an agency that's kind of like an incubator. We consult and then we work potentially in partnership with different companies and help them scale through different channels. We've been working a lot with people that have Amazon businesses and stuff like that, and we help them kind of diversify their traffic by using different methods, such as mostly Facebook, Instagram, and testing a few new things with YouTube as well.

Cool. So you basically are using different advertising platforms to drive attention to physical products so that they have their own customer bases that are independent of sales channels.

Correct.

Would you kind of go a little bit more into the micro of how you might look at an opportunity and say, this looks like a candidate to be advertised here, and we might build a funnel that looks like this. What is your process for examining the opportunities when you're working with a new client?

So a lot of times we like to work with existing companies that are maximizing or leveraging aggressively one channel. Right. Whatever channel that may be. And they're not diversified and they're not thinking the way that we could be thinking. Right. So maybe it's a product in skincare that we could potentially build a free plus shipping product for and acquire customers in that regard. Or maybe it's A product in health that we could potentially build a quiz that talks about leaky gut or how to get ripped abs or something like that, that we could engage new customers in that funnel and then take them back out and give them a full experience and then take them into whatever e commerce platform they're working with. Or digital. Because we do a lot of stuff with people in digital as well. The biggest thing that we kind of focus on is is there an opportunity to acquire a customer at a very affordable rate with social, really more so meaning Instagram and Facebook.

So let's dive into that even more. When you're looking at advertising and acquiring that customer, it sounds like, and I know from your experience, you kind of do things quick and dirty, you try and get them up as quickly as possible, but how do you determine what the campaign is going to look like? So if we're working with somebody in the beauty space who's just used to collecting sales because people type in beauty cream on Amazon, they show up and they don't have to work that hard to get that customer, how are you then backing out and saying, all right, we're going to advertise here with this offer and this is how we're going to find out if this is a winner or not.

So really a lot of those people are acquiring customers almost, let's just say they're Amazon people because you tend to work a lot with those people. So it'd be a good example. They're acquiring customers and they really, at the end of the day, don't know how much that person cost, how they're acquiring them, or how to even really get their email address in a lot of instances. Right. So we work with them and kind of reverse engineer their top competitors. We essentially try to go and funnel, hack and see what's out there. Anywhere from the top hundred million dollar company to the scrappy guy that's just crushing it on his own and kind of come up with our own hypothesis and our own idea of what we can create to not only acquire the customer, but start building out that good experience so we can maximize our average transaction through email as well. A lot of the times we try to work with them in using their if they have an existing list and try to build custom audiences and different things like that. A lot of times they don't have that and we kind of have to start from scratch. And it's a lot of our ad guys going in there and doing their due diligence and setting up the proper targeting and going very quick. And dirty. We don't like to run around and try to build the most beautiful thing in the world. We really go, MVP. Can we go out and spend 2, 3, 4, $5,000, get data and understand what this customer cost to acquire? Can we lower that price? Can we increase our average order value by adding an order bump or by adding an upsell? And what does all that kind of look like? And then we kind of start to really create the funnel right at the beginning. It's really just throwing things out there because you don't know, I don't know, we don't know. So for anyone who says, oh, we can do this, this, this, you're kind of lying because you've not done it right. So we just kind of come in and go, well, let's just throw some money at this and collect back data and see what happens then. Too many people look at it on an immediate, like today, I got to get this ROI back. But it's a data driven decision that you have to make, not an ROI decision at the beginning.

Yeah, I'm always surprised that people are willing to spend money to rank a product for a keyword, but they're not willing to spend money to get leads to get the data that they need in order to make an offer profitable. It always surprises me.

That's crazy.

Let me ask you this. What does a typical funnel look like in terms of advertisement to transaction? I know you're advertising usually on social platforms. I think you often either send them to just ugly sales pages or sometimes squeeze pages. But would you just walk us through some examples of what a typical funnel would look like?

