Kim Constable: “So, Did You Copy Me?”

Hey, friends. Ryan here. You're about to hear a conversation that I had with Kim Constable. And we met on very weird terms. She was accused of copying me, and I reached out to her and asked her to take down some stuff that she had apparently copied from me. And then we had a brief conversation and decided to book this time together to talk about what happened from there. And what I really want you to get out of this is what can happen when you turn a potentially negative situation into something that is super positive. So fast forward. As a result of this conversation, Kim has agreed to promote my book, and I have a new contact, and we're talking about ways that we could potentially work together. So you're going to hear the story and you're going to hear the evolution of the relationship on this chat with Kim. Enjoy.

Kim. Hi.

Hey, how are you?

Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you too.

Well, I've been looking forward to chatting with you. So I want to get kind of the backstory and like the back conversation to this because you and I have never met. No, we have never interacted.

Nope.

We don't think. I don't even know if we have any mutual friends. I'm sure if we went down the rabbit hole long enough, we'd find some.

I would say so, yes. But none that I can think of off the top of my head.

So the way that we were connected was I had about a dozen people DM me or tag me in your comments basically accusing you of copying me. And so that was the frame through which I was introduced to you into your work was, hey, this person I've never heard of looks like they're copying you. And if you look at the logos and the name of our respective offers, there is an uncanny similarity.

There is.

And so I. My interpretation of this was like, oh, cool, I have my first copycat and I reached out to you. I admittedly was a little bit snarky in the way that I introduced. I slid into your DMs, understandably. And that's, you know, my perspective on how we met. And I just want to pause there. And first of all, I don't have no idea how you received any of that or. Or interpret any of that. And I would. I would love to hear.

Sure. I mean, it was funny because the first thing I do when I wake up in the morning is usually about 6am is to go through, you know, you'll have my little system. I check overnight sales and then I check Instagram and then I check email and just know do that little phone system while my husband's sleeping. And so I went through my sales, and I went through. And I clicked on Instagram, and I clicked on this new account that we have, and your message came in immediately. And I was just, you know, whenever you have that heart smell stopping, horrifying, fight or flight moment, and I was just like, oh, my God. So I immediately went and started, like, looking up your. I was like, who is this guy? And what is this that, you know, we're supposed to have done whatever? And then I looked up and I was like, oh, my holy good Lord. I couldn't fucking believe it. I couldn't believe it. Because you're right. Everything you said was true. It was an identical name, 12 months to $1 million and $1 million. And the way that the two was in the middle, you know, that the. Not the word two with the lines on either side, it was almost identical. But here's the thing. I just. I have a policy of complete and utter transparency and honesty. And I just immediately wrote back, and I was like, you're right. I can see they are identical. But, like, I sent you the screenshots. I was like, here's the. Here's the conversation with my designer. I swear to God, it's an unhappy coincidence. We just seem to think along the same lines. It was a brainstorming session that we had that we just came up with a really short name. You know, I can tell the story, and I just apologized and said that we would get it sorted, and we did intend to get it sorted immediately. And we have now started to change everything out. So nothing else is the name of your book anymore, which I'm very happy about.

We decided to collaborate based on what happened in the conversation after that. Because I didn't tell you this part of the story, but when you sent me the screenshots with your designer of you going back and forth and showing the iteration, this instinct kicked in with me of, well, now I want to win, of.

There'S a part of me that's like, I think she's being honest. But now I just have to win, right? So this. This. This, like, this sense of, I don't care if she's right or wrong. I don't care if she did or not. Now I just need to. Now I just need to win and get my point across. And when that happens, I know that I'm operating from a place that, you know, it doesn't matter what's right. It doesn't matter what the. What the intentions are. It doesn't matter what's best for each other, for the world. That's just when your instinct kicks in of, like, now I just need to crush the other person. And that's always ego and selfishness. And so I kind of caught it and just decided I was just gonna let it lie. I wasn't gonna respond. I was like, okay, just gonna let this person do whatever they're doing with this class, and I'm gonna step away from this. And then a few hours later, it was like, you know, I actually think I might be being a dick. I think I might be the asshole here. And so I just sent you a message, essentially giving you my blessing.

Move forward as you will. I realize now that I'm kind of being the dick here. I believe you. Go ahead and move forward. And then you sent me a very, very heartfelt message in which you appreciated that I would like for you to tell your side of that story.

Yeah, I was totally stunned. Ryan. Here's the thing. One of the things that I teach in everything that I do, which is at the heart of everything I do, and all my podcast episodes come back to this life lesson, which is being at work. Cause and I always say to people, whenever you are fully at cause with your triggers, your emotional triggers, what drives you when ego gets in the way? Like, whenever you have a reaction to something, what I do is I pause and I go, oh, wow, I'm having a reaction. And sometimes I indulge it. Sometimes I don't catch it till afterwards. And I go, oh, fuck. I was like, sorry, I have a terrible truck driver Mice, by the way, going, okay, good. And so sometimes then I catch it afterwards, but normally I catch it and I go, wow, that really triggered me. What was it about that that triggered me? And I try then sometimes, you know, you do have to deal with something head on. You go, hey, this person is copying me. You know, but let's separate the emotion from what's actually happening, and let's try and come at it from a less emotional. Because I think that when you react from a place of emotion, you don't often make good decisions. And so I really wasn't. Whenever you came back and you owned it, I was completely stunned because not only is that very, very not common amongst human beings, it's very uncommon amongst men. And I hate to, like, be more, you know, like, bring in the whole gender thing, but women are generally more emotionally aware. And, you know, it's not. It's not okay in our world for men to have emotions. It's becoming better. But, you know, it's not something that I expected from a man. So whenever I got that back, I was really. I was really touched that you had taken the time to do that and that you had owned it, because it was, you know, your book came out first before we launched our masterclass. It did look so similar. It was, you know, unlike I said to you in the message. I was like, regardless of. I didn't want to come off with a whole blame, you know, a whole justification of, oh, well, we did this, and here's why we're keeping it. It was like, there are similarities. Regardless of what I think about it or how it happened or I didn't happen, it has happened. So now we need to fix it. And the fact that you acknowledged my efforts to fix it and saw them as genuine really meant a lot to me. A lot to me that you. But the fact that you owned it. I was like, okay, this dude's different. There's not many people out there. And I think I said that to you. I was like, you know, I can't believe that you've actually owned this because there's very few people who own it. And so that's what really, really hit home to me. And then we start having conversation. It was great. And I was like, oh, wow. Actually, I think we could probably be friends out of this. So it makes a great story as well.

