Fix It Or Sell It? What To Do When You Want Out

Hey, boys and girls, what's going on? Welcome to the show. I recently had a conversation with one of our members of the 1%. I like to do these just random calls with people who have a really particular sticking point in their business. And this individual was struggling with just the overall stress and overwhelm in her business. And she was at this point of, do I. Do I keep pounding through it, or do I sell this thing? Or what do I do? Because I've hit seven figures, all I do is work. None of it is fun. I got into this business because I had a vision and I wanted to do something great. I wanted to make money. And now she was stuck. She's stuck at this just awful, soul sucking, draining business that so many entrepreneurs go through when they hit right around seven figures. So we got on this call and we fixed it, and we had to go through a lot of resistance in order to fix it, as is usually the case. But the end result was that we found the problem and we fixed it. If you've ever felt overwhelmed, if you have ever felt like you wanted to give up, I think this podcast might fix it for you. This is a really good one, by the way. If you want to join the community that we talk about in this episode, you can join the fun over@capitalism.com. join now. Enjoy the show.

Hello there.

Good morning. How are you?

I'm just fine, thanks. How are you?

I'm doing good. Do you say your name? Leah or Leah?

It's Leah.

Leah. Cool. Leah. I get the vibe that you're a little bit nervous to do this.

I mean. No, I'm good.

Well, you know, I know you're wrestling with a few decisions in your business, and I also know that you're a little bit nervous about sharing too many specifics. But publicly, yes. And. And not because you want to mislead anything, but just because you're still kind of making decisions, and that's a sensitive time. And. And it totally makes sense for you to not share specifics publicly when you're still making private decisions. So I want. I want to encourage you to keep whatever you want to keep private. Just. Just talk about it generally, and I'll only dive into specifics if I need them, because the truth is, I probably need to know very little about the specifics of your business to help you make a decision. Are. Are you comfortable with that?

Yeah, I am. And it's mostly also because I. I'm pretty sure I have students that follow you, and so I don't want really word Getting out, like you said before, the decision's made, like, that's not good for morale, you know?

Well, you might actually be surprised.

Really?

Yeah. Because every business has challenges and every business has opportunities. And the truth is, you want what's best for your students. You want what's best for the business, your students want what's best for the business because the students want. Are in it for themselves. And if the business improves by you taking a step back or taking on an investor or going in a different direction, all they want is the result that they signed up for in the first place. And so if you think about it like you're making a decision about what's best for the business and what's best for the students, you really can't go wrong.

Yeah, that's a good point.

You really can't go wrong with that approach. So I know that you're. It sounds to me like you're just based on our Facebook exchanges. Here's what I've gathered so far. Leah, I know very little about your business, but you told me that you have a successful one that you're really proud of. And it's hit certain resistance points, either in growth or capacity or the breadth of challenges that you want to deal with. And you're considering what do you do next, and that's either hold it, grow it, or sell it. And you're facing the difficult but also exciting challenge of deciding which one of those three options is best for you. Is that a fair summary?

Yeah, I think I'm actually further along down that track. I. I think I'm actually pretty sure that I do want to sell if that. If that. If it's even sellable.

And it is, it is a business I'm super proud of. And, and I'm pretty clear on why my reasons are as well. But I don't know where to begin in terms of selling it.

And.

And the tricky part is that it was built around my story and my face that the business is not my name. So I had that in mind when I started it. But it is built around my story, and so that can be a little tricky.

So is the product itself built around your story?

No. No. All the marketing is, though.

Okay, then this is. Then this could be really easy.

But first of all, would you tell me a little bit about why you've decided or think you've decided to sell the business?

Yeah, I just, I'm at the point where it's. It's soul draining. It's a soul sucking business.

Every. I mean, it's we started in 2016 and I went from stay at home, mom of five kids, homeschooling to this exploding business. It was crazy. I wasn't prepared for that. And what I wasn't also prepared for was all the. Because I'm in the education space. All the, all the. I guess the trolls. Not just trolls, but, you know, my name really being dragged through the mud in addition. So as successful as it was, I also got an equal amount of flack because the nature of the education space, it's like in the marketing world, like you have great people and you also have slimy people and you have everything in between. And so people are highly, highly skeptical.

And so in my space, I wasn't prepared for that. So it just has worn me down. I'm a little worn out and burnt out from that, that whole business. And yet it's something that needs to live on. It's something that helps a lot of people. And I don't quit because I want to help people, but at the end of the day, I'm done helping people. So it's terrible.

Yeah, no, no, there's a. I can so relate with what you're going through right now. So I want you to understand I completely. I know nothing about your business, Leah, but I know that I can just tell you put your heart and your soul into it and you really, really care about your customers and your clients and at the same time, those who are not clients and customers who have said certain things about you have also drained on you enough to where it's kind of an even shake. Like the amount of reward that you get is almost canceled out by the amount of flack that you're getting publicly. Is that right?

Definitely. And I've come to the point where I think, oh, you know, I don't like coaching people. I don't like. I love teaching, but I don't think I like coaching. I don't think I like holding hands and all of that. I love transformations like that. That makes me feel alive for sure. But I was like, you know, I'm at the point where I was like, I can't stand this business. This model, this, you know, one to many model is. It's very soul sucking for some reason and not enough reward. And yet I'll. I have friends where I'll give free advice all day long because they, they genuinely appreciate it, they genuinely listen and they go and do something with it. You know, it really bums me out when, when you put your heart and soul into something and, and People don't log in even. You know, it's just I, I'm enough of a creative and a sensitive person that. That totally kills me that people do that. And that's just a human behavior and it's not my responsibility, but that's the reality.

Leah. So what I know about your business is you're generally in the coaching space, not in the Internet marketing coaching space, not in the, not really even in the business coaching space, in kind of a sub niche.

In the overall coaching world. Are you aware that there are people that have taken a coaching model and gone and productized that or gone one to many. Are you aware of those types of models or, or are you right now unable to see how you could pivot away from being the centerpiece of the whole business?

