Fly-On-The-Wall Coaching Call: Behind The Scenes Of a 1-on-1 Session

What's up capitalists? In this episode, you're going to benefit from sitting in on a coaching call that I did with one of our members. His name is Ash. And Ash basically bought a three hour one on one with me. He did that because I made an offer here on the podcast that if you bought a certain number of books that you could have a half day with me. And so we tore up his business and rebuilt it. My team edited down into a more consumable experience, but you get to be a fly on the wall in one of my one on one coaching sessions with one of our members. And Ash was kind enough to share, to give us permission to be able to share this. So this is me working directly with an entrepreneur who has made some momentum, has a sticking point and is looking for a lot more. And we had a lot of breakthroughs. I had a ton of fun with Ash and I think he is going to kill it moving forward. So, Ash, I am rooting for you. The whole community is rooting for you. And give some love to Ash in the comments of this video or go support his business. You'll hear us talk about it in this episode. Enjoy this. And if you want to experience one on one calls like this, come join us inside the 1%@capitalism.com 1. Members can book times with me and then we record them and put them on the pod. So if you'd like to be grilled like this, it won't be three hours like Ash had, but if you'd like that experience, you can join us inside the members area.

What's up, dude? How are you?

How you doing? Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. I've been looking forward to chatting with you. So to start, give me. Let's imagine we're a year out from now and we're looking back on this conversation. What type of progress had to happen in order for you to be happy with everything that happened?

So we're about 500,000 a year at the moment in pounds. So like $600,000. So I'd say the first piece would be revenue getting up to a year from now. I'd like to be at least at the million pound mark. And then I've actually been doing this, just about to launch a second brand which is kind of inspired of you. Well, I mean, pretty much everything I've.

Done.

Thank you very much.

Well, look, because honestly, like, I'll tell you that a little bit of the backstory before I get into this. So I started it in 2016. And I was. That's roughly when I started listening to Freedom Fast Lane. So you can add me to your, hopefully to your millionaire business count at some point. But yes, I started this entire 2016 and I was working as a contractor at a bank and I should not be an employee. I'm a terrible employee.

Not very hard working when it's for other people.

So, yeah, anyway, so I was trying as hard as I could to get out of it. I was listening to your podcast every day, listening to all the success stories, and then I listened to obviously the Four Hour Work Week, Rich dad, poor dad, all that type of stuff. And I didn't have any better idea at the time of what business I wanted to do. I just knew I wanted to do a business. So I read the Four Hour Work Week and he did a nootropic. So I was like, okay, well, I don't have a better idea. I'll do a nootropic.

So, I mean, it's all evolved from there. You know, I've got a range now and I do enjoy, I do. But it still was never the passion project. And you've always talked about, you know, doing a business that you're passionate, really, really passionate about and an audience that you really engage with and all that sort of stuff. So I took a step back and said, what really would that be if I'm being 100% honest? And I love extreme sports. You know, I love my motocross, skateboarding, BMX surfing, whatever. Whether it's got an engine or anything, gives you a bit of adrenaline, sign me up. So I thought, okay, well, how can I transition or start something new in that? So basically, to cut. Long story short, I'm doing an extreme sports supplements brand because I can very easily use what I've got already and pivot with the branding and the audience to serve just a different audience, but with essentially more or less the same products.

That's great.

That's the question, which was. I forgot.

Now, on a tangent, we're zooming a year out from now. Where do you want to be to look back on this moment and be happy with your progress? And you want to cross the million in your supplement line and you want to launch a second brand for extreme sports supplements.

Yeah, yeah. So I'd say. So the first part is the revenue for the current business, and the second one would be having the range launched with the extreme supplements brand and be trying to do stuff more down your avenue of audience building and that kind of thing.

So. So in other words, what you would really like out of this time together and the progress that you experience over the next year is you'd like to be operating more in brand building, and you'd rather be in more of a creation mode than in an extraction mode. And you would like to be releasing products that really excite you versus ones that are going to make money in the short run, and you would like to be operating more in that place of serving a group of people rather than hawking products. Is that a fair summary?

Exactly. Yeah.

Okay, great. Great. I can definitely help you get there. And what do you think right now is standing in your way from you feeling more of that ease and excitement in what you're doing?

Okay. Simply being in a small office, you know, for a long period of time, sat behind a computer thinking about ranking is not that stimulating and engaging.

I know exactly what you mean.

Yeah. And cash flow as well is just stressful. So hand more of that stuff over, which I have done to some degree, but hand a bit more. Hand it fully over someone else and then be personally out there. I want to be at extreme sports events. I want to have the branding at the event, I want to have the athlete at the event. And I know that stuff is extremely expensive, but I want to be with people a bit more, you know? Yeah. And yes.

Tell me more about that. So there's. There's. It's really interesting. Your. The. The challenge you're facing is so clear and obvious, which is that most of your day is in that draining mode. It's in that mode of thinking about making more money.

