Devon Ash: Mastering The Art Of Social Interaction

Foreign.

Welcome to Freedom Fast Lane. I'm Ryan Daniel Moran and today we're going to be talking about something that has impacted and improved literally every area of my life, maybe more than anything else that I focused on in my life. Today we're going to be joined by Devin Ash. And I always have a hard time explaining what Devin actually does or teaches, but if we had to narrow it down, really, Devin teaches social skills. He teaches how to be engaging. He teaches how to be a leader. He teaches how to interact with people. You know, most of the people who listen to Freedom Fast Lane are entrepreneurs and they recognize that who they are as a person impacts the results that they get. And hands down, working with Devin has improved me as a person. It has made me a better man, it has made me a better leader. It has made me a more tenacious investor and an entrepreneur. Even though this doesn't deal directly with business, it does deal directly with you and how you react to other people. You know, I believe that everything that we do on a fundamental level relates back to relationship. All the emotions that we want, all the things that we're going after, go back to how we want to be perceived by other people or interact with other people and our desire to connect. And Devin works directly with that part of us. And so today he's gonna be talking about how we present ourselves in front of other people, how we connect with people quickly, and how the way that we project ourselves has a direct impact in how people perceive us and the ultimate result that we want. Once I became aware of the little things that Devin is talking about, my whole perspective on just about everything changed. And as a result, every area of my life was improved. And that's why I wanted to have Devin on today. This call kicks off a little bit slow because Devin is really, really smart and I wanted to draw out actionable steps and really how this impacts all of us. So stick with the first ten minutes or so. It gets really, really good about halfway through. This is very, very life changing stuff, so I hope you're buckled in. This is a good one. Stay tuned for this call with Devin Ash. Hey, everybody. Ryan Daniel Moran here. And today we're joined by a personal friend of mine whose effects on me have influenced every single aspect of my life. We're joined by my buddy, Devin Ash. Devin, thanks for hanging out with us.

Yeah, absolutely. Good to be here.

Devin, when I met you, I just assumed that you were like a pickup guy. You were going to teach me how to pick up chicks.

Is that because I was Wearing a crazy top hat and 37 bracelets.

That's it.

No, I forget how you were, how somebody described you to me, but it was something along the lines of, we're going to get a crash course from Devin on impressing girls in my brain. I just assumed whatever I heard, I interpreted as that. But what actually happened is you ended up influencing every area of my life, and it had very little to do with girls at all. So what I would like is for you to kick things off by just explaining a little bit about what it is that you teach.

Absolutely. So.

Well. Thank you first of all, for saying that. That's really the goal of. I think any coach wants to have much further reaching effects than their specific niche that they work on. So for me.

My central message is if you change the way that you behave and you change your actions when the pressure is on, and that's really what matters. It's when the pressure is on. How do you show up in those moments? If you change your behaviors, you get different reactions from other people, and those different reactions start changing the way you look at yourself and the way you realize that you're not shy, you're not nervous, you're not any of these things. You're just behaving in that way. And then people are reinforcing that behavior based on their perception of you. And I'm getting a little kind of out there. But.

What I. What I mean to say is your actions are going to affect the way that people perceive you, and the way that people perceive you is going to affect your actions. So if you can change your behaviors, then the way that people look at you will change, and then it becomes a positive cycle.

Yeah, it makes sense to me because I really believe that most of the world's problems can be solved if men would just stand up and be real men. And when I started using a lot of what we're gonna be talking about today, I really became a better man. And as a result of that, different results showed up in my life. And it wasn't from any, like, attraction sitting around thinking about certain things and they'll show up. It was becoming what it took in order for those things to be a reality in my life. And that's what showed up as a natural. As a natural result.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there is a huge opportunity for men right now to.

Show up as men. There's. There's a deficiency forming in the.

Male population around.

How we connect with our masculine energy. And I mean, there's all sorts of possible reasons for that. Pornography, video games, a lack of father figures. But whatever our excuse is.

The reality is we need to bring it up a notch, as mentioned. And guys like you and I, who can play kind of a big brother role to other men.

And even boys, you know, like, I've got younger brothers and I. One of the great joys of my life has been being a part of their evolution towards masculine energy.

Yeah, I think.

I think we're in a pretty, you know, I don't want to be like, you know, doomsday theorist here, but I think we're in a pretty dire time for men. And I think there's a really huge need for us to pick it up and get in touch with that power.

Yeah. Our conditioning is.

Is to make us more and more feminine. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. There's just now a gaping hole in society that somebody has to fill, that somebody has to step up and lead.

And I think men should fill that hole.

You said that. I don't. What am I supposed to do with those? Right.

I deserve that. Thanks, Devin. Anyway, Devin, why don't we go into exactly what it is that you work with men on accomplishing?

Sure.

