How To Stack The Deck In Your Favor w/ Ryan Michler

Building a business is something I think every man should at least look into. And I know that not every man is cut out for the entrepreneurial life. But self employment provides benefits that I don't think should be overlooked. It's flexibility of schedule, pursuit of passion, unlimited income potential. But with all that goes on into successfully running a business, starting your own can seem like a daunting, if not impossible endeavor at times. Today I'm joined by my friend and serial entrepreneur, Ryan Moran. He is the founder of capitalism.com and the author of 12 Months to 1 Million. We talk about choosing a winning product, the mindset for building a business, how to stack the deck in your favor, aligning your interests with business growth and the true purpose of money.

Yeah, no, I appreciate it, man.

It's.

It's been really good. It's been a good ride. Cause I think we talked, man, we must have talked early on, like five years ago. Four or five years ago.

I was, I was pretty early on in, in like the first few episodes, I think. Yeah, no, you were like watching you double down on the message, watching you continue to share when. Share about things other people weren't willing to share about is just, it's just been amazing to watch your growth.

Thank you, man. I appreciate that. It's been, it's been a really good ride and I appreciate our friendship. I'm actually, I've been looking forward to this conversation. Cause as I read the book, I was like, man, I get some like one on one coaching here. This is, this is actually, this is the reason I started the podcast. A lot of people don't know this, but I started it like very selfishly. I was like, all right, I want to have conversations with good dudes like yourself, and there's no legitimate reason for them to talk with me. So maybe I'll start a podcast and like convince them to come talk with me and then I'll publish it to like my mom and my sister and. Because those are the only people that were listening. And here we are five years later and now millions of people are listening, which is really cool. But I still get the benefit of it.

It's amazing.

Congratulations, man. It's like, I'm just, I'm so stoked for you. And also I think I said in our first interview, I so respect what you're. What you're attempting to. And now you're like leading the charge on it. And so it's just.

I'm good.

Doubly honored to be on again.

Right on, man. What's been Going on for you, though?

Well, obviously a child. So I've got those now.

Two of them. That's good.

Yep. And I have a. So I have a older girl and a boy now, which is exciting.

Congrats.

Thank you. And wrote the book, which was great. I'm raising the capitalism.com fund, so I feel like I'm just starting to hit stride as an entrepreneur and find my way. So, like, it's been.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Like, I've had. I've had wins and I've had losses and I've had successes, but I feel like it's all been data gathering up until, like, at the very least, this is like the beginning of the next chapter. Maybe. Maybe it's just more appropriate to call it that. But it feels really good.

Yeah, that's cool to hear you say that because, like, I look at you and I'm like, oh, man, he hit his stride years and years ago. So I always have these conversations with my wife about, you know, we experience growth. And she's like, look at all you've done. I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's really cool. Like, what's next? Right? That, like, that's the attitude I have. And she's like, just stop and like, think about what you've appreciated. And I'm like, I do appreciate it, but I want bigger, I want better, I want more, I want now. I want more income, I want to connect with more people, I want to impact more lives. And I don't think that ever goes away for, like, a genuine, like a true entrepreneur. I really don't. Maybe. I don't know, maybe you have some insight into that.

I agree with you. I would absolutely to that. That the next chapter tends to reveal itself when you stop looking for the next thing. So there's like a sense of, I'm here and I want to be here. So I've initially set up the perspective that what I want is outside of myself. And so there's. Now we're running around with a gap. Like, everywhere we go, there's like. And it never really goes away that you want more, but what we really want more of is more of here. It's like, I want more downloads, I want more subscribers, I want more email readers, I want more connections, I want more money. But if we're operating from the place of all of those things are over here, then we tend to delay them. Whereas if you recognize that you are getting more podcast subscribers and you are getting more money and you are getting more attention and more influence, then there's something really weird about appreciating them, makes them appreciate. Because your podcasts are to get better, because you're not trying to hurry through them to the next one to have another piece of content. You're having a really intentional conversation, and all of a sudden, you're not trying to find the whiz bang strategy to make you more money. You recognize that. That there's this piece over here that's working, and you can double down on it, and it doubles. And so there's, like, the attention. It's a really expensive use of energy to think about what's not happening. Because what we think we're doing is saying, I want to be over here. But what we're really doing is just giving energy to this big gap. Whereas if it's like, I want more of this. I love this. I want more of this. I love how many people listen to my pod. I love the messages that I get from people saying, change their lives. I love the fact that this person's been following my podcast for two years and finally gets it. And now you have a reference point for this person. You're speaking right to them. And that person tells 19 people about that podcast, and it starts to grow. So it's this weird, like, that's interesting switcheroo in the brain.

Yeah. I get. I. That's making sense to me because I feel like if you always. Have you talked about it in the context of a gap.

Then in a way it's like, I'm always inadequate.

Yes.

Right. Like, because I felt that. Like, I feel. I feel confident probably in myself, more than I ever have in my entire life, because I'm doing the work that. That the confidence requires, but at the same time, like, I see how much unlocked and untapped potential is there. And most of the time, like, 80% of the time, it's healthy. Like, cool. I can go harder. I can go bigger. I can go better. I can do this more professionally, like, whatever. Right. It's all. It's all healthy. And then 20% of it is, like, you're not doing as much as you could be doing. You're not good enough. Look at that guy. Look what he's got. And you don't have that. And I go into this, like, really dark space 20% of the time.

Yeah. What's interesting about that is that is, like, two sides of the same stick. Because. Because what you just said is, I. I'm gonna say it a little differently. I do the work required to increase my capacity.

That's really what you're saying is, like, my capacity is growing because I've done the work required to increase my capacity. But in the increase of capacity, there's a knowledge that capacity is empty space.

So now I. Now I'm able to see a potential gap. And if we look at. Well, now I have opened up more capacity, which makes me feel worse about myself. Then every time we make progress, we're actually making our lives worse. So our brain starts to see, when I grow, it means pain. Growth means pain. Because I see all the potential that I'm not. This is why I hate the quote where people say my biggest fear is dying and seeing the person that I could have become.

