My First Ayahuasca Experience w/ Ryan Daniel Moran #TheOnePercent

I have absolutely zero recommendation for anyone to do ayahuasca or any illegal drug. I just don't have that recommendation.

It was experience that presented itself to me, and I decided to do.

Takes one free person to create change. This is the show for them. We are the creators of the free world. This is capitalism.com, and we are the one.

So I just want to preface this by saying how much I don't want to talk about this topic. The last thing I want to do is be perceived as one of those Austin hippie ayahuasca seekers. So I so don't want to have this conversation. I've asked C. Money to hang out with me and prompt him with some questions about this rather than do traditional podcast where I sit in front of the mic and talk about my experience. Because if that was the case, I just wouldn't do it. I just. I would not have the. I just. I would ignore it. I don't want to talk about it in the sense of, like, I just don't want to be perceived as one of those ayahuasca people. And so I've asked C. Money to help pull out the experience for me a little bit. So. Hey, C. Money.

Hey. Well, happy to help pull some things out.

I know what you mean. Ayahuasca has become this cliche thing that entrepreneurs and people are doing, and they go away and they come back and they're different and they're changed.

Yeah. And they want to tell everybody about it. It's like going to Burning man, which I also do. So I'm on a very slippery slope here. Yeah.

That's the biggest side effect of ayahuasca is you have to tell everybody.

Right. It's not really official unless you told everybody in your.

It's like being vegan or doing CrossFit.

You have to tell everyone. And I just don't want to be one of those people. And I think we should probably preface it with, like, I am of absolutely zero opinion that everyone or anyone should do ayahuasca or any psychedelic. And I'm really like, this is just something I decided to do. And I would actually probably encourage most people not to do it. And there's nothing that you can't learn or achieve or go do on your own through meditation and other spiritual practices. So, like, I don't think most people should go do it, but I had some interesting insights when I did it. Just like you would have insights from any experience that's worth talking about.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, so it sounds like what you're alluding to is that it could be dangerous. Mentally maybe not everyone's good sound of mind. I mean, so it's uncomfortable, it's challenging. You knew going in it was going to be challenging, so why did you do it?

So actually I encourage most people not to do it because most people are not active in a self discovery process.

So most. If I am obsessed with the truth, I, I left my faith in my mid-20s because I no longer believed it was true. I am obsessed with discovering what's true. And as a part of that I have gone down many, many different rabbit holes of testing ideas. Most people don't have that history or that context. So it would be a really bad idea for somebody to just jump into their personal discovery journey by using outside medicines. That's a bad idea.

Varsity level exploration, when you could start with why don't I meditate?

Yes, exactly, exactly.

You know, do some yoga.

Right.

You would not, I need to read some philosophy.

You, you use a good word of varsity. You would not jump into a varsity rugby game if you had never played before.

It's like.

I think football is cool. Why don't I just hop on the.

Field and get tackled?

That would be a bad idea.

Right.

So, but, so I decided to do it because I'm obsessed with the truth and I'm obsessed with discovering everything that I can that leads me closer to conclusions that I believe are true. And I had a friend who is, I would call him my most reasonable friend. He's like my most practical friend. Have really positive experiences and I really trusted his opinion and so I trusted his recommendations. And so I went and saw the same facility facilitator that he saw. And it was a. He does not come from a spiritual background. He comes from a very logical, reasonable, grounded position. And so I trusted his opinion. It was something that I never planned to do, never wanted to do, never expected to do, but he was the one who persuaded me otherwise.

Yeah, that's interesting. I mean the power of referrals, right?

Yeah.

I think that's how it starts with a lot of, a lot of stuff in life is you need somebody to kind of vouch for a process.

And dispel the hesitations.

We're persuaded by other people's experiences.

Yeah, yeah.

That's why before and after stories are the most persuasive ads.

So, yeah, I've got a bunch of questions. I'm not, not sure even where to start, but it was two weeks ago.

Yeah, two weeks.

Pretty fresh on the heels.

And this is perfect timing. Because I'm. I'm now my afterglow is. I'm like back to normal now. Like, I'm back to normal life now. So I can. I think I. I have fully processed the experience. It can speak to it from a.

A grounded place.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, honestly, I feel like I've avoided some of the superficial questions while you were in this higher state of mind and consciousness. Like, for example, you know, everyone was always like, well, did you throw up? And like, did you get diarrhea? And it sounded like it wasn't that bad on you physically.

Yeah.

But I'm curious, like, what did you see visually? And also while we're talking, like, superficial questions, what does an experience like this cost? Because it takes three days and they have to. You're sleeping there. I presume they're giving you some food. So, I mean, what was the experience like? And on just the surface level, what did you feel physically, visually?

It was shockingly affordable.

Less than you'd spend on an info product in a lot of cases. Minus travel.

The. So physically what I experienced was. I did not hallucinate because I thought you would. Yeah. I did not hope it wasn't like.

Like the shrooms.

No, it's not like that. It's not. It's not where I. It's not. You don't see things that aren't there.

So you can almost say it's like a more spiritual MDMA that's putting movies into your head.

Right.