We've talked a lot about presence together. We've talked a lot about how to act in certain social dynamics. And again, when I met you, I thought it was from like a dating perspective. And that's not necessarily the bulk of what I've learned from you. But as a result of being a more fully present man in social situations, girls tend to notice that, especially when that's such a rare thing in today's society and people are on their phones all the time and.

Aren'T present.

Absolutely. Yeah. You said a lot of good stuff in there. I should be taking notes. These are things I want to come back to. But the.

The essence of what I teach is about changing the way you show up when you're socializing. So you talk about presence, you talk about specific maybe techniques. Really what it comes down to is a thought process. And the thought process is.

If you have a tendency to get nervous and anxious, then your mind is going to actually focus in on the thing that's causing you nervousness and anxiety. And that may have been an awesome asset when you were being chased by a saber tooth tiger. But now in our current reality, that focus.

All that does is expand the problem. And usually the problem is something social. So you're hanging out and someone says something kind of that could be perceived as a bit of a dis. And your mind Focuses in on that, and that causes you to.

Just get in this negative cycle of thought about what does that mean? How did that person perceive what that other person said and how does that make me look? And you start over analyzing and overthinking, and then you get frozen.

But if you have training.

You, you can widen your focus and you can see a situation. You can look at it like Jackie Chan would look at a room, as everything in here is something that I can use to my advantage.

Whereas someone who's, you know, maybe has no experience in combat would just go into tunnel vision and just focus on the one thing, and they wouldn't see the huge opportunity to make light of the situation. Right to their right, to their left, right to their left.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, I mean, it makes sense to me. For those of you, for people who aren't familiar with your stuff.

Yeah.

I'd add in that as an entrepreneur, sometimes things don't go our way, and as a result, we often will panic or those voices in your head come out and they'll sabotage your success. And that is the exact same voice that plays a role when you are out in a social setting and there's a cute girl and you want to talk to her, but your voices come out in your head and say that you can't. I'd argue that it's the exact same voice. So if we can harness that, we harness that energy and get total self mastery in that area of our life that impacts everything. It changes our business, it changes our relationships. And what you're saying is that we can control that by simply looking at what's around us and saying we can use this to our advantage, rather than saying we're under threat, there's a tiger in the room that's gonna attack me. We can actually use everything in order to achieve the result that we want.

That's very well put.

Very well put. The idea of.

Of these voices is interesting because those are your beliefs, right? Those are your. The patterns that you've heard in the past. And they're causing you to freak out in, in this present moment.

And I'm not sure that those voices ever completely, completely go away. But what you can do is you can gain so much.

Skill in a specific area. I mean, it's like a professional athlete. You know, they might get nervous before the big game, but they know they're so good that they're gonna be able to handle it when they get out there. And I think that's what it comes down to is you're still gonna have nerves. And you know, when you see a beautiful woman you want to talk to or you're at a networking event and you see that perfect client.

You'Re still going to have this tiny little bit of nervousness that's going to come up, but you're going to know that you've done it so many times that you can just walk up to them and spark up a conversation. And, you know, you don't necessarily know if it's going to be a perfect match once you get in there, but you know that you can get in there and find out.

Yeah. And I have experienced this in my life. I mean, as I become more successful and, for example, working with a client, my rate has gone up, and my rate now filters out most people. And there's always. When I'm working with someone new, when I say my rate, there's always a voice in the head that's like, can you really command that price? And I can, because I know the results that I can generate for that client. But that voice still sometimes comes up and rears its head. The skill isn't so much making that go away. It's using it and harnessing it in order to channel it towards the result that I ultimately want.

Absolutely.

That's a big thing that I talk about, is you want to turn your nervous energy into almost like a spidey sense, almost like the sixth sense, where you can. You can get into this really powerful mindset and this powerful personal energy of being present. And, you know, the fight or flight response is really just about making you super present. You either got to run your ass off and really be aware of where you're running and get away, or you got to get your game face on and really show up. And so it's about getting you into the moment. So embrace that. Embrace that nervous energy. Embrace.

That response. I say don't do the fight or flight response. Do the right response. And the right response is just kind of handling the situation like a dominant man would.

Well, you and I were talking before the call that I've recently begun seeing a new lady, and I met her at the grocery store, and I saw this beautiful girl that I wanted to talk to. And when I'm a student of Devin's stuff, so I knew how to handle this situation. And I walked up to this girl. Even though I was nervous, I walked up and I started talking to her, and she turned her head towards me. It's kind of rare. It's not often that a girl gets approached in the Grocery store, at least from the ones I've talked to. And I walk up and I start talking and she turns her head to me, kind of like, what's going on right now? And every fiber of my being was like, run. This is not safe. She has not opened up. You look like an idiot. Run away. And all I did was kind of breathe into it, take a deep breath and wait. And then she turned her whole body towards me. And at that point I was in. And I've been seeing her ever since.

Yeah.

