Growing From $5m On Amazon to A $50m Empire - Update With Nested Naturals

You're listening to Freedom fastlane presented by capitalism.com. this is the show about building businesses and investing the profits so that you can live life on your terms. And now, your host, the future owner of the Cleveland Indians, Ryan Daniel Moran.

Hey, fastlaners, Ryan Daniel Moran here. Welcome to Freedom Fast Lane. Today I'm excited to welcome back to the show Jeremy Shirk and Kevin Pascoe. They're some of our tribe members and backroom members and they've been on the show before talking about their infancy story. It was about a year ago that we had them on the show and they talked about how they made the pivot from trying to sell odds and ends on the Internet to building a real business that had surpassed seven figures, that had surpassed that million dollar point. Well, today they're back because they've had a, an expansion in their vision and now they're growing from about the $5 million point and putting in the infrastructure to go to $50 million. I invited them back because not just because they've surpassed that $5 million run rate in their business, which is impressive all on its own, to have a company in a competitive space be on Amazon and doing $5 million a year, yeah, that's impressive. And we have lots of stories like that from our trainings and inside. But these guys have made that pivot to becoming a real company of having talent and culture that they really believe in and that has the ability to grow way bigger than they are right now. They've made that pivot almost seamlessly. It looks from the outside to be almost effortless that they've made this transition. I've never seen an entrepreneur make that type of a seamless transition. They talk in this interview about why that's been the case and it's been behind a unifying vision. It's been because they've had good mentorship, because from the very beginning they had their sight set on what is it gonna take for us to grow a $50 million company and let's start acting like this. So they talk about finding and bringing on employees that are culture fits and that represent who they want to be. They talk about why they decided to get an office rather than just running things virtually like they had been doing. And they talk about the best investments that they made and in their business, which came down to the products that they launched and the people that they brought on. If you're running a seven figure company or you already have products launched and growing, this is going to be very, very valuable for you. If you are just Starting out or you're thinking about the business that you are going to run, go back and listen to their first interview first. So just search for Jeremy and Kevin Freedom Fastlane and listen to their origin story about about how they built this business and then listen to this one as an add on because you're gonna see the entire story of going from zero to $5 million and up and their trajectory towards $50 million. I'm really proud of these guys and I am excited to watch them grow. If you are like Jeremy and Kevin and you've got a business that is doing well, but you need a kick in the pants or you need to be around people who have that type of vision, and then I want to encourage you to join one of our communities. The tribe is where we help people who already have products up and selling consistently and we help them grow into seven figures and then into the multimillion dollar range. If you're beyond that point, you already know how to run a successful company, then we run a mastermind just for people who have businesses doing at least a million dollars, preferably $2 million and up, or they have high net worths. And we a room called the back room. And we do deals together, we do investments together, we share strategies. And you can find info about both of those over@freedomfastlane.com it's freedomfastlane.com tribe or backroom, depending on what level you're at. Jeremy and Kevin are in our backroom mastermind. And if you have the type of vision that they have after hearing this interview, I'd encourage you to apply to one of those communities. All right, we're gonna go find out how you set the infrastructure for a $50 million company, how you grow from 1 to 5 as quickly as Jeremy and Kevin have, and how you develop a company with purpose and culture, even in a crazy competitive world like supplements, which is what these guys at Nested Naturals do. So enjoy this chat with the founders of Nested Naturals, Kevin and J.

Kevin and Jeremy. Welcome back to Freedom Fast Lane. It's good to have you guys on again.

Thanks for having us, dude.

Great being here.

Yeah. I had to have you on for part two because you guys have grown so much and you made so many cool changes. I know you had a record December 2016, a record January 2017, and you guys just continue to grow, not just in terms of revenue, but in direction and momentum. And not a lot of people make that big pivot. So I'm super proud of you guys. I can't Wait to get into it, but why don't you take the first 60 seconds or so and talk about, you know, when you were on last time, you had built a million a multimillion dollar supplement company. You were very public about that and you had kind of flatlined a bit or were making some changes. You've made some changes and now you guys are skyrocketing again. So give us a company update and what the heck have you guys done differently to momentum again?

Well, going back to when we were last on Ryan, we were under a completely different brand name, completely different company name. And that has all changed since we spoke last. So that was definitely a huge step for us in solidifying our brand, solidifying our identity. And just all the nuts and bolts of having to go through that name change was at first a bit unfortunate, but looking back, it was the best thing that happened to us. That's been a big change. We've also further solidified our why. I know that was a topic brought up on the last call, but we further refined that down to that. It's more crystal clear. And really what represents us and what has represented us from the beginning. We got a brand new office, which we're in now. Maybe we're echoing a little because it's a big empty space currently, but that was a huge step. And there's also been a lot of amazing growth with sales and just dialing in, you know, the revenue and the product launches too. We've had probably five or six new products as well, so lots happening.

