Hiring Secrets: How You Can Build The Right Team And Free Up Your Life w/ Nathan Hirsch #BrandBuilderPodcast

Hiring is hard, so you make some bad hires and you finally find someone you like. So what do you do? You load them up with everything. And short term it might be great, but long term, it makes your business incredibly risky and it can set you back months. So make sure you're diversifying as you're hiring.

Welcome to the Brand Builder podcast presented by capitalism.com I'm Max Kerwick and I advise physical product brands to find their story.

I'm Ryan Daniel Moran and I invest in physical products brands. A physical products brand is arguably the most predictable path to a seven figure business. And we advise them, build them, buy them and sell them.

The show goes behind them, tracks their success and hands you the keys to what's working.

Let's dive in.

Hey there and welcome to this week's episode of the Brand Builder podcast. This is Max here, and I'm here this week with an interview with Nathan Hirsch. He is the founder and CEO of a outsourcing company called Free Up. That's Free up with three E's. And I wanted to bring Nathan on because hiring, I know this from my own experience as an entrepreneur, is one of the hardest skills to build and to do effectively. Right. And, you know, regardless of whether you're hiring a full time person that's going to be sitting in the desk next to you in an office that you own, or if you're hiring your very first freelancer, if you don't have experience hiring and you don't have experience managing, that can be a very difficult, a very frustrating, a very time consuming, and most of all very expensive learning curve to get better at. So I want to bring on someone that obviously has a ton of experience hiring people and, you know, runs a platform doing it. And I've used Freeup myself and you can find some good people on there and everything. But yeah. So this interview with Nathan I think is going to be really valuable. If you're not familiar with Freeup, I recommend checking it out. It's really geared towards e commerce businesses and Amazon businesses specifically. So a lot of valuable people on there that kind of know what they're doing and you can get people at a variety of costs. But if you have any questions or feedback for me on the episode, once you get done, you can reach out to me directly@max brandbuilderstrategy.com but otherwise, without further ado, here is my interview with Nathan Hirsch.

Hey, capitalists. Before we jump into today's episode, I actually want to brag on myself for a second. I've got a podcast episode that I think got overlooked. I think is one of the best ones I ever did. For those of you who sell on Amazon or those of you who run e commerce businesses and it's called Only Invest in Multipliers, I would highly encourage you to go look that up if you haven't heard it before. In it, I argue why you should not fund your own inventory. Because if you're funding your own inventory, you are tying up all of your money into a place that you could be otherwise using for advertising and people and growth. And I explained how to use other people's money in that episode. What I wish I had back then was access to more resources for capital. Back then, when I recorded that episode, there were only a few sources that lended to Internet business owners. But one of my backroom members just launched a business that exists only to fund inventory orders for physical products brands. And it's called sellers Funding. This is something that I wanted to do for a long time. In fact, when I used to cast my vision for capitalism.com, it included a lending source for for physical product owners. But one of my backroom members beat me to the punch and he actually did it better than I could have ever done. So that business is called Sellers Funding and they loan to E commerce sellers to allow them to free up the rest of their capital to invest in things like advertising so you can actually grow your business. I would highly encourage you to listen to that episode called Only Invest in Multipliers and then to look at other funding sources, especially sellers Funding, because they're in my network and I know what they're up to and they're doing cool things in the world. You can check them out@capitalism.com funding and I think this is a game changer for your growth as a business.

Okay, so we're here with Nathan Hirsch, today, CEO and founder of the Free Up Marketplace. How are you doing today, Nathan?

I'm doing great. How are you?

I'm doing great. Really glad to have you on. So Nathan is not only an expert in all things hiring and outsourcing, but also a pretty accomplished Amazon and E commerce seller yourself. Is that correct?

Yeah, I started back in 2008 before all the courses.

