EP #5 Becoming the First Black Female Space Pilot w/ Dr. Sian Proctor

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Think about a full moon rising and when you step outside and you see that full moon and you're being bathed in moonlight, how it makes you feel. I mean we have love songs and myth and you know, and poetry and you know all of these things about being moonstruck by moonlight and the earth is a thousand times more beautiful, more brilliant than moonlight and a massive transformed.

Earth purpose is what you're telling the world. It's like this is who I am, this is what I'm going to do. This is the dent I'm going to make in the universe. Welcome to the Mindsets and Moonshots podcast. Today I am very excited to be welcoming a friend, an astronaut, a scientist, an incredible woman, Dr. Cyan Proctor. She's a geoscientist, a science communicator, an artist, an entrepreneur and a commercial astronaut. Dr. Proctor made history last year when she became the first African American woman to pilot a spacecraft. I was actually at her launch and it was awesome. As pilot of Inspiration4, she is the first pilot of an all civilian mission as well to take orbit around the earth on a Falcon 9 operated by SpaceX. Her motto is called Space to Inspire where she encourages people to use their unique, one of a kind strengths and passion to inspire those within their reach and beyond, which she most certainly has done. She's also one of The Explorers Club's 50 people changing the world A lot more bio that we'll get into. Cyan, it's a pleasure to have you here. Thank you.

Thanks for having me Peter.

Yeah, no, I remember being at your launch and just it was an awe inspiring not just for the mission itself but for how the mission came together. What each member of this mission of four outstanding individuals represented and we've got a lot to talk about. We're here to inspire people. We're here to talk about the mindsets that got you to space and some about your moonshot. So you know, let's just begin with a little bit about you if you don't mind. Tell us about you young Cyan growing up. Where'd you grow up? How did you get interested in Space. When did that space interest begin? What were the seeds planted there?

Well, Peter, I have been chasing space literally my entire life. I was born on the island of Guam because my dad was working at the NASA tracking station during the Apollo missions. So my family was on Guam from 1966 to 1970. So they were there for the Apollo 11 moon landing. And I was born eight and a half months after Neil Armstrong took those famous first steps. So I am a moon celebration, baby. You know, and my. My family, we. My dad left working in the space industry a few months after I was born, and we moved to Minnesota, and my life in snow began. But I grew up with NASA memorabilia on my dad's office wall, including this autograph from Neil Armstrong that my dad got. Because after the Apollo 11 astronauts returned home, they did a worldwide tour of all the tracking stations that helped with that. When Neil Armstrong came, my dad was there and thanked my dad for all his help. And that became a family heirloom. And so I was inspired as a young kid. I mean, I loved aviation and airplanes, particularly military aircraft. And so I was watching shows like Baa, Baa, Black Sheep, and building, you know, model airplanes. And I was in the Civil Air Patrol, and I saw my ticket to the stars through the military. And, you know, you. You go to the Air Force Academy, you become an F16 fighter pilot, and then you become the shuttle pilot. Right? How hard could that be? But, you know, like a lot of us who have that dream of one day being an astronaut, it slips away while we're, you know, moving towards adulthood. And so for me, I got glasses when I was about 15. And back then, you could not be a military aviator if you didn't have 2020 vision. So I was just like, well, I'm never going to go to the Air Force Academy. I'm never going to fly, so I'll never be an astronaut. That was the narrative in my head. I went off and I became a geoscientist. I got my undergrad in environmental science. I got my master's in geology, and I got my PhD in science education. And I began teaching at the local community college in Phoenix, Arizona, because I went to Arizona State University, and I was traveling around the world and doing outreach and geoscience and all of those things. And then one day, everything changed when somebody said, hey, NASA's looking for astronauts. You should apply.

Well, and we're going to go deep in there. Hey, thanks for listening to Moonshots and Mindsets. I want to take a second and tell you about A company that I love. It's called Levels, and it helps me be responsible for the food that I eat, what I bring into my body. See, we were never designed as humans to eat as much sugar as we do. And sugar is not good for your brain or your heart or your body in general. Levels helps me monitor the impact of the foods that I eat by monitoring my blood sugar. For example, I learned that if I dip my bread in olive oil, it blunts my glycemic response, which is good for my health. If you're interested, learn more by going to Levels. Level. Link Backslash. Peter Levels will give you an extra two months of membership. It's something that is critical for the future of your longevity. All right, let's get back to the conversation in the episode, but let's take it back to your childhood, because a lot of, a lot of people, a lot of kids either have a environment of growing up that is filled with inspiration or they don't. And I know, I mean, it's interesting, right? My, my world was. My dad was a doctor and there was medical memorabilia all around. It was sort of expected to become a doctor, but it was the Apollo Program in Star Trek that lit my fuse and I sort of split my, my loyalty between my family and the higher calling of space. How was there any pressure from your family to go into aviation or space? Was that, was that self induced along the way?

You know, what's interesting is neither of my parents had college degrees. And so. But my dad was, you know, like a hidden figure. He was good at math. He was able to, you know, bootstrap his way into NASA and help contribute and all of those things. So from both of my parents, they saw, particularly my father, education as the way to opportunity. And so my dad was very keen on me and my siblings going to college and getting a degree in stem, science, technology, engineering and math. You know, anything else, you know, the arts or something, or business. My dad was like, no, you need to get a STEM degree. And so luckily I was always out curious about the world. My dad encouraged me to be an explorer. He supported my love of aviation because my parents were like, we don't know where you want to be a fighter pilot. We don't know where this came from, but we're going to support that. And they never. What I give my parents credit for, particularly my dad, is that he never told me I couldn't do it. I mean, back in the 70s and 80s, there were no female fighter pilots. It wasn't allowed in the United States it wasn't until the 90s that women could fly fighter jets in combat and do all of these other kinds of things. And there were no black female astronauts. And my dad never said, hey, by the way, do you know that there's no black female astronauts, no role models out there. But I had like you, Star Trek Lieutenant o' Hara, and I saw her, Nichelle Nichols and I was like, wow, I can be her. I can trek across the universe boldly. Go, you know?

Yes.

And, and my dad watched Star Trek with me. We watched every episode of the Next Generation together. And he just supported my love of being an explorer and, and wanting to try new things. But he did, he did worry that I would never like go down the rabbit hole. Rabbit hole and become, you know, a master of something. And I do know that.