You've got a new brand name, a new office, you know, new clarified direction. What has been, first of all, why did you change the name and why did you get an official office? Why did you decide to make that pivot?

To be totally transparent, the name change was actually sparked by a legal complication, to be completely honest. So it was something that was unexpected. Like I said, it triggered this process of having to think up a new name and re identify ourselves. And like I said, no regrets. It was actually a blessing in disguise. I believe it's been an amazing step and transition for us as far as the new office. We were set to have this office on the last call, we were just waiting for the renovation. So we were cramped in a really tight space. Some of us were taking calls and doing meetings on boxes. Classic startup story where we're just growing really fast. And now it's a brand new renovated space that we designed. You know, it feels like home. It's just something we were waiting for at that time. But now we're here and it's a reality and it feels good.

A lot of entrepreneurs hit the point where you were, you know, selling a few million dollars a year, kind of enjoying things and they start to coast. And the two of you decided to double down. You got the office, you started building a team, you started attracting talent. I know you're now going after kind of some world class talent. And I'm curious what has to be different now that you're really scaling a business versus when you're just kind of in the weeds of it starting a business. What's different about how you operate the company now?

Yeah, so I mean when we made the decision, it was honestly, it wasn't something that we had made in the beginning. We had started a company because we really wanted to make a difference. And we both had these two problems of, okay, we don't know what's in these supplements that we're taking. I took this weight gainer that ended up being cornstarch. And so we kind of had our own personal stories. But it's not like we came into this saying we came in with the mindset saying this could be a multi million dollar business, but we didn't know yet. I mean, we'd never grown multimillion dollar businesses before. I was in my super young twenties, like I have no clue what the hell I'm doing. And then we really started to realize that we could make it really big. And when the customers started giving us feedback, we had a product take off and then we had another product do well. And then we added in all these elements to really focus on sustainability in the long run. So when we really made the conscious switch to really go big, and the scale is a little bit weird, but big for us is going to be $50 million plus. So a lot of people would consider us big. And I still think that we are. It's just, you know, we want to 10x where we're at now and that's going to be around $50 million to get there. So the decisions we make at this point versus just coasting on a 5 million dollar a year company will be much different. And one of them was getting a board of advisors, which we can talk about later on the call. We made a big investment in people. That's why we have this office space in downtown Vancouver which is quite expensive. But it's, you know, it's a long term play in order to get us to the point where we need to be acting like we're a $50 million company and you make different decisions if you're going down that route versus if you're just going to be a one or two or five million dollar company and pull cash out and invest, nothing wrong with that. It's just, which one do you want to do? So we kind of had to really think ahead into the future and say, okay, what do we want to do? Or a, do we have the capacity? The answer was yes. B, do we want to do it? The answer was yes. And then C was, okay, then how do we get there? So part of that was just really opening up. And this last year has been insane. I mean, it's only been, you know, 11 and a half months since we didn't even live in Vancouver. A year ago. We were living out of an Airbnb when we first got here because we didn't even have apartments. So it's been a crazy year. But now that we're seeing the long term strategy really pick up and like, give us, you know, the fruits of our labor, like, I really think that it was the right move. You know, making that long term play was something that was really important to us.

Here is what I don't understand. Jeremy, when I met you, you were selling ping pong balls in Thailand. Kevin, when I met you, you were like 14 years old and you're, you're still only like 15 years old. So here's, here's what I don't get. No one, no one makes a shift from I'm gonna sell a few ping pong balls to I'm gonna run a 50 million dollar, your company. Like, I've never seen an easy transition there. Usually it is. I'm gonna build a little cash flow business. I'm gonna be set with my little cash flow business. Then I'm gonna take my risks and I'm gonna build my big company. You guys just said you want to build a big company and you took your incremental steps get there. It was 1 million, then 3 million, then more million. And now you're bringing on some really big talent. But it's really rare that somebody just goes for it on their first go and says, hey, let's scale this thing. Especially in something like supplements, which is, quote, competitive. But your new name is way better, your new branding is way better. Your team just continues to get better, your presence continues to get better. I guess what I'm asking is what the heck do you guys do differently or what do you have figured out that most people who are at your level fail to do or fail to.