Yeah. Oh man, you're OG Amazon. There's. I know. Okay, cool. Well, I'm really excited to have you on. Like I told you before we jumped on here, I have a lot of people that reach out to me, both, you know, kind of people who are earlier stage in their journey, you know, that just listen to the podcast and are curious about hiring. And then I have a lot of clients. They're at the stage where they're maybe they're hiring their first full time person or they've hired a couple people and they're hiring their first higher level full time person, things like that. But I think hiring is something that regardless of your position and your industry and all that kind of stuff, it is a really tough nut to crack. And when you're an entrepreneur and you have no guidance, you have no HR department, you have no best practices that someone's handing you, it can be even harder. So really excited for this conversation.

Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things that doesn't get talked about enough. It's really tough to scale your business. There's very few $1 million or $5 million a year solo entrepreneurs out there. And for some reason, people give up on hiring. I mean, if you were growing a business and you had some failure in marketing, you're not just gonna say, oh, I'm not gonna market my business anymore. But for some reason, people do that with hiring. They make a few bad hires and they're like, oh, hiring's not for me. I'll just do everything myself. And at some point you hit a wall, you get stuck, and you can't scale past a certain level.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's really interesting that you compare it to a function like marketing. Right. Cause that's probably not how, like, oh, no, like I have to do marketing, I have to do accounting, all that stuff. But hiring is optional and like, no, it's not. Right?

Yeah, it's one of those things that they don't really teach you in school either. Every entrepreneur has to do it. And a lot of times it's a difference between success and failure. But there's no one out there teaching you best practices.

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Except for you right now. So, um, so yeah, I guess before we dive into. Because I have a lot of kind of specific questions that come from, you know, conversations that I've had and frankly from my own experiences. But before we dive into that, do you want to give us maybe kind of the two to three minute, you know, backstory and let us know who you are and kind of what you're all about. Yeah.

So I mentioned I was an E commerce seller. I started off with selling books in college. I was a broke college kid looking for extra side money. And I got a cease and desist letter from my school telling me to knock it off because I was stealing too much of their business.

That's awesome.

I knew I had to pivot and I had this Amazon store. I was selling some of my books there, some of them to other bookstores. I thought it was cool, I could have this 247 store and I just had to figure out what to sell. I started experimenting with computer games, video games, typical college guy stuff through trial and error. Keep in mind there was no Jungle Scout or anything back then. I came across baby products. And if you can imagine me as a 20 year old single college guy selling baby products on Amazon, that was me. And my business really blew up. It was the wild, wild west back then. And I met with an accountant. I was making money. I thought I should probably pay taxes. So the first thing he asked me was, when are you going to hire your first person? And I kind of shrugged him off, like, why would I do that? That's money out of my pocket. They're going to steal my ideas, they're going to hurt my business. Pretty standard entrepreneur stuff. And he just laughed in my face and he said, you're going to learn this lesson on your own. Sure enough, my first busy season comes around the fourth quarter. I don't know what busy season is, what the fourth quarter in E commerce is like. And I just get destroyed. I'm working 20 hours a day, my grades plummet, my social life goes down, and I make it to January because I'm a hard worker. And I think to myself, I can never let that happen again. I need to start hiring people. So I'm 20. What do I know about hiring people? I throw a job on Facebook. This guy in my business law class messages me, says I need a job. I say, you're hired. And he gets started. And he ends up being an unbelievable hire. He's hard working, he's smart, he brings.

A lot to the team.

I luck out and he's my business partner today. He's my business partner for years in my Amazon business. Business partner with Freeop. His name's Connor Gillivan. And there I am thinking, man, this hiring thing is easy. You post a job on Facebook, someone shows up, you make more money, life becomes good. And I just proceed to make bad hire after bad hire after bad hire. And I quickly realized college kids, not very reliable. No 30 year old wants to work for me. So I pivot to the remote hiring world. The upworks and the fibers and some good hires. I have some people that are still with me today, but I just really frustrated with how long it took me to post a job, get 100 applicants, interview them one by one. And that's really when I came up with the concept of the free up marketplace, where we get thousands of applicants, vet them, top 1% get in, clients don't have to browse. They put in a request and we fill it. And on the back end, 24,7 support in case they have even the smallest issue. And that no turnover guarantee because turnover just kills businesses where if someone does quit, we cover replacement costs. So that's a short version of how I went from college kid to baby products to free up.

