How AJ Patel Sold His Business for Over $600 Million

I consider it a personal honor. Point of pride, a privilege to bring this man to the stage. We've been friends for six or seven years now. We came up the ranks together, and he's just broken record after record, and he's just here hanging out, and he has no reason to be here other than the fact that he cares, other than the fact that he enjoys investing.

In all of you.

So please welcome to the stage AJ Patel.

Hi, buddy.

Thank you for being here. Good to see you. So it's kind of difficult not to start by acknowledging the fact that you just had a major milestone. Two weeks ago, you sold Zesty $610 million.

Clap that up.

Really quickly. Just tell me how you're feeling. Two weeks later.

Same. You know, I mean, I've had the realization that this is going to happen probably for two years. Not this big, but.

It felt good when it happened. Like, felt great when it happened. Now it's just like, what's next kind of thing.

Yeah.

So it's good, though.

So is there disappointment on the other side of that? Like, expecting it? Did you expect it to be different?

No, because I've had other exits, and there was a point when I expected money to make me feel different, and it didn't. And, you know, so it's like, it's a journey that you just realize it's meant to happen and you just feel. You feel good about it. But it's not like I'm at a point in my life where I don't have ebbs and flows and emotions. So kind of more, you know, here.

Yeah. Just like Sam was saying yesterday, his all of his work is just to stay in, like, an emotional, neutral place, because otherwise his erratic emotions are going to take him on track. Off track. On track, off track.

Yeah, I've been there.

You've been there?

Yeah.

So we'll come back to this exit, but I wanted to go back to the beginning of your journey, because.

It feels like yesterday that you were just starting. Right. Like, it feels so recent. It was. You had a really rapid progression in your journey, and there had to be moments along the way that changed something. So would you kind of take us back to the beginning?

Sure. So I'll go all the way back in the beginning. I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur since I was a kid. My parents, entrepreneurs for 30 years and going. And high school is kind of when I started my hustling, you know, sold movies, started a web hosting company for a couple of years where I was making $5,000 a day and had people from India employed around the clock. But that's when I learned my first lesson, which is not to take money out of the business to buy stupid shit like clothes or cars. Served me well though. And then college, same thing. Continued on Internet marketing. You know, I would always try to find ways to make money because it was kind of my DNA. So senior year of college I stumbled on, I was playing.

Facebook Zynga's Texas Olimap in an internship since I hate jobs and.

I lost the chips that they give you. And then I was like, well that was fun. Let me go figure out a way to play this again. So I bought about a quarter million worth of chips for five bucks. I was like, okay, if I want this, there must be other people that want it. So I go on ebay and check and it's like 1 million chips being sold for 37 bucks. Zynga selling it for a hundred dollars, give or take. So I messaged everyone on the leaderboard on the app and say, hey, you want to sell your chips, I'll buy it. And that's how I got started. So one guy sold me 100 million for thousand bucks and one on eBay sold that for 37 a piece. Anyways, long story short.

So you're arbitraging fake poker chips.

Exactly. Huge market, huge market.

This is like crypto before crypto.

Yeah, I have my roommates working around the clock. When I started my website I was like number one for Facebook poker chips. And we're making, I was making three to five thousand dollars a day, you know, so it was a good time in senior year. Right.

And then graduated in 09. I sold that because I figured Zynga was going to come after people and they did. So I got rid of that and in 2009 I graduated degree in finance, told my parents, hey, I'm going to figure something out. I don't know what it is but you know, I've had these one hit wonders for 10 years and so let me go try my hand with the six figures that I had in the bank account. So I tried everything really. Ship businesses like hookah bar to staffing agency with a scammer. So I left that.

The real estate and a Facebook game as well. And two years later I was broke, depressed.

And how old are you at this point?

22, 23.

Okay, so like early to mid-20s. And you're just like idea after idea after. Exactly, after idea. And, and that was kind of a theme that came up yesterday is like every person who has eventually broken out. Had, like, lots of swings at the bat. Yep. And I just wanted to capture that because sometimes we get romantic, that this idea needs to be the idea. Whereas sometimes, like, you need to get some failures out of the way before you hit pay dirt. And it's easy to look at what you've done. Like, we have this rule.

Matt and I used to joke, you.

Say, like, rule number one, don't bet against aj. I remember a year or so ago, Matt called me. I was in the Austin airport going somewhere, and he's like, AJ's doing this thing where he's buying GameStop stock. Do you know anything about this? I was like, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. And then we're like, well, don't bet against aj. What does he know that we don't?