The problem though, I think is that so many of us listen to that fight or flight. And it prevents us from ever doing the things that we want. Whether it's in business, whether it's in relationships, whether it is getting off the couch and going to the gym. It is that little flinch that we feel that if we don't harness that it controls us because it wants to keep us safe. And safe is on the couch alone. And living on government checks, that's safe.

And the thing is, it's only safe for a while.

At a certain point, you realize that being alone on a couch is totally unsafe, right? Or your health, because you're gonna die earlier. Like, if you're not a social person, if you're not a healthy person, if you're not financially stable person, if you're not able to engage in relationships with partners for romantic purposes, you're more likely to die with all of those. So.

It'S only safe for a little while. And what happens is your safety nest starts to shrink when you don't push outside of your comfort zone.

So, Devin, why don't you talk to me like I'm coming to you with certain results that I want. I'm an average guy, don't have a girlfriend making average money. And I want to get to the next level. What strategies and tactics and philosophies are you teaching to that client in order to help them get the results that they want?

Okay, great. Well, first I want to do a pretty in depth discovery session with you and understand where you're coming from on all those fronts, what your past experience is, what a lot of your belief patterns are around.

Yourself.

And then we would get into some of the tactical stuff. So I'm just going to make up some stuff in my mind about where you're at.

And then we can build something together. So.

Let me understand first what area you really want to focus on.

Let's say that we'll go with a personal example. I would like to be better in front of a crowd And I'd like to feel more confident in a group setting where I just. I moved to Austin, Texas in the last year and making friends since I work from home or out of an office and I work for my own company is not a skill that I've ever had to develop. So going out and meeting new people cold in a new city is. I feel the flinch and the flinch controls me more often than it then it frees me.

Okay, great.

So.

For me, a little bit of background about me as well. Let's sprinkle this in. Every year growing up, I was in a new school. So until my junior and senior year where I was in one school in Vegas, I was in a different school every single year. So I had to figure out how to make friends from an very early stage.

Constantly. I was constantly getting tossed into what felt like the deep end.

So I became a natural. I became very good at connecting with people. And I was basically able to walk into any situation, any school, and within a week or two I could connect and build relationships.

When I was 23, I was diagnosed with skin cancer. And I have a big scar on my face that they had to do some major surgery to remove the cancer. And that left me feeling very depressed, very lost. And I had to re establish my social skills because I sort of became a recluse and I wouldn't connect with people.

So I started redeveloping myself. And through that process I read books on evolutionary psychology, cognitive behavior therapy.

All sorts of stuff around positive psychology and how to.

I mean, there's a ton of stuff out there, you know, like how to win friends and influence people is an old, old example. But there's so many social psychology books that talk about a lot of this stuff. And I started reading and reading and trying and trying and I saw patterns. So one of the main things that I would recommend for you is getting into social spaces.

If you can work from a coffee shop, that's wonderful place to start. I know you say you have an office or you work from home sometimes, but as much as possible, if you can just go to the coffee shop and work from there. And every single day just say hey to whoever sits next to you and just keep it at that. Don't make a big thing about it. Just be like, hey, how's your day? Great. Cool. Alright, I'm gonna plug in. Put your headphones on. Get to work.

After a while you'll start seeing the same people and you'll start, you know, just nodding at each other and chatting and then that can potentially convert into a more extended conversation. But what you really want to think about is.

Is status. And when I say status, I don't mean it in the way that a lot of people think of it. I don't mean it in, like, your car or if you're, you know, wearing your fancy suit to Starbucks. I mean it in the way of.

How do you perceive yourself? Do you perceive yourself to be a person who is of high value, someone who people want to hang out with? Or do you perceive yourself as.

Someone who's lucky to get someone chatting to them or lucky to close a deal or lucky to have a amazing girlfriend? If you perceive yourself as someone who's lucky to have all those things, and I mean, you should be grateful, but it's not luck. It's the fact that you're an amazing guy that gets you all the deals and gets you the great girl and gets you the close friends. And I mean, you say that you need, you know, you want to get some more social friends in, in Austin, but I know firsthand that you have lots and lots of amazing friends. They're just spread out around the world.

Right?

Right. So you're a great guy. You just need to get your, your FaceTime version of Ryan.

Up a notch. Because in that first moment, you're, you know, you're getting a little bit of anxiety around.

You know, am I going to get rejected by these people? Is that going to spill into a Austin wide campaign against Ryan as a friend?

It sounds so silly, but I think we've all had crazy thoughts like that.

Yeah, I mean, that's one of the unfortunate things about YouTube is it can happen these days.

Who knows who's rolling?

I think there's a sense of self acceptance that when you get there, this becomes so much easier because today I can walk up to that girl and talk and if she says, get away from me, you creep, I think that's cool. What a cool experience. Because whatever she was dealing with in that moment isn't mine. Yeah, that's whatever she's dealing with, not me. Unless, you know, I was walking up to her and like doing something creepy and it would warrant it, then yeah.

