Russell Brunson Q&A: Building Your Avengers Team, Funnels, and Expert Secrets

So many of us have these amazing stories, but for some reason, we think that to get people or our customers to like us, we need to be postured in a certain way, right? So we come out, we're posturing. We're trying to, like, be cool and, like. And what's interesting is, like, that posturing is what actually drives people away from you and drives connection away from you.

You're listening to Freedom Fast Lane, presented by capitalism dot com. This is the show about building businesses and investing the profits so that you can live life on your terms.

Hey, fastlaners. One of our biggest speakers, Russell Brunson, the original funnel hacker himself, was a big hit at the Capitalism conference. After his presentation, he sat down with Ryan Moran for a Q and A. They talked about team building, work, life, balance as an entrepreneur burnout, and his strategies for how he built the massively successful click funnels. Hope you enjoy.

You know, usually I come to a Q and A, like, ready to go? I'm like, I have every question I could ever ask answered. So I like, there's already people lining up. I have no plans to go to the audience for Q and A just in case.

So.

I'm just gonna mess with them and see how many people stay there. I have no idea if we're gonna get to you or not. This is fun messing with the audience like this. Anyway, Russell, the biggest question I have is about team. So, I mean, they're simple and easy to understand, but there's also a process, and there's testing involved and there's measurement involved. So what do you think a team needs to look like to be able to execute this?

Well, cool.

In this business, as a lot of you guys know, there's like, the art and the science of it, right? And it's tough for most entrepreneurs. Cause usually we skew one way or the other. Either we're more like the art side or, like, the creative, or you're more like the math side. And it's very rare to find people who can do both. And I am such a big believer in building a team. We talked about this on the podcast. Like, my business has always struggled. When I was like, it was my business, and it was always Russell's business. And four years ago, Todd Dickerson sitting over there, we started mapping out the idea for Click Funnels. And he was like, today, and we were working together a bunch of projects. He was like, I want to be a partner on this business. And I was like. And normally I would be like, no. Like, this is like, I'm Russell, this is my business. And I was like, you know what? Todd's a freaking amazing. Yes, you can be my partner on the business. And we decided to split it. And everything good came because of that. We started bringing other partners. We gave them equity and started. And so I'm a big believer now in, like, before I go into any business. Like, I. Like we talked about this this week and we had a big partner planning meeting. Like, and then we went and watched Justice League, right? Ever. So if you're on DC or Marvel, doesn't matter. But either Avengers or Justice League, like, you gotta build your own Avengers team, your own Justice League team, right? Because, like, there's things I'm amazing at, there's things I'm horrible at. And you can go, I don't know, I'm not a big believer. You can hire people to do stuff, but it's harder as opposed to, like, if you're gonna build a company, find like, who's the best person at like, the creatives of the video, who's the best person in the analytics, who's the best people, and figure out what you're good at, and then bring those other people around and build a team of rockstars. And I think there's an article we were reading. It's like an A level players were 3200 times more than a B level. It's like three or four good partners on a team was more than a team. And that's how we've been studying Salesforce. That's the company I've been studying a lot recently. When they were at the revenue level we were at, they had like 850 employees. We've got 120. And it's just because we brought amazing people in where one human can do the work of like 10 or 15. So building team is just. It's finding people that like, I think first understanding, like to make this work, we need someone that can drive traffic. We need someone who can do the creative, we need someone who can do the analytics, someone who can do the development. Like finding those people and building your Avengers team and then going, creating it and then launching.

Yeah, let's war game this for a second. Because there's a lot of two to six men or women teams in the audience who are selling product, doing well, have a seven figure business, and the perception is great. I'm just gonna bolt a funnel onto this. I'll outsource the thing and it'll make money and we'll just drive traffic and we'll double Our revenue, It'll be great. And there's a few people who have played that have seen that episode before, when in reality, that's another. That is a business model. Funnels are a business model. So who do you think are the key people that need to be on the team to be able to bolt on a funnel to an existing business?

