Danny Iny: Get Paid With No Product, No List, and No Ads

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What's up, fastlaners? Ryan here. And today we're going to talk about how to make a whole bunch of money fast. How's that for a hypey intro? Hey, hey, look. I think a lot of people make this entrepreneurial game, or dare I say the make money game, way too hard and way too long and way too complex. And I found in my own life that when I cut out all of the noise, I tend to do better, make more and help more people. It's kind of why Freedom Fastland has been successful, because we at least attempt to strip out all the noise, give you the stuff that you should do, and then you'll just do that. Well, today I'm gonna be joined by my buddy Danny Enie. He's kind of helping me cap off a little miniseries we've been doing here on the show where we're talking about building audiences and monetizing those audiences. A few weeks ago, we talked with my buddy Scott Volker, who shared the experience about him testing an offer to his audience where he hadn't even made the course yet. He did a quick little announcement to his list that he was thinking about making some. Some content of a course and made a whole bunch of money. And then he got paid to make the content. That's a great way to start a business, right? You just have cash up front before you ever do anything. We also talked about how to build a business around this from soup to nuts. So if you want to systemize this and grow into a business, you can do that from beginning to end. And today we're going to be talking a little bit deeper into testing offers, what you should price it at. And Danny even goes into, what do you do if you don't have an audience? Could you skip the process of building an audience? And we differ a little bit in our approach, but we wrestle with that idea of what if you're just starting out and you have no audience and you just wanted to get cash in the door to start your business and to start getting feedback on your courses. Well, you know, I tested this recently. I have an audience, obviously. But just recently I share the story a little bit further in the podcast, where I had been kicking around a course idea for a good year or so, and I had shared and talked about it here on the show, and I've wanted to do an investment course where we talk about making your first million, investing that million and protecting that and shielding it from taxes and turning it into passive cash flow. And I did a quick and dirty Launch of that to a small group of people and with no affiliates, no advertising budget, at no sales letter, not really even trying to ram it down anybody's throat, doing a little test launch brought in about $100,000 in revenue. Now, is that a duplicatable process? It is. In fact, I didn't even do it the right way, the quote, right way, but I made a whole lot more money than if I had done nothing at all. And that's what Danny and I talk about in this podcast. In this episode, we talk about how to reverse engineer. That. That's not even the right word. Not reverse engineer, just engineer it. Just like how could you go out tomorrow and collect cash for something that doesn't even exist yet and then put it into action and get all of your mistakes out of the way so that you can then build on top of it and have a course that you can, or maybe you might even choose not to sell it over the long term. Now, I want to give you a heads up. This was a real quick and dirty podcast, so the audio on this one isn't the best, but there are a ton of gold nuggets in here that are sure to put money in your bank account if you decide to utilize them. So enjoy today's chat with Danny Enie. Hey, fastlaners Ryan, Daniel Moran here, and today I'm joined by Danny Enie. Captain Enie, what's going on?

Hey, Ryan, I'm excited to be here. It's been a little while since we've spoken.

So Danny and I met in the Philippines. He's a good friend of mine. And Danny, I like the way that you put it in a recent video where you said, a lot of people in this industry say they're friends, but you and I actually are friends. We had kids. I almost said we had kids together.

Danny and I have adopted a small child from a third world country together. But we, we've been friends for several years. We actually met in the Philippines and one of, one of the reasons I wanted to have him on today is because we talked a lot in, in the last few episodes of Freedom Fast Lane about testing offers, about getting things out there quickly, about avoiding the.

Workload that goes into, you know, getting everything ready and then you have a launch and nothing happens. How do you avoid that and get profit and feedback coming in really quickly? And Danny, right before we started recording, you were starting to tell me about a mutual friend of ours that we met in the Philippines that kind of followed through on. On that process. So I interrupted you and said, let's save this for the podcast. So to kick off, why don't you start with that story?

Sure.

So the guy's name is Nathan Lau. We affectionately refer to him as Bruno Mars because he looks an awful lot like Bruno Mars.

He does.

