Mark_Sisson_Maximizing_Gene_Expression_For_Entrepreneurs_.mp3

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Hey fastlaners, this is Ryan Daniel Moran with another episode of Freedom Fastlane. I just recently read one of the best books that I have ever read in my life, and I couldn't imagine a more appropriate book to be written for the modern fastlaner entrepreneur. It was written by Mark Sisson and it was called the Primal Connection. And he nailed me to a He talked about the dangers of the habits of sitting in front of a computer for hours on end. He talks about what it's like to on a on a cellular genetic level to isolate ourselves and what it looks like in the modern world when we undo a lot of the healthy habits that we were evolved to participate in on a daily basis. So I basically kicked down a bunch of doors, contacted everyone I know, and said, who can me in touch with Mark Sisson to have him on the podcast. And after much begging, borrowing and stealing and blood, sweat and tears, I was able to get Mark to agree to come on Freedom Fast Lane and talk directly to those of us who are entrepreneurs who have habits of sitting in front of computers and tend to isolate ourselves and work late at night. These are things that are natural to us in our lives but aren't natural to us as far as our genetic code. And you know, you've heard me tell the story a hundred times of several years ago in my early 20s, and I was 21, 22 years old, I went through a difficult time. And part of that was some circumstances, a really nasty breakup, some business challenges, but really it came down to the fact that I was isolating myself and spending up to 12 hours a day in front of a computer. I never went outside. I very rarely saw people that weren't on Facebook or Skype because I worked from home. And I was just unhappy. I felt like I was just spinning my wheels. And when I read the Primal Connection, I finally realized from a biological level what was going on. And I know that I'm not alone. I know that I am not the only entrepreneur out there who tends to sit at a desk and eat snacky food and look at a computer or a cell phone a hundred times a day, check email a thousand times a day. And I know what that has on my happiness. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs know that they're doing it, but they don't even know that it's a problem or they're not even aware of the effects on their cells and on their genes. So this book was a total paradigm shift for me. I'm very pleased and honored to have tracked down Mark and been able to get him on the show. So without any further working this up, enjoy today's episode with Mark Sisson. Hey, fast laners. Welcome to Freedom Fast Lane. Today I am very honored and privileged to be joined by Mark Sisson. Mark, thank you for hanging out with us at Freedom Fast Lane.

Totally my pleasure.

Mark. I told you before the call, I read the Primal Connection. It was one of the best books I have ever read. And I'm going to tell you when you had me, you had me in the first chapter when you talked about the fact that we are more medicated than we've ever been, we're more successful than we've ever been, and yet we're more unhappy and dissatisfied with our lives, it seems. And you said this, you said, what if all of our problems or these physical problems that we feel can be answered at the cellular level? And you had me at that point because I tend to. I'm very into self development. Many Freedom Fast Lane listeners are into self development. We're very financially successful, but yet this emptiness that we feel, if you will, can it be answered at the cellular level? You had me at that point. I was hoping you could comment on that to start.

Well, you know, as a, as a scientist and a researcher, I'm always looking for answers and sometimes answers are hard to come by. And so you can only work in the realm of hypotheses and theories. But.

In the world of science, every bite of food that we take is a hormonal experience. Every thought we think is a neurotransmitter, hormonal experience.

Spending time in the sun is a hormonal experience. And all of these hormones and neurotransmitters and other signaling devices have their effect at the cellular level. There's some manifestation of that biochemistry that creates either a good feeling or a bad feeling. And what I like to do is find out ways that we can tap into the good feelings and reduce or eliminate the bad feelings. Because that's really, in my mind, what life is all about. It's about enjoying the experience. It's about not just enjoying every bite of food you eat, but it's about enjoying other people. It's about enjoying your work, particularly if you're an entrepreneur. It's about having that reason for getting up every morning with excitement and ready to hit the ground running. And all of this does, does have an impact. It all emanates from, from the biochemistry that happens at the cellular level.

Well, in today's world, we, we think we have so much as far as conveniences and as far as control of our time and our resources. Would you comment on kind of the modern changes that are so common today that tend to affect us at the cellular level, that degrade our happiness or erode at our happiness, our enjoyment of now and of our lives?

