How to Flip Baseball Cards For Fun & Profit

Hey, capitalists, what's up? This was a really fun wine with Wyan that I held inside of the 1% with my buddy Dan here in Austin, who trades baseball cards as a side hustle. And sometimes he makes 1000 bucks on a trade and sometimes he makes 100 bucks on a trade and everywhere in between. And I brought Dan onto into this chat inside the 1% because we're talking about flipping stuff inside the membership. And I wanted to hear about the latest and greatest going on in the world of trading baseball cards. If you listen to Gary Vaynerchuk, he says, you know, this is basically his favorite side hustle at the moment. And due to everything going on in the world, there's a lot of buy low opportunities in the market. So I asked Dan what kind of cards he trades and, and where he sells them, how and when he buys them. His approach is really different than it was when I was a kid or I was into flipping baseball cards. He is buying really early stage young baseball players and then when they have kind of a bump in the marketplace, he flips them. It's really fun. And if you're looking for a side hustle or something to do with some extra time right now, this is just. There couldn't be a more fun side hustle if you are a sports person or just in the market for a new opportunity. So this is really fun and really informative on how to make money flipping baseball cards for fun and profit. Enjoy. It takes one free person to create change. This is the show for them. We are the creators of the Free world. This is capitalism.com and we are the 1%.

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. I am joined by Dan Evars. Did I say that right?

Yes.

My new best friend in the world.

We.

We met 20 minutes ago and we're all, well, virtually virtually an edition of Wine with Wine. And we just became fast friends because tonight we're talking about flipping baseball cards for fun and profit. And since it's a special quarantine edition, I decided to go full on White Girl. And I'm calling it White Claw with Lion. It is White Claw with Wyan Land.

I wish I had gotten a memo because I'm actually on keto. So you're on what, a ketogenic diet? So I'm getting married in October and I gotta lose some weight, man. I gotta lose that weight. And so I hopped on keto about a month ago and I'm already down about £15. Good for you.

Well, when you're ready to step it up a notch, I've got my keto, my keto pito, my keto pizza recipe, which is baller.

I'll definitely need that.

I'm actually working on a new business right now called Fitbake flours, which will be a low carb, high protein flours that you can use for pizza crusts and you can use them for cake mixes and you can use them for banana breads and all kinds of stuff.

That's what we need. You know, I got this carb quick stuff right now that we're using to, to make this whatnot, but it's tough.

It will hold you over, but it's not quite, you know, well, you get.

Sick of cheese, you know, cheesy biscuits after about two weeks. That's where I'm at. I can't do bacon anymore, man. Congratulations on £15.

That's great, Dan. I mean, we're gonna, we're talking about trading baseball cards tonight. But I wanted to ask you, I know this is kind of a side thing for you, is that correct?

Yeah, yeah.

What is your, what's your primary source of income?

So, yeah, so I actually, I own a talent agency based here in Austin, Texas. And you know, we dabble. We did a lot of stuff kind of in the tour industry, touring around musicians, YouTubers, and then we also built accounts as well. And we did stuff with Vans Warp Tour. I don't know if you're familiar with them. We kind of co founded the YouTube Warp Tour program. So we did stuff with them and now we do a lot of brand deals, sponsorships, conventions for a number of major talents. About 400 right now. So it's, it's been keeping me busy, but it's okay.

That's. Well, that's great. And how long have you been trading sports cards on the side?

About, I want to say about like 14 years. Okay. Yeah. So it's been a while. It's been a while.

Yeah. And oh. So kind of the, the pulse on the market seems to be that it's kind of seeing a resurgence in the last few years. Especially like the last year. There almost seems to be kind of a lot of new people coming in. Is that, is that the case?

Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Especially for the, for the NBA. We're seeing a lot of money, you know, going into NBA rookie cards like Lucas Giannis. You know, the money that we're seeing flowing into sports cards specifically has been really, really interesting and fun to watch because, you know, again, I originally got into it during the 2008, 2009 crisis. So you know, the prices back then compared to what they are today. It's like night and day. The cards are way more expensive now.

And is that like if I mean it, it's one thing to take like a Michael Jordan rookie card and say of course the price is higher now than it was in 2008. Are you saying just across the board? All, all.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh totally. So you know, there used to be, I'm a prospector so what I do is I buy and buy and sell baseball cards specifically autographed rookie card variations.

While they're weather in prospect form before these guys reach the major leagues. And I profit off of sales, you know, before while they're hyped as a prospect, a top 100 prospect. And usually I'd be able to buy in, you know we'll say Mike Trout back in the day used to be able to buy in at, he'd be pretty hype but he'd be able to buy it like 60, 60 to $80. And now his base, you know, his baseline rookie card auto, his Bowman Chrome First Auto is like you know, $12,000. And, and, and now.

Well I mean he's, but he's, he's one of the greatest players history of baseball now.

But you'd buy in before people knew that. So you'd buy in when he's in, you know, single a double A before people knew, you know, Mike Trout was. Yeah and that's kind of the name of the game. It's all speculation and you know you used to be able to buy really good players, really high grade players, you know, for like 20, $30 and then you'd be able to flip them for you know, 60, 70, $80 profit. But now people are so in tune to this market. You know Jason, Jason Dominguez is a great example. 17 year old kid that the Yankees signed, he hasn't, he hasn't played a single game in any, in any minor league affiliate and his, his stuff's going for 170, 180 bucks and he hasn't had a single at that. So there's so much speculation in this market you really got to be smart about how you invest and, and how do you go about it and you know we're going to talk a lot about, you know, a lot about that tonight and see if we can help people out.

Yeah, we're going to dive really into that. First of all, if you are watching live, please say hello in the comments. We're using some new software tonight that actually beams the comments Right over to us. It's moved a little bit away from zoom lately. So, Austin Dixon, it's good to see you. Call me when you're ready to upgrade things. My friend, Curtis Rummel. Good to see you.

We're wearing the exact same shirt. That's funny. So let me just jump into one interesting question that Curtis posted here. I've got it on the screen. He says, so based on what you're saying, are sports cards pure speculation? Why do they hold value? It's hard for me to understand why they're valuable. Could you answer that to kick things off?