Nice. Okay, cool. So there's a couple things that I want to go back to. There one is, I mean, on one hand, getting lucky with your first hire like that and getting to the point where he's still your business partner today, you know, whatever, 10 years later, that's awesome. But I have to say that probably also, like, did that make your process of getting good at hiring even longer because you're like, oh, no, I have this success story that, that I can point back to. I'm just getting bad people. This is the other people's fault. Like, I see a lot of that in hiring where people are like, oh, I'm just getting bad applicants, or, oh, I'm just getting like, the people I'm hiring are just bad. They're selfish, they're lazy, whatever.

Yeah, it's a great point. And I think you're absolutely right. I kind of was that mentality that if I just, like, keep hiring people, eventually I'll just know it when I see it. And I'm so good at picking people because I got the first one right that I'll be able to do that. And. And it wasn't until I changed my mindset and I was like, all right, why are these people not working out? Yeah, there's all these external stuff, but I need to focus on what I can control. What I can control is how clear I am with my job description, what my processes are. Like, what are my interview process, my interview questions, how am I setting expectations after the hire, how am I managing and leading people? So once you get out of the mentality that it's always everyone's fault and everyone's lazy and. And no one's going to do as good job as me. And you start focusing on saying, okay, no one has a 100% hiring record. It doesn't exist. There's going to be mistakes along the way. But if I focus on what I can control, I'm going to get that percentage higher and higher and higher over time. That's when you start getting good at hiring.

Nice. And so how have you taken. You know, you've done this so many times, Right. You've done this in your own business. And then especially free up. I imagine that just kind of exponentially increases the number of times that you kind of go through this process. How do you take those learnings on what it takes to get a good hire and apply them in your marketplace?

Yeah. So first of all, the application process, get on our platform is the same application process from our Amazon business. We took it, we tweaked it to make it more of a marketplace, but we're always improving it just because we have a lot of success now. We've been growing. People seem to like the freelancers. There's always going to be issues. Right. 99% of the time they do a great job. That 1% they don't. We do reflection. We say, how did that person get through our interview process? What can we change and adjust to make sure that same type of person doesn't get through again? And on the flip side, if someone really good gets through and they're billing lots of hours and their clients are emailing us how happy they are, we want to say, how do we get more people like that? How do we recruit them? How do we match them up and realize that they're that good before they get through? So it's a constant, evolving process. And I feel like that's another area where businesses that have been in business for a lot of years mess up is they say, this is my process. It's set in stone, it's worked before, but they're not making improvements, they're not adjusting.

Interesting. Okay.

So I feel like a lot of the. There's some kind of key inflection points when it comes to hiring that are where I typically see people struggle. Right. The first is like, okay, I'm finally at the point where I'm generating enough, you know, income and everything to start to hire out. My first task, say, maybe customer service or say, you know, Amazon PPC or something like that, and they're looking at hiring their first freelancer. And then there's the other point that I see a lot of people struggle is like, okay, maybe I've gotten to, like, right at seven figures, and I'm trying to decide, okay, do I keep doing the freelancer thing, where I keep hiring a freelancer here, freelancer there, and kind of build out a network of people that I work with or Do I bring something in house? Right. And make my first kind of full time hire? So can you talk about kind of those, those two points and kind of what you see people do well, what you see people do wrong, all that kind of stuff?

