How To Get To $100M In Ecommerce (Panel)

What's the fastest way to take a brand to $1 million a month? What strategies are working right now in e-commerce? Today I'm gonna sit down with a panel of experts that have all built multimillion-dollar brands, and we're gonna break down the strategies that are working right now. Not the strategies that worked 10 years ago, not the theoretical philosophical things, but what are the tactical things that are taking businesses from zero, in some cases, to $1 million a month and beyond? We're gonna break that down in today's e-commerce panel so that you see a pathway to take your brand from 0 to 7 or even 8 figures. All right, let's talk about what's working in e-commerce right now. I want to start by just going into what's the best tip and the thing that you see working the best in your sector right now. Travis Ziegler, I'm going to start with you. What do you see working on your side of the fence in e-commerce right now?

So the funny thing is, I actually accidentally did this back in 2020, not knowing what I was doing. But what is working in my world right now is actually mergers and acquisitions. We are finding brands to pin on to our current brands that are making our EBITDA explode. So instead of going out there and launching a new product, we're actually buying the product instead. And so that's been a huge, huge unlock for us is to buy EBITDA and buy profit. Instead of just building something from scratch.

Why is that so hot or timely right now versus 3 years ago?

It's, it's, it's been forever. It's just I never knew that world. And so I've really dug into that because I have a goal to get to $10 million in EBITDA and sell my business for $100 million. And I realized that the route I was going previously by building from scratch wasn't going to cut it. So I immersed myself in the mergers and acquisitions world after working for private equity. And I realized there's just an easier way to build up a business. And that was it, was buying profit instead of building the profit.

Well, I would add to that point that right now is a really interesting time to be doing that in e-commerce because we're on the other side of this big boom that happened in e-commerce. But now valuations on a lot of e-commerce companies are really low. So it's an especially interesting time to be pursuing M&A. Ryan Rigney, let me come over to you. On the TikTok Shop side of things, What are you seeing work in e-commerce right now?

I think the most timely application of AI and e-commerce is using them together. Like in, in particular, Claude Code has an update that rolled out recently and what you can do and what I'm doing is actually using that, um, combined with like Kallo data and any of these sources of data where you can actually pull all of the top pieces of content for any competitor that's relevant to what you're selling. And you can pull all of those in automatically. So Claude Code will actually take control of your computer, go in there, even if you don't have an API, download them all, combine them, and then it can summarize what types of content are working in your, your space and give you like very clear playbooks on what exactly to do. And I think that's the easiest way to grow an e-com brand, period, right now is doing what works and figuring it out quickly.

And are you doing that by telling it who to crawl and who do you— who to go out to? Like what? What, what data are you giving it to figure out what type of content to have it script for you?

So AI is only as intelligent as what it knows about what you're doing. So I can give it access to all of my Slack channels. My, you know, some people don't like giving it access to this, but I'm like, whatever, just take it. You're going to get it eventually anyway. Here's all of my Slack convos. You know, here's my, here's my SharePoint with all the files, my brand deck. Here's what I sell. Here's my landing page. Here's my product. Go out there and plan, tell me the top 10 competitors on TikTok right now that are relevant. It'll go find them and it'll tell you, okay, here's the 10. Does this look good to you? And then it can pull all of the content for all those competitors that's performing well and give you a summary at, you know, a genius level. So I think it's a pretty, pretty timely tip.

Are you, are you using that for going out and creating content? Are you doing that to you specifically for creating content?

Content strategy. And you can also use the intel that you gather from this to feed the creators that you have that make content. It's like, here's the top scripts you can use. Or you could take that one step further and feed it into an AI and have an AI generate the content using like LipSync or— these things are pretty popular right now as well.

That is absolutely beautiful. All right, Jeff Lieber, let me come over to you. What do you see being the hot trend right now that you see working in e-commerce?

Yeah, I think right now on Amazon, and also works on your e-com website, on your Shopify or whatever you have, is just, uh, testing raising your prices. Like, a lot of clients come to us and they haven't raised their prices in, you know, 2 years. They've set their prices 2, 3 years ago, um, and you'd be surprised how quickly it can, you know, open up the world for you with, uh, having better margins. And so, uh, we had one brand that you know, they were at like $20 grand a month and they were barely breaking even. And so we just raised their prices, you know, we notched it up to 25% and their conversion rates didn't go down. It gave us way more ad spend and budget to spend. Uh, it just, you know, we had so much more money to spend and scale. The conversion rate didn't drop hardly at all. And, uh, and then now we're over 6 figures a month, like 6 months later. Um, so we, you know, it's just a really— it takes 2 minutes to just go, go test one of your products, raise the price and see what happens. Yeah, it's probably, you know, it's an old one, but it works.

Why do you think that was so impactful for that specific brand? Was it because it gave them more margin to run advertising? Did it attract a different type of customer? Why did that change? I mean, that's only like— it could only be a few dollars in some cases. So why was that so impactful for that brand to go from $25K a month to a 7-figure run rate.

So before they came to us at the price that they had, they had said it, they're like, okay, we have just enough margin to make money. But like, I was like, okay, cool, but can we run, you know, we've got Prime Day coming up, can we run promotions, can we run discounts? And they're like, well, you know, maybe like 5% off. And I'm like, well, that, that's not, you know, Amazon customers want to see, you know, typically 10, 15% for those major holidays or more. Um, and then we just, we couldn't scale the ads because there was no margin. So I You know, by raising it, it just opened up all of these levers for us to grow. So we were able to do 5 different things and scale them, which I think compounded for them in that example.

Yeah, that is beautiful. I think the temptation for most e-commerce entrepreneurs is if you want to increase prices, or if you want to increase volume, you drop prices. I say that's a race to the bottom. If you want to increase sales, you should increase your prices. So I'm really glad you said that. I want to emphasize what Jeff just shared about raising prices. You're gonna hear this be a theme throughout the rest of this conversation, and it's something that I very much believe in, which is you've got to have enough margin to be able to run a lot of advertising. I know that sounds basic, but in the e-commerce world, it's very common for people to drop their price in order to try to get more customers. And I think the opposite is the best way forward. If you want to increase your prices, increase your price because it allows you to have more bullets in the chamber and more strategies that you can use because you can afford to run effective advertising. If you want to see how we build high margin brands, you can see what we do over at Capitalism.com/bootcamp. Now that we've got our, our ninja tips out of the way, let's do some proper 30-second intros. Travis, would you share a little bit about what you guys do and the types of businesses that you're acquiring?