Yeah, you know, it's a tough one. It's, why is bitcoin valuable? You know, why are some stocks valuable? You know, a lot of people buy into speculation, right. For this market, it has such a storied tradition of baseball cards. It goes back 100 plus years of people collecting, people investing, people buying. I think that's something that has really carried through the generations and has made it exciting for people to get involved in. Yes, a lot of it is pure speculation, but there's ways to mitigate risk and we're going to talk about that tonight. How we can know, mitigate the risk and buy into good players that could potentially be superstars and make, you know, double, triple your money off of your investments. But yes, a lot of it is pure speculation. But you know, a lot of stuff. I mean if you, if you've got money and you're investing, you're usually investing in some sort of speculation that, that.

I mean there's, there's some truth to that. If you're hoping that the value, the actual, the, the value that other people put on it goes up. There's, if you're buying a dividend paying stock, you're banking on the dividend being consistent, that company being profitable. But the speculation part in baseball cards is coming from the performance of the player.

100%.

The performance of the player will determine how in demand the card is. To answer your question, Curtis.

So, you know, it's actually interesting just to kind of play off that a little bit. It's two things. So, you know, it's not only performance of the player but in what I invest in. It's actually how the scouts perceive the player's potential. And it's, it's really interesting because you can have a player that bats 217 in his first full year, but they're still very high on his tools.

I see.

You know, and that's a lot of it is like a lot of it Is performance based when it gets to the major leagues. And performance can help you determine what players are maybe living up to expectation. But it's a really interesting scene. The minor league investment pool.

Yeah. To kind of piggyback on your example, which is a, I, obviously an extraordinary example of Mike Trout where you could buy a rookie a minor league card for 60 or 80 bucks and now it's worth 12,000. The, the difference there is Mike Trout is literally might be the greatest baseball player in the history of the game.

Yeah.

And he's not done yet. I mean he is just. Is a top five play. He could retire now and be a top five player ever.

Right.

At what? I don't even know if he's 30 yet.

I think he's like 26, 27, 23rd.

We're talking about an extreme example here. And what Dan is saying is that he bought minor. If you had bought minor league cards where you were betting on this young kid making the major leagues and then being good, you would have had absurd roi. But this was an extreme case. Just to show you the, the contrast that can happen. But between the Mike Trouts, there are a hundred other people who have good careers and if you have their minor league card, you were really early to the game. And that the value of that goes up because all of the attention comes around the people who are good. That is, that's the reason why the price goes up. It's not because they have any other intrinsic value except for the fact that other people want them. And it's been a hobby that has existed for a hundred years. Right. Just like antiques, just like magic, the gathering.

Paintings. What's the other one?

Paintings.

Yeah. I mean, we could.

Boys.

Art, right? It's art for guys, right? And you know, autographs alone have been collected for, I mean, forever. I mean, autographs alone. You know, there's a market for just autographs, whether it be, you know, politicians or, you know, players of different leagues or, you know, famous people in general, actors, whoever it might be. There's, there's, you know, market. A strong market for that. And you know, when we're talking today about, you know, baseball card investments, we're talking, I'm talking specifically about Bowman Chrome, the first year player. Autographs. So they're, they're going to look like this, they're going to look like Bowman. There we go. Yeah, get that. So Bowman Chrome, these are the only ones we're talking about today in terms of investment quality, investment grade, high return cards. So. So any of your listeners that are Kind of tuning in right now and wanting to know what's really good to invest in for baseball, specifically Bowman Chrome. The first year autographs. Those are the Mike Truck $12,000 base auto cards. Those are the Wander Franco $400 base auto cards. Those are the big cards that you want to invest in and they come in color variations which we'll kind of talk about a little bit tonight.

Yeah, so the game has matured a little bit since I was trading baseball cards in elementary school because the color coding and all of this is a little bit new to me now. Bowman is, has been around forever. They're, they're the brand of sports cards. But explain to me what the rest of what you just said means.

Yeah, so we're talking tonight, we're talking investment grade stuff. So, you know, back when we were kids, you know, Don Russ mass printed, you know, everything under the sun, every player that you could name. And that's the reason why Randy Johnson autographs from 1987 or whenever he was rookie only go for maybe $15, maybe $8, something like that. They were mass printed, you know. Now Bowman Chrome, specifically Bowman Chrome for baseball, that's really viewed as the pinnacle. That's, that's viewed as investment great. You know, collectors all over want to get their hands on specifically Bowman Chrome first year autos. And that's most of where I've made money. A lot of people have made some good money doing it as a side hustle. And that's mostly investment grade stuff. So that's kind of what we're mostly looking at.

And you're saying investment grade auto. I know auto means autographed.

Yes.

Autograph is investment grade. Is that a phrase you're saying or is that an official trading card lingo?

Yeah, so it might be trading card lingo. I use it kind of with my friends as to like what is investable because there's a lot of cards out there. If you go on ebay and you look up Randy Johnson autograph, you're going to see Don Russ, you're going to see flir, you're going to see all sorts of autographs. But it doesn't necessarily mean those are investment grade. You know, there needs to be a demand for whatever card you're, you know, you're investing in. And you know they are serial number and the lower the serial number is usually better. But you know, tonight I really think the focus with Bowman Chrome rookie cards is where it needs to be for investment stuff. So investment grade is kind of a term I use. But you know, for anyone who's kind of in the industry that understand, like where investment money should lie. And Bowman Chrome is definitely a good spot for anyone who's looking to get involved.

And do you. And you only buy autographed rookie cards?

Yeah, so I typically only buy. I mean, I have bought just regular Bowman Chrome non autographs. And you know, those are fantastic as well. You can make quite a bit of money. But for me, it made even early on, I mean, When I was 16, 17 years old, some of my first investments were $300 cards, 300 $400 cards, and actually Jose Fernandez, I don't know if you remember him on the Marlins, God bless him, but yeah, colored refractors, which we'll dive into here in a second. Those are where you can really find the big multipliers and quick money. I mean, we're talking. I think I bought two of his orange refractor autographs, graded which are numbered to 25. They're an orange Bowman Chrome rookie card and they're autographed. And I think I bought two of them for 300 a piece. And then within nine months, I mean, the guy was rocketing through the minor leagues and it looked like he was gonna be the next big thing. And he was. Yeah, sold them each for 1200 at 16 years old. And that was one of my first big trades.

Okay, so you had bought them for 300 a piece.

Yep.

Yeah. And you sold them for 1200 a piece.

Yeah. So it was pretty.

So interesting. Where were you buying them?

