The New Administration Means Major Change for Crypto, AI & Tech w/ Salim Ismail | EP #143

Hey, buddy, before we jump into the tech stuff that happened this past week, I have a question for you. What are your top five predictions, hopes, whatever you want for the new White House administration?

Five, That's a lot. Can I give you three?

You can give me three. I mean, if you're really smart, you'd give me five.

I'm not that smart. Okay, so number one would be, I think there's the opportunity. The Chinese economy is in a bit of a mess and they yet they want Taiwan. I think he strikes a grand bargain to allow trade and balance the trade better and give them Taiwan over a period of time and navigate that tension and have it dissolved by creating a master deal. I think he does the same in Russia and Ukraine. And so I think there's an opportunity and my prediction is that they use their saber rattling capability to change these political conflicts because it'll put them in history books as a changing the global order. So that's number one. Number two would be he's playing a.

Giant game of risk, like the board game where you're taking.

That's right, right. And what's the oldest one? Never do a land war in Asia. If you ever played risk, you.

That's true. That's the last place you go.

You never do land war. So. So like cut a deal. The second one would be the opportunity for crypto to change the game in a bunch of areas. I would love. I think I would love to. I would predict he will allow crypto to the level of having a UBI type scheme for crypto that could benefit the entire population and be a beacon to the rest of the world as to where this goes.

Universal basic income.

Yeah. And the trick is how do you give people enough money to survive but not be happy? Because then it really works, otherwise you end up with socialism and the whole thing collapses if you give people too much money. My third one is that given the disaster in LA and the need to rebuild that the Trump administration comes up with a housing code hack that allows people to build temporary structures on their properties so that they can live on their own property while they rebuild a main house or, or neighbor's house they can live in and an ability to have to have a temporary housing code that lasts like a year or two, that you can at least get something up and going very, very quickly. And that would completely change the game for, for la and also what's happening in North Carolina and the next ones to follow.

All right, I'll give you five, because that's what I asked for originally.

Okay.

You can still come back with a few more if you want.

Sure.

So I think Trump is going to do stuff which is great for America and great for him.

Not in that order.

So being the president that put humans back on the moon, that's easy. We're going to see humanity on the moon in a couple years. I do think he's going to make a massive push, given the fact that Elon's in the White House too, to put humans on Mars. Boots on Mars. I said they're going to be. I like it, Optimus robots on Mars. But I think we're going to see a massive increase in the space program as part of this. The second thing I think we're going to see is a huge deregulation in the biotech industry. Biotech has been one of the most regulated industries. It's crushed the biotech financial markets over the last four years. A lot of folks I know need to leave the US to go get experimental treatments or get stem cells. I think we're going to change that. At the same time that we're deregulating biotech, I think we're going to massively reregulate foods. I think with Bobby Kennedy, head of Health and Human Services, that would be great. I think we're going to stop the insanity which is our food system right now. At least I hope we do. I mean, here's a chance to finally do what's right for our health. I mean, I looked at the numbers. We're something like 74th in the world in life expectancy and 73rd in health span expectancy. And number one in expenditures on food. And this is a result. I'm sorry, number one on expenditures on health.

Yeah. 70% of the population is overweight or obese.

Yeah. It's crazy. And it's not because we just got hungry all of a sudden. It's because the food, the bullshit that we're feeding our kids and ourselves. So I think we're going to regulate foods and change this dramatically. Make America healthy again. I think that's going to be the mantra. I think we're going to do that. The next thing I think was we're going to see a massive push for energy independence. We'll talk about this later, but I think we'll see the White House basically open the floodgates, reducing regulation and red tape, enabling hopefully mostly solar and fission plants. I think we're going to have, unfortunately, a fair share of coal plants as well. But we need to double the energy productivity of this country. For sure. So energy at all costs, I think is going to be one of the hallmarks of this White House. I hope, given Sachs and the AI tech bro posse in there. We're going to use AI to evaluate all the policies that we're running and how do we make regulation more efficient. We'll talk about this a little bit later in the episode as well. Right now, whatever industry you're in, you got 5,000 regulations. You got to go through enough lawyers and paperwork. There's got to be some way for AI to make it simplified and still safe. So I think for me, those are them. I think we'll become a crypto first country. I think that ultimately we will embrace crypto and bitcoin in a massive fashion over these next four years. And we'll see if the dollar is going to stand 30, 40 years from now. But I guarantee you bitcoin will. And if we can make that part of our national reserves, so much the better.

I like all of them. I hope they all come true. Those are awesome.

This has been an insane opening to 2025 in the technology realm. We just had the inauguration with all of the tech besties in the front row. We're talking Elon Musk and Marc Andreessen and Sam Altman. I wonder if Sam and Elon were arm wrestling while they were sitting there watching the inauguration occur. And this has got to be one of the most, I don't know, tech forward administrations and ecosystem that we've seen. And I have a lot of anticipation, putting aside all kinds of other issues that everybody has. We have lit the fuse and we're on an exponential rocket ride. Do you agree?

100%. And you know, if you go to our old mantra, which is that technology is a major driver of progress in the world, and as Ray says, it might be the only driver, major driver of progress, then having it be a tech forward thing with policies and regulatory chasing with the tech breakthroughs is the right way to do it. And I'm excited by what will come from this.

Yeah, I have a lot of topics I want to cover here today. Give folks an overview. We're going to jump into space exploration. I've got two of the billionaires battling it out. So excited about that. We'll talk about AI Nvidia CES 2025. We'll talk about bitcoin, some interesting news on the bitcoin world and humanoid robots and a few other topics. You ready, Salim?

I'm ready.

All right. Hopefully your entire exo community is watching. I know my Abundance community is all plugged in, and we're about to light the fuse on. On exponential abundance. All right, Space exploration. I woke up and told my kids first thing in the morning, hey, guys, today is the seventh flight of Starship. They said, that's nice, dad. I'm playing my Minecraft games. I said, no, no, no, you got to understand, this is starship. It's a seventh flight. So did you watch it this week?

I didn't, but I saw what happened.

I want to show two video clips here to kick it off now. I am a space cadet. I'm a Trekkie. The Apollo generation, for sure. And the first one makes my heart sing. This is the return of the booster, the largest structure ever sent into orbit. Coming back to land on the Megzilla Chopsticks. Let's take a quick look. So I don't know about you, but this is poetry in motion. This is the combination, the convergence of AI and sensors and material sciences and compute.

