How Andy Redmer Turned His Passion Into $4M In 2 Years

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Who said there's no money in video games? Andy Redmer, my guest today, built a business that makes $4 million a year selling really niche products to people who play a specific video game. If you think you need to be in a big market in order to make a million dollars a year selling stuff online, this podcast will show you how small communities can create really big profits if you create a product that resonates with that small group of people. If you have a group of people that you serve and you have a product that connects with them, you can build a multimillion dollar business, even if no one's ever heard of what you have to sell. In this podcast, Andy breaks down how he came up with a product idea that served his type of people, people who played one specific video game, and how he took that business using a few key marketing tricks to be able to get a business to multimillion dollars. And then he had an exit. And Andy has a story a lot like mine, where after he sold the business, he went on a soul searching journey and he ended up buying the business back. And you'll discover why after you hear this episode with Andy Redmer. So, Andy, why don't we start by you telling us what happened to your face?

Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. I got a bit scratched up on my longboard. I. I was riding out in my house. It was my first time riding out there and I live at the top of a hill and there's lots of hills in the area. And I just, I was just feeling spontaneous. I hadn't been on my longboard in like five years, so I just.

So you took a spontaneous tumble?

Yeah, yeah, I went, I went out there. The roads where I was. What happened was the roads were actually freshly paved and so I was like, oh, this will be really nice on a long board. But again, I hadn't been out in like a really long time, so I was just out there cruising, taking it easy for a bit and then heading back, you know, towards like the area I live in. Going down a hill and the freshly paved road, it was so much faster than I thought it was gonna be. And when I went to turn, like, you know, my whole board just shot out from under me. It was also like you're riding and normally, like on a long board, you know, yeah, it can get kind of sketchy, but you're not like that scared because, you know, you can always bail out. You just like jump off the board and kick it back and you're fine. But like, on this hill, there was Nowhere to bail. Like, it was just rocks on both sides. It was way too steep. It was.

So I break this ball with my face or my knees. And you chose your face?

Yeah, well, I. Yeah, I mean, there wasn't much of a choice, to be honest. It's like I have to slow down.

So you sell face bandages on Amazon now? That's your new business?

Yeah, that could be a new niche I look into.

So I sent this email to my list saying, are you a lurker? Because I have all of these people on my list who have followed my work for years, built multimillion dollar businesses, and I never hear from them ever. Like, they listen to the podcasts, they watch me on YouTube, and you reached out. But we had a relationship several years ago, but I. I didn't hear what had happened in the few years since we had last spoken. Although you come to Capcom and we catch up there. But when I met you, you were running this knives business, doing like 4 million bucks a year. Not really even knowing how it happened. You just kind of fell into this knives business. Why don't you tell the story about how that business came to be and how you took it to 4 million? Which is kind of where we met.

Yeah, for sure. So, yeah, I had been starting businesses for a while. Like, lots of failures, you know, like everybody when you first start and then what kind of.

What kind of businesses mostly.

So I like, the first main area I started making money online was with ebay, actually. So this was kind of like before Amazon. And I never. I never really got into Amazon, to be honest. It was like I was selling on ebay and I thought you had to be like a big company to sell on Amazon. I didn't realize you could just sell on there. Um, but I started with ebay and I was just like, buying and like, reselling stuff that was like, trending. So it'd be like some hats or socks or whatever. Whatever was popular. And it would last. You know, it'd be like fads that last for, like, short periods of time. And then. So I was really. I got really familiar with selling, like, physical product online and all that. And then.

As far as starting the knives, it was really.

What was. What was like the biggest cash cow thing that you flipped on ebay?

Um, it was the phone cases. Those were like.

Phone cases?

Yeah, like, phone cases were by far the most popular. So like, selling like premium cases. Because at the time it was like there was like Otterbox and there was another one was called like, Life. Lifeproof. Were like the two most popular, but they were like a hundred, 200 bucks, you know, and so you could sell ones that were like the same quality for like 50 bucks.

They were like knockoffs of Otterboxing kinda.

I mean, there were, there were people selling knockoffs, of course.

Yeah, I don't mean knockoffs like, like fake Otterboxes, but you were selling like, it's the same thing, basically a white labeled version of Otterbox, but at a. At a lower price.

Exactly. And like ebay, like especially at the time, being such a new entrepreneur, you just think like, I gotta have a low price, you know, so you're like, so. So it's like, oh, I'll get like the same quality product and just sell it at a cheaper price. But that just becomes a race to the bottom, as you know.

Right.

So it never lasts.

So you were just flipping whatever you could, making cash.

Yes.

And you were how old?

Uh, this was in high school and college, so. Yeah.

That's cool.

Yeah, like 18 to 20ish.

Okay. So you learned, you learned you could wholesale things and then put them on ebay and flip them. And then what led to the knives?

Yeah, so the knives, which at the time, like, I actually knew nothing about knives. I didn't even know that there was like a. Like people were collect knives and all this stuff. It was actually because I play a ton of video games and Counter Strike's one of my favorite games. And that's the game I'm actually playing right now the most. I'm like addicted again, playing it all the time. But in that game there's been. They have really cool knives and it's like a big. It's a big part of the culture around skins. So like, Counter Strike was one of the first games to actually make skins really popular. And skins are just like the cosmetic finishes on the weapons and the knives, for example. And yeah, in the game the knives are just like really highly desired. They're really cool. Yeah. If you have a knife, people give you compliments or they talk trash or whatever, you know, like.

And these, these are just. These are knives in the game, right?

Yeah. So these are like digital knives in the game. And then there's like artwork on the like blade and handle and stuff.

Okay.

And that's what the skin is. The skin is like these different ones. So there's like ruby, sapphire, like different.

So there's this whole subculture of people who play Counter Strike that are complimenting each other over their digital knives. If this isn't an omen for what's going to happen in the future when we're all living in VR or complimenting each other. I like your digital pants.