See, first I want to clarify, Ryan, that there was the ping pong ball thing and there was many other little things. Those were cash flow businesses. They enabled me to live in Thailand, live the four hour work week, have a huge sense of freedom, what my day to day was and how I live my life. But that kind of got old, you know, that high wore off and I wanted something more. And I built up a lot of skills in the trenches as did Kevin, working on cash flow businesses. And I really wanted to marry the skills and experience I had built with something I was deeply passionate about, which is health and wellness. That has always been a deep passion of mine. And when this all came together, it's really just that entrepreneurial drive and hunger for us wanting to do something great and make a huge impact in the world. It's as simple as that. I mean, that's what drives me. I can travel if I still want to. I'm a little bit more restricted. I can't go live in Thailand for a few years, but I've done that and I'm more focused on building something great and the challenge and the growth and all the things that that brings and the satisfaction and fulfillment at the end of the day and how we do things differently. It's, you know, it's focusing on the long term. It's not pulling out the money and, and buying a nice car. It's living within our means and taking modest salaries and reinvesting everything back into the growth. Decisions like that are really what in my mind the difference between a short term view, which is just cash flow, live a good life between long term view, invest yourself, invest back in the company and I'll let Kevin add anything if he has something to say.

Yeah, I would agree with all that completely. We both got super lucky when we partner. First of all, I think a partnership is key because there's just too much going on. You can't do it all yourself. I've been a solopreneur before, it kind of sucks. So, you know, if you do a cash flow business, that's cool. But if you want to get to scale, I would recommend getting a partner. And not only just a partner, but also one who complements the opposite of you. So Jeremy's super detailed. He can be very big picture but he's great with details. I'm pretty okay with them. He's better than me and I've got some great big picture creative stuff going on. So we really balance each other out and we bring different skills to the table. You know, I Trust him with his stuff, he trusts me with mine. And we can kind of, you know, one plus one equals ten. So, you know, we're really feeling, feeling the synergy there.

What would you guys say has been the best investment that you have made in the last year? You've been, you know, rolling things back into the business. You've hired people, you have invested in training, you've launched new products. Out of all of those things, what do you think has been the best investment of your time, energy and resources?

That's a really tough one. I mean, I think there's actually two and one is a little bit more impactful, but it's long term. And the other we're seeing the impacts right now and it's a bit more short term. So the short term one is by far product launches. Like, people are starting to get scared. They're starting to hold back and focus on their current products. They don't understand the ecosystem. And I'm not just talking about Amazon. It's E commerce in general, it's Facebook, it's wherever you get your traffic and your buyers from. I'm seeing a couple people kind of get a little bit worried because things are changing and they're changing really fast. And we know better than any other people, we kind of felt the same thing, but we decided to say screw it and let's launch a bunch of new products. And what we're finding is that these products are now hitting a little bit easier. And by easier I mean they're growing faster off the gate than our initial products did when we launched three years ago. So that is something, you know, just being really aggressive on product launches is something that I think is paying off big time. And the other more long term thing is by far the team. It's really hard to measure, especially in the beginning. You bring someone on for operations and it could take six months to a year for you to even be able to see the efficiencies and for them to really come through the same thing with marketing, you know, you can't just throw money into advertising and expect to get $2 back for every dollar you make. Like, you've got to test, you've got to have an optimizer, you've got to have these people in place and it's going to cost you. Like we found that out firsthand. Yet now that it's been a year, things have really started to come together and now we're starting to really see these pieces move into the right spot. So that one's defin More long term. And we're doing a lot of things. Like, I'll tell you the name change, I give full 99% credit to the team. Like, we came up with the idea, the team helped us get the name. We did a name change in three weeks and we could have ever done that without the team. Like just the dedication and just the passion and just the hard work that we saw from our team let us change our name in three weeks, which to me is like, it's still insane. So, you know, we couldn't have done that if it was just Jeremy and I and maybe a couple vas somewhere overseas.

Yeah, I want to just add to that as far as the two biggest investments from my side, definitely the team definitely investing in good people. It's not just like assembling a team of VAs on upwork for as low payroll as possible. You know, investing in good people, recognizing it won't pay off right away, but really building that core team and putting it in place. I feel like we've been doing that the last year and it's like we built the machine and we're just starting the engine now basically. And that's been definitely number one for investment. The other one would be the products as well. I mean, not looking to do the most dirt cheap product formulas possible, but having a bit of a less profit margin on our products and maybe some competitors, but really getting that extra quality and standing behind our word of, of putting out incredible products that really push the envelope, I would say is another big investment that has paid off as well.

