Thomas Kineshanko

Foreign.

Oh, hey, everybody. Ryan Daniel Moran here with Freedom Fastlane. Hey, do you know anything about this bitcoin stuff?

Yeah, me neither.

All I know is that it scares the crap out of me. But I have been hearing some of my investor friends and entrepreneur friends talk about how excited they are about this new technology in binary currency and Bitcoin. And I'm like, I don't know what the heck you're talking about. And this really gives me the willies. And I was having a really interesting conversation with my buddy Tom Kinchenko where he said that he really believes that it's viable technology and that it's going to be appreciating greatly in the next few years. And I disagreed with him just based on the fundamentals of investing. So we disagree in a way on if we think it's a viable investment. But I did think it was interesting in his viewpoint of where the technology is going, how it will affect all of our lives, and how it might affect business, especially us entrepreneurs living with freedom businesses and following a freedom lifestyle. So I wanted to have Tom on to talk about where he sees this technology going. And this will be really enlightening. So sit tight for this interview with Tom Kinischenko.

Hey, everybody, this is Ryan Daniel Moran with Freedom Fastlane. Today I'm joined by my buddy Tom Konashenko, and today we're going to be talking and debating a little bit about bitcoin and binary currencies. Tom, thanks so much for hanging out with us at Freedom Fast Lane.

Yeah, Ryan, my pleasure.

Tom, would you give us like a.

30 to 60 second overview on your investment company? And I mean, when you told me that you run a investment company that specifically invests in binary currencies, I was like, first of all, that sounds really important. And second of all, I have no idea what that means. So dumb it down for us.

Yeah, so.

There, there's a new type of digital currency, a whole bunch of different names. You can call it cryptocurrencies, binary currencies, digital currencies, but they're growing really fast. They've gone from zero to about $7 billion in the last four and a bit years. And we like the fact that it's going up in value. We saw that as just a good business opportunity, but we also think it's a really important technology for the world to have. So we created an investment company in Canada where investors put money into the company, we actually give them a tax credit back, and then we take the money and put it into cryptocurrencies. Which we hold on behalf of the investors. So if they go up in value, we pay them out, they go down in value, we obviously don't. And we get to use a little bit of the money invested to actually build some technologies related to digital currencies.

Okay, so we've heard a lot about bitcoin. For the more savvy people than myself, they've heard about other currencies as well. But there's a lot of confusion about what the heck bitcoin and these other new digital currencies are. To be honest with you, they scare the hell out of me. So would you explain a little bit about what they are and dispel some myths that people have about these types of currencies?

For sure. So it's, I mean, the news coming out about bitcoin, about digital currencies is really polarized. Basically, either people love it or they totally hate it. So.

The key thing to know I think is that.

So all it is, simplest form, is just a digital way to transfer the ownership of anything.

So to break that down a little bit, at the moment you can imagine something like.

Transferring a dollar to Africa. With the old system, you would give money to companies, say Western Union, they would have an office in Africa, or say Nigeria specifically, you'd give them a dollar. Western Union would ship that dollar physically or digitally in the last maybe decade or so over to Nigeria. And then somebody in Nigeria could show up at one of their offices and take that dollar out and go spend it. And for that service they would charge you maybe 20 cents on the dollar. And so what cryptocurrencies do is just provide a digital way, a digital piece of infrastructure on the Internet where you can transfer that dollar to somebody via the Internet at no cost or at a very, very, very low cost, like a fraction of a percentage point. And the way that that works is that you don't need that central third party to do.

To provide the infrastructure, because the infrastructure comes in the form of this open source piece of software known as the blockchain. So the blockchain is just this pretty beefy online open source software that allows people to transfer something to somebody else. And.