That's hell. That's not. That's hell. Because as you grow, you will never become the person that you are capable of being, because every time you grow, there's new capacity and new relationships and new opportunities and new chances for failure, too. And so the sign of you seeing increased capacity is a reflection of your own growth.

Because you, probably six years ago, when you started Order of Man, didn't imagine that millions of people would be affected by it. No, you could have never seen that. And now that you can see it, you can see, well, I could be Joe Rogan.

I could be this. But I'm not yet. And so am I gonna beat myself up over that, or am I going to honor the fact that a really cool thought just occurred to me that that's a possibility that has opened up for me because of all this hard work that I've done, and that switch is like, everything to your happiness.

That's interesting. One of the things that I've started to do lately is really just focus on how can I improve the present. You know, like, even this podcast, even this conversation, it's like, what little thing can I do? So I'll give you an example. In fact, we talked about it before I hit record last week. I was using these earbuds right here. And as I was on the call, I was like, that looks like crap. Like, I got these white wires hanging out of my head like, that looks like crap. I need to do something about that. So I jumped on and I got some. Some earbuds, which I'm using now. And, you know, you might look at that and think, okay, that's like an insignificant, trivial difference. But as I've really tried to just improve the current moment to even the slightest degree, like, it's brought so much fulfillment, and it's improved the quality and the joy and satisfaction of Every encounter that I have.

Yeah, that, like those little tweaks that make the exponential curve happen. Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, for sure. No, it's cool, man. That's a really good, that's actually a good way to lead it off because I love the idea and the concept of capacity. It's a word I actually really like. Capacity, capability. And it is fascinating to know that once you, whether it's, you know, in the weight room or, or a podcast or starting a business, which you talk with a lot of people about, like once you hit what you thought was your capacity, it's like, opens up the next level. You know what I mean? And that's really cool. You're like, cool, I got that check. I'm capable of doing that. And the other cool thing that I really like is not only are you unlocking your own, your own capacity and capabilities, but you realize, and I'm learning this now, is that as I improve my capabilities, I unlock portals, for lack of a better term for other people to unlock theirs. That's what I'm realizing now, which is actually a really, really cool place to be.

Yeah, that's, that's, that's influence, man, for sure.

So tell me about the premise of the book. I mean, obviously you've been a business owner. I'm trying to wrap these things back up, but you've obviously been a business owner for a long time. I've been inspired what you're doing. I know there's plenty of other people who have been inspired and coached by you, but tell me the premise of the book, which is 12 months to 1 million.

Yeah, I wrote 12 months of 1 million, basically to give the kid that wanted to be an entrepreneur and me the roadmap to hitting seven figures, along with all the context and lessons that I had learned before I began my. As a result of starting this journey.

So.

The thesis behind the book is I've helped several hundred entrepreneurs hit seven figures with a fairly predictable model, because we break it into three stages where if you focus on just the things that are in front of you in these four month chunks, these three four month chunks, then it's kind of inevitable that at the end of 12 months you end up having a successful, profitable business. And in a lot of cases, it's a seven figure business. And a seven figure business has real value that can be sold, that can be scaled. And you and I both interact with a lot of. I don't call them entrepreneurs, I call them Internet marketers. The people who, people who know how to posture or have status or sell things, but they don't have businesses, which they don't.

Look, if I'm being frank on that, that's actually me right now. Like, I know how to present a message, how to communicate that message, how to brand very well. And now I'm like realizing, okay, this has to be a real business. I have to bring structure and other people into the bow and like make this something that can work even to some degree independently of me. Just like showing up and posting on Instagram all day.

Yeah. So here is the catch 22 of people like you and me. We give so much on the front end, we give so much on the content side, on the free side that we're not as exercised in. How do we make the business part of this sustainable in the sense of what product do I create that creates a meaningful impact in someone's life in the same way that my free content, which you and I would both do and kind of do for free? And how do we make this sustainable with a business arm to that. And I mean, I believe the purpose of money is to fund and sustain service to one another. So our primary question is not how do I reverse engineer the money, it is how do I reverse engineer the direction that the person that I am targeting or speaking to, what is the journey they're on and how do I create something that's so valuable to them that it can't help but spread and become a million dollar business? So in your case, we're actually 75% of the way there. Let me put a pin in that and come back to this.

Yeah, for sure.

Because the three stages to a million dollar business are these four month chunks that I call the grind, the growth and the gold. And the first four months, that first stage is the grind that is figuring out who your customer is, what you're going to sell them, what the journey they're on is, what products they sell along their way, how you're gonna go to market, how you're gonna fund the thing. And you already threw that.

Right.

And that's like 50 to 75% of the work is making those decisions.

Okay.

The thing that gives you a distinct advantage is you have a very clear mark, you have a very clear person with a very clear journey. Because it's essentially you seven years ago.

It's me. That's exactly right.

Yeah. So that, that's like the great hack. When you can understand that your customer is you either on a journey or at a previous journey, then it becomes, it becomes a Little bit clearer to relax into that and know how I'm going to serve this person on their journey. And the way that I, like, if.

I can, if I can say one thing on that too, is like it's, it's just so much more genuine. Right. Like you see so many disingenuous people and like I don't think feel like I have to game anything because I'm basically just Talking to the 25 year old version of myself.

Yes. Right.

Which is like, it doesn't feel like effort, like it doesn't feel like I'm, I'm just like grinding through this thing and like I have to do this. I'm like miserable and I'm like, no, I just want to talk with this kid who needs me, you know, like the guy that I would have needed seven years ago, like you said.

Yeah. I mean if you think about it, there's kind of the old adage, what would you tell your younger self?

Right.

You kind of are like, you kind of get to by you serving other people who are seven years behind you, it kind of is you sharing with your younger self.

Right? Yeah.

