What the Hell Are We Doing this For?
11 Dec 2025 · 62 min
Ryan Daniel Moran talks about building his physical products business, what he learned from the exit, and why making money matters less than you think. He breaks down his book's three stages: Grind, Growth, and Gold.
Chapters
Hey, friends, today I'm going to share.
With you an episode that I recorded on the Hustle and Flowchart podcast.
I hadn't met these guys before, but.
Man, did we have a lot of fun. And most importantly, we talked about the difference of doing things for a result or doing things for the joy of doing them.
This is a concept that I have.
Been learning and playing with for the last three to six months, really, since COVID got extended and realizing how much of my life I had spent doing things for the result. It's this very interesting paradox that I have been playing with where I realized that those who achieve the greatest results are really doubling down on something that is intrinsically motivating to them. And it's not because they're doing it for the result. It's because we as human beings tend to pay attention to other humans who are doubling down on something that is fun and meaningful, because we all want the experience of fun and meaningful work. So we go really deep into that in this episode. I hope you have almost as much fun listening to it as we had recording it.
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Mount Wolf and Joe Fear.
Wiki Wiki Wiki.
We're back again.
We're on a flow. We're flowcharting.
We are flow charting right now. It does not feel like hustling.
No, it's okay.
You can do both, but only in their time and place. Yeah, right now we're flowing. Right now we're staying the flow. Yeah. Who are we flowing with today? Mr. Matt.
Today we are talking to.
Who are you punching the air?
The founder of capitalism.com. Mr. Ryan Mor. Ryan. And Ryan, he's actually had quite a big impact on his. On our business without him even realizing it.
Tell me more.
Well, I'll tell Ryan on the episode because I do tell him how much he's impacted on our business and have a little.
I'm not gonna say what I was gonna say anyway.
Little from brain fart, huh? I did in this episode. Wasn't that. Wasn't that big, though?
No. Ryan left a massive impact. And it's. In a roundabout way Matt describes it.
And it's part of what a lot of our favorite listeners get in the mail, or is part of the notes, which we'll tell you about in a second. But, yeah, Ryan, he's very, very impressive in the way that he thinks. And he's grown an amazing business, ended up selling that exiting for eight figures and had massive realizations along the way. He's got a big following out there that, that follows his work and his thinking. Capitalism.com is, you know, kind of where a lot of his thoughts live. He has a podcast there as well. And basically he's had many realizations throughout the line, which is really similar to us as well in the way that our businesses have, have evolved over time. And it's really cool just the way he thinks, the way that just it's a time and place. So we talk a lot about how systems in general and established things in society and just all these layers of stuff, baseball included, because we talk. Baseball started the talk off with MLB and how weird baseball is and probably sports in general will be, but really how everything is reinventing right now. And this is a perfect time to build a platform, build a following and give value. And it's just like go micro, like not go broad. I think that was a big takeaway here.
Yeah, no, we talk a lot about the platform building. We talk a lot about his mindset. We talk about the importance of having sort of a North Star that you're constantly shooting for. We talk a little bit about like the Spotify deal with Joe Rogan and his ability to build a platform and how he's monetized that.
And also his book, of course, his.
Brand new book, which does break down the process of that.
Yeah, he has three phases. So his book is called 12 months to 1 million and that's a new book out. So 12 months to 1 million. And basically it's like a three phased way to start a business from scratch. He said basically he believes that only $10,000. If you invest $10,000 and follow this system, you can get to $1 million within 12 months. Yeah. Following his blueprint. So at a high level, you know, we break down what that looks like, the timeframes and the thinking behind all that.
We cover a lot of ground in this episode. Now as we're we're talking about it, I'm just like, wow, we covered a lot of shit with Ryan and it's all amazing.
It's all amazing. So, uh, let's leave it there. So we're taking notes for you as always. Uh, you have only two weeks. So this is within the two week window of it going live. Get the notes. Uh, either way, if you just go to hustleandflowchart.com comp that is hustleandflowchart.com Comp C O M P, you'll get the Notes for free. They're like basically four pages of decked out Cliff Notes that I guarantee you cannot take as good notes because Sue's the best. And actually maybe write in to our support@infovergreenprofits.com to tell us what person is sue writing in, you know, as a note taker.
That'll make more sense once you hear the episode.
Just. Just once. Just write in and let us know your thoughts, your answer, and say hi.
To sue, because sue is probably going to be the first one to see him.
Of course she will. So say hi to sue@infovergreenprofits.com and give her your answer. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. I don't even know what the answer is. So we'll see.
Okay.
Yes. And also, that open loop, that didn't make sense.
Yeah. Also, you can get the notes by texting COMP to 38470. Was going to throw that in real quick. And.
Yeah.
Now let's go talk to Ryan.
Let's do that. Ryan, we are recording now. How are you doing, my friend?
Oh, now I got to censor myself or even be more controversial.
You choose.
It's uncontroversial. That's more fun for everybody.
That's on you, brother. Well, thanks for joining us at work.
Now that we're talking about it.
Yeah, I'm gonna wait until I leave this space here.
It's a hotly debated topic here.
Well, none of my two male business partners. It's not.
Say that.
Nice.
Good to meet you.
Take care, everybody.
Good way to start. Oh, my God. All right. I don't know where to go from here. So how are you doing, man? Baseball's back. I know you're a baseball fan. We were talking about that.
You know, I wish they had just canceled the. If the Indians win a 60 game season and they win the World Series, does it even count?
Well, that's the debate. Like, yeah.
What's the World Series going to be like, you know, no one's going to be there. Exactly. I don't understand why you can have a 40,000 capacity stadium and no one is there. If the World Series happens and I can't pay ten grand to go sit in an empty stadium, what have I been working for? Like, what has all of this been for? What is the point of life anymore? I just wish they had canceled the season.
Yeah. No, I feel like whoever wins the whole thing this year, there'll always be that sort of asterisk next to that championship. You know, it's like, it's like the anti steroid.
You still have an asterisk. You're not sure it counts. It's not because you cheated, it's because it's because everybody died.