But not open eye movies, only closed eye movies.

So, you know when you are in that. In between sleep and awake state, and it's not like you're seeing things, you're not seeing things that aren't there, but you are having thoughts that are just kind of really weird and random. And you. You're kind of seeing things behind your eyelids that are sort of developing, but it's not like a physical.

You're not seeing an elephant and an elephant's not there. You might be imagining an elephant that has like seven tails. And you know you're dreaming kind of about it, but you're awake, like dreamy space.

You have believe it, but you know it's your imagination.

Yeah.

Sometimes I wake up in the morning and I'm like, was that real? Just a dream?

Yeah, that. That's how ayahuasca is halfway. That's how ayahuasca was for me. Other people might describe it differently. So when you hear, like I had heard, you know, Aubrey talk about anacondas came and ate my arms and my body Died and I disappeared. I thought that maybe I would physically imagine that there were anacondas eating my arms. But that. But. But that, Yeah, I was really terrified going in because of that. But that. I didn't experience that at all. I didn't experience.

I remember there was. I heard a story from Aubrey Marcus. He said that he looked like, to his left, and he saw pure blackness, and his vision and eyes stopped working.

Interesting.

Like, his eyes are open, and it just is pure black.

I did not.

That sounds terrifying.

I did not experience any physical hallucinations, but I would say reality was distorted in the sense that there were times where I would hear sounds and not know where they were coming from.

Things, physical things felt different, but I did not hallucinate or.

Or. Or anything like that.

So let's also just talk about, like, kind of the surface level.

The ingredients of the ayahuasca. Did you have the practitioner just sort of create this brew from scratch? You have, like. I don't know, you have, like, the leaves, and then they have this and that, and they. They condense it down to, like, a shot.

It's like a shot. Yeah.

Of like, raisin flavored.

Yeah. Raisin smoothie is what it tastes like.

Where does someone who creates these experiences find the ingredients? What are the legal ramifications?

I'm honored that you think I know.

So I don't.

Don't ask, don't tell.

I am not the person to ask for this, but my understanding is that the experience is a religious rite, and therefore there. If someone comes from that religion, they are legally allowed to perform that in certain areas. So if you go to areas where that is.

Interesting.

Legal, or it's protected by religious practice, that it's. It's legal. I don't know if that's the case. I don't know. That's true. That's the belief I'm currently operating in. Don't take legal advice from a guy on the Internet, but that's my understanding. So.

Okay, beyond the actual ceremony.

Kind of specifics.

You said that you were kind of beyond just seeing things and hearing things. You're feeling things. So what came up for you on a emotional level, on a personal level, what are you gonna kind of take back into the world?

Well.

I'm having seven thoughts at once, which is very like being on ayahuasca.

The first thing was I felt like I saw myself, but, like, I was watching the movie. It was kind of like you got. You got to be removed from the movie and just watch the movie. And so As a result, you're able to see how other. I was able to see how other people interact with me and what their experience is when they interact with me. And it made me much more aware of how I communicate, how I show up, how I help or hinder other people. I specifically thought of an old business partner who. Which gives me a lot of peace because before I feel like I had to either accept or. Or reject, and now I feel more like it. I have to discover. And it's, ooh.

You have to be. Yeah, yeah.

So it sounded like. It sounds like you went in thinking you were going to do more therapeutic personal development work and you unexpectedly had more of a spiritual.

Well, I don't know. My therapist was pretty damn impressed.

I mean, just look at my notes. Yes, of course I took notes on my experience. I mean, one of the things that came up a lot was just more in kind of the physical world versus the spiritual world was I really wanted to do something about my anxiety because I think we all have low level depression and anxiety at this point. So I feel like I make a lot of anxious decisions and I'm aware of them, but I don't want to do them anymore and I still make them. And so I went in thinking I really would like to do something about anxiety. And the first night, my brain was just like going a thousand miles an hour, like, I just can't stop thinking. And I had the thought like, how the hell is this supposed to help me deal with my anxiety? And then just the thought came to me of this is anxiety. Anxiety is the thoughts racing in your head. Anxiety is the voice in your head who is constantly afraid of something. The voice you're into is constantly judging the voice in your head that is constantly making evaluations about what's right and wrong and good and bad and should and should not and going to help you get better or worse or stack up against other people. It's the comparison and the judging voice that is constantly going that is the source of anxiety. So if you don't take the voice so seriously.

There is no more anxiety. If you remove judgment, there is nothing to be anxious about. And it occurred to me that the reason we feel anxious or the reason that we feel any negative emotion is because we are making a judgment that may or may not be correct. So I judge my body. I may or may not be right about my judgment. I judge what my bank account should look like according to what that is a subjective analysis of what I think should be the case.

And who's Right about that one.

And so that judge in your brain, first of all, is never happy, never satisfied. It can be temporarily quieted when it compares itself to something else and feels better about itself. But that's a weak position, because the minute that changes, now the critical voice is going again, beating yourself up. And it was very much that idea of what Eckhart Tolle talks about, the power of now, of recognizing that there were like two of him. There was the critical voice in his head, and there was the observer of the voice in the head. And all suffering comes from that critical voice in the head that constantly wants to judge and evaluate and compare itself.