Interesting. Yeah, let's take a second. Just to the parents out there, list to those parents to inspire their kids, you know, because it's tricky. If you push your kids too hard, they can rebel. And. But is, is the piece of advice you're saying to support their native dreams and not tell them that something's impossible. Is there anything else you want to add to those, those parents?

No, I definitely think that it is about letting your, your kid, your child just have that imagination and, and, and believe that they can do whatever it is that they want to do. And a great example of this is, you know, I am running around, I'm a tomboy, I'm playing in the woods and I, and it's early 80s and the movie Rambo comes out and I'm like, oh my goodness, dad, I want a rainbow knife. My dad did not even hesitate. He bought me this Rambo knife. And now if you all know Rambo, this is like a 12 inch knife with a compass on the end, you know, and here am a 10 year old running around the woods with this giant knife. But my dad was like, you know, if this is something that you're interested in, we will try to figure it out and do it safely, hopefully, but figure out these curiosities. And I love that my mom was a little bit more cautious. She kind of wanted me to wear the dresses and I wanted to play ice hockey on the pond with the other kids and I had to do it in figure skates versus hockey skates. But so there was some compromise there.

And let's take the other side of the equation for kids who are in high school or early college and their parents don't understand their passion and how do you advise them? Because a lot of us. And I went to medical school to make my parents happy. I'm happy I did. But that was the drive. It wasn't because it was inherently what I wanted to do at the time. What's your advice to young adults who are sort of at odds with what their parents want them to do?

You know, and that's really tricky because you want to, you know, fulfill those. Those wishes of your parents. And, you know, I was the same way with my dad wanting me to become a scientist. And I think the thing is that it's not easy, but there are allies out there for you to find people who are passionate about the things that you love to do. And it was a compromise with my dad. I was really into movies and acting and theater. And I remember when I told him, well, I don't want to go off to California and become an actress, and he was like, yeah, that's not happening. But on the other hand, he supported me by doing theater. And, you know, he's like, if you go off to college and you get a degree in science, you can take all of these electives that are in theater and stuff, and you can still find that community and be a part of it. And so a lot of times we have to straddle two loves or two communities. And the thing is, society expects us to pick and say, you need to be this and put labels on stuff. But humans are conglomerates. We have lots of different interests and we have lots of different passions, and you can have that. You just got to be able to understand how to better time, manage your interests and your loves. And I think that we don't put enough emphasis for young adults on how to successfully manage your energy. Right. And how you apply your mental and physical and emotional energy in different areas in a very healthy way.

I love that. Let's move forward now. So you've got this spark for science and space and aviation. When did it transition from a general passion to a purpose for you? When did it. When did that. That inflection point occur and then connect that point to your being an orbiter on the Earth? Because that's a beautiful journey.

Well, you know, when I went to grad school, I didn't know what I wanted to do. Like a lot of people. My dad passed away when I was 19, and he was a big point of inspiration for me. And I was lost during my undergrad. I was just kind of going through the mot, and when I graduated, I didn't know what I wanted to do. I had a degree in environmental Science. And I moved back home with my mom in upstate New York and I became a video editor for the news because I had done these television production and theater. So I ended up doing the news as an editor. And then one day I woke up and said, I'm going to move out west to marry a cowboy and I'm going to do that by going to grad school. Yep, that's exactly what I told myself. And I applied to grad school and I went to Arizona State University. And I didn't know what I wanted to do. I just said, I'm going to go into hydrology. And then the first week I arrived, they made me a teaching assistant and they gave me my lab manual and my schedule and they said, who are you going to go teach these lab classes? And I was like, I don't even have a degree in geology. Ok, you want me to go into this classroom and teach? And I walked in and immediately I fell in love with teaching. And I knew right then that I wanted to be a college professor and I was going to figure out how to do that.

Let me pause there one second because that's a really fascinating situation. The idea that trying new things, even if you don't know that they're going to be interesting or they're scary or whatever, you didn't actually know, but when you tried fit, yeah, I had no.

Idea what I was doing. And that's one of the reasons why I try to tell young people, even seasoned adults like ourselves, that don't be afraid to try new things. And school is a great way to try things out, to take classes when you don't know what you want to do. Going back to school opens up opportunities for you to explore different things in a relatively low risk environment. Particularly going to like a community college where the cost to take classes and to become part of a community, isn't that as much of a burden? That's why I moved out west and went to grad school. I was like, I got to find myself and I could take these classes, but walking into the classroom, classroom, and it was like lightning striking and I was like, wow, I can do this.

Amazing. I love that. So what happens next?

So I become a college professor and I am loving it. I am traveling around the world as a geoscientist explorer, bringing back things to my classroom. I got my PhD in science education and I got my pilot's license. I got SCUBA certified, you know, just fully invested in exploring our world. And then one day I was 38, turning 39 a friend sent me an email saying, NASA's looking for astronauts. You should apply. And all of a sudden, you know, this childhood dream manifests back to me, and I'm like, you know, the first thing in my head was like, I'm just a college professor in Phoenix, Arizona. They're never going to pick me up. But my curiosity and my nature of exploring, I opened up the link, figured out, wow, I'm actually qualified. NASA was looking for somebody who was highly educated. And you got extra points if you're SCUBA certified, if you had your pilot's license, if you had cultural experience and spoke Russian. The only thing that I didn't have was the Russian. And I got up the courage to apply. The next thing I know, I went through the 2009 selection process all the way down to the yes, no phone call. And so I was on thousands and thousands of people. I ended up one of the 47 finalists that year, and they chose nine people, and it was a no. And you can imagine how devastating that was to get.

What year is this?

This was 2009, and I was 39 years old. And so you can imagine how devastated I was to get so close to that childhood dream and it be a no. And that imposter syndrome voice picked up and said, you know, oh, they found out you're not qualified. You're not good enough. And so I started to change my entire, like, mindset. I said, okay, I will go back to school. And I literally. I enrolled in the University of North Dakota's for a master's in space studies. And then I told myself I would get my advanced scuba, I would get my commercial pilot's license. And I just started really tearing myself inside out to fit what I thought NASA was looking for. And then I stopped and said, what am I doing? I'm driving myself crazy. And instead of seeing that no as a negative, I mentally had to change that to a positive. And I said, you know what? I'm going to celebrate that I was almost a NASA astronaut. And when I did that, I said, look, I was almost a NASA astronaut because of the life I was living. So I'm going to go back to living that life as an explorer and an adventurer. And I dropped all of that, and I went back to my normal life and I became an analog astronaut, somebody who lives in moon and Mars simulations for months at a time. And that's how I moved forward past that.