Well, some of my best relationships and friendships and connections have happened on the other side of conflict.

Right.

So sometimes when you're met with conflict, if you're willing to move through that, that creates an even better relationship. That would have happened if you had just met on happy terms. But what struck me about also, what. How he responded was you went and bought the book and started reading it.

Or listening to it, actually, immediately. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Not only that, but I've recommended it to so many people.

Thank you.

So far. And, like, loads of my people have been messaging me and saying. And then loads of people were tagging me going, oh, yeah, this is Ryan Moran's book. And I was like, I know, I know. I didn't realize we're chatting on Thursday. And, like, I was totally. I'm all about transparency and owning something. You know, I. I don't copy people because people copycat me all the time. Like, I have a big online business. You know, it would be insane for me to take someone as successful as you and copy them. It would be. It would be, you know, professional suicide. And so, you know, but I always Believe in transparency. I was like, I did. We're taking steps to fix it. I apologize to Ryan. You know, I was. I was just open and honest with it, but. But I'm really glad that we're here and we're friends and. Well, hopefully we're going to be friends that we're having this conversation, because we.

Still have 30 or 40 minutes. Kim, you never know what could happen.

You never know what can happen here. And I have been warned. You can be a little confrontational in your podcast, to be honest.

Tell me about that. What did you hear about me when you did some research on me?

To be honest, I will be 100%. I've read your book and I started following you on Instagram, and. And that's as far as I've got.

Well, who. Controversial who?

But I feel.

No, I know.

I had a. I had a friend of a friend. I think he must listen to your podcast. And he. And he. So he said to me, he said to her, oh, tell her to beware, because he can be a little confrontational. I was like, here, listen, I can hold my own. I enjoy a bit of confrontation.

I'm totally good with that. No, but I just. I loved your book, and I felt like I got to know you through your book. You're an amazing narrator and you tell stories a lot to illustrate a point. And I think, you know, I love that. Anthony Robbins always says, there's without emotion, there's no information without emotion. People don't retain information without emotion. And I think storytelling is so important for people to really take on what you're saying. But apart from anything like you do, a lot of what I do, I believe, I think we're so similar in so many ways. You break it down into as easy to understand steps. Here's the math, here's the steps, here's the selling. Here's what needs to be done. And that's what I really, really loved. And I was like, this guy, this dude's doing with products what I've been doing online. Like, I listened to your first chapter and I was like, I could have written this chapter. This is what I teach. I think you say market. Market a customer, not a product. I always say, don't market a product. Yeah, sorry. Market a person. I always say, don't market a product. Market a mindset. That's what I've been teaching for years. And so knowing your core customer in that pain point is phenomenal. But also, Ryan, I have to thank you because from reading your book, I now have Three new products which I'm going to create, which we have in the pipeline at the minute. And I was like, okay, get on that one, get a sample for that one, get a sample for that one. On my team are now scrabbling because of it gave me so many ideas for products as well, which, which I didn't have before. So it's been, it's been, it's been phenomenal. It's been the best meeting I've had in a long time.

Good, that's wonderful. So let's compare our models here because you did indicate that what I talk about on the physical business side of things, you're doing in the online or digital side of things. So would you walk us through your model and how it similar or different from my 12 months to 1 million model?

Yeah, well, I mean, so I actually have two businesses effectively now. I have the Sculpted Vegan, which is my, my online fitness empire, if you want to call it that. It's been coined recently and it's always terribly grand. So I like to say it, but I have that. And then I also have, now we have the Million Dollar Mentor, which is the new business that we're launching at the minute. And so what I did was people kept coming to me because I built the Sculpted Vegan from. From zero, from nothing. I had no email list, I had no followers, I had no business. I was a stay at home mom to four young kids. I was a yoga teacher teaching out of my spare bedroom. And I only stepped foot in the gym four years ago at age 37. I'm 41 now. I had never been in a gym before age 37. And in four years, I now own the world's largest online vegan bodybuilding company. We had a turnover of 4 million this year, which doubles every year. Next year we predict 8 million. I mean, I want to have a billion dollar company now. So I built my business very much on instinct. I just did what fel right to me. I made a lot of mistakes. I made a lot of, you know, I had a lot of successes, but I certainly made a lot of mistakes. Cash flow problems, all different kinds of stuff, which I then I made, I got my way out of. But I realized that at the core of what I did, there was a couple of things at the core of what I did. Two things really. @ the core of what I did with the Sculpted Vegan, which I'm now teaching in the Million Dollar Mentor, which was I understand my customer so well. I understand their mindset. I don't Try and sell them a product. I sell. I sell. Like, I was laughing in my webinar. I said, like, you know that my customer doesn't want a workout, a nice hiit workout at home with dumbbells. Like, my customer, like, wants to vomit, puke, shit themselves, leave their soul on the floor and crawl out of the gym on their hands and knees. And that is how I market it. I'm like, if you're a beast, if you are, you know, I have obese women come to me and say, you know, I'm really obese, you know, but would your program work for me? And I go, are you willing to work like a bitch? And they're like, yes. I'm like, are you willing to train like a horse? Yes. You know, and so I ask them these questions. They go, yes, that's me. That's me. Inside, I may look really fat on the outside, but inside I'm an athlete. I go, well, then you're the kind of person wants to join my program. And they come into my program and they're like, yes, yes, this is for me. I belong here. Not because of how they look, Ryan, but because inside they have this athlete screaming to get out. So that is how I started the company. That's how I marketed it. But now what I do is I just look at the questions that I get continually on Instagram, on direct message, on Facebook, and in all my groups, and I look at the problems that they continually have, the things they continually struggle with, and I go, okay, so they're still struggling with meal planning. No matter what I've done, no matter how many times I've taught them, no matter how many podcasts, how many plans, how many whatever I've released, they're still struggling with this. So I was like, meal planning masterclass, team, let's do a meal planning masterclass. Going to be three hours long. We're going to do this, this, this, and this. We put out a meal planning Masterclass. It was three hours long. We made $120,000 in three hours bump. You know, and that's only because I saw they were struggling with that. So I created that exact product to solve that exact problem using those exact words. And I think that whenever I listen to your book, I was like, this is what this guy is teaching. It's like, you know, what is the exact problem you are struggling with? And market that, and you'll speak directly to that person. And that is what I believe I've always done. So that's the first.