Building a funnel is actually the easy part. The hardest part is, like, the messaging and the positioning of that. Especially a lot of people I know who come from E. Comm. It's like, let's say you listen on Amazon, you have a headline, like five or six bullet points in an image. Like, that's what you're used to, Right. If I want to go from selling.

Used to selling a spatula rather than developing the business.

Exactly. And if I want to, it comes back to, like, if I want to sell $100 security system, that's what I got to do. If I want to sell $100,000 security system, I learn to sell it. So you're someone who can sell it, and it could be, you know, someone selling, like a pitch person, or it could be someone. A good copyright. It doesn't really matter. There's different ways to sell. Right. But it's finding, like, the salesperson, I think, is one of the biggest keys in this. Because the structure of the funnel is not hard. I can show all you guys, like, hey, here's the process. You just take them through. And that's easy. But it's like getting people to buy on each page, it takes a little bit more. It takes either a good video, good copy, good sales that are good, something to actually convince them. Because typically, like, I look at stuff we sell on Amazon versus in the funnel, like, I'll sell something I'm selling for 20 bucks on Amazon, I'll sell for 80 bucks on a funnel. So it's four or five times more expensive. So I got to sell that better. And so finding some really good sales and then finding someone who can do the testing. Todd, again, my partner, we have a fun game where I'm like the creative guy, so I try to build the best possible thing that I'm like, there's no way you can beat this. And he logs in, sets up a couple split tests, and I think he's beat me every time at the end of it, but we both win when he wins. But it's like finding someone who can do the analytical stuff of that, that stresses me out and doing that as well.

I'm sure you've dealt with a Lot of students or mastermind partners who come to you with like, they think that they have the funnel didn't work. They think that it was a loss. They think that it was broken. They think there's not a funnel for their business. What to you is a minimally viable result where you say, I have something, is it break even? Is it almost paying for itself? What do you look for? To either scrap it and start over or to scale something.

Breakeven's like, that's the win for us. And if you like, if you make more, if you double over triple s. And it's just like it took us six funnels. The six funnels. When the ClickFunnels funnel took off first, five failed. Six, one. I knew it took off. Cause we doubled over on our ad spend. And I was like, we had a meeting afterwards with Todd. I said, hey guys, just, you know, like, we're rich. Like, it doubled over now. And they're like, it didn't make that much. Only made like 1500 bucks. I'm like, yeah, but it doubled over on our ad spend. Now we can scale this thing. So for me, breakeven, I gotta say, if we have a break even funnel, that's a million dollar, your business. So that's what we're trying to get to initially on the front end. And we're acquiring customers. And then you nurture the customers do stuff and the million bucks comes on the backside of it. If it's not working. It's funny too. Cause if it's not working, people always tell me, ed, funnel didn't work. I'm like, what does that mean? And they're like, it didn't work. The nice thing about my funnels are really simple. I know a lot of people make these super complex funnels, like 8,000 different ways. All my funnels, like three to four pages, they're simple. And I was like, I tried to teach people make them simple because I want to be able to say, why didn't it work? It's like, okay, well, I spent this much on Facebook at this much per click. And you either know if that's good or if it's bad, right? And it's like my landing page, we had this percent option rate. It's either good or it's bad. My first sale page was this conversion. And so there's like four or five conversion points and that's it. And so I'm saying, well, tell me all the numbers. Like, wait, I was on Facebook and it cost me $3 to acquire, you know, get someone to register for my webinar. And I'm like, sweet, that's actually a really good number. Like, don't touch that. Like, it's perfect. And they're like, and then here, I only had like 8% showed up in my webinar. I'm like, that's broken. You suck at getting people on the webinar. How can we get them on the webinar? And we start thinking through that, right? Or I did the webinar. I had all these people on there. I only sold. I sold 6%. I'm like, that's about half where you should be at. So we got to figure out the pitch. Like, there's only like four or five little conversion points that matter. And as soon as you figure out, oh, that's the only thing that was broken, then we just laser on that, try a couple of tweaks and play with it. And usually all these, I'll spend usually three or four iterations on funnel. And then usually within three or four iterations, you're there or it's not going to work. And people always ask me, how much money should you spend on the test? I look like, what is it? I'm selling on the back end? Like, if I'm selling $1,000 thing on the webinar, I'll spend $1,000 to test it and see if I make at least one sell. If I'm selling Dollar Beard Club and I know my average cart value is 180 bucks, I'm gonna spend 180 bucks to see if I can get one person through it. So that's how I do my test. I spend as much as one customer going through would make me. And then look at the numbers, make some tweaks, do it again, make some tweaks and do two or three times. It's either get hit or it's not. And then that's when we.