So my perspective is it seems like entrepreneurs particularly can use that anxiety as a tool and are terrified of letting go of their edge, because that judgment or that shame or that feeling that they're not enough or they should be.

More.

Could be responsible to where they've gotten up until now. So how do you move forward? Is that something you dip out of and you use the ego when it benefits you, but then you pull it back? I mean, where do you go from here now that you've gotten this kind of insight of like, what true nature of anxiety is for you?

So what you're. A lot of entrepreneurs think that if they kind of heal the wounds that drive them, maybe they won't have drive anymore. Well, first of all, if you're driving from an anxious or you're driving from a scarce place, the more you achieve, the more the scarcity, the more that the anxiousness is now being fed. So when you're driving from a scared place, as you move forward, you just get more scared. That voice just gets louder and it just gets more reinforced. And what I hear a lot of people say is like, I don't want to be happy because unhappiness drives me. That's a fast way to get very, very unhappy. So what I've discovered is that if you become happy and you're operating from a happy place, you tend to create from a healthier place, which somehow makes you more rich. So.

You can create from scarcity, but that usually is creating from a place of achieving a goal, which means I need to get something. But if you're good, like if you are happy, if you're, if you are just cool with what is, you end up creating from abundance, which a lot more people resonate with, which tends to result in better things happening. It's that idea of seek ye first, the kingdom and everything else will be added unto you. Yeah, if you, if you are, if you seek first happiness, fulfillment, presence. Everything that gets created is pure creation. And when it's pure creation, you end up getting the followers or the girls or the things that you want. I was, I was telling my therapist the other day, I was talking about.

The times that I was most.

That I was most like worried about my body was when I was fittest.

Yeah, that's pretty.

Because like if you feel, not if you're judging how you look and then how you look changes, you just continue to judge how you look. But if you're cool with who, if you accept who you are regardless of where you are, then whatever changes you want to make is just a choice. That's all. It's just a choice. And if you're cool with yourself either way. The funny thing is, is that what women want is not an ultra fit dude. What women want more than anything else is a man who knows who he is and is comfortable with who he is.

And when that happens, they don't care about the abs. They legit. In fact they're more likely to go, that guy has some crazy abs. He must be really, really self conscious.

Yeah. I'm hearing that from women more and more that there's like a little red flag. It's like, you know what, it's a nice body, but there's a little hesitancy and like if he has that level of obsession and also might make them insecure, they're like, yeah, oh geez, this guy's perfect. I've got like a little, like a little flab is like. So you're going to judge me now?

Yeah.

But there is this thing of your 8% body fat. Like now you have more to lose, now you're obsessive because one bowl of chili, something could derail.

I friggin love chili.

And I've experienced that too. And I've heard you talk about money and that people get wealthy in order to feel a sense of freedom, that they no longer have to worry about money. And there's a solution of now you have to worry about money more because now you have to think about what am I going to do with it.

Yes.

And what if I lose and am I investing it the right way? And I kind of experienced that in my own life. It's like you get a nice car and now you're worried like somebody going to mess with it.

Yeah.

Get stolen. It's like you start getting more money. It's like, am I, am I doing the right things with it? Should I be doing these stocks or should I be doing that. So we're talking about kind of letting go of attachment to results.

Absolutely. And so I have been thinking more about.

What would I naturally do from abundance anyway. And life gets a lot simpler when that's the case. Life gets a lot easier from that place. And for me, like, if I could do anything, I would just write and talk all day. I would have these conversations, I would write deep things. And you know what's funny, Chris, is like, none of our viral videos as a company have come because I was trying to convert.

Yeah, you gotta come to Capcom this year. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's never come from trying to sell something. It's come from sharing. When I was in a really, really great place.

They're really authentic.

Yeah. And so my work really needs to be staying in that place, which is. Which is doing what makes me happy. What a world. If we could all focus on what made us really happy in spite of the result. And then when we came together with an aligned goal, the result was really clear and fun and easy. That's a cool world.

Well, so tell me more about the journey here. And you got your notes.

Yeah.

It's three days and you. You dose each day. And it sounded like to me, I don't know how much you took that, like, first day was kind of easy. It wasn't as hard as you expected. What was the three day arc?

Yeah, the first, first day, if I had to describe it in a world, was in a word, was frustrating because I was identifying with voice the whole time.

Day two.

Because I had that experience, the facilitator gave me a little before the ceremony and then gave me the full dose at ceremony. We call it a pre dose or a pre workout, if you will. And that helped me.

That allowed me to experience it differently. Day two was really pleasurable. I thought of you a lot. And I had an out of body experience. The out of body experience was a disidentification with all labels. So my experience was.

In order to have an out of body experience, you have to stop identifying with all the things that are physical. So, wow, I sound like a weird, wacky person right now. But.

As I started to disidentify with, like, successful. What happens if we take away all your money, Take away all of your track record? All right, well, I'm still me. I just don't have these outside labels that I identify with. Let's take away healthy. What happens if you're on your deathbed and you have a terminal illness? I'm still me.