So I love this. First of all, the voice in your head, the imposter syndrome is very powerful, and it can devastate you. And it's so important to, to recognize that and to, you know, to squelch that. And for people who have that, who have a big dream but they're internal, is saying, oh, you know, you're never going to make it. This is not, you know, you're, you're faking it and so forth. What's any advice for overcoming that? Imposter syndrome?

Yes. You know, I have suffered from imposter syndrome my entire life. It's not something that goes away, but you learn tricks to be able to combat it so that you can move forward in a healthy, productive way. And for me, it's, you know, my dad's voice kind of comes back into play. And, you know, what would my dad say? He would say, don't talk yourself out of opportunity. Let somebody else determine whether or not you're qualified. You know, go for it. You know, put your name out there. And so a lot of times when that voice creeps in, you know, I take a pause and, and I have this conversation with it, like, okay, where's this coming from? Because, Norm, most of the time it's fear based. You know, you don't want to get hurt in some way. You don't, you know, you're worried about the risk that's involved. But when you start to rationalize what the risk is. And for me, with the 2009 astronaut selection process, I told myself, well, what the heck do I have to lose if it's a no in the end, I'm still back where I was before. I'm not losing anything. Even though it was devastating to have that no come and that voice rear up again just to get me to apply, I had to have that conversation. And then once I got that no, that voice reared up again. And I had to, you know, go through that situation of, you know, trying to get out of that rabbit hole because I spiraled down that rabbit hole because of that no. And I clogged my way back out by reframing, you know, the hurt that came from that no into a positive.

So beautiful. Let's continue your journey. So it's 2009. You almost become a NASA astronaut, which isn't heck of an achievement. I don't think people realize your chances. I mean, I did the math when I was in medical school and never applied because it's like, there's just no way. And so I stopped myself right then, but I took that and flipped it into, I'm going to invest my time and energy into driving commercial space to open up and that led to XPRIZE and the other companies. And so you flip that as well. And I just want to give people that sort of Jedi mind trick, if you would.

Yes, yes. The ability to flip. And so once I did that mental jag jog to the left, right, that was needed. Then the next thing that came along was in 2013, there was an announcement that NASA, they were looking for this NASA funded mission to go live in the high seas habitat as the first crew for four months to investigate food strategies for long duration space flight. And I thought, you know, if I can't, you know, be an astronaut out, you know, among the stars, I can at least advance human space flight here on Earth. So I applied and I got selected. And so I was part of the very first crew to live in the high seas habitat. And it was for four months.

This wasn't underwater or on the water.

This was on land on the big island of Hawaii. And it sits about 8,000ft. And it was this new analog site that was funded by money from NASA. Because of that, I fell in love with being an analog astronaut. I lived in the high seas habitat. We lived in Mars Desert Research Station, Lunara's habitat. I was doing these things. Now what's interesting is that by the time 2019 comes along and NASA puts out a call for astronauts again, and now I'm 49 years old and my friends are like, NASA's looking for astronauts again. Are you going to apply? Are you going to apply? And as you become seasoned a little bit older, your chances of becoming selected as a NASA astronaut dwindle, particularly as a female. And I was like, no, I don't think I'm going to make it as a NASA astronaut anymore. But one day, maybe commercial space flight. I never gave up hope. And I was, I would say kind of jokingly like, oh, well, maybe one day, you know, commercial space flight, I will be able to go and achieve this dream. Not realizing it was literally around the corner.

Yes, yes. Not get, you know, there's, there's a great saying and I'm going to butcher it, which is, you know, luck is being prepared and lasting long enough.

It sure is. And you know, and I definitely had that idea of preparation and persistence, you know, along with hope. And so having preparation by, you know, becoming a geoscientist in education and an analog astronaut and just always trying to look for new opportunity to advance myself and then perseverance, you know, when you get the no's, being able to have that grit and determination to move forward.

Yes, Martine Rothblatt, who's a dear friend, you know, Martin.

I love Martine.

Yeah, she's awesome.

We're good. We're friends.

Yeah. And one of her sayings that I love is no. Every no is a step closer to yes.

I have great friends because they always find opportunity and send it my way because they know I will apply.

One of the advantages of letting the world know what your moonshot is, one of the advantages of letting your friends and family know secretly what's in your heart. What you desire more than anything else in the world is you create an army of scouts out there looking for things that can support you. So just, I want everybody to remember.

That I talk to a lot of kids about what I call science of opportunity, how to manifest opportunity. And it is absolutely what you just said. People need to know what you're passionate about so that when that opportunity comes, they think of you. And so for the NASA astronaut selection process, somebody sent it to me. The high seas habitat, somebody sent it to me. And the same with the Inspiration4 mission. It was announced during the super bowl that they were looking for people to be a part of the all civilian mission to orbit. And I don't have a tv, so I didn't watch the Super Bowl. But boy, I can tell you, my friends were on it. They were like, you got to donate to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. You can win a seat to space. And so I looked it up and I was like, oh, okay, there's this generosity seat. And so I donated to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital because Inspiration4's main goal was to do the largest fundraiser in St. Jude's history, which was $200 million raise. And so I donated. But then I was on Twitter and you know, you can. People can love or hate Twitter, but boy, Twitter has opened up magical opportunities for me. And I noticed somebody posted a video about Inspiration4 and I was like, what? And you know, they're talking about the prosperity seat. And I'm like, there's another seat. And so I did some digging and sure enough, there wasn't just one seat, but there was two seats. And if you opened up a shift force shop, which was my commander Jared Isaacman's platform, and created a 2 minute, 20 second Twitter video expressing why they should take you to space, you could win the prosperity seat. And oh boy, there was some imposter syndrome in that. But I. Because during COVID I became a space artist, I decided that I was going to apply for the prosperity seat as an Artist and a poet. And I created an original poem. Yeah, I created an original poem called My Space to Inspire or Space to Inspire. And I read that as my entry as to why they should pick me. And I dropped the poem three days before the contest ended. Now, yeah, keep in mind, part of the contest rules was that you had to go viral. And one of the reasons why I had imposter syndrome was because I looked at who had entered and there were people with like, you know, a half a million followers. There was somebody that had like 5 million YouTube followers who submitted videos. I'm like, oh, my goodness. I only have like 6,000 people following me on Twitter. And. And. But I put it on, and in three days, boy, I rallied Twitter and I got 70,000 views in three days. And that was enough to get on the judge's radar. And then I won the prosperity seat.