That'S good to be aware of that. That's great feedback. Thank you, sister. Right? Yeah.

But I think once you're at that level of self acceptance where it doesn't matter what happens externally because you're the same person internally, regardless of what happens, you're free to do whatever you want and you're free to command the prices that you Want or date whatever girl you want. Because now it's a choice. Because now it's coming from abundance rather from a place of neediness or codependence.

Yeah, absolutely.

The process. And that really comes back to what I was talking about at the beginning, which is behaving in a certain way that makes people perceive you in a certain way that makes you perceive yourself in that way. So then those actions that are confident, they're coming from a place of.

Real belief inside of you. And, and that's when it really gets exciting and that's when it really gets real. And that's when the results start to explode, is when you've, when you've developed those, those positive cycles of pattern thoughts.

So let me, let me talk to you about some of the stuff that you can do from a, from a tactical standpoint.

Sure.

And I don't like thinking of as tactical. I just think of it more as like the nitty gritty of when you're actually in these situations, what are you going to physically tangibly do? So.

One thing is important to figure out. What kind of person do you want to meet? What kind of group do you want to socialize with? How do you want to spend your time.

With these people? Because where you meet them is going to set the context of your friendship.

That's a great question and that's something I couldn't answer and I think most people never answer. And getting clear on that, I tell people when they're wanting to get into a relationship, what type of a girl do you want to be dating? Because if you don't define it, you'll just end up with whatever life gives you.

Right.

So I'd say high level people who stretch me that have fun outside of talking about work and have a good sense of humor.

Okay, great.

So now we would need to drill down and figure out where those people might hang out.

High level. So maybe not meet up.

One thing that you want, you want to meet funny people.

I find courses, classes are really filled with a lot of interesting people because they're people who are working on themselves. They're people who are developing themselves. Right. So I, you know, I took a stand up comedy class.

Just because that's something that I wanted to do and get on stage.

I.

Have taken cooking classes. I'll tell you where I've met most of the people that I've been socializing with recently. And that's really, it speaks to.

Where I'm moving my life back to in a lot of ways is I've Been meeting a ton of people through the yoga studio I go to.

And it doesn't hurt that 90% of them are beautiful women. But, you know, I met some cool dudes there as well, and we've connected and gone to some parties with these people and.

Gone on some adventures with them. And.

So, you know, I'm specifically looking for people who are elevating me in that spiritual area of my life.

Well, Devin, let me ask you something, because for the person who is not socially aware and is not aware of how their actions produce a certain result in other people, thus giving them a positive or a negative result in whatever their goal is. Yeah, it's really easy to go into a group of people like this and then completely either turn off other people or present yourself in a way that, that does not serve the result that you want.

Right.

One thing that you said to me that was very honest and very helpful when we first met was that I had a tendency to be the entertainer in the group, which I will, I will totally own up for. I am happiest when I'm on stage. I am, I am happiest when I am performing in some capacity. I'm happiest when I'm behind this microphone. Interviewing Devin Ash. But what you said to me was that in a social setting, that can be very low man on the totem pole. Like, hey, man, go do that funny thing. Go make us laugh. And I say, you got it, dude. And that presents a very low status perception of me. And, and, and as a result, I am often pigeonholed into kind of being like the little brother in the group. Yes, everybody likes me, but I don't have the respect of that group.

Absolutely.

Yeah, that's something that I've struggled with. And I've noticed a lot of other people being followers rather than leaders in the same capacity. I'm curious how, when you're in a situation like that or when you're hanging out with people that elevate you spiritually from your yoga studio, how do you position yourself in that alpha or leadership position to where.

You are commanding the respect that you know you deserve rather than being low man on the totem pole because you're new to the group?

Yeah, that's a great question. And setting that dynamic up from the start is really important. So what I do is, I mean, this comes down to a lot of the behavioral stuff that I teach. Body language.

Humor techniques, assertiveness.

Conversational agility to a certain degree.

So a big, big thing, especially for men, is to slow down.

It'S like one of the most powerful and important things that a person can work on. Slowing down your.

Behaviors will allow you to think about what you want to say. It'll allow you to decide how you want to respond. So if a situation comes up and someone says, hey, Devin, go entertain us.

I can.

Stop for a second and go, okay, do I feel energized towards doing that? And if I do that, will it have the result that I'm hoping for?

And based on what we're talking about, think we can agree that it's probably not going to have the exact response, the exact result that we want. We think we, when we do that, we become the center of attention. But it's like a spotlight. And the spotlight is always on the highest status person. And for a moment, that spotlight will swing onto us and we'll enjoy it and we'll bask in its warmth. And then whenever the highest status person in the room decides, that spotlight goes back on them. And really that's what that entertainer character is doing is they're appeasing the high status person to gain access to the spotlight, even if just for a moment.

They're dancing for the king.

They're dancing for the king. Exactly.