The common criticism is, okay, well what if you know who's controlling the system, who's keeping tabs on what dollar's going where and people to make sure that people aren't double spending and things like that. So there's an interesting feature of bitcoin is that there's about the equivalent of about 300 million laptops spread out all over the world that are plugged into the software, and they actually run a computer program on their computer which looks at the network, finds related transactions, and keeps track of everything. So it's called a distributed verification system.

So that's kind of. It's a bit of a complicated animal, but that's about as simple as, like.

My head hurts already. I'm already confused.

But as you were talking, the first.

Thing that came to mind was, well, how the heck is this any different than PayPal? And then I, then I started to think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but in PayPal, first of all, you have the fees that you pay PayPal, but you also have to. If I'm paying that to China, that needs to be transferred from the US dollar into the Chinese yuan, and then there's a fee for both of us and somebody could get in and hack PayPal or whatever. I think what you're saying is that the benefit of Bitcoin, and again, forgive my ignorance, but what I think I'm hearing you say is that Bitcoin, since it's the infrastructure, is the fact that it's a currency, it's a universal currency, so you can exchange it pretty easily.

Yeah, I mean, you asked a good question in there. So I wouldn't describe Bitcoin as a currency. I would just describe it. I think it's best understood just as an online piece of software that allows anybody to transfer anything, the ownership of anything. It could be a unit of value, like a dollar, it could be a house, it could be a domain name, could be anything. It just allows you to transfer the ownership of that thing over this software. So you ask, how is it different than Bitcoin or, sorry, than PayPal? And that raises a really key point. So Bitcoin is a private company that sits in the middle of a bunch of people's transactions, and PayPal sets the rules of how you can transact with each other. They set the price of how much you're going to pay them to do that. They define the rules of that system. Whereas Bitcoin is the first really robust example of the opposite type of structure, where instead of having a central party sitting in the middle that allows the transactions to happen, it's a completely distributed system with no central third party. So it's basically a set of rules that was given to the world, plus this verification system, which is all these laptops that run this code to make sure the system's working properly.

And that's why everyone's excited.

Because they think that A distributed piece, a tool that can allow distributed transactions.

Is game changing. So a lot of people are saying it's as significant as the introduction of the PC, as significant as the Internet. And the Internet's a great example. So the Internet just allowed communications to be distributed. So instead of sending, you know, simple example, we used to have to send letters through a post office. And then the Internet came along and we can send each other emails from our phones anywhere in the world. So communications, we were given this platform, this piece of software and some other stuff behind there, and now we can suddenly send messages for free to anyone at any time.

And how. And you're saying, so bitcoin is kind of like that. It just allows for exchange to be more seamless. And because it's distributed, the scope of those exchanges has an unlimited potential and unlimited reach.

Yeah. So nobody, just like in communications where, say with before the Internet you might have had a newspaper is the primary means of people receiving information about what was going on. You know, somebody owns that newspaper, they can define what goes in the newspaper. So they might, they might have a, you know, they might be an extremely liberal leaning news organization and they might put a bunch of stuff in there that kind of influences the conversation. The Internet came along and suddenly everybody could just communicate with each other for free. So you had like, you know, crowdsourced news sites, and then obviously things like Twitter pop up and communication just got a whole lot more distributed, but it also got a whole lot more transparent. And a whole bunch of interesting new ways of communicating grew out of that. Just because people had the power to communicate for free on their own terms without a third party controlling the communication. So exactly the same thing is happening with bitcoin, except the thing that's being distributed is the transfer of ownership of anything. So transfer of ownership of a dollar is a great example.

Now we can do that on our phone anywhere in the world for free. So you can imagine a whole bunch of different things coming out of that.

The thing that comes to mind immediately is if there's no third party tracking that, then it would be hard to monitor exchanges by a third party, by a government, and it would be difficult to tax exchanges if it was done through this means of exchange. Am I right in that assumption?

Potentially it could be. So on one hand, you can definitely use cryptocurrencies in an anonymous way. There's actually a. So there's bitcoin and there's about 200 other cryptocurrencies which are. Have cropped up. They basically look a Lot like bitcoin, but they might have a few different features.