How many. How many Twitter followers do you have now?

I have. Oh, good question. About 70,000 Twitter followers.

All right, so a 10x. That's great. So an amazing story. I love the fact that your friends and your community were the ones who sort of like came in and re inspired you to go after that. It's beautiful. And the fact that you didn't go as a science educator, you didn't go as a scientist, you went in the realm of a poet and an artist. Completely different from what you had spent 20 years. And that's just continuous growth is awesome. What was the inspiration for mission? You want to just talk a little about the frame of that And Jared.

Yes. So my commander, Jared Isaacman, amazing human being, he's an adventurer. And whenever he does something that's unique and inspiring, he always attaches a charity to it. When he decided that he was going to do this all civilian mission to orbit, him and his team were really thoughtful about how to put it together. And so they came up with this idea of four pillars, because there's four seats on a dragon capsule. And so the four pillars are in leadership. And he took the leadership pillar as the commander. And then the choice of charity is St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. And he had the foresight to say, I want to fly a childhood cancer survivor to space. And we're going to call that the hope seat. So what more does a child need who is going through battling cancer than hope, hope, Hope for a better tomorrow. That's how they found my crew member, Hayley Arseneault, childhood cancer survivor at the age of 10 and loved St. Jude so much, she went on to become a physician assistant at St. Jude. So she works there right now helping kids get through their cancer. She got the hope seat. And then the other two were the giveaway seats, the generosity seats, where if you donated to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, your name could literally be pulled out of a hat. And then the prosperity seat, where if you showed your entrepreneurial spirit and created that video expressing why they should choose you, you could win that seat. And the four of us came together in March of 2021. At the end, we announced, at the end of March 2021, we announced to the world that we were a crew and that we were going to space, literally, not about six months later.

Incredible. That was just one of the most extraordinary missions, by the way. I did put in a large amount of donations as well for that generosity seat. But for people who don't know, St. Jude's is an extraordinary philanthropy other than XPRIZE and First Robotics. It's the philanthropy I, my family support the most. It goes to supporting the health care and treatment of children who've got cancer, who can't afford it. And what makes St. Jude so special is when you, when you go there as a patient, you never get billed. It's all for free.

And you know what?

Yeah, please.

I asked Jared once, you know, why, you know why St. Jude, and you know, and he was saying how? Well, you know, he was debating between him and his team, make a wish in St. Jude and make a wishes for kids who are, you know, have been diagnosed with, you know, they're at the end stage of their cancer. And this is what I love about Jared, is that he just is so thoughtful. And he thought to himself, well, if I can help end childhood cancer, then we don't need make a wish. And he said, let's end childhood cancer. And so he decided that he was going to put all of his effort toward that. And I just think how thoughtful that is because he could have just taken his friends, you know, he could have bought out the Dragon capsule and said, I'm going to fly my friends to space. But instead he said, this is a first. We're going to do it right. And this is how I want to set up this legacy.

Yeah, I've known Jared for 20 years. I knew him when he was flying a Mustang around the world a little, you know, four seat aircraft. And he's brilliant. He's a sweetheart man, just a beautiful soul and very successful in the financial world, which gave him his capital. And he actually bought this mission. He paid for the entire private mission to orbit, and then Gave away the seats. You're right. He could have given to his friends. He could have sold the seats. He could have done anything. But no, he. In service of humanity, huge heart. Let's talk about the mission. When did it launch? How long were you up there? What was it like?

Well, I gotta tell you, the day I found out that I won my seat, which was March 7, I'm going to be celebrating that every year for the rest of my life. Jared, you know, I got on a zoom. I didn't know. And it was Jared and his. The mission director kid were on there. And I'm like, hi, Jared. And he's like, you know, and Jared doesn't beat around the bush. He's like, yeah, I want to let you know that we picked a winner, and it's you. And, you know, that's the Willy Wonka moment. You're like, oh, my God. What? And then the next thing out of Jared's mouth was basically, and I think you should be my mission pilot. And I'm like, say what? I'm like, wait, wait, what? And it was this kind of like, lightning strike twice moment where not only was I going to be an astronaut, but I was also now going to be the pilot of the spacecraft. You know, those two dreams as a kid of being a pilot and an astronaut coming true in one stroke. And so the next six months I spent training. And then on September 15th, we launched into orbit for three days.

Amazing. Amazing. How would it feel? Like, what was the ride on the Falcon 9 in Dragon like? Was it smooth? Was it rough?

No, it was smooth. You know, and I was expecting, like, kind of what you see in the movies where they're, you know, kind of being jostled around a lot. But, you know, Jared and I both had a task. You know, as a mission pilot, I was laser focused on my screens and making sure that the flight computer was doing what it was supposed to be doing and just giving Jarrett situational awareness just in case something went wrong. And I don't, you know, the screen wasn't shaking. I had no problems with, like, you know, that ride. But a lot of times people asking me, like, well, what did it feel like? I'm like, well, I was so focused, you know, I was. Because I wanted to make sure that I did my job, and I did it well, particularly as a black female in a first. You know, you want to make sure that you keep that door open for those to follow behind you. But I can tell you, the re entry back to Earth, man, that was a Ride because going up was pretty smooth. Nothing went wrong. Everything just happened. Just like we were trained in the simulator, we actually joked because when we were going to simulator training, which was very intense 99% of the time, we never did a normal one. There were always alerts and things going wrong because they wanted to make sure that we could be trained on any scenario. And the SpaceX team that's supporting us could also be trained for any scenario. So we do these simulations that are like in real time and neither the crew nor the mission control know whether or not there are going to be alerts going off. And so we, you know, we were always dealing with alerts. So to have one go, you know, go our actual mission, lift off and go and make it to orbit with nothing going wrong, we're like, wow, this is great. You know, but re entry back into down to Earth was, wow, that is intense because you hit that, you hit the atmosphere like a bullet and you're used to being weightless. And I remember we got to about 0.3 GS and hairly goes, oh, what is this? As we felt the pressure on our chest because that elephant starting to sit down on us and snuggle in. And by the time we got to a sustained six GS, you know, your pressure breathing, you're going to, okay, this is cool.