Yeah, I'm Dr. Travis Ziegler. I'm a partner in a private equity fund called Freedom Brands. I also have a marketing agency called Profitable Pineapple Ads, hence the pineapple hat, and we do Amazon ads, PPC, DSP, and then we also do TikTok management as well. We are looking for supplement brands and for humans and for animals in the $500,000 to $1 million in profit rate.

Beautiful.

Thank you. And Ryan, you are my go-to expert on TikTok Shop. Give a 30-second overview of what you guys do, right?

So I'm a partner with Stay Viral. I also have a brand that I run that sort of inspired me creating this, I would say, agency to recruit content creators at scale and deploy them for brands to grow them on social, particularly TikTok Shop.

Um, and can you brag on the brand a little bit? Because it's, uh, kind of a cool big brand.

My brand is— it's okay, it's not that big. Maji Superfoods, you know, we We're not as big as a lot of other people, but I've been running that for like 10 years.

He is being humble. It's a great brand. Jeff Lieber, give a quick 30-second overview. You're my most recommended Amazon expert. Give a quick overview of what you guys do at Turnkey.

Thanks. Yeah, we're Turnkey Product Management. We've been doing it about 10 years now. And yeah, we work with, you know, our specialty is Amazon full-service management, you know, mainly brands that are doing close to 6 figures a month. And then we try to scale them as quickly as we can to the next level. And, you know, describe this as a boutique agency. We've got about 20 team members, so we're not huge and we try to be really selective with our clients. And yeah, it's been a great ride here.

Let's talk about creators and content and TikTok Shop. I want to talk about the stuff that is really the gasoline on the fire that we've seen over the last 2 years or so. Still some of the best white space in e-commerce. Ryan Rigney, what are you seeing happening in the TikTok Shop world right now, and how are you finding and partnering with the creators that are moving the needle?

I wouldn't say that TikTok Shop space has changed too much over the last, um, 8 to 12 months. It's really been just driven by get as many posts as you can up, and the brands need to be running GMB Max ads. That might be the main change that has happened in the last year where it's like very, uh, your success is very dependent on how many pieces of content you have going up per day and are you willing to spend behind those pieces of content with GMB Max ads, which is essentially TikTok's like auto-advertising. It picks up the pieces of content that have authorization for ads, which should be most of them, and it diverts spend to the best ones. Um, so that's the TikTok shop.

So side.

I'm also seeing a lot more like scaled AI content in the recent months on Instagram, TikTok, which I could talk about later as well.

But now when you, when you say creating as much as possible, does that mean getting as many creators as possible? Does that mean getting them to do as much creative as possible? Like what, what's, what's the play behind that?

Most, most brands I know that have any volume, they have their own creator communities. Where it's usually like a Discord community. There's other ways to do it too, but you have a central meeting point where people can get strategy and resources and access to your team where they actually want to keep posting for you. There is a lot of volume in just giving out as many samples as you can too. There's automated tools like Yuka AI that can help you do that. It's kind of in some respects like whoever is the winner, they take all because they have the biggest budget to send more samples. So building a relationship with people that can post more regularly is essential, I would say, for like especially newer brands that are trying to break out on the platform.

Now, you take a lot of, of focus into nurturing those relationships with creators, and they're not one-off posts. You're really— you're building a long-term relationship. Could you share a little bit about what these creators are earning and how bought in they are? Because the way that you do it is very different than how a a lot of other TikTok shop supposed experts do it. And some of these creators are making bank by serving as affiliates for recommending other people's e-commerce products.

Well, I learned, I learned a lot from learning e-com through you indirectly, I would say. And I applied that to this space where, you know, there's a lot of new entrepreneurs, you could say people that want to make their first dollar online and affiliate marketing. Is how they're doing it and we're helping teach them, you know, you can post and you can get a sale and you can get a commission. Here's how you do it. We're teaching them from the ground sometimes, or it's somebody that's been trying and they haven't had the success. They start getting their first success with us and then we're like, you know, here's a couple of brands we can connect you with. We're going to pay you starting as like if they're brand new beginner, they have no experience, we're going to— it's about $10 per post. It comes out to about $300 a month. And then they get commission on any results they get. So they have basically infinite upside and then they have a fixed amount that they're gonna get just for trying. And the brand is almost always gonna end up on top because $300 for, you know, 30 posts that you can spark, it's pretty hard to lose. It's pretty hard to lose money on that even if the creator's new because they're getting trained and they have like, here's like the minimum you have to have for quality before you can start posting and getting paid for it. And you know, we have some safeguards for that sort of thing. So.

And what is the most amount of money you've seen a creator make as an affiliate doing this?

Uh, ones that I personally know have made over $100,000 in a month. Um, there are some that have made like probably over a million a month, I would say, like rare cases. But I, I know a kid in Los Angeles that we taught him from scratch, and I think he had like a $15,000 day. Um, his—

those are his commissions.

Yeah.

So what does that mean in terms of volume for the brand that he's promoting?

Uh, you know, millions in GMB a month.

Um, the cheese and crackers.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the brands that we work with directly are usually like in the $200,000 to $600,000 per month range. Um, $200,000 to $600,000 per month. Um, but you know, the big brands, sometimes if they go, they get lucky and they do enough reps, they'll get they'll get lucky and they'll have, you know, a $50,000 day. I've seen it.

Beautiful. Now, Jeff, how, how important is Amazon's version of this, the Amazon Creator Program? And quite honestly, I have not poked around in this at all, but TikTok Shop gets all of the attention when it comes to creator programs in e-commerce. And I know Amazon has at least dipped their toe in this, but I know very little, but a little about Amazon's Creator Program? How big of an opportunity is it? Is it something that brand owners should focus on?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, Amazon, you know, they're the everything store, right? They want to take over every, every possible, uh, industry and niche. And, you know, obviously TikTok Shop has become a big, big competitor to them. Um, and so I think they've really put a focus on Amazon Creator Connections and expanded it and made it a lot easier. So yeah, it's working really well. We run it for pretty much almost all of our clients. Um, basically like how it works is, um, it's Amazon Creator Connections, and, uh, within the portal you can basically find commission-only, uh, you know, creators and influencers. And, uh, so it's like very low risk basically, so you can like run it as a system. Um, you can, you know, typically the commissions you, you'll pay, we recommend between 10 and 30%. Uh, higher attracts better creators, right? Um, but most of them are just commission-only. Occasionally, you know, as you're messaging them, some will want to do a fixed fee or an additional payment amount. But you just evaluate those as they come in and look, you know, how successful are they? How engaging are they? You know, is this a good fit for my brand? And, you know, it's a good foot in the door to negotiate those relationships. But what's nice is like, it's really easy just to like, you know, send out lots of messages to all these creators that just commission only. Like, that's the simplest way to start. And yeah, I mean, we had one client that they did we basically set like a $15,000 budget. That's what's cool too, you can set budgets so it doesn't go like out of control if you don't want it to. So we did a $15K budget and it drove over $150,000 in sales from a variety of different, um, creators through, through that network. So, uh, it's, uh, definitely it's not too hard to test it, uh, and highly recommend, you know, checking out for your brand for sure.