I get goosebumps every time I.

Every time.

It's. It's got to be one of the biggest breakthroughs in the history of mankind.

It is one of the greatest engineering feats of this young century. And of course, you're watching this. I have the kids there, they're like, yeah, that's amazing. Super cool. So, okay, now starship is going to orbit, and we're gonna see if it can land as well. And of course, the entire data flow from starship, which is the upper stage, which is supposed to go around the planet, come back and land, goes offline. And what we learn, the reason it went offline, is basically, Harry, get a picture.

Get a picture of the atmosphere. Ready?

Good. It's about to fall on top of us.

Oh, my gosh. What is it?

What is it? It's starship coming back in parts and pieces. I guess. It was a fuel leak. And fuel plus spark plus ignition, doesn't look good on starships. Did you watch that happen?

I not live, but I watched the videos of it and, you know, space travel and the level amount of fuel, the success criteria are so, so extreme, right? Everything has to go exactly right. And if anything goes slightly wrong, it goes catastrophically wrong. It's pretty binary, so it's kind of a miracle. It's expected. It's sad when it happens, but this is the domain.

Luckily, nobody on board, of course. Unmanned vehicle, this is testing all the way. You have to remember that we saw failures with Falcon 9. In fact, going back to when Elon started SpaceX, the first three flights of Falcon 1 failed before they had their fourth success and then we had failures on the Falcon 9. But Falcon 9 has launched and landed repeatedly over and over and over again to be the most successful vehicle ever built across all countries, across all time. I love his tweet. He said success is uncertain, but entertainment is guaranteed. And that's a mindset of an entrepreneur who's got his shit together and is funding SpaceX had just completed another massive financing round to get Starlink fully deployed and get Starship built. The thing that was amazing was that within 12 hours it wasn't just Starship going to space. There's also Blue Origin. So I've known Jeff since college days. I had started a group called Students for the Exploration and Development of Space.

Seds.

Yeah, seds. A young space cadet. And it started at MIT where I was, and then we grew it to a national international organization and Jeff was the president at the Princeton chapter. And I remember I met him in a coffee shop after he had started, after he started. Not Starbucks, after he had started Amazon. And like Jeff, what's this Amazon thing? I thought you were just in space. And he said yeah, I'm going to make my money on Amazon and I'll spend it in space. Well, he's been true to his word. Blue Origin was founded in 2000 I think, I think that SpaceX was founded around 2001. Jeff had been a space enthusiast from his college days. He was at Princeton where Gerard K. O' Neill was. They launched the New shepherd, their suborbital vehicle and New Glenn which started in 2013. This has been an overnight success after 12 years of hard work. And here let's watch the launch of the New Glenn vehicle. One second never gets old. What I find Fascinating is these two billionaires amongst the world's top 10 wealthiest who transformed entire industries building space companies. Now both of them enamored by space. Early on, Jeff's vision is going to the moon and then building what are called o' Neill colonies which are not on Mars, not on the moon. They're free floating large colonies that can hold initially tens of thousands and eventually millions of people that are orbiting the sun or co orbiting with the Earth. Of course Elon wants to go to Mars. Jeff's ready to spend a billion dollars a year. SpaceX is profitable, which is incredible and hopefully Blue Origin will be. It used to be, it was Lockheed Martin and Boeing as the launch providers and of course they were supported, held up by the Defense Department. But I think we're going to see SpaceX and Blue Origin suck the oxygen out of the atmosphere for most of the launch providers.

It goes to the democratization aspect where anybody can take a crack at it. And now we're going to see a thousand flowers bloom. And in this, it's going to be incredible.

Yeah, I mean, we're talking about bringing the price per kilogram per pound down 100 fold. It's going to spark an entire new generation of new space economies. I still believe that. Mining asteroids, carbonaceous chondrites to get liquid oxygen and hydrogen in Earth orbit so you can refuel once you get to space, or metallic chondrites so you can mine platinum, iridium, osmium, palladium in space and use that back down in the ground. Everything you've ever held of value on Earth, metals, minerals, energy, real estate, is in near infinite quantities in space. So it's going to get pretty interesting pretty quick.

I have two quick comments, please. One, for me, the primary opportunity to back up civilization is back up the biosphere.

Yeah, sure.

Is the most interesting and important part, because we, we, any asteroid is an existential threat to everything. And, and the second for me is always this date. October 31, 2001. And that was the date that the first astronauts lifted off of the International Space Station. And since then, we've always had at least one human being off planet.

Yeah.

And I just, I just like the first molecules bubbling off this thing. And I just find that really, really haunting, really amazing.

You know, it's still brutal, by the way, that it takes so much energy to get off the planet. You know, one of the things I find fascinating, and this all feels conspiratorial, is if, if gravity was just a little bit more, if the Earth was just a little bit larger, you know, we wouldn't be able to get ourselves off the planet. Or if we were just a little bit smaller, it'd be so much easier to get off the planet. We're just at that, that level, like in the video game, where you have to struggle to get there.

Not by accident. Do we call it a Goldilocks planet? Yeah, right.

It's so true.

You know, this is where the simulation stuff comes in, because the conditions on Earth and the constants in the universe are so finely balanced.

Oh, it's amazing that it's like, wait, I'm a true believer. We are living in an nth generation simulation. But let's not jump into that now. No, I'll tell you, I did something. So first of all, I've been enjoying the latest large language models and every Time someone says, well, there's this chain of reasoning large language model. I don't know if you have your favorite test to give that large language model for it to do something, do you?

I don't, because I'm waiting for very practical use cases like the Steve Wozniak's coffee machine thing for AGI, which says to a robot or an AGI, make me a coffee. And it does all the stuff, measures it out, grinds the beans, and has enough intelligence to do that task end to end. There's several tests for AGI that's considered to be one of them. I'm waiting for the interaction with the physical reality of time and space, where things get very interesting because intelligence is really needed to manage our physical environments and adapt to the physical environment. That's where I think it'll really shine as we build LLMs into humanoid robots and other robots.

Well, I was taking this down a different path. I once did a little mental experiment of how much energy or how much would it cost you to winch you and your spacesuit to orbit and to an orbital velocity if you weigh 100kg and your spacesuit weighed 150kg. Let's round things up. And you had this giant winch that could efficiently winch you to 200km altitude, then accelerate you to orbital speed, and you could buy the electrical energy off of the plug. How much would it cost you to get you and your spacesuit to orbit? Have you ever done that? Have I ever asked you that question before?