I'm sure you guys have hit some bumps along the way of building a team because I don't know anybody who just says, yeah, I hired all amazing people who always did exactly what I had in my head from the very first go. No one says that. So what has been the thing that you've had to learn or the skill set you've had to develop when you make that pivot from this thing that you do in your Airbnb versus this thing where you have livelihoods who are dependent upon you and people who are full time and a team that is now part of the vision and creating the name, what's had to change in you to be able to learn how to lead and have a team?

That's a great question. I've had leadership in my background before. I was doing my own thing as a solopreneur, so there's some leadership experience there. It wasn't a brand new thing for me. But to answer your question, on A bit of a deeper level. Our mission as a company is twofold. It's setting a new standard of honesty and transparency in the supplement industry. That's kind of our outward vision and mission. Inwardly though, it's also being an honest and transparent workplace and creating an amazing workplace. As entrepreneurs we value freedom, we value autonomy. But it's not only entrepreneurs that value that. You know, there's been many surveys done out there that that's really the number one thing people want even as an employee is some sort of control and autonomy and freedom. And we try and provide that to all our people. We don't try, we do. And when we hire people, we make sure their values align with us first. That's paramount. That is the foundation for everything else that follows. If that's not there, we move on to the next applicant having those values in place and then obviously making sure they're within their scope of unique ability and they're in an area they're passionate about and wanting to grow in being growth minded. Having all those things in place I think has set up a winning formula for us to attract amazing talent and not really have many hiring failures. I'd love to share some horror stories with you, but there really hasn't been many. I mean, we're still young. There's eight of us total, Kevin and I and six others. We're going to add a few more in the near future, but there's no real hiring disasters that I can speak of.

Yeah, you guys are so damn optimistic. It's terrible. I keep waiting for the bad news. I guess Canada doesn't have have any bad news. Let me ask you this. What about cash flow and stress? Because that's a big change. That's like going from single to married. It sounds great, but you're going to have an adjustment period because there's other people in the room, so. And you've also just got people's livelihood on your mind. Is there a different amount of stress or do you feel like you've grown enough to be able to withstand that? What was that adjustment like?

Yeah, so that was something that, you know, especially for me, I tried not to psych myself out about. I mean, I think just bringing what I could to the table and doing my damn hardest was what I wanted to focus on. I didn't want to be tripped up by putting this new label as employer. And just to really make sure that I had confidence that we could pull this off because we did it for a reason. Right. So we knew that we could do it. When we made the decision. And then payroll starts going up, and, you know, that's not going to make me second guess myself. So, you know, I tried to be really focused on what we were doing and how it was having an impact. And, yeah, I mean, it's stressful for sure to have payroll. And, you know, we got to think, like, we're providers. Like, we got to make sure our team members get what they need. They got to pay rent, they got to buy groceries with the money that comes from us. So, like, it's a big responsibility. But with that being said, like, we pay super competitively. We've got some really amazing companies here in Vancouver, like Lululemon, Vega, Aritzia, Herschel. There's a whole bunch slack is here as well. So, you know, we've got some killer competition. And we really tried to. We care about money, but it's not the most important thing. So we put a big focus on culture, on freedom, flexibility, autonomy, and just being part of this really crazy, exciting ride of, you know, working with a small team and really getting a ton of shit done instead of working with big teams and seeing a bunch of meetings that nothing happens with. So, you know, I'm not saying that we pay cheap. In fact, you know, we pay a lot for our people. But it was about more than that, right? Like, you know, like Jeremy said, money is not the number one motivator for a lot of people, actually. It could be time off, it could be presence, acknowledgement. I mean, there's so many other things. So we try and put a real big focus on that. Like, if you follow us anywhere on social media, you'll see parties that we throw at the office. We go out and we go skiing on a random Wednesday. Like, you know, it's stuff like that that isn't even expensive to do, and it creates this massive impact so that when, you know, we need something and we do a name change, like, it gets done in 21 days, you know, it doesn't take like nine months or anything. Crazy.

I want to add one thing real quick. Like, leadership is often defined. You often hear it said, you know, it's bringing out the best in people. But to really drill that down, how do you bring out the best in people? You want to create an environment where they're happy, they're inspired, they're enthusiastic, and you don't do that by timing their freaking lunch breaks. And they need to go for an appointment. And you say, y', all, you better be back at this time. Which, actually, one of our team Members said her sister tells her stories about them timing her lunch breaks. And it's like she can't believe it. Because what we offer is so much more than that. You find good people, you trust them, you base their performance on results, not whether they're butts in a chair during certain hours. And it's amazing what you can get out of people when you create that type of environment. Real quick aside story, when we were moving into this office, one guy who was helping us with the move said to us, I can't believe this is the happiest team I've ever seen. I can't believe how happy your people are. And it just goes to show all the hard work Kevin and I put into really creating that environment and fostering that culture to create that.

