Why AI Matters w/ Emad Mostaque | EP #52

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Visit Phoenix Edu Some people think nature is like this, but actually it's like this.

That's why Columbia engineers everything we make.

For anything nature can throw at you.

Columbia engineered for whatever by next year, end of the year, I Believe you'll have ChatGPT on your mobile phone.

Say that one more time.

By the end of next year, you'll have ChatGPT on your mobile phone. Without Internet.

Today the world changes.

This is a regime change. Four of the top 10 App Store apps in December were based on stable diffusion. 41% of all code on GitHub right now is AI generated. We have figured out how to make humans scale. So you have this amazing thing that can create anything.

How far out are you able to see? Can you have a sense of predicting where we are in 10 years?

I can't see possible ideas.

There's enough fear and some of it is deserved. But there also needs to be hope.

Humans are humans. Bring them the information that creates the most value and you will change the world.

I'm excited to share with you one of the most extraordinary conversations I had at this year's annual Abundance360 summit. It was with a friend, someone I've had on this podcast before, Imad Mustaq, who's the founder and CEO of Stability AI. You know his company from a number of his products, including Stable Diffusion. We sat down to talk about his moonshots, to talk about how generative AI is changing the world. What do you do if you're a 20 year old just getting involved or if you're a seasoned CEO or entrepreneur? And how is this going to change the world of Hollywood? Education, healthcare? You know, it was an incredible conversation. I'm excited for you to hear. You know, my mission through this podcast is to help you hear the voices that are filled with optimism and abundance. If that's of interest to you, then please subscribe to this podcast. All right, enjoy the episode. By the end of this episode, you should have a pretty good idea where you stand on AI. Are you excited about it? Are you fearful of it? I'd love to know. Feel free to share your stance with me on Twitter. Hey, pal.

Sir. How's it going, buddy?

Listen, I know you have so much going on right now, it's insane. We are in the midst of the most Extraordinary period of technology ever and you're in the thick of it.

Yeah, I think what's it a good phrase? Is everything everywhere all at once?

Yes, that's basically what it is. I can't mention the conversations he's been having the last 30 minutes, but it would blow your mind. I'm going to give you this clicker. You have some slides to show. I think the very first question to ask is if you were going to bring people up to speed on where we are right now, would you share some of what your thoughts are here?

We have figured out how to make humans scale.

How do you make humans scale?

That's the most difficult thing. Basically, classical AI was all about taking stuff and extrapolating it. We figured out how to figure out principles and latent knowledge with huge compression in these files as we'll talk about in a bit. The most valuable thing you can have is a good EA or a really good analyst.

I have Esther, she's amazing.

Makes such a difference. I'm sure all of you in this audience will realize that. Right. We now have that. Basically what we've done is we've trained these things on large amounts, not huge amounts of data to understand principles. And now when you use a GPT4, it's like a really talented intern analyst with a bad memory and we're about to fix the memory. And it knows how to pass the medical bar exam or medical licensing and others. It knows how to draw beautiful pictures or create audio of any type. And it's basically available to everyone for pennies. And so we have to think, what does that mean? It can mean huge disruption or it can mean basically we're at the point of utopia and abundance.

So if you don't mind, I'd like people know stable diffusion and you'll show them the chart that really rocked me when I first saw it. But what are the wide range of things that stability AI is working on right now? Where do you want to go.

That.

You can tell us about, please?

No, I can tell you. Basically my aim is to provide the building blocks for society os every part of society, if you have skilled experts in them. Our mission is to build a foundation to activate humanity's potential. And across every single modality, we're building models. So audio, video, protein folding, DNA, chemical reactions, language and others. We're doing it for every sector. So you've got a banker GPT, a board GPT to replace all your crap board members, all the way down to national models. So we're doing an Indian national model at the moment, an Indonesian one, a Japanese one, so that everyone can have a file that they put words in and images, audio, text, anything pops out that's appropriate to you to enhance you.

So I want to click on that one because it's very important. People talk about biases in the system, but what you're talking about is creating what you're calling a foundational model that is biased to you or to your company or your country. Yes.