Yeah.

So you, you, you say what if I sell these in the real world?

Exactly. Yeah. It was like these would be cool if they could be made, you know. And then it was actually the idea like I was on a camping trip with some friends and someone like stabbed a knife into the table and I was like that kind of looks like like a CS Go knife. And then, and then that's when it really clicked. I was like oh wait a minute, like what if that really was. So then I started looking into it. I actually came up with the idea like a year before I started the business because I just thought it was like, like not that great of an idea. I was like eh, whatever. And then it was, it was like a year later I had a friend that wanted to learn how I was making money on ebay. And I was like oh, I could like create a training course on this. So. And then like sell it or something. So then I was like, how about I teach you? We'll record the sessions and then I'll just like make a course out of it. And on the first session I realized I hadn't actually sourced product in a long time. Cause I was just kind of like repeat selling stuff. And so I was like, I was like hey man, actually we should do this like another time. I need to refresh. So I just took the, the knife idea I had and just used that as an example. And when I did that I found that there was actually one other seller, like a really small seller that was selling really crappy versions of the knives. Like had the idea kind of, it was clear they didn't play the game and they were just kind of like not. It wasn't really all there, but I saw like on ebay they were selling like crazy cuz you can see like the sold data. And I was like holy crap, like I could do this a million times better and like crush it. So that was where like everything just clicked. I was like sorry dude, I'm gonna come back to this training stuff later. I gotta build this business. And that was really where it all started.

So you went and had some prototypes made for knives that you thought would represent the game well, that you thought would be better than what you saw the competition, which was one dude doing. And you put them for sale. Do you sell them on ebay then?

It's funny cause I actually did list them on ebay like initially, but that really Wasn't the plan. The plan, you know, was very much to build a brand. So I created, you know, a brand that would resonate well with the audience and focused on influencer marketing and that was. And I was trying to drive everyone to my site.

These are influencers? Like counter strike influencers?

Yeah.

Okay. There is an entire subculture around this game.

Oh, yeah.

So these are. These are streamers who are playing the game.

Yeah.

And you send them knives. They get knives in the mail.

Exactly. Yeah. So it's a mix. Like a lot of streamers. Yeah. At the time, it was like this was 2015, so there wasn't much competition with a lot of these influencers. So it was really easy. We just send out the knives. I mean, people loved the product so much that it made it so easy for us. Yeah.

You went to $4 million in sales in what time frame?

It was three years. So the first year was like. Like something like 1.2, maybe. Second year was like maybe two and a half. And then third year was like four.

Yeah. Were you freaking out at this point?

Yeah, I mean, honestly, it was. I freaked out the most just when I saw the ebay sales, like at the very start, like, that was like. That was actually probably the highest high I had, was before I had even started anything because I was just like. I could see it all so clearly and I was so excited to do it all. Not just cause I knew it'd make money, but I also, like, I loved it. Like, I loved the game. I was so passionate about the product. Like, I was so ready to just build it. It's gonna be fun. Yeah. So.

So that 4 million in three years, you were taking sales on your own website. There's no Amazon. You had your ebay presence, but most of the traffic was going to your website.

Yeah. Ebay was like 1%. Okay.

And was most of the traffic that you were getting from the influencers and then just kind of the organic swell of this community?

A.

Tell me a little bit about that. Because that's. That's unique in our space. Right. We know it happens. But to get into what is really a niche market, I mean, in. In your world, it might be a. It might be a big world, but to me, I'm like, there's a whole subculture here.

Yeah.

So. So tell me a little about what it was like to get into that community and then have that spread so quickly.

Yeah, it was kind of crazy, honestly, because.

I actually like when I first. When I first got the inventory. So when we first got Samples, they looked like really good. And then when we got the initial knives and it was like 1200 knives and I was all in at the time. That was all the money I had between knives. And like. Yeah, it's just mainly inventory. Yeah. Because I bought those initial knives and then I ordered more shortly after. But um, when I first got the inventory actually there was like almost every unit was defective. So like the edges had. The paint wasn't covering the edges and it was like bleeding like wrong. It was, yeah. And I was like actually pretty stressed because I had already pre sold like all of them and. And so that's like those scenarios as an entrepreneur where you're like crap, like do I send these out or do I just refund everyone? And it can feel very like fork in the road, right?

Yeah.

But it's like good to take a step back and be like, okay, how do. Like there's pretty much always a way you can get the best of both worlds. Right. So like how do I do this? Well, I just, I didn't say anything and I just sent the product out and I figured, okay, if anyone complains, I'll just refund them. They can keep the knife. Like. And amazingly nobody complained. So like literally nobody. And I think it was cuz the product was just so new and so exciting that people were willing to accept the defect. Like on the edge.

You can't get away with that in year three. No, you might be able to get away with that in the early stages, but you just glossed over this idea that you pre sold 1200 units right out of the gate. What the heck happened there?

Yeah, that was just me sending the samples out to a few influencers and then yeah, I just had the listings up on the side. I said it'll ship in like three to four weeks. Cuz inventory was coming from overseas importing and yeah, it just sold out. So then I took that money. I was already like double all in. Cause I took that money already, put another inventory order and then finally got the original ones. I was like, oh crap.

So when you sent this out to influencers, were these pretty big influencers or is the community just that tightly gelled together that when one person discovers it, there's a snowball effect?

Yeah, it's, it is tight, but it's also fragmented. Um, it. We, we. It really wasn't that big of influencers at first. Um, but I did target influencers that had like quality audiences.

So small but responsive audiences. That's the game, man. If you can find those, the People who have, you know, a few thousand followers and, but, but people are engaged or they're. That person's on the rise in that community. That is, that is the holy grail right there. So you found a few of those. There's not a whole lot of people sponsoring video gamers, at least back then.