So I'll give you two examples. Let's start with one. This would be something that you would use on Instagram. So if you wanted to go out and spend some money on Instagram, you would go out, you would find influencers that have good pages. 50,000, 100,000, a million, whatever the case, go to multiples or one person and you buy a drop from them. Right? You let them send your message with a link in bio for a price. Okay. The biggest thing going on Instagram is that you just want to acquire the email. So it's going to be some quick and dirty guide. It's not going to be a discount to some other thing. It's not going to be anything else but some quick, simple, hey, give me your email and you can read this one page PDF. It doesn't need to be three, four, five pages. It's instant, it's quick and there's not A lot of thinking, because think about it, you're on your phone, you're browsing, you're probably at the gas station, whatever, sitting in someone else's car, going through stuff. You see something you like, you give your email. You kind of want to read that through fast. You're not going to put 25 minutes of reading onto your phone. Right? Because this is a whole mobile experience. So from there you can add more steps if you wanted to, because you already acquired that, like potentially a two, three minute video that sells something very affordable, talking like one to seven dollars. Or you can just let it go and then take the experience to email and then have an email sequence sell something for you, whatever that case may be.

So you're actually working directly with the.

Instagram celebrities to do some sort of a drop or advertisement directly to their audience, sending them to a squeeze page and giving them something small. Either a quick read, a quick sales presentation, a quick piece of content, and then either trying to have the transaction made there or you're having the transaction done via building up a relationship via email.

Correct.

Now, what is the reason you're going straight to Instagram celebrities rather than just using the advertisement platform there?

It's cheaper.

It's much cheaper for you to do it.

So with Instagram ads, Instagram ads are more expensive than Facebook ads. But if you use influencers, you not only are getting a more affordable rate because you can buy in bulk and I mean, I can't be specific on the pricing because you can buy anything from $300 one time to $1,000 one time to five. Right. So it just depends on who your niche, who you're talking to and all that kind of stuff. But you're getting the social proof. Hey, I've got 600,000 people on my page. I think this guy's great, or I think this brand is amazing. Check it out, guys. This is an awesome guide that's helped me xyz. Okay, cool. I follow all your pictures. I like you a lot. I'm gonna go check out the guide. So you get a lot more engagement, which gets you more conversions to that landing page, which gets you more emails.

And how are you working those relationships? It sounds laborious to be trying to contact.

It takes us hours. Yes, it sucks. Like straight up, it's terrible. It's very unfun. But once you have them, they don't go away. Right. Like you have all those relationships in your little Instagram app and you can just kind of talk to them and then it just kind of Turns mathematical. What I've noticed is that a lot of people that have really high engaging Instagram pages in the entrepreneur space and in the fitness space don't live in the US So there's a lot of that back and forth. It is manual stuff like that. But it doesn't matter to us because I want to personally on this side and I think people should think like this. I want to have the most amount of relationships with the most amount of influencers I can do, I can create. Because at that point I'm effectively an influencer. If I can go to 15 people and go, hey, I need you all to do these drops, boom. I can get 25,000 emails in a day. Instead of trying to figure out some targeting or this or that or the other, I already know a lot of stuff. So if I need things, I can start collecting kind of like my influencer base. And also on another selfish tip, we work with influencers that don't know what they're doing online. And we go, hey, because they ask us a lot of times, so what do you guys do with this stuff? Oh, we build membership sites or we sell e commerce products or whatever the case may be. So we tend to work with them as well. So it's kind of like a double edged sword for us.

What does the squeeze page look like when you're sending somebody from an influencer over to some sort of an opt in? I'm assuming it's probably graphical and very simple if it's coming from endorsed traffic. But you tell me what it looks like.

So we've tested a bunch of stuff. We've tested video. We've tasted beautiful stuff with three, four, five paragraphs on there. The easiest and the best thing. People won't do it because they feel like it's, oh no, that can't be true. Is like five sentences, hey, check this awesome thing out. It's a guide to benefit, Benefit, benefit. Download it now. That's it. And it's either a image of a book, sometimes not even that, an image of a product, sometimes not even that. It's the simplest. Like think about it as if like, like five years ago you made a landing page. That's what it looks like.