Yeah, we've considered that kind of model for a long time and what it would take. I mean, I look at a brand like digital market or whatever and they've done something like that. And I've considered how we could do that and the amount of effort it would take to truly transition and we. I just feel like I'm. I don't know that I'm up for it. I don't know that I'm up for it. I don't know that my heart's in it enough to put in that kind of effort. Because I, I've always wanted to have an eight figure business and I thought, oh, we could do it if we did this and own. I don't know, I'm just not there.

You're so. What I really heard you say, without you saying the words, was not that your heart wasn't in it, but that you were burnt from the past.

Yeah, I'm burnt. Yes.

The energy reserves are kind of tapped.

Yeah. And I think I don't want to be the main person.

This whole business as it is goes away if I go away. And I'm tired of that.

Okay, tell me why you think that's the case.

Because.

The way.

The revenue and profit, for example, the way the structure works for me to delegate and offload all the other things like copywriting and.

All the other things that involve me in the marketing department. Because it's me, it's my voice. The business is successful because it was based around my story and my voice. I was the copywriter. I'm kind of like you.

In, in the personality and the charismatic person in the face. And I'm definitely, I'm a purple cow in, in who I am and why I stand out. And.

That is hard to Replace. I think in any business, that's difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. And then what I was going to say about the revenue profit is for us to offload that. I don't know that the business would be profitable anymore by the time you've hired all the people to make up for me.

Leah, are you open to some coaching on this call?

Sure. That's why I'm talking to you.

Okay. You are basing your business on a whole lot of assumptions that may or may not be true.

And the reason why you have fallen into the trap that you're in or that you feel that you're in is because you have allowed those assumptions to run the decisions that you make in your business. For example, you have assumed that if you go away, the business dies. Therefore, you haven't built an adequate team that could take over in your absence. You've also assumed that the business is successful because of your story and your own input. Therefore, you haven't allowed to take a week off in a long time because you view the business as dependent upon Leah. Am I saying anything that's untrue? So far.

Yes. I have beliefs around that for more than one reason. It's not. It's not. I would say it's not just because I'm making the assumption. I. We have tried to move toward a different model and it just hasn't worked.

That and then I've had counsel, advice from other mentors and stuff saying, listen, these information businesses have a shelf life of five years, and then you need to find something else.

Yeah, you need to get yourself a new mentor.

That's just simply untrue. That's somebody who has just never had an information products business last more than five years. I mean, have you heard of Agora Publishing? Have you heard of Tony Robbins?

Heard of Dean Graziosi?

Yeah.

Do you know who Carlton Sheets is? I mean.

These are information businesses can last for decades. That's just a shitty business owner who says an information products business lasts only five years. That's just a bad business. That is a solopreneur who is making offers, not businesses.

Well, that person, one person told me, is a super successful business guy, but he did sell his information business. So I know, I. Ryan, I'm so conflicted because I listen, I listen to you. I highly value your opinion. And I hear so many, you know, there's so many opinions and there's so many views in the business world. And it does make it pretty confusing because I take people and their. And their experience very seriously because they have.

Obviously experienced more than I have, and so that makes it so.

I would like to bring you a lot of clarity in this call, and I think we can do that. So I don't think you are as conflicted as you think you are. I actually think you have a lot of clarity, but you are. Where you are experiencing conflict is you are listening to the opinions of a lot of other people that you perceive to be smarter than you. For example, you started off this conversation by telling me that you really like and care about your clients, but you're also pulled by the opinions of people who are not your clients and your customers.

If you value people who are not paying you money, yes, you're going to feel conflict. You also said that you. You. You are proud of the business, you feel confident in the business, but that the opinions of a lot of different mentors and coaches can sway you. So if. If we just dial into where Leah is, we're going to find a lot of clarity. So tell me if this is true. Leah cares about her clients and customers.

Yes. I care about. Pretty deeply about people, yes.

Okay, great. And your clients and customers come to you for a specific result that you think you can help them with?

Yes.

Great. You were really confident in saying that. And you're confident that if these clients and customers come to you for a specific result, you're able to deliver on that promise?

No. And the reason why is because they.

Let's say, 95% of it. I'm the 5%. They're the 95% in terms of. I teach you what you need to know, but you have to do it.

Mm. Go on.

So I don't like. I don't like. I can't sleep at night knowing that 95% of people aren't doing a damn thing with what I've given them. It hurts my feelings, but it. And it. I don't like that. I don't like that part of this. This industry because.

Well.

The hesitation here in my voice is because you're equating your industry with the Internet marketing and information product.

Industry.

Isn't that across the board that, like most people never do anything with the products they buy?

But that's. That's the truth. With fitness equipment, that's the true. With weight loss programs, that's the true. With. With college degrees, of course.

And that's the only reason why I do sleep at night is because I know that.

So.

Yeah, you don't have an issue with delivering on the result. You don't have a challenge with profit you don't have a challenge with getting exposure. You don't have a challenge on getting your committed students results. The only thing that you have a challenge with is that you have made up a problem.

About you being responsible to provide an ROI on the money that people have invested in you. Now, there's a couple ways to address that. You could look at your onboarding processes and you could take the approach of you're going to invest.

15% of the profits of every sale into a coach that does one call with those people, or you write an onboarding email sequence to get people involved, or you come up with a wit. What's that?

We do all those things. Great.

Awesome. So, yeah. Is it true that the people who follow your training get results?

Yes.

Okay. So the only job that you have is to provide the resources and to stack the deck to make it easy for your clients and your customers to follow the plan that you've laid out for them. Do you have any resistance to that?

No.

I wish I could go into more detail with you on this business because I feel like. I feel like you're trying to persuade me to keep the business and I kind of don't want it anymore.

Well, I'm trying to get you to see that the business isn't the problem, you're the problem.

I get that.