But he teaches people who want to become accountants how to prepare for their CPA exams. That's his business. And he'd been building this audience for a really long time and he'd been creating content and kind of going through the grind of building an audience or information type business without seeing a ton of results. He had this idea that I've got to get to some imaginary far off milestone. It's kind of vague, you don't know quite where it is, but I've got to work and get there before I can make money. And we were just talking in the Philippines. We were having a drink one evening and I told him I would just take a different approach. You've already got people who are interested in what you have to say. And he's like, yeah, but I've got to build this giant course out and there's so much I need to cover and lessons and modules and homework. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down, let's chunk it down quite a lot. And this conversation was a couple years ago, so I might be paraphrasing, but I basically told him, what is the minimum viable outcome that you can deliver to someone that you can teach them how to accomplish that they would be happy to pay for? And he thought about it and he said, well, it would be this, this and that. I said, all right, why don't you just tell people that I think this is something that people want. You know, I've been asked, people have been asking for this stuff. He's like, yeah, I get emails all the time. I was like, why don't you just put an email out to people saying, people have been asking me for this. So I'm thinking about teaching it, but I don't want to go to the trouble of building a big elaborate course, which is a lot of work if I don't know that people want it. So I'm going to deliver a quick pilot of the class. I'm going to accept a limited number of students. They're going to get in at a very discounted rate in exchange for their feedback, and I'm going to deliver to them live. It's going to be rough around the edges, but it's going to be cool. We're going to teach some good stuff. You're going to have some access to me in order to get extra support, and we're going to have a blast. If it goes well, maybe I'll turn into a full course. And so we just had that conversation, and it was over drinks and went on to have more drinks and forgot about the conversation. And it just stuck in my mind. And I don't remember if it was weeks or months later, but I just followed up with him. I was like, hey, how did that ever go? And he was like, oh, yeah, I did it, and I made it $5,000 in 24 hours.

That's pretty good. Good for him. I completely agree with that approach. I think most people make this way too complicated, and I call it the Golden Turd. People sit there polishing and polishing and polishing this Golden Turd, and they don't know that it's a turd because they haven't released it to the marketplace and got feedback on it yet. And people would save such a heartache and headache if they were just to test offers really quickly out to the marketplace and get feedback on them. So would you talk us and walk us through kind of the process of. There's a lot of people out there who either know how to build a list or have been sitting on an audience for a long time, but that muscle of going out and just asking for the sale or testing what's there so they can start monetizing that list, that hasn't been built up yet. So how do you walk clients and customers through a process that gets them.

To move from kind of untapped potential on their list to profitability? How do you. How do you walk somebody through that?

Sure. So let's. We can do the whole step by step, but can I share a metaphor first, just to kind of wrap it all around?

No, you are not allowed to share metaphors here on Freedom Fast Lane.

Those are. Those are no metaphors. They're forbidden.

Correct. Only similes.

All right, well, let's see if I can squeeze this in.

Okay, cool.