Well, you have a. Well, you have not a prediction but you kind of have this thing. Well VR. I'm kind of just put it out there here because I think it's a great idea and maybe some with the MLB will hear it.
I mean I actually wrote into the to the Indians a couple of times. It was like, like, please be the first team to pioneer this because it just makes sense to me that it is going. There's no going back to normal. There's no going back to 40,000 person stadiums. It's going to be different from here on out. And it makes sense to me that the way we'll experience almost all sports moving forward is that we're going to have VR sets and we're going to watch the game from wherever on the field we want. There'll be a 360 camera installed into the stadium. We'll be able to watch from any seat or any part of the diamond. I can watch from the pitcher's mound or the catcher's helmet. I can beam into the feed of the people talking in the dugout or the conversation that the first baseman is having with the other infielders or the guy who's at first base. Or I can tune into a YouTube streamer who is commentating on the game. I don't need to listen to a paid announcer. I can listen to some dude on YouTube or Spotify talk about it. So I would pay a premium for that versus going to the stadium or for the $120 a year MLB.com subscription. So it just makes sense to me that that's going to be the next wave. And then you have premium seating that's all like enclosed and that's going to be the in person experience.
Well, and then imagine the sort of advertising marketing implications. Right. You could have more. What's the word I'm trying to blank.
Like when customized ads.
Yeah. Where it's more targeted. Right. Like they could know what you're into and put ads that are targeted to you right inside the virtual reality.
My browsing history, I'm going to be pixeled and now I'm seeing different banners and different radio ads depending on what I have browsed in the past.
So.
Who'S Zuckerberg's favorite baseball team? I know he's by the Giants, so maybe I'm just thinking they have the VR technology, they have Oculus and all that stuff. The ad platform, I don't know if.
He'S ever talked about.
That's exactly right.
We got as lucky. Where is this headed, man?
Yeah, I think. I think a lot of the Silicon Valley people are really on the esports thing, which I haven't totally figured out myself yet. I don't quite get it, but a.
Lot of people have. Matt, you're behind E Ball there.
A lot of people have.
I mean, they're grow. They're growing in market share faster than any other sport. I mean, they're the fastest growing sport among people under 30. So I mean, they're winning at something.
Yeah, they're building arenas.
But part of it is that they've just got the technology. I mean, that's part of it is like they have the technology to be able to meet a young crowd, whereas baseball is still in the 1900s. They really are.
Yeah, they're locked back there. It's so true. All right, well, yes, you were saving some stories, Matt.
Well, so you don't know this, Ryan, but because this is actually our first time interacting through voice. I mean, there's been some email exchanges, but so you actually had a huge impact on the trajectory of our business. So you. You had a podcast, I believe it was one where Mike Dillard interviewed you, and you guys talked about the concept of. Of platform building. Build a big platform, focus on building the platform. And then once you built it, then you can monetize by selling affiliate products or even taking equity in people's companies.
Right.
And we. I heard that podcast. I listened to the whole thing. I actually took notes on the podcast, told Joe to go listen to the podcast, sent him my notes that I took on the podcast, and that sort of shaped what we did with our business model. We decided, let's go and build a podcast. Let's build a huge audience. Once we have a huge audience, then we can go and leverage that audience into sort of rev share advisory deals, things like that, into other companies. And that's literally what we've done over the last. We've been in business together for 13 years, but that's the last four years of our business is growing this podcast, building the platform, and now we've actually got equity positions in two different software companies.
That fantastic.
Been pretty lucrative. And that was sort of something that. That interview that you did with Mike Dillard sort of drove us on that trajectory.
That's great. And my favorite part of this story is that you took legitimate notes. Because every cheesy webinar starts with, you might want to grab a pen and some paper to take notes on today's lesson. So the fact that you actually did makes me really happy. That's great. I'm so glad it was impactful for you, and I'm so glad it's been lucrative for you. Thanks so much for telling me.
Well, even better, actually, on the note thing, we take notes because of his notes from your podcast with Mike, we now take notes on every single episode. That. So we actually have a note taker right now listening to this fabulous baseball discussion that's probably gonna make its way into some notes, which then gets sent into a newsletter. All this stuff. So it's.
What is your notetaker's name?
Sue. And her last name? Yeah, I gotta.
That's funny. That's funny. My writer's name is sue as well. So I wonder if sue is listening to this right now and she's taking notes about herself. Is she writing in the third person?
Ooh, sue, what do you think about that?
Is she writing in the third person or is that the fourth person? Like, what is it? Because she has to wr it neutrally. But she's writing about her. She is writing about herself, but she's writing from a different. So what tense is that? I wish there was a note taker who could do that.
Well, Sue, I know you're listening. Put the answers in the notes, and then people are gonna have to go get the notes@hustleflowchair.com she responds to the.
Comments of people talking about that. What tense is that that's imaginable? This is some woo woo consciousness stuff.
Brain swelling. No, but those notes are actually our lead magnet from these episodes. So to get people on our mailing list after list this episode, they could go grab the notes that we took on this episode. So. And it's like in depth. Cliffs Notes. Right. It. So that's. That really shaped our business model is that's how we grow. Our list is the podcast to the new to the notes that we take. And then we. Our monetization is through affiliate marketing and our equity deals.
Amazing. That's fantastic. What a cool story, guys.
Thank you.
Catalyst you so. Thank you. But let's get into you, man. Give us the. Because you've done some amazing things that are last. Like, I was a contributor of capitalism.com for I think it was about a year or so, what, a few years ago. We're saying that's like 20 years ago. Internet speak in Internet years. Yeah, yeah. Take us back though, because I know you've done some interesting things before then did some exits, scaling. You have a book now. So. Yeah. Where did Ryan start? And then.
Well, I mean, I mean, I'm best known for building physical products, brands, and my biggest success story is taking a $600 investment, growing that with my partner Matthew, to a business that was pacing about $10 million in top line revenue. We sold that at a 5x multiple, which at the time was a lot. This is, I think in 2017, we finalized the exit.
Nice.