And that by you selling the business, you are simply selling. What you're really after is not selling the business. What you're after is the relief of the tension that you feel around the business. And that if I can give you the relief around the tension of the business, then you can either take your energy into the business and build the exact business that you wanted in the first place, or you can make little tweaks in the business that make it scalable so that it is more sellable and you get a lot more money. Right now, we're taking the approach that you have a box full of problems that you want to give to someone and hope that you get a payday for it. When in reality, what you want is for the box full of problems to go away. And the box full of problems you've manufactured as a is really just a box full of assumptions. And if I can get you to see that, then you'll have the same freedom that you would experience if you sold the business. Because right now you're already aware that people don't want to buy a box full of problems and they don't want to buy a.

Business that is centered around a single person who is doing everything. So Your challenges aren't even financial. Your challenges are around the problems that you want to fix by selling the business, which are really a matter of operations within it. Does that make sense?

Yeah, no, that, that does make sense. I have a hard time imagining this business shifting it into a different model. Like what? What that, Like, I can imagine how it could potentially operate. Just we have not been able to successfully do that. And I don't know.

Let me ask the question a little bit differently.

What if the business model didn't have to change?

If the business model was exactly the same, where is the tension or resistance?

It's in the expectations of our customers.

Is it of your customers or is it of yourself?

I believe it's of the customers. And then that gets projected onto me. And then I'm like, well, the only way people, they want to learn from me. I know it sounds so egotistical and self centered to say that, but they want to learn from me.

Time and time again, I am telling you you're wrong.

But that's what they tell us on sales calls. Why are you here?

I know they say that, but what they really want is the result.

I agree.

That is. So the way that you solve this problem is by if you're going to keep using your story as the highlight, your story is the result of the systems and processes that are put into your training school.

Agreed.

And if somebody wants to work with you, you have a certain. Like this solved a lot of challenges in my business. If someone says, I want to work with Ryan, we go, oh, you want to work with Ryan.

Okay.

His coaching fee is $100,000 for six months. Do you want me to put you in touch with his assistant?

Mm, yeah, that's it. And if someone says yes, I take the damn call.

Yeah.

And if someone says no, I can't do that. Okay, great. Well then let's work with the assets that we've got right now, which is the training that you purchased. So you're either setting up assumptions in your sales letter that suggest that the person is getting access directly to you, or you need to set a certain level of expectation of the product itself being so good that they don't need you. You have a communication problem more than anything else.

Okay, so my brain goes here. I'm like, I'm with you. I'm tracking with you. I'm good with that. We can easily change out wording in emails and positioning, but let's say I want to get out of the marketing 100%. Like, I want to own the business. I don't want to run the business anymore. Yeah, that. That. I mean, you're. You know, we need somebody on the front end who's. Who can do the webinars, who can do this, that, and the other thing. It's.

I don't know that we can afford that person. I don't think we can. I mean, the business can't at the moment. So what do you do at that point?

I totally understand what you're asking here, because I faced this myself. So are you selling the majority of your trainings via webinar right now?

No, that's the marketing channel. That's how we get them in.

And then how are they sold?

It's courses. Courses. And then there's some. We have a couple big programs. One of the levels, the higher level, is there is actual coaching involved, but we've already. I've already delegated. I have other coaches doing those coaching calls for the most time. So, you know, that. That did provide some relief, but I'm. I don't have enough relief. Like, I. I just feel like this thing is draining my soul. The whole thing.

Come, come, come back. Come back to the primary soul sucker right now, which sounds like it's marketing.

Yeah.

I asked a question. Is webinar the primary way that you are driving revenue right now? And you said no.

Oh, I thought you meant delivering the content. Okay, yes. Yes, it is.

And is it live webinar?

We do both live and recorded.

Live always converts so much better than recorded. So then we do that. We have. So since 2016. We did one live launch, and then the whole thing went on. Evergreen. We could never get it to perform as well after that. And there was some major algorithm shifts on Facebook and things like that. And the Evergreen model is just. We haven't been able to grow in that model. And so just this year, we're switching back. We're going 100% launch model. Only because it works. It seems to work better.

It works well. But you hate it.

Oh, yeah. You know what? I even hate making curriculum. I love helping. I love transformations. I hate recording curriculum. It drains my soul.

You are just like Melia.

Mm. I know. You're like my long lost brother, to be honest. It's like, what the heck?

You are. You are exactly like me. I hate. I would rather make my stuff free then put it behind a paywall.

Mm.

It feels gross. It feels icky. It feels it. I don't like it at all.

Yeah.

So I'm not saying that this is the model you should follow. Let Me just tell you how I've addressed it.

Since you follow my work, when was the last time you saw me do a live webinar?

Never.

Yeah, there you go. So I just said this was my thought process on this live webinars work. I should do a live webinar. I resist every time I go to do a live webinar. So it obviously doesn't work for me. So I'm not gonna do that anymore.

The model works for plenty of people. I'm not one of those people. Are there people that exist that make tons of money not doing live webinars? Yeah. So there are. Are there other ways to do just as well not doing live webinars? Well, I would have to say yes. Okay. So if we look at my model, I don't even consider myself a product company. I'm a community first company. I'm talking to you right now because you're part of our community.

Our events are all about building community.

It's. It is like we do workshops and live events because it's all like, all I care about is making community. I'm paid to create community.

And transformation happens within the context of community. Now that's the model I've taken because that is what I want to be the foundation of the business. So I don't do webinars or anything like that. What I do instead, I like doing whiteboard videos. Put me in front of a whiteboard, I'll talk all day.

So I record what you might consider on demand presentations or webinars. But my only work is I have six bullet points. I go in front of a whiteboard, Chris hits record, and I start talking.

And my call to action is less than optimized. And my copy is not read from a script, but I'll do it.

And then we run some traffic to it and see if it converts. And if it does, cool, we run it some more. And if we don't? If it doesn't, then we try something else, but only what feels fun.