It's just like. And I tell you that because it's important to note that you didn't just, like, come out of the womb knowing things. You had this section of your life in which you were trying this, flipping this.

Oh, yeah.

This agency doing this thing, and ultimately leading you to something that started, did well, and continued to grow. So forgive me for interrupting.

No, you're fine. Yeah. I mean, especially in Indian culture. Right. Like, when I was struggling, like, people shit on you and you get a reality check of, you know.

You have to kind of believe in yourself even when everyone else doesn't. So for me, when I got a job in corporate America in 20, I don't know, 12, so I was there for two years, I'd have to remind myself that, you know, I was 1% in high school and I was the 1% in college, and I can do it again. And that alternative being in corporate America was never an option. Right. I just wouldn't let my mind get there. And I think. I think your mind plays such an important role. And, you know, now knowing some of the materials, like manifestation and stuff like that, like, I didn't know about it, but that's essentially what happened. Right. And so why did you go?

Why did you join corporate America when you had all these side hustles?

Because I was broke. I lost. I lost it all. And depressed.

You're broke, so.

And I had to tell my parents, I'm doing something in my life. What?

I see. So what you were. You had some things that were producing significant revenue. You also sold a couple of those things. What happened that took you from, you know, you had something going to being broke and depressed. What changed there?

Well, the Facebook chips thing that was producing income. I had to get rid of it before they started suing people, thank God. And from there, so I only had about 150, 200,000 saved up. And I just started a bunch of dumb shit. And I was saying yes to everything because I didn't know. I didn't know how I was going to make money. I didn't know what was going to make me money. And so, you know, this guy I met at a poker bar, it's like, hey, I want to start a staffing agency. I'm like, that sounds like a cool idea. Let's go to Atlanta. And again, turns out he has a scammer. I'm like, fuck this, I'm out. So it's just like I was lost. I was super lost. But I was willing to try and continue to keep trying. And then also gave some money to my brother to open a liquor store.

So that.

Because my parents helped him. So that was the last of it. And I was like, well. And I was, I was not a good spender. I mean, not a good money manager. So probably had 15, $20,000 in credit card debt. So I had to do something.

Yeah. So you went from probably feeling like hot shit in college.

Oh, yeah. After making $35,000, my first job, I was like, fuck. I used to make that in like few days.

35. Is that.

You said a year? 35,000 a year.

You took a $35,000 a year job?

Yep. Good old days.

What was the job?

I was a back office accountant. I was great at interviewing. I was a horrible employee.

Yeah.

Really bad. I still don't remember what the fuck I did.

And you were in that for two years.

So that job. Year and a half. And then I became. Went to an agency for. As a project manager again. I didn't know jack shit about what I was doing. I would just, you know, fuck around with the clients, fudge the timeline and say, I'm doing these things. And I was a pretty bad project manager.

I didn't realize that part of the story because I didn't realize that you, you took an entry level job.

Yeah.

Right. And then you became project manager one step up. And I, when you were in corporate America, I assumed that it was kind of a fancy job.

No.

So I actually didn't know that part of the story. Yeah. But the whole time you're sitting there thinking, like, I've done it once, I'll do it again. Don't know how this is going to go. This is temporary.

Exactly. Yep. And that's, that's what kept me going. And 13, stumble on, on the Amazon thing, put $3,000 on my credit cards. Launched the first product two weeks later. It was doing thousand dollars a day. So after like 10 years of on and off failure, I knew this was a, you know, pattern recognition. You know, put 40,000 on my credit cards, went all in, set a goal for a million a month within 12 months. And every day I'd ask myself questions what I'm doing today going towards that goal and if not, cut it out. Top line revenue, right. Thirteen months later, hit it from the free cash flow of that company. I started four other brands around this time. I'm opportunistic, right. I have no passion for solving world peace here. It's just like these categories are open. I'm gonna go, I know this lever. I'm gonna pull it, I'm gonna pull it till it stops working.

And I remember that time like you were.

You were winning in a lot of spaces, but you were not.

You were stretched like you were really rolling it all back in. I remember you were living very modestly and you were just plowing. You had all your chips.

Yeah. I mean, I didn't pay myself for a year. Again, going back to a lesson I learned. I never took out money. Right.