Ultimately, has there been any adjustment like for the two of you in an uncomfortable shift that has been that you've needed to navigate or have you felt like just by creating the container for the right people to be motivated that as a result the whole company is kind of elevated together?

I would agree with that.

Yes.

I would also say, like I'm constantly uncomfortable. I'll completely be transparent here. I'm always pushing myself better. I'm my own worst critic and I'm always demanding a very high standard for myself. So that has helped push me to perform better. And I'm always questioning myself and the decisions I'm making, but that's just me and how I'm wired. But creating that container is definitely the name of the game at the end of the day, as far as I'm concerned.

Tell me a little about the rebranding process. How did that impact revenue? Did you have a response from your community and your customers that it impact sales? Just, I mean, it's really impressive that you guys came up with the name and rebranded in 21 days, but how did that affect the company as a whole?

Yeah, so I was actually really surprised. I was expecting a pretty negative lash back because you know, the change was all for us. Like the customer, if anything, are going to be inconvenienced by it. Right. Because they've got this new company name that they're buying from. They're asking questions, is the product the same? Did you change the formula? Am I getting the same thing? This is really confusing. And what we found was that there was no real negative impact, especially over time. The reason why was we did it really fast. We made sure that we over communicated. So on every product page, every email, the footers, the headers, the website, there were Pop ups, like everywhere we could think of. We had messaging for like four months from the day of the name change on about, hey, our name has changed, but everything else is the same. So all we did was change the name and in fact, we refined the branding a little bit. It got a little bit more towards the direction that we wanted, but none of the products changed. And I think that was the key. If we were going around and switching products and changing names and also changing the company name, I can see how that would have a negative impact. But really people are just, you know, they want to know, a, is the product that I'm getting the same? And the answer was yes. And B, I like the new name. Great. I know where to buy from you guys. I like you. I'm going to stick with you. Great. So, you know, it's not like sales skyrocketed at all by changing the name. I never expected that. But they also didn't go down, so we didn't see any negative impact.

Got it. I know that was kind of a concern of yours going in of like, what is this going to mean? But it's interesting to see that if you've done your branding right and you have your audience dialed in, that was not as scary as a transition as many people would make it out to be.

That's a bit daunting at first, but you know, in the digital age, it's not like we have brick and mortar stores and signage and stuff that you change in the digital age. You do an auto redirect on your dot com, you change your social media, it's a done deal. And the biggest thing was labels like the branding and the label redesigns. But that's all been done and everything has been sold out of the older ones for the most part. We're almost there. We did a full transition right at the beginning and it was clean. It was very clean.

I've also noticed that in your social media, you're doing a lot more Facebook Live, you're doing a lot more more content, you're doing a lot more to stand out as a brand that is bigger than, you know, bigger than a one trick pony, bigger than just Amazon. So tell me a bit about that process. What have your results been? What have you found helpful? What has been frustrating? What's that process been like?

Like I said, I mean our vision and our why is setting a new standard of honesty and transparency. That's not just with our products, it's with our company, who we are as the people and the faces behind the company and putting out credible evidence based information, not all the pseudoscience you see floating around out there in the supplement industry. And that's really been a pleasure. Like we've enjoyed doing this. A lot of it was waiting for this new office because we were crammed in this really small space that didn't really look that good. But our plans moving forward, we're just getting started with the content, Ryan. We're going to be putting out a whole lot more, lots more videos, getting YouTube going and just starting conversations and dialogue with our customers and getting good quality education, educational information out there and just building an audience. If there's been any frustration, it's just getting that real viewership and audience. But I mean, we can't expect that overnight. That's just a slow process of building it out and chipping away and just being consistent with our content. At the end of the day, ultimately.

Is there a specific strategy that you're following or did someone inspire this or did you just say that, you know, you wanted to get a good person on the team who could lead that efforts and go build that audience?