Yeah. And I think that's where I'm at. This business doesn't feel fun to me. I started a new business, as you know, and that's a lot of fun. You know what is nice about a physical product business in. Well, at least in this particular one, is I don't have to educate people before they buy. They see it, they like it, they buy it, end of story.

Yep, that's right.

It's so easy compared to this.

Well, I don't know. There are plenty of physical products, people who go well, those information products people haven't made, they don't have cost of goods sold, they don't have to do with Amazon algorithms, they don't have to deal with shipping. Their profit margins are great. They can do upsells. It's easy to build an audience. Every business has its challenges, right? So your challenges are really, really clear to me that there are things on your plate right now that you don't want to do. And there are things on your plate that you think that if you did them, would help the business grow and make more money. But the fact is that you don't want to amplify the problems that you currently have. So you're in resistance to the things that are going to grow the business. Especially since those aren't the things that you envisioned yourself doing when you ran a seven figure company. You envisioned yourself doing the things that you thought were fun and the things that made you excited and the things that created transformations. Those are the things that you envisioned yourself doing once you hit seven figures. Is that correct?

Yeah.

I have to think about that one, but I.

Don'T know what I envisioned.

Well, then let's focus on what you didn't envision. You did not envision yourself doing things you hate after you had a seven figure business.

Yeah, well, that's true.

Okay, so.

I don't think I recognize that I've. I don't think that I have recognized that I've hated half the stuff I do for a long time. I finally am at the place where I'm admitting it.

That's right. That's great. And I want you to know that on the other side of that, shit gets real good.

Now I'm. Now, this is not what you want to hear. And this is where you kind of fought me like 10 minutes ago and you were like, I think you're trying to convince me to keep the business.

When you are on this side of this realization, you can't sell the business and you can't scale the business.

On the other side of this realization that you're having right now, you can either scale the business or sell the business.

So you have choice.

On the other side of this right now, you are responding to the stress and what feels like entrapment to you of, I have all these things that I think I have to do and I don't want them. Especially since this business isn't feeling rewarding for me right now. And so the best thing that you can do, the best thing you can possibly do is be rewarded by this business. Right now.

That means not doing things you don't want to do.

So what are some of the things on your plate right now that you don't want to do?

Creating all the curriculum. Cool.

Does it already have a curriculum?

It does. And I'm currently updating it for the launch coming up.

Got it. What else don't you want to do?

If I. Here's where I'm torn. Is because I'm really good at doing certain things, that's fine.

But it's about what you want, it's not what you're good at. I'm great at webinars.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would just say all of the marketing, like the copywriting, the emails, the doing videos for ads, all of that stuff just I don't want to show, have to show my face and like I don't want to do my hair.

Awesome. So all of this is. All of this, the writing the copy, the doing the webinars, the showing up on video, the creating the curriculum is you having to show up, you having to do something for the customer that you perceive isn't even going to do anything with the curriculum. So what's the frickin point?

Exactly. And not only are they not gonna do it, but the rest of them complain, complain. Or call me a scam artist or whatever. My name's getting dragged through the mud. Why would I do that?

Yes.

I'm not valued. I'm not valued. That's how I feel.

I totally get it. I completely get it, Leah. 1,000%. That is a soul draining business.

Yep.

So there's a few things that I want you to know. One, you don't have to do any of those things. It's your fucking business.

It's not the client's business, it's not the customer's business, not your employees business, it's your fucking business. You can do whatever the hell you want.

Now. The tension that you feel in your brain is one gives you a result of keeping the engine going.

Whereas not showing up would make you really happy for just a little bit.

Yeah, I know I would get the itch to help people for free. I'd probably, if I shut it all down, if it all went away, I would just start giving advice for free because I have to. I just can't help it.

And how would you go about doing it?

I mean, I have a podcast and I would, I don't know, I just, I would just start a new podcast. I would just do that.

Okay, so if you started the new podcast, what would, what would Be different about the podcast.

Why a new podcast versus the existing podcast?

Well, I mean, I could, I'm putting in a scenario, like if I. If it went. If that whole business went away or someone bought it and the podcast went with that. And that's why I was saying that. But. Or I would just whatever. Or I would, I'd make myself available for private consulting or something like that where. Because that's more rewarding to me is people who value my advice, they actually do something with it. Like I have a friend that I do give free advice and she appreciates it, she values it. She actually goes and does something with it. She says, thank you, you know, and that, I mean, you know, we send 10 minute voice messages back and forth and I'll do that all day because I care. And she's.

And it's fun.

It's fun and she values it. That's why.

So the purpose of business, Leah, is to make what you believe to be meaningful, sustainable. Let me say that differently. The purpose of business is to allow you to do what is meaningful all the time.

That's the purpose of business. And right now you have built a business that allows you to do what is not meaningful all the time. That's a soul sucking business.

Yeah.

So the transformation that if you choose to go through it, you'll have to allow yourself to do is to stop doing the things that you perceive to be not meaningful. And those things right now are doing launches, writing copy, coming up with new Facebook ads.

Updating a curriculum that you already know is really good. And the reason you're updating it is because you need a new reason to do another launch so you can write more copy and create more ads and do more things that are not meaningful.

All of those things.

Yeah. So I have to replace me.

No, no, no, no, no. You don't have to do anything. What you just said is I have all these things that are not meaningful to me, so I need to make sure that those not meaningful things keep going so I can do something else.

Yeah, that does. I can't see right now how it would be different because that's what worked. That's what's made millions of dollars. How do I, you know, like, I am a little bit stuck there.

Mm. Meaning you're getting the financial result, but you're not getting the life result that you wanted.

Correct.

Okay, so let me ask you this.

What is the piece that has worked? Is it selling a product that sells on some sort of evergreen system that.

May or may not require you? What Is the actual financial driver that is working in terms of dollars in.