And so what I do is I slow down, I slow my behaviors down. And that slowing down also sub communicates to everyone that I am.

Very relaxed, very confident, very present. And being relaxed, confident and present cannot exist. When I'm feeling nervous.

Those things don't coincide. So being able to tap into that subconsciously in them is going to make them act differently around me. That's going to make them treat me as a leader.

Someone who's nervous is making a lot of sudden movements, is talking really quickly.

That's right.

Having a lot of rapid eye movements.

Looking around the room, fidgeting, laughing a lot. You know, I'm not saying don't laugh. I love laughing. But certainly don't laugh at your own jokes first. To try to warm up the crowd.

You have to allow other people in the room the opportunity to laugh first. And then once they start laughing, you're totally welcome to start engaging with them in laughter. But it really cannot be the. You can't be the first person who laughs at your own jokes. It automatically takes all the power out of the humor.

You gave a really good analogy to me once, which was to think of a lion versus, I think, a meerkat.

That's right, the lion reference.

And a lion is slow moving before until it makes its strike. It is calm. It makes very Few noises, but they're loud when they're made. Whereas a meerkat popping up and down out of the ground, looking all over the place, making high pitched, sudden noises. And one puts off a sense of nervousness and the other puts off a sense of calm and safety. And evolutionarily, who do we want to be around? Who do we feel safer around? We gravitate towards those who can protect us. It's more the lion philosophy.

Yeah. I don't think I feel super safe around a lion, but.

Yeah, well, if you were a lion, you might.

If I was a lion, yes. Yeah, absolutely.

I know what you're saying, and I think that.

That'S a really great analogy. I'm glad I used it in the past.

The cool thing about lions is they spend most of the day lying in the sun, chilling, but then when it's go time, they tense up their muscles and they turn into a killing machine. And that's really a good metaphor. And not killing necessarily. It's a good metaphor for how we should live our lives, which is just totally relax, go with the flow, floating around through our existence and just enjoying life and enjoying the ride. And then when it's go time, we need to make a decision, being decisive, sharp. You know, natural born killers that just go boom. Just take action in that moment and then we can get back to relaxing and enjoying ourselves. And I think that's a great way to live your life. Whereas a meerkat spends their entire life stressing about dying.

What am I gonna eat today?

Yeah, how am I gonna survive? I guess that's just part of the animal kingdom. They all probably worry about that a little bit, but there's just, you know, am I going to get eaten today? Is a different fear than what am I going to eat today? And.

Yeah, I mean, we're kind of getting off on a tangent.

But understand, I think it's important from an illusionary psychology perspective, we still see the world that way.

Yeah.

And, and, and we think that we get it on this much higher consciousness as human beings, but the truth is we're run by a reptilian brain in most of our situations, especially social situations, and we interpret other people's actions based on that perspective. And if we don't get that, then we're a slave to it. But the minute we become aware to it, we can use it in a way that produces the result that we want.

Absolutely. And the great thing about becoming aware of all of this and any of this is that as you do that, you advance your capacity to survive beyond the people around you. Because most people are totally unaware of this. Most people don't see the correlation of this action and that result. And.

It'S a funny thing, your fear of approaching people is actually an amazing asset if you can harness it. Because fact is, everyone has that fear. Everyone feels that little bit of anxiety. So if you can harness it and you can work with it and you can turn it into the spidey sense that I'm talking about, that sets you apart from 99% of people out there.

It was put to me once that we're all walking around afraid of each other all of the time. So the person that's not afraid is the one who gets what he or she wants, right?

Or even just the person who can act not afraid.

Ah, there we go.

Yeah, I mean, fake it till you feel it.

So break that down a little bit more. Break that down into some more nitty gritty about putting off that perception of not being afraid of being the type of person that people want to associate with. One thing again you pointed out to me was just that even when my hands were at my side, I would move my hands. Like I have twidgetty movements. I didn't even know I was having them. So even getting aware of the facial expressions and the sudden movements that I make in a, in a one on one interaction, I was completely unconscious to them until somebody pointed them out to me. What are some other things that we need to be paying attention to in order to give off the aura of respect rather than low man on the totem pole?

Yeah, well, that first one's really interesting. I mean, you're talking about body language there. So one thing you can do or your listeners can do is next time you're on a phone call and you're at home, just find a mirror and have your phone call in front of the mirror.

I don't know if you've noticed, but you'll see someone walking down the street and they'll be on the phone and they'll be waving their arms as if they're talking to the person directly.

Because these things are so built into us as these patterns that we do over and over and over that they have become connected to these emotional states. So when you're on the phone and you're, and you're looking in the mirror, you'll see a lot of the stuff you do. So that'll at least bring your awareness to it. Now that's not necessarily gonna, I mean, awareness is the first step, but that's not gonna necessarily change that behavior. You need to. You need to focus on eliminating that behavior. And the way you do that is you find another behavior that cannot coexist with that behavior, and you focus on trying to do that behavior more often, and the other one that you want to get rid of will dissipate.