Yeah. And keep in mind I'm biased. I own a remote platform. But I, one of the things I wanted to do when I set out to build this platform was I think you can go remote with pretty much everything. Unless you're, you need a warehouse staff or a cashier. Obviously those can't be remote positions, but I think you can do everything else remote because I've seen other people do it remote. So when I'm building the free up platform and I started it with $5,000, we grew from a million to 5 million to 9 million. So hopefully we do eight figures this year. We're entirely remote. We have no office, we only hire from our own platform. So it's almost like that, that proof of concept or we're trying to prove to other people that hey, you can do it because we're doing it and we're scaling in that same way that we want to help you scale. And I mean, who knows, maybe at 15 million if we get there, hopefully we do. Then it's like, okay, we need an office or we need full time people in house. But I'm kind of curious to see how far we can push this thing. I have clients that do all sorts of things. I have people that are only remote. I have some people that are just in office staff and, and they just hire remote people for certain projects that come up. Or maybe they give their full time people an assistant so that their full time people making $60,000 a year, only focusing on $60,000 a year tasks and small things that come in and all different types of mixes. But it really comes down to, I mean, your management style, whether you can handle managing people remote because it's a lot different than doing in house. But also just your mentality in business in general. I was talking to Casey Goss of Viral Launch. We were just at Seller Summit and he's like, no, I can only manage people if I'm, if I'm, if they're in my office ready to go. And he's a young entrepreneur, he's crushing it. But that's his management style. And I have other clients who are way different. So I don't think there's a right or wrong. I think just like anything else, it's more of pros and cons.

Okay, how about just hiring Someone to do a specific task. So something like graphic design, packaging design, designing, listing images. That's pretty obvious. Like okay, I need to go find someone who has this specific skill and you know, get them to do a project for me. Right, that's pretty obvious. Most people run into that very early in their business, right when it's starting versus something like customer service or PPC management or whatever. Like as it scales up, that could be like one person where you occupy 40 hour workweek with them and they are like more or less your employee. Remote or in office, it doesn't matter. But let's use remote since use a remote marketplace. How do you decide? You know, okay, I'm going to keep working with this one person and just kind of treat them as a full time employee versus continuing to go out and find specialists and just task them with more specific project based work.

Yeah, it's very much that pro and con game. You kind of have to weigh it out. I mean the project based people are nice because it keeps you flexible and scalable and you can almost create a Rolodex of people you can go to. I have clients who are sellers that'll have two or three listers, two or three graphic designers on their account and they just go to them for different things. And then as their business grows and maybe they do need 40 hours a week of listing people and they'll hire a freelancer on the platform and they're still one of many other clients that freelancer has. Maybe they buy them off the platform and make them a full time employee in their business. Or there's even another way to go about it where it's saying, okay, hiring one person is risky. If I invest all my time and energy into them and they quit, they get sick, whatever it is. Maybe I'm better fit paying for an agency that is. I mean we have many agencies on our platform that are, let's say five to 10 person people, maybe even less. And yes, you still get that personal approach. They're not breaking the bank. We're not working with these huge gigantic agencies. But they're also very scalable. The chances of you waking up one day and the agency just saying, oh, I'm dropping you is a lot smaller than that solo person. And as your business grows, maybe you need more than 40 hours a week worth of work and they scale with you. You don't have to worry about getting a second person and hoping they get along with the first person. So there's different ways to go about it. And everyone's in a different position in their business and in their life. And sometimes it takes little tweaking and trial and error to see what works. It makes sense for you.

Got it. Okay, cool. So I guess on the agency question, you know, do you see.

You know, I feel like agencies for some people are. That's all they're. They're used to working with or whatever. And then for others it's just like, oh my God, I never work with an agency. I feel like I just get pitched, you know, by the president of the business and then I only ever talk to his intern kind of thing. What are your thoughts? Obviously you have them on the platform, so you vetted them and things like that. But what are situations where you see people hire agencies successfully?