No.

Right.

Yeah, there wasn't.

And, and so you have a new product that goes to that market and you just have this website that says it'll ship in four weeks.

Yeah.

Give me your money.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm guessing that you didn't have a. The greatest copy in the world.

No, it's really not.

Here's the product. Do you want it?

Yeah, I mean it's such a visual product. Right. So like good product photos, that was about it. Like the other thing is like the site, like I said, the brand, like the brand aesthetic and stuff. Like it, like I'm from that audience, I know how it should feel. So I think even though we were a brand new company and everything, we looked legit. We looked like we fit right in, you know, so there's all that.

So you Pre sell these 1200 units and then you double down and you order more and the sales continue at this point. So people are talking about it, they're posting about it and the community is just going crazy.

Yeah, pretty much what mainly happened was actually like. Because yeah, we had a good amount of customers, but like 1200 word of mouth is like okay, something. But it was actually mainly the other influencers. Cause like an influencer would post it and then other ones would see it. And it was just this snowball of influencers really. And then trying to keep up with. Yeah, inventory was like the main challenge.

Well, there's something so, so freeing when you realize that if you just make a great product for a person, for a core customer that wants to be served in some way, you really don't have any competition, which is what I think. When you're the ebay flipper and you're selling well, you're selling phone cases or you're the Amazon reseller, or you're the Amazon brand that's selling the same thing as everybody else, you don't get this concept because it feels riskier. But then when you come out with something new that's specific for a person, you've never seen how the audience will take it and just run with it and tell everybody about it. Especially when your product is. Has some coolness factor to it. And that's when real brands start to break out. So, and the rise from pre selling 1200 units to $4 million three years later. Did you have a real strategy for growing the business or was this all just wildfire and you're trying to keep up with everything?

Yeah, it was wildfire. Trying to keep up, being a very inexperienced entrepreneur, not understanding like what size of a team I should have, stuff like this because. And not having experience managing a team at all or any. Or hiring, trying to do everything myself. Right. So it's like at first it's like perfectionism. I want to do everything myself. All that and then hiring. But I had the syndrome of it's called like entrepreneur and a thousand helpers where you don't delegate well. Everybody's always just coming to you asking for the answer. Right. Um, and it was, it was like, it became like, what. When I started it, it was all about the product and like these big promotions. And then my day to day just became answering a million emails. Like I got, I got severely burnt out. I didn't realize like how burnt out I was until way after the fact. But yeah, like we had that growth in three years, but it was no longer fun to me. Like I had, I didn't have a clear vision for what we were going to do next. I didn't like, know how I was going to innovate on the product. I didn't know, like, I was just so overwhelmed, honestly. And it was hard for me to like work on.

You're just treading water at that point, right? You're just like trying to figure out how to swim and stay above water. At some point you realize you need to partner with somebody or you need to exit. So. And I know you went through some sort of an acquisition, but I don't know all the details about that. So what can you share about selling the business or, or getting out of the business? Tell me a little bit about that process.

Yeah, so actually, now that I think about it, I guess we had hit the 4 million in two years because year three was really where the business started to decline. It was directly correlated with like, my energy level is crazy. So it was like when I was all amped up with the business, it was like growth, growth, growth. And then as I started to like top out, we started topping out. And then as I went into that burnout mode, like we were just declining.

Yeah.

And again, it's like not delegating. It's like being bad at hiring, but also being bad at like leading people and all that. And then as far as. So then it goes into like I was ready to just close it down. Which sounds crazy to me now. Cause it's like the business was still doing you know, probably like 1 50, 200k a month or probably 150amonth in revenue and But I was ready to just walk from it all because I just felt I was so burnt out. Like it was extreme.

Like I, I remember you were just done.

I was just so done over it.

I don't want this life.

Yeah.

I need something else. This isn't worth it to me anymore. I re. I remember that.

So I, I fire saled the company for 1x multiple and of revenue or of profit? Of. Let me think of profit. Yeah.

Okay. So a very modest.

Yes.

Exit. You basically were just like take this thing.

Yeah, I just. Yeah, just that. And then the inventory like and just cashed out and was like so happy to be done with it. Like it was way more of a life choice than like a logical strategic business exit.

And you sold it to someone in our community if I remember correctly. Like you met at one of our events.

Yes.

And that person was looking to buy businesses.

Correct.

You were looking to get rid of this problem child. Cuz you're thinking about just closing it down.

Yeah.

And he's like I'll buy it.

It was crazy actually cuz I was just, I heard him talking to someone else and he like was listing what he is looking for in a business and I was, I was just like dude, that's literally like my business. What you're talking about. Like Shopify, like email list like c. Like all these you know, checkpoints he wanted. And I was honest with him, you know, I told him like I'm super burnt out and I, I genuinely believed like if someone just came in with energy they could bring this thing back, you know, to life. But.

Yeah, so I, I sold it to him. I stayed on a little bit as an advisor just cuz like that to me was easy just to like take a call every once in a while and just try to make sure it steers in the right direction. Um. But yeah, the.

Business. So that was 2018. I started 2015, sold it 2018 and then I just rebought it in April so about four and a half years.

So you have a four and a half year gap in between selling it and buying it back. Which almost the, it was just ironic because it's almost the exact same timeline as me. I sold in 2017 and then bought it back in 2022. So about four, about a four and a half year gap. But you went through a lot of personal transformation.

Yes.

After that exit.

Massive. Yeah.

And that's the part of the story that I don't know. So you're a totally different person than you were back in 2018 when you sold this business. What did you go through on the other side of that exit? And what'd you do in those four and a half years?

Yeah, that's like, everything, honestly. So the exit gave me the ability to just, like, do whatever I wanted, basically, like, within reason, of course, but, like, I had pure freedom. And it. First, it was just like, I just played, like, video games for like a month straight.