Meaning, like putting stillness in place of waving your arms.

Yeah. Or even just like, I'm going to push my arm down towards the ground. Because stillness is sometimes hard because it's. It's so passive that it eventually just turns back into fidgeting. But pushing your arm towards the ground, that's like a physical movement that you're trying to.

Push downward is going to kind of trigger parts of your brain that's gonna say, okay, you're actually doing something, and that's gonna keep you more conscious of it. So body language is huge. I mean, honestly, body language is the base that everything's built on. So if you don't have solid body language, you know, you can say the coolest thing in the world, but if your body language isn't congruent with that.

No one's buying it. On the other hand, you can say a totally dorky thing, but if you have really solid body language, it can come off as very confident, very playful, very ironic. All of these things that kind of showcase this confidence.

So body language is huge conversation. You have to be able to maintain a conversation. You have to be able to move your focus from one topic to another topic seamlessly. If your tendency is to.

Focus in on one topic over and over and over and over, that can come off as a little.

A little socially inept.

Or bringing it back to yourself every time.

Or bringing it back to yourself every time. Exactly. That's not attractive. Or just talking about them all the time. That's also not attractive because that comes off subconsciously to them as this person's got something to hide and they keep making it about me and they're not sharing themselves. So why isn't this person sharing themselves? So it's really. I mean, truly a good conversation needs to be very dynamic. So I ask you a question, you give me an answer, I take your answer, and I turn it into a different statement that I make about myself. And then I chat about that for 10, 30 seconds, and then I say, oh, that reminds me, did you ever try this blah, blah, blah, and then you answer that question, and then I take that answer and I make a new thread, a new statement about myself, and then again, ask you another question. And ideally, both Partners are going to be asking questions and making statements. So you have this really kind of fun back and forth.

You know, Devin, this seems so simple to get to me, and I think a lot of people listening are like, okay, great. Have a good conversation and you'll see good things. Okay, great. But I can't tell you how many times I've been in a networking situation where I've been connecting with somebody who can, with one email to their list or one tweet to their followers or whatever, take me to the next level of business or status or whatever goal that I have, and because of that anticipation, I'll tense up and the conversation goes nowhere and I lose out on that networking opportunity. Exactly.

That's what I was saying at the beginning, is.

It'S all well and good, theoretically, but how do you show up when the pressure's on?

Exactly. And I'm good.

I'm more in tune than most people. So what I mean is this stuff impacts our businesses, it impacts our relationships, because all of it is relational. Right? Everything that we do is social. Everything that we're after in some capacity is actually a desire to connect. We want money because we want to provide and we want people to think we're cool. We want the car because we want to be seen as desirable to other people. We want the relationship for the connection. Everything that we do is somehow related to a desire to connect socially. And yet.

And success in any of those areas is dependent on your ability to connect socially.

Exactly. And yet no one talks about how do you actually connect socially. Except for Devin Ash, of course.

Of course. I'm the only person talking. Yes. Look, nowhere else. Dear friends.

Devin, I'd like to run a situation by you.

Okay?

So when I first met you, I wanted to run a test because it was. It was kind of like the BS test to see if what you were saying actually had merit to it.

Okay.

And so what I did was I was in a small setting. It was myself and maybe one or two other guys and then a bunch of beautiful women.

Where. Hey, was this in San Fran?

No, this was.

This is after. We had. We had connected.

Correct.

Okay.

So I'm back at home and I'm in the small group setting with like eight beautiful women and myself and maybe two other guys. I was friends with the other guys. Close friends. We had connected, and a lot of respect was shared between them, between us. Now, one of the guys was alpha in the group. He had the attention of the entire group. So I decided to run a little test just. Just to See, because I was only now starting to become aware of, of social dynamics. Now I can pick out an Alpha. I can pick out, I can pick out who's doing approval seeking behavior. I can pick out who is the calm one that people are gravitating towards. And that's why I wanted to have you on, because I wanted people to get that first glimpse of being in tune to this great. But while I was sitting in that room, decided I wanted us, we were going somewhere that night and I wanted the whole group to follow me. So I stood up and I walked into the other room and I didn't say anything, I just walked into the other room and no one followed, which is what I thought would happen because I wasn't Alpha in the room.

And.

But the minute he stood up, everybody followed. And that was really interesting to see.

Now, was there any context there? I mean, like you might have just been going to the bathroom. As far as they knew, we were.

All sitting around just socializing before we went to the next place, kind of waiting for somebody to make a move, which really meant waiting for the Alpha in the room to say, okay, it's time to go, it's time to go.

Right.