This is us improving the next generation. So I think that the little nugget that I share in the book that would help you at this point in your journey is I like to serve the target market that is beginning a new journey or a new experience. So what that does is if I can get somebody at the beginning of a new journey, then I can serve them for the life cycle of that whole journey. So an example would be one of my first physical products brands was a yoga business and it's called Zen Active Sports. And we just simply ask the question, okay, what is somebody who does yoga buy at the beginning of their journey? Because if we get them at the beginning of their journey, then we can have them through the whole lifecycle of them.

So I'm thinking like a mat or some sort of maybe like a roller or something like that. Blocks maybe. Yeah.

So those were three of our first products. You just nailed it obvious at that point.

Right, right.

So in your case, you and I have both become fathers and when you become a dad, you know, that's an entirely new journey.

No doubt.

So did you ever notice when you had your, when your first child that all of a sudden strollers became much more interesting where it was like, I never noticed that feature on that person's stroller. Now I have stroller envy.

You're barking up the wrong tree on this thing. My wife and I, look, we have four kids none of them in our stroller now. And my wife and I are still arguing about strollers like she's the stroller person. I'm like, I don't want anything to do with it because we legitimately have three strollers. We don't even have a kid in a stroller, and we have three strollers still here. It's crazy. So don't get me started on the stroller tangent.

My apologies, but you were not a stroller customer.

Yes, but then we were, of course.

Or starting a new fitness routine. Right. Like you've said, it starts in the gym. When you are lost. Starts in the gym.

Right.

So if it starts with your body, then if you believe that, and I know you do, then one of the things you might consider as you're building the business engine behind Order of Man is you have the man who buys into your philosophy and says, what do I do now? And you say, it starts with your body, it starts in the gym. And they say, okay, what do I do now? And you might say, join a CrossFit box. Join the gym. Just lift something, dude.

Right, Right.

But now that person has started a new journey. So what is that person now looking for at the beginning of their journey? They're looking at what weight belt do I buy? What do I eat, what supplements do I take? How is my daily routine going to be a little bit different? Am I journaling now? Am I buying podcasting equipment? Am I buying something different for my wife or my partner?

How am I moving my body different, my dressing different? All of a sudden there's just like becoming a father brought new buying decisions to you. Anyone who starts a new journey has new buying behaviors that you can support and supply that are in complete alignment with what you are doing now. So this isn't the exact advice I would give everyone, but for you specifically, that's looking for the business arm of this. You've already got the person targeted perfectly and they're on this beautiful journey that you are pumped to support them on. And so your question becomes, how do I develop products? My line of work is physical products, but any type of product that would help them overcome a micro challenge on that journey to just make that journey as smooth as possible. It could be a pre workout and a protein blend, or it could be podcasting equipment, or it could be whatever you believe makes their transition from.

The man that society expects us to be versus the man we're called to be. That's the transformation that they're making. And your job is to you already do it with information and inspiration. How do you do it with consumption? The thing that they're going to buy that makes that journey easier.

Yeah, this is. I mean, this makes so much. I even think about yesterday. I had posted and. And we've done this in some capacity, but I had posted that every one of my days starts with a plan. Like, you don't start a day without a plan ever. Like, every day has to have a plan. And I just put the planner that I use and it just had some of my notes or whatever, like my own personal notes. And this is a planner that we have available for people. But I was blown away with the reception of like, dude, where do I get that planner? Where can I find that? I'm looking for a way to plan out my day. I'm like, oh, I didn't, like, I didn't post this to like sell you guys on the planner. Like I just said, just plan your day. But if you want the planner, here's where it is, right?

That's right. So what that, what that journal does is it allows you to do the planning that you would naturally want to do, but a little bit easier. And so this journal didn't change your life. It just allows you to more easily become the practiced version of yourself that you are practicing. Let me ask you this, Ryan. Do you ever journal or plan over a hot beverage in the morning?

I don't personally, no.

Okay. Do you take any supplements in the morning right before you journal?

No. No.

Okay. I'm barking up the wrong tree here.

You are. I know where you're going with it. Like, because if there's ancillary products and things, right? Like, here's my environment, here's the light. Here's the chair that I'm sitting in. Here's the light that's shining over my head. Here's the, the cup of coffee that I have. Like, I get where you're going with this.

Yeah. So, I mean, Dave Asprey would be a perfect example for something like this. He starts bulletproof with mold free coffee. Is that even a thing? I don't know. But I know that there was no demand for it when he started bulletproof coffee. No one was talking about mold free coffee.

Right.

Now how do you make the jump from mold free coffee to that, like, vibrating vibe he has that you're standing on? That's a big jump.

Yeah.

What he has done is he's stacked the deck in a way to be a human performance company so that you buy coffee and MCT oil and Bars and you buy the vibe and you go to $15,000 biohacking retreats and all of a sudden all of the things that make your life as an optimized human easier are available through bulletproof. And so I think you have a similar opportunity for the person who is starting a new journey on the path to becoming.

Not the man that society expects, but the man that they're called to be. And developing whatever things allow them to step into that power easier and faster.

Yeah.

This is interesting because I really haven't thought about it to that degree that you're talking about. And I think this is part of the, the dichotomy here is like I do it because I genuinely want to help and serve other people. Not hot products. Right?

Yes.

So but that's a good thing. It means that when I do have products and services available, they're legit. Like it's genuine. This is actually what I use, not what some company said they'd pay me six figures to promote.

Right, that's right. Now, Lena, let's talk about a business that advertises with you is Jocko's.

Stuff.

Right.

So you and I both respect Jocko and it would be a compromise of his audience if he was like, I did this so I could promote my protein powder. But then you look at it, it's the cleanest protein I've ever seen. The blend is awesome.

And he's very innovative on flavor. And so he did not compromise his audience. He went out and developed something that he believed in that would serve the person on their journey. And as a result, that lion is doing extremely well because he had a very specific person that he was targeting with a very high quality product that served them on their journey. That's capitalism, man. Like that. That is where alchemy happens, where you've got this group of people who want something or on this journey and you develop something for them. Now I just want to comment because like someone might be listening to this and not have that developed audience.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. We need to go back a little bit and talk about this side too.