So most of the business that I do is through eBay. EBay is a fantastic resource. You can also go to card forums, Baseball Court, I think it's actually called Baseball Card Forum to go trade with people to buy on there directly to save on ebay fees or whatever it might be. You know, there are awesome forums that you can go to to kind of build a community around what you're doing. And for me, it's obviously investing. So back when I was, you know, trading those cards specifically, I would go to Baseball Card Forum and there'd be a group of people on there that traded Bowman Chrome and as, you know, 16 year old. And I'd get in with those people, trade around, try to get the cards that I wanted and then sit on those and hope that they would, you know, they'd have a good season and then flip them the following season for, you know, what would be more money. So that's, that's mostly what you do is ebay card forums. You know, there's not A lot of stuff on like Facebook, Marketplace.

Yeah. So the, the Jose Fernandez example, buying them for 300, wait a few years, flip them for 1200. Those are not autographed cards, correct?

No, those were, those were, it was like nine months. Again, you can make a lot of money in just one season.

That's really interesting. And here, here's the story that's playing over my head. When I was, when I was in New York. Last time I was in New York, I was interviewing Gary Vaynerchuk. I was sitting in his office and he has just stacks of cards, right? I mean, he is he. And they're all the same card. Like he's buying lots of the same right now.

He's bought a ton of Giannis right now.

And the, they're. None of them are autographed. It's just like just a stack of cards. And I didn't know enough about the strategy to even know. It was just like, oh, he really thinks this guy is gonna hit it big. So explain to me the rationale. Your, your rationale is you buy single autographed rookie cards. And then there's the guy that is actually, he's probably the, he's popularized baseball card trading again, and he's got a hundred of the same exact card. So explain to me the difference in the mentality there.

So think of it like the stock market, right? You're buying stock in a player, and when you go to the stock market, you're usually buying more than one stock because you want to make more money off of product. And so that's kind of the same mentality you have to have when you're in this space. So when you're buying baseball, basketball, football, whatever, soccer, whatever it might be, the mentality going into it is unless you're buying high grade cards, like I was with Jose Fernandez, you know, you typically want to buy if you're really big into a player, you want to buy really as many as you can to invest and have a position in that player so that when the market does rise, you have a stock to sell. And so that's, I think, why, you know, Gary is really investing heavily in certain players because he wants to have a position in those players. And that's a lot of what I'm doing right now is in baseball especially, you know, with, with the season on hold, it's a great time to buy because there's a lot of people panic selling right now, and that's a great time to buy and low. And you know, that's, it's an awesome time right now for people just looking to get into the market because prices right now are probably going to be as low as that. They're going to be all season, you know, pending. We don't have a season.

Yeah, yeah. Great example of it being like the stock market where you've got, you know, you could buy a hundred shares of ExxonMobil at fifty bucks or you could buy one share of Amazon at two grand.

Right.

That's the difference. That makes sense. Thank you for that. Now explain to me why with the season on hold, there are people panic selling. Why is that creating more of a buyer's market?

Yeah. So, you know, I think there's two things. There's a squeeze right now because people need cash. Right. So you have a lot of people. What I'm doing is I'm buying high grade stuff. So it's, it's, it's cards that are graded by Beckett, cards that are graded by psa. They have a high grade in their grade system. Just to give a little context as to what I'm talking about, Bowman Chrome specifically has different color refractor variations. So they start with a regular refractor that's numbered to four. Actually a base auto that's not numbered. They have a refractor that's numbered to 499. And then they have other color variations like orange number to 25, red to 5. And obviously the lower the number, the lower the serial number, the more valuable it is. And what we're buying mostly right now is there's two different.

So basically what I'm hearing is I'm going to show my nerdom here. But basically this is like Pokemon cards. And then you had like the Pokemon Platinum or whatever it was. And then there's the same card, but it's like a different.

Collector'S edition. Is that basically there's. So there's basically different levels of the same card.

Exactly.

This brand has. Okay.

And people love lower serial numbers, especially in collectible cards. If you see a serial number, typically people. It's more valuable to people. And we're looking at, you know, graded cards as well. You know, there's higher multiples on graded cards. Specifically the PSA and the Beckett graded, the BGS graded cards. And their grading system is at Beckett by a 0.5 decimal. So this card right here, a Diego Cartaya, there's a Dodgers prospect. You see the 9.5 up at the top, right below that, there's different variations. It kind of says like centering 10 corners. It's got grades on pretty much every major piece of this card. And it came out to 9.5. And the autograph is 10. And these are the highest grade of investable cards for prospects and just baseball and really any sports card in general. 9.5 and a 10 instead of a 9.5. If that was a 10, it'd be a 10. 10 per steam. And those are the hardest ones to find.

I see.

And, and then we have.

So just, just to catch anybody up to speed on this who's not familiar with some of these terms, what Dan is saying is that these, these signed, rarer cards of pro prospects, of young players, once they're signed, they're sent off to be authenticated. And then the. Basically the rating system grades how sharp the corners are, how good the. The autograph looks, and gives it a rating 0 to 10. You don't buy anything lower than an 8 or a 9. And that's a 9.5 10. 10 is where you, where they're the rarest and the highest quality. And that was a 9.5 10.

You rarely see any, any 10 of tens. This is the PSA version. It's a sparkle autograph. It's a little hard with the light there, but it sparkles. It's number to 199. It's a bowman first. And.

And that's a, that's a PSA 10. So that's a PSA. It's a high PSA will give, but they don't do like half increments. So it really goes like 9 or 10. And the only ones you really want to buy are tens. PSA only buy tens. Folks only buy tens. Unless it's a very low serial number autograph. Then you can make an exception because there's only a few of those autographs and the demand's still going to be there. There's actually been cases where people have bought lower grade cards and just cut them right out. Just cut them right out because they're actually worth more out sleeve instead of in.

That's interesting. So that card. Can you tell me a little bit what your thought process was when you were going in and buying that player and that card.

Yeah. So let's, let's actually back up into how we evaluate this. Yeah, great.

That'd be great.