What I never quite figured out was how that person just set himself up as the Alpha in the room, as the lion in the room. And what I'd like to do with our last few minutes together is for you to touch on that. Walking into a situation where even though I was pretty socially clued in, I didn't know how to, to position myself to be the leader in that group when I had this lion who had already achieved that status. And I'd like, because a lot of people are listening, go to networking events or they have clients, they want to close more deals or they want to connect with people who can help them get to the next level. But walking into that situation where there's already established Alphas, getting that respect is more difficult than just having a good conversation with people. At least that's the perception. So I'd like for you to touch on walking into a situation where you're not naturally respected, but appreciate approaching it in a way that puts you in a position for respect.

Yeah. Okay. Do you have a gun? No. I'm just joking.

So here's the deal. When there's already an established Alpha, there is a certain respect that, that Alpha deserves. And I know there's a whole thing about coming in and like amogging, I don't, I don't know what exactly it's called. But like taking the Alpha and like over Alpha ing them. And I'm not really a big proponent of that. I think. I don't want to, I don't want to make anyone not be Alpha because we need more alphas. We need more good, solid guys who are, are in that state. And I don't want to. I mean, I'm okay challenging them and pushing them to really come more into their, into their Alpha state, but I'm not, I'm not into like trying to dis someone or make them feel bad about themselves. So.

The way I approach it is I find the alpha and I.

Ingratiate myself to the alpha and I show the Alpha that I am also Alpha and then the, that Alpha will start to treat me like an equal and, and a true Alpha will do this. This is an interesting litmus test for Alphas. So there's kind of a misnomer of a lot of people think that Alphas are kind of like these douchebag guys who like, you know, are big and strong. That's not an Alpha. No, that's usually a beta. That's usually someone who wants to be perceived as an Alpha, but is actually really stuck in their head, really nervous, really.

Not coming from a place of integrity. So I challenge in a. No, I don't challenge. I approach to create a mutually beneficial relationship of I'm an Alpha, you're an Alpha, let's be Alphas together. And a true Alpha will embrace that and a Beta will not. And at that point I know that the person's a beta and then I will challenge them and then I will push their buttons and then I'm okay with, you know, letting the order of the pack.

Kind of fall into its right, right order.

So my advice would be approach the Alpha as a bro. Or I mean, it could be a female Alpha who's in the room and you need to approach her as equals and.

Connect, Build a relationship. Show them through your behaviors and your, and your, what you're saying and the jokes that you're making and the way you're showing up. Show them that you're also Alpha and then.

You guys can be Alpha together.

But if they challenge you, this is where you want to start using high status humor. You want to use this type of humor that creates a dynamic where you are in control, you are.

More confident than they are. You're able to tease them and make fun of them. And if they get all pissed off about it, you can be like, whoa, bro, chill out, man, I'm just joking. And that is like the most frustrating, frustrating thing when someone's messing with you and you get mad and they go, dude, I'm just joking. You're like, so it's, there's nothing you, nothing they can do about it. And if they just like, if they want to fight, then everyone looks at them like, oh God, are you serious?

So humor is a great way to.

Reset the status dynamic with a guy who might be perceiving or being perceived as high status, but in reality is a beta. Does that make sense?

It makes total sense to me.

Cool, cool. You think it'll make sense to your listeners?

I hope so. Okay, let us know when they review us on itunes.

Okay, good. I look forward to that. All those betas are freaking out on me.

Well, you know, I used something very similar to this where I was speaking at an event and before me speaking was, we'll say, the alpha at the conference. He was a big guy, size wise. And that plays a role into social respect.

Yeah, it does.

And he spoke loud, had a deep voice, and was also extremely successful, had a smoking hot wife. And I mean by, by any measure, he was, he had the most status in the room.

Right.

And after he spoke, I went up to him and, and it was somebody that I had wanted to meet for a long time. And I said, I've wanted to meet you for a long time because. And then I told him something that was completely unrelated to his talk. It was actually, oh, we both come from a very particular background. And I told him that we had an instant connection and I wasn't trying to get anything from him, there was just a connection that was made. And then I exited. And then throughout, you know, the next few days, we were alpha together until I spoke at the end of the conference. And by then the complete social dynamic had switched.

Which was a great example of exactly what you're saying.

In the social setting of you don't need to go outdo anyone. It's just true, genuine connection and allowing people to show up because people will show up genuinely to what is underneath. So if somebody is.

Nervous underneath and they get challenged, they will show that. Thus either increasing or decreasing their social status.

Exactly. And the more you're attuned to all of these dynamics that are happening, the more you can pick out the subtleties of things as even before they're obvious. So, you know, you'll see a twitch, a slight behavior in someone's actions that is going to, you know, it's not going to be 100% certain, but it's Going to allow you to see. Okay, they're feeling a little bit of anxiety here. This is an opportunity for me to either strike. I don't generally recommend it, but sometimes the circumstances requires it, or this is an opportunity for me to be alpha and make them feel comfortable and let them know it's a safe place and make them feel good around me. The ideal situation is you make everyone feel great when they're around you and they want to hang around you more.