That's where I made 60 to 70% of my wealth. And then I have my podcast@Capitalism.com, i put all my attention after the exit into Capitalism.com to build a platform to inspire entrepreneurs and to push against what I see as the movement that is kind of peaking at this point of an anti capitalist movement.
My background is growing up poor in Cleveland, Ohio and always wanting to be an entrepreneur and being the young kid who I didn't have anything on paper to be a shot. And now I kind of get my excitement by backing the other kids who didn't have a shot and giving them a clear plan to have a successful business. And that's what we do@capitalism.com.
So obviously the Cleveland Indians goal came in because you grew up in Cleveland.
What made you decide, oh, I want to own a baseball team one day. Where did that whole goal trajectory come from?
Yeah, kid, you not. Since I was like nine years old, I wanted to be the general manager of a baseball team. That was my dream job.
GM specifically. That's interesting.
Yes. I wanted. So I've always been. You ever see Mighty Ducks? Remember Charlie, the main character who was played by the guy from Dawson's Creek?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yes.
And one time he goes into.
His coach's office and he's like, I make a better manager than I would a player coach. That was me. So I played baseball. But my. But I was always. I was the kid. I would make up the lineup and give it to my coach. But this is what it should be.
Wow.
I think you're wrong about your lineup. This is what, this is what it should be. Half the time I wasn't even on it. Well, you knew better. We want to win today, guys.
Ride that bench. Not look for, look out for splitters.
So I was, I was a better. I was stink like a manager. And so to this day, my brother and I have kept in touch by playing Madden on our PlayStations. I've done that ever since I went away to College. So, like, 15 years. And to this day, he cares about beating me. I care about having a better team on paper, with higher profit margins.
To this day, I'm in owner mode, managing profit margins, and he's in there just kicking my ass. Crushing you when it comes to field.
Yeah. All right.
But Since I was 9, I wanted to be. To be the general manager of a team. Then I kind of ran the numbers and realized that in order to do that, you've got to get the right job with the right degree at the right time, and somebody else is in control of who gets that job. I have a better chance of just owning the team. And so that's why I want to be the owner of a Major League baseball team.
So that you can appoint yourself the gm?
That's right. Yes. At least give me veto power.
You will. You will. Well, talk about life, because I know it's not really, really the destination. It's all about the journey to get to that point. Right. It's this path, and obviously you want to get there. But describe kind of like the psychology that you operate from with that goal in mind.
You know, that's an evolving thing. I mean, I was just thinking today, like. I mean, I still wonder every day, like, what the hell is all this for? Like, if money or the end goal is the goal, we've kind of missed the point point. And my relationship with the moment or the process changes. So there are days that I just love the process, and there are days I'm like, what the hell am I doing? What's going on here? I think it's par for the course. I think that contrast is what actually keeps us sharp.
So the contrast kind of like this struggle, this shit. I don't know where I'm going. Oh, aha. Moment. It's kind of this ebbs and flows.
But even to go a little bit more granular than that, the what the hell am I doing? Moment is usually a sign that I'm focused on something that I shouldn't be focused on. It's usually a sign for me to step back or slow down. It usually means that I'm not excited about whatever is in front of me, which means I need to regroup for a second. And this happened today. This morning. I was having one of those what the hell am I doing? Moments. And then I look back at my calendar. Oh, I took zero days off last week.
I worked through the weekend, and I didn't go to the gym as regularly. I didn't have. Okay, well, it would make sense that I would be having a. What the hell is all this for? Because I haven't given myself that moment to slow down and enjoy what's in front of me. So it's how we adjust to the process. It's how we, we change course when the process isn't fulfilling. And so my mind, I think a lot of entrepreneurs temptation is to hurry up and rush right through that is to over caffeinate, overstimulate, over, come up with a new idea, over build bridges rather than slow down and gather our bearings again before we hit the go button again. And so I can't tell you how jazzed I am for this chat, because this is what I do. This is what the hell I do all this for.
I was hoping that this, this wasn't the thing in the calendar where you're.
Like, what am I doing with my life?
I'm curious about, like, the, the impact of money. Because you, you know, money does not bring happiness. Everyone's heard that saying and all that obviously can help a lot of things, but how was your, how did things change? Or did they change when you did sell your business for, you know, multiple, what was it, eight figures? I believe. Right. And, you know, so like, how did that, did that change your psyche? Or is that when you realized, oh, hold up.
You know, I think we need to update the phrase money doesn't buy happiness.
Because money doesn't buy happiness, but it does alleviate suffering.
Money alleviates a lot of suffering, but the alleviation of suffering does not bring happiness. Yes, like, suffering actually gives us happiness.
Suffering is actually like a precursor, a necessary part of, of happiness. Our brains work. In contrast, the amount of happiness we can experience is in direct correlation to the amount of suffering that we have experienced. So money doesn't buy happiness, but it does alleviate suffering. And so for me, I alleviated a lot of suffering and opened up a new kind of part of exploration of a greater level of happiness. But in order to experience a greater level of happiness, there has to be also a new set of experiences of suffering or at least pain. And there has to be, because otherwise it's just a neutral, boring existence.
It's like neutral life. Yeah, you're literally just like, that's right. Cool. I have nothing on the schedule. I really don't. Yeah, you just checked it out. You checked out from life, basically.
Yeah, that's. I mean, that's neutrality. That's retirement. That's being done. So for me, my work over the last several years has Been just even being willing to ask the question, what does it look like to operate from a place of excitement versus need or necessity? And that's an ongoing thing. That is an ongoing evaluation that I continue to explore.
Yeah, that's interesting. I guess the motivations, because they completely shift. And we had a similar shift as well. And it's almost like this oh, shit moment. It's like, yeah, you've reached this level where you're like, I got everything I need financially. Like, got a beautiful house, safe neighborhood. I own everything I need. What now? And I think that's kind of the thing that most people aren't thinking about with their goals or at least when it comes to money. How would you. What are some of the struggles that you had once you hit your. I wouldn't say that was your goal, the money, but, like, that point in your life, because that's huge.