And honestly, it was great until, like, by the end of that, I actually felt, you know, kind of depressed and all that, but.

But I would have never thought if you play video games for a month, yeah, I need to go longboarding.

But I needed it, though. I needed to just, like, disconnect from it all and, like, kind of resettle in. And then it was like, I actually really felt like. It's weird. I just felt, like, tremendous pressure to like, start my next company. Um, and. And then I was. Yeah. Trying to find happiness again. Right. Because the burnout. Really deprived. Like, I was really depressed for a while and.

You know, having all this freedom and having money, it was like, surely I should be happy. But I wasn't. Like, after the exit, it was like, depression and trying to figure out how to structure my life. There was. It was very disorienting because I felt like I had everything I ever wanted, but I wasn't happy.

And how old were you at this point?

I would have been. So this would have been 2018. Five years, so. 25.

Okay. So there's something interesting about when you're 25.

After college or during college, you have all these checkpoints that you have to hit. There's like this semester graduation. And then during this time, you were just like me. You're starting businesses in college, you graduate college, and you have checkpoints that are like, launch product, get to a million, have an exit, and then you're 25, you're flush with cash.

Yeah.

You know, first world problems, there's nothing to chase anymore.

Yeah.

It's like, what do I do with my life? Am I just done at 25? Like, is this where the road ends? I mean, those. Those are the questions I was asking. Right. At 27. So I'm guessing that you're kind of going through the exact same thing.

Exact same thing. Cause it's like you have such a, like, automated process around what to do next. It's like school, then college, then like get a job or start a business, make money. But then it's like, there's what after you do that now?

Right. Alex Hormozi told me once that the headline of my programs needs to be, I'll help you make so much money that it will cause an existential crisis.

Yeah.

Which is exactly true.

Yeah.

You know, you have, you have a business that hits a million, you have an exit, then you're like, what do I do now?

Yeah, what do I do now?

Which is the most unsexy sales pitch ever. So join the 1% will get you that existential crisis. So you go through that period of soul searching. What, what did you discover or conclude in those four and a half years?

A lot. So at first what I did was I just focused on like, how do I be really, like, healthy and how do I clear my mind. There were a lot of things. Like, a lot. It's gonna be hard to summarize it, but I spent like six months of trying lots of different, like, morning routine stuff and like, really anything just to like, feel good throughout the day, like.

Feel happy, feel like you're getting progress again and like.

Progress. Exactly. And.

Yeah, and another thing was to that point, everything, like I'd always been motivated mainly by like pain, to be honest. A lot of pain and fear based motivation to that point. And I knew that was unhealthy and I wanted like, I'd like watch like podcasts or interviews and stuff, and I'd see people really, that seemed like really positively motivated, not negatively motivated. So I wanted to like become positively motivated for the next business and not be building it out of fear or pain. Like. And so then it was like trying to like grow out of that somehow, which was like this morning routine stuff. Meditation, like yoga, working out, eating healthy.

Your nine hour morning. Or.

Yeah. Oh, God. Which didn't last that long, to be honest. But I did. It's weird. I got to this place where I was no longer like depressed, but I wasn't really happy either. And I was like in this very neutral zone. And the days were just like going by. It was weird. I was like complete. It was like completely comfortable. And when I realized that I was completely comfortable, I was like, this could be the rest of my life. And then that was terrifying. Like, I was like, I don't want this to be the rest of my life.

And you have no. It's basically you have no highs and lows.

Yeah.

You're just like Flatlined. Just very surviving.

Just.

But there's no joy.

No joy.

There's no excitement. There's no pursuit.

Yeah.

You're just kind of existing just like.

And the. The time would just fly by. It was wild. Like, it's day would go by, I'd feel like an hour or two went by. It'd be the whole day. Um, and I wasn't taking like antidepressants or anything that would. That does sort of create that effect of flatlining people, you know, but.

So, yeah, so then I just. I tried a lot of different things. I was like, okay, maybe I need to, like, pursue something meaningful or purposeful or legacy or like, trying to find like, what. What's the thing that will get me charged up again.

And.

And so, like, what I finally stumbled on and like, fell into. I've kind of, like, put together some principles, like guiding principles for myself. I also have like a scorecard I do every once in a while to just like, check where I'm at. And.

And it goes back to kind of what you were saying earlier, which. One of the core guiding principles I have is like. Like, I'm never gonna, like, push my, like, force myself to start a business. So.

It'S very much just like explore. So I'm just like in explore mode. And then as I, like, uncover something, it needs to be like, big enough that it's worth starting a business.

It's worth the struggle.

Yeah.

There's. Once you know you can do something, there's this challenge of what is worth my struggle.

Yeah.

I know it's going to be hard. I know it's going to be messy. I'm going to have bad days. Which of these is big enough or exciting enough for me to go through the crap?

Yeah. And that's exactly true. And then. Yeah, you just said big enough, which that was something I was way too fixated on too. Oh. And that leads me to a whole nother thing. So. All right. So, yeah, I was really fixated on, like, okay, I've, you know, sold a company that was doing X. Now I want to start a company that's doing, you know, 50 to 100 million a year type stuff.

Right.

Very fixated on how do I come up with that big idea. And that was like, I didn't realize how limiting that was, how much that was limiting me. But another really big breakthrough I had. It was actually at the Capitalism conference, like two or three years ago where Brooke Castillo spoke. Yeah. And she was talking about, like, kind of like overcoming your mind in like, certain Ways. I know she didn't say it in that way, but for me, what I took from it was like realizing I was like. I was certain that I, at that time, I didn't have, like, negative self talk at all. Like, I. I never heard, like, negative chatter in my mind at all. But what's interesting is, like, I didn't realize how much, like, my mind was in charge and, like, leading my life. And it's because, like, it's like your mind is like, so powerful. It's like probably the most powerful tool you have, I think. And then. But it. And it's like, very, very convincing. It's very logical and it keeps you safe. Right. But it was restricting, like, all of my creativity. It was restricting, like, my happiness. It was restricting, like, everything. And so the big change I made like a year ago or so was to let go of it more and more and more.