And so did that. But then after, after the million a month and the skincare brand, I'm like, I want to do something that kind of outlives me, you know, I don't want to have a one hit wonder. I've done that for so long. And so didn't know what a CEO was, didn't know how to build teams. Hired a CEO for the skincare brand. Smooth talker, great communicator. And I bought his bullshit, you know, and he said, we're gonna get 200 million. And then year, for a year from 2015-16, I kind of checked out. I'm like, I hired a CEO, I gotta let him do his job. Clearly he knows better than I do. And when I put my head up, I realized that we were talking about getting 200 million, but we never talked about the how. And we were doing the same shit that I had done. So it's like, all right, I got to step in. He's the wrong person. You know, I fell for it. It's okay. Fired him.

And I want to emphasize here, that was a hard time, right? It was that, that was, I was.

Breaking down kind of time. I was dying kind of time.

Yeah, yeah, I remember because I knew this person and and there was a. There was obviously a relationship that you guys had built up, and that's a hard band aid to pull off.

You mean firing him?

Yeah.

Oh, that was easy.

Well, because I look at it as like business is a living organism and I'm willing to fire myself for the business. I will have no. I have no emotional attachment if someone doesn't serve the business. So with him, I mean, it was a little hard because again, he's a manipulator, so. And I'm naive at this time. So we had. It was a rough two to three months to get him out. Yeah, but getting him out was the best decision, but also the toughest thing for my personal life because I had to fire half the people. I don't know jack shit about accounting. I learned accounting by fire. I learned the business by fire. Essentially at this point I go from being a horrible leader the first, first three years, and I'm growing kind of at this point. This is like the good inflection point of my life where I'm like continuing to grow significantly from a personal standpoint, leadership standpoint, but also I'm like mentally fucked for the next year because scarcity mindset kicked in. You know, when a business, that was my business and when it declined by more than 50% and I'm now in it to turn it around, I'm like, what if I don't have anything after this? You know, what if I lose it all? Did I do all of this for nothing? All of these 13, 14 years, am I going to go back to corporate America? So all of these irrational fears kind of kick in.

And at the same time, some of my other brands are taking off so. Well, I can't sell. I can't sell the skincare company on a decline. So I'm like, fuck it, I'm going to take chips off the table and get security, right? And so I got on this sprint of trying to sell some of my companies, and one of them was I took. I took roughly. I mean, at the end, I owned about 40% when we sold Zesty four weeks ago, but I took 56, about 60% off the table when it was doing 25 million run rate. Literally the next day. I knew I made a mistake. I was like, that's a quarter billion dollar brand. I fucking knew it.

So it's like I couldn't see the forest from the trees during that phase of my life. And it was tough. It was tough. I had emotional breakdowns often. I was stressed out like crazy. And so, you know, I stayed involved in Zesty for about a year or so.

And, aj, what would you have done differently now in that time.

I wouldn't know how to control my emotions and my. I would be more sane because, you know, I wouldn't have at that time. You've got to keep your irrational fears in check. Right. That's what I would have done differently because that's all it was. I mean, there's people I've talked to, you know, within our circles, like, and they're about to sell their business because they think they're about to lose it. I'm like, don't do it. You're not in the right mindset, and you're going to regret this later. They don't listen. They do it. And they come back and say, yeah, I shouldn't have done that. It's okay. You got to make your own mistakes.

Yeah, yeah. There's, like, when you make decisions from the scarce place.

Yeah.

You end up getting scarcity.

Exactly.

But if you are in an abundant place, you end up making the decisions and doing the things that bring more of that. And it sounds like you were in a place where you were so afraid that the kingdom was about to crumble, that you did things that were, you know, at least suboptimal.

Yeah.

Right.

To say the least.

So.

So you took some chips off the table to try and.

Yeah.

Get a foundation.

And then I felt like shit as soon as I got the money because I realized it was a mistake. But what I'm glad I did because everything kind of in my mind now happens for a reason, because.

I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it again. That, you know, I didn't. I didn't game a system that wasn't at the right place, the right time. I a little bit played into it. And so that was a catalyst for me trying to look for another opportunity, which created High Key, which, again, is kind of similar business I'm really proud of.

And kind of gives me conviction that, you know, I can do it again and again and again.

And is it fair to say that High Key has had the fastest growth trajectory of all the other brands.

For.

The first three years?

Yes. Yeah.

And that's how old we are.

Yeah.

Okay.

So. Yes. How many of you are familiar with High Key snacks, by the way?

Yeah.

Yeah. I walk into Costco and see the display and I'm like, yes, AJ did it.