Even though I Can't identify as healthy. All these judgments are starting to go away. And then what about Ryan? What if we take away the identification of Ryan? If you don't have that identity anymore and that's just removed.

Who are you then?

Well, it's different for you on that one than most people because you have.

The Persona of Ryan Daniel Moran.

Well, I mean, if I identify as successful and I identify myself as Ryan, what if I couldn't? What if I didn't? I'm still me somehow.

But then the other thing that came in was, all right, well, what if we take away your prized possession? What happens if you take away your daughter? And I experienced what it would be like losing my daughter, which, of course, was immensely painful. But what I learned, that process was that the real pain, pain comes from identifying with something and judging what it is that you identified with. So if I lost my daughter.

And she's gone, I'm not sad for her anymore. She's gone. The suffering for her is over. I'm sad for me and what I lost. I'm sad for me and my identification of what I had. I'm now out of touch with reality. I'm now clinging to what I had or what I identified with, how I saw myself through her existence. But if you.

If you don't identify with that, and I'm not saying don't love things or even don't get attached to things, but if you resist, if you stop resisting what is.

Then you immediately accept what reality is, and I don't have to suffer any longer because I don't identify with my health or my success or my name or my left arm or other people. And so you can just accept what is and create what you want without any attachment to the result. That, to me, was a really, really freeing experience.

Play. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like we're on the playground, and you can go to this for a while and you could make some videos over here for a bit.

Exactly. Exactly.

I can't imagine what that must have been like. I can only assume it's made you more grateful and not taking anything for granted.

Yeah. Because you. Everything that enters in is temporary. Everything that enters in is a blessing.

Well, it's all temporary. Like, we'll be here 100, maybe 200 years of things. Technology goes well.

Right.

But it's all. You know, everyone is so obsessed with, like, legacy kind of in our world. And I think what's interesting about that.

Is.

Even if you leave a great legacy. Well, how long is that? I mean, are Your grandkids still talking about you? And are there great grandkids still talking about you?

Yeah.

Or the great, great kids. And so I heard an interesting story. James Altucher was talking about. He was doing stand up and he said, hey, does anyone know who the president was before Abraham Lincoln? Nobody knew.

Andrew Johnson.

I think it was Buchanan. I think you guys have to Google this.

Oh, Andrew Johnson was after. I'm embarrassed.

But he had a huge role in American society, like leading up to the Civil War. And he, you know, people probably told him, you're never gonna be president. And he worked his way up. He achieved like the highest, you know, position in the country. Here we are now. It's like, who was it?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that, that obsession with leaving a legacy is like.

It's the obsession with living on after you die. It's fear of death.

Grasp of more immortality and fear of death.

And it's, It's. You only believe that if you think that this is all there is.

So did this experience change your ideas about, like, heaven or afterlife? Yeah, I mean, what's.

I didn't believe in life after death three weeks ago.

Really?

That's interesting. And I do know.

Wow.

Wow. So.

And I almost, you know, what's funny is I almost see it as obviously.

Yeah. I almost see it as like, of course.

Well, that's a big shift.

So. So there is.

Let's see if I can explain life after death in two minutes or less.

In our experience of life, we are.

We are a slave to certain rules about our existence as reflected by things like biology and physics. And those are reflections of our reality of the physical world. If consciousness precedes all of that, which I happen to be of the opinion that it does. And I think we could make a rational argument for why consciousness precedes the physical world. But if we assume that, then consciousness exists outside of the confines of things like biology and physics. So when our biology decays and goes away, consciousness remains. And if you're conscious in the physical world, meaning you have consciousness, you experience consciousness, you are consciousness. Then if your physical manifestation of that, your meat suit, goes away, your consciousness remains. It means that life after death or before birth is not a physical experience in the sense of a biological experience, but it means that your consciousness continues. And it might even exist in some other realm that has its own. Own rules, has its own science to it, if you will. Which is why I also think that there might be life on other places that are not Earth. But if it does, we would not be able to observe it because it would be operating in its own set of rules.

Yeah, yeah. Well, there's a. There's a braingasm.

Yeah.

I think.

It'S just, of course, I don't know if we can know. Maybe it'll do another ayahuasca experience and get another glimpse at it. It's just like, what does that mean to go on without your brain and all of the data we've accumulated in this life because we do so strongly identify with the personhood of like, you know, I am Ryan, I am Chris. And so once you leave that behind.

You'Re just like a spirit.

So what is your, what's your question?

Well, what is it? The question is, what does it mean for consciousness to live on without the body? I mean, what does that look like? Is that returning back to God or is it being some sort of angel presence? Yeah, I don't, I don't know. And maybe this is kind of unknowable, but there's something odd about this idea of like, part of me will live on, but it's the part without my brain that is basically we so closely identify with.