Yeah, and I think that's the biggest turnoff of agencies. Right. You just deal with salespeople at the top and you don't know who's actually doing the work. And we have strict agency guidelines for people before. For agencies before they get on our platform. It's all based on that. I mean, I've hired agencies before. I'm sure you had too. And it's almost that similar bad experience across the board. So we tend to work with many agencies, five to 10 person people, where you don't just become another number where the owner can actually do everything in the business and isn't just a salesperson. And we don't expect them to do everything. They can outsource it. They can have their own team. But if you're hiring them for PPC and you have a PPC issue, you need to be able to talk to the owner and the owner needs to understand PPC and what's going on inside your account. Customer service is huge. They need to be able to respond within a business day and actually make situations. Right. If mistakes do happen or just treat you like, we want all of our freelancers and virtual assistants on our platform to teach clients and then comes pricing and results. We want people who are reasonably priced that have a past track record. Success obviously doesn't guarantee future success for every business, but we want to put people in position to succeed. So that's what we look for. That's what I encourage people to look for in an agency. Usually it's those huge agencies where quality control just goes out the window that people run into a lot of issues.

Okay, cool. Yeah, that's so fair. And that's been my experience too. You know, it's just like when you're just. And especially when you work with a big agency and you're a very small client to them. You could be a $5 million company and for a big agency that would be a pretty small book of business for them. Right. And you will just the quality plummets. But I agree with you, that kind of 5, 10 range, like there's enough people that it's scalable, that if your account person doesn't show up for work or get sick or God forbid, gets hit by a bus, like, you know, the work will continue kind of thing.

So yeah, I mean we want to build those personal relationships too. Like we have a PPC agency on our platform that crushes it. 5 to 10 person agency. And I was at a, I was at Prosper and they were there and a client was there and they met in person and it was like they were really good friends and they'd been working together for a year. And that's the kind of relationship we wanted to all our agencies and our clients to have.

Nice. Okay, cool. What do you see, like what are some common threads of people that come on the platform that you see have a lot of success? Like is it the types of jobs that they're looking for? Is it the way that they interview people? Like, what do you see as the common threads that tie together your successful clients?

So I like to break it down into three levels of people that you can hire. You've got the basic five to ten bucks an hour. Non us virtual assistants, they have years of experience because we're not a platform for newbies. But they're followers. They're there to follow your systems, your processes. Then you got the mid level, the specialists, the graph designers, the bookkeepers, the Amazon listers. They're there to do something. At a high level. You're not teaching a graphic designer how to be a graphic designer. They're not consulting with you either. And then you got the experts, the high level freelancers, consultants, agencies that are bringing their own strategy, their own systems and own process to the table. Now where people do it right or do it wrong is when they, they try to hire the wrong level. So someone might try to hire a follower. Let's say it's for sourcing. And they don't have a process for sourcing. They just say go find me profitable products. And that usually doesn't end well. Or the mid level people who they're trying to teach a mid level specialist to write a listing exactly how they want it done, where really they should be hiring a follower to teach them and train them to do it their way. Or you See this all the time with someone will hire an agency for strategy and then a few weeks in they're saying, oh no, do this or, or try it my way. Do you really want an agency or high level freelancer who's had a lot of success doing it their way to experiment with your way on your account? It doesn't make a lot of sense. So that's where I see a lot of success is when people really know I need a follower, a doer, an expert, or vice versa. Where they don't get those expectations because they're just operating in that wrong level.

Got it. Okay, that's really interesting. So you know, if you have a task that's just like, okay, I have a really clear SOP set up, really clear standard, standard operating procedure that lays out, okay, this is how you do, this is how you do this, this is how you do that, and you just need someone to execute it, then maybe you can get that five to $10 person. But if you need someone who has a skill set and kind of knows what they're doing, then you need that middle tier. And if you don't know what you're doing, then you get the person that's more of a strategic level. Is that a good summary?