I mean, I lost a bunch of it. I lost a bunch of it afterwards.
Because now you're an investor.
Or now you think you have the golden touch, and so you do a lot of stupid things. So I lost a good chunk of it. Thankfully, I invested some of it really well, too. So.
That could have gone horribly wrong. And parts of it did.
The other thing was one of the struggles was even getting out of the mentality that you have to grind for money and allowing where you make your money to come from a place of excitement, creativity, and creation for the first time. That was a new muscle. And those are also far less predictable things, because so many people hold themselves back from what they really want to do, because there's not a predictable path to profit, whereas the grind does have a predictable path to profit. It's just not as exciting. And so there is a dance between the brain's logical evaluation of where this is going and the body's natural excitement of saying, this is where I want to go. And learning how to navigate that is probably a four podcast series for sure.
Yeah, I know. That's definitely something that we can relate to because we've. You know, I think it's something that people who don't have as much money as they want to have, it's. It's hard for them to relate to because everybody's like, oh, you're just saying that because you're. You know, you've been there. Right? But we. We've had that experience where we've made a lot of money. We perfectly secure, had as much money as we needed in the bank account, and then we had this, like, guilt feeling of, like, I really should be at my computer getting some shit done today. Right. Like, I really need to be doing some. Some stuff. And then you look at your bank account, you look at, like, your schedule and what's going on, and you're like, actually, I really don't. But then by not doing it, we start to go. And, like, we start to feel guilty about it. And it's this weird, like, mental cycle that we fall into.
Fears of getting soft.
Yes.
Like, fears of losing your edge. Fears of. And that happens, right? Like, people get. Get. Get fat and happy, and then somebody takes them over. And so how do you. How do you maintain the hunger? And the only way that hunger is maintained is by having a healthy amount of desire. And desire has to come from one of two places. It has to come from lack, which is not as powerful, or it has to come from excitement, which is harder to discover. And so most of us tend to default to looking at where there is lack and being motivated from a place of lack. And you can stay driven by lack your entire life. You just won't ever get to a place where you're doing the things that really excite you. But then there's, like, a bridge that we have to cross of going into the place that is of being motivated by excitement, which is more intrinsic motivation. But it's not as predictable. It's harder to discover, and it changes.
This is called being a human.
It is.
I think it's super beneficial to have some sort of North Star that you're striving for. Right. Like, you've got the Cleveland Indians thing, right? And it's like. Like that sort of creates a filter that you can start to begin to pass things through. Does this get me closer or further away from that? And I. And I think having something like that in your life is really important. And I know that's one of the places where our business we've struggled a little bit with. The motivation is like, what are we really shooting for? Like, once you've got enough money and you're. You're doing what you want to do on a daily basis now what are we shooting for?
We actually had one, Matt. At one time it was called owning the San Diego Chargers. This is no joke. But then they fucking moved away. So we're like, well, we don't like la.
We gotta figure out a new North Star.
I'm facing a similar crisis because the Indians are probably gonna change their name.
That's right.
Yeah.
Now that the Redskins are the Washington.
Football team, it's probably gonna be The Cleveland Spiders at some point, which was their original name from the 1800s.
Interesting.
Oh, hooray.
Go eight legged guys.
Well, you'll have a say in that one day.
One day.
Well, talk. I'm curious about your mindset because I know that, well, in your new book, 12 Months to 1 Million, I know that's one of the chapters that you dedicate is the mindset. And it sounds like obviously starting up from scratch. Anywhere you go, you got to have a good mindset. So you obviously have a great one. You're human though, so you're again, valleys and ebbs and flows, I'm imagining. But what are some principles that you kind of live by day to day, week to week, to keep your head on straight with that path?
If I could just pass one on, it would be the longer term you can think, the better decisions you will make. Because so many of us are in this after, like, what is the immediate result going to be? But the longer you can think, the better your results will be, even in the short term. I was chatting with one of my mentors last week and we're about ready to launch this thing called the Capitalism Incubator, which is where we're going to be investing and advising a group of brands that come and follow our process. And the person said to me, you're going to want to do a really big launch out of the gate. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, $5 million. And they said, but you need to find a way to sell this in a way that gets better over time and doesn't require you to do the exact same thing that you did this time again next time. And that completely made me change the approach of, okay, if I want to be selling this five years from now or 10 years from now, how do I need to sell this now? Because one was stacking the deck for a really big launch right now, but no long term momentum. But another would require me to go really small right now, but put me in a better position five to ten years from now. And so there was a little bit of an ego pill that I needed to swallow in order to make the decision of how am I going to promote this in a way that'll be growing five years from now versus I'm going to put all my cards in here and then have nothing. I mean, I'd be doing the exact same thing five years from now. And so if you can think about five, ten years from now and do those things now, you will get even better results even in the short term. So that Is the one thing that I wish I could pass on to every entrepreneur.
How do you. It's interesting you said this. We interviewed Steven Kotler the other week. Flow Research totally butchered his long company name. But he said something about how when you envision yourself years, I think it's past past like two or three years, you start to disassociate with that being you. So you kind of don't you almost like the goals are someone else's goals the further out in the future that you set them. So it's sometimes harder for people to stick with their goals and actually feel pumped up. It's like weight loss. It's like I want to go lose £100 or whatever and I have this three year plan. Are there any things that you would do to stay on course or motivate yourself or someone else for a long term vision like that?
Yeah. So you brought up weight loss as the example. So I weigh about 180 right now. I'm at the end of a bulk. I want to come down to about 160. And I was telling somebody, I realize now that I don't have to lose 20 pounds, I have to maintain 160. So. Because I know how to lose 20 pounds, but I want to lose it and keep it. So what I have to do here is not think about how do I hit the goal, but I have to think about now how do I sustain the goal. Which means whatever I'm going to be eating when I'm at 160, I need to be doing that now. However, I'm going to be moving when I'm at 160. That's what I need to be doing now. And so by it's flipping the whole thing on its head. It's not working towards 160. It is living in 160 right now and allowing the results to follow. Because I want to maintain that and build in those habits now and then the weight stays off forever. So it is about zooming into the vision but then doing the exact same things that you'll be doing then right now. That's the long term results brought into right now that create even better results in the short term as well.