One of those is called Dark Coin, which is a completely anonymous cryptocurrency, so that, you know, there might be some anonymity issues. You might not be able to track down who's sending what where. On the other hand, all of the transactions are digital and they're all stored in a public ledger. That blockchain I was talking about is a permanent online record of all transactions that have ever happened. And anybody can go and look at that at any time. So, you know, I think it's going to go both ways. I think there's going to be certain transactions that go underground and there's going to be others that actually get a whole lot more easy to track, a whole lot more transparent.

So this whole thing sounds very futuristic and scary and like a year ago I really discarded this conversation. I really thought this was a whole bunch of hokey. And here we are a year ago and bitcoins over $600 a coin and everybody's still talking about it as the future. So would you dispel some of our fears for those of us who are a little bit concerned? Because this sounds very futuristic, even end of the world. Ish. Would you, would you explain a little bit about, Would you just dispel our fears for us if you can do that? Or maybe it is the end of the world and Tom Kineshenko thinks that Armageddon is coming in 12 months. Whatever your opinion is. What is that?

Yeah, no, I hate to hate to break it to you, but I think it is the end of the world.

Dang it.

We're just trying to make up. Well, yeah, we're just trying to make a bunch of money on the way down.

Yeah, so I was the same.

I mean, I.

Despite having a background that kind of blends finance and software for the last decade, when I first heard about bitcoin, I was like, you know, this is a bunch of kind of sci fi crap. It's not going to work. The government's just going to squash it and that's that. And in thinking that I actually missed out on getting into it when it was pretty cheap, like 20 bucks a coin.

So got into it a little bit later, which, you know, still have, have had about eight times appreciation, which has been good. And I still.

Eight times like 800%.

Yeah, yeah, 8X.

That's okay.

Yeah, yeah. And that's just, that's just the last 12 months. That's, that's basically June to June.

We'll see you know, we. It's really hard to predict price in the future, but so I think.

A lot of the biggest fears that I had and that other people have expressed to me tend to come from the news headlines. There's been a ton of negative press about bitcoin. And after being in this market for a year, I read a lot of the news that's coming out even today, and I'm like, man, that's pretty misguided, or it often tells kind of a half story. But.

There'S two ways to speak to the risks. I think, you know, I can describe, like, some of the stuff that's going on. But even before I get into that, I would say the biggest thing for me that has communicated to me that this thing's here to stay is just the amount of really smart investment money that's pooling into it. You know, that the type of venture capital that's moving into it is on par with the Internet, sort of in 97, 98, and it's growing at a like a 20x rate every quarter. Basically, a ton of six new hedge funds popped up in the last four months. Pretty big names, BlackRock and others in there. So, you know, a lot of really smart people who are deep in tech, a lot of the founders of Facebook, are pretty heavily into this. Signals to me that there's something really real here when it comes to not just the potential of this thing to appreciate as a unit of speculation, but also there's some very real technology involved.

That brings up an interesting point because you said you're up 800% from when you started investing in bitcoin. And you and I had the private conversation two weeks ago in person when I said I'm afraid of bitcoin because it's not backed in anything. And you said, well, give me an example of something that's backed in something. And I said, companies and real estate as a means of exchange. I'd agree with you, of course, that currencies aren't backed in anything. So as a means of exchange, bitcoin is no different. But would you classify bitcoin as an investment? There's all these hedge funds coming in and all these people speculating on it, but would you consider it an investment? Do you consider it an asset?

Yeah, that's a good question.

So it's pretty cool in that. So there are.

That's the answer. It's just pretty cool. It's not an asset. It's just cool.

I just find it cool. I just try to do stuff that's cool. So there's. The cool things about it are that there is a limit on how many there ever will be. So 21 million ever. So finite resource, kind of like say real estate.