Is the total opportunity size in Amazon's Creator Program as big as TikTok Shop? I mean, obviously Amazon doesn't have the same lift that, that TikTok is going to because something can go viral on there, but what, what is the total opportunity size of Amazon's response to TikTok Shop?

Yeah, I wouldn't say that the, the opportunity is quite as big where like TikTok can go viral, super viral overnight, like kind of the cases that Ryan said, right? Um, so that's not quite there yet, but Amazon, you know, they're constantly trying to focus more and more on it and growing and it's improving all the time. So I think, you know, the earlier you can get in and try it, like see how it goes for your brand. And as Amazon continues to, you know, make it even bigger, I think it can continue to take off. So it's a no-brainer to at least test it out. But for certain niches, it can, it can be a lot bigger and better than others for sure.

Forgive my ignorance, but in the Amazon Creator Program, is this the, the affiliate, the creator going out and posting it on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and linking back to Amazon? Or are they posting it somewhere else? Help me understand where the creative goes out when the creator signs up to promote your brand.

Yeah, they'll get their trackable links and they can put it, you know, in a variety of places. So sometimes it's on the actual, you know, they might post it on TikTok or different social channels. Sometimes they'll write blogs, you know, email, email blasts. So it can be used for a variety of use cases, actually.

Okay. So it's more of a general holistic affiliate program than being native to the platform, whereas TikTok Shop is— you're going to post the content on TikTok, you're going to link to TikTok Shop, the checkout's going to happen on TikTok, the payments are going to happen on TikTok. Amazon is— obviously doesn't have a social media platform that's big that's attached to it. So it's their holistic affiliate program. Is that a fair summary?

Yeah, for sure. Good job. Yeah.

Okay. Now, Travis, I know you're doing some kind of ninja traffic stuff with blogs, and I think creators are involved in this, and you're seeing some pretty good ROI on some outside traffic. Would you break down the strategy that you're using with some of your clients right now?

I like how you call it ninja, but it's been around for like 20 years since you started in the internet days. It's simply just a landing page, and we send traffic to the landing page, and then the landing page just goes over to Amazon to buy through an attribution link. And that landing page is around the problem that the product solves. I call it my perpetual sales machine. And because once you get this going, and once you get a landing page or a blog post or a sales page, whatever you want to call this page, once you get that trafficked, a lot of traffic going to it, and then once you get it converting traffic buying when they go over to Amazon. It just becomes this machine that just keeps printing money. And a lot of people think this is a dying method, but landing pages and sales pages and blog posts are still alive now more than ever. ChatGPT and all the AIs hasn't replaced it yet, and we're still seeing just as many clicks today as we were 5 years ago, as we were 10 years ago. And this is industry agnostic because I have done this for my practices when I was when I had brick and mortar stores, we were doing the same strategy. I've done it for charities, I've done it for Amazon businesses, I've done it for law firms, I've done it for a wide variety of industries. And it, it works because you're focusing around problem-based marketing. And so a quick example of that is we had an acid reflux company, we sold acid reflux supplements. We had a blog called The GERD Chef. GERD stands for gastroesophageal reflux disease. And so everybody we knew that was going to that website around GERD, acid reflux, heartburn, we knew they'd like our product. So what we did is we put display advertising all over this website, but we didn't do like Google AdSense or anything. We put our own product as the display advertising, as the banner ads, as the pop-ups, and then they'd click an attribution link to go buy on Amazon. So that shot external traffic over to Amazon, which increases your rank, which increases your profits. But then we can also build an email list from that as well. And so it's going back to the basics of what used to work 10 years ago.

Yeah. And where is that outside traffic coming from? I mean, it's one thing to spin up a, spin up a website and put, you know, put an email capture on there, put display ads on there. Great. But where's the traffic coming from?

Yeah, that's a great question. And this goes back to both strategies that we just talked about, especially the TikTok shop strategy. Most people post something or expect organically things just to work, and nobody is paying attention to you that much that if you just post something, it's just going to magically get traffic. And so what I like to do is called a push-pull method. So pulling is when you are pulling organic traffic— that's creators' organic reach, that's these blog posts' organic reach, which might, might not be much— but then I like to push traffic to it too, and that's through advertising. And so what we'll do is a Google ad to the blog post and then the blog post over to Amazon. Same thing with TikTok and what Ryan was saying. A creator creates an organic video that may or may not get reach, but then when you put GMB Max ads behind it, it gets massive reach and you create virality with your blog post. You create virality with that creator's video as a result of pushing ads first, and then the organic will come later as a result of you pushing ads first.

This makes my heart so happy. It's like it's 2012 all over again. I, I, I just like, well, I mean, I, the way that I made my first, you know, my first 6 figures as an internet marketer was I put up a shoddy little website with articles on it and I sold things in those articles and I ran Google traffic to those landing pages. Some people clicked on those links and they bought things through my affiliate link. And essentially you were running the exact same thing. Exact same playbook, but sending that over to Amazon so you get the benefit of outside traffic. And so Amazon rewards you. Is that correct?

That's 100% correct. And I learned it from you 11 years ago. But here's the, here's the key part. Most people focus on product-based keywords. So like if I'm selling an acid reflux supplement, they're going after acid reflux supplement, whereas I'm focusing on problem-based keywords, GERD, heartburn, acid reflux. When you focus on the problem, the cost per click is like $0.10 or less versus product, which is going to be $1 to $10 to $20 depending on your industry.

And this is mostly Google AdWords traffic for search intent traffic that you're sending. What are you seeing as the cost of that right now? Because it's come in waves and now with Gemini and ChatGPT, I really haven't heard many people talking about the cost of Google Ads right now. So what? What do they look like right now?

It was 10 years ago.

It was 5 years ago.

Oh my goodness.