How has your life changed and has it changed since you did the viral video a couple months ago?

It was fun. It was a lot of stress getting that thing done. I think the weirdest thing is like, people that I know go to church with me and stuff, they're like, hey, I saw that nude squirrel thing. And I'm like, that's weird to talk about in church. But, you know, other than that, it's just, it's been really good for front end acquisition for us and bringing new people, new blood in, but hasn't. You know, we're lucky we launched it after a lot of the foundation to Build the company. So it wasn't like, you know, I know a lot of companies like Squatty Potty, some of them, they blow up. It's just like everything like is falling apart. We luckily had a good foundation of stuff, so just kind of elevated everything but good foundation in place.

You made mention earlier that you've had a hard time selling yourself or a hard time when the business was around you. I forget how you phrased it, but you mentioned that. And then clickfunnels came and it was, have you grown so much in that time? Because now the personal brand has something that it can scale. You can be the lead source for everything else. Or is it something else?

It's interesting because like, and I came from the infoworld, a lot of you guys haven't been that or you spend time in the info world as well. Like the info product business is always like feast or famine, right? Like someone will create a thing, a bunch of sales and they would drop and then next launch would happen, bunch of sales and it would drop. And what's cool about our model now is like the info is just fuel for like our real business, right? You look at Tony Robbins is a really good example, right? He started this broker, I don't know if he started, became partnered in this brokerage firm, right? And then he wrote a book about money and launches this book. And in the first, like, I probably get in trouble for you, quote, I don't even know the number. But the first, like three or four months after the book launch, they had like six or seven billion dollars in assets that came out, came on the back of that thing, right? Like that was the business. The book wasn't the business. His events are the business. The book is just the fuel that he can profitably acquire customers and then introduce them to the other things that they have. And so for me, it was like we had clickfunnels as the back and the personal brand I was able to do. But now it's like that wasn't the whole business. Like we could spend way more if we break even on all that stuff. Like that's a huge win for us. Where in the past that was how we had to make money. So it was harder to grow things. You know what I mean? That was the business.

I totally understand because I have, I've lived that TV show. I just want to reward this gentleman right here for standing at the mic for all this time. Go ahead.

Thank you. So, Russell, I want to just change gears a little bit. I know that you have been very public in growing your family and with infertility. I just wanted to share that. I definitely appreciate that. And I just want to share that. My wife and I have struggled with infertility for a long time.

I am very nervous. We're.

This is going.

I bought your book, Russell, and I bought the upsell. What was the upsell? Getting pregnant was the upsell. I see the end of this.

That's upsell number four.

We had struggled for about five years and went through fertility treatment as well. And at the end of that, the doctor has said we can either go through adoption or have a gestational carrier, somebody who can carry our baby for us. So we decided to, well, my wife's mother decided to, long story short, be our gestational carrier. We had said it, we said no at first, but she decided to be our gestational carrier. She was 54 at the time. And to make this short, a little less than a year later, she carried our triplets at 55 years old. And that was a. We had a lot of publicity from that. And just being able to talk about infertility, no one did that at this time. Being able to talk in front of a group like this, 600 of my closest friends about infertility is a huge thing. We just want to thank you for being able to just open up about that. We started a foundation to help people and we give grants up to $10,000 each. And we have helped about 70 families and 59 of them have been able to have babies. 59 babies are in this world because of our foundation. And I just wanted to offer you. We have our capstone gala at the French embassy in D.C. and I just want to award you just our top award for overcoming and just giving information. I'd be more than happy to fly you out there. I don't have private jet money.