Right.

So. And that was what was different about that brand than the others, because that wasn't like, you didn't look at the Amazon data and decide that was a play. And you had done that with Zesty, you had done that with Insta, but you didn't do that with, with high key. So what was different in your approach there?

Well, I saw the macro trends, Google, Amazon too. But I saw, I saw the thes. My thesis was what Zesty taught me was great product market fit matters. If you want to create something huge, product market fit matters, right? So something unique. Do you have a reason to exist? If not, don't do it right. And so high key. When I looked around, it's like, I have a, I have a sweet tooth. I love sweet shit. And I love quest bars. I love my cookies. And so when I was looking for, you know, something like that, I saw a couple of, couple of competitors where their product genuinely sucked. And I was like, okay, if I can make a good product, a great product, then I can, I can beat this market. So I didn't know jack shit about food and beverage. I cold called 200 people and met someone that was running a co main facility that had an act for innovation. I'm like, hey John, this is what I can do. This is my background. Jump ship and convince him to join me. And I was working with a consultant for.

Six months, had a broken moldy recipe, large one. And I told him about it. Within two weeks he gave me the mini cookies that we launched with. And I was like, all right. And then when we launched on online on Amazon was the first and D2C within two weeks we beat Oreos and Chips Ahoy. And that was enough proof that I needed to go all in from kind of what. Again, my mindset is like learning from Zesty. If you got something, go all in. So put fuel to the fire. Built out the team. Six months later, we're nationwide in target target. We're beating velocities by 6x category average. And then from there, from there we just started running the tables, right? So Whole Foods, Kroger, Costco, everywhere. So now it's just kind of running the tables a little bit and getting focused around the brand and all the stuff.

Did you raise money for that project?

Five and a half million. My money first. Okay, funny story about that. I was actually made a dumbest mistake. So John was part of the co man facility and I thought, you know, if we could get to scale, maybe vertical integration wouldn't be a bad thing. And so on a handshake because that co man was losing money and he was willing to give us the keys if we just Took over and took over the burn rate. So on a handshake, I gave him a million dollars. Hey, let's cover the burn rate. We'll launch it and we'll turn that. We'll make a profit here. We'll make a profit here. Holy. Let me tell you, contract manufacturing, never get into that. We're losing two. I was losing $250,000 a month, my capital. And it's like, for three, four months, I was like, John, calling John. I'm like, john, I can't do this. I'm so like, you know, million is still a million.

And I'm like the co man business. Let's get into the branded business. Give him back the keys. I can't do this.

So, yeah, I almost thought we were not going to have a business, but it took off, thankfully.

I asked you about raising money for High Key because I thought you did a raise.

I did. So Covid hit.

I raised.

A few million dollars at a much higher valuation.

Just because I wanted someone strategic on the cap table.

It was for strategic reasons.

Yeah, a little bit. And a little bit of capital because I had also blown some of my earlier liquidity and made some mistakes.

Okay.

And so. But he was strategic in a sense. But my caveat was, I want no strings attached investment, no board seats, nothing.

You raised on your terms.

My terms. Right. Because I had the money and I could do it. I don't need your capital.

Yeah. I asked that because I'm curious about the difference in your approaches of bootstrapping. You know, from 2013 to 2016, when you're just pouring everything in versus having some dry powder, your own or somebody else's, what the difference in the approach was for those businesses or if they were mostly the same, how would you comment on that?

I mean, some categories are just going to require more capital. Right. So food, I mean, that was. We were in an investment period.

Margins in food is lower. So that was out of kind of necessity to put fuel to the fire, so to speak.

Get customers.

Exactly. Scale, build out the team. I mean, we went from four people to within 18 months, had a team of 60. My payroll is pretty huge on that team. And that was done intentionally because I want to build. Not for today. I want to build for the future. You know, I want to get the scalability and the talent as opposed to hiring in the. In the rear, so to speak.

Right.

And that's because I've done that, too. Built a lean team, done it slow. It takes years. I'm more excited about, like, how do we scale? But not at the expense of not having a good business model. It has to turn profit or you don't have a business model, in my opinion.

Yeah. Now when.

You were hiring that CEO and building that team, you were doing it like, figuring it out. Right? Like, I remember when you had one person who was helping you with systems, was basically your operations manager, and then you ended up hiring the CEO at Insta, and you're like, we're learning how to build infrastructure. Now when you run high key, you're not scrambling as much anymore. You go from a few people to 60 people in a short window of time. What have you learned about building teams that you didn't know when you got into this game or that when you were building the team the first time?