It's still so dirt cheap when you focus on the problem. The problem that is so key is focusing on the problem. And we just sent 2,000 clicks to our website last week for $200. I mean, it was nothing.

All right. I want to highlight this moment here because you're seeing this come up a lot. External traffic. I got into e-commerce after I had 5 years of internet marketing experience. So this was sort of second nature to me. I noticed that if I built a small audience and I nurtured that audience and I sent that over to the platform that I was selling on, that I got the best of all worlds. And most e-commerce entrepreneurs do not think about that at all. They just think about maximizing their exposure on the platform. Here's how we generate external traffic. We create content that can be whatever content you want. And send them over to an email capture. And then we build relationships with the people who opt in. Sometimes we build relationships with people via Facebook group. Gosh, in the old days I used to just call people or email people manually. It looks a lot like work, but it's building the relationships with that core group of customers that are going to buy from you regardless of where you are taking your sale. If you have a small group of people that actually care to hear from you and then you send them over to the platform platform where you are taking the order, that is just enough external traffic to get the algorithm to work in your favor. This is beautiful. This is, this is making my heart so happy because all of us here have been in marketing or e-commerce for, for more than 10 years. I think I've known each of you for more than 10 years. So what are you seeing different today in the marketplace versus 5 to 10 years ago, and what principles haven't changed at all? Ryan, you're probably most on the cutting edge since you're involved in the newest platform being TikTok Shop. So what are you seeing that is different from 5 years ago and what hasn't changed at all?

What hasn't changed at all? I mean, the pro— the product and the quality of the product still key for customer retention and your reputation. I think that's the thing that won't change. A lot of the other things have changed, I would say. Like the AI tools we have available now, like if you're not like using Claude on a daily basis to help you work, it's— I just, I honestly don't know what to say because it's like you have, you have infinite superpowers if you know how to use it, and it takes like a couple days to figure it out. Um, for marketing, for product research, for literally anything. You can clean up your entire company's workspace and build your whole bureaucratic, you know, tree and everything that you never had the time to do in a couple minutes, like just by telling it the right thing. So it's like, it's like if you're not going to take advantage of, you know, or cleaning up your house with the automations first, that's a good thing to do. Figuring out one marketing channel that you can automate or systematize with this where you can run it on a schedule. Like there's so many examples of what you can do. Like, um, you know, your Google Ads, you could plug it into Google Ads and have it run your Google Ads on a schedule for you. You could have it do research for you in that, like, it's not even that hard to do anymore.

Well, are you using it to go in and manage your Google AdWords account?

Yeah, you can. And I do as well as Travis.

Do you do that with your, with, with your old school principles ninja strategy? That's just what I'm going to call it. You call it my perpetual sales machine. I call it your old school principle ninja strategy. So are you using Claude to go in and manage your We have not started using Claude with Google Ads yet.

We're using it with our Amazon side, but not Google yet.

Yeah, this is, this is wild. So Ryan, basically what I'm hearing you say is the principles haven't changed, but the tools have changed a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. You have like your own brain that's on 24/7 that doesn't mess up working for you. So duplicate yourself, please.

And Jeff, Jeff, what about you on the Amazon side? What has changed in the last 5 years versus what hasn't changed at all?

Yeah, I'd say first comes to mind is it has become more of a pay-to-play, unfortunately. So if you look at like the search results on Amazon, I mean, over half the search results when you search for a product are actually ads. You know, Amazon's trying to make sure that they make money as well and make money first. And so, you know, so that's why you really have to— I think if you want to grow to a multi-million dollar brand on Amazon, you got to be doing great at Amazon PPC and Amazon DSP ads. That's absolutely critical. Um, the other thing that's evolved is, you know, 5 years ago, or, you know, especially when we, we all got in, you could just launch on Amazon only and you're just an Amazon-only brand and get a hot product and hot niche. I think unfortunately those days are over and you have to do, unfortunately, all the, the hard work and principles that Ryan's been teaching for over 10 years, which is, you know, to build a great brand, build a great customer base, serve your customer, build a great product, and do it not just on Amazon but on your website and on TikTok Shop. You don't have to do like all 3 or 4 channels all at once, you know, but you, you do need to come up with a plan to get to at least 2 channels, I would say, to diversify. Because Amazon's a great customer acquisition channel, but you will make more money and profit on your website in the long run. So I think that's, that's a big one. Um, yeah, those are some of the big things that come to mind.

Jeff, I want to stay on the algorithm where You mentioned that the— it's a pay-to-play marketplace right now, but the algorithm is still where the free traffic comes from and is still what a lot of Amazon sellers want to unlock. Because if you can get strong placements, you get lots of free traffic. Could you break down if the algorithm's ranking system has changed at all and what numbers you need to optimize for in order to show up for the, the most profitable keywords?

So yeah, step one is, you know, we call like different momentum loops. So at Turnkey, so basically optimization loop is number one. So you got to do great keyword research and know what you're targeting for because it's a lot more competitive now than it was 5 years ago. So you want to get really focused on what exactly my product is and making sure like what are the top 5 keyword phrases that like, that's my— if I show up in that result, like I'm the best product out there for that search result and I I want to go after that. So you got to optimize your listing on the front end, on the back end with keywords, uh, so that you're optimized and indexed. So that's one. And then the, you know, make sure you have the traffic loop going as well. PPC and DSP, uh, getting really aggressive, say, on those top 5 to 10 keyword phrases, right? That'll help you with ranking, um, because Amazon sees, oh, you know, Jeff's spending a lot of money on this keyword phrase and they're getting a really good conversion rate, click-through rate, and sales. And so that will help you, you know, over time to do that, to start organically ranking. And one thing that's changed as well is Amazon values external traffic a lot more than I think it used to. So like what Travis was talking about with, you know, it doesn't matter where the traffic comes from, like Amazon just, they track where everything, and anytime they see external traffic coming in, they really value that and it's going to help boost your sales. So if you have I always say for brands, like, whatever your asset is— like, some people have a great email list, right? Some people, like Ryan, might have a great TikTok shop or TikTok influencer, uh, list of influencers. And so, you know, whatever your asset is, it's good to temporarily— I think what I call turn on the fire hose and point it towards Amazon. Let's say when you're launching a brand new product, it needs traffic, it needs sales in order to get reviews. It's like, it takes time to snowball. So external traffic has become a lot more important. That'll build up your reviews, which are a lot harder today than they were 5 years ago. So I think if you just, if you do all those things, I know it's a lot of stuff, you got to do a lot of stuff right. But if you do, that's where, I mean, we've had multiple clients that are scaling to, you know, over $1 million a month. So that's what's possible on Amazon still.