Everyone, the prospect handbook. This is going to be your bible. All right. Baseball America's Prospect handbook. This thing is fantastic. It gives you the top 30 of every single organization, the top 30 of top 30 prospects as to who's going to be Maybe up and coming for a certain organization. And then it also gives you kind of the top 100 of major league in general, the prospects. And, and for each prospect, they give a rating between 0 and 80 on each skill set. So the hit tool, the power tool, their arm fielding speed, and again, everything is kind of, you know, rated between 0 and 80, 80 being the best. I don't know why it's between 0 and 80. It's kind of weird, but that's how they do it. And you know, reading through the prospect handbook, you want to look for, you know, different prospects and at certain price points that make sense for you and your budget to invest in. And that tool, if anyone gets anything out of this today, it's that handbook. That handbook. Baseball America is fantastic, you know, because that, that combines not just their opinion, but an opinion of all, every organization out there as to what they think about each of the 30 players for each of these organizations. So it's invaluable when going in and investing in players. And for me, Diego Cartaya was the individual. The card that I had posted up, I've been buying into him quite a bit, see if I can get. Yeah, so we've been buying a bunch of Diego Cartayas. This is a base auto, this is a refractor auto. And you know, we're looking for really high grade stuff with him. And you know, he's an 18 year old catcher out of Venezuela and you know, they have some really high grades on him right now for not only his catching skill, they think he's a already major league quality behind the plate.

And that's one of the hardest positions to master. You know, usually you're not popping up into the majors until you're 25, 26.

Right.

You know, and so for an 18 year old to kind of show those attributes, it's pretty impressive. But you look for keywords and that's how you can kind of slip in and get those good players based on the scouting reports that you read and in their future skill set, what you envision them becoming.

So for another example for what Dan is talking about is in. I'm a Cleveland sports guy, I'm an Indians fan, and for years, for years we had two prospects in the minor leagues that all of the scouts said were going to be basically the next franchise players for the Cleveland Indians. And they were Francisco Lindor and Chisenhall. And there are these two infielders that were very, very highly regarded by the, the book that Dan just showed. And every single, every single scouting Report said that those two guys, Lonnie Chisenhall and Francisco Lindor, are going to be the face of the franchise. If you had bought the minor league cards and especially the signed cards like Dan is talking about, and you had held them to today, your Francisco Lindor card, he is now one of the best players in baseball, it would have gone through the roof. Yeah, you would have had an amazing return on investment. You probably could have bought at 50 and then now be 500 or 5,000. I mean, I mean, you had an amazing return on investment. Lonnie Chisenhall got hurt and is out of baseball. It, you're, you're, you're, it. You would be worth less than what you bought it for at this point because no one even knows who Lonnie Chisenhall is. He was, he was hot for like a minute. We called him Lonnie Baseball in Cleveland.

He had one.

He was great when he was healthy.

Oh, he was great. And he smoked left handed pitching. He was great. But he's out of baseball now. He's 31. He got hurt. He retired. Yeah, and so that's the speculation part of this. That's where if you guess right, your turn on investment is unbelievable. If you guess wrong, you lose and you're out 50 bucks.

You know, great examples, Jose Fernandez, like that was a great example there. But Jose Fernandez, the guy died like folks, the guy died and luckily, you know, I sold before he even, you know, made his major league debut. But, you know, the guy died in a boating accident. And again, if you're buying stock into this player, there's a potential something could happen. We've seen top prospects in the past five years pass away because of freak accidents. You know, whether it be automobile or just, you know, drug use or whatever it might be. Make sure you do your background research. It doesn't happen very often. It's quite rare that something like that does happen. But, you know, anything in the scouting report suggests that, you know, maybe this individual is having a hard time with personal matters, then fare away. That's, that's increasing your risk in a particular, particular player. And there's plenty of minor league players that you can invest in to make the same kind of money, if not.

More So I don't mean to be morbid here, but is it fair to say that Jose Fernandez, now being deceased, that card might be worth more now?

You know, I actually just recently looked into, I was just kind of curious and you know, I, I don't know if they're worth more, but I'D say they're still worth money for sure, because there is definitely kind of a collector base that, that follows that. However, you know, he only pitched, I think, maybe three or four years. There were a great three or four years. But it's not like this guy's going to slip into the hall of Fame for, you know, pitching less. Yeah.

Yeah. So I wouldn't say if you are looking to. To invest in deceased players that did not play more than 10 years, that's a tricky market. I would highly suggest it's just too volatile.

It's too.

Speculation runs through the roof, and it's really not somewhere you want to be placing your bets.

So. So your, your game is to buy them. Buying the minor league signed cards, and you're betting on the player being good enough to make the major leagues and have solid careers, and you're selling them as soon as they basically kind of popped in the market is that, you.

Know, in some cases, we're selling them before they even make their major league debut, maybe even before they reach double Triple A. You know, we're just watching the dollar sign.

All right.

We want to make sure. It's crazy. So story about eight or nine years ago, I was investing the guy named Daniel Vogelbach. He's the first baseman DH for the Seattle Mariners now. And, and this was back, I think, when I was like maybe 19, I bought a big position in Daniel Vogel. And you know, the guy.

He hit, it was. It was like four straight games with a home run and then five straight games and then six straight games and then nine straight games of the home run. And everyone on the forums, everyone all over the place, he wasn't a top rated prospect, but everyone saw that and everyone was kind of freaking out because he already had a great power rating. And so, you know, naturally his card spiked and he was only in single A. And so I ended up just selling my entire lot, entire lot. And I made great, great money. I was very fortunate on that. But I sold him what I told him. When he was in single A, he wasn't even close to the majors. But you got to be. It's just like stocks. You got to know when you got to know when to leave. And you can't be like, be emotionally invested in players because you might need to stick with them for a little while. But understand that there is good money to be made within a year, within. Within a single year doing it this way. You know, if you're looking to speculate on players long term, then like with Mike Trout, you Know, if you, if you want to hold on to him to see where things went, or Manny Machado, see where things go, you can do that. But, you know, be warned, you're probably going to be in it for a while and you might not make nearly as much money as you think.

Okay, so. So where you were going originally was you were showing Prospect America and how that's kind of your, your guidebook that, your bible that you use to do all of your scouting, to do all of your looking through where the next up and coming players are. So how are you making buying decisions off that?

Yeah, so, you know, the buy cycle typically is. You want to start looking at players during the off season because that's when fewer people are actually looking to buy and prices are typically cheaper. So you want to be buying, you know, between like November and late January.

That's when if the season shut down into April.

Exactly. Or if there's a pandemic and you're in quarantine, Prospect.

So right now is an exception. It's a great time to buy because there's potentially not going to be a season and you know, for minor league years specifically, you know, that's a whole different can of worms.

I see.

Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense.