There's two analogies that I think are helpful to understand consciousness. One is that consciousness is like a dolphin swimming through the ocean. And the dolphin says, one day, you know what I would like to do? I would like to jump up into the air. I'd like to jump out of the water and come back down. And when the dolphin jumps up out of the water, all of a sudden a bunch of thoughts start coming in. Oh, well, first of all, I just love the view out here. The air is so great. And now I'm worried I'm going to lose all of this. At some point I'm going to start descending back into the water. I'm going to lose this air. I'm going to lose the sight of the trees. I'm going to lose all of everything that I have clung to. And the whole thought pattern about this jump is contained in this three second window. And as the dolphin aims towards back into the water, it's scared to lose everything that it's clung to. But as soon as it hits the water, it goes back home.

And back home is the same place after the jump as before. It's going back into the ocean. I think of life kind of like the jump.

When it's over, you just fold back into what existed before and that's home. And this is such a small window in the context of the ocean that it seems so small.

Visualization, because it's like, like I said, we have a hundred year life within billions of billions of years. And it just makes me want to appreciate that jump because in the grand scheme of things, it is like a little three second jump. Yeah, it's like. Yeah. Just observe the trees and.

Yep.

Breathe in that sunset air.

Enjoy the jump, man.

Appreciate the hard times too, because you can't really appreciate the highs without the lows.

Another, another way to think about consciousness is like a flashlight. You hold a flashlight up, you click it on and it beams out wide and the light goes on and on and on and on forever. But it goes kind of dimmer and dimmer and dimmer as it, as it, as it fades out. So I think of the light coming back to one central place. And in fact, in Genesis, God is the light, the source of light. And then the light creates itself, creates everything else. But the flashlight is like the source, the filament, is that the word? That's where the source of the light that is now beaming out. And it all comes from that source. And somewhere along that expression of light, there are photons that move as wave or particle patterns, depending on how you observe it. But that's like our piece of it. We're like the little photon dancing in the whole total light that is all connected to it all. And it's going on and on and on and on forever expressing itself, expressing what's happening at the source.

And it all goes back to that one central piece and we're all part of it and separate from it all at the same time.

So, you know, it's interesting, we're saying that people who do ayahuasca have these experiences. They feel the need to come back the planet Earth and share.

Share.

Kind of like the takeaways. I mean.

What do you think there is to be learned or applied from an experience like this? It's like, let's say somebody is like, that's cool. I don't want to do any drugs.

Don't.

Please don't.

It's like, what's the practical takeaway.

From it all.

Here? I'll tell you, this is the first thing I looked at in my notes. My big lesson from everything.

Was relax. Literally nothing is under control.

The insight that I had was.

There is no point, there is no end, there's no arrival.

There is, there is no, there's nothing to grasp.

Literally nothing is under control. There's nothing you have to figure out. There's nothing you have to do. There's nothing and no one in control.

So relax.

It's all a game. And none of it matters. In the grand scheme of you arriving at your final destination, none of it matters. It is all equally fine.

At the end of it, we all go back into the same ocean.

Whether that means pure nothingness or that means.

Reintegration into pure consciousness. Whatever your belief is.

At the end, literally none of it matters. None of it. So there's nothing to figure out, and you just get to play the game. And in that context, there's also literally nothing to be afraid of. Nothing. There is nothing to be afraid of because nothing can hurt you.

Nothing can change your destiny in terms of what happens when you die. So there is nothing to be afraid of. There's nowhere to go. You are already fully expressed, so dance in it.

That's the takeaway.

Yeah. I think I get it now, like, why.

People.

Get so much out of it.

And, you know, it's like, you hear about truly enlightened masters who have no fear of death. I think it's because they see it as just a state change.

Yeah.

So, okay, you know, if you want to take my life or if it's come to an end, so be it.

Yeah.

But I think it's freeing, the way you positioned it there.

Of.

I guess when you let go of this, like, I. I have to do this. What if I lose everything?

Right.

It's the opposite. It's a restricting.

Mindset that really holds, I think, all of us back.

And get this. We literally create the things that we don't want by resisting them. We literally create them by resistant. We resist pain, and we create it as a result.

Resistance is the creation of those things. It's just. It's just like Trump. The reason Trump is president is because all people did was talk about how much they wanted to resist him.

They created the constant media noise about him.

Yeah. You know, it's. It's funny how that worked like a. If nobody gave him any attention, it would have gone away.

Right.

But there was so much, like, fear. I was like, what does this mean?

He's. He's.

He's so.

You know, unprofessional. He doesn't speak like other politicians. He's like, I don't know. There's a lot of. A lot of fear that kind of got manifested.

We. We literally create what we resist. We literally.

I hate the word manifest.

I know. It's so, like.

But we force it to happen. Like, we force it to happen. I mean, if you even think of, like, you know, I am afraid of being alone. If you if you resist the idea of being alone, you tend to enter into relationships that you cling to because you're afraid of being alone. What that ends up doing is pushing people away.

And if you're totally cool being alone, isn't it weird how you just naturally sort of connect with people?

So the things we resist are the things that end up driving us. And so, like, the first step is to relax in it. Byron, Katie would say that defense is an act of war. Protection is different. But defense, the literal fight against something, creates it.