It's thinking about getting somewhere. And where you really want to be is in the fun business that lights you up. But tell me, just tell me what we have to play with. Tell me what assets we've got right now, what the product line is like. If we have an email list, give me all the assets that I have to play with in my sandbox to see if there's any strings that I can pull.

Okay. So, like I say, free cash. We've got like 50k.

Email list, 2000.

We've got Facebook and Instagram audiences. But I'll be honest, when we first started out, we bought some followers to try and make it look more established.

Understood.

So I don't know how much of those followings are really sort of that useful and that genuine when you post.

How many likes and comments do you get.

On Facebook?

I sponsor everything I put out and I play a different budget. So organically, I wouldn't be able to tell You Instagram? Not many. Like 30. And I know a lot of them are friends and stuff is the most genuine, put it that way.

Email is the most genuine.

Yeah.

And when you do fit, when you do a Facebook post that you boost, what is the goal you're going for when you boost a post?

Just for now, just. It's been exposure.

I've not had any success. We've not had any success continuously with running ads that actually result in sales.

Okay, I understand. All right, so in the extreme sports brand, it's going to be called next level. Is next level a brand name or product name?

Brand name. No. So I was gonna say, I said to them, don't do us. Don't do a supplement brand that is operating in the, in the, in the extreme sports space. I want an extreme sports brand that by itself is a logo that people want on surfboards, snowboards, hoodies. That's just cool for no reason.

Well done. The extreme sports side of it is one of them. The other is just the like super high performer who, like. The thing about extreme sports is what people really love is that flow state, right? It's that flow state of ease. It's, it's so interesting to me. You fall into it when you talk about it. There's, there's like this, there's this different ash that comes out when you even talk about this other brand. Just so you know, I have goosebumps right now. That means we're on to something. So you, you have, you've got the ash that works on the neutral, on brain power. And then as soon as you flip into thinking about the flow state, it's like your brain goes.

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's amazing. So.

It is more than it is an extreme sports brand, but it also brings in everyone who is after that flow state. And so the nootropic angle for what you're doing is so perfect for that entire market because it is basically.

The joy of extreme sports in a pill.

It's, it's that, it's that flow state thing that just switches on because it.

Was used to be stimulants, you know, that was.

How can you get more energy and be more stimulated? Or as this is, that's not necessarily what you want. You want right focus, right?

In the next level customer, do they take rhodiola?

I'd say it seems like women, it's slightly more women focused for the herbals. But saying that, you know, there's a lot of lads who at the motocross track, for example. Who admit recently they actually they have anxiety and stress. And they told me they're taking ashwagandha. And I'm thinking, you know, these are big, solid, hard lads with bald heads and rough lads. You know, they go, oh, yeah, anxiety. I'm taking rhodiola. And I'm like, okay, cool. So, like, stereotypically I wouldn't have seen it, but actually it does seem to be a thing.

And does someone who is a customer of Next Level, do they take lion's mane?

I would say yes, because it's got the cognitive function element to it.

And someone who is a customer of Next Level, do they take magnesium, whatever bis is? Yeah, they do.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. I'd say a big one that I want to do for Next Level is joint health. Because think about all the impacts on joints is huge. Chondroitin, glucosamine, all that sort of stuff.

There's a direction I want to go with this, but I don't think you're gonna like it. Okay, but if you went this direction, your life would get a lot better real fast. Okay.

No one can say no to that.

I have this backroom member that I have a real affinity for. His name's Jonathan. And Jonathan.

Jonathan has a company that sells makeup bags.

And Jonathan is a lot like you in the sense that his revenue is right around the same as yours, maybe a little bit more. And an Amazon business and hates.

Hates the day to day. All his friends think he crushes it. And he's like, I hate it. I hate it so much.

But when he really lights up is when he's like, you know what I want to do is I want to.

Have a journal company.

It's like, oh, that's interesting. Why do you want to have a journal company? I just love the idea of organizing people's thoughts. Cool. And you know what else? You know what else I really want to do? I want to have a suitcase company. Oh, why do you want to have a suitcase? He's like, well, I have this idea for a suitcase where in the suitcase there's like a special compartment for your toiletries, and there's a special compartment for this, and there's a compartment for this. It would make packing so much easier and the whole thing would just be perfectly organized. That sounds like a really cool idea. Oh, and I have this other idea and this other idea for closet organization. Oh, okay. Why closet organization? He's like, well, I've come up with this design for closet organization that is just like, he's like, it would be perfect for the Marie Conde audience. It's like, there's a place for everything. And I would. I think I could get her as an influencer, and it'd be great.

As he is talking, he's talking about all these cool, random ideas that he has. And I said, all right, now let's come back to the makeup bags. The makeup bags you don't like doing. Why do other people like the makeup bags? He's like, well, they're just like, they're really well designed. Okay. What's different about them than all the others? And he's like, well, I mean, most makeup bags are just like makeup bags, but mine has, like, there's more thought put into it. It's like, it's a much more organized flow. I was like, okay, Jonathan, listen to me. You listed off four business ideas. Makeup bags, closet organizers, suitcases, and journals. All of them. All of them are the same end result of organizing the chaos in your brain, okay? And he was like, no, it's not. It's makeup bags, closet organize organizers. Well, the person who loves your makeup bag likes your bag because it's organized compared to the makeup bag. That is like. You ever seen a woman go through her purse where it's like. And she pulls out, like, weightlifting equipment and like, a person.