Yeah, sure. So, I mean, I guess to back up a little, my job in writing the book was to give an entrepreneur or an entrepreneurial minded person the playbook to building a seven figure business. It's how to pick a winning product, build a real business and become a seven figure entrepreneur. And it's a 12 month plan. And in those early stages, that primary question is, who is that target person that we're Speaking to.

And before we get to that, though, I want to ask something about. Because you said real business. And I think there's an important distinction here because I get so jaded when I hear people say, like, entrepreneur. I got a message the other day on Instagram and somebody's like, would you consider yourself a dadpreneur? I'm like, I don't even know what the hell that is. Like, we're just making shit up. And the other thing I see a lot is like, Ryan Mickler, CEO and President of Order of Man. I'm the only employee. Like, that's not some grand title, CEO and President of Order of Man. But people do this because they're trying to game it and make themselves better than they really are. And I would say that that's probably not a real business. So, so help me with a distinction between all this stuff that we see and, like, what is a legit business?

A not fake biz or not fake. A not real business.

Right.

Fake business is what someone might call a freedom business. And the reason that is is because that is all about, what do I get out of this?

Hmm.

I was speaking with somebody. I did a podcast interview yesterday where somebody who said, ryan, I've got a business similar to the type you teach, and I'm stuck at around 1 million. And what I really want out of this is I want other people to recognize this as a global brand. And I said, what you just said is, I want other people's money so that I feel validated about myself and other people. Fuck you. You don't matter. Only the customer matters. That's why you're stuck at 1 million.

Interesting.

Okay.

And they did not like that, of.

Course, but it was the truth.

So a fake business, as we're kind of calling it, tongue in cheek, is the one that is only focused on, what do I get out of this? There are diminishing returns to that. Now you can get whatever, like a modest income, a six figure income, just thinking about yourself and what you want to sell.

But a real business, one that is scalable and sellable, is the one that is primarily focused on what you can create for someone else. Now, had you told me that at 24, 25, I would have really hated it because I was a selfish prick too.

Right?

But the difference is you really become successful when you recognize that what you get out of something is a fraction of the value that you create for others. Because the purpose of money is to fund and sustain service to one another. So if I have a specific person that I'm serving and I develop things that allow them to go on this journey of transformation, then the money will show up to fund and sustain that. And part of that sustenance is my salary and my profits so that I can focus more on it, so I can have R and D, so I can develop more, so I can serve more. And so the thing we're solving for is not how do I go find the money and reverse engineer it back to me, it is how do I see what it is that I want to bring to the world and how do I optimize for that. And money shows up in droves. So the strange thing about this, Ryan, is that you don't have to develop a new product in order for you to have that impact on someone. For example, I have a student who has a supplement line, and it's an immunity supplement. And there's like a thousand different immunity supplements. Right. Of course, there's not, like a shortage of immunity supplements in the world. You can. It doesn't matter.

There's a bunch of them, especially now.

Yeah, yeah, right. Because everybody's flooding into that market.

Exactly.

But he's a truck driver, and his market is truck drivers. And he speaks the language of truck drivers. And he knows that truck drivers don't take care of themselves and their bodies. He knows that truck drivers and don't eat in the way that best serves them. They don't sleep in the way that serves them. They don't even consume information in a way that ultimately serves them. He's out to create change in his community among his people. And the first way that he's doing that is in creating an immunity supplement that is branded and marketed to that group specifically, because that alone would be a meaningful step along their journey. And just because it is marketed and branded to that group specifically gives them the permission to take that step, even though they could have done it 10 years ago from any number of supplement companies, this brand specifically for them gives them the permission to go on a journey for better health and better wellness. So your product doesn't need to be different or better or special than everybody else is, but the person that you target does. And that's where you're in a really unique position, because you have that person locked down and you could serve them any way that you want. For the person who is not in that position, your primary question along this journey is, who is the ultimate customer that I want to serve? And in most cases, it's yourself or someone you know. It's you seeing A problem that your spouse had while they were losing weight or it's you seven years ago starting a new fitness routine. So that's in like 80% of cases. The way that you answer that question, man.

Let me hit the pause button really quickly. Coming off of Father's Day weekend, I wanted to again let you know about our first ever legacy experience here in Maine. This is a three and a half day father, son, eventually, all designed to help you forge deeper bonds between you and your son, equip you both with the tools and frameworks and resources that you need to thrive and build up the fortitude and resilience, frankly, that is needed to succeed in an insane world. We're going to be doing some airsoft jiu jitsu when I was hiking firesides. We're going to have some planning sessions and some other challenging surprises that you and your son will probably be talking about for the rest of your life. So if you have a son, a nephew, a mentee, et cetera, between the ages of 8 to 15, I want to invite you to join us September 3rd through the 6th, 2020, on my property in Maine. If you want to know more about the event, want to watch a quick video on our previous events that we've done, you can learn more and also register@orderofmand.com mainevent orderaman.com main event. If you're thinking about it, just do it and do it quickly because I think we only have five spots left at this point. Again, September 3rd through the 6th, 2020 orderaman.com excuse me, I said main event. It's actually orderaman.com legacy order a man.com legacy all right, guys, go get registered after this podcast. For now, I'll get back to it with Ryan.

How do you, how do you begin to like, like, hone it down? I'm just thinking about, like, like you said, I'm, I'm in that, more of that growth stage based on your three tier model there. So for somebody who's like, okay, well, I want to grind, like, you know, maybe, maybe I've got this, this company that I'm working with now and I'm potentially furloughed or going to be laid off or my job is going to go away altogether. And I can see that this presents an opportunity for me to start my own business, but the opportunities are limitless. And I think most people acknowledge that. And because they have so many choices, it's like they don't have any choices because they're just paralyzed by what to choose from.

It's the classic question of what do I sell?

Exactly.