Thing. Was it the meal planning product, was it the first product that you launched to this.

Audience? Oh, I launched, God. The first product I launched was three years ago. It was called the Sculpted Vegan program. It was a 12 month program. So what I did was I looked at the market, I studied it. One of my favorite books is Blue Ocean Strategy. Have you ever read it? I loved Blue Ocean Strategy. I read it a few years ago. So I took the Blue Ocean strategy model and I looked at the fitness market and I said, okay, what is everybody else doing? What are price points? How long are the programs? What are the customer touches, you know, points. I looked at all of the different commonalities amongst fitness entrepreneurs in the online sphere and I did the opposite. No one else had a 12 month program. Do you know how many 12 months programs there are now in the fitness program? There wasn't. In the fitness world, there wasn't one single 12 month program in existence three years ago. And neither common. They're all over the place. I was the first because no one had the balls to do it. Everyone else was going, no one's going to buy a 12 month program. And I was going, oh yes they are. When I tell them that's what they need, they're going to buy it. So we launched a 12 month.

Program. I'm sorry to interrupt, but you just hit on something really, really important, which was you did right by the customer, not compared yourself to the.

Marketplace.

Right. So I think this, this trips up so many people when they're, they're listening to the peanut gallery about what product they should do or what program they should release or what business they should build. They're getting the opinions of what everybody else is doing, but everybody else is basing their opinions on what everybody else is doing. Who's basing their opinions on what everybody else is doing. And so it just becomes this echo chamber of people doing the exact same thing. And yet the marketplace rewards what is unique and different. The challenge that many entrepreneurs have when they're doing something unique and different is they don't have a reference point for whether or not it's going to quote work, of course. And so they have a hard time justifying logically while nobody else is doing it this way. But if they would just own the fact that that's the reason it's going to work is because nobody else is doing it this way. And if you know your customer well enough and you are showing up with the intention of giving them the result that they want to get, then yes, they will buy whatever you tell them to buy. Because the point is not the product, it is the transformation of the per. Of the person. Just like you said at the beginning that there is no communication without emotion. People don't understand words, they understand the emotion of what is behind it. It is the same thing when selling to a customer. It is not about the product, is about the way that you connect and help the person that you are serving on the journey where they are going. So the fact that you came out of the gates with a 12 month program was out of your knowing of what the customer needed and wanted, not you comparing yourself to what everybody else is.

Doing. Beautifully said. And do you know what else it was as well? Because I had purchased an online program and it came out of a direct need. I had purchased an online fitness program. But whenever I was young and naive, 37, not young, but I was naive certainly. And.

I had bought to purchase this program and this fitness model had incredible glutes. And the reason why I wanted to build my body was to have incredible glutes. And it was a four week program. So I naively believed at the end of four weeks I was going to have glutes like hers. Because in my mind, why would she sell me a program that wasn't going to give me the results she promised? Because so she was like, well, she says it takes four weeks. It must take four weeks. And of course at the end of four weeks I was left looking at my butt going, it looks no different. What the fuck happened? And so then in that moment I realized I was like, I actually felt like she'd lied to me. No, she hadn't. She hadn't said, in four weeks you will have this. But the promise was implicit in the marketing, in the picture of her and in the um, and you know, and in the program. And so it was. Integrity and honesty is extremely important to me. And so I really felt like she'd lied to me. And I was like, I never want ever anyone who purchases my program to feel like I've lied to them. So I was like, if someone wants to sculpt the body of a Zigafi. Because then I went on stage to. I documented my whole journey to get to the stage in 12 months. And that's what the program was. It was my exact journey. But I. People were going 12 months. And I was going, if you want to change your body, it takes at least 12 months. This is the minimum you need. And they were like, oh. And I knew before I did that that if someone had said that to me, I would have gone, okay, I believe this girl. Because who else has the balls to come out and say it's going to take 12 months. Everyone's going, buy my shiny four week program over here. It's only $97. I was gone. It's going to cost you $1,000 and it's going to take you a minimum of 12 months. Don't sign up if you're not willing to commit. And so they went, okay, you can have my money because I actually believe you. I love that. Where I was listening to an audiobook recently, I think it was Simon Sinek, and he said, people, people may not like what you have to say, but they will respect the fact that you're not afraid to say it. And that always stuck with me. It was actually Brad Blunt on Radical honesty. And that always stuck with me because I've, I've never been afraid to say it. And people, let me tell you, people hate me, Ryan, especially in the vegan bodybuilding world because I'm not vegan enough to be vegan. Apparently they hate me. But let me tell you what.

Do you eat honey or.

Something? Oh, no, I wear cashmere and lather.

So I'm not vegan enough to be vegan. And I do eat honey as well, actually. So they're gonna hit me for that too. And so the thing is. But I was like, well, you know what? I would rather they respect the fact that I'm not afraid to say it than I run around trying to please everybody and hide who I am to make them all happy. I was like, I can only be me. I can't be anything but me. And so that might my willingness to be 100% transparent with who I am and honest in what I said they would get from the program and has, you've no idea how much that's become such a unique selling point for my company, which people absolutely love because they trust me. And people want to buy products and programs from people that they.

Trust. I mean, even when I go through my 12 months to 1 million model, I'm very upfront about the fact that like, the first three to six months are a grind. And the grind is it looks like nothing happens. It looks like you're putting in a ton of effort and there's no payoff. This is where most people quit. You will question your decisions, you will get bad reviews. That makes you normal. And if you get through it, then you're right on pace. Because when you have those four products that come out of the gate and you have a plan for it, you have the audience that is ready for it. Getting each one to 25 sales a day happens very, very quickly. Can happen with a matter of weeks on each product. But most people don't ever get through that six month, that six month period. And the same in fitness, it is the same in dating, it is the same in business. Most people never get through the grind part of it. They're hoping that there's something that carries them through that. So your methodology is the same as mine of going, of really understanding who that person is that you are serving along that journey. Would you tell me about the model in which you are then serving that person? Because I know you focus on some digital products or online businesses versus physical products. So tell me how your model is different than.