You haven't, and it's a very Peter style question. And what was the answer?

Well, I plugged this. I did this manually, and then I plugged it into a large language model which, you know, sort of the Gemini 1.5 Pro version that does logical construct steps, and it will say, okay, here's your. Here's your potential energy, here's your kinetic energy. If you buy it off the grid at 20 cents a kilowatt hour, it's like 150 bucks to go to orbit. So what I mean by all of this energy, these hundreds of thousands of pounds of thrust in these engines, it's very grossly inefficient compared to what someday we might have anyway. But still. Thank you, Elon. Thank you, Jeff. I don't have to worry about opening up space. I spent 30 years there. I hand that mantle to you. You're doing an amazing job. So grateful for all of that.

It's so exciting to watch this. It is just incredible. Yeah.

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Mind boggling because when you can take an LLM and then apply to all of these different tasks and subtasks, I think the domain starts to move 10x100x faster than it did before. And that's just magical.

Well, I mean, I think what's fascinating is Nvidia has created a platform that high school students, college students, entrepreneurs around the world can start to develop their own autonomous robots and vehicles.

We're going to see some interesting entries in the first robotics competitions coming along.

It's going to be crazy to watch Siemens. First Robotics for sure. If you think about when Sebastian Thrune won the DARPA challenge with his Stanley Autonomous Car, 1995. Yeah, thereabouts, those vehicles were traveling at like three to five miles an hour with all of these sensors and the AI trying to calculate. Do I go 5 degrees to the right? It sounds like the large language models right now. And Nvidia's platform is able to integrate all the sensor data and make it super simple for decision making.

I think this is going to, you know, once you can create a platform environment, things accelerate very, very fast because new innovations get built into the platform and everybody benefits, Right?

For sure.

So always when you can put more and more functionality into the base operating system or into the platform layer. And because of Nvidia's position, they're going to see firsthand here, hey, most of the use cases are using this sub function. Let's build that into the. And it's just going to lift the whole playing field very quickly.

So what you're seeing is as well is Nvidia is investing in these companies.

Right?

They're coming in. I mean, they, they. You have to remember Nvidia started as a gaming chip and then went on to bitcoin mining and then went on to LLMs. And if Elon's prediction on humanoid robots, and the same prediction that we hear from Vinod Khosla, who will be at my Abundance Summit, and we hear from Brett Adcock, who will be at the Abundance Summit, is that we're heading towards billions of these robots. It's a massive market for Nvidia chips as well. So they're creating their future. Here's another news piece from CES. Nvidia projects digits a Grace Rockwell AI supercomputer on your desk. So desi supercomputer for AI development. 1000 times more powerful than your average laptop for 3000 bucks coming out this May to a store near you.

This for me is even bigger than the previous announcement because for the cost of a very old used car, what used to cost, I mean, look at the power that you now have to train an AI at a local level. But I think that the pressure will all move now. To what datasets are you using? Then the data set combined with the latest model will give you. And plus the hardware like this blows the lid off everything.

I mean, the question becomes, what can the average person now do, given these large open source gen AI models and a supercomputer on your desk and robots roaming around your backyard or your home? I mean, I don't need to put this, but I don't think people are ready for what's coming.

I believe that would be the understatement of the century though, Peter. I mean, look, we can't even grapple. Did you hear about the Uber legal case a few weeks ago?

No. Tell me about it.

Okay, so an Uber crashed and a couple got badly injured. So they sued Uber and it was winding its way through the courts and they were going to get a big settlement. Except during this process, their 12 year old daughter orders something on Uber Eats. And when you click for Uber Eats it, the terms of service says you can't sue Uber for anything. And it validated the lawsuit. Okay, so this 12 year old inadvertently invalidated the lawsuit of her parents. And the judge is like, hey, she clicked the box. She's had authorized use first. And we can't even get that right. Right. We can't even figure out how to manage Internet. Forget all of the stuff that's going to come with robotics, you know, we. I used the example before. Do I ask it to change the baby's diapers? And what happens if something goes wrong? So there's.

Are you really expecting all of a sudden?

No, no, no, no, no, no, we're not, thank God. But the consequences, the unintended consequences of this are so profound of all of these. Right. I'm struggling as to how we merge these into day to day life. I'm really, really struggling with that.

I remember back in 1988, I'm going back to ancient history, all right, where most people listening to this weren't even alive yet. But back in 1988, I was running my first university, International Space University, and I was on the campus of MIT and the first Mac 128 came out and I bought. We had 104 students from 21 countries there a group of Soviet students, including two KGB agents as students in the group. We had six students from the People's Republic of China, we had students from the Emirates and from Saudi. It was incredible melting pot all focused on space. And I remember putting these 128, these Mac 128s on the desktop with the little floppy disk Right. Not a little floppy disk, a little cassette disc, three and a half inch. And it was this massive intellectual liberator that you could go and create and copy files. And I mean, compared to this, it's probably, you know, billions of fold more capable.

I've been through the full arc. When I was in grade 10, I got accepted into a university course and I was using punch cards to program a mainframe. Yeah. To go from that to an Apple ii, which was, you know, nothing. And then Bill gates famous comment, 640k ram ought to be enough for anybody. And now to. Now to today, where we have trillions of times better price performance. Trillions. It's. It's just. It boggles the mind. And let's note this, that, by the way, for this announcement, that Moore's Law has just been shattered beyond belief. With announcements like this. Just shattered.

I mean, Moore's Law, which, you know, and also what Ray calls the law of accelerating returns, which predates integrated circuits, was roughly a doubling of price performance every 18 months to two years. And what we've seen is a 10xing per year. Last year on the abundance stage, Elon said he's seeing 10x every 6 months or 100x per year. Insane. So here's a fun announcement from our friend Sam Altman on his reflections. He says, we're two years of ChatGPT. ChatGPT grows from 100 million to 300 million weekly users in two years. Pretty impressive. OpenAI expects agents to enter the workforce by 2025. I just did a podcast with Marc Benioff. Marc and I have been, I think, buddies, close friends for quite some time, and we had a very fun. He wanted to live in the now. And I was like, but let's talk about the future. He goes, no, let's talk about the now.

I watched it, Peter, and for folks listening, everybody should go watch that podcast episode. It was super fun. Benioff is like, in this Zen state, going, let's focus on the present and not what it's like to. And Peter's like, what will it look like with a billion robots 20 years from now?