That's the question that someone asks, and forgive me for repeating myself, I'll give some context to make it more interesting. Two steps of business, Find out what people want and sell it to them. Most people, fake entrepreneurs, Internet marketers, they skip step one and they just go straight to step two, which is tell me what to sell and I'll sell it or find something to sell and sell it with no care or thought about who the overall person is. Step one to all of this, even before identifying what you sell, is who do I want to serve? Who is the person that I am focused on serving for a very long time. So for me that's entrepreneurs. So for me, that's people who are going on the new journey of starting a business and starting to develop freedom and autonomy and creation and service. And so when you think about the who behind that, it becomes very easy to identify what that person buys at the beginning of their journey. We did it with yoga in like nine seconds, right?

Very.

We could do it with CrossFit, the same thing, right? Straps, a weightlifting belt, sometimes weights, sometimes an in home gym. Like certain foods, certain supplements, a pre workout, like that was eight seconds and seven products. Right.

You know, I'm thinking of right off the bat as you talk about this. I don't. Are you, do you hunt at all?

I don't.

Okay. So there's this, there's an archer. I, I've been shooting archery now and bow hunting for a couple of years. And there's a guy's name is John Dudley and he, he's a, he's a coach. He's an archery coach. But he's done just a masterful job at this. He shares his ideas and how to get his bow ready and what poundage to use and what arrows and everything else. But the thing that he's done such a phenomenal job at is now he has his own branded line of bows.

Beautiful.

He has his own arrow fletchings and knocks and wraps for arrows. Like, he's done just a phenomenal job about making everything of his process his that people who want to learn how to hunt and want to build their own bows, all they have to do is go buy this and this and this and this and this. And he's got it all lined out there for him. And then he's got the educational instructions and series to back up how to use all that stuff.

That's, that's ex. Nailed it. It's a great example. So he has now made it easier for someone to make the transition or the transformation that they wanted to make by learning a new skill, he's given them the education natural demand becomes, well, now I need to buy this from someone. And you're naturally going to buy from the person who has served you previously to convince you to start this journey.

Yeah.

I'd be curious on anyone who is watching this on YouTube or listening. If Ryan had a product line that served you at the beginning of your experience of becoming the man that you want to be, how many of you would prefer Ryan's products over someone that you had never followed? Or a brand or a, or just a brand list company? I'd be curious for you to give Ryan that feedback.

Yeah, that's interesting because I think we already know the answer. Right, of course. I mean, the reason they're listening to this podcast, at the risk of sounding arrogant, is because they like what me and my guests have to say.

Yeah.

So like, naturally they would, they would appreciate and it's just more genuine, it's more authentic. Again, it's not me hawking a product. It's, hey, here's what I do and here's the tools that I use and I have them available for you if you want them.

Yes, that's exactly right. And the beauty of this is you wouldn't necessarily have to create something brand new. You could like, if you really believed in this journal, for example, and you developed your own, people would prefer. People who followed you would prefer yours over other people's.

Right.

And so you don't necessarily need to invent or create something brand new. It can be almost the same thing that is available elsewhere, but you're doing it in a way that communicates to a specific group of people, which gives them the permission and the trust to start the same journey that you're advocating.

Well, and that's what we've done with our. It's a, it's called a 12 week battle planner. But that's, that's what we've done. I've taken ideas and systems and processes and other journals and planners that I have personally used over the past decade and just got rid of this, added this tweak that changed that, used our nomenclature and our wording based on the conversations I have and how I communicate and just compiled it into one thing. It's not new information. It's just, this is perfect for the way that I communicate and the way that I work. And here you go. And man, that thing has just done so well. So it's a testament to exactly what you're saying.

Yeah. Another example that comes to mind for me is Drew Canole. Drew Canole. He used to teach people how to make smoothies.

Right? Right.

What did he do?

The greens. What is it? What's the name of his company?

So after struggling for years trying to make his video business take off, he just decided, well, if I can't get people to make smoothies, then I'll just make it really easy for them to throw something in water, shake it up and drink it. And he made this product called Organifi.

Organifi. That's what it is.

Organifi is a. It does tens of millions of dollars a year now because he stopped trying to convince someone to go on their journey. And he simply said, let me help you on this journey. Let me develop something that makes this really easy for you to begin this. Let me give you that.

Gateway product that allows you to start making other changes in your life. And that's what Bulletproof Coffee did. It's what organifi did. It's what this example that you brought up in archery did. And that is what is possible in today's world, even if you are not inventing something new.

So is the best thing then. Okay, again, I'm going to rewind to that first stage of, like when I was in that first stage, because I think most people who are listening are probably right there. Would you agree with that? Right?

I would, yeah.

So is the idea then to, okay, so now you have who do I want to serve? Which, if I'm understanding you correctly, is basically yourself 10 years ago, or whatever. Whatever the time horizon is.

Right.

And then is it to look at what you're currently using and say, okay, well, how can I make that thing mine? Like, what am I currently using in my life? Well, I use this planner. I use this microphone. Here's the computer setup I have. Here's what my desk looks like. Here's the furniture in my office or whatever. Right. So identify what you use and then just find it a way to make it available for people.

Very close. Let me back up with one step. Keep this in mind. The book is called 12 months to 1 million. Let's talk about the million. A million dollars is simply this. Four products that sell 25 sales a day at $30. Average price point is a million dollar business.

Yeah, because you talk about 25 sales per day in the book. You into depth on that one.

So if all we have to solve for from a financial standpoint is our four products getting them to 25 sales a day. And having a $30 average price point, that's a million dollar business.

Interesting. So, yeah, it doesn't sound so daunting.

Correct. Yeah. So how do we solve for the first part, the four products? Well, we do that by choosing one specific person who's on a journey. So we've done this with several examples by now. What are those four products that they buy at the beginning of a journey? And then I like to ask, okay, what's the one that we either feel excited about or that would be the natural first thing for that person to purchase? That's going to be our first product. And that first chunk, that first stage, our only goal is to sell one product. So the question becomes, okay, how do we get this made? How do we bring this to market? How do we fund it? How do I take my prototype and make it for sale? And we can talk about that as much as you'd like. The second stage, once we know what that overall product business roadmap is gonna be, is how do I get this to 25 sales a day?