Mine? So. Well, you see, it's funny though, because at the minute, I guess that the model that is probably more the model that we use in reality rather than the one that we teach is what we use in the sculpted vegan. What I'm now teaching in the Million Dollar Mentor is kind of, I guess, what we did in the sculpted vegan. Sorry, somebody keeps banging the door downstairs. It's 5pm here, you see, so everybody's leaving the office now. So it's all, it's all busy. So apologies if there's banging in the background. So the model that I'm teaching in the Million Dollar Mentor is kind of, I guess, what we do in the sculpted vegan, but also very much based on numbers and things. But in the sculpted vegan, what we do is we have a core product in the center, which is our sculpt and Shred program. It'18 months long because of course I had to change it once everyone else started bringing out 12 months. I was like, okay, now we need an 18 month program. And now we're the only 18 month program that exists in the world that I know of. So we have a $1500 program in the center of the business. And then every year we do about four launches a year of $97 products. Now those $97 products focus on a very specific pain point. So we have the four week shred. We have the one week shred. We have, we did a 12 week shred. People love the shreds, right? I resisted doing fat loss programs for so long until one day I woke up. What do people want? They want to lose body fat fast. Who do they want to learn it from? A professional athlete. So I, once I started creating shreds, they started selling like hotcakes so we do four product launches a year. Normally we sell around 3,000 programs in the first seven to 10 days of a launch. So each launch we do brings in about $300,000 per launch. And then surrounding that on the outside, we have smaller cost programs. You know, they're called tripwires or self liquidating offers, you know, $9 to kind of $49 programs that we, we would filter through our funnels. But then we also have other programs that we release just to our list that aren't kind of big. You know, all singing, all dancing competitions. Just we look at what the audience wants. We're releasing one in October called Basement Jacked. It's based on home workouts and a home gym. So we look at those and we create supplemental programs. If, you know, my list is so big now that if I, if I release a program such as Basement Jacked, we can make 50 to 100,000 do in 5 to 7 days just releasing it to the list. That's not. We won't do any advertising or whatever. And so those supplemental programs kind of boost cash flow. But the core model is this center program which these other programs that we create filter into. So everyone, you know, so say we sold 3,000 butcamps last time. We had I think 170 or 180 of those upsold into the sculpt and.

Shred. So I have to ask because your accent made me hear, it's either called boot camps or butt camps, and I don't know which one it is. Butt.

Camp. It is butt camp. Because you know what women want? Women want bigger glutes and they want to lose body fat and they want bigger glutes. So I was like, okay, what do they want? They want bigger.

Glutes. I love.

It. Program that gives them bigger glutes and fat.

Loss. So, Kim, you mentioned the email list and I'm so hot on this because email is kind of a dying art for a lot of marketers. They're so obsessed with Facebook ads and TikTok that they forget the thing that is still the highest converting mechanism on the Internet, which is building an email list. So you have, I think you have about 150 or 200,000.

Followers. We have 200,000 contacts a minute. We just deleted 80,000 people off our email list because they hadn't interacted in the last three to six.

Months. You have my attention. Tell me how you built that, because that following is as big as your Instagram. And most people would say they build the audience on Instagram. And then they siphon from that to build the email list. So how did you build both a loyal following on Instagram, but also a matchingly responsive audience via.

Email? Yeah. So what we did was first of all, with the email.

Whenever I ran the first launch for the 12 month sculpted vegan program, I recorded the masterclass. Once I had proof of concept, once we, once I'd done the launch, I made about $52,000 in the launch. So it was the first ever program I had created online. I realized that it worked and people wanted it. We then started running Evergreen ads. So we put it on Evergreen. So we ran ads to the recording and then we did an onboarding email sequence, and then we did a post sales sequence. And so we ran that essentially a webinar model. A webinar model, yes. We spent about 600 pounds a day, about $800 a day. That would have made us two to four sales, about 100, about a hundred sales a month. So we would have about $100,000 a month from that with.

An 18, about a 20, 25, $30,000 ad spent. So it was between 80 and 100,000 for 30,000 spend. It was a no brainer. So the more it was, honestly, we just dou. Ryan, for every dollar I put into ads, we made two dollar back, two dollars back. So now the problem was cash flow because some of it was monthly recurring revenue, not all of it was upfront. But I knew that that monthly recurring revenue was compounding every single month. So I just kept pumping money into those ads. And that was our biggest email list, you know, growth in, in such a short space of time. We were adding about, in the first year, we added 15, on average 15,000 contacts per month to our, to our mailing list in the first year just using that model. And so then once, you know, that was our biggest model, actually. Still is to be honest. We still spend 500 to $1,000, I think maybe $1,000 a day running traffic to that, that webinar model. And then of course then as we ran launches, we did another launch, we would add another 30, 40,000 contacts. And then we started running.

Freebies. You know, obviously we have loads of different freebies as they build up over the years, and then those freebies filter into paid products. But, but that's how we built it. Just advertising Facebook advertising, spending money on Facebook advertising. It is such, It's. I spend 100,000 to about dollars, about $120,000 a month on Facebook advertising.

Currently. And so that's how you've built the list. Is that also how you've built the content audience on Instagram and other places as.

Well? It is. Well, a couple of things I did actually on Instagram. First of all, in the very beginning, I actually used one of those follow unfollow things that used to exist years ago. Like, I started Instagram three years ago, I think. I can't remember what it was called. Stim Social or something. A terrible. People always say, oh, it's such a terrible thing to do because, you know, you're following people just to get the followers. And I was like, well, yeah, because I want followers. So I was always honest about it. People asked me how to deal. People love to lie about stuff like that and go, it just happened organically. I'm like, no, it doesn't happen organically. I paid Stim Social. And to be honest, that grew it to about 50,000 in the beginning, stem social. And those 50,000 were highly engaged. So, yes, it did use a follow on follow, but it really worked for me and I was very clear that I wanted to build an audience on Instagram that was going to buy my stuff. So then once Instagram changed their algorithm and then that all stopped. I actually, I grew it further in big chunks by doing giveaways. Have you ever done the.

Giveaways? I haven't. I've always resisted.