That's a great question.

Early on, I didn't know jack shit. So I think, I think experience has been my biggest. Our, you know, the biggest lesson, because we've hired now across all the companies, probably three to 500 people.

Early on, you make the dumbest mistakes. Like you prioritize skill over cultural fit. You know, I. And so now say it again. You prioritize, like, skills or cultural fit. Right. Like, I used to do that.

And you say that's a mistake now.

Yeah, 100%.

Tell me. Right?

I e. Like, I used to have someone on the skincare company.

Really negative person and really like, he, you know, very political about the way he communicated and just not a good cultural fit. Made everyone feel like shit. I kept him on because he delivered value.

He had the skills.

Exactly. Now as I look at it, you have to be a good person, good cultural fit, and bring skills to the table. Right.

Are they in that order?

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, yeah, because if you're not a good person, then, you know, I got you something. So cultural, they have to align with our values a lot more than before. And I think now that we've, you know, I have my HR person that's been with me for six years, so she's. She's really good at filtering from the top and only letting the decent people come to the hiring managers. And even then we go through like three interviews to make sure we all agree.

Yeah. So the lesson there was hiring for culture over skills rather than prioritizing skills.

100%.

That's interesting. What else have you learned about team building that has allowed you to have infrastructure that doesn't collapse?

You've got to like. So for me, I know my strengths and weaknesses really well, and so I will mask my weaknesses with great Leaders.

That have their core competency and strengths. Right. This is my partner, CEO of Haiki. Great, loves managing people. An inspirational leader, Very honest. And we can have, we can disagree and commit, but we can call each other out in a very respectful way. And he knows retail. I don't want to know retail. I don't care about retail. You know retail. You do retail. So it's kind of like just knowing for me at least the strengths and weakness and masking those weaknesses. And it's worked really well for me. My leadership style is unique. I am not Kumbaya. I'm not going to give you positive reinforcement. So these people that I have that I work closely with don't need that. But they know me and I invest in them and I take care of them in the ways that they're motivated by and I'll build personal relationship with them and likewise, you know, they take it down.

So the interesting thing that you're commenting on there is that you hire and focus on leaders.

Yeah.

Right. Like you are not hiring for somebody deep on the org chart at this point. You're hiring for leaders.

Yeah. And then they do their job.

I want to, I'm asking this selfishly because this is a skill that I want to learn. So when did that switch for you? Because the first time you did didn't go how you wanted it to and you ended up coming in and taking over. But you stepped to the plate again and you did it again. So what did you do differently after making this mistake that you regretted?

I'm trying to think.

You know what I'm asking. Because you're commenting on hiring leaders, but.

The first time you did it, I didn't have leaders. I didn't have leaders in that company. Right. Like I had to coddle a lot of people. I can't coddle people. I know that's not my skill set.

I think it's just like there are a couple of people that I worked with for years which I really admired our working relationship. And it's just kind of like I learned, I learned what works for me and it's different for everyone. Right. What works for me is I don't want to manage a team. I don't like the day to day meetings that much. And so it's like if I can trust you to do your job. And chemistry matters. So for me with a CEO, chemistry matters a lot because without that you're not going to have a good fit. And now for me to trust him to manage say the cmo, because I don't want to deal with that shit. I'll manage E commerce kind of departments here. Supply chain will kind of divide and conquer. So it's just. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the answer. It's just like it's happened organically for me where I've realized this is what works for me and this is the type of culture that we want to build based on the values we've created.

Well, what I'm processing as you're saying that is that that first CEO that you hired provided a lot of contrast for what you actually wanted in a leader. Yeah. At that time you hired somebody who came with CEO credentials that you trusted. And it didn't go well, but it gave you clarity for what you actually needed.

In your next hires. And leaders, how do you find those leaders at this point?

4 sprans is great for C levels. What's that? Force Brands.

Force Brands, yeah.

So it's a CPG recruiting firm. Okay, so I'll go to them. Or basically the C levels is definitely recruiting firms and they are not in Orlando. So you know, I'm open to remote. And so we stole, you know, our CEO as an example came from Ancient Nutrition. Our CEO came from.

He was CEO of Australasia General Mills. He, you know, so a CMO came from four Sigmatic. So basically kind of poaching talent from other places.

Yeah. And that sounds expensive. So how do you think about compensating leaders?