You have no idea what's in there. And the person who buys a suitcase that's well organized is after the same thing. It's like one less chaotic thing in your brain is now out and in the world. And when he saw that all of the crazy ideas were actually the same company, his life changed.

I think I know what you're saying now.

So you have two great brands that are really the same target market. And the thing that you're bumping up against is you think that in Brain Power, the market's mostly women and the market is.

Not an extreme sports person, but it's actually the same product and the same end effect that you want the person to have. The extreme sports is just. It's more you. It's more ash. It's more you have a reference point for why this transformation is so wonderful. Now, in Brainpower, there's women who are high performers in their world being an awesome mom, and they're dealing with anxiety all the time, and they found you on Amazon. And so you think that the market is mostly women, when in reality, you're solving a major pain point along a large group of people just expressed differently.

So if you wanted to, which I'm not sure you actually want to, but if you wanted to, you could very easily rebrand Brain Power as Next Level and be in business in a few months. Or you could start a new line within Brain Power that is the Next Level. And now you have the Extreme Sports line that is under Brain Power.

Or we can optimize Brain Power and put our focus into Next Level later.

But.

You will.

Sail through the million.

As soon as you allow yourself the permission to operate from that place of ease that you feel when you think about Next Level. You don't have to wait to to launch Next Level to slip into that mode. And my job for the next two hours, if we need that long, is to convince you that our entire plan just needs to put Ash in that mode. And we can do it by.

Having two brands. Having one brand, having one brand that has a different line in it called Next Level, we can do it. However, Ash gets into that mode. But as soon as you're in that mode, we hit all the goals that you want. Does that make sense how I'm saying this so far?

Yeah, absolutely. Because the original plan was that the reason when I started getting the branding done was a rebrand of Brain Power because there was no overarching cohesive feel and no customer taken into consideration. When I created it, I just found someone on 99designs. I like the work. I said, just work through the packaging, start with the product. Didn't do anything on the customer or the. Anything like that. So I thought, okay, I want to do this next. This time we're going to go to a proper agency rather than just freelancer, and we'll go through the whole process. We did a strategy, document, all this sort of stuff, naming again from scratch. So the only reason I decided to do it as a second brand was just simply because the money, the system's working with Brain Power, the money's coming in, it's still growing, it's working. I fear that if I were to replace it and rebrand it, there's a possibility that money might go away, that revenue might go away. And I know you shouldn't be fearful and all that sort of stuff, but it is a potential.

Yeah, I totally understand.

I totally understand.

All of the routes we could go are going to have positives and challenges. They're going to have both. I mean, if we completely rebranded, it gives you permission to go all in, but we sacrifice a few customers.

If we launch internally, meaning we just have a sub line. It allows you to move faster. But now you've got two brands. To manage. So they're gonna have positives and challenges. The way we'll make this decision is when whichever one we choose is done. What mode is ash in? Because the whole goal is for you to have a multimillion dollar business that you enjoy, not for you to have a multimillion dollar business so that then you can focus on what you enjoy and not a business that you enjoy that makes you go broke. We want both. And the way we'll get both is by getting you to focus on the one you enjoy that we then add firepower to your life. Just gets better and better and better. Most people who are in your spot scale unhappiness. They say, I've got this business doing half a million dollars a year and I want this to go to $5 million a year so that I could be 10 times as unhappy. But once I'm there, then I'll sell it and then I'll get to be happy. The problem with that is their happiness muscle is not well flexed at that point. Now they have to go through three years of therapy and three years. And this is why entrepreneurs do psychedelics. They get to a certain level and then it's like, well, that didn't make me happy. So, like, now I gotta figure out what I want now.

So my goal for you is to bring in the stuff that you really enjoy now because it will help you get to the revenue goal faster and then you'll be scaling happiness versus scaling unhappiness.

One thing I put in place recently that has allowed me to actually be a bit freer and think of things like next level is I got a full time nutritionist who's worked at a much bigger supplement company.

I have a lot to say about this that you're really going to like. First of all, what is this nutritionist's name?

His name is Matt.

One of the things that you said you're really excited about in next level is that you want to do audience building, but that you're not a writer and you're not really a content creator per se, but you're excited about the audience building an audience connection and building the relationships and going out to influencers and doing events. And someone who is a nutritionist that knows the audience could be a really solid podcast host, video host, face of a company. Potentially you're at half a million, you want to be at a million. And what you want to do is launch a product a month in the business that you don't like in order to get there.

I just think that's really interesting because that same focus of Matt's could be in the business that you do like and be at the million really just as fast, if not faster. And so what I'm hearing you say is you've got all this, like, you're not having a bad time because there's growth. Your biggest challenge is that the work you're doing is draining.