Well, one example would be for talking about neurotransmitters and hormones. Dopamine, oxytocin. These are chemicals that are released through contact or through eye gazing or through closeness to an individual, and not just with your children or your loved ones, but in a business meeting or in a social setting. And these become completely eliminated and in some cases obviate it when you have Skype, like we're doing now, or you have a cell phone interaction with somebody. You know, as much as I appreciate being able to speak with you from the comfort of my home, I would certainly like to look you in the eye, Ryan, and get that real connection. So we've. We sort of lost that. And not that we've lost it completely, but that we sort of cede control of some of those to the devices. And these are devices that allow us to be very productive. There's no doubt about that. I mean, I make my living transmitting, you know, digital impulses on a blog, but when we come back to the essence of what makes us human, it is this ability to feel, this ability to sense and to derive pleasure and fulfillment and contentment and enjoyment from whatever it is we're doing. So that's one example of how we sort of crafted for ourselves a technology and a technological society that makes us more efficient, but then makes us deficient in areas that are probably most important to our psyche.

Well, I've always noticed that for whatever reason, I could never put my finger on why Mark and I had this question for years, was that my most unhappy days were the days that I spent long hours in front of a computer and didn't see anybody. But I had this excuse. I had Facebook. I had Skype. I had friends all over the world who I can call at any time. But I always said, those are my. For whatever reason, those are my most unhappy days. And at the same time, I would. I knew this about myself, but I didn't know why until I read the Primal Connection, that I would have a surge of creative ideas. I would have a surge of peace and happiness. And for whatever reason, I stopped worrying about money and work so much. When I would be out with friends, when I would be playing football with my guy friends, when I would have lunch or coffee with a Friend. And I could never put my finger on why. Now I know that I'm not alone. I know that most of my audience complains of this same experience. So would you help us explore that?

Sure. I mean, so that's a very real observation that you had, that some of your creativity.

It rises to the surface when you're interacting with someone else. That shared energy, maybe you resonate with, with that person on a particular level. You know, I work out of my house alone, and that allows me the focus to be able to write. I have an office downtown with employees in it, but when I have to create copy and blog posts and whatnot, I would rather be alone to do that. So that keeps me sort of focused on my work, but it also keeps me away from this interaction. So I just. As a habit, even though I could go for a hike alone up in the mountains and experience the nature and experience the smells and all the stuff I talk about in the primal connection, I also feel compelled to go to the gym where I know everybody. And for an hour I can do my workout and interact with actual people and feel my creativity rising with regard to, say, my sense of humor or my ability to, you know, because I don't. You don't really have a sense of humor when you're alone, there's nobody to riff off of, you know, so as a strategy for somebody who's, who's really deeply involved in a tech environment or in a startup environment with very few employees, you know, one thing you might want to do is look at opportunities to mastermind, to network, to get together with other, you know, like minded people. And I do say, you know, pick a circle of friends with whom you resonate. You know, don't just gravitate to somebody because you think they're smarter than you are, but then you have nothing else in common. That can be a. Actually not a good relationship. But, you know, find a circle of friends with whom you resonate and keep them close. Now, historically, and a lot of research has been done in terms of anthropology and social biology about, you know, how many people can we actually have in our lives that we can call close?

Facebook limits the number of friends you can have to 5,000.

Who has 5,000 real friends? So we look at anthropology and we say, well, in the developmental stages of human beings, over two and a half million years, we lived in tribes, we had a family. The extended family might have been 10 or 12 people. That's your close inner circle. Those are people that you would do anything for, that you shared everything with and then it might have expanded to the tribe or the small village of maybe 150, 160 maximum people that you knew in a lifetime. And this is called just because it was researched by a guy named Dunbar. It's called your Dunbar number. So how many people would you include in your Dunbar Number of 150 or 160 people? And once you go outside of that, you know, now you're just bragging about how Many, how many LinkedIn connections you have or how many likes you have on Facebook, you know, and it really doesn't impact you as a person. It might impact your business, it might impact your marketing, but as a person, it doesn't add, and it cannot almost by definition of the, of the, of the biology of the human brain. It really cannot add too much to your contentment, enjoyment, satisfaction and fulfillment.

When I read the Primal Connection, I made a bunch of changes here around my house, here in my office, I have live play plants now, which I didn't have before. I'm recording this with you at my stand up desk. I did something that I promised I would never do and I went out and bought a squatty potty. But one of the things that I've really enjoyed is I started practicing what I call dark nights. It's when I turn off all the artificial light in my house after a certain hour. I might unplug the router, I might unplug the other electronics that are usually plugged in. And I just experience what I call a dark night. And I will. I might light candles or have real light. And I really enjoy those. They feel very primal, if I can use that word. I'd like for you to explain the impact of artificial light on us at a cellular level. Because most of us spend so much time in front of screens, computer screens, cell phones, televisions, whatever it is. And I'd like for you to explain how that impacts us on a cellular level.