Right.

And if we're confident knowing that we're gonna get there to 25 sales a day, then we can be confident early in the process knowing, okay, I can take the risk and place the order for this inventory. I can take the risk in starting a business because I know I have a roadmap to getting to 25 sales a day.

Right.

How do we get to 25 sales a day? Well, this period, this four months, is kind of like laying the road. It's like building the highway so that we can add more products to it faster and smoother moving forward.

Elon Musk sells more of Cybertruck than he does of.

The Model S because the road's already been paved. Right. He's already got the customer base. He is the exposure. So this stage, this next four months, is about laying the framework, laying the road so we can release more products. And we got to do it with one first. And it is about killing every customer with kindness. It is about screenshotting every review and responding publicly. It is about documenting the whole journey like you have been doing and explaining the decisions that you made about each situation so that there's a customer base that buys into your overall philosophies. It's about saying yes to every opportunity and repeating that process, going all in on your customers until you're at 25 sales a day, and it takes about four hours.

And that's the grind that you're talking about.

That's that second stage where the grind we one sale and in growth, we're taking that and growing it to 25 sales a day. And then that third stage, we now have the road built. And so our job becomes repeating that process over products 2, 3 and 4. And it happens a lot faster now because we have a customer base, we have some exposure, we have some cash flow, we have some experiences, we have some repeat customers, we have customers telling other people about the brand and the business. And so when we've got, when we finish the 12 months, the goal is to have those four products doing 25 sales a day at $30, which is a million dollar business. That's the total roadmap in 12 months.

It's a nice way to break it down because like to me I hear 25 sales. That doesn't sound daunting to me. You know, we probably are that close. Our price point is probably lower because we're probably that close with merchandise which is lower. You know, like $20 hats and things like that.

But for somebody who has never sold anything before, that would sound really daunting. But if you give them that and you've done a. The book like laid it out exactly like, here's how you do it, here's the system, here's the process, here's the roadmap. I was thinking about that the other day because I was talking with one of my kids about when we moved from Utah to Maine. It was like four days of driving time and we hit all the highways. Right. 100 years ago, that would have taken months to get from Utah to Maine. Right. Or years. Yeah, or 40 years. You know, there's people that are spending generations walking around, wandering around in the desert to get to where some place they want to go.

But since the infrastructure is already built, it's like that much easier. So the question is, what is the infrastructure? Is it like, is it social media profiles, is it building up an email newsletter? What are some things that you would suggest is the infrastructure? And maybe even some things that you'd say, yeah, probably like, wait on that, like that's not gonna produce that big of a return for you initially. It might be something down the road.

Yeah, great question. So when you started Order of Man, you probably didn't have 100,000 people who downloaded the first podcast. It took years of acquiring new followers and credibility and people talking about you to develop the asset which was the subscriber feed and then the email list and the credibility and the social media exposure. And now when you do A podcast, you can share it on Instagram, put it on YouTube, and your 130Some thousand subscribers get a notification about it. And so now it's a lot easier to get that exposure. Same is true when you're bringing a product to market. Because at the beginning, you have no customer base, you have no clout, you have no exposure. So how do you build that? We'll build that. What we're going for is first a customer base. And how do we do that? We have to earn trust. We earn trust by being active in the community. I like to hack this with looking at our ideal customer and then making a list of 10 people that we know personally that reflect that target market. So even if you've just got 10 of your homies that look like your ideal customer, and they have 500 followers on Instagram between the 10 of them, that's 5,000 people who are now seeing the exposure of that business. That's enough to get the ball rolling. From that point, we have a little bit of momentum. Even if it's like a sale a day, two sales a week, we now can take our product and reach out to people with a little bit more influence. The person who has a YouTube channel of 5,000 subscribers and sending our product to them with a handwritten note about how their content impacted your life. And you may only even get in contact with 1 out of 10 of them, but you keep pounding that for the exposure. Every time a customer, even the five a week now who are reaching out to you, every time they reach out or leave a review, you are active in that community, you are replying to those comments, you are screenshotting the feedback, you are responding to them publicly, which starts to build up more and more momentum. They then start to leave reviews, which builds up its own momentum on a channel like Amazon. And so you're starting to build relationships, which is one asset. You have the social media or advertising stream that is starting to build up an asset. And you have your positioning on a place like Amazon, that's a zone asset. The one thing that I add to this is using some form of pay per click advertising just so that you are in the game of showing up in front of your ideal customer who's actively hunting for what it is that you're providing. That altogether done consistently over about three months, paves the way for 25 sales a day. It happens very predictably, but at the beginning it feels like you're getting nowhere. And then all of a sudden the momentum starts to kick in and you easily glide into that 25 sales a day.

Interesting. So how do you recommend with funding? Because I know that's a big thing that you address and I know it's something that people are always concerned with. You know, like funding with a business like this is relatively easy. I can fund it myself just because of other successes I've had in the financial industry and other things like that. But I realize not everybody's in that same boat. Like, how do you begin? Do you get outside funding? Do you just bootstrap to the best of your ability? Like, what is it that you do to get that funding?

Yeah, so there's a couple ways to do this. Number one, know that I started my first business with about $600. I took that $600 investment, built a eight figure company and sold it for eight figures in cash. So it doesn't take much. So being okay with bootstrapping it and doing it messy and dirty and ugly, that's step one. It doesn't take that much. Be okay with it being imperfect. You can bootstrap it and figure it out. Number two, if you decide that you need more capital, there's two ways to do that. Number one, go get a prototype, because that makes everything easier. Even if that prototype is a rendered Photoshop image of what your product is going to look like, you now have shown that you've made decisions about the direction that you're going. And you can do one of two things. You can pre sell it through something like Kickstarter or to an audience, or you can partner. Like my buddy Aubrey Marcus created a partnership with Joe Rogan, brought Alpha Brain to market. Aubrey didn't have any clout or any exposure. He just developed the product that Joe wanted. Joe pre sold it all to his audience and that funded the development upon it.