Let go of the. The mind.

Yeah. So, like, because it's like, I've been meditating since I was, like, in high school, so I know how to, like, make my mind quiet. But that's not the same thing. Like, it's. It's more of, like, not operating from the mind, operating from, like, the body. Now, like, for me, it's like I love to operate from the heart. I can't always, like, tap into that, but it's like operating from the body and. And then it's also like, operating from, like, even outside of the body, which I know starts to sound weird, but I find that when I'm like, in my absolute best, like, peak happiness, energy, creativity, everything, like, is amazing. Is actually like. It's always when I'm tapped into, like, it's like a source outside of myself.

Honestly, what was the first time you experienced that?

Um, I. It's hard for me to say because it's hard for me to look back and know when I experienced it. But I can tell you that the first time I experienced it and knew what I was experiencing was like a year ago. And so that was actually. Take that back. It wasn't a year ago. It was only. It was only in, like, March. So. Yeah.

Is this a guided psychedelic session or is this a longboarding session or what? Where does this. Where do you experience this?

Yeah, so.

Because if you operate in your mind for most of your life, that is. That's hard to shift out of. Yes, the mind is very powerful. Yeah, the mind is very strong and does not like to let go.

It's a master of disguise, too. You can't even tell that you're trying to trapped in it.

So. So what broke? What gave you a glimpse that there was another intelligence we say another way to find guidance that wasn't just in your mind.

Yeah.

Where did that break through?

So yeah, it's interesting for me, like I grew up. Okay. Yeah, this is, this is definitely where it came from. So for me, I grew up as a kid snowboarding and I've always been the into board sports, hence like the longboarding and stuff. And back in March, I was on a long snowboarding trip. It was like a four week trip and I was just doing stuff that I just loved. And it was a lot of stuff I like grew up doing as a kid. And.

I think it really comes back to that is like doing what you loved as a kid. Like, what's like. Cause when you're a kid, you're just like, you are free from the mind and you're just doing whatever and you're just gonna naturally gravitate towards whatever you're into. And for me, like, snowboarding is the most like soul enriching thing of like all time for me. When I'm snowboarding, I am out of my body. Like I am totally in just a flow and it's amazing and I'm just like so happy. And that like charge lasts for like a while. Like after, especially after a four week trip, like I'll have good energy for like months and then it's just like a slow decay of like, sure, I need to get it back. But so snowboarding for me and that's like as a kid again, doing what I loved as a kid. But there was also another element here that came in that I think was like the main thing. And maybe this is just something like personally to me, I don't know if this is like a quite quote unquote the answer for everyone or whatever, but one of the things I did on that trip was we went, we did backcountry snowboarding where we hiked in with our boards and it was like a five mile hike into the mountains, like totally remote and we were staying in a yurt and there's no electricity or anything. And to boil water you just burn wood and like put it on top of the stove. But it's really cold and it's like hard to boil the water and it takes forever. So we weren't really boiling the water, we were just like in. The water is just snow, you know? Cause you just take snow and you're just melting it, but like no one was really boiling the Water. And everybody seemed fine. So I was like, all right, whatever. Because, like, I heard you're supposed to boil water. But I was like, eh, Everybody seems fine about it. They do these trips all the time. It's a friend group I have out in Salt Lake that does all these trips and stuff. But, um, they.

So after that, it was like a couple days after I just got, like, a really nasty stomach infection. Um, and first I didn't know what it was. I just thought, like, I had a stomach bug or whatever. But it was like four days of no food or water. Like, I couldn't drink anything, eat anything at all. And strangely enough, my energy levels were, like, really high. Um, I didn't feel fatigued. I didn't. Like, again, that's another thing. Like, normally you get a stomach bug. You would be, like, really fatigued and stuff. But I just felt really good, full energy.

So the answer is, just get a stomach bug, puke and poop your guts out.

Yeah.

And you will find nirvana.

There was nothing in my system. Like, oh, my God, I couldn't believe how much is actually in your system.

You have to clear up.

But, like, I was like. But yeah, there was nothing left in my system. And, like, my gut couldn't have been, like, more cleared out. And I felt so good. It was like. It was weird. Uh, yeah.

Were you snowboarding on this trip? Okay, so you're. You have a snowboarding trip and then you come back and you basically have nothing to distract you because you're not eating.

Actually, I was still on the trip with the.

Oh, you were still on it. Okay, so you're.

It was just. The yurt trip was over, but I was still on the.

So you're still. Is there no electricity and. No, no.

At that point, I was staying in a cabin that there was electricity and water, but I don't think we were supposed to drink the tap.

But did you have WI fi?

Cell phone, wifi? Yeah.

Okay, but you're on this trip and you're puking and pooping your guts out. You have nothing in your system.

Yeah.

And somehow you have high energy.

Yes.

And the sense of peace.

Yes.

And you're connected to your body.

Yeah. And I feel like I'm operating outside of my body too. Like, um. Like, that's where all the energy's coming from. Like. Like, yeah. And I. I certainly wasn't like, on the verge of death or anything like that. I really don't think so. But, like, I was still, like, even in that state. Like, I was going snowboarding and doing stuff. Like, people are like, are you sure? Like, you seem really sick. It's like, I'm fine. I'm like, yeah, I was snowboarding. Went, like, hiking and stuff. I hadn't eaten in, you know, three, four days. And I was out, like, doing alpine skiing, which I had never done before, but, yeah, like, very active, you know.

And so what you took away from this is that there is some energy source outside of what you're used to.

Yeah.

Outside of what you've been tapping into for the last 27 years.

Yes.