It's a pretty simple concept, but a lot of people think that, oh, I need to make people feel like small so that I look big. No, no, no. Make people feel amazing so that you look amazing.

Amen, brother. There's one last thing I want to touch on before we wrap up and that is I have a theory and I'd like for you to either confirm or reject it.

Okay.

And that is that I believe that people respond to us very differently when we are approaching a situation from a give perspective versus a take perspective. Because when we're going into a situation saying what can I get out of this? There is this. The aura that we put off, the sense that we give to people is that we need something, that we're in lack and that I have to get something. We get nervous when I'm about to present on stage because I'm afraid of what I might not get and I need that thing in order to be complete. Whereas if I'm approaching something from a give perspective of what can I give to this person in this situation, then it assumes that I already have, which means that I'm totally abundant and I can share with whoever I want. And it doesn't matter if I don't get anything back because I'm not approaching it from a what can I get perspective. It's what can I give perspective. One assumes lack and therefore neediness and the other assumes abundance and total completeness and just sharing with other people. And I've seen a complete 180 difference in the way that people respond to how I present myself. Whether I'm trying to get something or if I'm just assuming that I'm cool either way and now I'm sharing giving to other people.

I couldn't agree more.

That is just the essence of living a happy life as well. I mean, if you can live in abundance and you can live in a state of I'm going to give give, give your and truly without the underlying intention of I'm giving with the purpose of getting Because I think that's important to really truly Just give to give. And if your intention is to bring value to people's lives and to make people feel better and more connected and all these things, then people are just naturally going to want to hang out with you and they're naturally going to want to give you referrals, they're going to want to give you business, and they're going to want to set you up with their girlfriends and they're gonna want to do all these things. And there's a.

It really. But it really needs to come down and back to, I'm doing this for.

Everyone. And I'm gonna get really metaphysical here, but I'm gonna. I'm doing this for other people because other people are me. And when I do good to other people.

Ultimately doing good to me because, you know, we're all one. This is all just one big swirling ball of energy and we're just one being, hooking each other up. But if you're coming from a place of taking, then you're taking from yourself.

So, again, that's a little out there. Little that. That explains why I'm hanging out with all these yogis. But.

Well, Devin, I can honestly say this. This stuff made me a better man. And so I'm. I'm very passionate about spreading what I've taken from. From what I've learned from you and sharing it with other people. So I want to give you the last minute or so to talk about where people can discover more about your philosophy and integrate more of this stuff into their lives.

Great. Cool. So a couple places, I have a website, I have a brand called Oyster, and The website is www.shucktheworld.com. the world is your oyster, so shuck it. So that's shucktheworld.com.

And so you can reach me@devonucktheworld.com I also have an app that I'm pretty proud of that just came out, and I challenge your listeners. I don't know.

I didn't preface this before the call, but I'm sure you're down with it. I challenge your listeners to download my app and unplug for.

I don't know, 10 minutes a day for 30 days. And let me explain what my app does. It's called Unplug. And you can go to the website. We are unplugged.

And the app essentially prompts you to turn off your phone when you're hanging out with people socially. The idea is that we spent way too much time on our devices, on Facebook, checking email, checking text messages instead of being present with the people we're with. Remember when we went out for dinner, Ryan, and we all turned our phones over?

Yeah.

And we. We just had the most amazing conversations.

Yeah.

Because none of us were looking at our phones.

Right.

That. All the time in an app. So I challenge your. Your listeners to download the app at we are unplugged.com and unplug once a day for however long. 10 minutes, an hour, even just overnight.

Unplugged once a day for 30 days. And see how you feel. Because I promise there's something changing in us with this technology. And if we overuse it, it can be a real problem. If we use it properly, it's amazing. But if we overuse it, it's a real problem. We are unplugged dot com. Cool.

Dev and Ash, thanks so much for hanging out with us at Freedom fast Lane.

Ah, my pleasure. Ryan.

I hope that this call has a fraction of the impact on you that my time with Devin has had on me. I found that as soon as I became aware of the way that my actions influenced the social dynamics and thus the result that I wanted, once I became aware of it, I could do something about it. Before, when I was unconscious about it. We're helpless. When we're unaware of something, then we're a slave to it. But the moment that we become aware of it and the minute that we become aware that we can do something about it, then we're in a position of power. So this week, be very aware of how the way that you present yourself influences the social dynamics, because this has an impact in our businesses, in our romantic relationships, in the amount of fun and pleasure that we experience on a daily basis. It all is connected. And that's why this stuff has impacted and improved literally every area of my life. And I hope that has the same impact on you. If it did, I would really appreciate it if you'd go over to itunes and give freedom fastlane a five star ranking in the itunes store. You know, it really helps us spread our message. When you tell people about freedom fast lane and when you go to the itunes store and leave us a review, it really would really mean a lot to me. Thanks so much for listening to freedom fastlane and we'll see you on the next call.