Six GS, six times the gravity of Earth on you.

Yes.

It's like having a 600 pound person on your chest.

It is. And we were trained for it. Everything about that experience was magical and amazing. And I'm so filled with gratitude.

I'm so thankful that you went because it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful model for giving others hope for their dreams. Right? It's, that's, it's everything I want. I don't want to spend too much more time on this. But I have to ask you, your top three moments in orbit and what was it like to be in the cupola? And what was the cupola there, which I was excited about.

You know, my top three moments are. Well, it's definitely getting to the point where we were strapped in and ready to go. And I remember, you know, when we get down because a mission can get scrubbed and a lot of times they do because of just various reasons and you're strapped in and you're so excited and everybody's watching and it's counting down and you get to 10 minutes and you're like, I think we're going to do this, you know, and then you get to two minutes. And you're like, oh, right, we're going to do this. And I was. People asked me was I ever afraid? And I told them no, because I, I was afraid that something would go wrong before I got the opportunity to go to space. You know, it was Covid, we couldn't get Covid. We, I mean, SpaceX literally said, you get sick during quarantine or Covid, we'll fly sandbag in your spot. Like, oh my God, the fly the sandbag and you can't get hurt. And you have to qualify for the seat. Even though I won it. SpaceX was like, yeah, you won your seat, but you got to qualify. If you don't qualify for the mission pilot seat, we're not going to send you. You know, so there's all these stressors that you have to get through. And then by the time we got down to that, you know, three, two, one. I was so happy it was actually going to happen. Yes. That we were lifting off. So that was one of my most joyous moments. And then when we opened up the Ford hatch to the cupola, and we'll talk about that in a minute, what that is, that was just the most beautiful, magical moment and absolute, that's my absolute favorite moment of the entire space flight. And then splashing down, splashing down was my Phoenix Rising moment, my becoming moment. It was like, I did it. You can't take it away from me. You know, like, that's beautiful. Just so happy that the hero's journey was, was complete. It was.

Yeah. So most human SpaceX missions have been going to the space station, go to orbit, you dock with the space station and you go and you're inside the space station. And this one was different. And you had an added benefit of a large viewing port called the cupola. So explain that, please.

Yeah, you know, I love SpaceX because they said, yeah, you're not docking to the International Space Station. We did what was called a free flyer mission. And they said, you know, since you're not docking, how would you like, you know, a giant window at, you know, where you would normally dock to the International Space Station, under the nose cone through what's called the forward hatch. And of course we're like, yes, please create this giant window. And I got to give them credit because in a very short amount of time they created and space rated the cupola, which is a giant dome window. So it's dome shaped and nothing but a viewing portal, so you can slide up into it and have this amazing view of our planet. And to give you some context, there's no orientation in space, so there's no up or down or anything. But our spacecraft was pointed down at the Earth. So when you went up in, the cupola sits at the top of our spacecraft. So the cupola, the window was pointed down at our planet. But for me, because I was looking down, that was up to me. So the Earth was above me when I would slide into the cupola. I just remember us opening the Ford hatch and we just got flooded with Earth light, the reflected light from our beautiful, gorgeous planet. And when we slid up there for the first time, I was one of the first people to go up there because I had to do this task. And I was just like, oh, my goodness, this is amazing. You could see the entire circumference, the sphere of the Earth. Because of the size of the window we were in and how high up we were, none of us expected that.

Arguably, you had a much better view of the Earth than anyone on the space station did.

Yes, because we were higher.

Yeah. And also the largest volume of the cupola allowed you to not just put your face up against a flat window. So you probably have the best view of any space astronaut other than those who went on a spacewalk. That's awesome.

That's absolutely true. And I wasn't, when we talk about the Overview Effect, what I wasn't prepared for, even though I'm a geoscientist and I know that the Earth has a high reflection activity, I was not prepared for Earth light. Oh, my goodness. Wow.

There was a book written, a book written in the 1980s. Again, someone who I knew well, Frank White, who wrote a book called the Overview Effect. And Frank had gone and interviewed astronauts who'd been to space. And the commonality, independent, if you were back then a Soviet cosmonaut or a European spacionaut or a US astronaut, it was seeing the Earth without borders. It was Spaceship Earth. It was a beautiful sort of psychological impact that one had. So that's what is called the overview effect. And it's still persistent. Yeah.

And I just want to say that I think, you know, a big component of the overview effect, why we have trouble reproducing that here on Earth. When we show somebody a photo from that same vantage point of our beautiful planet, they don't get that same sense. And I believe it's because of Earth light. And the reason why, if you think about moonlight, think about a full moon rising, and when you step outside and you see that full moon and you're being bathed in moonlight, how it makes you feel. I mean, we have love songs and myth and, you know, and poetry and, you know, all of these things about being moonstruck by moving moonlight and the earth is 1,000 times more beautiful, more brilliant than moonlight. And when I was up there floating in the cupola and being bathed in moonlight, I mean in earth light, it was transformative. And I think that there's a key there, just the way, you know, that reflected light impacts you and the psychology of that experience.

That's, that's gorgeous. Hey everybody. I hope you're enjoying this episode. Let's tell you about something I've been doing for years. Every quarter or so, having a phlebotomist come to my home to draw bloods, to understand what's going on inside my body. And it was a challenge to get all the right blood draws and all the right tests done. So I ended up co founding a company that sends a phlebotomist to my home to measure 40 different biomarkers every, every quarter, put them up on a dashboard so I can see what's in range, what's out of range, and then get the right supplements, medicines, peptides, hormones to optimize my health. It's something that I want for all my friends and family and I'd love it for you. If you're Interested, go to mylifeforest.com Peter to learn more. Let's get back to the episode. I want to bring us back to our mindsets. How do you define the difference between a passion and a purpose? Cyan.