It. Yeah. Well, I actually have quite a friend who runs big giveaway competitions, so I didn't pay for them. He, like, added me to them. He was like, do you want me to add you to the couple giveaways? I was like, yeah, sure, why not? So I think I got like another 30,001 of those. And then he added me another one, another 50,000. And then he did one with Kylie Jenner and it was like, I think I got like. I think I went up to like 380,000, but then it's dropped right back down. So here's the problem with the giveaways, right? The giveaways I have. The giveaways really hurt my engagement. It's not a strategy that I would. It's a. It's a vanity strategy. It's not a strategy that I would recommend for anyone who actually wants to monetize their Instagram. Now, I do make a lot of money through Instagram, but it's taken me a while. It's taken me a long time to really now build it up again because I would gain about a thousand followers a week organically. Because we run a lot of ads, so we run a lot of ads on Instagram, and people then follow me because of that. So I would. I would add a thousand followers a week organically or through paid ads, or just three people. You know, obviously we have so many programs now. People are constantly tagging us and sharing our stuff. But I lose 800 to 1200 followers a week currently. And I know that's from the giveaway. So my following hovers around 224,000 because I'm adding a thousand a week, but I'm losing a thousand a week. So you can say, yes, it got me to a quarter of million. It got me to where I am. My engagement is building up. My stories are watched by 15 to 20,000 people a day. So I do still have good engagement, but it's a hard one because if you asked me, would I go back and do it again? I probably would, to be honest.

But it's also then, you know, sometimes they go down, why am I losing all these fucking followers? And then I go, well, that's because I paid. Well, I didn't actually pay, but that's because I kind of cheated my way to Instagram following. And. And so you have to take the good with the bad. But what's happening now is I think all the followers that you know aren't engaged or interested are dropping off, and then all the ones that are coming in through ads are building super.

Engaged. And so you're placing unfollows with people who are actually engaged in the.

Process. Yes.

Yes. I would like to flip the script a little bit. Tell me a little bit about the physical product brand that you're thinking about, because then I want to put on my advisor hat and see if I can poke holes in your.

Strategy. I almost don't want to tell you because it's so fucking fantastic.

Okay, so.

You see, and I always say to people, never be afraid to just say them straight out. But you know.

What? And here you are afraid to say it straight.

Out. Well, it's. It's not. It's just that it's so freaking amazing. But listen, it doesn't matter. I have so many ideas and. Right, so the first one is. So what do you hear the this? So I used to teach yoga. Right. I was a yoga teacher. And so how many. And I know that you had a yoga business as well from listening to your book. Right, so how many non slip yoga mats do you think there are in the market?

Millions? Yeah. Hundreds? Thousands?

Yeah. Okay, so everyone advertises as non slip yoga mat, sweat wicking yoga mat. Everything's about sweat wicking non slip. You don't want to, you know, you want to make it sound like a beautiful experience. Practicing yoga sweats are kind of an icky thing, right? People don't really want to go, yeah, you're gonna be really sweaty. They want to make sweat seem suave and, you know, cool and whatever. And I was like, no, no, no, fuck that shit. Whenever I was a yoga teacher, do you know what my biggest problem was? Sweaty hands. Sweaty hands. So I am going to launch Ryan, the sweaty hands yoga mat. Stick in your dog head down. Because you know why? People, people will know exactly what the damn thing is. Because when people are looking for yoga mats, they're looking for non slip yoga mats. But there is specific problem is sweaty hands. So if I see the non slip sweat wicking yoga mat or the sweaty hands yoga mat sticking your dog head down, and that's my specific problem, which I know it is for millions and millions of people worldwide, I'm going to choose that.

Problem. So is that product, then what is different about that product versus what you would consider your, your non slip yoga mat? Or are you just marketing it.

Differently? Marketing it.

Differently. Got.

It. Marketing it.

Differently. It's a non slip yoga mat, but it's about specifically for sweaty.

Hands. Specifically for sweaty hands. Like I know exactly the kind of yoga mat that I am going to create because I have one that is absolutely nonstick. So I know exactly the type of one that works every single time. People still arrive to my house, friends and family and go, kim, can I borrow one of your yoga mats? Because I used to have like six of them whenever I taught. They're always stopping in to borrow my yoga mats because they are so nonstick, the minute you put your hands on them, you stick. But nobody's marketing the sweaty hands yoga mat because nobody wants to talk about sweaty hands. But let me tell you, there's nobody doing it. So I just have these instincts for things. Ryan, I don't know whether you do or not, but I'm like, I know that if I saw that as a yoga teacher, the sweaty hands yoga mat, sticking your dog head down, I know that I would go, well, I'm going to buy that one because that's exactly the problem I want to.

Solve. So what's interesting about that is that's not the direction that I thought you were going to go because you have this audience in the vegan market, like your, your brand is the sculpted Vegan. You have 200,000 active contacts doing eating.

Vegan. I also Have a yoga.

Company. Say.

Again? I also have a yoga company called D Yoga Talks. I have an online yoga company as.

Well. So is the audience as responsive on that.

One? I don't market it as much because yoga isn't my passion anymore. But we do sell like, we sell 20 to 30 of the programs a day, you know, 20, 30. It's not an expensive program. It's a $97 program. It just like ticks over. So no, they're not as responsive. But I don't, I don't know that I would market. This isn't something that I actually would market to my list. This is something that I would probably create an entirely new business around a new website and you. Whatever. I do have another product though that I can tell you about which actually is completely in line with my audience. You want to hear.

Me? Sure. Go for.