And the more people use Bitcoin and the more applications that are built to allow people to use Bitcoin the, you know, the more demand there is on the system. So just like real estate price should rise. And so a lot of people I think see it as kind of like Real Estate 2.0 or Gold 2.0 where it's this thing that's going to be really useful. So if you buy it now, more demand on the system and it goes up in value. So from that perspective it's more like it's kind of like a digital asset.

That's one way to look at it. The.

I guess.

So, you know, I wouldn't see it so much like investing in a currency. I would see it more like investing in an asset. But the other thing about.

So you compare it more to gold than buying euros.

I would compare it much more to gold, yeah.

The other piece of it is though that something that gold doesn't really have is that bitcoin has network effects. So it's an information technology and information technologies display really powerful network effects. So.

You know there's a finite supply, you buy some more, demand price goes up. But Bitcoin itself is starting to pull away. It's actually increasing as a percentage of all digital currencies. So it's at about 93% market cap of all digital currencies. So I think bitcoin specifically is an interesting investment because.

Yeah, it just the more different applications use it, the more of network effect it has which really just strengthens its, its leadership position.

There's also these other smaller currencies that from what I hear are just incredibly volatile and as a result people are gaining and losing their shirts. Would you comment on these other currencies if they're relevant? I keep using the word currency. I don't know what else to call them to be honest with you. But would you comment on these other forms of exchange if they're relevant, if they'll be around if there's any that we should pay attention to.

Yeah.

So so called altcoins are either currencies that are just basically a rip off of the bitcoin open source code where people just copy and paste and then maybe change a couple things or they're their entirely own system of digital currency.

There's a bunch of them, some of them are total just Pump and dump schemes, there's been a few of those already and there's a few that are definitely really interesting. So I think there will be Bitcoin because it's good at certain things. It's a really secure way to basically lock down who owns what. But it's slow. There's about a 10 minute verification process where once you do a transaction, you wait for all those computers around the world to verify the transactions.

So that's going to be a problem if you need to do like a really fast transaction or trade. So there's other currencies which can be built that might use Bitcoin, they might actually plug into Bitcoin, but they might just offer really fast verification, for example.

And.

Yeah, so we're investing in altcoins a little bit. I'm personally doing more of that. I think that there's some that are just worth kind of taking a flyer on. Obviously they could have appreciation that would be much greater, I think than bitcoin. But they're definitely, I would consider them like, you know, a very small amount of my investment portfolio, very high risk, much like an angel investment.

Okay, now just this is an aside here, but for those who listen to Freedom fast lane and those who are interested in the investment strategy that I follow, I recommend, I'm going to highlight what Tom just said here is a very small allocation of his portfolio is put into these high risk investments. I personally would consider Bitcoin a high risk investment because it's not backed in anything and because as far as I know, you can correct me if I'm wrong, it doesn't spit out any cash flow. It's a pure speculation play. And any pure speculation play in my mind is a high risk endeavor. And it's fine if you want to allocate 5 or 10% of your portfolio to a high risk endeavor. But I still, regardless of, I don't care how convincing Tom is to me because we've had private conversations, maybe I should buy some bitcoin.

I still advocate that my investments go into anything that's going to pay me cash. So dividend paying, stock, rental, real estate, because that is going to be around forever while the asset underlying it appreciates. Anything you want to clarify there as far as bitcoin having dividends or.

Allocation of portfolio?

Yeah, a couple things. So.

What you described as sort of your core investment strategy I think is smart. I think cash flow investments are great and if you can get them.

Bitcoin for me in my own personal portfolio is in the same category. As an angel investment, it's something that I think could go up about, you know, 10 to 30 times over the next, say, five years. Same with the altcoins. The high volatility. There is no. There's no real interest that you can get from, say, lending bitcoin to something, although that's going to change. We're actually working on a product in that area. But, you know, even for our own product, one of the criticisms is, for myself, is that I don't know how much of my bitcoin I would actually lend to something that paid me, say, 20% interest. Because if I believe that Bitcoin's going up 10 times, then, or it's going to zero, and it's in that category of my portfolio, you know, stuff I expect to go to zero, but one or two of them will do well, then all I need to do is just not lose my bitcoin. So by giving it to somebody who might lose it, they pay me some interest. You know, I. I largely would just prefer to hold on to it.