Yeah, so I was just gonna speak to the strategy. So we were kind of doing it in phases. Phase one was just getting, I hate to use the word awareness, but that's kind of what it was, was literally doing content and putting out cool stuff of the goodness of our hearts and just doing it to build up an audience. And we got an audience to. We're at like 12,000 ish between all of our social platforms now and we'll grow a lot by the end of the year. But you know, it was kind of, you know, it took a while to get that first 10, 12,000 and we found it worked the best by just putting out really great content. I hate to be the guy to say that because a lot of people say that, but we really just put it out. So we do Facebook Live, we'll do stuff on Snapchat, Instagram. We're also getting a lot more into video. Ryan, I know you're a king of that, so maybe I'll have to call you up about it. What we found is now that we're at this point of around 10, 12,000 now, things are picking up and what we want to do is transition into phase two, which is doing a lot more content based funnels. So we want to be still giving away a ton of great stuff. If you watch any video or read any blurb or any blog post or anything from us, you have to learn something and it should provide value to your life. But in phase two, we're going to always lead that towards an opt in, a sale, a special promo, getting on our list. You know, we're not just now, we're not just doing it out of the goodness of our hearts. We ultimately want it to lead to something and that's totally cool because our products solve a lot of the problems that people have. So ultimately we're helping them the most by leading them towards one of our products. So, you know, a lot of the content you'll see this year if you follow us on social media, it's going to be amazing content, but it's always going to lead into something. So whether it's a new product launch, a email, opt in, a PDF, a webinar, anything like that, what we're really doing is really building up all those contact points so that when we launch a new product we can go to, let's say 50,000 people on Facebook and knock it out of the park before we even go to another channel, for example. So we're doing it in phases and I think over this year we're going to see a lot of that steam pick up. Now that we're driving it more towards offers instead of just regular good old content.

I think that's the right way to go. Now let me ask you this, and this is such an unfair question, but you've made a lot of hires, you've taken some tactical risks, you've launched a lot of products. Have there been any specific things that had a larger than expected either ROI or growth on the business or impact in your audience? Specific positions that you filled, specific activities that you made a habit, specific channel through which you shared your content? I know that's loaded, but you guys have done so much in the last year. Have there been specific things that when focused on, created a bigger than expected impact?

So in the beginning we're a products company. We focus a lot on products and what we could bring to the market and just do product research and put it out there. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, it's actually how we found a lot of our best selling products. But now that we've got an actual community, we've got a base of people, we've got recurring buyers, we've got people that call us up on the phone and you know, just want to talk to us because they love us so much, is now we're becoming more of a people company. And by people I mean a customer based company. So what we've Done is we've taken the concept which it's slipping my mind who came up with it, so forgive me, whoever it is, is the concept.

Of probably me, it had to be me.

Is the concept of getting your first 100 raving fans and then your first a thousand. Yeah, it was Tom Bilyeu from Quest. So, you know, he talks about this a lot. He spoke at your event, Ryan, and he brought up the same concept of all you need is that first 100 and then that first thousand raving fans. And those will be your messengers. Those will be the people that can exponentially spread your message because they're so passionate. What we've done is we've started to create that community using a Facebook group. Our email list, there's a whole bunch of really cheap, easy ways to do it. But when you put all those people together in one place, a, it's really easy to serve them because you keep them together, it's organized. And B, you give them a voice and you can propose a question and say, guys, what do you think? And they can discuss it, they can go back and forth. And you know, Ryan, you know, you talk about this a lot. There's quite a few companies that you are a messenger of, that you're one of those 1,000 fans where you just, you love a brand, you're willing to talk a lot of smack about them if they do something wrong and you want to praise them when they do something right. Going down that path has been pretty key because now we can just serve the people that we've already built up. And ultimately, I mean, isn't that the purpose of our company, just to serve the people that buy our stuff? You know, it's a pretty win win. It's a good cycle to have. So being a much more customer based company rather than just a product based company has been pretty key for us.

That makes total sense. It makes total sense. And I'm curious, like, you're doing a lot to engage that audience right now. So have you found that any of the specific tactics or specific strategies of engaging them are creating more raving fans than others like you do? I know you should do Facebook Live and you do content. What have you found have the most engagement for you?