And so right now they might lose an entire year of development and that's huge for prospect. And you might be able to find some good prices and we've been able to find some good prices and we've been buying now, but typically you want to buy between November in late January, and that's when you're going to find the best prices. And the prospect handbook usually comes out in February. And the cool thing, though is unless they're drafted in June or, you know, when the prospect handbook hasn't updated, you can typically use the handbook from the previous year to find what players you want to invest in in Bowman Chrome for the following year. And, you know, good sources. Every week during the minor league season, Baseball America, they send out this hot list of players that might. Players specifically that have done really well, kind of improved, that have impressed them. And that is a great meter. That's a great way to follow what's going on in the minor leagues out some of the players that you're mostly invested in. And that's a great way to find trending players.

So first, are you like making a. Are you making like a watch list out of your out of Prospect America at the beginning of the season and then tracking their rankings throughout the rest of the year when they're released on A weekly basis. Is that kind of what you're doing?

Yeah. So, you know, what I'll do is I'll go through my prospect handbook. I'll start highlighting players in each organization that I really think are attractive, and then I'll go to ebay and I'll type in each one of those names, 150 names, whatever it might be, to see if they have Bowman Chrome, specifically Bowman Autogas or Bowman Chrome cards. And then I'll highlight those, and then we'll note the price, the starting price, and then we'll go in and try to figure out which players to invest in based on the price.

Because, again, looking for a mismatch there are you, like, looking at kind of, okay, this guy's trading for 30 bucks, and then you're going to get to get a base price, and then you notice that someone is ranked just as highly as the guy trading for 30 bucks, but all of his cards are selling for five bucks.

Right.

Those mismatches, is that kind of how you're playing this?

Yeah. So, you know, we're looking for either players that don't have enough data to suggest they deserve the ranking they have or are outside the top 100. So each year, mlb.com used to be top 50, now they come out with the top 100 list. And that's a list that everyone, all collectors, all baseball fanatics, all fantasy baseball players, I'm sorry, fantasy owners look at, to speculate on who might be the next big thing. And so we're looking for players that could potentially join that list the following year. And Diego Cartaya, the player that I showed previously, you know, again, he's so young. He's so young that he has not been able to really showcase his full potential to scouts. And the initial reviews that we've, you know, discussed in Baseball America have been. Have been fantastic. So I'm speculating that that player, you know, next year, given the graduation of some of the top prospects and his potential rise to fame within prospect ranks, will then yield a much higher price in the following year or during the season, you know, depending on how hot it gets. This, this is.

This is a good question that Curtis posted. He's asking between, okay, once you know who you're looking for, are you buying packs of cards or are you buying the rare cards? Now, I know you haven't said anything about buying packs of cards, so I know that you're looking for individual cards and that's why you're going to ebay to buy them. But minor league cards are Rare just among, like, just on their own. So is that a, is that specific to the Bowman brand or how is it that you're going out and finding the minor league cards?

You're just going to ebay and looking at these names. What, what else?

Yeah, so this is actually a great question. And you know, for, for me, I never touch packs, do not buy packs, do not, do not, do not, do not. So for packs, it's a total lottery. Even if you're buying a case, you know, because case cases of Bowman Chrome Prosper, the prospect edition or the draft edition, those will yield only prospect autographs. So, you know, if you were looking to get or buy packs, those are the ones you'd want. However, you know, a lot of times you're not even getting, you're not even getting 10% of your money back off of it. You know, a case of, you know, a case of eight, eight boxes for twelve dollars. Better off taking that twelve hundred dollars and investing specifically in cars. You want, you know, it's, you know, again, go back to the stock idea. You want to go directly to what you want. You want to buy specific stocks that you're passionate about that you think will do well. Never. I, I personally, I personally would not pull the dice on packs. I just, and you can even, you know, honestly, if you want to, if you want to test it. And a lot of what I do is go online and there's box breaks where people on YouTube will go through cases of these and open them and show you the cards they get. And you can, you can look on ebay. Oh, you know, we get an orange refractor. How much is that on ebay? And you can actually tally it up because you know how much you paid for it and see what the kind of return is. And, and that's a great resource as well. Going on YouTube and letting other people open the boxes, open the packs and, and you evaluate the price for the product based on that. And just based on what I've seen over the years is you do not get your money back unless you get really lucky. Yeah.

So you're going after, you're picking the individuals going over to ebay, buying Bowman autographs specifically on the prospects that you believe have a chance of breaking out. And you're, you're entering your position based on the mismatch between the price, price and the value that you think the prospect has relative to the rest of the market. Yeah, typically fair summary.

Yeah, that's pretty typical of what, you know, what I do here and what Friends of mine do as well. You know, you're looking for the best deals, like in any business scenario, looking for the best deals. What can I make the most, you know, money off of investment wise, where can I place my money and make a return? And for baseball, you know, again we're talking about Bowman Chrome so you can do the non autograph route. It's the same concept of what we're talking about in regards to autographs. It's just probably going to yield less money because people want the autographs, they want the first year autographs and that's where the premium is paid. And for me, I'm looking to double, triple my money within a reasonable amount of time so that I can reinvest and get new cards for a new season and just continue to cycle that money. And that's something you need to keep in mind as well. Unless you're looking to play the long game, you know, which is a whole.

Different ballgame, but you're flipping season to season. You're, you're in and out in one to two seasons, which, which is really interesting. Let me ask you, when you're entering into this Dan, how much money should you be willing to lose to be able to give this a fair shot?

Yeah, I mean, I think it really depends on your appetite for risk. So everyone's budgets are different. I think me, you know, I think I started with you know, just maybe $100. That was it, maybe $100. And I went out there and I really, I hit the books hard. There's so many great resources. You know, MLB.com comes out with their top 100 prospect list and it's very detailed, all the scouting ranks and you can figure out who's what and you know, or if you're really, if you feel comfortable with it, maybe up that to $5,000 and start investing in very high grade stuff like the, you know, we're talking about refractor variations earlier and so we'd be looking at the lowest number variables which is like the red refractor which is number to 5 or the orange which is number to 25, etc. So it really depends on your appetite for risk and how confident you are with the player. You know, for me I really now that I'm super comfortable with, I've been doing it over a decade. You know, I've got more money invested in it now. But you know, it is, it is, it is a hobby. It's not something I do full time, but it's definitely a good way to make Money, if you know what you're doing.

There's an interesting question that was posted. What crashed the sports card market and could it happen again? And first of all, was there, was there a, was there a major 2012 crash that I don't know about, that this is being referenced? Or.