It. Okay, so do you know one of the biggest problems of fit women these days who have big glutes? Right. So glutes is a massive pain point for women at the minute. Right? Everyone's trying to grow their glutes. And one of the biggest problems that you. Well, for me anyway, every single bloody year is trying to find a bikini bottom that fits. Now this was not a problem for me until I started competing on stage. Whenever you compete on stage and you wear a bikini bottom that is professionally made, that has a four way stretch material with a scrunch bum with fixed sides that is supposed to stick to your glutes and not move, and then you go and put on a regular bikini bottom, you realize just how inadequate they are. So I was like, I need a bikini bottom for fit women. So I went on, I was like, fit girls, bikini bottoms. Got a porn site. Oh, shit, not that one. Okay. Fit girl, girls, glutes, glutes, bikini bottom. I started doing all these searches. All I got were porn sites and, oh, you know, download my photos here, you know, my only fans account. And I was like, what the fuck? And so then I realized there is no, there's, there's Freddie jeans, there's fit jeans, there's, there's fit shorts, there's scrunch bum shorts. Everyone is in the fitness apparel market showing off the glutes. Everything is about showing off the glutes. No one is in the bikini industry doing, hitting on that exact pain point. So I put it out of my audience in my groups and I was like, girls, I'm thinking of doing this. What do you think? And they were like, oh my God, this is a problem for Me every single day. And it comes in line with my product, Daniel. Because what I do is I take professional bodybuilding programs and I make them available to regular people. This is taking the fit of a professional stage bikini and giving it to regular women. And so that like immediately they put it on, they feel like a stage athlete. They're training in the gym, they're basting it, they're lifting weights, they're. They're stepping into that power that they have. And now they have the bikini bottoms to show off the.

Glutes. So if I get, if I can be honest, since you think I'm super controversial, I like this idea way more than I like the yoga.

Mat. Yeah, the yoga mat is kind of just a weepet project, to be.

Honest. Okay. So there's, there's something very specific about that pain point and about that person too. Because my brain would naturally go like, I'm sensitive to the plant based movement. Although I've had some interesting arguments with Colin Campbell and Michael Greger which I can tell you about sometime, but they didn't know what a ketone body was. How can you be a doctor talking about. Anyway, so, so tools of titans. So I'm into the ketones. I'm sensitive to the plant based movement, although I'm not vegan myself. But my brain would have naturally gone to a vegan food line. And I'm also. I love food brands. They have super high valuations. I love to invest in them. But what you're really touching on is not a plant based person. It's somebody who is interested in sculpting a body that is your real person. Like you are a plant based bodybuilder, but your customer is more the bodybuilder than they are the plant based.

Bodybuilder. Percent of my customers are carnivore.

But Daniel, I did that. Sorry, Daniel. I keep calling you Ryan, Daniel because your thing is Ryan. Daniel Moran. Ryan. I did that on purpose. I went after the carnivore who wanted to be exposed. I did it on purpose. So I market. So I purposely call out the, I call them the angry preachy vegans. I call them out constantly on my Instagram. I go these angry, judgmental vegans. Because the reason why carnivores, they're open to exploring or vegetarians, a more plant based way of life. But the minute they, they say to a vegan, oh, you're vegan, I'm considering becoming vegan. Do you not find it hard? It wouldn't be hard. Whenever you think about the Mother who was slaughtered for her calf and they're like, oh.

Fuck. So.

True. Okay, I'm not totally not gonna talk to you about it. Whereas if you have a vegan going, come on in, the water's great, there's gin, it's fun in here. Try it, see how it goes. No judgment. No judgment. In my groups, they come in, they try it, they either like it, they go a little bit more plant based. Sometimes they go full plant based, but there's no judgment. So I actually, I really try and appeal to that market because I want to open them to a new way of thinking through just being an example and being non judgmental and being friendly and fun and making it accessible and not being angry and judgmental and punishing. Who the hell wants to be punished for their choices? When did that ever achieve change in the.

World? This is, this is so. This is such an important distinction because you are very clear about the transformation that you're taking people on. And it is not about becoming plant based. No, it is about a physical body transformation and doing what is right for you. You have your way and you're open to anyone receiving your way regardless of what other journeys they have been on. Most people are not that specific. Most people are not that at cause about what it is that they are trying to do for other people and what they're doing in the world. So this bodybuilder bikini line is so perfect for your audience. And I love the fact that you asked the group, I'm thinking about doing this. What do you think that's the perfect pre launch.

Ever?

Yeah. So how recently did you do that? How recently was that.

Feedback? A week ago? 10 days.

Ago.

Great. Not only that, but I know that. Let me tell you, I have such a loyalty raving fan base that if I release this line, it will fly off the shelves the minute I release it. Because they absolutely and utterly worship me. And I don't say that with any kind of false modesty. I really don't. They do. But you know why they worship me? Because I say to them, you are beautiful, you are wonderful, and you are enough just as you are. And if you want to be better, I can help you with that. And I will give you a, what they call it, a Mama Kim smackdown. I will give you a very loving smackdown, Tell you to shut the fuck up, get into the gym and work harder and I'll kiss you and hug you on the way out the door. You know, so I'll hold them accountable. But I do it in a very Loving way. And I do it in a way that I just say. And they go, oh. And they obsess over things. Women are such obsessors. Oh, when should I eat? To mention this, I'm like, it doesn't matter. But what should I kind of cardio. I should. It doesn't matter. Just do choose something and do it consistently. Just do it consistently. So I give them permission to relax a little. Everyone's so uptight these days. You know, I'm just like, chill out, relax, have fun with it, you know. And then because of that, they just feel very understood and very cared for. And that makes them, that makes them very.

Loyal. I like to tell people that we are the Yoda to other people's Luke Skywalker. But most people spend their time and their content trying to convince other people that they're.

Yoda.

Right? But your job is not to convince other people that you're Yoda, is to convince them that they are Luke.

Skywalker.

Right? And in convincing them that they are Luke Skywalker, you become Yoda. And that's when you build an actually loyal following. So this is, I know this idea is only a week old and it's only had a few days to germinate, but tell me about what you hope that.