You know, I think when it comes to your something that you're passionate about, it's something that you enjoy doing, but it's not something that you're, you have an innate drive to have to fulfill. And I think purpose, when you find your purpose, there is something that is deeper, that is calling you to continuously come back to this right that you're like, no, no, you know, because there's a lot of things that can distract you. There's a lot of, especially when it comes to passions. As you learn new things and meet different people, you can have these passions that, that pop up. But purpose is persistent, purpose is driven. And when you know, and a lot of times when we talk about finding our purpose and it was funny because the reason why I chose and you can have purpose, I think for different stages of your life. I believe when I walked into the classroom and I became as a ta, I found purpose as a teacher and I followed that for 20 plus years, educating people about Geology, and so sustainability. But when I. In 2020, during lockdown, when I became an artist and a poet, I found my authentic voice, and I found a new form of purpose. And that is one of the reasons why I chose actively to apply for the prosperity seat as an artist and a poet, because it wasn't definitely not the sure bet, you know, especially since I was only an artist and a poet for a year.

Interesting. Yeah, but that's. That that level of authenticity is a really powerful message here, because you could have tried to fake it as a scientist or would some other field that had a higher probability. Because I agree, applying for. For that seat on the Inspiration4 mission as a artist and a poet, where you've been that for just a short period of time would have been a much riskier bet. But it was authentically you.

It was absolutely authentically me. You know, at 50, I found my voice. I was labeled early as not a good writer, you know, and that. And that has kind of been a psychological barrier. And. And then, you know, and, you know, as kids, you get tracked as, you know, your stem or your art. And, you know, and so early on, I got tracked to the stem side, but I was always looking at the people at the art side and just thinking, oh, I have no talent. I'm not. I can't do art. I'm not an artist. I can't do any of that. And you get these labels that you put on yourself. And then being in Covid, we found ourselves in a very stressful situation. Living at home. I was going through, my marriage was breaking up, and, you know, there was all this uncertainty, and some people turned to baking and others to cooking and others to, you know, musical instruments and stuff. And I decided that, you know, I wanted to spread joy to people. And I was sending out postcards of scientists, and somebody said, well, where's your postcard? I want to see your original art. And I said, in my head, I'm like, I'm not an artist. And then I thought, or am I? And so I started off easy with collage art because I was like, well, I can't paint or draw. I will cut things out and. And stick them together and make pretty things. And I did, and people loved it. So then I thought, oh, well, maybe I can paint. And so then I started painting, and then I started doing, you know, line drawings. And as I did that and shared. Shared this with the people around me and got feedback and love and support. That's what, you know, and my art goes with poetry. When I Do a piece. I wrote a poem. Write a poem about it. And that just fueled me. And I was like, this is the happiest I've ever been. I got into flow when I did art. I reached flow states where hours would just pass and I'd just be so happy and just, just within at the moment and. And I've just loved it ever since.

So when you're, when you're guiding someone to find their purpose, one hint then, first of all, what we just summarized is like, is it authentic for you?

Yes.

And the second thing is, you know, do hours pass? Are you in flow? Is it joyous and effortless? Those are the hints that you found your purpose.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, I found myself just. And I wasn't creating art and poetry for others. I was creating for myself. I was finding so much joy in the exploration. When we talk about being explorers, we often talk about exploration for humanity, discovering something new for humanity, but exploration is really personal. It's about discovering something new for yourself. And I was in such joy at the explorative process of learning about art and poetry and then being able to express things that I couldn't say for 20 years as a black female, feeling, you know, that I couldn't, you know, express myself properly for fear of lash back and rejection and all of these things. And then I could. But I could express that through art and poetry. So it was this new kind of like breath of fresh air to let out all of these things that I've been thinking about in this new creative way.

I want to hit on something that you said earlier and talk about a curiosity mindset for a moment. I want to go back to the conversation around you entering the classroom as a TA and heading towards a professorship and discovering that purpose that you would not have otherwise discovered had you not been thrust into. Into that situation. And then discovering your passion turned purpose in art because of the COVID lockdown. I want to hear your thoughts around having a curiosity mindset and how that curiosity mindset can lead towards discovery of purpose.

Oh, I believe that wholeheartedly. When you have a curiosity mindset, what it does is it enables you to get past the fear. The curiosity overcomes the. No, I can't do this. Because those examples are when they handed me that lab book and my schedule and said, yeah, you're going to go teach. And I didn't even have a degree in geology. I'm like, wait, I only took one class in geology. And I was like, okay, okay. But I was curious enough and to Be able to go and say, okay, I'm going to figure this out. Because curiosity is about figuring out things that are happening around you or things or challenges that you have to take on. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to figure this out. And then when it came to, you know, but that's. That's a situation I was thrust into. And to some extent, I also put myself in the position to be thrust into that by applying to grad school and wanting to be the funding to be able to afford it and all of those things. And then, Covid, Covid, none of us had this choice, but you had to figure out what is your coping mechanism. And opening up that again, that curiosity box and saying, okay, let's try something new here. What am I feeling? What's calling me? And being able to embrace that and move forward with that curiosity. And a lot of people, it's like Alice in Wonderland. A lot of people like, well, why would you go down the rabbit hole? Or Neo, are you going to take the red pill pill or the blue pill? You know, and a lot of us have that safety mechanism of that fear of change or the unknown. But, boy, curiosity has opened up so many doors for me. Go down the rabbit hole.

I love that. I love that message. You know, the opposite, just to structure it is. If you don't embrace your curiosity mindset, if you don't take risk, what's the result of that?

Oh, you know, I think you end up with a lot of sadness and regret. And I've seen it, you know, particularly as you get older and you see friends or family members who, you know, may be suffering in some ways with depression and kind of that loss. You know, they retire after a career that's been, you know, doing kind of the same thing for 30 years, and they have this kind of like, loss because you say, well, what are you going to do in retirement? And they're just kind of like, well, I don't know. Because along the way, that childhood curiosity of diving in has kind of been faded or beaten out of them, and their ability to imagine possibilities are no longer there. And it just makes me so sad when I see that. And that's why, you know, you try to get kids to invest in lifelong learning, and that curiosity never ends. You know, it's from. It's from cradle to grave.

Yeah, I. Let's. Let me put an exclamation point on that. You know, the curiosity mindset is valid through the entirety of your life. And it, I think, is tied to being Alive. If you stop being curious, if you stop asking why, if you stop trying new things. Things, if you stop growing, then it's a message. The universe to stop life.

Yeah. You know, I. And our world is so amazing in so many ways.

Amen. Yes. People, wake up. This is the most extraordinary time ever to be alive.