Now, Jeff, do you think that the outside traffic matters because outside traffic converts at a higher rate? So conversion rate is actually the number to optimize for, or is it the, the actual function of outside traffic to Amazon that is feeding it what it wants? What do you think is the reason why outside traffic is helping with organic rank?

I've seen that. I mean, you still have to get sales from it. Like, you can't just, you know, go get some AI bots to send 1,000 visitors to your listing and not buy anything like that. Will end up hurting you. So you do want— I think, you know, you want targeted traffic like from an email list or an early pre— you know, we like to do like pre-launch VIP VIP list, right, of like, hey, we're launching this product next month, and you build up that list. So like, you're going to get a really high conversion rate on those sales. So I think that really helps. They like the external traffic, and if you can bring in actually like a higher conversion rate from that traffic than just the average Amazon search customer, uh, Amazon loves that as well. So you definitely want targeted traffic.

Yeah, I, I'm trying— I, I haven't made up my mind on this yet, Jeff, because I've anecdotally I've seen the same thing, that outside traffic absolutely helps with Amazon exposure. What I haven't yet figured out is, is Amazon rewarding just the fact that I'm bringing people to the platform and it's coming from outside traffic, or is it because I have a good connection with my email list and so the conversion rate goes up? And I haven't been able to figure that out because I'm not— in the olden days, you would send people through a keyword and then they would buy through that keyword and Amazon would reward that because it sort of artificially manipulated the conversion rate for a keyword. But now if I just send an email to my list and they buy, I'll see a lift in the overall organic traffic. So do you, do you have a thesis of how Amazon is factoring that into the overall algorithm score?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's, you know, they want targeted traffic that, you know, if you send 100 customers, like you want to be, you know, getting at least, you know, 10, 20, 30 sales out of that. Ideally, so I do think that you want targeted, you know, high converting traffic in an ideal world for sure, because I think conversion rate just in general on Amazon is one of the most important, you know, search algorithm ranking factors and how they decide who to put on the page. So if you can send, you know, higher traffic or higher sales converting traffic from your whatever list, email lists or Google Ads like Travis, they're going to reward you for that. But if you don't, if it's untargeted and they're not converting or bringing in much sales, that actually might might hurt you.

Travis, do you have a similar or a different take? Because you're sending external traffic, but you're also managing a whole bunch of pay-per-click traffic as well. So what is your take on this topic?

A little bit of devil's advocate for this because, um, the external traffic matters to a certain point. And you said something where it converts higher. It actually converts a lot lower when you send external traffic from our strategy because we're sending cold traffic from Google to a blog post and then the blog post over to Amazon. And so that traffic actually doesn't convert that well. It usually converts anywhere between 1% and 5%, but it still increases the organic rank significantly. And the reason is, is because Amazon rewards a few things on platform: sales velocity, conversion rate. If you can just focus on those two things, sales velocity and conversion rate, that's it. You're going to win on Amazon. Now, the external traffic piece, Amazon knows its lifetime value of customers. It's like $2,300 for a Prime member. It's like almost $1,000 for a non-Prime member. And you're sending people that maybe haven't shopped on Amazon over to Amazon to buy. And so Amazon's like, yes, we've captured another customer. I'm going to reward this person who just sent me outside traffic because I know they're going to buy a mattress, they're going to buy a TV, they're going to buy a gaming system, they're going to buy all these other things. As a result of you sending that traffic. So, and this is not like— I don't know the Amazon algorithm, but my thought is like they know how much they're going to extract out of that. So they're going to reward you even if your conversion rate's low for that external traffic. And but like Jeff said, you still have to make sales. You can't just send a bunch of traffic. It has to make some sales, but the conversion rate is usually lower from our strategy, but it still boosts rank.

So in other words, it's almost like Amazon is rewarding the total dollars per customer, not even what they spend on your product, but what they spend overall as a customer or as a Prime customer. Is that right?

Knows the lifetime value of that customer.

That is really interesting. Question for both of you before I go over to Ryan. I want to know, I, I am starting to think that Amazon calculates part of its algorithm based on not just conversion rate, but dollars per click, meaning how much they are earning per click. So if your conversion rate is the same as someone else with a lower price point, you may rank higher than that because the overall earnings for the platform are higher. So if you convert the same rate, but the price is higher, you're going to be more favorable in the Amazon algorithm. Jeff, would you agree or disagree with that thesis?

Yeah, I mean, it's hard to, hard to say exactly because I don't, you know, it's hard to know that, that data exactly. So yeah, I can't speak to that. I mean, it does make sense for sure, but yeah, I don't know. That's a, that's a tough one. I haven't seen that.

But from, from your perspective, the benefit there would be just that the increased margin would allow you to spend more on advertising. Which is going to make you show up for more keywords.

Yeah, exactly. Like, we've just seen that work a lot better, um, like, as a, as a whole. Like, our clients, like, they just need to have enough margin to do all the things that we need to do— run coupons, run PPC, um, and then all that compounds to, to do. So if you lower your price and, you know, yeah, maybe your conversion rate goes up, yeah, you might get a little bit better ranking in the short term, but it might actually hurt you because your profits are gone. So Um, you kind of have to weigh, weigh both, I would say.

Travis, what— do you have an opinion on if pricing affects your organic ranking on Amazon?

I, I do. It all goes back to conversion rate. As long as your conversion rate is high, Amazon's going to want to show you. Because if, if I'm an Amazon algorithm and I'm deciding which product I want to show this customer, I'm going to show the one that converts higher and that's selling more. Because my goal with being Amazon is I want you to get on, find what you're looking for, buy it, and then get off. And so you want that high conversion rate, that high sales velocity product, and you're going to push that in front of them. And so going back to like the earnings per click thing, if you are in the affiliate marketing world, you know this, but like that's the main metric that all affiliates go by. And if your earnings per click isn't high enough, they won't even like touch you. They'll just be like, yeah, Not enough for us. And then they'll move on. And so Amazon's kind of the same way. It's just like, how much can I earn per click? Which one converts higher? Which one has more sales? Which one's going to more likely end in the purchase? And that's how you have to think about it all the time.

Ryan, you are known now for your presence on TikTok Shop, but you started selling and the old school e-commerce ways that all of us currently sell on. So when you started running traffic from TikTok and it spills over to Amazon, did you notice that there was a lift from that outside traffic to your Amazon listings?