So basically act and do the things that you would be doing once you're at the goal. Don't wait till you get to the goal to start doing them.
That's exactly right.
If I'm trying to lose 20 pounds, I'm going to do a whole bunch of cardio. I'm going to burn myself out. In my binge eat, if I'm maintaining 160, then I'm getting 10,000 steps a day and I'm lifting weights. Things that I can do and will do for the rest of my life. And that will also take me to 160. And it might be a difference of two weeks.
That's the thing. And it'll just kind of happen probably without you noticing. You're not going to get stressed out. It's just ingrained in these habits that you're instilling for yourself. That's smart. I like that. So it's almost like inverse thinking. You're kind of flipping it a little bit in terms of your actions. Obviously your goal's still there, but you're making them a lot more tangible now rather than years down the line. Yeah.
I mean, we can think about this in terms of business too, right. If I want to be making $5 million, what am I going to be doing when I make 5 million bucks?
Like, how many leads am I going to be getting? What types of leads am I going to be getting? I need to start looking for those now. Yeah, I need to start doing. Those are the same things that I should be doing now. But most of us say that we will work towards it, but the work towards it means do a bunch of shit in the way so that then we can do the thing that we want to do. But if we flip it, it's just when and get to that place. What do you want to do? All right, let's work a little bit now. And we're going to optimize that thing, and that's going to be the thing that ends up growing over the next five years.
Yeah. I love it. I love it. That's perfect. And that kind of sounds like your book in a way, because you have everything done in what, three phases for starting a business, and then within 12 months, you're at 1 mil is the goal. So I don't know if. Do you have anything else or. I kind of want to chat about phases a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So can you break down what those three phases are in kind of just the overarching thing about this book, because it's kind of right on this vein, it sounds like.
Yeah. So my book is written for the new entrepreneur who is starting something with a seven figure vision and a seven figure business. I just break this down into four products at 25 sales a day, which is 100 sales a day at a $30 price point, which is $3,000 a day, which is a Million dollar business. So the only thing we're trying to reverse engineer is how do we get four products to 25 sales a day at a $30 price point? I break this into three stages. The first stage is the grind. The grind is all of the hard decisions that you have to make within the first four months in order to take a sale. One sale. So that's the goal in the first four months, is deciding who my customer is, what the product is, how we're going to launch this thing, how we're going to fund this thing, what we're going to call it, what our first product line is going to be, who are our partners going to be. All of that hard stuff we get out of the way. We take one sale, get a prototype, take a sale. Stage two, those next four months, I call the growth. The growth is going from one sale to 25 sales a day. When we prove that we can take 25 sales a day, we have basically built the road. We have laid the pavement down for this road, which makes it a lot easier for more cars to come on this road. So the third phase, the third stage is called the gold. And it's where we launch products two, three, and four on the same road and get them to 25 sales a day. So at the end, we've got four products at 25 sales a day, which is a million dollar business. That's the book summed up in a minute and a half.
Now, is the book specifically focused on physical products, or do you talk about software and digital products and things like that as well?
I mean, my background is in physical stuff. It's actually a Perry Belcher that I went up to one day when I was 23 years old. I was like, perry, if you were young and fresh out of college, what would you do with your life? And he said, as many chicks as possible.
Sounds like him.
Yeah, sounds like. And then he said, you know what I would do? I would sell stuff. Not hopes and dreams, not all this fruit. Fruit. I would sell stuff. People are always gonna buy stuff. I was like, that's really good advice. And I took that to heart, and I focus on physical products. The same principles, specifically around audience building, launching, partnering, and all of those will apply to any business. But my background is in physical products. And so it's written from that context.
Yeah. And it can be applied either way. Shoot, I had a brain fart. Matt, take it.
I want to ask about audience building. Is it still. Is your philosophy still focus on building an audience? Once you've built an Audience then kind of find the right products to sell to those people. Or do you kind of approach it from the product first, then build the audience?
Yeah, well, I mean, audience building is part of the process. So it's not about building the audience. And then, and that's a mistake that I made for a long time was build the audience. And then you build the audience by doing like, I'll tell you, you, my podcast was never bigger than when I was simply talking about the businesses and the brands that I was actively building. That was when my. And so at some point I just, I flipped. It was like, all right, if I just go all in on talking to my audience, it'll go even bigger. It's not the case. They were following my journey. And so I have now been going back to, okay, like, I gotta. I don't like teaching, I like sharing what I'm learning along the journey. And so now I'm back to that. Just today, this morning, I posted the almost final label for my from the next brand that I'm about to launch. It's called, it's called Switch Nootropics. It's three products, on, off and out. So on Switch, on Switch is like your morning get up and get into flow nootropic. And the off is evening decompress. Throw it in your water, non alcoholic way to chill at the end of the day. A doctor once told me that the thing he wishes he could get every entrepreneur to do is have some sort of way to turn off their brain at the end of the day, even if it was pouring themselves a glass of whiskey, is giving their brain that signal like, I'm done, I'm off, done. And so I just made it. And then the last product is out, which is like before bed, get the best night, best sleep of your life. Crash out, come up on, off, out.
Over and over and over again. I like that.
So I just posted the almost final label on my Instagram today because I'm documenting the launch of this new business and that's me building the audience for switching. But I'm not like, I'm not creating content for it, right? I'm not sitting here going like, let me tell you why you should take Choline. Choline has three important factors. No, no one cares. So I have learned that building an audience is not about teaching or creating content. I think creating content is the most overrated thing that you can do, but sharing the journey is the most underrated thing that you can do.
Do.
Being really active among the people who are already following you and showing up is way more powerful than teaching on social media.
Yeah.
So that's been my big shift over the last six to 12 months or so.
Well, I also feel like there's something to be said about, like, if you bring people along on the journey, they almost feel a little more invested in the actual products themselves. So they're probably a lot more likely to buy because they're like, I remember when he was just. This was just a thought in his head. And I saw that whole journey to it being launched. I got to see what the final product looks like.