Market rate?

Market rate?

Yeah. I mean, I don't want to be specific because these are my people.

Yeah, sure, I understand. But what I'm asking is like there's sometimes we hear stories about people who come from a big company who have a great resume that want a very healthy salary and yet their skill set doesn't match that of somebody who's just young and scrappy.

Yep.

Right. And when you're in startup mode and you have like a seven figure business, the idea of going and finding somebody who's run that just seem, just seems risky when you could hire somebody that's young and scrappy. So I want to know from you, like what is the difference in those two approaches?

I think you've got to be on.

A good opportunity. You have to be honest with yourself what kind of opportunity you're on. Like for me this was an opportunity worth going all in on. And now when you describe a seven figure opportunity as an example, I'm just saying if you don't have a good product market fit, that's not Going to scale Omnichannel. I don't know if I'd hire the team I've hired.

Yes. Got it.

Right. Like I'd be okay with the project manager and like hustling and lean and then if something works out and you see an opportunity in a white space in retail, then maybe, maybe you hired. Right. But otherwise I wouldn't go all in.

That makes a lot of sense. So the difference there is with HighKey, you know, this is a multi nine figure opportunity. Yep. So you're hiring for multi nine figures.

Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. And with another brand that you think may top out at $10 million, you're building a $10 million team. Yep. Right. I'm curious about. I wonder if the expectation creates that. Like in your mind, you are so convinced that high key is a multi nine figure opportunity. You have made that happen. Right. You saw product market fit. Plenty of people could have seen market, product, product market fit and only built a $10 million business. Yep. And you did more that you've done more than that.

Yeah.

Right. So I'm curious how much of your approach has affected that. I'm just wondering that out loud. There's something I've been wanting to ask you. Since we texted about it, I've been dying to ask you this question. And it was that you told me that you've reached a point in your life in which you are happier and clearer and feel more purposeful than you ever have. And these are words I had never heard you say. Right. There's a long journey to getting there and I really would like for you to unpack what has flipped there. And it would be easy to say, well, of course you're breaking records. Well, of course you're leading in the space, but I've seen more of the internal journey and know that it you didn't have the same peace, satisfaction and joy that you've arrived at now. So what changed?

Chad, my coach, was the biggest catalyst of my life, I would say from. I had him from 2017 to 2021. And I think personal growth unlocks everything in life. And so for me, going through that tough time of 2016, 17, 18, I was beating myself up for fuck. I exited too early. I could have done this myself and all of these things as opposed to now. It's just like that happened for a reason. And without that, I wouldn't have this company. I wouldn't have the conviction to start other companies. And the experience I have now is so vastly different and great in its own way. And it's just been working on myself.

Would you say that again? Because you said that quickly, that you said. I forget your exact words, but it worked out, and it's been great in just a different way.

Explain what you mean by that.

Like, so as an example, if I hadn't sold Zesty, and I would have sold Zesty, like, took chips off the table and would have sold it, you know, four weeks ago, that's probably the only thing I would have done. I would have been happy. I would have been really happy with it, too. But I'm also really happy with the fact that not only was I able to participate. So see that. See that journey through, but I got to do it again with this other company. And by the way, this new. You know, I launched another brand, which I failed. I'm going to talk. I'll talk about that in a second. I'm grateful for that, too, because I'm learning something. So I love. I look at. I look at failures, I look at opportunities. I look at what happens in life as, like, growth now, right? Like, and if I. If I don't look back 12 months before in my, like, let's say last year, I want to. I want to tell myself that guy was an idiot because then I'm growing, right? And so you want to be able.

To look back and say, that guy was 100. Yeah, 100.

So now I. I just. I understand people. I want to be a good human being. Chad and I just ended our coaching, I don't know, three, four months ago. It's like. Because, like, Chad, I don't have any problems. I don't need to talk about anything. We're good, you know, because, like, I know if I have issues, I can work through them. I went to Jojo Spencer's meditation retreat. That was great, too, you know, I just. I just feel good and peace with myself and money. All of this success is just a byproduct of doing shit I love. I love creating, I love building teams, and I love doing it again. And if I fail along the way, fuck it, I'll do it again.

I am. I am. I just had a big braingasm.

Because what you're essentially saying is, like, for a while, for years, you had the mental chatter of beating yourself up.

Imposter syndrome. It's like, I don't fucking belong. I had it all.

And now what you have realized is that everything that happened has led you to here. And here is great, just in a different way than if you had made different decisions.