Yeah, it's a tough one. There's a lot of little things that are put together. You know, for example, the Facebook Live is something that we just said, hey, like let's, let's give it a try and we don't reach a lot of people with it. Right. You know, it's not like we have 14,000 people watching, but obviously you were one of the Ryan. And that content is spreading and where we're going, like I said, is in phase two with actually being able to get a tangible result. So I don't, you know, social media gets a bad rep because people are like, where's the roi? You can't get an ROI from social. I think you can. I think you need to get to the point where you've got a little bit of mass appeal and it doesn't mean like a million followers. It doesn't mean, you know, 500 million views on YouTube. I think it means just getting those core people together, get them to like you enough and then you'll get people just like them to spread and then you'll get the casual people who, you know, what if they see one Facebook post from us a week, you know, that's enough for them and we stay top of mind and when they go to reach for their next sleep problem or energy problem or mood problem, you know, they'll think of us. So where we're going is really being focused on, you know, leading into more results. Part of it is community and just the simple fact of putting like minded people together. And then the second benefit is actually getting a result from it. So, you know, it's not like this magical machine where you do a Facebook post and you know, make money.

I mean.

If you do, let me know.

Yeah, me too. The thing I love about this is that there is this perception, especially with people who sell on Amazon, that they need to do something in order to be independent of Amazon rather than just building a company and a fan base that supports you regardless of where you are for sale. And that's what you're doing is you're leveraging the cash flow and the audience that is coming from your Amazon presence. But you're leveraging that to build an audience in several different areas that are gonna follow you. Whether they have to buy you from Jet or Walmart, it doesn't matter because it's you. And that's what a brand is like. That, that's why people choose brands and you're just doing it in a very systematic way that is slow and steady and is going to result in you winning and getting that 50 million versus everybody else who gives up long before Ryan.

You just, you hit the nail on the head. It's slow and steady and it requires immense amount of patience. Lots of people getting into this Internet game and people starting out on Amazon a couple years ago, I mean, I Frankly think we were quite spoiled. You could really launch products fast, gain traction and get revenue. But that's not building a conventional business. A real E Comm business and a brand requires an immense amount of patience chipping away one day at a time. And I mean, I just wanted to comment on and expand on what you said there because I agree 100%, slow and steady wins the race.

What do you see as the 6 to 12 month window right now? Or are you even thinking that far ahead? Is it more of like a daily progression of new products and new audience, or do you have kind of a vision of what the company looks like? Looks like after you go through this.

Growth period, we're starting to get more used to thinking ahead. And you know, six to 12 months can sometimes feel really far away. But we didn't even have an office 11 and a half months ago. And Jeremy and I just said this morning, you know, we're shocked at how fast the time went. So I think looking ahead even further is really important. We're starting to think about three years ahead and what happens then. As far as 2017 goes, product count's gonna more than double. So be really aggressively focused on launching new products. Expanding to new channels is gonna be another big one. And a big recurring theme is gonna be, in a way, it's control. So what we're gonna do to take back a little bit of control, not away from Amazon, but more to gain it from another area, is to be a little bit more independent on how we generate traffic, where we bring that traffic to how we serve them and how we follow up. So that's kind of a, you know, a convoluted way to say that we're going to be really focused on like digital funnels, focused on content, focused on bringing, going into those little pockets all around the Internet. You know, there's so many little communities, whether it's the vegan community, you know, the hardcore community, the casual community, and going in and just trying to serve them as best we can and ultimately being able to lead them towards a solution better. You know, that's one of the downfalls with having a very restricted channel as Amazon is. The buyer experience is great. You know, you get fast shipping for free, it's one click buy. It shows up every time, you trust it. Like that's what Amazon built their business on. The hard part though is the education and in sometimes the consumer trust. Like it's very difficult to get sometimes the core components of a company from an Amazon listing. I mean, it's just it's the way it's built, it's not built for that. So moving in that direction where we can do that on our own website and our own marketing, our own Facebook ads, that's really where we're going to put the focus. Because, you know, a great benefit, we get control. Yay. I mean, that's ultimately better for the consumer and B, they just get a better experience. You know, we can almost match Amazon shipping if we don't ship from their warehouse and a lot of other great goodies that you can't get on Amazon. So I really think there's benefits and perks to, you know, Ryan, you're probably sick of hearing it from people sometimes of getting off Amazon. I mean, it's not like Amazon's this great giant that's going to crush you. I mean, I think that people are fearful of that and we've seen a couple, you know, crazy times where we thought that might be true. But ultimately you just focus on making your business better and serving your customers and more than just one big channel. Right. Like Amazon is only X percent of online e commerce revenue. You know, there's a lot of stuff being bought away from Amazon. Right. So there's pockets of people out there that need your stuff that don't even have an Amazon account. And that's what we're going to be focused on in 2017.

My last question for you guys is this. I know the last time we spoke you were at least more dependent on one or two SKUs than you were comfortable being. And I don't think that's the case anymore. You're much more balanced. You have a lot more sales on other products. What, if anything, did you change or what's different now that has given you more of a balanced approach versus being heavily dependent on one or two products?