You now have this. There's like. There's something beyond what I understand.

Yes.

You come that to life. Are you having insights about what you want to do next?

Yeah, everything was coming to me. Like, it was as if. Like, it was as if, like everything I'd been looking for was just coming to me. Just.

Yeah, like, I didn't have to. That was, you know, again, not operating from the mind. Right. Because, like, the mind, it's like you're trying to think through what makes sense or what's like, the right thing to do or this or that. But this state is just like. It's just like, true. Just intuition, like, to the core. And it's like nothing else matters. Like, it doesn't matter how big the business is. It doesn't matter if it makes sense. It doesn't matter, quote, unquote, if it's worth it. Right. Which is like, it. None of it matters. It's just like, oh, like, I love this. Like, and I. I want more of this. I. Yeah, I wanna. I, like, I need to get, like, the knives. Like, it just came to me as, like, oh, my. Why haven't I thought of all these things with the knives? Like, I started having all these innovative thoughts around the product and all this stuff. And I was like, holy crap. Like, I already have the relationships overseas to, like, do all this. Like, it was just that. And that's all like, the mind, right? Everything I just told you there is the mind that is connecting it, but are making it sound logical and reasonable. Whereas, like, this intu. Intuitive state is just like. It's just like, it just comes to you. Like. Like it just feels good. Like, it feels right. It's just like a state of. Yeah, I was like, I love this. Like, I want to do this. This is all I want to do. I don't care if it's. I don't care if it's even. Like, let's say this business does like 200k a year.

Like, I'm if it's giving you energy, if it's keeping you in that state.

Yeah.

Then it's is basically what I'm basically hearing you say is that previously the mind was running the show.

Yeah.

And the body and the heart are disconnected and the mind is running the show, draining that battery. That's what burnout is.

Yes.

Because the, the mind is one energy source, one source of intelligence, one. One way to make decisions. And it's very wise and it's very intelligent. But if the rest of the system, body, heart, spirit, whatever.

Yeah.

Are drained, it's gonna, it's, it's gonna kill itself. Right. The mind is just going to create rabbit holes and kill itself. And what I'm hearing you say is that you got into a state in which the mind couldn't do anything.

Yeah.

You're in the middle of nowhere. You're exerting your body, you're with friends and you're doing things that you love and the system's empty.

Yeah.

It's the same reason why people go to long meditation retreats or long sweat lodges. It's activating the body in some forceful way to where the mind has to get out of the way. And now the mind is the servant. And what I've found is I haven't found a way to systematically do this.

Yeah.

But when my body and my heart are running the show, the mind is quick. But when the mind is running the show, my body and my heart are really slow and the battery drains. And so I have to do things like take the jet skis out or I have to go play baseball or go play pickleball or.

Man, what a bummer. Yeah.

It's funny.

But when you're in a mind driven state, it's the last thing you wanted because the mind is so fixated on problems.

Yeah.

That going out and having fun is like, this is not a productive use of my time.

Mind is like, how do I, how do I fuel up? Actually, you need to go to bed, mind, you need to, you know, go away. I need to go get fueled up and then I will be sharp again. That's basically what I'm hearing you say. Is that a fair summary?

It's a really good summary. Yeah, exactly.

So when you're in this state, you're starting to get ideas about the business that you sold four and a half years ago.

Yeah.

Did you have the opportunity to buy it back or was it, was that on the table at that point?

Um, no, not necessarily, but it, it was something that had come up. It Was actually only like a few months after I sold the business. Like six months after I sold it, I started thinking, wait, do I want to buy it back? Like I started thinking about it.

Yeah. Cause you're no longer draining the battery.

Yeah. And it would just come up in my head. I'd feel that way for like a week. And then I'd be like, I really don't want to deal with that. And then it was in the back of my mind, I had ideas. I came up with a really innovative idea about a year after I sold it. But I was like, oh, that's impossible. It's not practical, all that sort of thinking. It's all the mind stuff.

And then.

Yeah, I was on that trip and that was in March and actually. Yeah. Because I had called him before I found the. Yeah, the previous owner. I had called him before I flew out there. I actually called him and kickstarted it actually. So it was already in motion. So. Yeah.

You called and you're like, I'm thinking about I might want to buy the business back.

Yeah. And he says he was ready to just. He was done with it. Yeah.

So he was in the same state you were four years ago.

He. He had a few other businesses too, and one of them was doing really well. So mine was just kind of like on the sideline. Yeah. So he was like, yeah. And yeah. So.

So you decide to buy it back while you're in this state, Is any part of you thinking, what if I buy it back and I drain myself again?

Yeah, that was, that was kind of what I was thinking over the years was that concern. But I would say it was because of that. Just intuition that was like. I wasn't worried about that. I was like, um, it's like I have to do this. Like, it literally feels like my purpose. I. Yeah. And.

And yeah, there, of course, like even now, like there's definitely days where it's very draining. Even recently it's been kind of draining cuz like the innovations I'm working on are not working. And it's taking a lot of time. It's slower, it's taking more time. Things are not really working yet.

But you need to go throw up some Andy. Throw up and poop your guts out. We found the answer.

Yeah.

You closed on the business to buy.

It back when this was in April, like April 24th.

So just like just a few months ago.

Yeah.

Okay, so what has happened? First of all, did you buy it back for more or less than you sold it for.

For less?

Yeah. I Can relate to this.

Yeah.

I bought my business back for $0.03 on the dollar versus what I sold it for.

Mine was like, $0.10.

Yeah. Okay.

Yeah.

So we have very similar stories there.

Yeah.

What was your turnaround plan? To take it from worth, you know, what you bought it for, to this vision that's now in your head, mind, body, and spirit?

Yeah. So.

Yeah. Like, actually, sorry, could you repeat it? I started trailing. I don't want to.