Sure. Well, first of all, I'd say that sleep is one of the more important human behaviors in my estimation. And it's certainly grossly overlooked in today's society. It's partly a result of the fact that we have created this artificial light that allows us to stay up late and do things and not miss out on any potential activity, whether it's a new TV show, a new movie that's opening late at night, at midnight, whether it's a nightclub, whether it's just a gathering of friends in some space. With artificial light, we tend to stay up past the time that our genes Expect us to stay up. In other words, historically, humans and this recipe that we all have, this genetic recipe that wants us to be lean and fit and happy and healthy and strong, was forged in a crucible where we went to bed when the sun went down or hung around a fire for a little while, and then woke up when the sun came up. And we had this hardwired diurnal rhythm that really wants to guide us throughout the day. And sleep is the time that we recover and repair and regenerate and renew. So if we compromise this repair process that happens during sleep, it adds up over time. Now, some people will brag, well, you know, I can get away with 4 hours or 5 hours sleep for long periods of time, and I really don't need to sleep that much. And we can sleep when we're dead. And that's, you know, people say that glibly, and yet there's an element of truth to that. So I'm really a big fan of orchestrating your waking and sleeping cycles to the rhythm that naturally is hardwired into our genes. And that would suggest that we not subject ourselves to the blue light that comes from most light bulbs prior to five years ago, the blue light that comes from TV screens or computer screens or digital device screens. And because what happens is the blue light, our brains go through a process. Our pineal glands, every aspect of our sensors in our head, starting with our eyes, but also going to the skin, are aware of wavelengths of light. And normally throughout history, when the sun went down, when the blue light of the sky disappeared, we would have this onset of melatonin. And melatonin is a. Is a wonderful little hormone that has a lot of other benefits to it, but it certainly allows us to get to sleep. It's basically a sleep hormone. So the onset of melatonin is an important part of that rhythm. And we can. We delay it by staying up late and by exposing ourselves to this blue light, we can enhance it. If we turn off all the blue lights, turn the lights down, and just have yellow light or orange light or red light from a candle or a fire, or even changing the light bulbs in your bedroom to the reading lamps, to these yellow or orange lights, and that allows the melatonin to start to be converted. And at some point when it's time to go to bed and actually hit the pillow at 10 or 10:30 or maybe 11, the theory is you fall asleep easier. You. You sleep through the night much more soundly, and you awaken naturally, refreshed, without an alarm clock. So what you're doing is a great application of that thought process which is to, to power down all those blue lights and increase the, the amount of yellow light and decrease light overall. The amount of light overall. And with that means decreasing some of the noise and cacophony of life around us. So not playing loud music, it's not, you know, it doesn't work to put on these, these yellow lights and then play AC DC loud for, you know, for some length of time, but to just sort of naturally get into that restful state. And by the way, you say, well, this is wasted time. I could be playing with my friends, I could be working. Well, you can also be doing some creative meditative process. You could be reading. I read some of the research papers that I read by this type of light before I go to bed because some of those research papers put me to sleep. But the idea is, and it's interesting once you get into that space how like I'll go to a. Out of town travel and I'll go to a, stay in a hotel and I've got to put like a towel over the blue, over the light that emanates from the thermostat because it's, that's enough to. I know that it's, that it's bothering me at some, some level. You know, I want to, I want the room as dark as I can possibly make it.

Well, Mark, is there something to be said about uniqueness of our biological clocks? Is there something to be said about different circadian rhythms? Some people will say I'm more creative when I work late at night. Some people will say I work best really early in the morning. And some people say, hey, I sleep till 11. It's just who I am. Lay off me. So is there something to be said about that or is that more a symptom of underlying habits that have been built up over many years?

I think the answer is yes, there is something to be said for it. And yes, it is probably an artifact of habits that people tend to take on maybe as early as high school where you might stay up late getting work done because you put off, you procrastinated on your homework for a while and you get into a pattern where you stay up late and then you need an alarm clock to get up in the morning. But.