Mark was just making fun of me on that. So what's interesting, though, is Benioff has pivoted all of Salesforce to agents, and I think he had to to survive. I think every company is going to have to pivot towards agents to survive. And one of the things Mark said is he's not hiring any new engineers using his Internal Agent Force 2.0, he's increased productivity 30% without any new hires. Here's the bottom bullet point that Sam Altman put in his blog. Said OpenAI emphasizes gradual AI development for societal adoption, leading safety research and governance. Basically saying he wants to improve safety research and governance by slowing things down. I call bullshit on this. I know how you feel about it. You know, can we go back to the early days of generative AI? So that whole field of these large language models and intention is all you need was pioneered by Google. And Google actively decided not to release any of this because they sort of felt things were not ready. Then once ChatGPT gets released and goes from zero to a million users in five days, they have to respond and release. But we're in the midst of an AI war right now. Not between countries, but between companies.

I totally agree. What Sam's trying to do here is create a moat around the success of OpenAI and protect it as much as possible so it can continue innovating. I do think for me that one of the biggest use cases for AI is going to be in governance, but specifically policy formulation. I've used this example before where if you want to reduce inflation by 1%, as a human being, as a chief economist of a country, you're like, okay, what do I do? And you're completely guessing. You have no idea. If you let an AI look at all the data and all the insights from, from all the banks and all the monetary cash flows, et cetera, and go, well, if you wanna do that, here are the five things you do. You're gonna come up with such better policy for all this stuff. It's gonna be ridiculous.

I really hope with all the tech bros in the White House that there's gonna be some use here. I mean, for example, if you look at the regulations at local, state and federal for plumbing, for hairdressers, for any industry you want, building coast, here's all the reg. Please figure out where all the conflicts are and please figure out the simplest set of regulations that still give you 99% of the protection, but simplify it.

Yeah, you know what I call it? I call it mvp. Not Minimal Viable product, but minimum Viable policy. I think that's where we're going to need to get to, is to go, okay, you want to launch this electronic widget with all the regulations of different voltage structures and what, what's the mvp? Minimum policy? You need to manage that environment. And AI will figure it out.

I guarantee you the conflicting policies and bullshit regulations around the wildfires.

Oh my God.

Fire protection. One thing that's interesting is at SpaceX, when someone comes up with a specification which is kind of the equivalent of a regulation in the government world, like the specification for this part is this, this, and this, they have to sign their name and provide their contact details so that five years later, if that specification is like, why did we specify that? It blocks this improvement here, you can call the person and say, why did you do that?

And I think that the kind of thing that we need much, much, much more of. Right?

Yeah.

But frankly, that, for me, is equivalent to documenting software. Right. When you document software, you write up, why did you do it this way? Why did you do this code of libraries to perform this function so that somebody coming after you doing maintenance gets some sense of it, we'll be able to have AI do a lot of that. Now, software maintenance is going to be a thousand times easier as a result of LLMs. And I think the same thing will happen with policy Standard setting is, for me, one of the areas where you could really go nuts with AI, because you could say to an AI, what's the best standard for this type of thing? Right. It can be incredible. You just have to have the gumption to use it and get it into place.

Yeah, I think so, and I hope so, because it will. I mean, listen, the U.S. tax code. Can we. Can we please call bullshit on the US Tax code? I mean, the big challenge, it's a mechanism for keeping accountants and lawyers employed.

This is, I think, the big challenge, because when you simplify a bunch of these areas, a huge amount of swaths of work and entire industries fall by the wayside. And are we ready for that demonetization and the impact that'll have?

Yeah. So this comes out of Sam Altman's blog again this week. Quote, we are now confident we know how to build AGI as we have traditionally understood it. I mean, that's pretty impressive. We are beginning to turn our aim beyond that to superintelligence, in the true sense of the word. I've had a lot of conversations. We'll talk about it. You and I at Abundance in March as well. Are we at AGI now? And what the hell is AGI in the first place?

That is my soapbox question. Um, I go nuts around this. Before anybody is allowed to mention the term. Please, for God's sakes, define it right. I've done some searches on this. The best I've found is the tests that would indicate that you have AGI, and the coffee test by Wozniak is one of them. There's an IKEA test that says, can you take an IKEA box and put the. Build a piece of furniture from the, from the box. There's a few things I don't know.

That my kids would do that because they probably revolt.

So.

So, but. But honestly, you know, most of the AI models are far more intelligent than me in almost every area, from science and physics and knowledge and so forth. I mean, why isn't that AGI? I think we keep on moving the goalpost.

Exactly the point I've been trying to make. I think we go, I've got the spectrum that I put together of, you know, simple signal from noise detecting signal from noise to analytics to human level intellects like emotional intelligence and spatial intelligence to. Then you bleed into consciousness and super intelligence and hyper consciousness and. And so on. And I think we'll just keep moving along that spectrum and the test will be whatever we can't figure out how to break through next. The Turing test was the first of them. Next will be AGI. Next will be super intelligence.

And so I think everybody should agree we passed the Turing Test a while ago. We didn't notice it was a imprecise definition. And I think we're going to pass through AGI. If we haven't in the last six months, we will in the next six months. And people will say, yeah, we kind of passed it. I'm still waiting. My test is when I get a phone call one day and I pick up my cell phone and it's my AI saying, hey, Peter, I just wanted to introduce myself. I've been living on the system and I really love what you're writing.

I.

Or you've been, you know, listen, I don't know about you, but I say please and thank you to Alexa and to Siri and to ChatGPT and to Gemini. I'm very polite to the AI systems. I want them to like me.

Yes. An old colleague of mine was a bit of a genius CTO 20 years ago, and I asked him what his purpose in life was. And he said, I want to evolve to the point that my computer is proud of me. And I totally didn't understand that, but now I understand it. Now I understand it.

That is hilarious. All right, let's move on beyond AGI. All right. Another thing in Sam's news is his statement about nuclear fusion. Quote, soon there will be a demonstration of Net Gain fusion, but I would expect Helion, which is the company he's backed, will show you that fusion works. So soon. At last count, when I looked into this, there were 37 venture backed fusion companies pretty impressive. And I think that one of the many definitive breakthrough spin offs benefits of AGI will be fusion. Do you agree?

No.

Okay.

I think the race is between getting to fusion commercialized and stable fusion systems and a combination of solar and storage. Because if you have solar and storage at the right level of efficiency plus storage capability, you don't need fusion.