It's like the war on drugs. The more we fight something and resist it, the more we literally create it. This idea of if I resist being or feeling alone, I'm going to enter into relationships with this fear attachment to it, which drives people away. And so if I'm just cool being by myself, isn't it weird how we tend to just naturally slip into relationships that nurture us because we don't have that heaviness and that neediness attached to it? So we literally create the things that we resist because we're so charged around them that we. We end up creating the very thing that we don't want. So when you can slide back into that space of just being accepting of what is, you then can create what you want because it's coming from a place of creation rather than a place of resistance.

Yeah, yeah. What you resist persists.

That's true.

That's true.

So going back to normal life, you said integration was challenging and interesting. I hear people talk about that a lot. People say, like, the integration is just as important as the experience. I mean, what has that been like? Is it, like, weird when you come back to normal society among the people who haven't done ayahuasca and are like, you can. You guys don't get it. You guys haven't seen.

No, I would have that experience if.

I didn't do a lot of work, right? But, man, I have. I have that experience of, like, wanting to judge the world. When I see people debating abortion on Facebook.

When I see people mudslinging each other and judging one another, I have the experience of, man, you people just don't. You even. You're so lost in your own noise that you can't even hear one another. That has nothing to do with ayahuasca. That comes from, like, a lot of just empathy and personal work. So I didn't have that sense of coming back to the real world and feeling like I need to. Man, you don't even understand that would. That would, like.

Well, That's.

That would be the judging voice.

That's the sneaky way that the ego reasserts itself into thinking like, oh, now I'm woke. Now I am a psychonaut who's explored the depths of the mind that the most of the population have.

Yeah.

And that's just another way for the ego to again, latch onto something and say, oh, I'm better than you.

If you think you're woke, you're not. And so if we just see that the ego's role is to play judge, is to make evaluations, is to draw comparisons. If you say, I'm woke and you're not.

That'S your judge, that's your ego. You ain't woke.

It made me think of, like.

I have.

I have a family member who is.

I would judge him as being a little bit out of touch with reality. And it made me think, wait a minute, that person might be like, more spiritually advanced from me. Really? Yeah, because he doesn't care what people have accomplished, because he doesn't care what's going on in the world. He's kind of disconnected from it all. He's like, in his own reality. And now I don't know if that's the case, but it gave me the thought, like, wait, is that person, like.

Further along the journey than me because he's content. Yeah, maybe. I really like the quote from Eckhart Tolle where he talks about how in his younger life he was a counselor and he would wake up in the morning, go for a walk, work with a couple clients, make a nice dinner, have a glass of wine and go to bed. And he loved his life. And one day he ran the numbers and realized he was living below the poverty line. Never occurred to him. That's winning.

Yeah.

He never had the thought to compare himself to someone else. He was totally cool in his own experience. I strive to be that. I strive to literally not care about the result because I'm so in the freedom of the doing.

That that is what I strive to accomplish. And when I even think about that now, the numbers are simply reflections of are we doing this appropriately or not?

And if we are, then there's nothing to worry about. And if not, then we need to readjust some things so that we can keep doing the thing that we want to do. That's all. And there's such a freeing sense to that. And it takes a lot of self awareness too.

I remember I met a man at the dmv. Hell on earth. That was so.

Present and just flowing with like, Positive energy and had this big smile and was just calm and relaxed and happy to help people and serve. It really caught me, I'm sure what. And yeah, that's interesting to think about. You know, it's like.

A lot of like monks have found solitude and repetitive tasks and, you know, gardening and doing simple things. It's like maybe there's something to that.

And those are the things you can't judge.

Yeah, yeah, those are the things. Somehow we bought into this story that life is all about like achieving.

Yeah.

And being better than others.

Yeah. It's giving us something to judge so that we can feel better about ourselves. Whether there is nothing to judge. And the fact of the matter is like.

Yeah, I want to be Ryan Gosling. Right. I want to look like Ryan Gosling. I want to act like Ryan Gosling. I want to have Ryan Gosling's bank account. But there are days Ryan Gosling doesn't want to be Ryan Gosling.

On the entrepreneurial world, we all are obsessed with Elon Musk. Elon Musk has said there's days. I don't want to be Elon Musk. I don't want to be Elon Musk. Most of the time you can tell that guy is hurt. You can tell he has a lot of pain. The experience of being Elon Musk, it's not that fun. And yet we all are trying to be Elon. We want the accolades of being Elon. We want the ego boost of being Elon. But even Elon doesn't want to be Elon. We need the Elon's of the world to achieve. But nobody wants that experience.

Yeah, we're all happy that here is doing things and innovating and making Teslas. But the lived experience of the criticism and the pressure and I think more internally that ability to, like you said, have your mind racing with ideas, with self criticism, with feeling like not doing enough or. I mean, I'm still blown away by your conversation with Brian Lee when you asked him if he felt successful and he was like, I don't know. I'm not Elon.

Yeah.

I'm not Zuckerberg.

Do you want to be Elon? Do you want to be Zucks? I don't want to be either of those guys. Yeah, there are aspects of their life that I compare myself to and there are aspects of my life that other people compare.

Compare me to or themselves to me. But the truth is like, what if we just didn't play the comparison game?

What then? Then we're all equal.

Yeah. Yeah.