Yeah, definitely. And at some point with the followers, they're only as good as your sop, as your process. Again, focusing on what you can control. If you hire three VAs and they're going through your SOP and they're confused and they're making mistakes and they're not doing what you want, you have to do some self reflection there. What can I do to make those sops better, clearer? Get my business more into that McDonald's model where you can plug anyone in and they do things exactly the way you wanted it. And sometimes that does take some time to develop it and to figure out how to communicate with people outside of the U.S. yeah.

Okay, nice. And so that brings up an interesting point about SOPs and just processes and all that kind of stuff in general, what would you say is kind of like the minimal amount of stuff that you need to come to the table with when you're ready to start hiring.

So this is how I structure an sop. And I think we all know my step two, the abcd. This is how you do things and you evolve it over time and make it better and you adjust the feedback and you add stuff in. But for me, people miss that one and that three. So for me the one is information about your business and what the actual goals Are if people don't know why they're doing what they're doing, then usually they're not going to get you the results you need. And the things that I'll even throw in there is, hey, here are past people we've hired for the role. I won't give names, but I'll explain. This is why it worked well or this is why it didn't work well. This is what resulted in failure. This is what success looks like. The more information you provide them at the top of the sop, the easier it's going to make the rest of the SOP for everyone. And then the third thing, which I also think a lot of people forget, is that do not do for any reason part of the sop. So let's say that you're an agency and you hire a VA to do customer service. You might put in there, hey, here are my top three clients. If this client emails you and you haven't been working with us for more than three months, just respond back saying you're going to escalate it to me and let me respond to it. I don't want you to respond to my top clients right away. Or do not contact seller support for any reason. It could be whatever your big do nots are, but you have to lay those out because what another client might want them to do, you might not want them to do for any reason. If you don't make that clear and almost make a cheat sheet, sometimes you'll wake up and stuff will happen that you really don't want in your business.

Yep. Nice. Okay. I like that a lot. So, yeah, I especially like the what does success look like? I think that, that, you know, as someone who, you know, has a consulting background, that was a transformative question in my career when I figured out how to, how to ask that up front. Because then both you and the person that you're hiring have a very clear expectation of this is where we're headed. And if at the end of the journey we're not there, then one of us fucked up, right? And we need to be able to say like, okay, this is an issue, like we need to go, go back and solve it. So I love that question. What is, you know, what does success look like at the end of this? And I think that that's true both on an individual task level, but then on a relationship level in general. If you're working on a bigger project or whatever, that can be a good way to.

Yeah, those expectations are key. I mean, things that turn into a He said, she said down the line or people not on the same page, it's almost always because didn't spend enough time on those expectations or you didn't get it in writing or in some way you were not on the same page. So spending that extra time getting in writing, I even will scare people a little bit. Scare is probably not the right word, but I would much rather someone backs out before they start working with me because, oh, your expectations are too high. I can't meet them then for us to run into issues in two months. And I can always make more money, but I'm never going to get that time back. So for me, that expectations up front is so important.

Yeah, no, I love that. Okay, cool. So if you had to boil it down to like three things, someone who's making their first kind of remote hires, what would the three like? Their three recommendations that they didn't do anything else that they needed to do before they hired.

Yeah. So the first thing is know what you're looking for. We talked about the three levels, but there's other factors involved too. What price point can you actually afford? The last thing you want to do is invest time and money to someone and then realize you can't pay for it. Are they full time, are they part time, are they project based? What type of people do you work well with? Really identifying what that perfect person looks like or perfect agency or it could be perfect full time office employee. The same thing applies figuring out what that perfect person looks like before you start the process. Second is that is interviewing. And when I say interviewing, a lot of people make the mistake of just interviewing for skill. And I used to interview for skill. Someone would have five years of experience, they would look great on paper, and then three months it would blow up in my face and I'd be wondering how is this person that's so talented not a good fit? And that's because I'm only vetting for skill, not for attitude and communication as well.

How do you do that? How do you vet for attitude and communication?