Yeah, the— it's like a direct correlation. A lot of people will not complete the purchase on TikTok Shop because they don't feel comfortable there. They want to go price compare on Amazon or they want to see if you have reviews over there and you're not a scammer. And they'll end up buying it over there. So I see, you know, as I put more dollars into the TikTok shop ads, I see the Amazon sales.

You see the sales go up, but do you also see the organic ranking go up?

I, I have like a more of a controversial take on this where I don't really care so much about organic rank. I care about how much profit I make on a daily basis. And I've seen, you know, over the last 10 years, Amazon, they just put all the ad placements up top. There's two different ways to play Amazon. There's charge less and rank better organically, but you can't really run ads profitably. Or you charge more and you can run ads profitably, but you have to be mindful of conversion rate either way, because ultimately, like, dollar— how much money are you going to get from the ads where you can be sustainable and run the ads long term, right? Because you can't just charge, you know, $150 for a $50 product and get the ads to work because the conversion rate is going to be so low. There has to be a balance where you're like, do I want to play the ad game where I'm being really aggressive and I can dominate all the ad placements over the long term? Or do I want to charge like rock bottom and I can't really run the ads and I can rank organically?

Ryan, I would like for you to explain to us how the TikTok shop algorithm works. Not how does something go viral on TikTok, but the actual shop algorithm, because a lot of people do not factor in the amount of exposure that happens when your product starts to show up in the shop itself. So would you help us understand how the TikTok shop algorithm works?

There's a pretty good amount of shop traffic where people are actually on the shop tab and browsing, and then your, your product might pop up organically in there. But there are also paid placements in the shop tab as well. That's why a lot of time when you refresh it, you'll see like the same brands over and over, like Goalie or any— if you're shopping in wellness, you're going to see see like the same wellness brands because the budget behind their GMV Max ads, a lot of it's going to the shop tab as well. For the algorithm, it's, you know, nobody— things have changed a little bit since the acquisition, like it changes every month of TikTok, but it's, it's kind of just like, it's almost random because like you could have the same piece of content posted by the same person, not really any major differences, and one just gets picked up and starts going viral and the other one gets, you know, 150 views. It's like put in the reps and sometimes something gets picked up.

Well, specifically, specifically what I mean, Ryan, is there are affiliates and creators who are going into TikTok Shop and they're looking for products to promote. And if something shows up in TikTok Shop more prominently, they're more likely to reach out and want to promote that product. And if they see that there's a lot of people making money from selling that product, they're more likely to want to promote that product. So How do you get more visibility in the shop itself to show up in front of other creators and affiliates?

Right. Uh, well, giving free samples is key, and then also giving more commissions is important. Uh, when you're a new brand and you don't have the credibility behind what you're doing, you generally have to pay more to get people to start posting. It's kind of a little bit of like a winner-take-all scenario, to be completely honest with you. For the top brand, whoever has the most GMV on the charts, they're going to check the chart and they're going to see, you know, NeuroGum, Goalie, MetaCube. I want to promote those products. That's what everybody else is doing. And it's kind of like a never-ending snowball of momentum that the winners take all. How do you break through when you're brand new? You have to generally pay more or you have to build the relationships and compensate them more upfront with commissions or flat amounts to get them moving. Yeah.

So is, is TikTok Shop showing those brands according to total GMV? Or are there other factors that they're, they're weighing and who they show in the shop?

It's kind of like a bandwagon effect to some. Like, they, they open up their For You page, they see all the content from a brand, they assume that's the brand to promote, and then they hop on it. Or they go into one of these tools that tells them what the top brands are. Like, and a lot of, a lot of creators do have access to these tools like Kallo Data or Fast Moss, and they can sort by category and GMV, and they can see trend lines as well, like which ones are— a lot of, a lot of creators will try to pick up trends like before they start to pop. So you can set a filter on these tools where it's like, show me the brands that are trending the most in the right direction over the last 30 days. And then they'll go through this list and they'll be like, you know, this is something I'd like to promote, let me go ask for a sample in Shop. And if they get the sample, then they'll promote it. Sometimes they'll buy it because they want to be like quick on the gun before they start sending samples to everybody. And that's kind of like, I would say, the higher level people, they, they take the little extra step to get the product in their hand before everybody else. So they're the first piece of content out.

And what would you say is important for a brand to have in place in order to show up and look like a player when a creator looks them up and reaches out interested in promoting their product versus somebody else? Like, what is, what does a brand need to have in place?

A lot of it's similar to like Amazon optimization. You need your listing fully built out, you need your store built out, some kind of third-party validation that you have done something if you can. If you haven't done that yet, then, you know, maybe work on getting some press release or something where it's like, you know, as, as seen on this, or this person talked about it, or, you know, you know, 10,000 reviews. Online. So you can't say Amazon on TikTok, but you know, just find some creative way to give yourself some credibility. Um, because if you search literally any product on TikTok, you're going to see like 100 clones and, you know, they're all fake. They're, they're cloning the product that's on top and it's like a whack-a-mole game these brands play, like pulling down the copycats that hop on. And it's kind of like how Amazon used to be with like people jumping on the buy boxes and things like that.

Yeah. Is TikTok Shop still, still in the wide open west period where there's all kinds of weird stuff happening? Is that still the case right now?

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if they'll ever put a lid on that or if they care to.

Hmm. But interesting.

It's fun.

I want to talk— I want to talk about results that each of you have seen over the last 12 to 24 months. Jeff, I know that you've taken several clients to $1 million a month. And I would like to hear you break down what worked there. Is it just that the market is bigger now, or are there specific strategies that you're seeing be able to take a brand to that type of scale?