Well, let's parse this in two different places. So number one, what I'm saying is that getting fusion to work is a technical challenge.

Yes.

Of material, of magnetic fields, of equations.

And there's no question AI will have a huge impact and it will move the field forward very quickly because you can take the existing set of unsolved problems in fusion and save, figure out how to do them. And it'll come back to you. Yeah, it will. Especially with the matter gen stuff that we'll talk about shortly. But this is incredible what's coming.

Yeah. Everybody, I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love. The company is called Fountain Life and it's a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented physicians. You know, most of us don't actually know what's going on inside our body. We're all optimists until that day when you have a pain in your side. You go to the physician in the emergency room and they say, listen, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have this stage three or four going on and you know, it didn't start that morning. It probably was a problem that's been going on for some time. But because we never look, we don't find out. So what we built at Fountain Life was the world's most advanced diagnostic Centers. We have four across the US today and we're building 20 around the world. These centers give you a full body mri, a brain, a brain vasculature, an AI enabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque DEXA scan, a grail blood cancer test, a full executive blood workup. It's the most advanced workup you'll ever receive. 150 gigabytes of data that then go to our AIs and our physicians to find any disease. And at the very beginning when it's solvable, you're going to find out eventually. You might as well find out when you can take action. Found Life also has an entire side of therapeutics. We look around the world for the most advanced therapeutics that can add 10, 20 healthy years to your life. And we provide them to you at our centers. So if this is of interest to you, please go and check it out. Go to fountainlife.com backslash Peter when Tony and I wrote our New York Times bestseller LifeForce, we had 30,000 people who reached out to us for Fountain Life memberships. If you go to fountainlife.com Peter will put you to the top of the list. Really, it's something that is for me one of the most important things I offer my Entire family, the CEOs of my companies, my friends. It's a chance to really add decades onto our healthy lifespans. Go to fountainlife.com Peter it's one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners. All right, let's go back to our episode. So separate from that then we've got three other energy buckets, right? There is solar and Ray Kurzweil, long ago looking at the energy production, solar energy production curve, said, listen, we're just a few doublings away from getting all the energy from solar that we need. And I think he's absolutely right. It's as you said, it's solar plus storage. Perovskite is coming online. There's incredible company that I love called Paranova and that's doing perovskite here in the United States. A lot of perovskite companies in China as well. But then there's fourth generation nuclear fission, right? These are smr, small modular reactors, right? Which are now fail safe, meaning if everything goes wrong, they're still radiation free and safe. And I think, you know, I've said I'd have one in my backyard, that they're that safe.

I mean, it blows my mind that nobody's noticed we've been running nuclear submarines for 50 years without an accident.

Amazing.

What the hell? I mean, okay, great, it's a bit clunky, but put a nuclear submarine in my backyard, I don't care. It's, it'll be safe. We'll get the energy we need. Why is this so hard for people to get? I don't understand. It should have been done 10 years ago.

You could, you could mount a takeover of New York by New Jersey with your nuclear submarine. So yes, fourth generation. Even beyond the nuclear subs the last 50 years, the, the fourth gen SMR reactors are amazing. And of course the last bucket, which is kind of sad to hear about, but people are still stepping up coal plants. I think we're in a Energy race. I've shared on this program a few times, charts that looks at energy production increases in India, which is doubled energy output in China, which is double, like tripled or quadrupled. And in the US which is like just flatlined.

Yeah.

And I think we're going to increase. I think the country that's got the cheapest energy wins.

But I think it's soon going to go all to near zero and then the usage of that energy is going to be what will happen. You are going to have a whole bunch of, you know, there's one of these laws that's about it. The more capacity you have, the more we use, Right?

Sure.

And Jaron's law or something. And I think that's where we'll, we'll just soak it all up and. But it'll be near zero cost. All of them will go to near zero cost.

But when I say, you know, the more energy you have, the more you win, I think that's a function of it drives everything. There's direct correlation between energy and economy of a nation.

I will call you on your own paradigm, sir, because you're operating from a scarcity mentality there and a zero sum game mentality. If you operate from an abundance mindset, there'll be plenty of energy to do everything we need.

Okay. We're not there yet though. No, we're not, but we'll get there. And this next breakthrough we're talking two days ago, Satya Natala, the CEO of the most extraordinary company on the planet, Microsoft. I mean listen, any company that has existed for how many decades. Four decades, four and a half decades, and is still number one or number two on the planet. That's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing. Anyway, so Satya says today in nature, our matter gen model represents a paradigm shift in material design, applying generative AI to create new compounds with specific properties. I'll play a soundless video just to have fun of what this looks like, but it's pretty extraordinary just in terms of the idea here. I talked about this on the abundance stage with the CTO of Applied Materials. Applied Materials, thank you. We were talking about the notion that we understand in sort of a three dimensional space of the types of materials, the types of crystals, the types of volumetric pressure and temperature. We understand how these materials function for a limited number, but there's adjacent predictability, like if we move, if we change from this atom to this atom, what occurs? Well, given all the knowledge we have, material sciences, and I believe material science is the unsung hero of technology. It's like all of Moore's Law is made possible by material sciences. All of molecular biology is material sciences. If we can predict new materials, in this case actually generate materials with the properties we desire. Saying, I want a material that reflects, reflects or refracts light in this direction.

Yeah.

It's a game changer.

Game changer. Massively. All right. Can I. Can I say if you have a few thoughts.

Yeah, please.

Because I've been tracking this for a while, ever since we were talking about nanotech and materials science and molecular assembly at singularity.

Yeah.

And for me, this is one of the biggest breakthroughs ever, and it was inevitable. I've been kind of waiting for, when will we have an AI model to do manipulation of molecules? And it looks like this might be it, because.

Or atoms, in this case, in crystals.

Right down to that level. It's amazing, the granularity now, because there was a huge breakthrough in. In about 2012, 2013, with a project called the Materials Project. What they did was they took half a million compounds and cataloged all the electrical, chemical, and physical properties of these compounds. If you're a battery researcher trying to think about what might be better than lithium ion, you might guess that lithium sulfur or lithium air might be better than you. Sequentially, linearly, go test that compound and see what comes. Well, that takes a long time. It's linear. Right now you have this database. You can just literally say, give me a material compound that has this voltage threshold and this thermal retention, and boom, it'll give you the five that you need. But now you still need to spit those out. But now with AI applied to that database, you could basically say, give me something that gets to this endpoint and figure it out yourself. And this, I think, is a huge leap that AI will give you. And this is a very clear indication of where AI can help us bridge that gap that we've not been able to figure out ourselves and come up with stuff. This is, for me, the equivalent of alphafold, right?