And so what you're trying to do is optimize the draining stuff.

Are you old enough to remember at FM radio?

Yeah.

All right. So there's. Do you remember the radios that had a dialogue that you would spin.

Whatever would like and you had to like, kind of find the station? No. 1. When you get to the radio station that you want, people don't say, like, I cleared out all the other stations. They just tune to what the one they want. And in your case, all we have to do is turn the dial to like tune into what we want and then Ash switches on. It's immediate, it's instant. You, more than most people know what you want, but you've been focusing on all the other stations.

Trying to clear them out or optimize them so that then you can turn the dial. But you're actually way ahead of what I would consider the hard part, which is knowing what you want. But as soon as we turn the dial into that, all the other stuff just gets cleared. You're like, you are on. I can see why you like extreme sports. You go right into that mode.

So do you think that it's. What I'm hearing you say is I should start launching products for next level and stop launching products for brainpower?

Essentially, yes. The challenge you'll run into in this stage of your business is now you have. You've doubled the cash flow problem rather than freed up the cash flow problem when, I mean, it's a physical products brand. When you've got to reorder that inventory, you know what that cash flow management feels like. And it would be better for you to have just the 2,000 units in one brand that was profitable than having to order up on two products that diverted your focus. So I would rather see you put that. Put the product in just one brand. From a cash flow perspective, I much more enjoy going really deep into product than going wide because it's hard to be unique and branded when you're going really wide. Like your Rhodiola is one of your best sellers. Now your Anti X, what a great name.

And I can copy the formula. I can't copy the name or the Target market. So it's much harder for me to knock off Anti X, especially if it's marketed to extreme sports people. You've got that market cornered at that point. And so that allows you to go really deep into that. You're so close. I mean, you're so. And it is, I can't tell you how common it is, even with me to have some success and then go into protection mode. But as soon as you go into protection mode, you shut off growth because you start maintaining. And maintaining is draining and draining doesn't grow. Yeah, I can't tell you how common it is, man. So, like, you're in great company with lots of entrepreneurs.

But I know, and this is the unlock. I know as soon as we get you back into the mode that is growth mode, all of your goals are very modest. You'll blast through them. You'll blast through a million, you'll go to 2 million and you'll be back in that, like, dopamine overload that is like, this is amazing, right? For about three years. And then you'll plateau again and you'll go into defense mode and you'll have draining work. And so the work that we have to focus on is how do we optimize for that flow state to be there as much as possible. Let me tell you what will not get you there. Launching more commodities, Playing the price game, playing the Amazon game.

Launching more rather than going deeper. All the things that you consider draining. The good news there is, once you eliminate them, your life gets better and you get to do the things that you want. In other words, the things that you don't like don't work. I'm just. I'm gonna stop beating around the bush and give you what I think from an outside perspective your plan looks like. Okay, I think your first step is your 39. $99 products or 39.99 pound products. Those blends the Anti X and the Power focus. Was that it?

Those two products just scream next level for me.

Yeah.

And I would launch them as next level.

Okay.

Now the reason, the thing that you would have to decide is, is next level a sub line of brain power.

Or is it completely rebranded? Either way, it's the same company. Don't start a second set of books, a second set of cash flows. Keep it under the same company. It'll make your life a lot easier. And this is your marketing, not your branding, but your marketing. Your marketing is that you're the anti Red Bull. We've all experienced that state of flow when you're on when you're carving on the mountain or you are on the bike or you're even coding in front of your computer. That flow is the happiest time of our lives. And until recently, most of us thought we had to get there by overstimulating, draining our adrenals, and loading up on coffee, caffeine, and energy drinks. But the truth is, the faster we can unlock that flow state.

I need you to do the voiceover.

Well, another thing for you to consider is to make Next Level just the audience. Next Level could almost be the name of the movement. And you have a website that shows all the cool community stuff that you do. It's pictures of the events, it's links to the podcast. It's just the audience and the movement. But the products themselves are Brain Power. So you never mix them in the sense of you're not trying to monetize your audience. Next Level is just like it's. The audience is the name of the audience. It's. The point here is to get to the Next level. We're sponsored by Brain Power Supplements. They're the same company, but Next Level is just all about pushing yourself and knowing no bounds.

So it's like a community. And then I suppose any product could be marketed to that community.

Absolutely. And you'd be really upfront about it the whole time. This is all brought to you by Brainpower Supplements. Just so you guys know, we're the same company.

Brain Power is the same people as Next Level. Next Level is our community, but we're powered by Brainpower.

That was the one thing I was a little funny about, because I was thinking if people did see that, you know that both products are by people who own the same company. Yeah, I like that. Being really honest about it.

Just be totally upfront the whole time.

Okay, I'll move that around.

What we want to do is launch a drink that is natural and puts you into Flow state. Why? Because the only group that serves our community is Red Bull, and Red Bull is the old way of doing it. New science suggests we can do it naturally and we can do it easily, and we can do it, do it with more focus in a way that is healthy. We're just three dudes who love extreme sports. We're one of you. So the first thing we're doing is we've been able to take all the benefits that you would get from that drink and put it into a capsule. That's called Power Focus. You're now anti Red Bull.