And is that because it's mostly mobile and mobile is kind of still behind the curve a bit?

I think so. Because it wouldn't convert at all if you ran traffic to it like that, that wouldn't convert at all. Also, a lot of the heavy lifting is done in the image of the actual. It's not done in the landing page, but it's done effectively in the ad. Right? So the ad is the little picture that the influencer is going to post, and it's going to have some topic. Hey, check these guys out. This helped me lose seven pounds in six days. This is the ultimate guide. I got my friends to give this to you guys for free. It's only going to be out for the next four hours because they normally make money with it. Boom. So that's one thing. Or if you want to do beauty, hey, this is the makeup line that I use. Whatever the case, this is how you can lose wrinkles in your eyes because you look puffy, because you like to party all the time. But this is how you can look amazing and still hit the clubs every day, whatever, right? It's just very simple. They're endorsing you and they're saying why they like you and the relationship they have with you. And then it goes to like, hey, you clicked here for a reason. Download this.

Okay, got it. So at least from endorser traffic, when we're using something like Instagram, we're sending them to one of those simple landing pages. Most of the heavy lifting is done via the ad. Can we take that same squeeze page and scale that over to running cold Facebook traffic, running solo drops to that? Will that approach work on the same squeeze page? Because if so, I'm, like, ready to hang up this call and start implementing right now, because that seems very scalable. So is that how it works?

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, you might have to tweak the copy and focus on a little bit different conversion stuff, like copywriting wise on this. But.

If something's working on those drops, you can almost guarantee that it's going to work on Facebook. But then you got to figure out targeting and stuff like that.

In that side, because here you're going to a group that you know the targeting about. So on the other one, you just have to kind of tweak the targeting a little. But, yeah, it will convert.

So let's talk about that, because my brain immediately start celebrating right now. Like, I can see wins all over the place. Like, cool. I can throw up a simple squeeze page. I'm going to run some endorser traffic to it. We'll get a few thousand leads. We'll make some money. It may or may not be profitable. Then I'm going to scale that over to Facebook. But I know from experience that 9 out of 10 times the campaign is not profitable from the beginning, and people lose energy and they stop focusing on it rather than scaling it. But there's leads are affordable, so what do you do in that realm?

So in the past six months, we've been doing a lot, not only with our own stuff, but with other people as partners and clients and stuff like that. And the reality is, man, people are lazy and people don't give things.

A real try, right? Like they'll go out and they'll spend some money and it didn't work out that month and they're like, this is stupid. I'm never gonna do this again. I hate Facebook, I hate the Internet. But then you break down like what happened in that campaign? And it's really you that didn't do a good job, right? Like, let's say that this, this campaign worked on Instagram and then you put it on Facebook and you tried it out and it was a two email sequence that just really did well and resonated with the people on Instagram. That's one demographic, that's really an age range. You're getting younger people out there. You're probably gonna be targeting different people on Facebook. You have to change it up. And it might suck for a month, it might not make you money, but it doesn't mean that it's not going to work. But people give up on that or say, no, I lost a thousand, two thousand, five thousand dollars. And that's where I get aggressive with people. And you know this because I did it at the event. I was like, dude, then you're not trying to run a business. Like, you're not trying to like really do anything. You're running around playing and you're not really willing to spend the money to get involved in this channel or to figure out a real campaign. Because the campaigns work and Facebook and these platforms want you to spend the money. They don't want you to lose it. It's just there's a lot of work that has to happen depending on the product. If it's digital, you've really got to have a very tight sequence on email and stuff like that. And if it's physical, you really need to know your cost and you really need to know what is going to create the experience that's going to get that person to buy again and again from you. Because a lot of times with physical products and stuff like that, people do that one off, right? Like they like this trinket, this thing, boom, it's a one off, right? So it's up to you to be like, well, should I put these people in subscription? Should I create content that like, engages them and like, I can sell them more. So I know my 30, 60, 90 day value per customer, but they don't do these things. They just put in 5k on an offer and it didn't convert and they go, this is stupid. I'm out.