Yeah, you know, it's, I feel like it's a good question. I, you know, I think again, when, when we talk about people's wealth and how they're diversifying their portfolios, right. Usually the first thing people do when they have excess amounts of income is invest in the stock market, right. And then maybe into gold or they might do, you know, different assets. And baseball is probably like the fourth or fifth thing they're thinking about, unless it's a hobby. And I feel like the price of cards fluctuates based on how much additional income people have. And we've been in a bull market where we're technically in a bear market right now, but we've been in a bull market for really, you know, the past 10 plus years, right. So, you know, cards. But really all that side income that, the income that people had that, you know, were already invested in the stock market, already invested in gold. Are you investing these different assets? We're putting into bitcoin, we're putting into trading cards, we're putting into basketball, whatever it might be. And so right now is kind of that resurgence. So there's been a resurgence really in the past five or six years of sports cards investing in those. And what causes crashes in those markets are right now is a great example. We're all being quarantined.

This year. And if they can't play naturally, you're going to see a lot of these car prices drop. But that just means, you know, again, Warren Buffett, you know, buy when there's fear in the market. And you got to do that. You got to make sure, you got to bite your tongue and just do it. If you have a good, you know, if you're passionate about it, you, you think you've done enough research and you feel good about it, put a little bit of money into it and see what happens. And you know what, Honestly, this is the best advice I can give you. If you put in $100 and you lose 50 your first year, $50 is the price of that education of learning about the market. And really, I mean, that's a great price to pay for, for some really solid education on how to make money, how the markets function and, and where you can maybe, you know, look to do better next year.

I used to play cards with my, with my grandmother. This is like a weekly kind of thing that I used to do. And we would, we'd play into the, you know, wee hours of the night for her, which was like 8:30. And when she would inevitably win and take my 60 cents, she would say, you see, that's what it costs to have that much fun.

That's great. But it's true, though, you know, I feel like people don't realize that is that, you know, if you lose money in stocks, if you lose money in crypto, you know, that's the price of, you know, of education. I mean, how did you pay for college? You know, thousands. And you got to understand through life and especially in sports cards or investments, you're going to lose money. And don't, don't be kicking yourself. I lost tons of money on sports cards at different points, but I also made a lot. Yeah, lost. I learned. And it made me a better investor and it allowed me to be a little bit more critical on my investments.

I've got to, I've got to echo this because I've been trading options for about six months and I've about broke even. And I'm having a great time getting better at looking at the patterns and figuring out. And then this week, I haven't traded at all during all of the volatility, and I placed two bets on things that I thought were sure things. And I got crushed. And so I was like, okay, I still have more to learn. But it's one of those things where once you learn the skill set, you have a skill set that is with you for the rest of your life that costs you a few hundred or a few thousand dollars and some time of having fun to learn.

Right?

You know, I know SEO for that reason. I know copywriting for that reason. I, I'm learning baseball cards for that reason. So all, all of these are way that, you know, I got, I got an email today from somebody who was upset that they could not cancel their membership inside the 1% and keep their access because times were hard. And it was like, dude, you have all these skill sets that you could be applying that you could be learning, that you're just choosing not to. But at times like this, if you know how to flip baseball cards or last week we talked about doing retail arbitrage, flipping on Amazon or making masks.

And selling them on Etsy. You know, it's stuff like that. You know, get creative, guys. This is, you know, you got to understand, this is A prime time for people to really get involved in industry, get involved in collecting, get involved in business. This is a fantastic time to do that. You know, I mean, we don't know what the future looks like. But if you do have that passion, you do have that desire to really get aggressive with certain investments, you know, now's the time to really start looking into that and doing research.

So just to play here, I'm curious, Dan, would you share some of your really, really big wins that you've had trading baseball cards?

Yeah. So, I mean, there's been a few times where like I've gone like yard sale or been through, actually a funny one. This is, this is probably one of my best stories. So it doesn't actually have to do. I love autographs. So I collect a lot of different autographs. Autograph posters, autograph, you know, baseball cards, different autograph, you know, baseballs or whatever it might be. And this was more of an autograph baseball story, but it's still a great one. So I was at my friend, I was maybe 13 years old, 14 years old at the time, and I was all into autographs and figuring out what was what. And I was at my friend Matt's house and I went upstairs. Huge Yankee fan, right? And his grandfather had unfortunately just passed away, so they had received a bunch of items from him. And he had some baseballs and they were hanging on the shelf. And so I walked up to his room and I was looking around and he's got a Jeter autograph, baseball, Paul o', Neill, Roger Clemens. And then I saw this one, this one old looking ball. And I said, matt, where'd you get that? And, you know, he said, his grandfather passed away and they found it in the attic and they, you know, they took it and you know, his dad gave it to him, didn't think anything about it. So I said, hey, can I look at it? And he said, yeah, yeah, you know, pick it up, check it out. So I looked at it and I was like, matt, do you know what this is? And he was like, no. And I was like, dude, that's Pee Wee Race, that's Jackie Robinson. You have historic signed baseball sitting on your shelf all dusted up. You have no idea what's going on. So now they got it. I think they got it appraised and it's sitting in a bank safe. So that was.

I should have traded him for it. But I was a good friend, you.

Know, I thought for sure you were about to just say the plot of the sand lot.

I know. Right.

That's where I thought this was going. You were just repeating the whole plot.

Oh, I know it's, you know, but that's the kind of stuff you get involved with when you, when you start to really, you know, open your. Broaden your horizons in autographs in sports and memorabilia. And, you know, that was one of the most exciting stories I've ever had. I mean, you don't, you don't see Jackie Robinson's autograph really, on anything.

He's right.

It's a very hard autograph to find. It was really cool seeing it in that context and being able to, you know, discover it, you know, 14 years old for them and, and so. But, you know, Jose. I'd say Jose Fernandez. That was probably one of my biggest trades all time. I mean, to go from a 300 card, selling them each for, you know, $1200 just nine months later, within nine months. I mean, that's, that's fantastic. You know, there's been a lot of situations where, you know, jerks and profile. Back when he was a top prospect for the Rangers, you know, I bought in about 30, $40 a card, and, you know, that season he was really hyped. I mean, he was just cruising and never made the majors. But I was able to sell for, I thought, you know, $90 a card was, was fine. So I wanted to get out of my investment, get into something else, and ended up making about $60 a card. And, you know, I think I had maybe 10 of his autographed rookie cards. And, you know, there's been a lot of, you know, scenarios like that where I've flipped cards, you know, the season of or the following year and been done pretty well.