So. So, Ryan, you live in Austin, I live in Montreal. If you were to come and visit me, you would get in an airplane, and the airplane would take off, and a while later it would land in Montreal. It would probably connect somewhere because there's no direct flights from Montreal to anywhere in the world, unfortunately. But you can be reasonably certain that you're going to end up exactly where it says on your ticket, even though, and a lot of people don't realize this, the airplane is not pointing in the right direction. Most of the time. Most of the time it's off course, but the airplane pilot is making these little course corrections that make sure that you're going to land in the right place. Now let's compare that to, let's pretend you were a cartoon and you didn't have an airplane. And so you have like a roadrunner kind of idea. You build this giant catapult and point it at Montreal and you strap yourself in and shoot yourself off, even if it's only off by like 2/4 of a degree or something. You're not going to land in Montreal. You're going to land pretty far off because the further you're trying to go, when you're a little off course, the further off course you're going to land. And so I want to explain the step by step of how do you figure out what people want, launch it, etc. But implicit in what I'm going to explain is the course correction ability that you have with an airplane that you don't have with a catapult. And that's really, really important because you can have the best set of steps to. But if you just follow these steps, lock yourself in, and then hope to God that you're going to have a profitable launch, 18 months later, you're probably going to fail. So that's what these steps are built on. Do something. Get really rapid feedback so you can course correct. So none of the steps have to be perfect. So the very first thing you need to do, and you can do this with a giant audience, if you have one, you can do it with even just a small group of people that you know professionally, if you don't have a list at all, but you've got your audience, whatever that audience might be, you want to figure out, well, what do they want relating to your expertise? And you may already have a good idea of what you think they want. And usually I'd say don't bother building something based on that because you want to validate further. But building a pilot is validating. So if you have an idea, that's a good start. If not, ask them. That can be through a survey. If there are a large number of people, it can just be by getting on the phone, doing some private coaching calls that you do as a gift to see what questions they're asking, or even not as a gift. So you have questions they're willing to pay for. So you figure out, okay, here are the things that people are asking me for help with, and you want to distill that down to Two things. What is the core problem and what is the core solution? The core problem is usually not very hard. If you're helping people with something, then you understand their challenges fairly well. The solution is where people kind of go off the rails. Because I'm sure a lot of people hearing this have heard of the curse of knowledge, that we know our subject matter so well that we want to throw in everything plus the kitchen sink in a solution to give people to basically make them experts in what we do. They don't want to be experts in what we do. They just want to solve their problem. So here's the analogy that I really like. Imagine you are getting on a plane from New York to Chicago. It's about a 2 hour, 2 hour, 15 minute flight. Just as you strap in your seatbelt, you start talking to the person sitting next to you and you really hit it off. It turns out they are your perfect ideal customer and they are in desperate need of your help. And you really want to help them. You've got the two until you land to teach them things that will make a difference for them in their lives. So what would you teach in those two hours? Think about that. And answering that question, that's going to come down to what is the solution that you should be proposing? What should you be teaching? And that is a really good way of limiting the scope. And then you literally write that down on half a page, a page. You don't need more detail than that. And you're going to reach out to the people that you want to serve, whether it's your audience, whether you have a giant list, whether it's just a small group of people, and you're going to talk to them one by one and basically tell them, hey, you know, a lot of people have been asking me for help with this topic. So I'm thinking I'm going to put together a quick course, a pilot course. That's the language I like to use. A pilot course where I'm going to be teaching this stuff. And it's a pilot. I'm trying this out for the first time. So I don't want to build something elaborate if I don't know that people want it. And so I'm only accepting a very small number of people because I want to see how people cope with the material. I'm going to work with them very closely, one on one to answer their questions, make sure they get support. And that's not just important for them, it's important for you because you don't want to take A course and make it permanent and sell it to a thousand people and realize there are all these inefficiencies, because then you're going to get a thousand questions, and that's just the kiss of death. So you're going to give it to them at a huge discount. They're going to get lots of extra support in exchange for their feedback. There are only 10 spots, or whatever the number is. It's starting on this date. Do they want one of those spots? And they say yes, or they say no, or they say maybe, which really means no. Usually.

Both of those answers are good because you want a few things. First of all, best case scenario, yeah, you want to make sales. You want people to buy into your pilot. But if they're not going to buy into your pilot, you want to know now when you've spent two hours thinking about that plane ride and what you would teach and written out half a page of information about it. The cost of failure here is minimal. If a lot of people say no, you're like, all right, that's fine. Can you tell me why? I'm not trying to convince you. I just want to understand. Because I don't want to build this if people don't want it. Get the feedback, go back to the drawing board, do it again, even if it takes you 10 iterations, which I've never seen that be the case for anyone. How long is that going to take? A few days, a few weeks. No big deal. You get to the point where people say yes, they pay you money, you deliver your pilot. Again, you don't need a ton of detail because this is something that you know how to teach, right? It's your subject matter expertise. You have half a page of notes, and you sit down for a lesson. You just explain the ideas. You see where people get stuck, you see where the challenges are. You explain it, and you take those notes in terms of where they got stuck, where you need to fix it, and you add that to your curriculum. Go through the whole thing. You've got success stories, you've got case studies, you've got your lesson outline, your plan for what you're going to teach that you can then improve because you actually ran through it with a whole bunch of students. And then you can either. You basically have a choice of three options. You can say, and this is on three dimensions, right? Because there's. Did it make money? Did it help students? And did you like the process? And it's got to be yes to all three for it to be worth pursuing. So you can say, yeah, this was a home run. I'm scaling this up, I'm turning this into a big course. I'm going to sell thousands of spots in. Or you can say, maybe it was okay and I think I know how to make it better, but I'm not sure I want to validate. I'm going to do another pilot again. Quick, dirty, make some money, help some people. Not a lot of risk, not a lot of investment. Or you might say, actually this kind of sucked. I hated every minute of it and I'm so glad that I tested this quickly instead of committing myself for the next three years to do it.