Okay, so now we've got the messaging and the tone and the narrative. How do I then take that, then accelerate it from sales? Is it using ads?

So the first thing I would do is to have one video done, one video with a voiceover and an editor from upwork with a bunch of extreme Sports B roll. The easiest thing for you to do is to script it out, voice record it, and then hand the voice recording to a video editor who just puts it to B roll. All right, so here's. Here's where what we've got, what we've talked about, is in that for you to hit your goals of crossing the million and having a real brand, we need to work in the things that you want to do into what you are currently doing. And some of those things are targeting extreme sports. They're being at events. It's working with influencers, it's creating content. It's really just working with the people that you want to work with. We know that the brand that is currently under Brain Power isn't necessarily what you want, but the products are. And that if we focus in more on the products that you want and in the people that you want, Brain Power or Next level, however we brand it will very quickly and easily cross to the million and beyond and have an audience that supports it. The question that we're having right now is how do we do this in a way that is somewhat predictable so that we have a clear action plan of how to execute that now, before we go into. That was everything that I said up until that point. Do you agree with it? Do you agree that if we focus more on the things that you want to do within Next Level, that it will take you to where you're your goal is? Do you feel that that's true?

Yes, as long as there's some sort of.

Strategic route that I can tick off and implement.

Yeah.

Because that's the way I think that's how it would have to work for me to be effective.

Absolutely. So you believe. You believe me that it is the right philosophy. You want to see what the execution plan is to test the philosophy.

I'm already a member of the church of rdm.

Okay, Great. Good, good. All right. So your first step is to brand yourself with video or brand yourself with a way of saying, of really casting the vision for what brainpower Next Level looks like, both for you, your team, and most importantly, the people who follow you. So what is really important is that you start practicing and speaking about the vision. The first step is really you being clear in your own vision and being Willing to communicate what that vision is to the rest of the world.

That's really the first step, is you being really clear on who you serve, how you serve them, what the vision of where we're all going is. And whether it's this video or a video that comes three months from now, once that audience starts to pop a little bit, one of them is going to end up being an ad. I don't know if it's this one, but it's very important that you feel comfortable speaking to that person into that vision. I think about this video as like.

The landing page video. And also the first thing people see on YouTube when they come to your channel. It's like the channel branding piece. And so we might run it as an ad, but that's not really the purpose of this video immediately. But what I would like to see you do as kind of the next step is for you to make a hit list of the influencers that are in the extreme sports space that make a lot of content but have.

10 to 90,000 followers.

Okay. And what feels right to me is people on YouTube, not Instagram.

Great, great. Instagram is the least effective from a sales point of view.

Okay.

The most the highest converting is blog and email.

The next highest is podcast and video. And the least effective is social media.

Did you come? Where did ads come? Ads come in there?

Yeah, well, ads are their own animal because ads are traffic. You need to still pull them into something and it's the where you pull them into that determines whether the ad is successful.

Okay, okay.

Yeah, but from an influencer perspective, it's email.

YouTube and podcast, then social media.

Okay.

I think for you the lowest hanging fruit is get in line for when it's ready. It's basically a pre launch campaign. Okay, that's my suggestion for you. Tell me what happens when you email the list. What types of responses do you get? Who are the people who respond? Tell me a little bit about that.

Okay. Yeah, so I use Klaviyo, which is quite good. Quite like it. I'll tell you some stats right now. So what we do is we do an email to launch a new product and we'll do an offer. You can have any other product from the range for free if you buy our latest product. And we usually get from our list of 2000, we usually get about 30 people take the offer every launch.

And.

Then we do a reminder on that and then we might get another 10 or 15 on that reminder. So we're emailing twice a month in that regard. And then We've been running out of stock quite a bit because we still haven't got quite dialed in yet. So we'll do a back in stock email and they usually do reasonably well. So they're definitely not huge amounts of money. But like, for example, we'll get maybe a 20 to 25% open rate and in between like a 2 and 5% click rate.

Good. So this is. This is what I would recommend you do. Ash.

Your email subject line is where we're going next. And in the email you can describe the vision and link them to the same landing page that is the video and opt in for when it's ready.

Okay.

So I would not try to say we're now next level or.

It'S just casting the vision for where you're going next. I think it's really important for you to understand that.

You have this vision out here and you want to communicate this vision, but also that you're right here in the vision. And so it's important for you to not say, we're not this anymore. No need. You just want to say, we're going here and here's where we are. We're going here and here's where we are. And then when you're here, it's we're going here and here's where we are. We're going here and here's where we are. You never have to turn around and say where you've been. You don't have to, like, try to speak to the people who have been following you other than saying, here's where we are and here's where we're going. Here's where we are. Here's where we're going. Okay, so the truth for you is where you are is we're a small team that is obsessed with that awesome state that we all love that some of us call flow. Some of us get it through extreme sports, some of us get it through coding or writing. But all of us want to feel more of that and less tension, anxiety, and lack of focus. Where we want to go is being the number one source for athletes, high performers, moms, and everyone else who cares about.