I understand.

My. I would say that my perspective is shifting. Like, when I first got into it, I viewed it as much more highly speculative than I do today. So even when I said that, like, you know, it still sits in that angel investment percentage of my portfolio. It's, you know, I could see that moving out of there in the very near future. It feels like it's time to kind of shift it to the lower risk end of the spectrum.

Because, you see, it has staying power and because it's basically the anchor for all these other currencies.

Yeah, because. And this is a bit of a strange way to look at it, maybe, but this is how I've come to look at it. So if there's 21 million bitcoins and bitcoin is as significant of a technology innovation as the Internet than owning one bitcoin, like owning a piece of the wiring that the Internet ran on in 1995, if that wiring was forever finite. So more demand on bitcoin means that there should be a potentially very large increase in the value of bitcoin. So the only thing I have to really worry about is will bitcoin be around? And the more time I spend in the space and the more really solid infrastructure gets built in the market.

You know, I'm just. I just have a very strong feeling that.

We'Re pretty the cat's way out of the bag. Like, you know, I just. I don't see the death of death of bitcoin being a Very probable event.

Interesting. So I don't even know how you go about acquiring Bitcoins or any of these altcoins or digital currencies. I don't even know what the correct term is. Forgive my ignorance, but enlighten this on us.

I easily log into E Trade and pick up my real estate investment trusts. My favorite being agnc and the other things that I talk about in my income reports. I reveal everything I'm invested in, but I have no idea how I would go about acquiring a Bitcoin.

That's cool. It's cool that you report on your returns.

So if you're in the us, the easiest way to do it is through Coinbase, which is kind of the one of the longest standing Bitcoin exchanges. And there's another option that just popped up called Circle out of New York. Circle, I think, is still limiting the number of people that can use it. You know, if I was just getting into cryptocurrencies right today, I would probably try Circle first. If I can get in there, I'd use that. If I can't get in there, I'd use Coinbase. Either one have a pretty good user experience.

One key thing to note is that.

So if your currencies are online, they like, theoretically can be hacked and stolen, right? Just, I mean, I suppose dollars in your bank account could be hacked and stolen as well. There's just been more time for the banks to build up their security.

So if you're going to buy a fairly large amount of Bitcoin, I would take it offline into what's called cold storage. But, you know, that's a lot to get into. It's all available on the Internet. I'm sure Coinbase could help you figure it out if you called them. But effectively it means you take the serial numbers that are associated to your Bitcoins off the Internet, store them on a piece of paper in a lockbox or whatever you want to do.

That sounds now I'm convinced that it is the end of the world, Tom.

So you see this going up 10 to 30 times in the next one to five years.

And that is Bitcoin specifically correct. Do you see these other currencies being relevant? I know that you mentioned that a couple are interesting. Do you see them having the same type of increase, do you see them having the same spike that Bitcoin have of going from $10 to $1,000 in a period of three months? I just want to hear. You are the number one expert in my world on this topic. So what are your predictions with these other forms of exchange?

So bitcoin is definitely.

Way more interesting to me than the altcoins in terms of an investment. And I think everybody, everybody in the world should have 1% of their wealth in bitcoin because I do really think it has the potential to go up as much. As I mentioned.

I think it's a, it's a radically interesting technology innovation. You know, some of the world's best tech investors obviously are in agreement, putting a ton of money behind it. Bitcoin is displaying really strong network effects because it's both a currency or it displays characteristics of a currency and of an information technology. And those two things, currency and information technology, display the world's strongest network effects. Network effects tend to lead to a ton of value creation. So.