So what numbers or what metrics are you looking for in order to know where to tweak or where to put your energy? Are you looking at total acquisition cost of a customer? Are you looking at lead cost? Are you looking at click cost? What are you examining to know I'm gonna have to focus more here to get this campaign to be a real winner?

So it depends on the. One of the biggest things that we focus on is average order value. Because it depends on what product, whether it's digital or physical or really what our goal is. We have one product that really all we care about is breaking even on the spend of that initial product. It's kind of a tripwire offer, so to speak. But our goal is to get people into a continuity there. So if we can make a dollar to lose $2, but we can put someone into a $30 a month membership site, that's all that we care about. So that's what we would focus on. There is, hey, are we not losing too much money on the front end with these products and stuff like that to get people on the back? If it was more of a digital product, we would focus on, all right, what's the. Probably like a webinar or something like that. What's the cost per registration costing us? And how much conversion do I need to have on the sales presentation to make sure that I'm not losing money? So they all have different things that you have to focus on. But overall, it's really the value. The biggest thing is what's our cost on the front and what's our value right after that cart? Then you can focus on other.

On more.

But really it's what's the cost at the beginning? What is this person cost to acquire and how much money is being spent here? And then how much money am I making when we're all said and done after this initial transaction?

The way that I would approach it, you can tell me if my thinking is warped at all, but the way that I look at it when we're doing this internally is I'm looking at lead cost. Because if I can build, if I can just get leads, if I can just. If I can affordably get people to sign up for my hook, it's really my job to sell them from there. And if I'm getting their email address, then I can try 100 different emails to try and get them to convert into a sale. But if I can get the leads, but they're not converting, that's my fault. If I can't get the leads at an affordable cost, then either my targeting is wrong or my hook is bad, or something is just not connecting. And that's where I need to focus. But I've always looked at it from the perspective of let's get the lead cost to where it needs to be and then like, we can scale this infinitely. Because I'm okay losing money for a while as long as I have the leads, because I'm going to be able to launch products to them. I can do giveaways to them. I can do a whole bunch of different things to them. I want you to tell me if your perspective is any different or if I'm. If you would tweak anything in my process.

So overall, I mean, that's really the real. The goal with everyone. We did have just recently an instance where we acquired. We did a bigger media buy with a publisher and we just bought leads through them. We acquired. It was like $5,000 for like 20,000 leads or something like that. You immediately are like, this is ridiculous. If this works, we're all getting Ferraris. Like, it's insane, right? Like, you're just freaking out about it. But as we saw, the lead quality was just garbage. I mean, the worst lead quality ever in the world. We also pay attention to lead quality. That's something that we've also noticed inside of doing Instagram things specifically. We were getting leads for 20, 30 cents and we thought they were terrible leads because they weren't buying immediately. But then we started testing, just sending them content for a week and then selling them something and it started to work, right? So a big thing to kind of keep in mind is like, where are you acquiring the lead and what kind of sequence is that going to need? Is that lead going to need to be nurtured enough to buy? With Facebook, it seems that people just buy, right? Like, you can just get them off of, like, their add out of looking at whatever they're looking at. They're going to jump into this scenario and boom, you can acquire a buyer quicker with Instagram. You do have to nurture them a little bit more.

And then with more bigger media buys, like going out and just buying remnant traffic on other pages and stuff like that, we have not had too much luck. But I Think it's because the campaigns just weren't 100% optimized.

How many different tests are you running at given time in order to find out if something is going to win? Because I can sit here and think about a thousand different ways that something might work, you know, and I tend to feel overwhelmed at like, well we could run this hook and this campaign and do this. How are you chunking it down into alright, we're gonna test this versus this and how many are you running against one another at a given time?

So that is more the specialty of my partner. But I know that he does, he's just kind of like OCD with it. He's running around doing probably like a test every other week, but he only tests one thing so he could test the headline and see how that converts and then he will go out and test different ad creative. Like you can't do too many tests at the same time because then you don't know where you're getting your date. Like what really changed the data.