That high experience of life. And we're going to do that by putting the big energy drinks out of business right now. Where we are is that we have some of the best unlocks in the world that you can take in the morning and last all day.

I mean, that's where you are and where you're going.

So we're still using the best quality herbal, vitamin, mineral extracts, we're still doing filler free. We're still doing organic. We're just gonna also speak to people who like to do extreme sports as well. Yeah.

What I would recommend from a resource perspective is there's a Facebook group called the Cult of Copy, and it is just a big Facebook group with a ton of copywriters in there. And they have a jobs board where you can say what you're looking for.

Okay. Yeah. Because I think it doesn't come out quite as nice when I come up with them.

Well, the reason why it's easier for me to do it for you is because I don't have the baggage of past history of how you've been doing things. And what that does is it just gives me a hack to speak about where you are and where you're going. Like, in my description, I never brought up extreme sports, except for the fact that extreme sports was a route to feel that flow and ease that we all consider our highest, like our highest self. Where the extreme sports comes in is when you start going out and getting more people. The extreme sports is really your ideal customer.

But when you're speaking to your existing customers, I just want to paint the best vision of their lives.

Which is that feeling of flow that we're all after. Some people get it from extreme sports. Some people feel it when they're playing an instrument. Some people feel it when they're coding. But we all have had that experience of that flow state. And our job is to make it as easy as possible, as normal as possible, to unlock that part of you that is tucked away by the stresses of life. That's how you speak to your existing customers, to new customers. Go get the extreme sports people. And the way we'll do that, step one is by making that list of influencers of 10 to 90,000. This is after you have that video done. So people know who you are and where you're going. And you are in Give City. I mean, you are in. You go to those people and you're like, look, I love. I love that video and that video. I'd love to send you a care package. Would you be open to that?

Do you spend any other kind of money on them? Because, like, let's say once you've. Once you've introduced yourself and you've given some product.

How do you keep the conversation and the relationship going? Because they're probably going to be busy doing their own content. How do you keep that connection and.

Custom snowboard made with the next level.

Logo on it and what send it to them. Yep.

Offer to sponsor their shitty podcast.

It. The best position is when one of these influencers is like, what the fuck does this guy want? Like, I can never give him. I can never repay him for all this stuff.

Okay?

And he's got a great product.

That's when you have leverage. Right. But the thing is.

You don't want to position it of making these relationships so that you can have the ask. That's not what you want. These people bought into Next level so much that they will talk about you whether your buddies or not.

Okay.

Whether you're paying them or not. And then you can formalize the relationship later with like, do you want to be one of our sponsored athletes? But. But in the short run, like, you want. You want them raving. You want them to be a raving fan. That's the best advertising in the whole damn world.

One of the reasons why I have the influence I have is because I maintain relationships with Gary Vee, with Daymond John, with John Mackey from Whole Foods, with Susie Batiz, with JP Sears. Like, some of those people are my homies.

I don't have an. Like, I did ask JP Sears to put me on his podcast, like, to promote the book, but we have so much relationship capital.

That it didn't feel icky. It was like, jp, put me on your show. He was like, awesome. That's what you want.

You want to have achievement 8 to 12 extreme sports influencers that you've built up a lot of relationship capital with, and they're bringing you other people.

How do you find people who aren't already.

Sponsored or already in some kind of relationship, exclusive relationship like that. Is it quite easy or is it. Is a. Do you try and find, I guess, the smaller ones to start and then work with them as they grow?

But you asking that question assumes that there's a conflict of interest in them talking about you. Your job right now is just to open the relationship.

Okay?

Just open the relationship. Because if you go after somebody who has an exclusive relationship, but they have affinity for what you're doing.

They know everybody else. They still privately know all the other influencers. They're still talking about you.

They're still influencing.

And then the contract runs out and they're like, yo, I broke up with so and so. I don't care if you can pay me the same, but I don't want to work with them anymore. I want to work with you. Is there something we could do?

So you've got to punt the transactional analysis at this point. And just think about, how do I open up relationships with these micro influencers? So make the list of people that you genuinely like and respect who are doing really good work.

Who are targeting your ideal person.

I've got one really cool guy called Bruno who I met in Portugal who does BASE jumping, and he was pretty small when I first started talking to him. He did a video where he threw Power Focus off of a cliff, and then he dived out with his dog attached to him and caught the Power focus in midair. And then he did a little sketch afterwards where he threw the Power focus and then the dog went and fetched it and brought it back.

Are you. Are you in a good relationship? Do you have a good relationship with Bruno?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, enough where you could schedule a call with him.

Yeah, yeah.

So I would highly recommend.

That you schedule a call with him. And the call goes something like this.