So it's easy. You just partner up with Joe Rogan and you make a million dollars. Like you needed a whole book to tell me that.

Well, listen to this.

One of my mentors, Brian Lee. Brian was the founder of LegalZoom. He was also the founder of the Honest Company and he was the founder of Art of Sport with the late Kobe Bryant.

Okay.

And he's also the principal investor behind Honey, the app. So he is like three or four billion dollar companies on his resume and he's like 45. He's crazy.

Yeah.

His primary strategy is I partner with the person who already has the influence and we develop the product line specifically for the people that they touch. And so he doesn't do the. He doesn't have to worry about that initial grind period, because that person already has the audience and the influence.

Right.

So that is one way to pre sell them. Or you can do the other route.

On that one, though. How do you develop a partnership with somebody who has value to add? Like, we'll just use Joe Rogan as an example. So Joe Rogan obviously has the value to add. Aubrey reaches out to Joe, he's like, hey, I don't like. What value does Aubrey offer that Joe doesn't already have? I think that's what people get hung up in the collaboration efforts, like, what can I possibly give to this individual?

So, I mean, first of all, to be fair, Joe, this is 10 years ago, so.

Yeah, true. Yeah, good point, Good point.

Joe, 10 years ago, not Joe today.

Not Joe today. Yeah, that's a good point.

That's valid. That's one thing to note. The second thing is Aubrey was spending. He was the number one advertiser on the Joe Rogan podcast in an unrelated business, and he did that strategically to open up relationships. Ryan I run a yearly event called the Capitalism Conference and I book the people. I pay their speaking fees like everybody else. I book people that I want to develop relationships with.

Yeah, I mean, it makes sense to do that.

I pay them and they show up. Now, of course, not everybody has that capital. Not everybody has the money to make things happen faster. But in a meeting with Aubrey and Joe Aubry asked the question, joe, what are you really into right now? And Joe said, I'm really into nootropics. And Aubry said, I don't know what that is, but I'm going to go develop the best one in the world. So what he developed was something that was enticing and exciting to the person that they were targeting. And he found the ideal influencer to partner up with, and he gave them equity in the company. Right. So that's one way, and that's a glorified way of doing it. There's another way to fund the whole thing, and that's to bring on a partner who is a capital partner. And if you do that, here's how you do that. You do that first. Having the prototype. Because ideas don't get funded, momentum gets funded. So if you have this thing that you are bringing to market again, even if it's a 3D rendered Photoshopped version of what it is that you're going to bring, you have shown that you've made those decisions that we talk about in the grind. We've identified who the customer is, how we're going to bring it to market, what the product is going to be. And we have a little bit of a product roadmap of what that's going to look like. And if you know and you can confidently say that these four products are going to hit 25 sales a day and I'm confident that I can hit a million dollar business, then it makes absolute sense for someone with capital to put up the 5, 10, 25 grand that it will take in order to fund the development of that business. I just started raising a fund called the capitalism.com fund, which does exactly this. It's funding our students that have that product roadmap and need capital in order to take it to seven figures. Because I totally believe in this stuff. It would make ab. In fact, I did this with a student, her name is Hani. She was traveling in Southeast Asia and her backpack kept breaking. So she went out and developed a backpack that was made specifically for travelers. So it was like a little bit stretchy. You'd throw in your laptop and it wouldn't burst. It had special zips for where your passport goes. And I invested $85,000 in her business. And that was three years ago. A few months ago, she sold it for a seven figure payday. It was a great return for me. She's now a millionaire. Right. It was an obvious win for me because she developed a great product, had a clear product roadmap for a specific person. It was irresistible for me to invest in. And 85,000 was probably overkill. The reason why it was 85,000 instead of 5,000 is because she was already making sales. She was already.

Selling tens of thousands of dollars of product per month. But at the beginning, when your valuation is really low, it's kind of a no brainer for someone, you know to invest 15 grand into the thing that's about to be a million dollar business 12 months from now. And the way that I have found the best way to present yourself to investors is to make a list of people that have had a positive influence on you that you want to get to know more. And these are people who would take a phone call if you scheduled with them.

Okay.

The person at your church that drives a nice car. It's the client that you have a good rapport with that you're curious to work with more. It's the old business partner that you wish you had kept working with. It's the friend who's doing well and you write them a note and you tell them how they have influenced your life. And when you book A meeting with them to catch up with them or to talk about where your lives have taken you. And you tell them, actually I'm looking for opportunities right now and I'm starting this new business and here's the decisions that I've decided to make. And I'd like to know, like right now I'm kind of looking for investors. How would you go about finding investors for a new venture like something like this? And they will either offer them themselves.

Or they will know someone who point you to somebody.

That's it. So that's how you fund the thing. You can either bootstrap it because it doesn't take a whole lot to do this. You can pre sell them, you can partner with someone, or you can bring.

On a capital investor on your, on your capitalism.com fund. Who is it that is qualifying where that money gets invested? Is that you or do you have a team that does that? Who's actually doing that?

Yeah, it's myself curating them and my partner Sam. And we're looking at the financials of these companies and deciding whether or not they have the upside to warrant us investing our own money and those who have entrusted us with, with their money. Right. So it's our own eyes. We give preference to businesses that have crossed a million dollars in sales, have actually shown that they're going to go through this whole process. And then we give preference to those who have crossed that threshold and now need the capital to go from 1 to 10.

Right. Yeah, that's cool. I was just curious if there's like specific things that you're looking for because that would be valuable information for people who are listening is like, okay, we're looking for X, Y and Z. And then you need to ensure that you have X, Y and Z in place if you're looking for that type of funding.