I want to interrupt you there because that's so important, because that's a big sticking point for a lot of people is what if I get it wrong? What if people hate the content? What if insert. Well, the good news is if you do a pilot, any what if gives you an excuse to, you don't ever have to do it again if you don't want to. Or if you find out that you friggin love doing it, you can scale it as big as you want. But I want to ask you a question about price point here because I automatically, I automatically assume high end at this point. I don't really want any clients or customers that aren't willing to spend 5, $10,000 with any of my products or services. I know that's not the case for any, for everybody. So when you are advising someone to do a pilot that's only going to be 10 to 20 people, what do you work in price point with someone like that?

It's a great question. The answer is that it depends. So here's the super basic and super not at all precise math.

Let's say you're going to turn this into a finished product that you want to sell one day. One day it's going to be a standalone course. And you think, I think I want to charge $2,000 for that course because that's kind of where I peg the value, where the market's at. Okay, Ballpark, right? Let's say $2,000. So then we're going to see two things. First of all, the course is going to teach A through Z. The pilot's going to teach A through B. So that is, let's say it's 10% of the total outcome. So you take the $2,000, 10%, that's 200 bucks. And you say, but with the full course it's going to be people get the information, they get the support. Maybe I Have staff that helps them out, but they don't get a lot of individual time with me, whereas with this pilot, they get way more individual time. Let's say the access they get is worth five times as much as it will be with the course. This is super rough math, but if that's what you're thinking, $2,000, 10% of that is 200 bucks. Five times that is $1,000. Now you can do that and arrive at whatever you want. You might say that I'm going to deliver basically the same outcome that I would in the finished course, except that I'm going to do this in person, live working with someone. You can actually charge dramatically more for a pilot than you would for a course, because it doesn't have to be something that scales and that gives you a lot of flexibility. So it's really up to you.

I think your numbers are, are being conservative. I was just working with this on somebody yesterday, and we were going over, okay, how do we turn this into $100,000? You know, if, if we can just take 10 clients and charge $10,000 a pop, and we do that as a pilot, you know, can we, can we make that work? And we'll run a test and we'll find out, and that's exactly what will happen. This is a person who is following basically the exact same model that, that you were saying of, you know, I've got this list. I, I want to, I want to test this to my audience. I've kind of got these questions about how are we going to implement this? Well, let's do a test, and $100,000 will probably show up, and then we can make that moving forward. So the only thing I'd add in is when you are doing one of those tests or one of these pilots, I think you should err on the high end of things because that's where you're going to both maximize your profit and you're going to be incentivized to repeat this process.

I don't know. We kind of have different models on that, but I'd love to hear. We've talked about this privately before, so I'd love to hear back on this.

I agree and I disagree. So I disagree. No, that's not true. I don't disagree, But I think there are different perspectives when it comes to what you want to be doing on an ongoing basis. Some people want to work privately with a small number of people. They charge a lot of money. Some people have a message that they, they personally care about getting it out there to a lot of people.

For me, given the choice between working with 10 people who are each going to pay me $10,000 or 100 people who are each going to pay ME $1,000 if I can get the same outcomes for them and I know that sometimes it's apples and oranges, but if I can, I'd rather impact 100 people. That's just the kind of vision that I have. It's not what's right or what's wrong for everybody. And so in terms of the end game, I think it depends on what you want to do in the short term. I actually agree with you. I think it's better to err on the high end because yes, you want to be incentivized, yes, you want to make money, but from a purely educational standpoint, you want to create the best product that you can.