That's exactly right. That is 100% it. So I recommend documenting the journey at the very beginning as much as you are comfortable doing, rather than trying to build the audience and then launch it. But I do like partnerships with influencers and other audiences as a way to kickstart businesses and get that 25 sales a day as fast as possible.
Yeah, you leverage someone else's audience, you relate to them. Maybe build something synergistically between you two. Yeah. Or just acquire the audience somewhere. You know, you can also do that.
That's right.
I like what you said about the whole behind the scenes kind of documentation we've been nerding out on. There's a band called ajr or Electronic. It's a group, but they create. They basically break down how they make their music in. Logic Pro is what they use. So a music program on the Mac. But it's like, holy crap. The fact that a band is now breaking down how they created this hit that's all over the world now, or multiple hits, it's just like, man. I'm like, holy shit. This is like the best marketing. Because now I'm like, dude, I love these guys. And I'm gonna tell everybody else about this because I'm seeing, like, the secret sauce.
I heard the music on the radio. I'm like, yeah, their songs are pretty catchy. It's all right. I'm kind of into them. And then I looked them up on YouTube, saw all the behind the scenes of them making the actual music, and now I'm like, I love this band. This band is amazing. That's cool.
Think about, like, I was even thinking about this with, like, the mlb, you know, like just all this time and all these sports that are offline. It's like, how about the behind the scenes of the prep to the season or with this weird ass? I mean, like, there might not be allowed to do some of this stuff with their contracts, but any kind of behind the Scenes for any company team. It's like, think about the loyalty you're going to get from the fan base. They're just going to tell their friends, hey, you should go follow the Indian or the spiders. And you know, follow, go follow the spiders.
So now here's a great example of what you're talking about. So it was, I think in 2013 there was a documentary called Romney. No, it was called Mitt and it was a documentary about Mitt Romney. And it started.
In 2006 or seven, I think.
I watched this, I vaguely remember this.
And it showed both of his presidential runs. It just took all the footage of Mitt Romney's run and went behind the scenes and showed him like struggling with the feedback he's getting in the media. And it was the most humanizing 90 minutes of somebody who had every politician who runs for president is taken through the mud. Right. But like, after watching it, I didn't vote for Mitt Romney. And I was like, I really want, want to go back and move.
Right. Because you understand the human. Now you're like, oh, that's where he's coming from.
It was just so. You just get so immersed in this person's experience and their perspective and the reason why. And had he been that person, he probably would have had a better chance. And so that's documenting the process versus what most politicians do, which is creating content, which is your four point plan.
Yeah, yeah. Stand on a pedestal somewhere and talk from above. But yeah, it's the behind the scenes. Like that's the stuff we do. We have these therapy session episodes on our podcast once a month. And this was because our audience asked us, hey, we want to know about what you're up to. Now here are these amazing people you bring on the show all the time. You get a little bit of in there, you know, our perspective in the intro. But that's why we started these episodes. And some of the favorite, those are the ones we get the most replies for in our support and our email. And it's pure loyalty. I mean, that's like where the fans are just like, holy shit, I can't believe you shared this. It's helped so much and it's just, we've seen it. I think every business can do that in some way.
Well, I think that's the power of podcasting as a medium in the first place. I mean, look at what Joe Rogan and some of these celebrity podcasters are doing right now by essentially bringing on these celebrities and having normal like dude to dude conversations with Them about, like, smoking weed and doing psychedelics and shit.
You know, it's like, my brother used to say that he would really fall in love with a band when he would see them perform live, because you, all of a sudden, you just feel this different connection with them than the polished version that you hear on the radio.
Exactly.
Back then. So the same is true in business. The more you can just share the inner workings of what is going on, the more of a connection you'll have with your fans and customers.
I love it. And that's. Honestly, that's kind of why we started this podcast, too, is to get that side out of someone like you, you know, and to have these conversations that are. It's not going to be a YouTube video you put up there that's been clipped up, you know, 30, 40 times, like everyone does, because to make you sound or, you know, present in a concise way, even if it's an hour long, like, you're going to see the human side of this conversation. That's the long form. And, yeah, talking about Joe Rogan, that's probably why he's so damn popular, because three hours long, you finally see the human, like Elon Musk, for instance, you're just like, oh, wow. Wow, he's got an interesting mind.
Exactly right.
That's exactly right. He has a way of disarming the other person because he doesn't come across as combative, which I think myself and a lot of the audience wishes he would push back a little bit more. But he's able to get the other person disarmed, which creates the very humanizing experience that he does.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It seems like we don't have to go down that rabbit hole. I was just gonna say it seems like with some people, he will push back, and then other people, he really should push back more. I just remember the Adam Conover episode. I'm like, I think maybe Joe Rogan's pushing him a little too hard. I think he's about to start crying here. But.
And I'm thinking about Andrew Yang and all the things that I wanted him to push him on. That's a rabbit hole that we'll.
Yeah. See you on Twitter. And, yeah, there was all the universal.
Basic income talk and all that kind of stuff, but, yeah, we don't have to go down those rabbit holes because that. That's probably a whole other podcast episode too early. So I want to talk about once you have an audience, once you've got a platform, let's say, for instance, you have a podcast that's listened to by like 50,000 people a month, for instance. Just a random example. How would you figure out, how would you figure out like what products to introduce to like a specific audience?
If you are building a business in the, to serve that audience, then it's just a matter of looking at what things they already buy.
But I don't know. And maybe in a case where you have 50,000 downloads and you serve entrepreneurs and Internet business owners, then you would want to look at who the person that you want to work with is and create criteria for the types of business that I don't know, you want to create equity in and start talking about that and documenting the experience of the businesses that you already had equity. And if you do that and you can show their growth and the inner workings of those conversations, then you get more people who resonate with that. So it is either speaking to what the person already does or it's calling out the ideal client by showing those who are already your ideal client to the rest of the community and saying, I want more people like this.
That's how I like that. That, that's. Yeah, we could do that right now. Matt.