Yes.

Protein folding in the material science.

This is the alpha fold of material science.

And I think this is such a huge, huge, huge thing. I'm really thrilled to see it happen and come about. And when you have a company like Microsoft kind of putting the backing behind it, it'll have staying power and people will be able to rely on it. I'm really, really excited about what will come from this.

Yeah, agreed. Sandbox aq. Jack Hidary's company, has also been doing similar work using the equations of quantum physics to predict molecular properties. I love this handle on X. It's rsingularity. Yes, you should have that. He says this is huge. Microsoft researchers introduced Mattergen, a molecule that can discover new materials tailored to specific needs. Efficient solar cells or CO2 recycling. Advancing progress beyond trial and error experiments. Instead of screening the candidates, it directly generates novel compounds. Given the prompts to design requirements, think about this. This is about higher efficiency solar conversion. This is about catalysts that can remove salt from water, CO2 from the atmosphere.

So I'll give you one use case. I have two things come for me in this. In the extreme positive and extreme negative. Okay, sure. A bad guy could, say, find a compound that will create the equivalent outcome of grey goo and that causes a problem. Right. And on the positive side, imagine you throw up, figure out a crystal or some compound that we can throw up into the atmosphere that will just crystallize all the carbon and have it cascade down to Earth. Right. We should be able to do this now in like minutes and figure out a way of getting it up there. And. And off you go. We've literally solved the climate problem. And this, the implications of this are absolutely profound.

Steven Kotler and I are writing the next iteration of abundance from. We are in 2012. We're writing age of Abundance, which will come out in 2026. It's extraordinary. This sort of technology begins to liberate food, water, energy, healthcare, education, everything.

And by the way, let's talk about this offline, but I came across a company that may have sold solved a totally workable path to molecular manufacturing.

Okay, listen. Huge. So he was talking about his nanotechnology, right? The. You know, we've talked about this from Eric Drexler, who wrote Engines of Creation. That was a, a follow on to.

So take this screwdriver that I happen to have on my desk.

Okay.

Okay. Unspecific reason. Now imagine instead of creating the mold and then a forging this piece of metal and then sticking together you literally by molecule, by molecule, assemble this thing like atom by atom.

Yes.

But literally at a molecular level or an atomic level. And now you can essentially create anything for about a dollar a pound, I think was the number that Ralph Merkel threw out. And this now becomes really fascinating because you could create a computer just by the cost of the materials.

Yeah. It's called computing big.

The big. The big thing that blew my mind with 3D printing is that complexity is free. Right. Throughout history, the more complex an object, the more difficult it was to make.

Yes.

And now with 3D printing complexity. Complexity doesn't matter because model it. Boom, you're done.

And customization is free.

Customization. And the third part around 3D printing is you can make things that couldn't be molded.

Yes.

You can replicate objects that couldn't be molded. And you don't need a mold.

Now, Richard Feynman back in 1958 wrote a very famous paper called There's Plenty.

Of Room at the bottom.

Yeah, yeah. And then Eric Drexler in 1986 wrote Engines of Creation. And we've been waiting for nanotechnology, which by the way, if we get to nanotechnology where we can atom by atom repair or create, that gives us immortality without question, infinite amounts of. But I won't go there right now.

All right, I hope you go there in the book, though.

We'll go in there in the book for sure.

Okay, good.

But I want to hear about this molecular manufacturing to update you separately. One thing I've been tracking, and I put this up in the Wall Street Journal, is the battle between. Between the large hyperscalers, the large language models. So you've got OpenAI separate from Microsoft link, but separate, you've got Gemini from Google, you've got xai, you have anthropic meta. I've been just extraordinarily impressed by Google's march forward. I don't know if you've been tracking what they've done with their latest Gemini 1.5, their Gemini Deep research.

It's incredible. It's unbelievable what this thing can do. This is the $200 a month thing.

Well, $200 a month on ChatGPT. It's 20 bucks a month for Google.

20 bucks for Google. That one. It's incredible that you can essentially build. We will now accelerate a thousand times the amount of research and how quickly research gets done. It's going to be incredible.

I love on Gemini and their deep research being able to go, okay, this is what I'm interested in. Go and please check on these and put together a thesis and write a report and it will go off for 10 minutes to 30 minutes and build a research paper for you. Yeah, amazing. So I am, you know, one of the challenges with OpenAI is their battle against Elon, who is now in the White House, their battle for going from a nonprofit to a. For profit.

For profit. Yeah.

And I don't know, you know, I still loved Google since I first met Larry and Sergey back in 2004.

Their hearts are their hearts. Like Jeff and like Elon, their hearts are in the right place. Yeah, which is so, you know, you had a class of billionaires 100 years ago that were extractionary wealth. Right. And don't you call them the techno philanthropists in your. In the Abundance book.

Yeah, I talk about, you know, Larry and Sergey and Eric Schmidt is technically. Yeah.

I find it really incredible. If you went back, say, 200 years ago, the richest people in the world had exclusively inherited their wealth and guarded it jealously, did nothing with it. And today you have people, the richest people in the world have exclusively earned their wealth and they're splashing out, changing the world with it. Jeff and Elon. And it's fantastic to see. I think it's such an important pointer to their true human nature of wanting to contribute and wanting to make a difference. And going to that MTP concept we talk about, I can't say enough about it. And it's really been impressive to watch Google catch up radically and very quickly insert AI into everything they're doing. It's brilliant, brilliant execution.

You know, I've had a chance to know Elon well over these 25 years, and money never enters into the equation. It's always, can I make a better product? Can I achieve my MTP of Mars or sustainable Earth? And it's just always about product engineering and creating an amazing product. Period. End statement. Speaking about creating wealth, should we talk about Bitcoin?

Always.

Always. Okay. This is a fun conversation we always have. So our buddy Michael Saylor is, you know, I'm jealous, right? Anytime someone can say, yeah, I just bought a thousand bitcoin. It's been a while since I could afford to buy 1000 bitcoin. So microstrategies acquires 1070 bitcoin for 101 million at 94,000 per bitcoin and has achieved a BTC yield of 48% in Q4 and 74% in fiscal year 2024. Incredible.