The existing Internet has centralized artificial intelligence that guides our attention, our memorization, where we go. With this technology, we can push Internet intelligence to the edge so every single person, country, culture, company can have their own AIs. And that's an amazing thing because it can work for you, not against you. And so that's the personalization, because what is bias? Right? There are inherent biases in our society and things we can never move fast. And this thing, we can't move fast enough to address them. But then what if you could have your own stories? Everyone here has a story. You're members of A360. You believe in abundance. You know, there's a whole variety of things that make us who we are. Have the AI respond to your own story and work for you. And I think that's the intelligent Internet and that's the amazing future we have coming.

That is. And you built Stability AI as an open platform, which is very different from everybody else. I mean, it's interesting, right? OpenAI has that name. And very funny, if you go to OpenAI.com, it doesn't go to OpenAI, it goes to stable.

Well, actually, open AI here.

Open AI, sorry. Yeah, which is pretty funny. So inappropriate, because you are the open AI platform.

We are. I mean, actually, OpenAI.com also works. But yeah, I mean, basically where we were was that we had this explosion of, like, research. Look at this is again, exponential, literal exponential of the amount of ML research that occurred. And we were like, let's build a generalized intelligence. When OpenAI and others started, we didn't know how to do it. And then we found this one thing called a transformer that pays attention to the important things. Like you guys are paying attention to the important things that we're saying right now, as opposed to just treating everything the same. And it figured out that we could scale it with these GPUs, gigantic supercomputers. They didn't know exactly how to do it. They just kept on adding more and more supercomputers. And we've got a lot. Like, Our supercomputer is 10 times faster than NASA's. Right? Our new supercomputer is 10 times faster than that. Again, exponential. But then they thought this solves everything. Scale solves everything. But have you ever seen a generalized system that outperforms a specialized system? No, but that means you have to give people the tools to make it a specialized system. You're never going to send all your internal company data to ChatGPT or GPT4.

That's an interesting point and I don't know if I heard it from you or elsewhere where some of the banks and large corporations are not sending their data and allowing employees to use ChatGPT. They don't want Microsoft having access to it. So what's the alternative? How do you, how do you go around that?

We have the most popular language models in the world, GPT J Neo NX, 25 million downloads and we're about to release our next generation open source models again, base models and then you'll have the banker board versions, Indian versions.

So I get to use it on my own system that no one else has access to.

You get to go is it via Amazon, Google, intel, anyone on prem in your cloud? You own it Again, it's like you basically it's like actually one thing, it's like again these are like very talented analysts getting an analyst onto conment from Microsoft who goes back to Microsoft versus hiring your own analyst.

Right.

These are the two modalities. So you'll have these big private proprietary models where's lots of secret source and you have these open interpretable models where you see how the, how the cookie is made, as it were, that you own. And I think the latter is far more powerful than the former because you don't need a model that does everything. Then you give people the tools they need and the ownership to create their own experiences and accelerate themselves.

Let me ask you, we're all here trying to understand where this is going. How far out are you able to see? Can you have a sense of predicting where we are in 10 years? Five years?

I can't see past five years.

You can't see past five years?

No, because by next year, end of the year I Believe you'll have ChatGPT on your mobile phone.

Say that one more time.

By the end of next year you'll have ChatGPT on your mobile phone without Internet. Wow.

So we're talking about. Yeah. Is it a stability chat?

Right, yeah. Stable chat.

Stable chat, let's name it properly. So incredible because you've talked about taking how many terabytes of data down to a couple of gigabytes.

So, like, actually, this is probably one thing that I wanted to talk about. Quickly, please. The easiest way for us to communicate has been speech. It's what we're doing now. Text has been harder, but you've seen with ChatGPT, it's not easy. You just ask it to rewrite your kind of emails, and with Office 365 and Workspace, it'll do that. And Visual was the hardest. These have all been flattened by this technology now, so we can communicate anything. But the technology behind it, as you said, was a bit crazy to do this, what we did. So stable diffusion was our text to image model. We were like, do we do it big and do loads of layers or do we make it accessible? And we were like, accessible. So we worked super hard, Manhattan Project, and we took 100,000 gigabytes of images, 2 billion, and created a 2 gigabyte file that can generate anything.