Yeah, I think, uh, the, you know, the market's definitely grown. I mean, Amazon just continues to grow every year, but that's certainly not why, because otherwise almost every brand would just be doing $1 million a month on Amazon, and that would be nice, but that's not the case. Um, yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking of these few brands that have, uh, the recent case studies, I mean, they have a lot of things in common. So they all do a lot of things right. Uh, 3 that come to mind is they have like a highly quality or high quality like differentiated product. So, uh, it's, it's not just some cookie cutter off the shelf, you know, opportunity seeker. It's truly like a great product. Um, it tends to be premium price product and all of these are repeat purchase type brands. So They understand that they can get 6 or 7 orders of that same product from, from one customer in a year. So they, they really understand the math and we help them understand the math from an Amazon perspective, like what their LTV is, what their repeat purchase rate is. We're trying to grow Subscribe Save for them on Amazon. So those are some of the things that like are common attributes. And then that allows us to know Uh, and then also they have big catalogs, so, you know, not just one product or two products, but, you know, most of these have like 5, 10, 15, uh, SKUs that like all are really great products, and we can cross-sell and, and do lots of cool stuff between them. Um, and then another common attribute is they definitely, you know, all are willing to spend money on advertising. They understand like that's how you scale, uh, at that level. And so, you know, they give us very specific profitability metrics by product, and we'll narrow down like this product has a, you know, XYZ percentage, uh, you know, a 30% net margin, um, you know, but that product has a 50% net margin. And so we'll actually fine-tune our advertising targets for like how, how aggressive we can get on specific products. So that's something that I think really helps us to scale profitably. Um, and another thing too is just a lot of these brands, they all tend to be doing at least one really good external traffic source. So A lot of them, a lot of them, they have, they're doing, you know, they have great Meta is probably the most common where like they've scaled Meta ads and continue to push that. So they get, you know, some spillover onto Amazon as well as onto their website. TikTok Shop, we've seen that a lot more commonly as well. So they usually have at least 2 channels in total that's driving the growth and then it all helps each other. Amazon traffic goes to TikTok, TikTok goes to Amazon, Shopify, and, you know, and it's the ones that they're not worried about, like, oh, like, I want to protect my, my customers on this channel. Like, it's the ones that, like, they just want to acquire customers, deliver a great experience. They don't really care where, what platform they buy on because they deliver such a great experience to the customer that they're going to buy from them again, whether it's on the website or Amazon and all that. And we do have some clients that they, they are worried about cannibalization. And so we do do some strategies to help avoid cannibalization of their Shopify sales., to Amazon. Um, yeah, those are some of the things that come to mind that, uh, we've seen. Yeah.

Yeah. Jeff brings up a really important point here, which is that the best clients that he sees be successful are the ones that know their lifetime customer value. They are not just betting on the short-term profit of what somebody buys today. He's banking on that customer coming back and buying 3, 4 more times. If you know those numbers, then you can effectively predict what you're going to have to spend to acquire a customer. And I personally am more than willing to overpay to get a customer who buys on Subscribe Save or that is going to come back and buy over and over again. You can really only do that if you either have a large number of SKUs or my preference, you have a consumable brand of some kind.. This is true in beauty, in food, topicals, skincare, supplements, and is also true in pets. That's why those are some of my favorite markets. If you wanna build a high margin consumable brand where you can get repeat customers who are buying from you every month and have a high amount of profit, so you have the foundation that you can scale to 7 figures or even sell one day, you can find out how we help people get into that game by going over to Capitalism.com/bootcamp and getting on the waiting list for our next cohort. Jeff, this is, this is really fun because the way that you broke that down is it seems like a very logical math formula. If your product converts and you have enough margin and you know what your lifetime value is going to be, then you'll know how much money you can spend and how aggressive you can be to acquire customers. And as long as the math checks out, you should continue scaling that. 1, 2, skip a few, $99,000,000 a month. That's simple. Yeah, that's how you do it. Okay. Now, I would like to know, Travis, with the brands that you're acquiring or the ones that you are advising, what is the biggest or the fastest delta that you've seen of going from X revenue per month to growing it over the last 12 to 24 months?

So Jeff just said it and I'm going to second it. And it's having more than one channel. The days of just relying on Amazon alone and hoping that that scales is going to be— it's going to be hard for you because word of mouth works incredibly well. And when you have that second channel, whether that be Meta ads to your Shopify store or what's working best right now is TikTok Shop, you're creating just more word of mouth. And then the client or the client, the customer is seeing you on more than one place.. And so they're seeing you over on TikTok, they're seeing you on Amazon, and they may see you on Meta. So the clients that I have that are— I don't wanna say struggling, cuz that just makes me sound bad, but the clients that aren't scaling as fast are the ones that are just trying to rely on Amazon. And so the thing that we do, we're buying a brand right now. We should close pretty soon within the next 3 weeks. And they are an Amazon-only brand. They onboarded with us 2.5 years ago. We've grown them 40% year 1. 10% in year 2, and they're kind of starting to get stagnant because we've gotten to the top of the, the ranking because they're only relying on Amazon. And so the first thing we're doing, we've already opened up their TikTok Shop and we're going to get ready to launch that on day 1 that we acquire the brand. So we're going over to TikTok Shop using the strategy Ryan talked about. And the difference between brands that make it on TikTok Shop and the ones that don't are the ones that are willing to give away for the longest period of time. Goli, we use that as an example today. They give away like 7,000 units a week for their supplements. Whereas in like, we, we recommend a conservative launch is like 30, giving away 30 a week. 100 is aggressive for brands that are, you know, under that $1 to $2 million in size. And if you want to get super aggressive, you're going to have to play with the big dogs and give away 7,000 a week. And you have to have the cash flow to do that. You have to have the inventory and logistics to do that. So. I usually recommend starting with 100 a week, but if you have the cash flow and inventory, go for more because like Ryan said, the more you get out there, the better. And then you're going to get more word of mouth and then they're going to buy on TikTok Shop. But most of them are going to go over to Amazon to buy. And so you create this multichannel strategy that just helps lift the entire boat. So this business that we're buying is doing about 4.25 million top line on Amazon. We think we can get them to $10 million within the next year and a half just by focusing on TikTok Shop.

All right. I want to cut in and clarify something here because I think what Jeff and Travis are talking about, being on multiple channels, is exactly the right advice, but only once you're over $1 million a year. If you are just starting out, I personally would not recommend that you try to be on multiple sales channels.

Channels.

It's just too much for you to manage, especially if you're just bootstrapping this thing and you're a solo founder. Now, if you've raised a bunch of capital and you've got a team and you're operating at a loss and you're cool with that, go for it. Be on multiple channels. It's how you'll build a really big brand fast. But if you're a scrappy startup entrepreneur, I think that the fastest way to $100,000 a month or $1 million a year is to commit to one darn channel and give it your all for at least 6 to 12 months. Once you're at $1 million or more, then you've got enough profit, you've got enough momentum to be able to branch off and go into other channels. And yes, I do see people double their business or increase 50% when they go over and add a second channel, and it's effective. But I also see new entrepreneurs try to go into multiple channels at the same time, and it kills their business. So my advice, go deep into one channel first, then you branch off and add other channels. And the giveaways that you're talking about, that is a metric that you sent, said for, for TikTok shop creators to go in and get a free sample, right? And then they may or may not do a piece of content about it.