Bruno, what's up, man? Hey. I've been thinking about you a lot, and I just had a conversation with one of my mentors, and, man, he gave me an idea that I have just been thinking about ever since, and I just wanted to get your opinion on it. You know, I've been doing Brain Power for the last year and a half, and it's going really well. I'm really proud of what we've done. But to be honest with you, like, I really want to work with more people like us, people like us who are into the extreme sports. The people who are into, like, these crazy things that we do. And I'll tell you what, one of the most fun things that I ever saw was when you threw Power Focus out the window and you and your dog jumped out and grabbed it. That was just the coolest thing. And I want to do more stuff like that. And so I'm thinking about either rebranding or launching more products under a more extreme sports type of focus. I'm thinking about calling it Next Level. And I want to just send you the branding and get your thoughts on the branding, and I just really want your feedback on this because I would really love to work with more people like us moving forward. And if you like it, I would even be open to some sort of an arrangement where we work together on that. But right now, I just genuinely want your feedback on the direction that I'm going. And if you think that more people like us would resonate with something like this, would it be okay if I sent you this and got your feedback? Great. Let me share that with you right now. Just talk me through your response to this. So I'm thinking about taking this product and putting it in there and this product and putting it in there. What do you think about this? What else would you do? Do you know anybody who would resonate with this? When you hang out with other influencers in this space, like, who else do you talk to.

Now? It's a consulting call.

And your job is to get him to talk about what he's excited about. Because psychologically, if he connects excitement with your brand, he's in.

And no money has been exchanged.

And then he's like, yeah, I know this guy and this guy and this guy.

They would love this stuff. Sweet.

Yeah, definitely.

And then, and then it's what do you guys need?

What do you, I mean, are you full time in this? Do you want to be?

And you just go into give mode on all those, all those guys.

If we weren't in it, if we weren't in a, in a COVID 19 world would say that you, your first event.

Is you put together a 10 person extreme sports retreat.

For your 10 influencers.

Just to meet each other, hang out, do crazy things.

I once told, I had these clients, Gemma and Georgie, and Gemma and Georgie have a yoga company. And I told them the biggest thing that they could do is throw a 8 to 12 person yoga retreat just for influencers where you spoil the crap out of them and then you give them a care package of your products at the end.

They were like, that's the coolest thing ever.

I think I spend too much time.

Because of the way that I think.

On everything that I do, especially because the company's small and spare funds are limited. I spend too much time thinking of everything has to have a return. Do you know what I mean? What can I invest into to get this back? And.

Yeah, I think.

Maybe putting a bit of money into putting on something like that with not expecting anything necessarily.

Well, it's total. First of all, you and everybody else.

It'S like this is how most people think, especially men. We are very logically, step by step. That's our job. So you're just doing your job, Ash. But let's play this out after a couple of steps. The purpose of an ro of a return on investment.

And to have the big pile of money played out to his extreme is for us to be able to do the things that we want to do and naturally enjoy. So it makes sense that one way that we could calculate ROI is how do we operate in our business that gives us the highest return on investment. From the things that we enjoy.

Knowing that some of those things are going to lead to profit. Because the purpose of profit is to continue the good work that we enjoy.

Most people say, I'm going to get the profit so I can do the things that I enjoy. But the purpose of profit is to continue what's working and doing what we enjoy. So if you say, I'm going to work with the people that I want to work with and I'm going to do the retreats I want to do do, and I'm going to target the people I want to target, then the money shows up in order to sustain those things that are working. And that's when we start scaling happiness.

It's funny because when you say all this stuff.

Everyone, everyone relates to it, you know, everyone's like, yeah, that makes complete sense. Yeah, I'm gonna go for that then. I think it really, really takes a long. I mean, I've been listening to you for how long? It really takes a long time for it to turn into implementation and click and turn into implementation.

But yeah, it's slowly I'm getting there.

Well, here. So here's the unlock for that. That is simply a difference between paying attention to your thoughts and paying attention to your emotions. So our emotions are very smart and our emotions have a lot of thoughts attached to them. Our emotions and our thoughts are very well connected. But most of us are trained to listen to our thoughts versus our emotions.

And thoughts are logical, reasonable, intelligent emotions are fun, exciting, adventure. The. There's a. I like how Mark Manson puts it. He talks about the thinking brain and the feeling brain. The feeling brain is the one driving the car and the thinking brain is the one with the map telling the emotional brain where to go. But the emotional brain at any point could go, no, we're going this way. Like, the emotional brain is erratic and the logical brain has to know how to work with the emotional brain in order to get it to go to follow the map. So our emotions, the more we like, allow them to flow. The brain can be more logical and more intentional about what it is that we're doing. But when the two are opposed, like you're focused on the things that are draining you, it makes it really hard to motivate yourself to do the things that you have to do in order to get the result. But when you're naturally enjoying it, the thinking brain is like, great, let's go this way and then let's go this way and then let's go this way and then. And there's an ease that comes between those. So the reason why it takes so long for us to get it is because we don't really want to do the thing. So the work becomes allowing us to ourselves to be excited.

Without having to justify why. And then the logical brain can kick in to say, okay, now we're going to do this and this and this.

And this, this and this and this and this.