I think bitcoin is going to keep increasing as a percentage of the overall cryptocurrency market cap because of those network effects. So I would say, like, for myself, I've got, say I have 20 units to invest across cryptocurrency. I would have like 19.5 in Bitcoin and then 0.5 in altcoins. Altcoins gonna be a lot more volatile. The ones I think are interesting are Litecoin, Dark Coin.

And a new one called Ethereum. And there's a, you know, there's several others. Those are the ones that I think probably have the best appreciation potential in the next quarter.

And you can exchange all of these in Coinbase or Circle.

Yeah, I've never used Circle, so I can't speak to that.

I've got two more questions for you, Tom, and one is on this idea of mining, I keep hearing there's a limited number. There only ever be 21 million bitcoins. I don't know how that is enforced. I'd like for you to talk about the origin or the source of bitcoin. And what is this idea of mining bitcoins? I have no concept of how this works.

Yeah. So it's.

All right, here we go.

You're about to blow my mind, aren't you?

Yeah, this stuff is.

Once you get pretty far, once you get too far down the rabbit hole, it's hard to take your head out of the jargon.

I guess I feel like I'm part of a lost episode right now because I am indeed lost.

All right, so my job is to try to explain the mining.

So.

Two parts to bitcoin. One is the distributed. One is just an open source piece of software that lives on the Internet that allows you to transfer a bitcoin to somebody else. There's no central party. There's no like company, corporation, government, anybody that's looking at what you're doing on that piece of software on that network.

And saying, okay, I see that Ryan transferred Tom a bitcoin. Cool, we're gonna put that in our files and you know, we know what happened. So what was released alongside of bitcoin was a framework that allows anybody in the world to contribute computing power, to scan the bitcoin network, the bitcoin software and say. So the way they scan it is they just run a computer program. They run an algorithm on their computer that kind of combs through the bitcoin code and says, ah, I see that Ryan transferred Tom a unit of bitcoin. I'm gonna take that transaction and stick it in the blockchain so it's a permanent, permanently, it's recorded there for everybody to see. So the way mining works is. So mining is the act of just running that algorithm on your computer.

And if so, every basically 10 minutes there's a new competition. People race to find blocks of related transactions. The first person or group of people to find that block.

Receive a reward in bitcoin. So new bitcoins are produced as rewards for people mining.

And they're getting the reward for what exactly? They're finding what this group of people is, they're mining what.

So they are, they're running that algorithm which searches the code of bitcoin and finds transactions that are related to each other and then puts them down, writes them down in the blockchain in the public ledger, public record of what's happened in the market. So they're getting rewarded for providing the verification system, the record keeping system of bitcoin.

Okay. And I'm guessing as more and more of these are mined, then the reward either goes down or if bitcoin.

Value goes up, then the reward is much, much smaller in terms of actual number of bitcoins exchanged as a reward.

Yeah.

So it just like real gold, it gets harder and harder and harder to mine it over time. So gone are the days when you could just sort of walk up to the Yukon and pick up nuggets off the ground, which was really like the early days of bitcoin. You know, one of our investors just with a few small computers mined a tremendous amount of Bitcoin 3, 4 years ago. Today you have to put in a lot of computing power to get much reward. And it's, it's so tough that actually the last bitcoin isn't predicted to be mined until about 2140.

So, yeah, it's become a, it's become a total arms race. There's, you know, massive 15, $20 million warehouses full of these specialized computers which just run. They're actually built just to run the bitcoin mining algorithm.

Yeah, this seems so odd to me, but I'm trying very hard to understand.

When someone. Again, I'm a traditional investor. So I have my E Trade account open right now. I can go in and check out the charts of the stocks I'm invested in. Amazon, JetBlue, Target. How does one even find out about these currencies? Track them, Decide if they're decent investments or speculations or, you know, track the. I know I did a Google search before our chat today and saw that bitcoins at about $600 a coin, but, but is there a community that monitors this? Tell me a little bit about tracking the overall value of these currencies.