That makes sense. I guess the perspective I'm coming from is I know a lot of people who run Internet businesses who have tried to develop their own independent traffic channels and after two tries they're like, well, I sent some traffic to a couple different squeeze pages and that didn't quote work. And then we ran it to an advertorial page to try and just get the sale. And that didn't quote work. And so we gave up. That's kind of the standard narrative of somebody who tries to do this on their own. So what are you doing differently to get it to work or how are you working with somebody to test enough to where it's profitable?

So really, I mean we kind of come holistically and just do everything and test every single aspect. So to give you an exact example, we were working with kind of a skincare company and we created some advertorials. We thought they would be amazing. Big money, let's do advertorial to retargeting all the way to then, you know, an offer. And that didn't work out. Then we tested the advertorials to email, specifically creating, putting the same advertorial and sending it on email. And every time we have advertorials go through email, sales just skyrocket. So now we've realized that creating advertorial based emails crush for certain brands. We didn't even know that before, but it did not work at all. We were spending way too much money and we were not acquiring the Customer on just Media. But we had these assets and we're like, well, where else can we put the asset and test it out to see if it works? And it ended up working out on email. So we're always just kind of like tweaking things and trying to make sure that everything talks to each other. I think. I think something that we've realized recently is that, I mean, I hate to sound like it's a lot of work, but it is like, you know, like it is a ton of work. It's running ads, building a business. Yeah. I mean, it's some. I hate to say it, it's shitty sometimes. It is. It's not. It's not the easiest thing that you hear online with like, oh, we're gonna do this, this, and then boom, everyone has money and, you know, $100 million. Like, there's a lot of work that goes into it. There's a lot of work that goes into the email campaigns. There's a lot of work that goes into creating the funnels and testing. Your first product might have bombed. It doesn't mean that the offer is not a good offer on the back end. It just means that people didn't resonate with your first tripwire or your first guide or maybe your quiz sucked. You know what I mean? You have to tweak it and maybe you can acquire customers at an okay, right there. But then you realize that really where you're maximizing customers is in email marketing. And then you realize that you can add something.

Like an order bump to increase your average order value. It's every day. It's not just one thing. It's consistently testing and being inside.

Of that and saying, hey, what do we need to do to consistently just generate more leads and bring more people in? Because the one thing that is the most obvious is that leads are the lifeblood of any business. Right. But then it's also relationship that you maintain with them. If you just acquire them, send them some stuff, and you don't know what you're doing next, the lead is out. They're going to go out and they're going to go buy Johnny's product or this chair or that skin product. They don't have loyalty unless you build it. So that's something that a lot of people don't do.

I'm not as not doom and gloom, but I have a little bit of a more positive spin on it than you do. Because I know that if I can acquire the leads, then I'm in business forever. Because regardless of what Happens on Amazon or wherever you're collecting orders. If you've got the leads, you can sell to those leads. Like you always have something in your control to where you can throw up an ugly sales page and hit send and at least take orders. So I am looking at it from the perspective of how do I get as many leads as possible and then I'm in business forever. Even if I've, you know, if everything else goes away, at least I can have the leads and market to those leads and make enough to eat. Yeah, I look at it more like.

That, but you're a really good marketer. So I mean that's kind of like you have a sword in the fight, right? Most people, you know, the average person listening is not as advanced as you are. So they have to kind of think, I think they should take like one or two more steps thinking like, hey, how do I create a better relationship with this person so I make sure that this lead stays active, right. Or if they do become inactive, how do I create like a re engagement campaign and stuff like that?

So in the typical context of someone taking a lot of sales from Amazon and selling a lot of physical products, what are the first steps that you're usually using or working with that business owner to do in order to get them the second channel built up? Because I know you do this for clients, so what are you usually doing in order to start building up that separate channel and get that person transitioning over to a multi channel system?