Yeah. So we use the same program Ryan uses, Yuka, and then they reach out. We, we set up little bots to reach out. Mess with messages. People request samples, you then approve them. We try to approve anybody that's done over $10,000 in revenue or GMV per month, and then that's the only ones we approve. And then they start making videos. But the big unlock there is that when you start pulling them into your GMV Max ads, you're paying them 8% for advertising affiliate commission, and then you're paying like 20 to 30%, like Jeff was saying, in organic commission. But then when you combine that and they're starting to get commission from organic and paid, they start making more videos for you. And so you're giving away 30 units a week or 100 units a week. You're not getting 30 videos back a week. You're getting 30, then 60, then 100, then 200. Because the creators and affiliates that are smart, they will start making more videos for you because you're pulling them into the ads. Most brands are not running the ads. They just are relying on the creator's organic reach, which is— that's that push and pull strategy I talked about earlier. You have to do both to succeed.

Yeah, that is beautiful. Ryan, what about you? What's the biggest zero to one or transformation story that you've seen on TikTok Shop in the last year to 2 years?

I want to kind of set the framework of the story too, because this is somebody that I learned e-commerce indirectly through you, and then I taught a couple of people how to do it. And one of those people that I taught like 7 years ago, They were starting on Amazon and they reached out to me like 2 years ago. They're like, hey Ryan, can you help me get on TikTok Shop? They were selling a book on Amazon that was like filling out your family story. It was called Questions About Me. Uh, they were doing zero on TikTok Shop and we helped them create a simple repeatable formula for like an emotional story of somebody, you know, filling out something about, you know, it was a real story too about how their, their mother had passed away and this was like a book that they are glad that they, or they wish that they had had at the time. And it went through like some of the questions, just a very simple, like repeatable video. And within, I would say, 2 and a half months, they went from zero to $400K a month just with about 15, 15 creators or so. Cause it was a, it was the right product at the right time on TikTok Shop where it was like a very emotional story, simple repeatable content formula, um, and a good product that already had validation, um, on Amazon.

Um, and does that, Do those sales numbers hold or is that a spike that then goes away?

It's like they're a little bit seasonal in this particular case, but it's usually like varies between $200K to $500K depending on like which holiday is there because they have a whole set of books. They have one for like they advertise around Mother's Day, Father's Day, Valentine's Day. And then, you know, there's like different holiday.

I don't know all of them, but there's a couple others to help me understand a little bit of the peaks and valleys that happen on TikTok Shop because Sometimes I've seen it where, you know, a video will hit and you get a whole bunch of exposure, but then it sort of dies off until the next video hits. So, but then there's, there's other examples where, you know, you get a lift and then things stay really hot for a long time. So help us understand that the different ebbs and flows that happen on TikTok Shop.

Having the GMV Max ads on and having that like commission set makes it a little bit more stable. The biggest ebbs and flows you would have is when a really hot video that's converting well on ads gets like disapproved or banned, which does happen sometimes. Ah, um, so if you're putting a lot of ad spend behind something and you know, your competitors don't like it, they'll just start reporting it, gets pulled, then you make another one, then the other one goes up, the other one comes back later, doesn't come back with the same velocity as before. So it's kind of just keep the volume going, keep the ads going to the new creative that's similar to what's working, and you're always one step ahead of that. But there are like, you know, outliers where it's like a really hot piece of content that the algorithm was really loving gets pulled down. You know, your revenues for the brand gets cut in half and then you have to try to figure out how to repeat that.

Yeah. You know, I have a brand that I'm working with that is seeing these, these ebbs and flows on TikTok. I never thought to ask if they are running ads behind their best converting piece of content. I just assumed they were. And so now I have something to investigate. Thank you for that, guys. This, this is, this is fantastic. I want to get allow each of you to do a quick plug for either what types of businesses you buy and how people should contact you or how to work with you. Ryan, since we're on you, I'll stay with you. How could people look you up and work with you?

If you're a brand, stayviral.io, you can contact us if you want to get on TikTok Shop and you've got some budget. If you don't have any budget, probably not the right fit for you right now. If you have substantial revenue somewhere else and you're not on TikTok Shop, it's probably perfect for you. That's how you can contact me. Yep.

Beautiful. Travis, you're up next. How do people find you? How can they tell you they want to sell their company? How can they look you up?

Yeah, find me at profitablepineapple.com. You can click on the Work With Us button. There's a short form that you can fill out there. Would love to jump on a strategy call with your listeners as well. You can go to profitablepineapple.com/strategycall, short form there as well. And then we will jump on a call and kind of map out the next steps for you, whether that be Amazon DSP, Amazon DSP, TikTok shop, Shopify, whatever it is, we'll just kind of go through that and help you get to that next level. So that's profitablepineapple.com/strategycall.

And is that the same if someone wants to talk to you about acquiring their company?

Yeah, you can come contact me right there. Also Facebook, just send me a DM.

All right, great. Jeff, who should contact you and how would they do it?

Yeah, if you want to scale on Amazon, free up your time, free up your team's time, that's what we do. So turnkeyproductmanagement.com, we have a ton of free resources there, and there's a Let's Chat button that you— if you're interested in working with us or seeing if it's a good fit, just connect with us there and we'll see, you know, if we think we can help you, we'll let you know. So thanks so much for having us, Ryan. This has been great, guys.

This is fantastic. Thanks for your time. Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us. We'll do this again. This was fantastic. Appreciate you guys. While everybody is talking about AI and everybody is talking about SaaS businesses, I love that there are still e-commerce brands that are going from 0 to 7 figures and some of them 8 figures in the period of a year. Just love it. I love being in an industry that everybody else is sleeping on right now. And I think one of the best plays in the world right now is building a high margin consumable brand and being really aggressive with your advertising and building the foundation for a multimillion-dollar business and eventually an 8-figure exit. It's why my entire business, my entire focus is on building a portfolio of e-commerce brands, why I have a fund that invests in e-commerce brands, why I advise e-commerce brands. And if you're an entrepreneur who wants to build one of these and have high margins and repeat orders and build the foundation for something that you can scale and sell, you can get on the waiting list for our next cohort where we help entrepreneurs get into the game over at Capitalism.com/bootcamp. I am Ryan Daniel Moran with Capitalism.com. Thanks for watching. I'll see you guys next time. Take care.