Up until this point it has. Okay, there's two, there's two, two big programs. The, the first tier, we'll say the main driver up until this point has been an evergreen system. Yes. With, with a webinar. So I'm not. But I, I have to do copy frequently. It feels like a hamster wheel of marketing where you just always try to, oh, Facebook changed something and you know, you know, so you're having to do. Put out new content all the time.

The second, higher tier one, it's a newer program that we close sales over the phone and that. And that is great. So that doesn't require me at all.

Okay.

But people come in knowing they're drawn to the result because I sell that result in all the content I put out.

No, they're attracted to the results because they can see themselves in the story that you tell. That converts correct.

Yeah. Yes.

It has nothing to do with you. You think you're way too important.

I wish I wasn't.

No, I'm telling you you're not. Good news, Leah.

Well, that is good news.

So there are lots of ways to tell stories that don't elicit a promise you can't keep.

You can tell your customer's story. You can make Facebook ads that are just about your customer. The story can be around your own transformation that is the result of you discovering certain systems and processes that allow you to only do the things that you enjoy now. So now why would the customer think that they're going to get your attention? You're off doing what you think is enjoyable.

I think it's.

It's not. Oh, it has to be me. I think I have a gift of communication and communicating that and I would love to find other team members that could communicate that.

In a way that.

Gives people hope.

You're talking about in an ad, right?

Yes, I'm talking about all the front end marketing. All of it. Whether it's the email copy I have yet.

But you've told me that's all done.

No, there's a hamster wheel of content that has to happen whether it's through. No, there's always content requests of me, like. So we need new ad copy.

An assumption, Leah.

What do you mean?

All hamster wheels are assumptions that things have to keep going when they don't.

So if I stop writing ad copy and doing videos and webinars and stuff like that, then what.

Are you using those ads and those videos in an evergreen system. Right. Now.

We have. I'll say up until now. Up until this point, yes. We're turning it all off because we're doing a launch so.

Well, hold on. And are those ads working enough to be profitable within the business?

They fatigue over time. That's common.

What's over time? What's over time?

It could be a few weeks, it could be a month, it could be two months. It just depends. We don't know until we put it out there and test it.

Okay, so every month or so, your ads fatigue and your reaction to that is to make new content, is that right?

Usually Facebook wants new content.

Hold on. That's an assumption. I'm asking about you. Your reaction is you make new content, is that right?

I only do what works. I don't have time to waste, so I'm not making content for no reason.

I know. What I'm trying to get you to see, Leah, is that you have a belief that when something breaks, you have to be the one who fixes it. And the story you have behind that is, well, I'm good at fixing it because I'm a good storyteller, I'm a good communicator, I'm a good content writer. And therefore you go in and you do something about it, even though you hate it. Now, if you were shown that there were other ways to fix the same problem that were easier, less stressful, might even convert better, that your team could handle without you, could you step away and chill for a bit?

Absolutely.

Cool. Are you open to the suggestion that that is possible?

Of course.

Are you aware that other people do it?

Yes. And this brings me back to my previous question.

That type of. That type of team is expensive, and I see all the profit going away.

Hold on, hold on.

If you could do it with your existing infrastructure, would that bring you some relief?

What do you mean by infrastructure?

Current team.

I don't think that's possible.

If you could. So you. You really like to battle for your assumptions.

I'm just trying to be realist, honestly. Like I.

Everyone thinks they're a real list, and that's why everyone has a base of assumptions that they defend.

Yeah. I'm also a visionary, so you'd think I'd be the first one to. To see it all.

Well, my guess is that you're really good at seeing it for other people.

Maybe, But I'm open to.

If I. If I didn't have to change a single thing and take all the. All the stuff that I hate off my plate.

Sure. Show me how do you have a good project manager or right hand person.

Yes. And they are wearing already way too many hats.

Okay, well that's because you have dumped all the things that you think are not meaningful unto them and so they're doing a bunch of things that are not meaningful too. You see, the thing that you will learn, Leah, is that you will either scale or sell this business when you start doing less.

And that's the first thing that a person who is buying your business is going to look at. They're going to say, can I cut 80% of these systems and processes? Nobody wants your business right now because you hate it.

Actually, you don't hate it. You hate the role that you are playing within the context of it.

Yeah.

And your project manager or your right hand person is the same. They probably really believe in you and believe in the business, but they want to make you happy. They want to make the clients happy. And so this person is jumping in to solve a bunch of problems, 80 of which, 80% of which could be eliminated if Leah just did what made her happy.

And so.

The way that you could solve your evergreen problem, and thus your launch problem.

Is every time you make content, every time you do a podcast, every time you have a testimonial, every time you have a case study that someone makes, and you could either even make it part of their graduation.

In the product that they create a video that summarizes what they learned and what they're doing with it. And that would probably increase your consumption rate too, because there's a clear end point to what they have to do in order to get what is ever on the other side of their graduation. You take all those pieces and you have your project manager document them and hand them over to one outsourcer who is a video editor to create mashups, compilations and clips that now become your new tests in your ad campaigns. I'd recommend that they feature you and your company as little as possible. What will do really well for you is if you start making your customer the hero rather than Leah the hero. You have a very self centered business. The spotlight's on you, the story is you, the copy is you. And therefore you're playing the role of an actor who has to show up for work every day rather than a business person who is creating something that is changing people's lives. So the pivot for you is if you can start having your team look for where they can make the customer and the client the hero. That looks like celebrating their progress when they complete a module and doing it publicly. That means taking the screenshots that people send you of positivity and making it your social media content. It looks like when people create the course and they submit their video, that becomes the new ad. You see, right now you are really, really tuned for problems. Your attention is really, really well, well tuned to find problems in your business. And so you're on this hamster wheel of fixing them. But if you switch that and you start looking for the great success stories, even if it's only 5% of people who are making progress, or the 5% of people who tell you how amazing you are and that you should raise your prices, or the 5% of people that you love working with so much that you would joyfully hop on the call with them and help them for free, like I'm doing right now.