Becomes. If anything, I want that to expand into a full product line because I have so many things. Like I love to wear scrunch bum leggings, but women have this specific problem of what they call the sausage underneath their butt cheeks, especially when they hit like 40 or 50 or menopause. Okay, women at 40 and 50 and in menopause and 60, whatever, they still want to feel sexy, they still want to feel young, they want to feel, you know, and try and wear those clothes but not look like mutton dressed as lamb. And so they have these very specific pain points and I can identify every single one of them. But they have this sausage line under their butt. And every time you buy one of those pairs of scrunch bum leggings, they're made for, you know, like a 14 year old who literally has, you know, ass cheeks like a peach. And so you walk and then they ride up and then you're conscious of these lines and you're constantly trying to pull them down. And I was like, seriously, come on, there must be a way to make a pair of scrunch around leggings that stay further down the frickin leg that don't, you know, and I, you know, with longer bits of material. And I've already, you know, Started to develop prototypes and partner with companies. So I'm thinking that I would expand that into a line of apparel, of fitness apparel, aimed specifically. And here, and here is my very specific pain point, or not pain point or what I would say market. A mindset of the customer. My whole ethos, everything I'm about, is about taking professional products and making them available to regular people. All my programs, my programs are designed for bodybuilders. For bodybuilders. People always go, oh my God, that program was the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life. And I'm like, yes, and it should be because you are an athlete when you join my program. So whenever I develop this, I want to make like, you know, a range of clothing, starting with the bikinis, a range of clothing for. Designed for athletes, for regular people. And I want to build that into a full apparel. My husband's going, don't do it. Because you've got this amazing online company, you've got profit margins of 45%. You'd be insane to go into retail. And I'm like, listen, Sarah, I can't remember her surname, Sarah Blakely. She has a billion dollar company from Spanx. And I was like, I want a billion dollar company. I have to expand. So that's where I would like to go with it.

Eventually. The fact of the matter is that it's my opinion that digital businesses are the cash flow and the exposure to seed whatever it is your actual business ends up being. You can have a great cash flow business and you have a great audience and a great lifestyle having digital products. But even Tony Robbins has other businesses that he uses his audience to get equity into. And that's where his wealth is generated. When Tony Robbins talks about how much he is worth, it is not because of ticket sales to unleash the power within. It's not even due to people buying platinum, his $65,000 a year mastermind. It is due to the fact that he has equity in other businesses from his audience that he can influence. I mean, he has a supplement company for goodness sake. So the purpose in my mind, beyond cash flow and exposure, once you have that, is to give you leverage into a physical products brand. That is the asset that you can sell. You're doing well enough in your business to continue living off a 45% profit margin in your existing business, which allows you to go all in on a physical products line that you can build and scale or sell. That's how you become Sara Blakely. It's probably not going to come from selling more digital products. That'll be how you build the audience that seeds the launch of this other.

Brand. Digital businesses are very hard to sell as well. You know, they really are. Do you want to hear another idea that I.

Have? I'm.

Ready. Okay. So, you know, one of the biggest pain points. You wouldn't know this, obviously, being a young, attractive male, but I'll tell you one of the biggest pain points of women my age and slightly older. I'm only 41, so I'm not menopausal, but menopausal menopause is. I get asked continually, every single day about menopause. We're developing menopause programs. We've menopause this, menopause that. And I was like, okay, you know what we need? We need a range of supplements specifically directed at menopausal women, marketed to menopausal women. Pre workouts. BCAAs, you know, things that they would take in the morning or the evening or whatever, specifically designed to build muscle and sculpt fat in menopause. Because women have this belief that they go, oh, I got the middle age spread. It's menopause. And I go, bullshit. You just need to work harder. You know, it's so true. Y. You have to work harder for the same results. It's not menopause that's causing that. It's. It's just, you know, sarcopenia. And I give them all of the science behind it. But menopausal women, Like, I was like. And this all came from your book? This. All of these.

Ideas. I was like, all three of.

Them ideas, you know, And, I mean, I've had them for a while, but I guess I never really thought I would ever go into products. But now I'm like, okay, I need this product and this product and this product. But now I need to replicate me, Ryan, Because I have four children and two current two businesses and many assistants and whatever. But I just. My. I am like. I work 16 hours a day from the minute I wake up to them. And I do three hours training every day. Day, two hours cardio, and an hour in the gym. Well, five days a week. And I am just like, I need to replicate myself. I need another Kim to get all these ideas off the ground. So I need to tell you.

Let'S talk about that, Kim. Let's talk about that. So if. If those things are being driven by excitement, then you follow the one that is the most exciting, because one of those three will break, meaning break in a good way. Will Kind of. And then carry its own momentum. And then you go hire a CEO for that person. That is the new Kim. When you hire a CEO for the product, who builds that thing? If all those things are done out of not enoughness or because there's. You're feeling a lack and more business is going to fix that, then we don't need another Kim. We need Kim to slow the fuck down for you. Which one is it? Are you so excited about them that you want them all to go? Or is it from someplace.

Else? No, it's excitement. I am like, I just wake up every day filled with ideas and excitement and passion and drive. I love my life. And don't get me wrong, I see my kids all. I'm like, I carve out time for my kids. I prioritize things. But what I'm really, really good at is I'm actually really good at prioritizing and really good at outsourcing and hiring. Like, I have a private chef who works at home. I have two housekeepers, not one. We have, like, I have replaced myself in every single area of responsibility. My husband just keeps saying, I need to find someone to have sex with them now. And he's completely redundant.

Sorry, but it's quite funny. But that is not going to happen, by the way. Just put that out there in case anyone becomes an article sculpted vegan person to have sex with her husband. Believe me, they would write that shit. Apparently I'm running some kind of sex cult now. Somebody wrote to me today and said, apparently I'm running a sex cult in. In Ireland. So that was a new one to.

Me. Well, I'm hoping to get to the point where I'm accused of that. So consider yourself having made.

It. Oh, my God, it's hilarious. So what am I saying? So I've outsourced in many, many areas. We have just hired an assistant for my assistant, for my executive assistant, Christina. She's amazing. And I now need to. And we just need to keep hiring so that I can have such incredible people that work for me. But I need now to free up there doing time into more of these times to help me develop the prototypes, help get this, you know, because I don't have the time to source all that. I have the ideas and I know how to do it. But, you know, I have a director of operations. She's great at sourcing stuff. So that is where I need to go with it now. But I just want to keep driving it and driving and driving it. The bikinis are. I have so Many prototypes in the house. I keep putting them all and taking photographs, and this is not here. And getting my husband to take photographs from behind so I can see how this sits. And I'm really, really excited about that one because, dear God, I want that bikini. I want it for.

Myself. That's my favorite idea of the ones. If you need an investor or an advisor for that one, call cousin Ryan. Tell me, Kim, how did you get the prototype so.

Quickly? I ordered it from the company who used to sponsor me and make my bikinis when I was a professional.

Athlete.

Interesting. Would they serve as a manufacturer or are you. Are you seeing what else you.