Yeah, you're thinking about throwing up. What was your turnaround plan? To take it from the value from which you bought it to this thing that matches what's in your mind, spirit, body, part.

Yeah, exactly. So, and this is also what's different now than before. So, like, before, if I were to tell you a turnaround plan, it would be very, like, statistical, like, numbers and, like, you know, margin this, profit this, whatever. But now it's just like, our turnaround plan is literally to just continue innovating on the product until we actually create something, like, truly unique and special. And then once we get there, then literally just promote it in the right places and then just see how it's received. Like, that's literally it.

So you want to do it for the doing?

Yeah, for the creativity? I'm completely driven by the creativity. Yeah.

Creativity in the product, creativity in the process. What does that mean?

Yeah, so. So, like, the. The core. The core thing that, like, my business does is write the skins on the knives, right? So, like, the artwork and stuff, and I'm innovating, like, new ways to do that. And so with that comes, like, as we develop these new capabilities on how we can, you know, treat the knives, do these different colors, these sorts of things. Like, I'm just opening up this, like, big, like, big, like, tool set essentially, of. It's almost like a big Photoshop in a way of, like, making real knives. Right? So it's like, right now everything is, like, setting up this, like, essentially, like, quote, unquote, like, creative, like, studio, essentially. And then, like, as that's, like, built out now I get to just be creative. I get to just like. Like, for example, like, we might have a certain type of artwork and, like, certain parts of it. I want to do, like, different color treatments or, like, engravings or finishes, like, all kinds of stuff. I'm trying not to say stuff that's, like, new that I'm working on, but.

It'S like, that's what I'm super. I'm super excited by. Yeah, it is the process. Like, not the process now. The process now kind of Sucks. Cause it's like setting it all up, you know?

But once you're back in the grind.

Yeah, it's the grind.

You're back in the grind of creating something that you're not quite sure is going to work.

Yeah. There's no certainty at all, but other than just the intuition. The intuition's like, it's already done. Like, it's already there. And like, those four and a half years off is like, as an entrepreneur, like, I already know. Like, I'm more than capable today. Like, I'm probably like a 20 million a year type entrepreneur. But I don't, like, have those results to show, but I already know that I'm there. Like, develop developmentally wise and. But at the same time, it's like, so, like, I see myself taking this business there, but I'm really not fixated on that at all. Like, I'm really way more focused on just the creativity around it. Like, that's what really. Like, whenever I'm feeling like, oh, this grind kind of sucks. It's like I literally just look at some of the designs we've come up with. Like, stuff that's not yet. We're not able to do yet, but, like, I believe we will get there. And then that's like, oh, my God, that's so cool. And then it's like, charged.

I can relate to this completely. When I was just considering reacquiring sheer strength, I had all these ideas of things I wanted to do.

Yeah.

And then I closed in the business and I'm like, what have I done?

It does feel that way some days.

What have I done? This was a terrible idea. This did not make sense. And then I got into the product formulation process and I just felt blissful. I loved the creation process of thinking about, I'm going to create this with this result for this person in a way that no one's ever done it.

Yeah.

In this industry before. And I can't wait. I just can't wait for people to have it. I can't wait for people to experience it.

That's what I think about a lot too.

The creative process of bringing that to life. And. And now I've created three or four different products and they're in production and I'm sitting here twiddling my thumbs. And now, like, this was a terrible idea. What have I done?

And.

And so in order to snap out of that, I have to go back into the creative process where I'm thinking about the result this is going to create for someone else, not what it's going to do for me because I'm thinking about how I generate more sales so that I can look cool or I can be the a hundred million dollar entrepreneur that I believe that I am. Then I'm thinking about me and I'm draining the battery. But when I'm thinking about creating something that is infusing life into the world and I'm thinking about the customer that I'm doing it for, there's this life that comes alive in that process that you just want to bring to the world just because you want to see it exist.

Totally. I just want to see it exist. Yeah. And I totally agree with you there. Like, if anything, it's like.

I want it just as bad as like the customer, if you like.

So, yeah. The product itself and me.

Yeah. Like, I want this pro, like the idea I have. Like, I want it just as bad as, like probably the customer. Like so, like. Yeah, you were just talking about, like, how you really want to bring it to the customers. It's like I also just want it for myself. That bad. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a beautiful place to be.

Yeah.

So where I would like to take things to close is what you. Now that you've had this insight, this insight of I can operate at a different capacity than the mind.

Yes.

There. I'm sure there are days, I have days where the mind takes over totally and you lose that intuitive creative spark that is the whole reason why you're doing it.

Yeah.

And you're using the business as a proxy to stay in that state now. But sometimes the mind takes over totally and you get into selfish mode, you get into grind mode, you get into draining the battery mode. Now you had an awareness that there is a different state possible. What do you do to counterbalance when the mind is taking over and draining that battery?

Yeah, I don't have, like you said, I don't have like a good systematic process, to be honest.

So we'll call each other when we figure it out.

Yeah. It's like that's what my scorecard is for, is for me to. Because when I was in burnout, I wasn't aware of it until way after the fact. And so the scorecard is like a check. Like. Cause the. Like you said, the mind is a master of disguise. You can't even tell. It's like you can't tell until you. At least for me, I can't tell until I'm at a point of like pure just despair.

Yeah, right, right. I. Oh, man. I. I went through this last Week I was not quite to despair, but it was like, this sucks. Yeah. I want out of this. Right. I've been. Now, I've been working really hard lately rebuilding our sales processes and our product line, and I just hit that point of just a wall. And it was that I needed to call my friend in town and we needed to go sauna, cold, plunge, swim. Because that pulls me right out of it.

Right.

And. But within four hours, I am back to.

Dang it.

I'm back to life.

I think you had to say the other.

No, no. I'm back to, like, I'm in my body.

Yeah. Yeah.