The first thing is we kind of evaluate what their products are, what their goals are, what they have that we can put in a different channel. Because a lot of times specifically even with Amazon people, they'll be selling 76 items and they all sell like hotcakes on Amazon, which is amazing. But the reality is that probably two or three of them might sell on Shopify or on whatever online channel you put outside. Right. So we really try to evaluate like what's the best products that we can take from here. We don't necessarily have to take them all to create a little brand online. And then from there, is there anything that we can use to build, let's say a free plus shipping funnel? We do work with those a lot in the physical space because they work right. It's easier and it's more exciting for you to receive something for free, just pay the shipping than it is to give an email for a guide or something like that. So a lot of times those products work and if they don't have those products available, we kind of Go back and go, all right, well, is there anything from your manufacturer or for the relationships that you have that you could acquire? Can we get 500 units? Can we get 1,000 units? A lot of times it's even, can we go quick and dirty and go find something at Costco or go check something out on ebay and see if we can kind of start selling this online and if that can get us the initial free plus shipping.

It's more like a small tripwire type of an offer to try and get them in the door to become a customer, is what you're saying.

Yeah.

Okay. And then you're building a campaign around selling that free plus shipping offer to get them into continuity. Where are you usually looking at how you're going to market that or where you're going to advertise it?

We're always going to start on Facebook.

Tell me why.

It's just what we know best. And it's just what we know that is kind of like our wheelhouse in this particular time. And if it's a different depending on the product, we're either going to start Facebook or we're going to start on Instagram, but we're not going to deviate too much from those. If it was a crazier product. We have experience in native buying like Taboola and those kinds of ads, but those are harder as well, depending on the product. So we're just kind of more in the wheelhouse of starting off with Facebook and Insta and then potentially scaling out from there. But there's a lot of scaling you can do within those. Right. Because you don't have to have just one funnel if one starts to work. A lot of times people go, hey, you should make another one of these. And then you have the emails. And so there's a lot of next steps after you have a successful sales funnel.

So you've got the tripwire product, the low end dollar, the low end one to seven dollar offer that you're going to sell. I'm guessing it's a simple sales page, sending to an order button and you're advertising that on Facebook and you're just, I think originally you're just trying to get some data, like what are our clicks cost? Did we get any sales? If we got sales, are they joining our continuity program and you're just kind of getting a sniff test. Is that accurate?

Yeah, a lot of times we don't even have a continuity program or anything like that. That's more when we have something running that works, we start to test hey, would people jump on a recurring. But really initially it's just what are clicks costing? How much are we acquiring a customer for? Are we or are we not? Or is this completely bombing? So it's just really getting that information. Do they like this product? Are we getting a lot of clicks but not a lot of sales? What's going on? So it's really just getting the initial pieces of data.

It seems like tracking everything would be absolutely vital to making sure that you know what's working or what's not working and where you need to put your emphasis. Tracking. Click through data. Tracking sales data. Are you tracking all that and if so, how?

I would have to get my partner who's like the ad specialist on that because I do not play with ads. I stay on the strategic side of the funnel and, and emails and stuff like that.

So when somebody brings to you the results of a campaign, how are you evaluating if it's a winner or not?

So we always jump on calls and the biggest thing is our cost per lead and then our average order value.

Got it. All right, so you're looking at the lead value, which in this case would be a sale value. Right. If somebody purchased a trip buyer overall.

Yeah, we're really just trying to get a lot of our stuff is based to just create buyers.

And then if you've got a campaign that you feel like has the acquisition cost that you want, what are you doing then to look at? All right, I know how we're going to make this a really profitable campaign. Are you then outlining what upsells are going to be there?

What's the scaling process look like from there?

So he normally steps in and starts to scale the ad budget and then we start to think, okay, what can we do to increase the average order value? That's where we come in with, alright, let's do an order bump and let's see if that will increase the average order value. Let's add a second upsell. This first initial sale is going really well. Maybe we can add another OTO which is a one time offer at a continuity. If it's a physical product, maybe they'll pay recurring for 45 or 60 days of this or maybe they'll pay for a digital continuity. Let's say you're in fitness or something like that and you can get people into that. So that's where we start to test.