I'll just comment real quick and then let Kevin add his 2 cents. I think it's just launching more products, Ryan. I mean the more products you have out there, the more things there are to buy. And it naturally will diversify your revenue sources. We still have our, you know, our main players, definitely, but just continuously putting out new products that are, I should emphasize that are in line with what our customers and who our avatar of a customer is and what they're buying. That's critical. Not just being a random sort of throwing darts at a board with our product launches, but really getting to know our customer more, what they're buying, what a good cross sell product would be, that naturally diversifies the revenue sources. And I'LL let Kevin expand on that.

Yeah, I'd agree with that, Ryan. We also took some advice from you can't remember if it was public or private, but you told us to just really focus in on what we have. Like, it definitely helps that you launch new products, but if that's all you're doing, you're putting all this time and effort and all this love and care into a product launch. And, like, you're doing everything you can to make it blow up the second it hits market. But what happens if it doesn't? Like, do you just love it?

No.

And the problem is, you know, you invest so much into inventory. You've got product sitting in a warehouse. You can't afford to just let it sit. And so we try to put a big focus on getting a better review rate, getting a better conversion rate, getting more sessions of the page, like trying to optimize our current products. And we've really seen that pay off. Like, some of the ones that were frankly not doing so well this time last year are just knocking it out of the park this year because they're really taking off. And with that being said, I mean, we take some risks and we launched a product or two that did not hit in the market. In fact, you know, no matter what we do, the product is just not hitting. And I think it's a channel problem, but, you know, that's something else for another day. It's really, you know, putting as much time and effort into an existing product as you would for a new product.

And yeah, another big lesson is not all products have the same trajectory as far as when they take off. Like Kevin just said, we had some products we were really, really pushing for the last year, and it was hard to pick up steam, but out of nowhere, they just. They just take off. Whether it's, you know, it reaches critical mass, it gets enough, you know, word of mouth, you hit a certain amount of reviews, whatever it is, there's different timelines on when a product will really take off. That's a lesson we've taken as well.

Well, gentlemen, I am so proud of what you have done. And I think you're just such a great example of the fact that entrepreneurship is really creating things out of thin air. This didn't exist three years ago, and these jobs didn't exist three years ago. This multimillion dollar business didn't exist three years ago. And you built it out of nowhere by providing value. And your customers are better off. The two of you are better off. Your employees are better off. So thank you for being an example of that. I was actually at lunch with John Mackey a couple weeks ago and he said that capitalism is the one thing in the world that kind of violates the law of thermodynamics because it literally creates more than existed before. And I think you're a perfect example of that. So keep on changing the world. Guys, thanks for sharing your story with us.

Thanks for having us, buddy.

Love you, man. Thanks, Ryan.

If you have a mindset like Kevin and or Jeremy do, then I want to help you grow a successful, impactful business that you're proud of. If you have a long term mindset, if you want to build something real that makes people's lives better, if you want a business that you can scale into the multi millions and you're willing to put in the work, then we have a track record of turning people with that mindset into really successful entrepreneurs. Inside of our Brand Builder Bootcamp training, it'll walk you through everything you need to know to have a product up and selling consistently within 90 days. So whether you have an idea or not, we can help you start your business and be taking orders 90 days from now. Just this morning I had a really awesome Facebook post get put into the Facebook community for Brand Builder Bootcamp of someone saying that they took their first sale about a month after joining, so they got their product up and selling within less than 45 days. So less than half the time of the training they were also already taking sales. So now they're gonna implement all the marketing strategies that we teach inside the bootcamp to be growing that business. That's the first step to have your first product up and selling consistently. And inside of the tribe, we help people duplicate that process and be able to grow bigger than Amazon and have a real business that can go into the seven figures like we've helped hundreds of people do. And then eventually I hope you'll join our backroom mastermind, which is where Kevin and Jeremy are, and we can help you grow even bigger from there and be around some of the most impactful and successful capitalists in our community. So if you are just starting out, but you're listening to Kevin and Jeremy and you're saying I want that, then I would encourage you to go to freedomfastlane.combootcamp and sign up for the Brand Builder bootcamp. Give it 90 days to have a product up and selling consistently and be on the path to building a successful physical products business. As always, I appreciate your support here at Freedom Fastlane. I believe it's capitalists and entrepreneurs who solve the biggest problems, who create the greatest change and that move the world forward because we are creating the change that we want to believe in. Thanks for listening to Freedom fastlane presented by capitalism.com we'll see you on the next episode.