If all of your attention went to that 5%, it would flip. And that would be 95% of your customers and clients. Scouts, honor. I promise you that's the case.

Yeah, no, that's really good.

Would you think out loud for a moment?

Yeah, I'm processing. I.

Whoa. Can you still hear me?

Yeah, loud and clear.

Okay. Okay.

I.

I'm just processing everything you said there.

So process out loud because we either struck a really important nerve or we really pissed you off there. So process out loud.

Okay, so I.

We are, we are actually doing some of those things already because we've had to. I have other endeavors, I have other things I'm doing. But we need to go all the way, I think from based off of what you're saying, just all the way customer.

Centric, customer focus in the marketing.

I guess, you know, facts tell, stories sell. So I've always been under the impression that it had to be me and my story because it is unique. And like I said, it was an easy. It was easy to launch this business and make sales because I was a purple cow who I am, my family situation. I'm the least likely person to have had success doing what I do. And so that was a very unique story and it's something relatable.

If I may. I'm sorry to interrupt your processing, but really what happened is your story played perfectly into the Internet marketing strategy that you know very well.

Yeah, I guess it did.

And that's why you're stuck in the launch model too, because you've never made the pivot of taking piggybacking off of that success and building a real business. You've built a marketing company.

So model wise, I mean, I don't.

I don't even honestly. And this is part of the problem with this, with this company is I don't even know what I would want it to become if I didn't wasn't doing launch models. I mean, it's an. It's an education company. It's. But it's a marketing company like you said. So I don't even know.

What I want for it.

Good.

I lost my vision. Like, I don't even have a vision.

Yes. She got it, ladies and gentlemen. She got it. So. Oh, I'm so happy you just said that. That's exactly right. Most entrepreneurs at your level, when they burn out, burn out because they are doing things that are not meaningful and they have lost connection with the vision that they have for their business because they have succeeded in creating a financial engine that pays for their life and their family's lives. But now that is boring. And it doesn't make sense to show up every day and to keep building an engine that is not meaningful and fulfilling. So your only job right now is to get bored so that you can say, hmm, what do I want to do next? What would I want this company to be? No entrepreneur can have a vision when they're burnt out because their only vision is, give me the business that is somewhat fun. Give me the business that doesn't require me to work 14 hours a day doing shit I hate. That's the only vision you've got capacity for. But when you've got juice again, when you start to get that flicker of inspiration that you had when you started this thing, however many years ago, when you start to feel that excitement that you feel when you get off the phone with your friend who says, thank you, I'm going to go do something with this. When you start to feel the charge of enthusiasm that you experience when your students post positive things about you on social media and you see them start to grow, when that starts to take life again, you start to get inspiration again to create a vision that you can cast. And it won't come from a cast place of being tense and stressed and overwhelmed. It will come from a place where you feel on top of things, like you are calling your students to the top of the mountain where you currently live. Do you understand that?

Yeah. How do I get that back?

So here's like the tactical mechanism, Leah, the tactical mechanism that you can start to think about on your to do list.

Actually, the first thing I'd probably tell you is look at your to do list and say how many things that you do are on There that do you actually want to do? Your answer will be zero. And I'll be like, great, get rid of them all. That would. Now, if, if you were paying me for advice, that would be my real advice. But since I know you're looking for like the transition here, here's what I would recommend. I would recommend that you meet with your right hand person and you say, I'm just going to call this person. Adam. Adam, listen. I would really like to start setting the precedent that we start making things easier and simpler around here. And I'd like for us to only focus on how do we create better results for our students and make them the hero rather than Leah the hero. I'm starting to realize that when we create a business around my story and around my success, that it then creates an expectation that I show up, which is really stressing both you and me out right now. Now I want to show up. I want to do coaching calls and the things I want to do. But right now I think we need to start setting the precedent that our students are the hero of the story, not me. And I think we need to start developing the systems and processes that are allow me to go fuel up again so that I can cast the vision that you and I both really need right now. Because we're doing a lot of things that are not meaningful. And I want to make your life easier and my life easier. So here's what I want to do first. From now forward, every time we make a piece of content that we're really proud of, and every time our students give us any sort of love in the form of a social media post or in a video, I want to start documenting it and sharing it with the rest of the company. And the really good ones, I want to run as ads just to see if we can get close to matching what we're running right now. So if we've got a student testimonial that's on video, that's awesome. I want to split test it against what we're running right now. And I want to tell their story as a split test against my story. And in time, I want to start getting more of those kinds of stories. And maybe there's ways for us to incentivize people to start giving us more feedback. Maybe we can start incentivizing people to give us those videos. Maybe we can even, even make that part of their graduation so that they're incentivized to complete the next module and the next module and the next module. And if we have Their permission. I'd like to run those pieces as mashups, as a split test against the content that has my face on it right now. And I don't know if it's gonna work, but I want to find out if it's gonna work. Because if it works, it completely removes me as the bottleneck of marketing, and it completely removes my story as the only story that matters here at the company. And if we do that, it allows me to step away a little bit and think about new ideas that I can bring to the table. You see where I'm going with this, Leah?

Oh, yeah, don't worry.

We recorded it. If you want me to. If you want to just give that. Exactly. To your project manager.

Yeah, I'll just type out a transcript. I'll hire somebody to type it out.

So that's. That's like your tactical opening move. Your tactical opening move is that meeting and that precedent to start getting the internal good stuff that's happening and giving that the platform. If we look at this differently, Leah, right now, your content is the documentation of you teaching things. What I want you to think about is the documentation of your students results. The good ones, the ones that you want more of. Those are the ones that you amplify.

Yep.