Yeah. So I mean, so we're looking for businesses that have, are at least have the million in sight. We're looking for businesses that are in big markets. So like one of the deals we're gonna is in the coffee market. It's a great product. It's a company called Primal Coffee Creamer. I love it. It's basically, basically keto coffee creamer without the nasty keto positioning.

Like.

Cause everything's keto now. It's like keto air, keto water.

Right.

It's like this really good coffee creamer that. To serve that crowd. So big markets cross the million and ultimately we're betting on the entrepreneur having a big vision to serve a specific person along Their journey. And that requires a specific type of entrepreneur. It requires an entrepreneur who is thinking about bringing something innovative to the marketplace versus the entrepreneur who's thinking about how much money can I make out of this?

Right.

So when that person shows up and they meet the other criteria, that's the person that we want to buy.

Interesting.

So where does this then third component come into play? Gold. Are you talking solely about a buyout? I mean that's obviously an option. Or do you sustain this business forever? Like, is there a strategy that's better than another?

I mean the goal, that third stage of the 12 months to 1 million process is about getting to that million dollar run rate. It's about getting those four products to sell 25 a day so that you're doing $100,000 a month in sales or a million dollars a year in sales. That's enough for you to be full time as an entrepreneur. And in my experience, we didn't pay ourselves until we were pacing that. And so for us, when we started the business that I document in the book, we paid ourselves a salary only when we were pacing a million dollars. And that allowed my partner to quit his job. He was now a full time entrepreneur. And now we're in a position of powerful choice of where do we take this business, where do we take this brand? Where do I want my career as an entrepreneur? What's my vision for this brand? You've now liberated that person to make the next group of hard decisions of what am I going to do next? Which is a journey all on its own.

Yeah, that's cool. I like the practical approach because I mean, I get this question all the time is like, hey man, I want to do something that you're doing. Like how do you get started? And honestly, like, the best answer I have for it is you just get started. You just do it. You just start talking about something you like and then people tell you what they want to buy and then you make that available. And like that's the best advice that I have. Which I wish it was something better. But as I was going through the book, it's like, this is the advice, like do this. This is way better than any advice that I could give you. Mine's just like, just go do it and figure it out. Because that's what I did. But this is way better as the strategy goes.

Well, thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Ryan.

Means a lot.

No, I know the guys that are listening are going to be intrigued by it. And look, if you're Planning on starting a business, whether it's now or sometime down the road or you've ever even just thought about like, oh, what would that look like? Then this is a powerful way to do it. I mean, it's. I've implemented a lot of this stuff just kind of unknowingly. But now that I go through the book and the process, I'm like, oh, okay, that's the next step. Or that's why that didn't work. Or that's why that did work. And so it's been very enlightening for me.

Well, I can tell you, Ryan, you are sitting on a multimillion dollar business. If you decide that that's the route that you want to take, and if I can be a resource for you, I'd consider it a privilege.

I appreciate it, Matt. Yeah. I'll tell you this frankly, and I want everybody to know this. The concern that I have with that is I'm trying to toe the line. And I know it's a toe. It's a small line between.

Like, really going in on the business component of it versus using the business as an opportunity for me to be more engaged in my. With my family, you know, And I know you're a family man, and so I'd be curious about that line of like, at what point does it become so overwhelming and so consuming that although exciting and profitable and fulfilling, it detracts from your other objectives and goals, which in my case is as much emphasis and time with my wife and kids, especially while they're young and at home.

So the way that happens is when you have conflicting focuses or conflicting values. So here's how we fix that for you. Specifically, you said going all in on the business. Let me flip this. Go all in on your audience. Go all in on the man that you are serving. If you go all in on the man that you're serving, then the next logical question is, what does he need most right now? How can I make this easier for him? How can I make this better for him? What should he be consuming, Buying, reading? What should he be doing that he's not doing right now? Because he aligns with me, but I'm not giving him the opportunity to purchase X.

Right.

And when you think about it like that, you realize it's the same person, it's the same journey, it's the same transformation. Now you're just creating a different way and a better and easier way for them to go on that journey that you're already encouraging them to do. They will thank you they will share it voluntarily. And as a result, as the momentum picks up, you simply bring on somebody whose job it is, is to operate that, to free you up, to continue to be the visionary and the one who charges by spending time with his family, which allows you to be liberated, to bring more ideas to your operating partner, who is building that as a business. That is the only. That shift is the only thing you need right now. It's not going all in on your business or going all in on your family, because the question is, you're going all in on your mission, and your mission is to empower men, and it's to be with your family. And one of the ways you do that is by creating products and marketing systems that allow you to serve more men without taking you away from the thing that charges you up.

Right, Right. I think we're gonna have to talk more about that. For sure.

I'd love to.

Right on, man. Well, let me ask you a couple of questions as we close things out today. The first one, I didn't even tell you this because we just got right into the conversation, but the question is, what does it mean to be a man?

A man is.

I run capitalism.com, i'm not afraid to be political. But the.

Yeah, get after it.

Oh, I know. But to me, being a man is someone who is taking responsibility for the impact and the change that he wants to bring to his community. And when you want to create change, it always starts with you. It always starts with the individual.

I like it, man. It's powerful. All right, brother. Well, how do we get a copy of the book? How do we connect with you, learn more about what you're up to?

You can either go to capitalism.combook or you can find it on Amazon. I would say go to Barnes and Noble, but no one can do that right now, so you can just grab it on Amazon or capitalism.com book. My business, my company is capitalism.com. this name of my podcast, and that's where I share my most content as well.

Right on. Thanks, Ryan. Appreciate you coming on, man. I know we've had a friendship over the past several years, and it's been invaluable to me. I mean, not only because of the business stuff, but just because of who you are, how you show up, how you influence and lead. That's inspiring to me. So I appreciate you taking some time today, man.

Dude, it's. It's an honor. Looking at what you've done over the last several years has been inspiring to me. So it's a, it's a privilege to be with, to be with the guys here.

Thanks, brother.

Thanks, Ryan.

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