Yeah. So I'll start with skill. For skill, you don't need everyone to be a 10 out of 10. They can be a 5 out of 10 or a 3 out of 10 or what you care about is are they honest about what they can and cannot do and are they priced accordingly for attitude, you want people who are passionate about what they do, people who aren't just in it for a paycheck, people who don't get aggressive. The second that something doesn't go Their way. People who can take feedback and not take it personally. So when we do one on one interviews for attitude, we're not looking for what are they saying? Correct. We're looking for what red flags are they saying that could show them that they don't have the attitude we want. And we'll challenge them a little bit. We'll challenge them on their skills, on their background. We'll put them in some uncomfortable situations to see how they handle it. I think we've all worked with someone that just can't handle every situation professionally. And that stuff comes out when you focus your interview on skill. I'm sorry, on attitude. And for communication, we have 15 pages of communication, best practices that they have to memorize and get tested on.

Oh, wow.

And it's stuff like responding within a business day, how to handle personal issues, how to hit due dates, all that stuff. And we hold them accountable that on our platform and we're pretty quick to remove them if they're running into issues on any of those three things.

Got it. Okay. That's awesome. So I guess my last question, you know, before I'll kind of open it up to you. If there's anything else that we haven't covered that you want, I think would be valuable for people to know. But I think a lot of people struggle when they're hiring someone to do something that they either don't know very much about or they've kind of like reached the peak of their skill and they need to hire someone that's actually better than them at something. So how do you handle that situation or how do you advise people to handle that situation?

Yeah, I mean, first of all, you got to hire the expert level. You're gonna struggle unless you get super lucky on the basic or the mid level. You gotta hire that expert. And it is a skill hiring people that are smarter than what you're doing. And you don't want to have to spend six months taking a Facebook ad course to be able to hire someone for Facebook ads. So a lot of times it comes into research and references and giving people small test projects, breaking stuff down. Don't hire someone to build your Shopify page. 15 pages. Hire them to do one page and then give feedback and then have a second page and go from there. And it's also about building that relationship and trust factor. And that's where the attitude and the communication becomes even more important. Because when you hire people with great attitude and great communication skills, they tend to be more honest about what they can and cannot do. On the skill level, which is what you really need when you can't vet the skill at the same level that you can vet other skills.

Got it. Okay, cool. Well, Nathan, this has been super valuable, and I think everyone who's listening will, if they haven't used your platform already, I think they would definitely benefit from going to check it out next time they have to outsource something. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you think might be valuable for everyone to know?

So make sure you're diversifying as you hire. I tell a story and I'll tell a short version where I hired a manager of the day and I taught him how to do everything for six months. I had one supplier and I decided to only work with them, no other suppliers. And I went on vacation. And on the first day of my vacation, my manager quit and the supplier dropped me. So.

Yeah, so all my eggs in one basket right there just came back to hurt me and I had to start all over again. But I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs, they fall into that trap because hiring is hard. So you make some bad hires and you finally find someone you like. So what do you do? You load them up with everything. And short term it might be great, but long term, it makes your business incredibly risky and it can set you back months. So make sure you're diversifying as you're hiring.

Okay, cool. Well, thank you, Nathan. This has been great. Really appreciate the time.

Yeah, appreciate you having me on. Check out freeup.com with 3es. Mention this podcast for a free $25 credit to try us out.

Okay, great.

Hey, brand builders. We hope you enjoyed this podcast by capitalism.com. check out our website for upcoming events and additional content about building businesses, building brands, and investing. My name is Max Furwick and my mission in life is to transform businesses into brands. If you have any feedback about the show, any guests you want to see, case studies covered, topics explored, or frankly, just any questions about branding in general, just shoot me an email@maxmaxrandbuilderstrategy.com again, that's maxrandbuilderstrategy.com and I'd love to hear from you. One quick note, if you could subscribe to the podcast or even leave a us a review on itunes. These things really do make a big difference in helping us book amazing guests and then also helping people just like you find the podcast. So thanks and we'll see you next time.

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