It is. I mean, it is a. It is literally a Willy Wonka. Our starship Earth is a. A magical experience all around you and every single day. And, you know, and again, I just can't express enough to anybody that's listening that exploration and curiosity doesn't have to be for others. It's for you and your own discovery and your own joy.

I had a conversation with another great, amazing writer and podcaster, Tim Urban, who he said, you know, taking risk is. Is critical for finding your purpose, right? And he said beautifully here, where passions come and go, they take you in different directions, but when you find your purpose, you lock in. And if you're not exploring and you're stuck in the experiences you have, then how could you possibly find something else, right? So it's the. It's that curiosity that says, let me try that and try that and try that, and it's interesting, right? You might never. You think you know what you want to do, but you're locked into the experiences you have until you try a multitude. And then, oh, my God, this is really fun. I never thought of myself as a teacher or an artist or an astronaut, which you have for many years, but that's awesome.

Well, I gotta say, you know, one of the things that we don't talk about, too, when we're willing to take risk and opportunity is the ripple effect, because talk about that. Boy, I tell you, I am blown away by how I will take that risk and I will try something new. And as a result, it creates this new ripple of opportunity that I never would have imagined. It opens up new. I meet new people, and as a result of meeting new people, I find out about new things. And then when I find out about new things, I get new opportunities. And suddenly I am just like, in this whole new realm. And you're just like, wow, how did I get here? But there are the breadcrumbs, and each those breadcrumbs, it's literally like throwing a rock into a pond, except for you throwing it out to the universe. And there literally is a vibration of ripple impact that goes out and pops up. All of these new opportunities as a result of that first, you know, step into exploration and, you know, curiosity and doing something New.

Yeah, that's. That's beautifully put. Do you have a way of describing your purpose today?

Yes. You know, tell me, what is that? I. I've been a. A geoscientist. I've been in love with our planet, you know, my entire life. I love looking at maps as a kid and trying to figure out where I am and, you know, just exploring the skies above and the ocean below and. And the land and. And. But I'm very passionate about how we come together and create, you know, what I call a Jedi space. Just equitable, diverse, and inclusive. Inclusive space for all of humanity. And when I think about what unites us, because I have this social idea of a Jedi space. But then as a scientist looking at climate change and some of the wicked problems that we have, and how do I unite us, and how do I take this experience of seeing our planet from this perspective? And then I decided that, you know, we're united under one sky and one by one ocean. So I'm starting a nonprofit called One Sky, One Ocean. And it's to bring awareness and build community around that idea that we are connected by what we're doing when we look out to the stars and what we're doing and how we're solved as solving for space also solves for Earth. And then when we're thinking about solving for Earth, the number one thing is that we live on a water world, and our oceans are precious, and our hydrologic cycle is the engine that drives pretty much everything on our planet. And so I want to bring that message to the world.

Yes. And let me just. I want to slow it down. For folks, Jedi space is just equitable, diverse, and inclusive. And it's, you know, that is you in so many ways. It is. It is beautiful. And.

Peter.

Yeah?

Can I read my poem, my winning poem?

I would love to. I was. I was going to leave that for the end, but we're close to it, so. Yes, I would love to hear your poem and then want to hear where people can go to follow you on. On Twitter and get involved in what you're up to? Yes, please. I would love to. I'd be grateful for it.

This poem won me my seat to space. And I got to tell you, I was mulling over, like, what am I going to do for my video to win the prosperity seat? And then in the middle of the night, it just kind of hit me that I wanted to write this poem, and it just flowed out of me, and it's called Space to inspire. You've got space. I'VE got space. We all have space to inspire. That's why we dream of going higher and higher. But what is space if you can't breathe? Let's stop sucking out the air of our humanity. We have a moment to seize the light Earth from space both day and night. We have J for justice to ignite the bold. We have E for equity to cut past the old. We have D for diversity to end the fight we have I for inclusion to try to make it right. A Jedi space to rally behind A universal force so big it binds Inspiration to change the world. A new beginning for us to hold. It's not about you, it's not about me. It's about space to inspire for all of humanity. Science, technology, engineering and math. Sending us out on the explorer's path. But don't forget the arts, the heartbeat of time. Consider sending a poet who knows how to rhyme. So let us drop the mic and close the capsule door, but please make sure Dr. Proctor's on board. My space to inspire is what we need inspiration for. For all of humanity.

It's beautiful.

Thank you.

Thank you for that. And when it's right, it's right. And when it flows and it's right, it flows out of you, it's effortless. Right. You're absolutely in flow and it's effortless and so beautiful. I love the. The path. It's. It really is because I. I love the writings of Joseph Campbell. And it's a hero's journey. Facing your own fears and taking your own path against the odds, which makes it that much more exciting for everybody to follow. If you were going to say you've had a moonshot and that you will have other moonshots in your life, I want to ask you about that. And then we're going to close out. I'm going to be asking you, you. If you were going to have the ability to define an X Prize, that it was going to be funded, you know, a goal that the world should try and achieve. A measurable goal. I'm going to come back to that in a minute. Just giving you a little bit of advanced warning. But your past moonshot. How would you define your last moonshot that you took? And where do you want to go next?

You know, becoming an astronaut.

Itself.

It's a moonshot. And, you know, it was one of those things where I felt driven. You know, like I said, I was chasing space my entire life. And to help manifest that into our reality and to do it in a way that I never would have imagined as A kid, it makes it so special. And what I want people to know is that don't give up hope. You have these childhood dreams, don't give up hope. Even as a seasoned individual, don't give up hope because live that life all the way, way to the end because you just don't know when that moonshot is going to be there for you to literally grab, hold up, and you guide it, just keep moving forward towards that.

So if I could just, just again put an exclamation point on that. The things that would have had to have to come together to enable your mission. Right. Elon Musk building SpaceX and the Falcon 9 and the Dragon capsule and getting that human qualified and going to orbit and then offering it. Jared Isaacman being successful in his business and then having a heart of gold to open up and make seats available. Those two things were prerequisites in one sense. And your passion, inspiration, and your friend or friends telling you about the inspiration for a mission and that coming together. So you're being persistent on this dream. And all those other things coming together led to that moonshot's fulfillment. But if you had given up like most people probably would have. Right. I'm getting too old. The background, the voice in your head, you have no idea the conspiracy of good stuff going on in the world coming together to enable your moonshot.