That becomes such a comfortable pattern that you assume that that's the reason that you are most creative at night, for instance. Now there's nothing wrong with that. And there's. I'm not suggesting that there's Good and bad or right and wrong ways to live your life. I'm suggesting that there are choices that we make along the way and there are opportunities here to explore new ways of doing things that may increase the likelihood that you'll be a little bit happier, a little bit more fulfilled, a little bit more mindful. And there are ways to at the same time decrease your risk for heart disease or cancer or anything that's maybe stress related because on a minute to minute or day to day basis, you didn't notice anything untoward happening. But on a long term scale, you know, they're sleeping four or five hours a night for months at a time is going to take effect. It's going to have an effect. And you know, it's. Again, it's. These are just choices. They're not right or wrong. And there are a lot of people have been very successful. I mean, you look at, you know, rock musicians who may look like hell, but they're 80 years old now and they're still kicking it and they've written some of the best stuff ever. And they were, you know, injecting heroin and staying up and drinking a fifth of Jack Daniels and whatever. So you can't really say, well, imagine the stuff they could have written if they'd lived a healthy life. We can't really go there and judge that. But what we can do is say, okay, I want to maximize my utility on earth. I want to maximize my ability to earn an income and provide for my family. I want to maximize my enjoyment of those things. And you look at people who do stay up late and who do burn the candle at both ends. And a lot of times they may be very creative, but they may not be happy either, ultimately, if you get right down to it.

So that's a big distinction that. Those are small words. That's a big distinction between creative and.

Happy or between success and happy. Right? Because some people define success as, you know, having killed it in the music world. And then, you know, they wind up killing themselves because they're not happy.

Right.

Anyway, just, that's the. Really what I do is, is I look at what happens at the level of gene expression in the human body. And I look for these hidden genetic switches that we can turn on or off based on some of the things that we know to be true. Not just from evolution, but from modern genetic science. It shows that certain genes turn on or off based on certain choices that we make in certain inputs. And all I can do is offer up a menu of possibilities to people who Say, well, I think I'll try that. I think I'll try downloading F lux on my computer screen. So if I want to work at night, I'm going to work under a yellow light on the computer and not a blue light. Or I may change out some light bulbs or I might get a stand up desk and try it. And you know, that's, that's really all I'm doing here.

That's a great segue to what I want to ask you next, and that is that there's a big trend right now into what's been lovingly called as biohacking, which is you're finding out these little nuances and trying to work them into what is modernly convenient. And in an emergency situation, I do keep blue blocker glasses on my desk if it's after 6 o' clock or 7 o' clock and it's dark out and I have to send that late night email and I've got my blue blockers on and that helps me not fall into a habit of just sitting at my computer and destroying my melatonin levels. But I can't help but wonder if the idea of biohacking that is so popular today is just perpetuating a problem of trying to do more and more and more and thus defeating the entire purpose entirely. Could you comment on this trend of biohacking and do you see that it has its place or do you see it as just adding to the noise?

That's a very interesting question and observation, Ryan, because I don't like the term biohacking. It has a connotation of cheating or of looking for an unfair advantage against your own body. And you know, I'm all for using modern science and technology and medicine to fix, you know, a bad problem, but to the extent that we're trying to find shortcuts to access creativity because we're taking certain nootropic drugs, you know, to the extent that we're trying to access alpha waves by putting on a device over our heads instead of meditating, I sometimes wonder whether we're again, just. It's a cop out on the long run. We say we want something that's healthy and good and long lasting, but sometimes I think we're going about it the wrong way. So the term biohacking doesn't resonate with me. And yet some people will say, well, Mark, you found the perfect hack for burning fat, or, you know, the perfect hack for having more energy and decreasing your appetite without ever sacrificing a single bite of food. You know, it becomes a semantic thing at that, at that point. I just, I personally don't like the term hacking, but I don't have one. I don't have an alternative for it that would be, you know, less, I don't know, offensive to me.

So you don't have any terms you like any better, Right?

Exactly. No, exactly.

All right, so most of us, most of us new age. New age. I hate the word, the term new age. There, I just did it to myself. Of us entrepreneurs in 2015 are what our mutual friend Abel James calls desk jockeys. And we tend to sit for, for long hours, we tend to work late at night at computer screens. We tend to be very isolated. If you would, would you address those of us who fit that criteria? And I'd like for you to expand upon what habits or what habits we need to unlearn in order to maximize our gene expression, to maximize our quality of life in the primal connection. You list a bunch and I have now adopted most of them. Them. If you saw my office right now, you would, you would see your work in my office. But I would like for you to address the modern entrepreneur who sits at a desk, is isolated, looks at computer screens and just let us know what we need to be mindful of.

Right.

In order to avoid certain things that rob us of our happiness.