Technology, automation, all those things tend to be disintermediate. They're disintermediating factors, which means you are less conn to your student. If you're teaching something for the first time, people are going to be confused at certain points. Doesn't matter how good you are, you're not going to hit a home run every time. The first time you try it. When people are confused, I want you to see it in their face, I want you to hear it in their voice so you can fix it so you can get it right the next time. And if you do it in a. If you're going to charge $50 for an email course, they're just not going to reply to the email. You're not going to know where they're confused. You're just going to know they didn't get to the finish line.

Actually, regardless of whether someone ultimately wants to do something really premium and high end or more mass market in the short term, actually I do recommend you want to go as higher end as your context makes you comfortable with. For some people that'll mean I'm going to do some private coaching with 10 people for $200 each and they've never made more than $20 on something in their life and that' and if that's as far as your comfort zone will let you go, then great. But yeah, if you can do a small group and charge them many hundreds or many thousands of dollars, which is very practical in a lot of these contexts because these are the first people to get access to what you're teaching. They get a lot of individual attention. You can work with them to support them in achieving outcomes that you just Couldn't guarantee otherwise. I think it's totally worth it for them. It's very practical, and it allows you to create a much better business in the long term.

I 100% agree. I just did this, actually, 30 days ago, five weeks ago, I guess now, where I've been kicking around an idea for a course forever. And I'm sure you've heard the story a thousand times, Danny, where you have an idea and you've been kicking it around for. I had been kicking around for like a year, maybe more, and I was trying to get it perfect and just get everything right. And finally I was like, forget it. I'm just gonna get all my mistakes out of the way with the first group and give them a ridiculous discount and do exactly what we're talking about. And it hasn't been perfect. We're kind of halfway through the course, and there's people who are like, this is the best thing ever. And there's people who are like, you could use some help with massaging. And it's like, great. You know, that's. That's the point, to get those mistakes out of the way, and you give a little bit of extra attention to that person. But in the meantime, I launched that course, about $100,000 in revenue came in, and then we're gonna systemize that and get that into making it more expensive and serve more people long term. But I never would get to that point if I didn't get all of my mistakes out right away. Is that a story you hear a lot? You know, I've been sitting on this idea for a long time, and in the meantime, I'm making zero dollars by doing nothing.

I hear it a ton. I mean, I heard it from you when we first talked about this in the hotel in Austin a few months ago. But, yeah, I hear from people a lot. People have this. I'm not even sure what. Where exactly it comes from. People have this mentality where they need something to happen that makes it, like, kind of gives them permission to start selling something. So they need to hit, I don't know, this number of subscribers, or they need this proof from the market, or they need to build this product, or they need. Or they need. Or. And it's all excuses, right? Right. It's all kind of mental head trash that comes down to. For a lot of people, the dream of what you're going to create is beautiful, and you're afraid that the reality won't live up to it. And it might not on the first run, but that's what's cool about this piloting process? It's not supposed to, right? Nobody signs up for a pilot and says, oh, this sucks because it's rough around the edges. It's like, well, did you read the fine? Not the fine print, the big print. This is what I said it is. They don't. And people are usually super like, when people give you that feedback, they're not usually cranky about it. They're excited that they're able to live up to their end of the bargain where they're getting a discount in exchange for their feedback. It's like, look, I have meaningful feedback that I'm excited to share. I'm excited to help you make this into something huge.

I've often said that there is a big difference between feedback and failure. And we often cross wires there where people create this thing and then they get some feedback and they interpret it as, oh, this sucks, I have to go change the entire thing because I failed. When in reality, this kind of model or way of presenting it frees us up to use feedback as feedback because it's not failure, it's just feedback for us to improve it moving forward. My mentor Travis, who's been on the show before, beats this into my head and a lot of people's head of get it out there, get it tested in the marketplace and you can do it again or you can not, but you don't move anything forward by not getting the message out and testing that to the audience. But since you brought it up, let me ask you, what do you think? Is there a minimum sized audience before you follow a model like this?