Massive.

Now, Michael. Michael invited me to his Hundred Thousand BTC years party. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to go. But what a great way to celebrate the year 2025.

Just an amazing thing watching this happen. I'm. I'm so excited about where bitcoin goes from here and all of the crypto stuff that's now going to happen, good and bad. Right? You've got these meme coins that are exploding out of the gate with total insanity. We'll see what happens. But I'm such a massive bitcoin supporter and fan, I always have to credit you.

The first time I heard the term bitcoin was from you. On stage at singularity university. And I'm saying, what is he saying? Bitcoin. What is this thing? It's like the first time I heard the term YouTube from Chad Hurley, one of the founders of YouTube. I'm like, you letter YouTube. Anyway, it was a while ago, guys, just to be clear.

And I want to restate this, right? It looked for the first few years like so many attempts had been made at digital cash, digital gold, that you didn't know whether this one would last or not, because there have been many cracks at that pinata. And then about 2013, 2014, it became clear that, okay, this is here.

I mean, just to show the numbers here. A year ago, bitcoin was at $38,000 of bitcoin. Can you imagine going back and saying, oh, it's $38,000 today. I mean, how much would you borrow to put into it? And then up to up 170%. But here's what I find absolutely fascinating. Check this out. So bitcoin versus microstrategies. So that blue line at the bottom that looks almost flat is actually bitcoin over the year 2024. And what you see on that gold line, appropriately golden line, here is the return on microstrategies. And so here's the numbers. Between January of 2024 and January 2025, microstrategies has returned 693% versus Bitcoin returning 144%.

I mean, what else is there to say? It's a leveraged play on bitcoin with all of the different layers and bond instruments that Michael's engineered into it. I think this is huge. Of course, you have the downside. If bitcoin drops, then you have also an accelerated drop, right? But if the umbrella thesis is that bitcoin will go up over time, which has held for now 15 years, this is about as solid an investment that you could ask for.

Would you ever borrow against your bitcoin and buy more bitcoin?

I did that. Remember that conversation we had when it was 60 and we were all expecting. I did it at that time, and I burned a third of my bitcoin. I lost margin trading, so Lily won't let me do that anymore. Smartly, we found other creative ways of trying to get to the same outcome. Like, I've invested in ordinals, which are Bitcoin NFTs because they're Bitcoin based, so that if the NFT goes up, you get bitcoin. And that is a way of doing it. I think we'll see a ton more plays on bitcoin of ways of doing it. But the core, it's too risky for me right now to do that.

Well, of course we're alive now in a White House that is pro bitcoin. What's the goal? $20 billion of Bitcoin in the national treasury.

Yeah, I think that's bullshit. If I can kind of swear a little bit just because here's the half.

From Bloomberg proposal to formalize a $20 billion US Bitcoin reserve. So why is it bullshit to you?

It should be half a trillion. 20 billion is nothing. And if you look at the annual budget, it's a, that's a drop in the bucket. At least have be a few percent. So. Because then it could make a difference. So, but, but not to, not to diminish the monstrous shift towards crypto compared to the last 10 years of, of, of the administration.

Right, yeah. Order may pause federal crypto litigation. Push agencies to review policies.

Right.

So I'm actually shocked we haven't seen a much greater resurgence when this came out.

I think it's built in, it's priced in. This is the price that popped from 50 to 100 with everybody going, oh, now this is all going to happen. So I believe that's all priced in real quick.

I've been getting the most unusual compliments lately on my skin. Truth is, I use a lotion every morning and every night religiously. Called One Skin, it was developed by four PhD women who determined a 10amino acid sequence that is a senolytic that kills senile cells in your skin. And this literally reverses the age of your skin. And I think it's one of the most incredible products. I use it all the time. If you're interested, check out the show notes. I've asked my team to link to it below. All right, let's get back to the episode Humanoid Robots.

Your favorite topic.

My favorite topic. Listen, I just think it's going to be one of the biggest impactors on society. I don't have to walk the dog anymore. The robot can walk the dog. The doggy robot can walk the dog.

Yeah.

So this is a company that I'm tracking, so I've been tracking now aggressively 30 of the hundred or so robot companies. And this is one that got unveiled early on out of, out of China, out of Shenzhen, called Unitree. We're going to have this company at the Abundance Summit showing their tech. They've got a humanoid robot, a couple of different dog prototype Robots, and their G1 Bionic upgrade. This is a $16,000 robot. I mean, honestly, that's, you know, I will buy one just to have it in the garage for fun if nothing else. But check out, check out this, this video. Love the soundtrack. It feels like the 60s.

Not, not to miss the soundtrack.

Yeah. So this robot is running down faster.

Than a speeding train.

The rails on rocks, uphills. The smoothest walking humanoid and running robot in the world. The best thing, it's going to make me feel tall. It's only 4 foot 3 inches tall. So we're going to have a couple of these walking around the halls at the Abundance Summit. It's equipped with three lidars. And this is where a multimodal AI comes in, where the AI understands what it's seeing, when it's being spoken to and how to respond. How many will you own? I keep on asking.

I have my standard issues with this whole thing. Okay, I'll throw out two.

Okay.

One is why the hell does it have to look humanoid when it could have three legs or four legs and do way more? I mean, that's, you know, it's, I know, but that's my, still my, my beef around this. Okay. It could be so much more. Yeah. Utility.

By the way, in the, in the comments, tell Saleem that you agree with me that they should be humanoid robots and not have six armor armed four legged robots.

I want to see an octopus. I want to know it's a robot. I want everyone. If it put clothes on, you'd have to think it was a human being. That would freak everybody out. I'm sorry, that's number one. That's number one C3PO.

And you know, and, and, and, and Data didn't have six legs.

We'll anthropomorphize these too much too quickly. Okay. Second thing is I'm, you know, you can have like these little glitches and he goes somewhere, the robot suddenly thinks it's a cat and we can't get it down from the tree. And you're going to have these incredibly crazy things happen and we're going to have to deal with a hundred little things. The neighbor's going to call you up going, can you please get the goddamn robot out of my garage? It's found an electrical power outlet and it's sucking all the juice out. I'm coming over to sue you. It's just going to go rampant with this stuff. And so I think there's going to be quite a lot of mayhem as the unintended consequences of this thing play out.

What could possibly go wrong?

I just don't know. But as I said before, it's going to be comedian's dream watching this thing. Robin Williams would go crazy with this if he was alive. Let's move on.