Right. So first observation is we don't need to do anything. So people who are at their desk and loving it and living it and are willing to dedicate the next two years to grinding it out to get their startup off the ground, my hat's off to that person. It's not how I would operate. And again, I'm talking about choices here. So what I've elected to do my own personal choices and I'm still in a very aggressive incubator stage on several of my brands and companies. I'm probably working more than I ever have in my 49 years of full time work. I say 49 years. I'm 61. I tell my kids I started working eight hours a day when I was 12, certainly in the summers, not during school, but. So I've had a full time job since I was 12 years old.

But my choice to do this has to allow for my.

Desire to enjoy the process, which includes enjoying my family and spending time with my kids and my wife and my dogs and making and enjoying and eating good food without, without scarfing it down so I can get on to the next email meeting or Skype meeting or whatever. So there's in my way of Thinking and what works ideally for me. I have a stand up desk, for instance, I have a piece of focal upright furniture that I highly recommend. It's an adjustable desk. It's got a leaning post stand with a. So I can take the weight off my feet but still essentially have my hip flexors completely open. As I work at the screen, I stand on a stone mat, a mat that is made of stones and I stand on it barefoot. And I can shift my feet around whenever I want. I never spend more than 20, or I shouldn't say 20. I never spend more than an hour and 20 minutes at that desk without taking a break. I take frequent breaks to go outside, to just get out of the office, to get into a new space, to clear my head, to maybe spend a few minutes on a slack line. Middle of the afternoon, after we speak, I'm going to go take a plunge in my 54 degree pool and air dry in the sun. So I'll get a little vitamin D. Because I will not go without vitamin D. One of the most important aspects to maintaining not just good health, but mood. People who don't have enough vitamin D have a tendency to be much more depressed and have an inability to access a good mood or happy thoughts. So I work on my vitamin D. I would like for people to get outside and go barefoot just to feel the grass and feel the dirt, but also because being bound up in shoes all day has an effect on the Achilles, shortening the Achilles and the calves and.

Causing the muscles of the small muscles of the feet to atrophy. So I'm a big fan of going barefoot whenever you can. And you mentioned the squatty potty. I'm a fan of that. So there are a lot of little things that we can do throughout the day that can improve not just our ability to enjoy life and take breaks and you know, have a sense of humor, but can also improve our productivity. I think sitting at a desk for five, six, seven hours is, can be, can be from, in my case, it can be extremely unproductive. I get my best ideas when I'm out on a paddle board. Yeah. Or when I'm up in the mountains taking a hike. And by the way, as we started off this conversation, I get great ideas when I'm hiking. I get better ideas when I'm hiking with someone else and having a conversation and that's that, you know, so it's almost like an experiment you can do. You go out and alone, you go, you spend an hour in nature and you just, you get rid of all of the extraneous noise and you just hear the wind rushing and the leaves and the birds and whatever, and you go, wow, this is amazing. And I just get a new idea about a new product or a new color that I want to put into my logo or whatever. Well, that's a great opportunity to access creativity, which in my case often gets manifested by a factor of 2 or 3x when I'm with somebody else discussing this, you know, because I've got the nature and I've got the activity of walking, and then I've also got the connection with a real human being.

I have found that to be the case for myself as well. And a few years ago, I say, I want to tell the story. I say, I went through a really hard time a few years ago. But when I analyze it now from the perspective of what was going on on a cellular level, I look at a few years ago, what I was doing with my time was I was working 12 hours a day, but sitting at a computer screen with no one else around. Who the hell wouldn't be going through a hard time if you were isolated most of your time sitting at a computer screen 12 hours a day? And I, I've. I so appreciated you calling out that, that type of an experience inside of the primal connection. And if I'm not a walking spokesperson already, I'll say it again. Basically my entire office in my house has changed since reading the book. And what I have found is I'm not gonna get everything right that has. As far as adapting the modern lifestyle into what is. What we evolved to, to perform in. I'm not going to get it all perfect, but there are things that I can work into my daily life and my daily routine to maximize gene expression, to increase the quality of my life and to make myself more productive. And it all seems to just kind of work and communicate together to create progress.

Absolutely. And if you, at the end of the day when you go to bed, you are sufficiently tired but sufficiently fulfilled because you had a great day and there's nothing weighing on your mind, or there's hopefully very little weighing on your mind that you, you know, that you, that you failed to do for whatever reason, and you've, you're. And you get a good night's sleep and you wake up the next morning and you're just as excited to get back to work because you know that there's fulfillment that comes from doing what you're doing. And you know that there's a, that there's a. Particularly if you're in business, if you're an entrepreneur, that there's a long term goal, but there are daily short term goals. And along the way.