We got to work on your front end offer here before we go go to the gala. So, Russell, let's break down the funnel for carrying triplets.

That's how it works.

For the average 55 year old in the room, that would be about a $50,000 high end offer. What would be the tripwire on that?

I don't even know. I'm sure we could figure it out, though. That's amazing. I love that. If I could add anything to that. It's just so many of us have these amazing stories, but for some reason we think that to get people or our customers to like us, we need to be postured in a certain way, right? So we come out and we're posturing, we're trying to like, be cool and like. And what's interesting is like, that posturing is what actually drives people away from you and drives connection away from you. When I started opening about that or other things in my life, like, and become vulnerable and be willing to share things with people, that's when people will actually come to you. That's when customers and people and like, you could actually have the impact. It's like the opposite. We think that posturing ourselves is going to give us connection. And it's the opposite. The vulnerability is what gives the connection that you're actually seeking and opens up all the doors.

So.

Hey guys, this is Ryan. We're going to take a quick break and we'll return to the show in a second.

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I think most Internet marketers who have personalities are really unhappy with their lives behind the curtain. I don't think it's an act. I think you are genuinely a happy person and you don't even drink coffee. So.

I want to ask you about work life, balance. Is it a thing? And how are you so happy all the freaking time?

It's that whole Mormon thing we're gonna do at the pool.

Yeah. I gotta ask you how I get.

My underwear and all that. It's interesting because people ask me like, how do you balance everything? And it's. I don't know if I believe in like balance Because I. Everything great that's ever happened in my life came during times of like severe unbalance, right? Like I was a wrestler growing up and like when I was wrestling, I became a great wrestler. Not because I was balanced, because I was severely unbalanced. Like, I didn't do homework, I didn't go. Like, all I did was wrestle, right? That was my everything and greatness came from that. My beautiful wife over here. Like, I wasn't balanced. Like, I'm gonna spend time with her and go to school. Like, I stopped like all severe unbalance to her. Same in the business started. Like I had to severely unbalance, but I unbalanced for a period of time and I tried to come back because too much unbalance, like, will mess you up. Cause then for me, like when we're launching clickfunnels, like there was a time Todd and I, when we were building, like there was some, some severe unbalance where I was like killing myself. He was in his house coding this thing and we're trying to get this thing out to market and there's a lot of unbalance. But because of that, like, when I come back whenever, it's like, I gotta be super present in those times. For example, like, I can work late, I can pull all nighters, but I know that I gotta be home by 6 and my kids go to bed at night. So 6 o' clock tonight, I'm gonna be home and we're gonna play hard, we're gonna have a good time with the kids. And then if I need to do more, like, okay, now I'm gonna go unbalanced. But I'm not giving up the time with my kids or my wife to do that. That time's like sacred time. And so I'm gonna be focused and be there. And then after I fall asleep, I'm like, okay, now I gotta get back to this unbalanced thing and go deeper and spend a lot of time at night. But I don't think anything great comes from being balanced. But it's understand how to juggle that imbalance and spending the time you need to do something great, but then coming back and carving out the time for what's really actually important.

So let me ask you a little bit differently because I've never heard you do a podcast or video where like, I'm really bored today, guys, and I got nothing to do. Usually it's like, hey, what's up everybody? Welcome to Marketing Secrets, man. I just pulled an all nighter for the fourth night in a row and I'M going to this thing called the Capitalism conference. Yeah. Flying this private jet. Slept for, like, 30 minutes. It was awesome. How do you manage it all? And do you ever burn out? And how do you get through those times?