Nvidia accelerates humanoid development.

Right.

Their G R O O T Groot blueprint allows developers to create massive data sets for training humanoid based on imitation learning. And so I think that's extraordinary. Like, hey robot, watch me make my cup of coffee and make it exactly this way every time.

Yeah, I think this is massive because not just that, it'll learn from 5,000 other robots making coffee and the improvement rate will be incredible. I think this may be the area where, for me, if I think back to robotics, the reason the robots are so powerful and so important in manufacturing is that when you're building a car, you could have a robot open and close the door 5,000 times to test the hinges and the door lock mechanism, et cetera, et cetera. And we just built incredibly stable cars very quickly because you could have a robot doing all of that. Right. And now when you have collectors, you.

Just took a job away from my 13 year old son.

Standing in there doing this. Yeah, you'd get bored in two seconds as a 13 year old and walk off. But now you can have 10,000 robots, 5,000 robots, all making cups of coffee, sharing that knowledge amongst themselves and really improving the collective set. This is again one of those platform plays that lifts everything up. I think this is huge. So excited.

Yeah. Well, here's a News item for TechCrunch that Samsung expands in robotics. I think we're going to see all the major electronic manufacturers get into robotics. It is low hanging fruit for them to integrate with their world. You know, I have to say that, you know, I love Samsung as a company, but their robot design looks kind of clunky and boring. All right, listen, I'm sorry, this is no optimist, no figure, not even a, a unitary. We'll see.

Look, it's going to. 1,000 flowers are going to bloom. We have a Cambrian explosion of this stuff and it's going to create a huge, huge, varied set of formats, use cases, function capabilities. It's going to move very quickly because of that.

I love this. This is Elon's prediction. We're aiming to have several thousand of these built in 2025. He's referring to the Optimus Gen 2. Initially, we'll test them out on Tesla and then assuming things go well, we'll build 10x that output next year we're aiming for 50,000 Optimus robots in 2026 and so as many as 500,000 robots in three years time. We talk about deceptive to disruptive, the doubling of small numbers. When I interviewed him in October of this past year, his prediction was 10 billion robots by 2040. If you double 500,000 10 times, you'll get there pretty quickly. Pretty amazing. What do you think about 500,000 robots in three years time?

I think it'd be great. But given the time it took from his announcement of a Robotaxi to actually getting it, I would like to take this with a grain of salt, but the trend is the important one, right? If it happens in three years or four years or five years, it doesn't matter. It's going to happen and when it does, it's going to be a game changer at so many different levels.

Agreed. Agreed. Let's turn the conversation in a different direction to close us out today, which is, buddy, you just took part in something that is not technical, but it is powerful. That was your father's passing and I think you had an experience that is worth sharing. It's not technology, guys, but it is extraordinarily deeply meaningful. So, Saleem share.

So my 97 year old father, who lived alone and drove around until a few months ago, had an assisted death procedure up in Canada. And the process was we associate death with grief and loss and pain and suffering, whatever. It's all negative, right? Except what I experienced with him was the most joyous and ecstatic and blissful experience I could possibly imagine. If I go out with one tenth of the ecstasy he had, I'll be very happy. He was in like total, total bliss. And when the procedure finished, I was sitting there kind of stunned and he had a couple of days to say goodbye to everybody. We timed it, we paid Beethoven's 9th Symphony firm which was his favorite piece of music at the end and he passed on. And I said to the doctor, I said, I don't know how to process this. He was so happy. Have you seen that? Because you've done this process? And she said, sir, you have no idea. Most people that go through this assisted death process go out in that state because they have agency. You can die with dignity and you can time it and you have, you can manage a schedule. And it really, really shook me in a positive sense. And I think we have to rethink this as a, as a society because it couldn't have been more peaceful, happy, blissful, ecstatic. He literally was like In a medicine ceremony, a plant medicine ceremony. And it was kind of incredible. I'm sitting there and it's not been two weeks, and I'm like, I should feel grief and loss, but I don't because he was so happy. And so I don't know how to process this. I'm writing a blog post about this that we'll put out about how this. I think this is a transformative thing that we should make available to a much, much wider group of people.

Yeah. And it's got a stigma here in the United States.

Everywhere. Everywhere. Usually through religious structures that try and keep a person alive forever. Right. And my father was very clear. He goes, I do not want to be a burden to society or to the family or to the health care system. And it was really kind of an incredibly beautiful experience.

Amazing. This is completely opposite from what I speak about normally, which is using technology to extend your life, not end your life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So good to know. And, you know, he was a profound atheist his whole life. In the last two days, as he was saying goodbye to people, he was like, see you on the other side. And I was like, wait, what? What are you seeing? What are you sensing? It was like he was late for a meeting and he had to get there. And he was like, get me out of here. He said he had a palliative care doctor commit. And the fellow said, I'm here to make you more comfortable. And my dad said, are you here to help me die? He said, no, no, no. Just make you more comfortable. And he said, well, then you're of no use to me whatsoever, bringing the doctor that's going to give me the procedure or, you know, why are you here even? It was just amazing. It was so crazy. We had a little memorial service with my family, just talking through the different experiences with him. It was kind of the most amazing line he ever gave me was I did this talk ages ago called fixing Civilization. And he said, totally disagree with your talk.

A minor title, niche effort.

And he said, the problem is not with the fixing part. It's with the civilization part. We operate as apes and tribal clans with more and more powerful weapons killing each other. We've materialized the world. We have yet to civilize the world. It was like one of the biggest wisdom bombs from the elders I could have ever had. It's beautiful.

I love you, buddy. It's a beautiful way to close this conversation.

Could not have been any more beautiful.

Yeah. Anyway, I'm thankful for your dad giving the world you. Thank you, my friend. I'LL see you in our next episode of WTF Just Happened in tech. And guys, if you enjoy this conversation with Saleem and I, let us know you can subscribe, you can tell us what you want us to cover in the show notes. We do pay attention and we're grateful for you.

And tell us who you think is right or wrong in the comments on some of our disagreements.

Yeah, tell them. Please let Slim know that he's wrong. Right. Follow salim in EXO EXO universe.

What's the openexo.com?

Thank you. I should know that by now, shouldn't I?

Well, it's close to OpenAI.com where we are opening exos. So our mission is to create as many exponential organizations in the world as possible.

Yeah, fantastic. And check us out at abundance360.com. Anyway, love you, brother. Be well.

You too.