One of our base products@capitalism.com is a course called Million Dollar Brands. And if someone does the work and fills out a form, they get their money back. And if someone then completes the form, they're then entered into a scholarship where I might fund them. And as part as that process, they create a brand video that highlights what they did with the material and what their brand looks like. And then we take the best ones and we ask their permission. Would you be open to us sharing it on social media? You know what that does, Leah? It allows me to give them a platform for them to have customers the minute they're ready to launch. And it gives me an amazing testimonial to amplify on social media, which makes me look really good without me ever appearing in an ad. How did that happen? Because I made the customer the hero, and I know that my only job is to serve as the Yoda of. To millions of Luke Skywalkers.

Yeah, absolutely. That's. It's brilliant. And.

That'S a change we can make immediately.

And does it give you a little bit of relief?

A little bit. It doesn't solve every problem I know.

But a little bit of relief it does. Cool.

I'm gonna do it.

Great. That's your opening move. Do you want to Know what your next step will be?

Pay you for coaching?

If you would like. Yes. Capitalism.com backroom. There's an application where you can work with me directly. However, before you even do that, there's another move that you can make.

Great.

And that is to schedule a week off.

Oh, geez.

When was the last time you did that?

A year and a half ago.

Long time. Yeah.

No, no, no. I had November, but that was forced vacation.

And did the world fall apart on that forced vacation?

No.

Yeah. In fact, did your team perform at least like status quo?

Yeah.

Okay, great. So this time you're going to schedule a week off and have the team know that you're going to have that week off at least, let's say, 30 to 60 days in advance.

Yeah.

So give them 60 days of heads up that you're going on vacation this week. And the biggest thing that's standing in your way of you being able to step away is those marketing processes running on their own. Is that correct?

Yes.

Great. So we know what the tactical pivot is that's going to help them start to gather their own marketing materials. And you're going to step away about 60 days from now for a week and see if the business can run itself. Besides the marketing department, is there anything else that is really, really stressing you.

Out besides the marketing department?

Uh.

Cash flow.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to tell me more about that?

Well, the business is profitable. We take salaries. My husband and I work together. We take salary. And mainly it's just always a strain that we're relying on this business for that salary. And because we. We've. We've definitely hit a ceiling. And I'm sure if we were to break through that and actually build a real company like you said, that would help. But I also. I also want. We. We want to diversify as well. Like, I don't want this to be the only business we have and the only source. You know, it's. It's difficult.

Do you need more?

Not really. What you really said was the lack of stability or predictability in the business causes you mental stress. And because you're in that mental stress, it makes you try to hurry up and force the business to give you more money. And that's actually the problem that is causing the stress in the business. It's kind of like you're familiar with the idea of adrenal fatigue.

Oh, yeah.

So there's. It's kind of like when somebody is struggling with adrenal fatigue, and what they really need is to go in the woods and like go camping and what they're actually doing is drinking one more cup of coffee.

You're kind of doing the same thing in the business where if you were to take a step back and get a bird's eye view of the business, you could see where it would be more profitable and you would chill out too. So if you chilled out and you took a bird's eye view, kind of like an owner in an ownership mentality, then you could adjust the things in the business that need to be adjusted and you would make more money. But your approach right now is you're already stressed about the business so you're looking to squeeze a little bit more out so that you can relax a little bit, but you're causing company adrenal fatigue in the process.

So that's why I suggest that you take the week off 60 days from now. Because here's what I predict will happen. If you take that week off and you really charge by about day three or four, the mental chatter in your brain will shut the hell up and you'll be able to see the business from the outside for the first time. And when you do that, you'll be able to see that the high end piece of your business that you said you were really happy with is your ticket to making it more profitable. So you'll start to think about how can I put more energy into that high ticket thing and double that versus run more ads or do more content? How could I take that one profit center from half a million dollars or a million dollars to 2x that? And you'll realize that it takes a lot less effort and stress than all of the stuff you're doing right now. And you go, well, this is stupid. I'm going to stop doing all this low level shit and I'm going to put more energy into thing that's actually moving the needle. And then you'll experience a whole lot of financial relief. Now that is what an owner is going to do if they come in and buy your business. And at that point now you've made the switch of thinking like an owner and you can either decide to do it for yourself and keep the business and all the profits, or you can come up with that as a plan and put it in your going to market materials and the person who buys it will see it and see where they can grow more profit in the business. And that's why this very long conversation that you, I think hate me for a little bit.

Has gotten to this point of that's what the same thing has to happen if you want to scale the business or if you want to sell the business. It's the same set of decisions.

Now, that is something that is very clear to me now.

Would you specify what's that?

The same thing has to happen. I have to do less. The business has to run itself. Whether I want to scale it or I want to sell it, the same thing has to happen. It's not even going to be attractive to a buyer until it's at that point anyway.

That's true. Now, the words, it has to run itself self, that, that's a tall order right now because you're so in it. It's true. But it's not something that you can just start working at right now. You can, you can start to unplug that gap a little bit. Yeah, you have. If we think about it as not the business has to run itself, but that you have to have a clear, replaceable role.

Yeah.

You have to have a clear role that is not just firefighter 18 hours a day, which is kind of the role you're playing right now.

Yeah. And then as for like.

Content creation.

Even curriculum and things like that, would you recommend, like, finding other people who can do those things?

Well.

I'm torn on this, Leah, because I suspect that the content and the curriculum that you have is good enough.

It is. It's just the updates are, like you said, for something new, but then also because if there's social media, if there's stuff in there that's changed, you kind of have to update it.

Yeah.

Do you, though? I mean, I mean, maybe once a year.

Yeah. Yeah.

And if your content is as good as you say it is, it's small stuff that doesn't really need to be updated. And if it does need to be updated, could it be something that you see as an opportunity to give one of your coaches the platform to be able to take the reins on that and you endorse them. So now also the content features more people than just Leah.

Yeah.

Or you have this rock star student that you want to make the hero and you say, could you come teach that to other people who are following in your footsteps? Could I light your fire and give you a platform so that you've got a little bit of a following? I bet these people also consume. Follow your other business, but could I give you a platform for you to teach that? And they teach an entire module. Watch how fast people show up for that, Leah.