Oh, that's so true. You know, and that's why I've always been looking, you know, I've always been looking for these opportunities for that reason. And I think that that's one of the reasons why, you know, when we talk about that curiosity, mindset and putting yourself out there and letting people know about your passions, you know, it's about being an active participant in our world in a good, good way, you know, and, and because good things come from that.

Yeah. Beautiful. Is there a moonshot? You're heading towards something big and bold that you're, you know, scares you a little bit, but is worth dedicating the next decade to.

Oh, yeah, what is that? Well, it's. It's absolutely this idea of getting people to embrace a Jedi space. Just equitable, diverse and inclusive space. You know, we're writing the narrative of human space flight right now. Jared did a great job of exampling, you know, what a Jedi space could look like. But I want people to understand that when I talk about a Jedi space, it's not about outer space, it's about your space. I have two models. One is space to inspire, which is your unique space to inspire those within your. Your reach and beyond. But how do you make that a Jedi space? How do you think about creating a just, equitable, diverse, inclusive space for yourself and those around you? And I feel like that we can do this and this could be measurable, particularly in the space industry. The space industry recently came out with a DEI pledge, diversity inclusion. And. And I was like, whoa, you need to add that J in there. Because if you don't have the just part, you can recruit women and people of color and people with disabilities, but into the workforce, into your company. But if your company isn't just, then they won't stay. You will keep them for a year, maybe two, but the longevity of having them be a part of your organization will disappear because they will not feel like it's a just working environment. And we're talking about things where sexual harassment doesn't occur, and if it does, that there are just ways of dealing with those kinds of things and discrimination and stuff like that, that you have a platform that elevates you and your purpose and that we need that. And as we go to the moon, Mars and beyond, you know, my moonshot would be that we make, you know, that we push the space industry to create a Jedi space, and we can measure that, you know, how many people are we, you know, allowing access to go to space? What are the demographics, you know, when we're talking about people who can afford to do it, you know, and I love the fact that that Blue and Virgin have followed Jared's lead in giving away seats to people or helping people win seats to space people who would not normally get the opportunity.

It's an interesting point to reflect on, is that in the next decade or two, we're going to be moving humanity off the planet Earth irreversibly, and it's going to happen once. And how we move off the planet matters. Yeah, right. So it's the future of humanity's language, laws, ethics, diversity. All of that will. Will be set. You know, if it's one religion and one geologic or one political point of view that goes out and dominates, it'll be that. In other words, if you think about even as we're here in America, in the United States, it was because the European settlers from most of the English UK Empire dominated that we speak English. There was a push back 700 years ago or longer, where China almost dominated sailing the planets. We'd be speaking Mandarin right now. So it's like, who's going to lead the way? And what level of justice and diversity and inclusion do they bring as part of their ethos in that fashion.

Absolutely. And that, to me, is because we haven't had it. That's a moonshot. And if you look at the history of space exploration, it hasn't been a Jedi space. It's been very exclusive, and it's been very competitive. And so it's a heavy haul to make that Star Trek. I love to mix my metaphors, but ajadic space is really about that Star Trek generation.

Yeah. You were recently with me and Anusha Ansari, a dear friend, another fellow female private astronaut. We had our space adventure trip as part of the X Prize, and we were searching for, you know, prizes, you know, X prizes, challenges to solve. And we also spent a night with Rod Roddenberry, the son of Gene Roddenberry, the creator of Star Trek. And we were talking about how inclusive and diverse Star Trek was in the 60s, way out of ahead of the world, and is even more so now. And it's a beautiful thing.

Oh, it really is. And so that's one of the things where I see myself over the next, the rest of my life, talking and pushing for that Jedi space.

Beautiful. So, you know, the X Prize, we look for a large, measurable, objective goal to solve a grand challenge out there. And I know implementing Jedi space is one, but is there an X Prize of something else that you would love if, you know, if I could snap my fingers and say, okay, it's fully funded. What is a challenge that you would love? Solve that. People have to go and build something or do something to demonstrate.

Oh, you know, I would love to see something. You know, there are people working on these kinds of things, but again, it's the. The ocean we've got to do. Well, the. The manufacturing of plastic and the. The infiltration of plastic throughout our planet is. We need to treat that as a disease. It's a disease that we need to cure. And how we get that mindset that we all know that we can't go down that road and keep going down that road of plastics. What is the replacement and how do we rapidly. We've got two things that we need to do. We need to get off the plastic that we're using. So what is the replacement?

The pet plastic that survives for hundreds and thousands of years in our oceans, doesn't break down, gets into the fish.

Yep. And so we need to, like. And then we need to clean up the mess that we've created as a result of it. So those two things need to. But, you know, a lot of people say, well, you know, the manufacturers of products are like, well, people are buying, you know, this, so they don't, obviously don't care, but we don't have a choice. You know, we, we people are going to buy what's convenient and on the shelf. If you put it in glass, we're going to buy it. If you put it in plastic, we're going to buy it. We, you know, and we really need, you know, industry, we need to hold industry to this new standard. So how do we create a new, you know, what's the next thing that is going to take us away from plastic sustainably and can be implemented globally and quickly? And then what is the cleanup that goes with that for the mess that we've created?

Great, great X prize. Reinvent a container material that's biodegradable and sustainable.

Yeah. That can be widely adopted because again, it's about how do we take something that is prolific, you know, within industry of how we packaged goods and stuff and then, and how can we help industry move away successfully from that current model?

I love that. And the other half of it, how do we clean up the oceans that.

We have to do? You got to do them in concert. You got to do that, that, those two things together.

Those are great X prizes and great moonshots. That's been incredible conversation. Dr. Cyan Proctor, artist and explorer and astronaut and engineer and just a great person and an inspiring individual. Cyan, thank you for what you've done. Thank you for being an example. Thank you for putting your heart and your soul out of there to inspire others to follow your footsteps.

Thank you. Thank you, Peter. I've enjoyed our conversation and thank you for using your space to inspire those within your reach and beyond.

Thank you. And where do people follow you on Twitter or how do they get involved in your projects?

Yeah, I'm on Twitter and Instagram @Doctor Dr. Siam Proctor. And you know I have a Patreon and I have my books, MySpace. It's called Space Twins Inspire and people can buy it. I self published it on Amazon. So any help is always appreciated.

Beautiful. And have a beautiful day. Looking forward to seeing you again very soon. Thank you my friend.

Bye bye.