Know? Well, to be honest, there was a lot. You see, you couldn't. Here's the thing. So I ordered. Well, I had the bikinis anyway, because I used to be sponsored when I was. When I was on stage. So I was putting them on, and I was saying, what is it about these that are different? So I ordered another one that wasn't a stage bikini, that didn't have the sparkles and the, you know, and all the different things on it, and it fit completely differently. So I was like, okay. So without the stage, without the connectors, the diamante connectors, without all of the crystals all over it, which gives it a certain stiffness, the bikini doesn't sit as well. It gathers and it bunches a bit, and it doesn't have the same fit as the ones that I would have worn on stage. So that was a massive learning point for me. I was like, okay, so actually, this needs. I was really excited. I thought, this is going to arrive and I'm going to go to seamstress and go, here's the prototype. And then we're going to fly to. You know, we're going to fly to China, and it's going to be, no, that's not. And then of course, I was like, you're so fucking naive. Have you not learned anything? It's never going to be that easy. So, of course. But now I've begun to look at, you know, why does this one work and why does this one not work? And what we. What do we need to do here? So we. I'm not stealing a concept or stealing an idea. I'm taking something that worked for me and now having to change it to make it work for the regular beach. Because let me tell you, you could not go on the beach. Well, actually, I would, but my husband Ryan won't let me. I was like, I want to wear my stage bikini to the beach. He Was like, please don't. Seriously, people think I'm some kind of Russian ugly arc as it is. Whenever you flank song with your eyelashes and your hair extensions and your, you know, your muscles and your fake boobs and your G string.

Can you imagine walking down the beach with me, Ryan? So I'm not that bad. I'm quite classy. But anyway, so I don't want to walk on the stage. I don't want to have make one with sparkles and that's too in your face. I want to make something that's wearable. So it's about how do we take that, how do we take that stage bikini and I know exactly what needs to happen and transfer that into something that's wearable for a 40 or 50 year old woman that shows, that doesn't bunch and gather and dig into her and give her a double butt, you know, and really market that. So that is my challenge at the minute. Developing that prototype and then having it made obviously and then finding shipping and I don't want to think too far ahead because that makes me nervous. I'm like oh my God, how am I going to do this? I just go scroll back to find the prototype, get the range. We're going to have a thong, a Brazilian and a full cheek so you can choose your separate. So we're going to have a triangle cup, an underwired cup and a thong, a Brazilian and a full cheek. So you can actually make to max. You can set say a large cup, a large triangle cup with a thong bottom and you can choose your.

Match. What's beautiful about this and your approach is as soon as you have a prototype, you can pre sell all of this. You could theoretically crowdfund it without doing a Kickstarter. You can just pre sell them to your audience. We do these promotions where we'll, it's just a first in line promotion where there's no, there's no discount, there is no, there's no bonus to it. It's just we ordered 500 of them. If you want them, here's where you get it. It's gonna take four weeks to get to you and we'll sell out and then we'll use that money to pay for the actual order to be able to maintain the cash flow, to be able to go bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And then it reaches a point where you have enough of a following to where you can launch them to everybody. But pre selling that, that inventory is a beautiful opportunity for you to start getting cash flow in the door even before this thing is.

Ready. Do you know where I'm so lucky? I have the most incredible creative team. Like I have a full time creative director who has won awards like British film awards and all. He makes all of our video content. I have an incredible design team, development and design team who are so talented we can turn around a product. See the million dollar mentor. The million dollar mentor went from idea. When I had the idea for this mentorship like we kind of pre sold it. So we're launching a program next March and I was like OK let's, let's launch a six month mentorship and let's let people watch us build the program. Watch us build our next million dollar program. It went from idea to launch in four weeks and we made a quarter of a million dollars in our first day of.

Launch. Nice.

Work. So you know it's, it's probably be a million dollar launch if we can get Facebook to like the word million. Facebook does not like the word. And so it's. But anyway so we can turn things around really, really quickly. And whenever I said to my team we're going to go into retail, they were, were like oh, we've always wanted to be in retail. And I can model the stuff. I can wear it, I can, you know, so I have all that in place. It's just getting the prototype, getting the inventory and getting it sold. But I know I could pre sell this. My, my people are like take my money, just tell me where to, tell me where to sign and I will buy it now. Because they know that what I put out will be, will be of good quality, will be of the highest possible quality. I will give more than I take always. And I won't let them down. I, they know I won't let them down. They trust me to not let them down. So I'm excited about it. I really am excited about it and I'm glad that we talked about it because it's re energized me again now with that all of, of this shit going on this.

Week. I'm excited for you, Kim. I mean I love that idea and I legitimately think that is that.

Will. I'm open to a conversation, Ryan, if you want to have a wee chat about it.

Cool. I mean if you can afford me, I think I could really help. So Kim, I'm really excited what you're doing. We'll definitely have that.

Conversation. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for.

Sure.

I really enjoyed this conversation.

Kim. It's been.

Great. So I mean and this is just an example of when you realize that there really is no competition, there is only collaboration. Because we met being accused of copying one another. Right. And I was the filter that I.

Had. I copied you. I copied you inadvertently. Let's just put it out.

There. It was uncanny. So having that filter of like, oh, this person's copying you and realizing that there's. I mean, if you were copying me, it's. It's out of your own, like, self.

Nothing about.

Me.

Yeah. And so if we can find a way to collaborate, great. And so the fact that we were able to take that situation and have this conversation and now within an hour talk about, oh, maybe we should powwow on a clothing line is just an example of what it looks like when you take your ego out of it and you realize that. That like, we're all going on this journey together. So I really enjoyed this.

Conversation. Thank you. I've always come for an always had an abundance mindset. I've never been afraid of sharing someone's stuff or collaborating with someone or, or showing them off or. I've never felt that it would take anything away from me. I think that, you know, tribute is one of the highest forms of flattery. You know, being able to actually pay tribute to someone for how they've affected your life, it doesn't make you less of a person. It makes you more of a person. Everybody has a mentor. Everybody learns from everybody else. Else. I think that the more that you can do that, the more you can show that the more people trust you. So I'm exactly of the mindset that you are as well. I think there's enough for everybody in the world and if we all just collaborated, we may all have a little bit more of it, but it's always served me.

Well. Beautiful. Thanks, Kim. It's great to meet.

You. It's great to meet you too. Thank you so much for this.

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