There's some days when I wake up against my wife, I'll wake up and I'll just be like, I don't want to go in today. But then it's like, I don't know. It doesn't last long. It lasts for like an hour or two in the morning. And then I go. And I'm such a big believer, especially, like, the leader of a company, right? Like, energy. People match energy, right? Like, I've spoken at events before where I walk in and the person around you is like, hey, up next is Russell. And I walk in, and it's just like, everyone's, like, half asleep. I'm like, oh. And I got to spend, like, 20 minutes just to get people, like, energy right? Or, like, you're just really good. And it's exciting to come in, and it's, like, really easy to ride that. And so I'm like. When I walk into the office, like, and see my team, if I come in, I'm like, hey, guys, I'm stressed. Like, the entire group, everyone drops to that level, or I come in, I gotta be like this. And then everyone's gonna come up to my level. So I consciously, like, when I get. And I'm tired, I get to the office, I'm like, okay, I'm coming in. I gotta be at a level like 20 if I walk in here. Otherwise, if I'm not careful, everyone will suck me down to whatever. Most people don't operate at that level. So you come in. And so I come in. Like, I gotta be at this level. So I come in this level, and, like, everyone sees that and they're like, what in the world? What is this dude doing? Like, he's so excited. And then they all come up. The entire office, the entire team lifts to that. And then I can ride on that. And it's like, oh, this is really cool. And I got guys like Dave in my office. Dave will come in. He comes in at a higher level than I do. He's coming in like that. And I come in. Like, three of us come in that way, and all of a sudden, everyone comes in. And soon everyone starts doing that. And now it's like, when you walk in our office, you can feel like there's a tangible energy when you come in. We have people, one of our guys, doing customer support. Forever. And he's like, I feel like I work at Disneyland. I come in every day and everyone's so excited. But it didn't happen that way. It was like, me consciously for months and then years of just like, hey, if I'm coming in here, if I come in like this, I'm gonna suck everyone down to my level. Or if I'm not consistently here, I'm not gonna be able to rise them up to my level. Cause energy will match whatever the room that you're in.

And so when was the last time that you hit a period for more than 24 hours in your business where you're like, this sucks. I want out of this, and I need to make a change in my life or career or this thing isn't working? When was the last time you hit a rough plan patch in your career that wasn't just an hour?

Twice. ClickFunnels went down for extended period of time. That was really bad. And I wanted to die and hide. But as far as, like, career, like, shifting, we had built a company up, had about 100 employees, and it collapsed overnight. Like, I had to fire 80 plus people at one time.

This was before clickfunnels, correct? Yeah.

And found out that my bookkeeper had paid payroll taxes in over a year. It was all these things I remember. That's my waking up, waking up in the morning. And I was like, I wish I had a boss so he could fire me, but I don't. And if I don't go in today and figure this out, I didn't know this because I'm like, the entrepreneur. If you don't pay payroll tax, they don't, like, slap you with a fine. They lock you up. I was like, I had to figure out a way to make an extra $150,000 on top of, like, keeping the doors open or I'm going to go to jail. That gets you up. And it was horrible.

I'm going to guess you did not want to go to jail.

Not necessarily.

All right.

Yeah.

And it was probably a year and a half, two years of just, like, that grind of, like, we had to dig out of this hole. And it was tough again. I wanted to quit, but I couldn't because of those reasons. And also, we'd sold a bunch of stuff and we had to fulfill it. So, like, I can't shut everything down. Cause, like, I would be doing a disservice to the people, like, customers, and, like, I have an obligation to them. And it was just. It was a really, really hard time and what's interesting though is like that pain and that darkness that we were going through that time is like what opened up the gate for what became clickfunnels. It's so crazy how, like I heard Tony Robbins say this one time and I thought it was like one of those cheesy things people say, but he was like on people's deathbed. When you look back to like the darkest points in your life, that was actually like the pivot that caused like all the greatest things in your life.

That's been 100% true in me every single time.