And now you can do whatever the hell you want. Now you can. Now you're actually free to create, which ends up resulting in the thing that will make you Elon. Yeah, but you don't get to be Elon. Trying to be Elon.

Yeah. Did you ever hear that story about him where his ex wife responded to someone on Quora? You know, that question? Like, it's a website called Quora where people ask questions. And they were like, someone asked, like, I want to be like a Rockefeller, like an Elon Musk, or like a Bill Gates, but, you know, I just don't know where to start, what business model to do. And his ex wife. His literally, his actual ex wife wrote a response, and she said, well, first of all, Elon Musk wouldn't be on some forum asking people.

Yeah.

And basically just kind of laid out like, look, you know, he has an obsessive nature which most people would not envy or want to be in. And that's part of what broke up their marriage, is he's so obsessed with work, and he wants us to go on Mars, and he wants to change so much. And she couldn't hang in there. She's like, they're good friends. She still loves him as a friend, but was just putting it out and was like, look, he wouldn't be on some forum asking people.

But you said, you think I might be ready to do ayahuasca? So.

Who do you think it would be a good experience for?

No, sorry, I don't.

I mean, why. Why do you think I'm ready or. Or who else do you think? What.

Is it just, like, when you know. You know, if you're ready for that journey, you take that step?

Well, no matter how I answer this question, it's gonna sound like a recommendation to someone.

Well, it shouldn't be an endorsement or recommendation, so.

Wow. I have literally no way to answer this question.

I don't think anyone should do anything that they don't feel called and compelled to do. I don't know how else to answer that question.

My experience of you has been that you've grown immensely over the last year. And so someone like you, who has been putting in a lot of work, might be ready to look at other ways to grow or other ways to experience life because you can handle whatever is presented in front of you.

I don't know that I'll ever do it again. I might. Maybe I'll do it 70 times, like some people that we know. I don't know. I don't think about it. To be honest with you.

I don't recommend it. It's just like, it's hard to find a place to do it. Yeah. That was probably the question I most obviously dodged ever.

It sounded like. I think people know the set and setting is really important, but it sounded to me like the shaman and like co Shaman also was very important to make sure you had a experience that was useful.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, there are plenty of people who seek it out and find an, you know, a fake shaman on Craigslist.

Shaman.

I used to tell people, they're like, where are you doing ayahuasca? I was like, oh, I just found some guy on Craigslist. Oh.

Yeah. It's. I mean.

I have absolutely zero recommendation for anyone to do ayahuasca or any illegal drug. I just don't have that recommendation.

It was experience that presented itself to me and I decided to do it. Yeah.

It's kind of like. It's funny you're saying, like, yeah, oh, it's Craigslist. In the video world, in the filmmaking world, there's this kind of running joke that if you're, like, shooting something and you don't really want to tell anyone what it's about, you see, it's a mayonnaise commercial and they won't ask any more questions. Okay.

Okay. It's the most boring thing ever. Yeah.

So, yeah, if you feel called, then.

I feel like you're trying to. You're waiting for my call to action. Like, if you feel called, call 1-800-Iowa.

Those old commercials, like, with blue.

Call to action.

I mean, really, my call to action is like.

Stop making it so hard.

I make life so hard.

And I think we all do. I make life so hard because I set the rules of what is required for me to be happy. Are so specific that if I fall short of them, I feel miserable. Yeah. And we do this to ourselves all the time because we are constantly judging ourselves and other people through what we see on social media, through what we see on the news. We are constantly playing this judgment game about everything. And it's a game you can't win. And so I. I am practicing. I'm practicing leaving that game of opting out of that game.

Yeah.

And doing my thing just because I want to do the thing. And other people will judge and I will not. I don't have to be affected by how other people judge it because I'm good and I don't judge your judgment. That, to me, is freedom that allows you to just be doing the Thing that you want, that's when you've won. Because you can literally create whatever it is that you want when you're in that place.

Yeah. Yeah.

In our entrepreneurial world, every time I meet other people, they always say, what are you up to right now? My answer now is, I am practicing being happy.

Because that is what we all want. Happiness is the game we're after.

Yeah.

And business is one of the ways that I am happy. The minute that I am out of alignment between those two things, if business isn't making me happy, something's wrong. And so literally, my game is I'm practicing being happy. And business is a part of that.

Yeah. It's like the result behind the result. You ask people questions. It's like, what do you really want? It's a question behind the question.

And I know you've spoken a lot about freedom. Freedom to freedom from.

Yeah.

But even that is all about happiness.

Yeah.

I want to be free from this so I can be happy. I want to free to do this thing.

Yeah.

So I can be happy.

And. And happiness is often confused with content. With excitement.

Yeah.

Which is a temporary belief, a temporary experience. A more appropriate word for happiness is contentment. Just a more appropriate description of is pleasure with what is. Enjoyment of what is Acceptance of what is.

It's funny, when you say contentment, I get this image. It sounds to me like being with, like, friends and loved ones, like, on the water. If we've all got, like, a shared goal, working together, hanging out, growing alongside each other.

Yeah. That's happiness.

And that's also kind of what we're doing, what we're doing next week for our company, corporate. But that's, you know.