All those things and usually it is in that order. If it's physical we go, hey, will they pay for this product and recurring? Let's Test that out. If it's not, we go, hey, maybe they'll pay for something digital. But we always also first start with an order bump for something between 7 and $17.

So I feel the need to speak freely on something. And it just feels like.

To most people, this comes across as there is way too many options of what you could do in order to really make this simple enough. It makes sense to me as a marketer to just go get data and then figure it out from there. Find out what your lead cost is, find out what it costs to acquire a customer, slap something together. And you showed examples at our tribe summit of some pretty ugly landing pages, if I could could say so myself. You admitted that they were really ugly and they were profitable. And it makes sense to me to just start really small and scale from there. But to the average person, this seems like way too many options. So how are you making the decisions of what to scale and how to take an offer from point A to point B?

So let's make it super easy for everyone listening and let's say that they want to test one thing out, right? Let's say in the dog space, just to give an example, right? You would go out and you would find a necklace or a bracelet, a T shirt, whatever that says I love my dog or something similar. And you would give that for free. For free plus shipping, right? So just pay $4.95 shipping and handling, and you have this all day. So you get that. Then the immediate upsell on that, maybe potentially the order bump would be, hey, if you want to know how you can cure your dog's bad breath, get this guide at $7. That will increase your average order value. And then after that, you take them to one more potential offer. Maybe it's dog treats, whatever it is that you sell, I don't know. But that's it. It's just three pages you're effectively removing. When you create a free plus shipping funnel, you're creating everything except for a sales page. So you're actually making it kind of easier on yourself. You're giving a product and you're saying, hey, check out this product. Here's the benefits. It's free. Just pay shipping. And then you're taking them to, hey, I know that you like this. Here's a product maximizer, so to speak. Would you like to buy this for XYZ price? That's all you have to focus on. And then it's obviously running the ads.

Got it.

And then you're just looking at, okay, how do we get this customer value up, how do we turn this into a home run?

From the fourth quarter, you're trying to get your cost per lead down and then you're trying to get your average order value on that cart up. And that's all the math you should care about at the beginning.

What do you consider.

A winner in terms of how do you know when you have won?

If you're getting two times ROI on your cpl, you're pretty good two to three times. So in physical product you would probably want to get like if you're spending $5 and making 15, you're good to.

Go because that's enough where you know that you can scale it to multiple channels, buy all the traffic you want.

Yeah, you haven't even started, you haven't even started to try to optimize it for conversions and stuff like that. Also something that we've kind of talked about internally and what we've noticed is that if an offer, and it sounds super, super low, but if an offer is getting about 2 to 3% conversion on cold traffic, you have a really good offer.

And when you say conversion, do you mean an opt in or do you mean a purchase of a tripwire?

A purchase of a tripwire.

All right, and you've seen that happen. That seems really high to me.

Yeah, we have, we have two of them doing that now, but they're super scalable. Right. So I mean, even at, Even at a 1% level, you, you good. So I would think, and it's kind of, this is why it's so hard to give them exact numbers because your product might cost seven and not five. But if you're getting a three times roi, because you have to include, you know, in E Commerce, specifically your cost of goods, you should be pretty good there.

Let me ask you this, for the person who's listening is like, this is a lot of work, which we've admitted that it is. How big of a team should they expect to have in order to be able to implement their own funnel?

Three people.

And what people do?

Someone for customer service to give them a good customer service experience. Because you could go really off the wheels with that and give them a bad one. And then you're gonna have people that hate you. And then you should have someone that's gonna be running ads and focused on ads, and then someone who is building the funnel and running and doing copywriting. That's it. Three people. And they're just working on that.

That's actually a relief because that's actually a Lot smaller than I thought you were going to say. So that's interesting. Now, I know that you do this for people. Tell us a little about how you work with clients, what your agency does. Because I know some people are going to want to be like, please do this for me.