Exactly.

One of that being had you not taken chips off the table with Zesty, had you kept all of that money yourself, you may not have ever run into the point where you had enough negative mental chatter to go work on it, to arrive at a place of peace and internal joy. Both are great journeys. Like lots and lots and lots of money. Or still lots and lots of money and happy. Right. Like they're both great and you never know what the other path would have led to. And I know that I play this game of like, should have done this differently, could have done, should have pursued that opportunity harder. Shouldn't have had that really like shouldn't have, shouldn't have X, Y and Z. But if you could be happy with now, then everything just led as being context for getting to this point. Plays. Yeah, you, you mentioned going to Joe Dispenza. What was that experience like?

I mean there are few, few people that have done it here. I know, Incredible. I mean it's just.

It'S just the energy, the whole thing. Right. Like I've been into mindfulness for a long time, but man, I felt fucking great and I'm chasing that high again. So I'm going end of next, end of next month going again for his advanced thing and then probably going to go to December and this week long again. So I'm just going to continue to chase it. What is that high clarity and like detachment from, from everything in a sense makes you a good person. I just want to grow. Right.

So do you get that in your day to day life outside of those peak experiences?

I do. So I wake up, meditate an hour every day, usually 30 minutes at night. So it's kind of, you know, kind of trying to stick to it.

Yeah. How is your life different after prioritizing the own internal experience?

Chaotic. Really fucking chaotic.

Because life before beforehand.

No, not before Joe. But I'm just thinking like before I started working on myself. Right. Just because Chad, Chad. Like the self growth I had with them was also significant. It would just be like I'd let life run me. In essence, I'm reacting to life. Whereas now like it's almost slowed down and you know, you, you get to.

Dictate, which is hilarious because your life has sped up so much in the last year and a half.

Right.

That's hilariously ironic.

That's a byproduct.

Is it? I think at least tell me why.

Work wise as an example? Because I believe that's what you're referencing.

Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, just career wise.

Yeah. I don't do much I don't do much. I have great teams and.

I try to focus on just creating stuff. So right now I'm working on more than Ike as an example because I've got a team, built up a venture studio working on that, creating an incubation ground where I would invest, buy back entrepreneurs. So it's fun. But it's like all of the seeds that I put in in the early days are now sprouting. So it seems like things have sped up, but things are for me at least the same in a way.

Do you think that as a result of pursuing that internal clarity and getting calm, that calm inside, that it allowed you to detach enough to be able to play plant those seeds that were long term?

Maybe now?

Yeah.

Back then it was just like there was a thing of right place, right time. I'm not going to vote for that. Right, sure.

But I mean it seems like since you've prioritized that you make much longer more strategic decisions which may be slower in the very short term but sprout and create thin, faster compounding results. When you say you don't do much, I believe you. Right. And I think you have prioritized that internal experience which allows you to kind of be on the, be the conductor of your life rather than the actor in your life. And I've experienced times where when I'm letting life dictate me, I'm just in the chaos and I'm making more of it. And I think you going on this journey has allowed you to kind of pull yourself out of that and conduct more of it.

Yeah, for sure.

Is that my project?

I can make long, I make decisions that are more long term focused now than you know, say the 16 where it's like fuck, everything's, I'm going to lose everything and I'm going to make short term, short, short sighted decisions. So for sure, like high key, same thing, long sided decisions.

Even being on the, on the, on the board, you know, over the last year or so on Zesty, it's like got to see us making good, rational long term decisions. It's like, you know, you soak that in.

Yeah, that's beautiful. So let's talk about Zesty because you had this exit, was it two weeks ago that it finalized?

Three, four. I haven't even gotten my check yet.

Time is a human construct.

I think you exited operations of that when you partnered with the group.

I was there about a year or so and then when we brought in the, I was still involved and then when we brought in the CEO, I transitioned. I was all in on the board, but then really took a board role.

What did you see happen? Because I think this was your first brand that crossed nine figures. So what did you see happen in that ramp up period between when you were at the helm and then the group coming in and helping to scale it? What did you see from the sidelines?

Trying to figure out how to answer this.

The seeds that we created 2017.

Basically, you know, I was also in the VMs category for humans and I saw branded ingredients were big, then brought that into the pet supplement space and everything we did, we were the first allergy multi. No one was doing it and we innovated in a very clinically science based and a fun based way. That brand blew up right then and there and everyone could have checked out. That brand had such strong tailwinds that it was kind of meant to be in a sense. We went from 3 to 25 to 55 and then retail came in and then like two years later, 100 plus.