My heart's open and I'm ready to go. And. But. But I don't hit it. Like, I don't know that until I hit that wall that you're talking about. Right. And what I'm trying to do is back that up a little bit earlier. Yes. And say, when do I know it's coming? So that I can take care of it then and I can stay in a. In a charge place. You mentioned this scorecard that you're using. Rob Dyrdek shared with me that he has this daily scorecard where he just says he has these habits that he knows to take me into that state or out of that state.

Yeah.

So he measures, did I drink alcohol this day? Because I know alcohol takes me out of it.

Takes it out of it.

Or did I have my morning meditation? Because I know that that puts me in it. And he creates a scorecard, and then he scores his overall life satisfaction, and he looks for the correlations between those two.

That's exactly what I'm doing, too.

You disciplined, logical people. I envy this part of you that you.

I have. I have only filled it out maybe eight times since I started in, like, March. So.

Not that disciplined or logical. It's more of like, hey, I'm feeling a little weird. Maybe I should do the scorecard, see where I'm at. And then. Yeah, that's.

So you know when you're out of it and what can pull you out of it? But you're still practicing.

Still practicing, for sure. Cause again, it was only since March that I really, like, really actually came to terms with all this. Like, on the same level that you're saying as well with all this. And the main thing for me is, like, just get away from the screen. Like, and that also is, like, I can tell when I'm slowing down in. In the day. And, you know, sometimes I start the day and, like, I always give it at least an Hour. If I can't get into it in like an hour, then it's like.

If my mind's got too much of a grip on me, then it's like, cancel everything. Stay here. Like, I need to allocate more time. It's like, no, it's terrible. But yeah, it's like I do walk away from it. Even just like this past week. To be honest, I. I did just walk away from it. Like half walk away, though.

Well, haven't you noticed any. That when you're in the charged up state, like when you're body, mind, spirit, whatever, when you're tapping into that other energy source, you get more done way more in a day than you would get done in a week.

Easily.

Easily.

Yeah.

Right. For me, it's like my content flows, my sales copy flows, my relationships flow. Everything just works. And I make sharp decisions. So sometimes just walking away from it is a really damn good idea.

I know it's hard because it's hard, but. Yeah, it is.

I. This is why I started doing the podcast in person versus over the screen. Because when it's in front of the screen, it's just another thing for me to do.

That's true. Yeah.

But when. Like when we're in person here, there's a different energy that exists, and I leave with more energy. And I. I started doing things like prioritizing where there was energy richness.

Yes.

Because if I go there first, then everything else just seems to kind of fall into place. But if I drain the battery, I don't even want to go to where there's. I just want to just tap. I just want to eat pizza.

Yeah.

What did you do? Escape it. Right. Anything to just distract myself from it. So what you're reminding me of and inspiring me to do more of is to prioritize those things that on the surface don't make sense to the mind, but you're always glad when you do them because there is this whole other intelligence and energy source that lives in that. And I. My mind doesn't know how to describe that or understand that or intellectualize that, but it's like my body knows. And so I know that sounds frou frou and weird, but we live in Austin, and that's cool here.

But it's just. It's like the truth, honestly. Like, I don't know, there's like. There's something about it that once you're aware of it, it's a knowing, like, you know, it's truth.

Like, what do you plan to do differently in the business this time than the first time that when you ran.

The company a lot differently. So one is not worry about optimizing things. So like I'm not gonna be focused on optimizing like our email and our copy and all this stuff. Like I don't, I don't care. Like I'm just gonna make great products and have it like good service. So like it's a totally different lens really. Like before it's like how do you maximize profit and sales?

Yeah.

Now it's like how do I just like make a great product, provide great service and um. And yeah really value like relationships with our customers and our influencers and just focus on that and then whatever numbers we hit, I mean as long as it's a healthy business, then it's all good.

Yeah, I get that. And tell us a little bit about the business itself. Tell, tell us where people you comfortable sharing website where people can follow it, track along your journey.

Yeah, the, the business is called Elemental Knives and that's the website just Elemental Knives. Com. Our social media right now is. Hasn't posted since like January. I think it's pretty. Everything looks very stale right now. And it's gonna look that way for a while. Cause I don't care to do a bunch of work on nothing. Like we gotta, we gotta have our new product in and that's.

I always tell people that I'm embarrassed if they look up sheer strength. Cause it, it should be called shit strength right now. Yeah, I bought a shitty company.

It's funny.

It's gonna take some time.

It's funny because like a lot of people will tell me, oh it looks so nice. Like it's like.

No it doesn't.

It's trash right now.

Give me, give me six months to redo the product line, redo the branding, redoing the messaging, redo everything and then we'll talk. Then you can look up sheer strength. Be less shitty.

Exactly. Yeah.

I'm. I'm excited to see how this unfolds for you because it's been my observation that when you can align that deeper energy with the mind, it's rocket fuel. When you only act in intuition or body, it's. It's like a good day to day experience. But it's not powerful in like the creative process. And when you're only operating in mind, you can build something great. But then you're drained and you burn out and you hate your life. But when you can align the two, if you can align the two, there is just magic that happens.

So a hundred percent.

I'm excited to watch.

Yeah.

Thanks for hanging out with us, Andy. Good to see you.

Thanks. Yeah, thanks for having me.

You don't need to have a breakthrough idea to have a multimillion dollar business. You need to have one person that you serve. And that person can be a video game player, it can be a mom, it can be someone at your church. It can be one specific community that isn't known to most of the world but is underserved by the rest of the world. If you choose a community and you have a product that connects with them, you, you can get to a hundred sales a day. And if you want to see our playbook for how we take businesses to a hundred sales a day, just head over to capitalism.com playbook and you can download all the resources there and see how we build million dollar brands in 12 months or less. I'm Ryan Daniel Moran with capitalism.com thanks for watching. And now a quick word from Jared, one of our members.

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