Yeah, it's a bit of a, you know, it's to, if you were to say to trade, go to the extreme and get really involved and actually trade cryptocurrencies, you would have to use a toolkit of different tools to get a handle on potential changes in price, you know, what different currencies are doing. And then you'd have a few different trading accounts. Like you might have a Coinbase account, you might have another account in Hong Kong. We use an exchange there called Bitfinex. And.

So you, you, on one hand, you have the place where you buy and sell it, Coinbase, Bitfinex.

They'Re great. You might have a separate wallet application where you store your bitcoins. Something like blockchain.info is the best one, is what I use.

And then you're gonna have different applications to figure out what people are saying. Reddit is actually a great place.

Interesting.

The Reddit bitcoin community is really strong. You do have to sift through a lot of crap, but there's some rich, rich content there. That's what I'd recommend if you want to just go and hear what people in the community are saying about what's going on. Like new regulation comes out, what does that mean for Bitcoin, etc.

There's an interesting Chrome plugin called Cryptokit which I use, which is cool. And it basically just kind of gives you like, almost like a trading account. It shows you bitcoin holdings, all the different currencies, what the prices are, doing, things like that.

And then for news, kind of More consumer friendly, like nicely edited news articles. I would check out CoinDesk.

CoinDesk.

Yeah.

Well, Tom, I am both enlightened and thoroughly confused, but this is a topic that I thought would go away and it hasn't. And so I think it's important for us to have this conversation.

Is there a way that people can.

Follow along with you as a thought leader on this topic or find out more about your investment firm in case people want to pursue this as a part of their portfolio?

Well, sadly, we are only available to Canadians, but if there's Canadians in the mix, we're actually only available to Canadian accredited investors. At the moment.

That might change. So I would just check. You know, the easiest thing I think would be follow me on Twitter, just Enochenko. And you know, I don't talk very publicly about bitcoin. We're pretty actually private about what we're up to.

Not really to be that secretive just to avoid the government oversight. No, I'm just kidding. No, just, just because we're. We're just basically hard at work on behalf of our investors and.

Yeah, so that's. Twitter is the best place right now. Otherwise, check me out. Kaneshenko, right? Yeah, just Kineshenko.

Cool. Well, Tom, thanks so much for hanging out with us at Freedom Fast Lane, for enlightening us and confusing us. And I'll be very interested a year to 24 months after this interview is posted, what has transpired. And we will. We'll see if you were right and if I was an idiot for not putting more into bitcoin. So thanks so much for hanging out with us at Freedom Fasting.

Yeah, my pleasure, man. And keep up the awesome work that you're doing. It's been inspiring.

Tom and I might disagree on if it's a viable investment because it doesn't meet my criteria of being backed in something like a company or real estate would be. But it is interesting to hear Tom talk about how bitcoin's technology might impact us. And I'm very curious to see how bitcoin being used peer to peer. Going mobile would affect freedom entrepreneurs in the coming years. What will happen to the global economy when the barrier of doing business goes down because transactions are easier? I'm very curious to see how that impacts our businesses, especially those of us who are freedom entrepreneurs and do a lot of transactions on the Internet. Now, of course, if you're interested more in investing, I am very open about my investments and the types of investments that I recommend. In fact, I lay out an entire investment plan here on the podcast. If you just go to freedomfastlane.com and search for investing or you just go to the podcast page, look for the investment topics. There's some of the most popular podcasts.

That we do where I lay out the investment strategy for after you've earned.

Your money, where to put it for.

Long term wealth and cash flow and.

If you liked this chat with Tom, go over to freedomfastlane.com do me a favor and give me a like on today's show.

Let Tom and I know that you appreciated this enlightening discussion.

Thanks for listening and I'll see you.

On the next episode.