Nope. Just plain and simple. No.

Well, if somebody doesn't have an audience, though, how could then somebody do it from scratch?

So what I would say, and I'm not talking about like, you know, you could run ads or you can do stuff to build an audience. Like, if you have no audience, what I would say is broaden your definition of what an audience is. An audience isn't necessarily a bunch of people who signed up for your email list. You have people who like you, who trust you, who respect you socially, personally, professionally. And if you want to get out there and teach something, if you have a solution to a problem, you didn't dream that into existence in an absence of any exposure to the problem, right? You've helped people with this problem, otherwise you wouldn't be equipped to help them with it now. So odds are that there are people in your circle, in your network who do have this problem and do need your help. And the idea here is not to become like an Amway salesman where you're calling up every person you know. It's like, let me talk to you about this cool opportunity and just, ugh, I don't want to talk to this person. It's not like that. It's like, find the five or 10 or 15 people that you know who are dealing with this problem. Call them up and just say, hey, you know, I've got this thing I want to talk to you about. Get your feedback, tell me what you think. I'm thinking about teaching a course about this because I think there's a real need. People keep coming to me with questions and help about this. How does that sound to you? Is that something you might be interested in? And they're either going to say, well, really one of two things. They're not going to say yes because you haven't given them enough. They can't say yes yet, but they'll either say no, or they'll say, I might be interested. If they say no, you say, okay, great, that's really helpful. Can you tell me why? And again, I'm not trying to convince you. I just, I want to understand so that I don't, you know, go down a blind alley here. And if they say maybe give them more information, tell them, well, you know, here's what I'm planning on teaching, here's what I'll cover, and I'm going to start on this day and there are 10 people who can get in because I'm only taking this many spots and this is the discounted price and etc. Etc. Do you want one of those spots? And then again, you know, yes, no, maybe, and you get to an answer. But these are kind of low pressure, easy conversations. And especially if you're going to go high end, which you go as high end as your subject matter and content and outcomes will justify.

You don't need a lot of people, right? I mean, there are a lot of people, especially if you have no audience, if you're just getting started, if you get. I actually had this conversation with someone who, she teaches writing and self publishing. And she was like, well, you know, for my pilot I could do a webinar and I'll charge $47 for it. And I was like, how are you ever going to do a meaningful volume or impact? How are you going to know if you're helping people? Why not rent a hotel for a weekend, get five people together, charge them $2,000 each, and they all leave with a manuscript ready to be published or something. I mean, you know, this is her subject matter to massage the specifics. But, you know, five people, anyone can get five people together and, you know, five people times $2,000, that's, that's, you know, that's not nothing.

So I can, I can hear a collective resistance point coming up in people's mind. I can actually smell the resistance point. And it's the idea of face to face sales or even phone sales. So could this be automated online? And if so, how?

It absolutely can.

There's always a trade off between, like, look, you're going to close more people on the phone than you're going to close in an email. Like, it doesn't matter how good of an email copywriter you are, right? You're just, you know, you're going to close more people on the phone. Now if you have the people on email, then that's great, you can close them and that's all good. And it's scalable in a way that phone is not. Right. I don't do phone sales. I have an audience and I have an email list and I do all that because it scales in a way that the phone doesn't. So if you've got no email list whatsoever, then you've got to make a decision, well, do I want a result quickly or do I want to build an email list and get a good result just a little bit further on? It's really about a choice, and you have both options. That said, you can't. Like, there's a really interesting piece of behavioral science research that a lot of, a lot of this is based on. Like, the reason this works is based on this research. So here's the core idea, and this is what trips people up. They feel like they need to have their course all built and polished because, hey, they're not experienced at selling stuff and it's hard to sell things. So they'd better get all their ducks in a row to make sure that they get it right. Right. That's kind of what's going on in the back of people's heads.