I've never seen, I hope to be part of something like that again because it was like the perfect lightning in a bottle with great product market fit. You know, when we exited number one, number one on every platform we were on. And so what the private equity group did that I probably wouldn't have done is when we brought in the CEO, they pushed for retail, which was a great fucking thing. So you know, we proved it out at Target and petsmart and that was one of the bigger because strategics want retail proved out. And so, you know, I created the online moat. But they had the wherewithal and the patience to create.

The retail side of things. Right. Which I may not have done given this was if I had kept it. And I'm so thankful that this happened because I probably would have sold for 100, 150. Right? Taking chips off the table wouldn't have done retail because like, like Moyes, you know, when, when your net worth is tied significantly, you want chips off the table. Of course, right. So having seen that gave me conviction that anything's possible, having been part of that journey. Right. It's all about mindset and how big you can create a company, you know, because like when I took chips off the table, our peers are exiting for 10, 20, $30 million. Like well, that's fucking pinnacle of success, right?

Yeah.

And then when I saw that movie, I'm like, well, anything's possible. And so high key. My aspirational I want to create the next.

When you saw your peers exiting for 10, 15, $20 million. That made you say, oh, anything is possible.

No, no, no, no. That made me say I need to exit. Because that was a pinnacle of success at that point. But now seeing the Zesty movie, I'm like, anything is possible. Can I create a billion dollar company? Yes.

Got it. So it gave you different context, like a different reference point for what was actually possible for you. And in this space and in this industry.

Yeah, it's all mindset, you know, like we can all, anyone in this room can create a billion dollar brand.

Okay, you keep saying that. It's all mindset. Could you break that down into something that is less, less esoteric?

Oh man.

It's like we, we, we do that all the time. It's all mindset. It's all mindset. Well, it's just like AJ actually, it's.

Just like if you don't believe, if you don't believe you can do it, you're not going to do it. Right. If you don't believe, you can. If you believe that the limit. So when, when our peers are exiting for say 20 million on average, that that's the height of what I can achieve. Right. But if you set your mindset to be a little bit higher. No, I can create $100 million brands. You might act differently.

Right.

You might do things differently. You might look at opportunities differently. Like when I start companies now, if it doesn't have a hundred million or more potential, I won't even look at it from a product market fit. So, you know, like my filters are very aggressive right now. You know what I mean? So again, that's what I mean. But you have to believe that you can do it to do it. Because if you don't believe it, it's not going to happen.

And I think it's important to note here, you didn't always believe that it was possible. And that's okay. Like you had some base hits and some strikeouts and a couple, you know, solo home runs.

Yeah.

Before you had Zesty and before you had high key like you, you had to work yourself into believing that this was possible. And now it is. You've seen it, you've proven it to yourself. So now there's total confidence in going into that. And so $10 million projects don't interest you anymore. $50 million projects don't interest you anymore. But that was not always the case.

Of course not.

Right. Do you think, like.

Do you think it is possible to skip those steps, say that differently? Do you think now that all of all your expectations are this is going to be a nine figure brand. Do you think that it would have been possible to collapse that timeline, how long it took you to get to that expectation?

Not unless I got lucky the first time and I saw the movie the first time.

I see.

I think these are all good experiences that, I mean, even hard, like the lessons I've learned over this past seven or eight years, from hiring to.

The retail. I don't know, it's just I don't know if I would have done differently, but I guess it's like maybe it would have played out differently if I succeeded early on.

Maybe, but it doesn't matter.

Exactly.

Well, A.J.

It'S been a joy and a privilege to be part of your journey and to watch your journey and to see it at different stages. So you should feel very proud and we are all very proud. Thank you for blazing the trail in this industry and for sharing this. Give it up for AJ For Kelly.

All right.

If you found value in this podcast and you're ready to go Deeper, here are three resources where we can help you. One, you can grab my book 12 months to 1 million on Audible or Amazon. It has over a thousand reviews and it's the playbook to building a seven figure business. Second, you can join our community of entrepreneurs who are following a plan to build a 1% net worth by building businesses and investing the profits you can get plugged in@capitalism.com 1. And third, if you're looking to go deeper and build a seven figure business that you can sell, you can work closely with us inside the capitalism incubator and you can get on the waiting list and find out what we do over@capitalism.com inc. That's capitalism.com incident.