Okay, let's slow that down because the meaning of that is Insane. How many terabytes was it?

It was 0.1 100 terabytes. 100,000 gigabytes and the output was a 2 gigabyte file that can create anything.

And that 2 gigabytes sits on your phone, your laptop, in your brain.

It was the whole stack. So intelligence is compression. You're going to go away from this event and you're going to compress the things that you learn and have t takeaways. Right? That's what we do and that's what these machines do now. But again, it's a single file. Four of the top 10 App Store apps in December were based on stable diffusion, and it was the entire stack, a single file of weights, of numbers.

That's extraordinary.

Words go in, images come out, and it's the same. ChatGPT is a single file. Actually, it's a couple of files, but let's say it's a single file. Words go in, code comes out, amazing essays come out. This is something a bit different. And again, it's like, again, you've taught an analyst just about everything, or as an artist, the analyst and things like that. I think we'll get it down to 100 megabytes, huh? And it went insane because we made it like that. So this is, this is what you.

Texted me and I said, huh?

So, you know, a lot of us were doing Web3 and we were always like, developers, developers are cool, right? In three months, we overtook Bitcoin and Ethereum and develop a popularity.

So on the bottom here is the years. And on the axis, on the Y axis here is the number of GitHub developers.

GitHub stars. Yeah, developers who love it.

And so when you sent me that, I thought that was the axis line.

Yeah. So cumulatively, the whole ecosystem built around this thing, which is a bit like a game engine, has overtaken Linux again. Linux, 20 years, this five months, because we gave it to everyone. And it runs on your MacBook, on your iPhone, without Internet. So you have this amazing thing that can create anything. And I think that's profound. Right?

So we've seen the speed. Profound indeed. We've seen the speed just explode. Can we expect it to get faster and faster?

Yeah, I think you can. So look, words go in, images come out. A lot of you have kind of seen this, you can generate anything. But since the release in August, We've sped up 100 times. Wow. We've gone from 6 seconds an image to 60 images a second. And the quality has improved. And basically the next version is photorealistic.

So 60 images per second is like video.

Yeah, we pretty much got video.

So my question is, is Hollywood scared shitless or are they excited?

They're scared. It's a mixture. There's a few people who are scared shitless and we'll talk about some of the stuff coming down the pipeline later because, you know, Peter and I had a discussion like should we scare everyone shitless completely or should we kind of do hope? And so I'm going to do hope, actually. I think I'm going to focus on this. This is the most disruptive thing ever because again, humans can scale, so you don't need as many humans. There was an MIT study, I think I'll send it to you, which just came out. It showed that basically the third to the seventh decile got like 30% better. The top 5% got orders of magnitude better or multiples better with this technology. And so it lifts humanity and the ability to communicate and do things.

So this is the hopeful future that we share and the abundance mindset.

That.

I think is really important for people to take away. There's enough fear and some of it is deserved. But there also needs to be hope.

I think we always have to look at the unchanging between versus the inevitable. So an inevitable is 41% of all code on GitHub right now is AI generated.

Wow.

To 6 months. ChatGPT can pass a glue level 3 programmer exam and it will run pretty much on a MacBook or a phone.

And that's this year.

This year, right.

Now, yeah.

There are no programmers in five years.

No programmers in five years. So those of you with kids who you are having, you know, with Python lessons and so forth, maybe it's instead helping them to understand how to ask great questions or give great directions or prompts.

Yeah, like with this, this is a technological marvel that we sped up 100 times because we have amazing developers and we have communities of hundreds of thousands. I went to GPT4 and I said, help me write some code to change the nature of inference to something called INT8 to INT4, which is only a year old, so it's not in the data set. And it figured it out and it worked.

Figured out awesome.