Yeah, that's a really good point. Really good idea.

So now you're starting. It's not immediate, but you're starting to unplug the expectation that whenever there's a problem, Leah jumps in and fixes it?

Yeah.

Does that give you a little bit of relief?

Yes.

Where's the hesitation?

My brain is all over. My brain immediately goes into the how, how this, how that, how this, how that. So once those problems start getting solved one by one, I'll start getting excited. In the meantime, I'm thinking about the how in the logistics, and I understand. Yeah.

What's the how? That is punching in the face right now.

The how. Punching me in the face would be.

I think. Yeah. The other necessary team members will probably need to get it to this point and then like the cash flow situation.

Because I think to get somebody really good, say I get somebody.

Hold on, hold on. To get someone good is another thing on your to do list.

Is it fair to say that if the business kept making the exact amount of money that it's making right now and you only had to work two hours a week, that it would solve 80% of your problems.

From a cash flow standpoint?

From a life standpoint.

Oh, life standpoint.

Yes.

I understand that you want to make more money.

Correct.

I also know that you're not going to make more money working at the level that you're working right now. And so your first move is to get to the point where the business is operating more efficiently so that you can be more creative. And when you are creative, you will then make more money. And when you are more creative, you'll have a much clearer vision and understanding for what you will want from a person whose job it is to drive revenue and sales. You will not get that clarity when you're operating from a place of stress and overwhelm.

Agreed.

So your job right now is to chill.

Okay.

We're doing a launch. So once that's, you know, chilling is.

It'Ll have to be put off a little bit, but so.

After it's over.

So I just want to point out a thought process to you.

Yep.

Leah wants to make more money. Leah is already stressed. Leah's strategy to fix this problem is to do a launch. So Leah stops doing the thing that is making her money right now, which is running Evergreen sales processes, and she stops running the product that is already good enough. And she instead puts her energy into creating new marketing materials, which she hates to do, and updating course curriculum, which she doesn't want to do, and starts putting that on a pedestal, saying that she will do all the things that she wants to do that she knows will grow the business after she has finished doing all of these things that she said that she was going to do. In the meantime, she has more and more stress mounting because the cash flows that were coming in are less now. And the things that are on her to do list that she doesn't want to do are more war now. And she's committed to it to solve the problem of less cash and less things that she doesn't want to do. Do you see how you've perpetuated the problem?

Yeah. There are.

Obligations. Like, it's kind of in motion. So I don't know if I. Yeah, by that I mean like the launch is kind of in motion. I don't. I don't think I can. Well, I could just pull the plug, but that would suck for everybody else involved.

Who would it suck for?

Everyone.

Who's everyone?

All the partners.

Affiliates.

Yeah.

You already have commitments from affiliates. Will they promote whether there's a launch or not?

We have. I don't know. I get. Maybe.

Yeah, it would also. I, I don't like putting in tons of time and effort in something and then just say, just kidding, forget it.

So here, let's reframe this a little bit. The word launch in Internet marketing world assumes stress and newness and doing it all over again.

That's not how it works in the rest of the world.

When Apple launches a new product, they don't stop selling their other ones. When Apple launches a new product, it is. Everyone knows that it's coming and there's been buildup and expectations that it's just the next version coming out.

True.

When Apple does a product launch, there's excitement and anticipation, not stress and overwhelm. Now, an engineer might be looking to meet a deadline, but from the outside perspective, it's just the next logical step in the evolution of the business. That's how real business is done.

Yeah.

In the marketing world, we put all of our energy on what is the best way to market that. And that means scarcity, time, deadlines, having everyone lined up on the same date with perfect copy. So we prioritize the marketing versus the development of the business. This is why marketers are on a hamster wheel, because they don't build businesses.

If you have a switch to an ownership mentality and you lessen the stress around marketing, which may mean asking it might be as simple as asking the question, how do I make this launch fun and easy?

You know, my buddy JP Sears asked that question a few years ago. He Was like, how do I make my content less stressful and more fun? He's like, I think I just want to do one thing. Funny comedy video. And his videos went from an average of 500 views per video to 500,000 views per video because he prioritized the fun and the ease of it. He also has more haters now, just so you know.

Yep.

So if you prioritize. What I'm saying is, if you prioritize the fun and the ease of it, I predict then in the very short term, you will start to make more money, have more free time, and it will start to compound in the right direction.

Okay, I'm gonna let that sink in. I believe you.

I think that's a good move, letting that sink in.

Anything else stuck that we could loosen while you process?

Oh, probably. But how many. Yeah, I don't.

I don't want to take up any more of your time. It's. I. Your time is so valuable. I appreciated this conversation so much.

So, Leah, would you do me a favor and would you post in the 1% group like 30 days from now and just let everyone know about your progress?

I will do that.

Cool. Keep me posted. Let me know if you need anything.

Will do. Thank you so much.

You bet. It was great to connect with you.

You as well.

All right, take care.

Bye.

Hey, team. If you enjoyed today's podcast, please let me know on Twitter or Instagram. I'm Ryan Moran on Twitter and Ryan Daniel Moran over on Instagram. And if you're looking to start a business or you know somebody who's starting a new journey during this crazy time, you're wondering, what am I going to do next? You're wondering, what do I do with my time? You're wondering, where's the world going? My new book, 12 Months to 1 Million, is going to give you the clear plan to pick a winning product, to build a seven figure business, and to become a successful entrepreneur. This is for those of you who want to live life on your own terms. For those of you who are struggling with a lack of clarity, who are wondering, what am I going to do next? We're wondering, what's the path to building a successful business so that I live life on my own terms, I can call my own shots, and I don't have to go back to work after all of this craziness is over. If you're the type of person who has to be an entrepreneur, then. Then you've got to read this book. You can get on Amazon or if you're in a position to order multiple copies. You can book that over@capitalism.com book I'm so proud of this. So proud of this community for all that it has done. Thank you so much. I hope you love the book.