And they're right. It is hard to sell something. I mean, I'm sure, Ryan, you've heard the marketing truism. You know, someone who's already bought from you is eight times as likely to buy from you again than a stranger is to buy from you the first time. It's because they have a relationship with you. And so if you're starting from scratch and you have no experience selling, you don't have any of Those customer relationships, it's like you're playing with a severe handicap. But this piloting process levels the playing field, and it's because of something called the IKEA Effect. This is based on research that was done by professors at Harvard and Yale and Duke Universities. I know Dan Ariely led the team out of Duke, and I don't remember the names of the researchers from Harvard or Yale, but basically what they did is they got a whole bunch of people in a room and gave them something to build. And there were different iterations of this research. They did it with origami, like paper origami, to fold. They did it with LEGO stuff that they built and they built with. They built IKEA furniture, so hence the name the IKEA effect. So they would build this IKEA furniture, and then they asked them, how much do you think this piece of furniture you just built, how much is it worth? How much would you expect to pay for it? And they took the number down, and they took the participants out of the room and brought in a new group of participants, and they asked, how much do you think these things are worth? And every time the furniture that you built, you are willing to pay more for it than someone else is willing to pay for it, right? If you didn't build it, you just don't value it as much. They even did this. They did all these interesting permutations. They even compared to basically the same piece of furniture from ikea, one that was built by you, the inexperienced IKEA builder. So it's all rough around the edges, and this thing isn't screwed in properly, and all that, versus built by a professional builder. People are willing to pay more for the things that they built with the imperfections that come with it. Now, the piloting process, the magic of it, is that you're not saying, I built this. Here you go buy it. What you're saying is, I'm thinking about building this. Do you want to get involved in the story and give me your feedback? And you're inviting people to be a part of creating it. And that's why it's dramatically, dramatically easier to sell something like this in a pilot context where people are involved in the story of its creation than something that you just built on your own in your Batcave. It's very ironic. You'd think if you spend a year building something, then it would be better and easier. It's actually a lot harder. It's easier to do it this way.

It is. I've experienced that myself. I tell the story a lot about I spent a good six years beating my head against the wall doing it the way that you just described. Whereas once I flipped the script and did it more in line, not exactly how you're outlining it, but more in line with how you're outlining it. It's. It's like.

It's literally like a flip. A flip switched. A switch flipped. There we go. And it's a night and day difference between both the amount of money that comes in and my total happiness with it, because there's a whole lot less overwhelm. I remember, like my. My worst days were the days, like preparing content for something where there was no one there to see it, and I had no idea what the result was going to be or if anybody was even going to see that content, because I always felt like I was wasting time. And then when I switched it, when I switch flipped or flip switched or whatever we decided to call it, then there was always an audience there, and I got paid to make the content that I would get paid more for later. If I were to add one thing to what you said, I think you can automate this online through screening people out with applications or through even using other people's audiences. Rather than calling people up in your network, you can leverage some other audiences that are on Facebook or using guest posts, which I know you're big on, and going to where your audience already hangs out and bringing them into a sales process and filtering them out with some process. So you're only talking with the really the most qualified people.

Absolutely. No, I agree with that 100%. It's just a trade off of how much work versus how much time. If you're willing to reach out to your network, you can. You could make $10,000 in the next two weeks. If you want to build an audience, you could still do it. It's just gonna take you a few months. But that's, you know, in the grand scheme of things, that's not a big deal either.

Yeah, I keep quoting my mentor Travis on this topic because he's taught me a lot on this. But he said to me recently, I'm always shocked at how few leads you need. You don't need that many leads. You just need the right ones who have a hairy enough problem in order to. To spend money for it. So let me actually ask you about that. There's some people who listen that think, you know, I don't solve enough of a need. I don't have. I don't know what a big hairy problem is that people are going to be willing to pay for. What do you say to somebody like that or to that? Objection.