Straight out, I asked it to create asteroids in D3 with a high school thing. Yeah. And I put, copy pasted, it worked the game straight out. So again, we have to kind of think about this and we have to think, but what can you do? Well, the answer is you can do anything now. Because a lot of the stuff that blocks you isn't there anymore. Any of you can now be creative. Any of you can now build systems. And so you build the systems that adhere to the unchanging demands of people to make their lives better. And that's value. And they'll pay you for that value.

We're all creators and we're in fact all we had. Will, I am last night at our patron dinner, who's just this incredible creative energy across all modalities. And all of a sudden you're not restricted by what you learned in school. You can bring the best to anything.

You desire, best to anything done. You can control it. So you can just say like, you know, take something and change it to its original form, you know, like this.

You know, from mindset to materialization. Which version of you do you like best?

I don't know exactly. And this is just with words. So there's no more prompts. I just say, I want to change it to this or that and it happens instantly. Now with a new version, you know, you can say, let's do dynamic adaptation again. It happens in one second. You generate all of these variants, you know, and you don't need those prompts. People say, like there's all these magical spells. You don't say that. You say, I want to turn Woody into a still from a western.

Right.

Or replace a fruit with cake. So it also becomes more natural. What are interfaces in the future? Interfaces are nothing. It's all about human extension and it's about information. Theory is at the core of all computer Science information is valuable in as much as it changes the state. Now we finally have a friend to be with us all the time that can bring us the most valuable information and the most valuable state changes.

You're a 20 year old on our zoom audience here or in the room or 23 year old and you're trying to decide what to do. Now what is your advice?

You just throw yourself 100% into this. It's the biggest change in society ever. It'll be more disruptive than the pandemic in the next year or two. And I led the United Nations AI initiative against COVID 19 kayak, helping organize the world's Covid knowledge and make it accessible and useful. I saw that come in. It'll be for positive and negative because you can do things that can never be heard of. As an example, we have an upscaler. It goes from 1 to 8 pixels to 4k in 1.5 seconds. That to that.

That's amazing.

What can you do with that? This is the thing you are given now, the recipes and tools. What can you do? So there's going to be 1,000 companies spending $10 million each this year. I spoke to one of the big four accounting firms. They were like, do we need auditors anymore? I'm like, probably not as many, right? And then they said, okay, we're going to spend $300 million in the next two quarters trying to figure this out.

But that's times.

Many, many firms, everything, everywhere, all at once. And again, this is the mimeticness. We've seen this type of thing happen. Like with the Silicon Valley bank collapse, society's become more and more connected and we've talked about expert systems. I mean, how long have we talked about exit systems for a bit. Yonks, they're here now, right? And again, this is why you can do these crazy things. Like why don't you create your own studio? So how do we play this?

We play this video. You speak and it magically happens.

Play. This is a video rock paper scissors that was done using our technology by two guys in like four days. And it's a whole seven minute video. @ this level of quality, that's all you need. So why not create amazing kind of videos and things like that.

But we're going to get to a point soon enough and I'll ask for your prediction where I can say I want a movie about this theme, 90 minutes long, starring my favorite stars. How when do we see that as a personalized movie?

I think you get there in the next Couple of years. Like rock paper scissors 2. Again, look it up on Google, will be five times as fast. And the next version will be fully generated by putting a script in. I mean, like this one, if you press play. And it automatically generates a music lyric video. So unfortunately we don't have sound. But you can go on Deep Floyd AI on Twitter and see it automatically generated kind of this music lyric video, you know, just from a song input, with the entire kind of style of this as well.

So everyone here is a filmmaker. Everyone. I mean, for me, we have a common passion in disrupting and reinventing education.

Yeah.

Where I can have, in a virtual world, learn about anything. I want a time machine to go and have my favorite, you know, characters teaching me about what anything I need. And that's two years away.