What are some of the things that you've. Because you've talked about this, like, you know, being able to have more fun and do more things that you really want to do. And I think one of those things is Wine with Wyan.

Fun story about Wine with Wyan.

The first Wine with Wyan was one of the most fun things I have ever done in my business. I kid you not. I did it with my buddy Clement. Clement got into the elevator in his apartment the next day and somebody said, I watched you online last night in his elevator in his apartment. He was like, this is creepy.

We had a fucking blast. I had personal friends texting me, being like, I watched you for three hours last night and all I did was have a fucking blast.

So then I was like, let's do it every week. And then I made it a job and I hated it. And so I haven't done Wine with Wyan in like two months.

So the real unlock is, all right, let's find that place that feels. That feels just fun. And for you, thinking about working with an influencer who is a base jumper sounds awesome.

We don't know how that's going to turn into money yet. And that's okay. So here's a logical flow that I think will help you. That video that we do that casts the vision, if you run that process of.

Using it to generate likes on your page internationally and locally, and you build a giant following that's somewhat engaged.

Even if it's not the most engaged or, you know, you've got the numbers, you can start going to these influencers and saying like, hey, I really liked this video. Could we put an edited version on our page?

And you pay a video editor to like make a 12 minute video, a three minute video.

And you reshare it on your page. And now you're just giving those people exposure. But you've also got content that opens up a relationship with that other person and you continue the conversation. Send them a care package. That's a way that you can start getting in front of these audiences on a regular basis.

What can I do for you?

Thanks for asking. You've Already bought some books, so I appreciate that. I mean, actually, here's where you could help me. I have a blind spot in who. My who is for capitalism.

So I'm really good at identifying the who for a physical products brand.

I have a little bit of a blind spot when it comes to capitalism. So where I could use some help is knowing when you really bought into the Church of Ryan Daniel Moran. When did. When what shift or what moment was when you were like, oh, yeah.

That'S my guy, I'm gonna buy some books.

Well, I'd already bought in four years.

Ago, so tell me about that. Tell me about why.

So the first. So this was right at the beginning of my Amazon physical products business journey.

So were you already going the route of Amazon when you found me?

Yes. Yeah. Because a friend of mine did a private label under eye product. He was doing well on Amazon.

And did he tell you about me or did you find me?

No, I found you. So I found you through what was back then, what was the other famous Amazon podcast guy.

Kevin Reiser. Scott Voltman.

Kevin Reiser. So I found his and it was okay, but he was. He was talking about what software to use to get reviews.

Super tactical.

Yeah. Which was helpful for five minutes. Yes.

That'S right.

And then it wasn't once I'd done that. Whereas you talked about branding and brand building and that always has been and still is very, very useful.

And you're very clear.

And you talk from a point of having done. Been there and done it. So whereas some people, you don't know whether they're really at. Whether they're really like making the money, they're saying and blah, blah, blah. So there's that clear. You're very good at pulling information out of people.

So you're a good interviewer. So when you have guests on, you ask the questions that I would want to know.

Like, I could feel the frustration with Grant Cardone.

Hey, it's coming out now that he's an asshole. Like, yeah, everybody's doing reveal videos on that. But anyway.

Yeah, mainly those. Those things like I haven't. And it's not really been any different since. That's hence why I still listen.

The people. Are you talking specifically about the demographic? Because that's people who attended Capcom. Yeah, you've seen those people. They're probably like 22.

Well up into their 50s, male and female. There's a lot of couples, actually a lot of people.

So I just want to point out, highlight something that you're saying.

People told me that what they wanted was more of the tactics, like what software to use.

And when I would do that, I would get a spike in downloads.

But I hated it.

So the more that I focused on the things I wanted to talk about, the more people like you showed up.

Kevin Reiser gave up his podcast. He doesn't do it anymore.

Because no one likes talking about that stuff. And you attract more people who want to know what software to use. And that's helpful for five minutes.

So I'm telling you that because.

When I focus on what I want to do.

I get people like you who fly across the world to come to Capcom and want to work with me. Kevin Reiser shuts down his podcast, so the same is true for you. The data will tell you to launch another Rhodiola, but what you really want is the stuff that we've talked about. And if you allow yourself to do it, you'll get more Brunos.

That's fun.

Yeah. And I think we've all progressed together, which has helped with the community feeling so. I can't remember. Well, yeah, you sold your business. Because I remember you doing revenue reports.

Yeah.

Yeah, that was fun. I think that was cool. I'd be interested if you did that again. Maybe you do. Maybe you don't want, I don't know.

Icky when I was doing it, but I'm actually considering it again.

I think maybe that's just to you probably. I don't know if anyone else.

Because the other good thing is, I suppose if you're doing a revenue report as a supplement company and people know exactly what supplements you do, there is the risk that. Especially with a lot of people following you.

Well, you know, that's a great point, Ash, because with what we're launching Inside of Capitalism brands, I'm so excited about it. I don't care if people.

Copy me. I would be totally down to do revenue reports on those businesses.

So I'm gonna think about that.

Okay, we'll think about that.

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