It'S really very beneficial to feel some satisfaction and some contentment every day to say, okay, today was a good day. I don't know what tomorrow holds, but I bet it's going to be another great day.

It's the ability to access those kind of feelings as well and put away the negative thoughts that I think.

Make for a career that keeps you interested and motivated and on target and on track and on goal versus trying to summon up the courage every single day to hit it hard again. And even though I feel like I'm being beat up, so I look for those moments throughout the day when I've got, I've got these wins, I call them these successes, these things I get at the end of the day. And even if it's putting on a fire, it's still a win, it's still a success.

I look at my long term strategy, my long term goals, but I also have to, just to keep my sanity, I have to feel like on a daily basis it was a good day, tomorrow's going to be another good day. And so what I do when I wake up in the morning is I do a little gratitude exercise. And as I'm getting my cup of coffee, I usually walk outside if the weather's conducive. And it almost always is in Malibu. You know, I look out across the view across my backyard and I think how grateful I am for all that I have and all that I've done and my family and my kids and my wife and this great blog that I've built or whatever it is, it's that's resonating with me at that time. I start the day out with some gratitude for having accomplished or achieved or just having included something in my life. And that really gets me off to a great start because it's so easy to take a negative approach and go, oh geez, another day, another dollar. What am I going to do? And where do I start?

Well, Mark, you wrote the Primal Blueprint. You wrote the Primal Connection, one of my probably top five favorite books I've ever read. You also run Mark Staley, apple.com and the Primal Blueprint podcast. Mark, there's just one other thing that impresses me about you that I would like for you to comment on. You have to be the most cut 61 year old I've ever seen in my entire life. How can I age like you Sir.

Well, getting started young helps a lot. You know, I've always been a low body fat guy, partly because I was a marathoner, an elite triathlete in the 70s and 80s. And so, truth be told, I coast off of a lot of that muscle memory and that genetic predetermined ability to, you know, once. Once your body's been there and achieved a certain level of success, it is easier to regain that level of success or it doesn't take as much to maintain it. So what we learn in the Primal blueprint is that 80% of your body composition happens as a result of how you eat. Back to that original opening statement. It's a result of how you manipulate hormones and gene expression to become good at burning fat and burning off your own stored body fat whenever there's no food around. So everybody's got a six pack. It's just. You can't see it on most people. It's just hidden under a spare tire or a winter coat or whatever you want to call it. I sort of prided myself on having really dialed the diet in a long time ago to where I know exactly and intuitively how to eat at every meal, when to stop eating.

When to enjoy the last bite of food and push the plate away and say, you know what? This is awesome. That was enough. That's all I need. I'm completely satisfied. And I know there's more whenever I want it in a few hours.

Well, Mark, you've had a significant impact on my life. Thank you so much for being on Freedom Fast Lane. I was accused by my best friend in college who said that I cultishly love things, including the Cleveland Indians, the TV show Survivor, and certain people that I follow. And my current cult followings are Sam Harris and Mark Sisson. So I'm happy to be in your cult at the moment.

Well, I'm happy to be included along with Sam Harris. Thank you.

So, Mark, thanks for joining us on Freedom Fast Lane. Keep on changing the world, buddy.

Appreciate it. You, too.

You know, there is so much more to freedom than just money. There's so much more to freedom than cash flow and building businesses and growing things. Now, there's something to be said about growing things. There's something to be said about having lots of money in the bank and having incredible cash flow. But we always say that we want those things not just to have them, but because they'll give us a higher quality of life. And yet those of us who are entrepreneurs spend so much time on building these things that we think are important. While neglecting our health and neglecting our ability to enjoy the things that we wanted to enjoy in the first place. That's why I wanted to have Mark on the show. It's why the Priority Primal Connection had such a big impact on my life. Because I realized the things outside of money and finances that were creating stress on my life just from a biological cellular level of what was causing me stress and unhappiness. And what does it matter if you have millions of dollars in the bank if your daily habits are destroying your health and you have no ability to enjoy.

The things that we want to enjoy? So I would recommend every entrepreneur, especially if you sit at a desk and you eat processed food and. Or you isolate yourself to pick up a copy of the Primal Connection. You can get it on Amazon. I got it on audible and listened to it while I was jogging. Or it could be yogging. It might be a soft J. Or while I was in the car. And I would highly encourage every member, Freedom Fast Lane, and every listener of the show to download a copy of the Primal Connection. Thanks for listening to Freedom Fastlane. I'll see you on the next show.