So you're, you're avoiding prospects that you see. You feel like the market has priced appropriately. Yeah, you're only buying the prospects that you feel like have the ability to outplay their market. And that's where the, that's where the speculation happens.

Correct. You know, because again, the stock market example is the best one I can give you because it plays exactly like it. You know, Facebook stock. If it's already priced in, it's priced in. You know, you don't want to be buying into a stock where, you know, it's already been priced and there's no money to be made. It's the same thing with baseball autograph rookie cards is you've got to really try to find, you know, those Gunner Henderson's, those Diego Cartiers, Brian Ricaria. So those, those prospects that have the potential to turn your $20 investment into that 3, $400 rookie card, you know, within a reasonable amount of time. And you know, again, you're looking at age. You know, look at age. If the player is younger, yes, there is a lot more risk, but there's also more potential that, you know, they could be something super special, especially if the scouting report kind of suggests that. And that's really what I'm looking for, these younger players that have the potential to be, you know, something special in the minor leagues, make that top 100 chart and really start trending with scouts.

So I want to kind of recap the strategy that I'm hearing so far. So first you're, you're looking at the prospect handbook and kind of, you're keeping tabs. You have basically a watch list, just like you'd have a stock watch list of the players that you're tracking. You then go look up those players on ebay and you're looking for their base Bowman Chrome autographed cards, specifically their first, the, the first year card. And you're getting a price, kind of a lay of the land of the market for each player. And you're looking at what players might be underpriced based on talent, path to the majors, and a few other factors to see if you can buy low on players that have a chance of getting more attention in the marketplace or breaking into the major leagues.

Your sell signals are when you feel like the, the prospect is now properly or overpriced and you're, you're selling, especially if they're breaking into the majors or if they are kind of at their highest point of speculation to the market has really overvalued them. And that's when you're starting to get out. You avoid pitchers. You prefer position players because they have more superstar power.

And if you can afford to get the super rare cards that are, I forget the term you used.

Refractor. Yes. Then those, those, those rarities, those rare types of cards have a higher value as well.

Yes, yes. Especially for people looking to really make more money on their investment. You know, again, like red, orange, green, blue refractors. Those ones, you know, again, Mike Trouts, I think he's got a gold, a gold refractor which is number to 50. Bowman Chrome. His first autograph, Bowman Chrome up on ebay. If you want to buy it, folks, it's $250,000. 50,000, folks, it's expensive.

What could you have bought that for a decade ago?

About a thousand? Yeah, about a thousand.

That's Good.

So, I mean, I just bought a Brian Riccirio last night. Been sniping some auctions, and Brian Rickerio, the Indian shortstop, is red 9.5, graded 9.5 10.

Autographed red refractor number to 5 for $538. That's insane. I don't know, People must have been quarantining hardcore because nobody was online looking at that thing. And to put in perspective, red refractors, almost all of them, sell for at least. At least 1500 to 3000. Almost all of them. Almost. It doesn't even matter the player. They sell for a lot of money. And, you know, if Brian does make the top 100, we could easily see that go to 3,000. Easily.

Interesting.

Yeah. So there's a lot of opportunity, if you guys know that can happen in 12 months. Yes, it could.

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, Dan. What?

What?

Have I not asked you that I should.

Geez, we've covered a lot tonight. Let's see here. I mean, we've covered the grading system. Actually, there is another segment of the market as well, if people want to. To. To kind of less speculate more, get into grading and selling those cards. We didn't really talk about the graded premium.

Okay, tell me, tell me.

So, so what you can do is you can buy a regular Bowman Chrome card and, you know, based on, you know, how it looks, the condition of the card, you can send it into PSA or BGS to get it graded, and then you'll get those grades that we showed earlier. PSA 10 or BGS 9.59, whatever it might be. And depending on the grade of the card, there's. There's multipliers. So if you get a pristine, you know, 10 to 10 card, you know, you might have paid $30 for that card and you paid $15 to get it graded, it comes back pristine. 10, 10. You might be able to sell for 100 immediately. Sell for 100. So that is. That's a huge segment of the market as well. You know, for me, I'm not as big into buying and grading cards because a lot of it. What they do is they'll buy the card under a microscope. They'll make sure that, you know, the surface area is nice, no scratches, corners are good, not dinged. Autograph is pristine. Send it in and hope for the best. And, you know, a lot of times they'll either hold onto the card or just sell it immediately. And I prefer just to buy into those graded cards, the ones that are graded already, kind of skipping the Step of buying the raw card and then sending in for, you know, potential grade that I don't want.

So, so what you're saying is that some people will buy the card that is not graded. Yes, it's signed, but it's not graded. And then they will send it in for the actual grading process and if it comes back high, the value skyrockets. Is that right?

Exactly. And, you know, there's, there's scenarios we're talking earlier in the podcast where, you know, sometimes they might get PSA 9. Really all you want is PSA tens. That's all you want. And if you get a psa, you know, eight or nine, this is excluding older cards, you know, remember that, folks?

Right, right.

Say six, Babe Ruth or, you know, Ty Cobb. You did fine, great for yourself. But for these more modern cards, you really want pristine. So, you know, we're talking about PSA 10 specifically. You want to. That's, that's, that's very investable. And then we're talking for BGs, which is more sought after. Keep that in mind, folks, is BGS is more sought after, in my opinion. It's more sought after and they, they drive the best price. And BGS 9.5 on the face of the card with a 10 autograph is great. Stay away from knives. Unless it's a really, you know, rare low numbered refractor card. Then at that point people care, but they care less because there might be only 5 of that one card or, you know, 10 of that one card. And it's, you know, it's, there's nothing you can do about it. It's, it's rare as it is. But if it's a base auto, where there's thousands in circulation, potentially, you want to make sure you're investing in the highest grade cards you can find, and those will drive premium prices. And there absolutely is an industry of people buying in bulk.

Any player, they don't even care one or Franco, they don't care, they'll buy it at $400. They'll send it in to get graded, they'll come back graded, it'll sell for 800. You know, that's absolutely a mark. And that's absolutely people, you know what people do. But I'm more on the, you know, stock side of it where I invest in a player and, you know, now that I have a little bit more money to spend, I try to spend it on just graded cards because those demand the highest premium.

Well, this is beautiful, Dan.