Well, I think it depends. Some people, a lot of people sell themselves short. A lot of people just go too broad and they kind of think, well, I'm not the biggest expert on X. X being a giant broad topic. And if you just narrow it down, you make it more and more focused. It doesn't have to be a giant hairy problem, it just has to be a really specific problem. Right? I mean, the opposite of a buying decision is not a decision not to buy. It's confusion. You want to be able to present something and let people say, yes, I need this or no, I don't need this. You don't ever want them to say, I'm not sure. And that's what happens when your promise is too vague. So often people either are just not giving themselves enough credit or they're not being specific enough. Now sometimes they're legitimately not solved. You can't make money doing anything. You don't get to decide where the opportunity is. It's the market that decides when they either buy it or not. But especially if that's your concern, I would say you want to follow this piloting process so that first of all make sure, don't just wonder, don't let the fear or the doubt hold you back. Gather the information, validate, say either. Actually, this was a surprise. People paid me lots of money. That's awesome and that's cool. I'm going to continue with this or okay, I've validated that there is no opportunity here. Now what am I going to pivot to? Where there is an opportunity and often you don't have to pivot that far in order to go from something that's a non starter to something that is a really good opportunity.

Now Danny, I know you're inviting a few people to kind of go deeper into this topic. You're doing your own course on this to allow people to transition from money on the table to money in their pocket. And if I could say so myself, I'm doing a pretty sweet bonus for that guy. So why don't you tell people a little bit about that and we'll link over to it in the show notes?

Yeah, absolutely. So the program is called the Course Builders Laboratory. It's the culmination of kind of me teaching this stuff in a whole bunch of contexts and then systematizing it like we eat our own dog food. So this has gone through four or five pilot iterations in various ways. Shapes and forms with students to see what it takes to help them succeed before getting to where we are today. And where we are today it is. I mean, I'm biased, but to my mind it is pretty much the most comprehensive and helpful online business training course I've ever seen. And what makes it different is, I mean, the content, the content that's been refined over the course of working with a lot of students, but the outcomes that we promise and guarantee. See, most courses, they'll say, well, results, not typically you get the testimonial. It's like results, not typical. We can't promise that you're going to get any results. We actually guarantee results because of the support that we offer. So every person who joins this program gets a dedicated coach on my team, a course building coach who will help them work through this program. And we guarantee that if you follow the process, put in the time, do the work, reach out to us when you need help, we guarantee that you will get to your first launch within 60 days and make at least $2,000. And if you don't, we will personally get on the phone with you, see what the problem is and get you back on track. We're going to be with you to get you to success for as long as it takes. Although usually it doesn't take very long. That's it in a nutshell.

Cool. Well, Danny and I are doing some webinars together and I'm doing again a pretty sweet bonus for what he's doing and we'll have more info at that@freedomfastlane.com Danny thanks for hanging out with us on the show.

Ryan, thank you for inviting me. This has been fun. It's always fun when we chat.

So I teased a pretty sweet bonus here on the podcast. I'm going to be doing a mini class on going high end. How would we use the model that we outlined with Danny today to sell to high end clients and not just get $100 clients but five and $10,000 a pop clients and then up beyond even that level. So you only need a handful of clients to really have a life changing business. I'm going to be doing this as a free bonus class along with some training that Danny is releasing to the public here fairly soon. You can get more details that@freedomfastlane.com Pilot, pilot. Like an airplane pilot. This class is going to teach you how to launch your first pilot, monetize your audience and with my bonus we'll talk about going high end and getting those clients that really add your bottom line that you, you can really help whose lives you can impact without any overwhelm, without monopolizing your time. And even if this is a little side thing for you can bring in life changing types of dollars. Somebody doing this along with Danny's new training that he is releasing. And again, that's@freedomfastlane.com Pilot I think I have shared this on the podcast before, but I have realized that one of my superpowers and as a result the people that I really enjoy helping are those with audiences or a message that they want to share and they don't yet know how to do that or they're not doing a very good job at monetizing the audience that they have. So this is one of those ways that I am moving into helping those of you who have a list of people who follow you or you have some way that you can can seriously impact the world, but you're not yet sure what that looks like. So I am doing this bonus and I might be doing some bonus, some other really cool bonuses along with this because I want to start testing some of the methodologies that I put together and use my superpower to help those of you who want to impact the world in that type of a way. So that's@freedomfastlane.com bonus and I hope to see some of you there so we can work a little bit more closely on getting your message out there and monetizing your audience. As always, thank you for listening to Freedom Fast Lane and I'll see you guys on the next show.