Yeah. I mean, that actually might be here right now. I mean, again, kind of you've seen glasses free, 3D displays, and all sorts of crazy things. But one of the things with this bit is contextualization, because again, we are the stories we make. So one of the things we're working on that's quite fun is can you remake Game of Thrones as a J drama from Korea? So you input it and the characters turn Korean. Right. I'm also trying to get George R.R. martin and HBO to let me remake Game of Thrones Season 8. Because it was terrible. Yeah. And actually it's very interesting. Why? Because Game of Thrones season one to seven, everyone had agency and the meaning was in the interaction between our stories of the characters, whereas the last one tried to get us to an ending. And so it felt so disjointed. So I'm like, I'll help you write your book. We have a script writing AI coming out and a book writing AI coming out. And so we can tell better stories that are more empathetic and engaging. Because again, this is more engaging for the thing. You can customize your thing everywhere. You can customize to every learner. How crazy is that? And there's even crazy all at once.

A new theme. Iman, let's imagine you're in the audience here. You're a business owner, entrepreneur, CEO. And what do you do next?

I think what you have to do next, again, it's kind of what you said. You need to have a dedicated. There's nothing more important in your entire business than this.

So I want to echo that, right? Today, the world changes. Electricity is made available, the telephone is made available, Internet's made available. And this is all of those things together all at once.

Everywhere. Yeah, this is 5G. This is bigger than 5G. Over a trillion dollars went to 5G. More will go into here. Actually, I'll give you an example because again, it's always the unchanging versus the inevitable. Right? I gave the whole of Stability AI the week off at the end of the egg because I was like, holy crap, you're doing a lot right. Because we do everything right and we do it with. We only have 150 people, yet we do every modality because we have the power of community and open behind us, setting the standard. So I give the whole team the week off, said go to sleep, turned off all the things because you're going to die if you don't get some rest. So of course, Business Insider covered that. Stability AI CEO Ahmad Mostak competitor OpenAI says you're all going to die in 2023. We might be make press as well. What can I say? But then what happened is just chilling. And I got like five calls from headmasters of UK schools. Ahmad, what's our generative AI strategy? What? All our children are using ChatGPT to do their homework essays. I was like, don't set homework. Essays get good. So again, homework is never the same for every teacher all at once. And so you have to look at your industry. And again, what will not be the same when you have the ability to scale humans? This is the question that you have to ask yourself. Like in Eton, now bastion of British education, they do their essays live by hand because I told them to do that, because I went to Westminster, who I told to embrace the technology. Right. So again, it's as Peter says, there'll only be companies that embrace Iran. Those who don't. I think the way that it pairs out, because I was a hedge fund manager, invested tens of billions of dollars, you know, like Einstein Markets as well, is that if you are in something that's a SAS company, you're going to have to really think hard because GPT4, for example, and again we'll have our equivalent of that, but we're taking a different approach of Swarm Intelligence versus general has a 32,000 token context window, which means you can feed it 20,000 words of instructions.

Well, what is OpenAI at right now?

That's their 1 gpt4, the one that they. OpenAI is the best language model. You should use OpenAI and you should use our models coming up as well. Private data and general data, Hybrid AI. But that means you can basically tell it all of HR instructions for something like Workday. What does workday do then because it can be replaced by a single 200.

Megabyte file which you can query on your laptop or your phone.

Well, yeah, eventually, but not now. But it doesn't matter. It costs like $2 for query. Right?

Right.

I mean it's insane. So, but then you have to think if you're in a regulated industry, you have super normal margins. You know, if you are in a creative industry, again, you can basically either embrace it to have higher revenue, cheaper costs or not. Like I give you an example. One of our movie directors did a film. Well, actually I can't give you an example. Let's just say millions of dollars are being saved at the moment using this technology. And again, you just have to really think through it. So going back and go, going back.

To our audience here who, you know, use technology but don't have AI embedded in their DNA. I've shared the idea of having a chief AI officer who's really a strategist for you because you're not building your own eyes, you're deciding which platforms to use, right?