It's crazy. Look back now, it's like, man, if that didn't happen, like, the trajectory we were on was not good. It made me humble myself because I was like. Thought I was so cool. And like, when you lose everything, you're so humble. And that's when we were trying things where we're building our supplement companies, other different companies. That's when Todd and I had the idea for Click Funnels. He built it out. And because I had been sufficiently humbled for two years of like this horrible thing when he's like, hey man, I want to do clickfunnels, but I wanna be your partner. Like Russell, two years prior to that would've been like, no, dude, I would've been way too prideful, whatever. Because I'd been sufficiently humble, I was like, yes, I need you, let's do this. And because all this greatness came from that and there was a lot, there were a lot of bumps getting clickfunnels out the door and getting adoption and getting stuff. But after it's taken off, it has been the ride of a life. Like it's. We've done and seen experience more last three years, I think most people see in a lifetime. And it's just been a blast. And I feel like we're just getting started. So.

So last question. Looking ahead into the next year to two years, what trends do you see emerging that you think are going to continue that are not called Bitcoin.

Called Litecoin.

So it's interesting looking at just the traffic across the Entire platform, right? 55,000 customers, tens of millions of funnels, hundreds of millions of visitors. Like, it's interesting looking just at a whole. It used to always be desktop was the majority of traffic, right? This year it shifted. Right now in our entire platform, it's like 60 something percent comes from mobile. Now it's like 2%'s iPads. No one uses iPads. And then desktop. And so for me, it's like we always used to design sites for desktop. Like all our sites, two column, that's everything, right? But you look at now two column site is like you're dropping conversion on more than half. So now what we're doing internally is we're designing in mobile mode and click funnels where it pops in mobile and we design based on that. And you'll see moving forward, all of our sites are now like one singular column. It looks kind of weird, but it's like the majority of traffic, that's what they're seeing. So we're designing based on that. And then Todd started coding in clickfunnels. Like I didn't know this is possible. But if someone's got Apple Pay on their phone or Android Pay or whatever, you can go to a page now and like the order form will disappear and there's an Android pay button will pop instead. We're seeing like a 30 to 40% lift on everything across the the board by doing that. And so it's like understanding like people buy more on desktop in the past because they'd get their credit card and they'd buy it on the phone. Like I think about things twice on credit card on my phone because it's so hard and you're trying to like your fat thumbs are clicking the button. It's a nightmare, right? But now it's like getting so simple you just like pop your thumb and it builds your card one click upsells and down sells and all that kind of stuff. So I think mobile is like designing towards mobile, making your order, sign up, process your sales. Like looking at that as the lens of like where the majority of people are coming through is really kind of the biggest trend. And then the second half of it is if you look at there's two worlds in this business, there's like the direct response guys and there's the branding guys, right. And the branding guys obviously the direct response and vice versa. And it's funny, Gary Vaynerchuk spoke at my last event and we had kind of, it's kind of like he's branding, I'm direct response. But I think that like the future, what we're seeing like people are having the most success is they understand both worlds. It's direct response to bring somebody in at a break even and as soon as you acquire that customer it's going like tripling down on brand. It's understanding this, it's a two fold thing that direct response is what gets you the customers for free and then the brand is what makes those customers worth insane amounts of money to you. And so I think that that's the future. Like, people are sitting there killing it. They understand super good direct response on the front end, super good brand on the back on a typical landing page. If you have your branding on your landing page, it will destroy your conversion. Like a logo on a landing page is not good for direct response conversion. But someone sees that logo, they'll buy for me in the futures. Way better for long term. So it's that blend of those two worlds, people that master, that are the ones that are going to win.

Beautiful. Well, Russell, you know, I think that entrepreneurs are the secret to changing the world and solving all the world's problems. And you've created as many of them as anybody I know. So keep on changing the world, buddy. Give it up for Russell Brunson.

Thank you, sir.

Hope you enjoyed this talk from the Capitalism Conference. Hey, head on over to the Freedom Fastlane YouTube channel to see videos from the conference and all the latest videos from Ryan so you can learn more about how to build a business and invest the profits.