So we have three capacities and where we work for people, one of them is strictly consulting. We will help you on.

Crafting your own product funnel to lead acquisition Funnel. Right. And it's just a month to month. You can kind of cancel anytime. We can do it for you. Okay. And then we do it for you. And then we also have a month of consulting to show you how to. How to buy the media. And then we have a. Which is kind of select, but we have our partner program where if you're an influencer or if you have a business that's doing pretty well and you're looking to move it into another channel, we could potentially talk about the possibility of becoming kind of partners and doing profit shares and stuff like that, where we would take over everything for you. We would run the media, we would do the funnels, we would do the email marketing. We do everything. You just do what you're doing on your end. And we split profits on this particular sales channel.

And how do people follow you? How do people get a hold of you or find what you put out there online?

The easiest way is to send me an email. It's very simple. It's workwithlosemail.com or Snapchat, which is Los Silva, because I don't have a Facebook, which is a whole different story for another episode. But yeah, so Los Silva S I L V A on Snapchat or WorkWithLosmail.

Lois, I know this is a huge pain point for a lot of people who sell online and building up their own channels. So I appreciate you coming on and illuminating the experience a bit for us. Thanks for hanging out with us on Freedom Fastlink.

Thanks for having me, man. Excited.

Building up your own funnel or your own sales process is a business all on its own. I am surprised at people's willingness to partner with a channel like Amazon, but not being willing to spend the time to build up their own audience, even if it is just building up email sequences so they can sell their other products and services. It takes time. It takes investment. You have to be willing to put in the grind just like you'd put in the grind on any other sales channel. Now here's what I recommend that most people do. As we talked about with los, keeping it simple is a Great way to get some data, find out what's working and what needs improvement. My recommendation, pick one traffic channel and pick what's most important to you, leads or sales. That answers a lot of questions. Because if you just want customers, then your job is is to put up a sales page that gets something out there, some sort of an offer out there. I don't care if you're going from blog posts to sales page or if you're just doing a very simple plus shipping offer, get something simple out there. Some of the examples that Lowe shared at our Tribe summit were uglier than you would expect, and he admitted this, but they were working. So if you get something out there and then you drive traffic with the right targeting, using Facebook or whatever your preferred traffic channel is, that's a great way to start. The other option is to use influencers as your paid traffic source, Send them to an opt in page and then communicate to them via email. Just pick what is your traffic channel and what is the action that you want your customers to take? In my experience, I just want the lead, I just want the email because I'm an okay email copywriter or I have people on staff who will write them. As a result, I know if somebody gives me their email address, there's a high percentage that at some point they're going to become a customer. Get this, guys. Even if you only did half of this, if all you did was build up leads and send those leads to Amazon or wherever you're currently collecting orders, that is a huge step forward compared to what most people are doing, which is just taking the traffic that they're getting from Amazon. So if all you did was focus on getting the leads, you could send them over to Amazon and then if something happens, you can put up an E commerce site and hit send and take sales. So many people miss this. But if you've got the leads, if you've got the audience, you will always be in business. The example I like to talk about is Shreds. They're a supplement company that I don't like very much. I don't like their marketing very much, but they have a huge Instagram following and that's how they built most of their business. So as a result, no matter what happens, they can always put up something on Instagram and have eyeballs to a sales page, no matter what happens. So if you've got the followers, if you've got the email addresses, if you've got people that will follow you, no matter where you go, you'll always be in business and that's what I would recommend your focus be to really get independent of Amazon and at least start taking some sort of action. Based on the content of this podcast episode, LOS also comes to a lot of our backroom meetings and goes deeper into the funnel process and works with members of our Mastermind to help them build up these processes. If you have a business that is doing at least a million dollars a year, or you have a net worth of a million dollars and up, I'd like to invite you to apply for the back room. You can go to freedomfastlane.com mastermind and see the application, the qualifications there. As always, if you found value in this episode, please share it with an entrepreneur who would benefit from hearing it. I appreciate listening to Freedom Fast Lane and I will see on the next show.