I'm trying real hard.

I mean, as that's questioning. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that I should have? Oh, man.

I, you know, I think, I think that's, I think we did a pretty good job. I think you, you asked just about everything. There is good work.

I mean, my only regret is that we couldn't do this in person.

I know that would have been great, but.

So we'll have a, we'll have a wine glass after you lose what you want to. Want to lose on keto.

Yes, yes.

And so, and just, just. I guess I'll wrap with this. You believe that the market is low right now because of coronavirus. There's a lot of panic selling. And so you think we might have a dip in the market to where there might be some opportunities to go in and buy low. Correct.

So actually this is, this is probably a good topic to discuss just real quick because this does have a lot to do with when good buying periods are and we're in a unique situation where, you know, there's no sports being played. So right now, based on what I've, what I've seen over the past month, we've been tracking, or I should say I've been tracking the data on sales for just base auto cards, base autograph cards. And there really hasn't been much movement on the, the premium player, the top 100. There has been movement on the cast asides, those players outside of the top 100. However, I have seen a dip in premium card prices because people are less willing to spend again. I bought that Brian Rickerio for 538. That should have been, that should have sold for over a thousand. That easily sold for over a thousand. I've been doing this for 12 years. I have never seen a red software that low and at least you know, for a premium prospect. And yeah, so, you know, there is, we have seen prices drop in for, for different players in these more premium great, premium graded cards, premium ungraded cards that are refractors, that are colored refractors that typically, you know, go for hundreds to thousands of dollars. We are seeing a dip now finally in those car prices. And that's great. Yeah. So good. But the question is, do you think there's going to be a season?

I, I mean, I can't imagine that there would be at this point. I mean, like, I mean, I, I know there are people saying that they'll start at the All Star break and then they'll do a bunch of double headers and I don't know, I don't Know that anybody's going to want to go to games.

Yeah.

So if nobody's going to want to go to games, what's the point? And so, but then there's also the argument of like, what, what, what happens under the collective bargaining agreement in that case? Like, do you pay the players their full salaries? This I have no idea.

Well, you know, the tricky thing is they floated this idea this week that they might use the Arizona facilities to do crowdless baseball starting in May. But again, this is all part of finding a good time to invest is just like the stock market. Looking into the future, trying to look into the future and seeing where things are headed. And I do agree with you. I'm telling you right now, folks, if we're in mid May and this is still a problem and the NBA is not, there's no end in sight. I don't think we're gonna have a season because it's gonna, how long do you think it's gonna take them to ramp back up? Like, honestly, it's gonna be at least a month.

Yeah, at least.

It's gonna be at least a month.

At least.

You know, if they want to start in, you know, July, they gotta be ramping up in June, if not earlier. And is that going to happen? As of right now, I don't think it's gonna happen. You're not gonna play September, you know, just September, in October, part of October and have a 60 game season? I don't see them doing that.

So you don't, you don't think we're gonna have one either?

Oh, I think, I think it's, I think it's, it's, it's, it's getting slim. The chances of us having a season this year and I, I don't, I don't know when the NBA is gonna, you know, pick back up the NHL. They gotta finish up and they gotta restart in September. Yeah. How the heck is that gonna work?

Yeah, so, yeah, so this, this is interesting. And it's also really interesting to see how that will affect the prospect market.

Exactly.

Because you have, if you have a whole year skipped, could go in one of two directions. You could have a year missed of development or you could have teams saying, well, I guess we're rebooting and not sign the older established players and create room for the new prospects to come up. So you could have an accelerated path.

Yes.

You could have a hindered path to the majors and no one really knows which way that's going to go. Probably the, the teams that were going to rebuild are just going to rebuild faster as a result of this.

Well, you know, the scary part about this is we're talking about Francisco Lindor. And the scary part about this is that I think the MLPA came out and said that regardless of whether or not we play baseball this year, it's going to count as a year, which means that Francisco Lindor might not play a single. Mookie Bets might not play a single game for the Dodgers. Red Sox would come out on top, and it would just go right to free agency unless they reset. So that's, you know, that's. That's a scary piece of it. But like you said, you know, we. We might lose an entire year of.

Of.

Of prospect development. I don't know what they're doing behind the scenes. I don't know if they can lift weights. They're not making that much money. So it's not like they, you know, these. A lot of these guys have their own private facilities. And, and so I guess my suggestion for people, again, this isn't, you know, I'm not like a certified pro. This isn't, like, financial advice. But I would say, wait, you guys are really blessed right now. This is the perfect time to have this podcast because right now, we're in the middle of a pandemic that has halted sports. And if this thing goes through the summer, you guys have the next month or two to pick up that prospect handbook, go on ebay, Amazon, wherever, pick it up. You. You guys now have time to read it while the market is shifting down, shifting, so that when you're ready and when you found, you know, prospects that you're into that you think might do well, that you want to speculate on, they're probably going to be at their lowest. They've maybe, yeah, this is a prime opportunity to really get involved and to do your research and to start, you know, really looking into different players and to give that book a good read. Baseball America, folks. Baseball America, the. The prospect handbook, that is. That is your. That is the Holy Grail. That is your bible. That is what you need as a prospector, you know, looking to speculate into this industry.

Well, Dan, I. I've enjoyed this podcast.

As much as any I've ever done, so thank you so much for tickling my dopamine receptors.

You are.

Or talking dirty baseball to me. This was. This was a whole lot of fun. Thanks for hanging out with us.

Thank you for having me. It's been fantastic. And for all you guys looking to get into it, you know, It's a, it's a fun hobby and I really hope, you know, everyone gets into it, has a good time and, you know, make some good money.

If you are a 1% member, we'll be talking about this all month. We'll be tracking players and looking at markets. So feel free to drop names of players that you're, you're looking at in the, in the Facebook group. And if you enjoyed today, please give Dan some hashtags in the comments and we'll see you guys next time. Take care. There are two kinds of people in this world. There are members and non members. If you are enjoying this stuff, you have got to join us inside the 1%. 1% members get access to to our courses on building businesses and investing the profits. They get access to experts who are bringing in lessons on a regular basis, some of the best in the world and they're joining regular calls with myself or members of my team to keep the community growing. The 1% is a community of entrepreneurs who are actively building businesses and investing the profits. And every month you get a community newsletter to see what's going on in your community and what the opportunities are to create the change that you want to see in your world. Join us at capitalism.com the number one that's capitalism.com one.