Well, technically we did promote some affiliate offers on this podcast in the past and then when those affiliate products did well, we actually partnered with competing businesses that were in the same niche.
So it's not going to work out in all cases.
Yeah, but we, we, I mean our, our, our way of doing that has essentially Ben to mention affiliate products. If they go over well then figure out how can we get deeper involved on products like that.
That's great, that's great. That's perfect.
Yeah, well that's, I mean, so the platform thing, I know, I think it was brought up somewhere maybe in our research and some conversations you had, but you've mentioned Joe Rogan as well as part of like hey, this power of a platform and the fact that you can build an audience. And now you have Spotify coming in and offering you 100 mil for, you know, a handful of years licensing. It's not like they bought them out. And that, that was always in the back of our mind. Him and Tim Ferriss, those are the two guys we've always modeled like, okay, they could sell out a frickin mushroom coffee on Amazon like that.
And to a lesser extent, Pat Flynn as well. Pat Flynn has done a lot of that kind of stuff really well lately.
Too true.
Yeah. I've always wondered why Pat didn't do more of that. And he started to recently And I think it's going to treat him really well.
Yeah, no, I think it's going there. And that's the power of the platform. And that's, I guess, wherever you're going with things, if it's your own product or with our case, a lot of affiliate marketing and equity and all that stuff.
Yeah, platform building, it's just this realization. It's what you've had the last, what, six months or so you said. I think that's for you with capitalism dot com. I'm kind of curious to hear where that's going now since it seems like that's a big focus, not all your focus since you have the supplement line too. But how are you building that out as a platform and what's the future look like?
It's funny you should ask me this today because for a long time I thought that I had and wanted to build up the platform by offering my opinion and analysis of what is going on in the world. And I now realize that you don't change minds by debate. You only change minds by leading by example.
Example.
And so my work is being humble enough and seeing if I am willing to be humble enough to.
Be the type of entrepreneur and be the type of capitalist that changes people's minds by documenting my own journey rather than debating the merits of universal basic income. Unless people want to do that, in which case I would love to do that. And I will get those opportunities, but I will not get those opportunities by courting them. I will get those opportunities by having the audience that already trusts my opinion because of how I have created value for them in the past. My strategy or my hope of capitalism is to build an audience that also gives me the ability to step into more intellectual conversations like this one to talk about policy and how we create a better world moving forward through the lens of somebody who has done that in his private life. I don't know that I've earned that yet. I don't know that I have earned that right.
And I want to. And I want to be there now. So it is figuring out what I will be doing when I'm there and doing those things right now.
Right now. Yeah, yeah. And you mentioned there's kind of this anti capitalism push too. There's just an interesting time right now that you're heading this on, honestly, like head on.
Kind of curious what you're.
Do you want to get into the politics stuff now?
Let's do it.
Rapid fire. Let's go.
So like in the world of COVID right now, I Mean, I definitely see what you're talking about, about the kind of anti capitalism sentiment right now because you've got Covid and we're starting to see some failures on some of the systems that are in place. So, you know, I just want.
Yeah, maybe your thoughts on just the state, state as it is right now with the systems that are out there, the ones that we see failing and the ones that definitely need to be reinvented. I mean that stupid example you have MLB right here with the 60 game season that we brought up in VR, you know, like that's one of them. But that's a.
Obviously I think what we are witnessing is the beginning of the end of big structures and big systems. So a few years ago when Amazon, when Amazon was starting to consolidate, I have a lot of Amazon sellers who follow my work. I was saying the way through this is to build a micro brand. It's by picking a very small audience, going all in on them and developing products for them. It's not by selling more spatulas, it's by going after the very small group of people and serving them like crazy. And I think we are seeing kind of a reflection of that in the world we're seeing over the last 15 years. We put everything on a grand stage and you have the beginning of big platforms and big structures. And I think we're starting to see that crumble. And my hope is that means that federal powers become more state and local powers. It means that there is more room for people to be focused on their existing customers and clients rather than. And you can build a really profitable enterprise just focusing on your small group of people that you are creating change for. Rather than going out and trying to be the billionaire, you become the billionaire by creating a brand that serves a very specific group of people. So I think we are starting to see that trend shift in the macro where we have the end of big government, the end of big religion, and we're gonna have some crying growing pains for that. We might have one more wave of a demand for big government, but ultimately all big structures end up crumbling and going back to the power of individuals. And I just think that's where we are in the world, wavering.
Yeah, well, I think you're seeing it even on like the micro level too of just like the one to one, like uber, Airbnb, that kind of stuff as well is like, you know, the. When it used to be the big taxi services that owned every, you know, owned the transportation, getting you from the airport to your hotel. Now it's all Uber. You used to see the hotels owning it all, now it's all Airbnb. And I feel like you're starting to see that kind of thing happen more and more. It's like the, the smaller businesses are kind of getting more of a voice, but now that one to one kind of mod seems to be growing, so there's less need for the giant infrastructures of these big businesses.
That's right. If you want to go big now, you have to think about the one to one interaction. The way you big any business is to think about how do you make it succeed on a micro level, make it see it on an individual level. And that's the only way to get scale at this point. So many entrepreneurs, especially Internet entrepreneurs, just want to scale right out of the gate. But you scale by having a one to one experience that is so good that now can be taken to one to many.
Yeah, this reminds me of like the, you know, the thousand true fans concept. It's like you don't need a massive big old platform. And we had James Altucher in the show and he's like, you can have a solid six figure business and live like a billionaire. And so it's like, come on, like, refrain what you're doing and your goals and it's probably going to help you from not stressing out building this thing too. But you're solving a genuine need. Need for a group of people who will trust you because you're speaking to them directly.
And I must say, I think every time we give advice, we're really giving advice to ourselves. This is the advice I need right now.
Because I think for many years I thought with a name like capitalism.com and had to be this big platform and it was only by running into the wall and hitting my head against it over and over and over again that you realize you don't build a platform by trying to build a platform. You build a platform by having a meaningful impact in people's lives.