If you feel me trying to squeeze out some takeaways, it's because my job is to, like, squeeze some actionable stuff out of Ryan. But one of the things that seems like it came up a lot.

Is this idea of, like, business as a tool, like you're saying, but also business as, like, an extended family, and that you had different team members come up through the Ayahuasca ceremony. So do you look at business different in terms of that? You've said a lot before that you get your emotional needs sometimes met through business.

So, I mean, how are you coming out of this experience differently, if at all, with, like, as a leader? Yeah.

Yeah. I feel very different as a leader as a result, because one of the things that occurred to me was that if I want to become all that I want to be, I have to in the process, empower other people to do the same. And I realize now that what I had done in the past was pull other people along with me, when in reality, what I needed was to say where the line was and call people to the line, and when they fell short, yell louder and let them come to.

To. To. To a line that I'm holding in.

Terms of, like, a little bit more like pulling and less like pushing. But it also sounds a lot like just lighting fires.

Yeah, it's.

You talked about lighting fires for entrepreneurs, but there's also lighting fires, like, for your team.

Yeah. That's called leading.

Yeah.

Like, you're. You're here saying, we're going there. And what I used to do was stop pointing and go get the guy and drag them. And everybody else is like, what do we do? And it's my job to go, we're going there, we're going there, we're going there. And to call people into that experience, that's leadership. And I was going in and saving a lot of people on the team, and that wasn't fair to me or them because now they don't have the experience of getting better.

Yeah. So what happens if you never take the training wheels off?

Yeah.

Never really learn how to ride on your own.

Yeah. Yeah. You get a kid that is never really allowed to become an adult.

Yeah.

But a lot of parents get their ego filled by keeping the kid needing them. It's not your job.

Too safe.

Yeah.

No ability to fall, scrape your knee, get up, learn something, and, you know.

So it's my job as a leader to set the overall vision. The overall vision for their role and to hold them accountable for that, and that's leadership.

So, speaking of, do you have any, like.

Different feelings about capitalism and the need for capitalism and it's this kind of perception in society? I mean, do you just feel like. Do you feel more energized about what we're doing after the experience.

As a company? Yes.

Capitalism is a concept in society.

Oh, I feel that.

Did you kind of.

I feel. I feel now you're like, so what?

Push us towards that direction.

So kind of the undercurrent that I'm hearing is, after having a hippie experience, do you relax the marriage to capitalism at all?

I mean, not necessarily. I think there's a conception that people will become super hippie, but what I've seen is people tend to become more of themselves.

Mm.

I. I feel more energized about what we're doing as a result of the experience. And as a capitalism, the Concept. I still to this day say that capitalism is simply the system through which we exercise freedom.

And. And freedom requires people be responsible, not coddled.

Yeah.

And that is a more difficult sell because people have to step up. And I think that's exactly what the world needs.

I mean, what's. What's beautiful to me about capitalism from, like, a spiritual level is it seems like the natural order and state of things. It doesn't feel imposed by man, but.

You know, like, tariffs or, like, you know, taxes. These are things that are, like, created by government structures. Right. We don't need, like, any kind of government to say, like, hey, I made this painting. Would you be willing to part with something that you think is worth. You know, there's something very pure and free about that.

Yeah. The purpose of government is to set the rules through which we practice freedom. And as few rules as possible, as few constraints as possible that keep people protected, to keep doing their thing. All right, I have to pee.

Right, let's do it.

Thanks, Sea Money.

I have no way to. To end that. So. What? What? Actually, one more. One more point. I had a lot of takeaways on my old faith and religion on this. And I kept bringing up the idea of judgment. And I used to view God as the outside judge judging me.

Yeah.

But what that really was was my internal judge judging myself. The perspective that God is outside ourselves judging us is actually our internal projection of him, which is a judgment of ourselves. And now I can see that people who have that very deep desire to judge other people are actually just judging themselves. They're judging their own filter through which they see the world. If you really want to be free, you have to let go of judgment. And that is a very humbling thing, but I think it means everything to your overall happiness.

So I think you were, like. A lot of us believed that growing up because you were taught that God external, outside of ourselves. I mean, does that make you think about.

How to. How to raise Esther as a father and what kind of spiritual teachings he might.

Well, I already. I feel like I'm in such a good place there because I don't put any expectations on Esther. Yeah.

I don't care what she grows up to be. I. I care that she grows up to be humble, kind, caring, present, happy. But I don't care if she's an entrepreneur. I don't care if she's a mom. I don't care if she's married. I don't care. I have zero expectations on her. And so I think the. The presentation of there being a judgmental God in the sky, she'll say, like, what is. How can you say. She'll have no reference point for that, I think, I hope. And so I feel in a pretty good spot about that. I think most parents tend to.

Judge their kids because they've conditioned themselves to judge themselves and they think it would thus be better for their kids to be something different. And so they just pass on the judgment to generation to generate generation to generation. So if you forgive yourself, then you have the freedom to not judge other people, which allows them to be who they want to be. Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, now I'm going to go pee.

All right.

Good chat. See Money.

Okay.

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