And that creates a bit of a crisis of meaning for me for a good year and a half, which makes me come back to, okay, what am I doing? Oh, you know what I really like doing with my time? Conversations like this one that actually have an impact on one person, it helps them go start a business and start a podcast and it's doing that work over and over and over again. This is the terrible mind fuck of it all guys, is like if we just let ourselves do the things that we naturally enjoy, the process of doing everything would unfold. So Effortlessly for us.
It's so true.
And I don't know how, like, it was so much fun for me to be on Mike's podcast that one time that you heard it and took it and ran with it. I had so much fun on this podcast. While we're here hanging out and sue is writing about herself in the ninth person.
If we just allowed ourselves to do more of those things, everything we would want would just naturally unfold. But we think that if there's something that we want, then we have to, like, resist against it until we get it. And this is. This is the lesson that life just keeps. Like. Like, are you ready to learn this? How about now? Would you like to learn this one? Would you like to learn? So I have now kind of made at least realized it again, hopefully for the last time, that the way that I get what it is that I want is to be in that mode and to create that type of value, rather than going and trying to create a platform that gives me what I want. It is about going to the person that you want to serve and giving them everything you got.
Yeah. Damn. Nailed it. I don't have anything else to say on top.
It might seem random, but it popped in mind because I just had a baby last year, and I think you did as well, if I'm. Yeah, yeah. Because we were going back and forth, and I believe you have another kid as well. So you have two, correct?
Yeah, that's right.
How are you? Like, I'm just thinking of the kids now. I'm like, oh, my God. Like, I've never had this kind of thinking where I see systems literally are crumbling or reinventing or just completely done for. How do you. Like, how are you preparing your kids? And, yeah, I know they're pretty dang young still, but how do you anticipate? Yeah. Like, what do you see this thing looking like for them? And how are you going to guide them?
Well, I think it's important to not put our judgment of the world onto them in the sense of, like, somebody was saying, I feel so bad for kids and, like, growing up in this world right now. And I think. But that's based on our judgments about how we grew up and what we enjoyed growing up. Like, my daughter has a completely different set of things that she's into and is experiencing, and those are for her to decide. And it's not my place to judge if she likes Disney movies or if she likes to be outside right now. I can guide her and make certain judgment calls, but it's not my role to decide where her natural interests go. One of the great gifts that my parents gave to me was they never tried to push their interests onto me. They encourage whatever my interests were. And so I'm the first entrepreneur in the family. I don't know where the genes got crossed and made me want to do that. That. But they encouraged that.
Yeah.
So I'll encourage wherever my kids show genuine interest now. And more practical things like school.
Yeah.
I do think that there's going to be a change to that structure. We decided to. My daughter was supposed to go to kindergarten. We decided not to put her in kindergarten this year. I think it was going to be a massive movement for there to be more homeschooling. I think there's going to be more like group homeschooling where it's 10 kids and two teachers and all of the parents chip in, all 10 of them to pay the teacher salaries. Right. And it would be less than property taxes. It'll be less than it costs to educate somebody in the public school system. But I'm not sitting there judging all the. I'm not judging that my daughter is going to miss recess. Pe. That's her journey. That is her stuff. And she gets to decide what she likes and keeps from that. I don't try to maintain the system.
That's good.
Pass it on to my kids.
I've got a five year old and a seven year old and just last year we kind of reached that promised land of like, both my kids are in school full time all day. And then when all the COVID stuff hit, we decided, well, you know, we obviously had them at home, but when we had them at home all day, every day, we kind of realized, you know, this is actually kind of nice having us all together all the time. I mean, there are times where it gets a little annoying and the house is really noisy and there's messes everywhere. But for the most part, we really enjoy it. So we actually made the decision to pull them out of public school and do homeschool ourselves now. And I think kind of where Joe was going a little bit, I think with the conversation was more of the way the education system currently is as a sort of factory line for producing employees. Right. I think that's a little bit where my concern lies is when it comes to the education system. They're kind of going through this process of learning things that some of it they're excited about. Like my kids, they love the science type stuff. They love recess and PE and that kind of stuff. But then they're not quite as into history or that kind of stuff. And I really believe you figure out what types of stuff they're excited about and just lean into that kind of stuff more. Like, still teach them the other fundamentals of the other things, but lean into the shit that they really light up about. And that was sort of our decision making process behind. Okay, let's do the homeschool thing. A, Everything's gonna be screwed up next year with COVID anyway. So it's like we're either gonna have a screwed up situation at public school or we're gonna have a situation that's a little bit more in our control with homeschool. But at the same time, we also get to sort of lean into the stuff that excites them more. Like, my daughter loves art. She loves painting and drawing and very artsy, artsy type stuff. Right. So, like, we're leaning into that. She's doing a whole bunch of art classes and that sort of thing. My son, he's in kindergarten. He doesn't know what he wants yet, but.
But that's what you want. Five year old.
Just tell me what you want. I should have life figured out.
If you ask him, it's playing Minecraft and watching cartoons. That's what he wants.
So I'm telling you, like, that model is gonna be very normal. It is like, even school is gonna have to go micro in order to survive.
Everything. Yeah.
Because everything is accessible. Everything is furry at this point. And so we have basically unlimited creativity and freedom. And that's only going to go up. And so it's going to have to go more and more micro.
Yeah.
We're entering a new phase in which big structures cannot exist. They simply can't.
All right. I just realized it's already. We're at time right now. This conversation is too damn good. I want to keep going. But how can people get your book and learn more about.
My book is called 12 months to 1 million. You can get it on Amazon unless you want to do a bulk order. In that case, I'm capitalism.com book. Probably the best place to follow me is my podcast, which is called capitalism.com or I'm Ryandaniel Moran on Instagram and YouTube.
Bam. Thank you, my friend. This is amazing.
This was fun. Please have me back. This was really fun.
We will definitely.
And that's on recording. So now everybody knows. Now we gotta remind everybody.
Write that down, Sue.
Write it down.
Sue. Ryan's coming back.
All right, my man. Go have a great one.
Thanks. For having me, guys.
Thank you.
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