Yeah. And again, a very few companies will build their own AI. So I think it'll just be Google, Microsoft, OpenAI and us that build the foundation models that everyone uses. You don't need to because again it's like where the universities churning out the most amazing graduates effectively. You know, some of them you can borrow and they're specialized by those guys and some of them you can hire yourself through your GPUs or kind of whatever. My suggestion is that, that what's the. But the thing is how do you find that person? You know, until they're an AI. No, how do you find that person? Advice. The advice is you need to first find someone who's passionate about this because this is so new. So one of the things that makes us different is that we're a community based organization. We came out of a community, so we have developers. One of them was an Amazon warehouse worker last year and taught himself how to code.

Nice.

Another one's a 19 year old 5th year PhD with 3 graduate degrees.

To be clear, it's not going to be the person who is traditionally the person you would think about. It is driven by passion.

It's driven by passion. Everyone here understands the importance of passion. And passion is what you need for this. Because this is a regime change. It is not more of what came before. So you have to throw yourself in it and have that flexibility of mind. And the key thing is can it bring you what the next thing is for your industry, you know.

Hey, everybody, this is Peter. A quick break from the episode. You know, I'm a firm believer that science and technology and how entrepreneurs can change the world is the only real news out there worth consuming. I don't watch the Crisis News Network. I call CNN or Fox and hear every devastating piece of news on the planet. I spend my time training my neural net the way I see the world by looking at the incredible breakthroughs in science and technology, how entrepreneurs are solving the world's grand challenges, what the breakthroughs are in longevity, how exponential technologies are transforming our world. So twice a week I put out a blog. One blog is looking at the future of longevity, age reversal, biotech, increasing your health span. The other blog looks at exponential technologies. AI, 3D printing, synthetic biology, AR.VR blockchain. These technologies are transforming what you as an entrepreneur can do. If this is the kind of news you want to learn about and shape your neural nets with, go to dmandis.com blog and learn more. Now back to the episode we share. A moonshot in education. I've had the ability to support to some degree what you're doing. Just chat one second about your vision on Malawi.

Yeah. So you know, X prize for learning. Fantastic prize by Tony, who's here next week, tomorrow, I think. And then Elon Musk for the first app that could teach literacy and numeracy in 18 months without Internet. We've been deploying that into refugee camps. The winner of that all around the world, from Rohingya to Malawi to Kenya. And we're teaching 76% of kids literacy and numeracy in one hour a day, in 13 months in the worst places in the world with adaptive learning.

Let's give it up for this. That's been the core of Imad's passion and moonshots. But he's taking it a step further.

Taking it a step further because by doing that, this is without this AI. So we work with the Malawian government as the first example. We are feeding 30% of all the kids in Malawi. We're going to go to 100% and give every child in Malawi their own AI. I want to call it one AI for a child, but I've been told not to. And that's kind of with our charity Imagine Worldwide. But then we've built a special type of bond with the World bank and UBS whereby you put down $20 million. You only pay if a million kids are provably educated. And so we're going to use that and the World bank pays up front and then you can have it in your pension fund and see how a million kids are doing. We're going to use that to scale these tablets plus high speed Internet in every school to every child across Africa. 9 out of 10 kids in Africa cannot read and write a sentence by the age of 10. What happens when they all have their own AI that works for them that's as intelligent as ChatGPT and healthcare on that tablet the AI teaches the kids, learns from the kids and that will also create the national models for every country. Right now we hold the eyes open of the AI, we teach the whole Internet which is why it goes a bit crazy again. We use reinforcement, learning and other things to guide it. This will be different so that technology scales again. There's nothing more as impactful as one to one tuition. And now we can do it in an empathetic way that adapts to each child. I believe that we can also address things like dyslexia and other things. So it's just information processing and you will see that coming. We're doing a big drive towards that. Any information processing issues will be solved by this. Are you an auditory learner? Visual learner? There are no more interfaces, so it's completely customized.

Learning for the individual, their favorite color, sports star way of learning modality knows exactly where they are and where they need to go.

Building the foundation to activate humanity's potential. And so we're going to open source our new language models in the next month and then we're going to announce the next generation of this, an open model for all of the world that you deserve for education and health and other things. Because humans are humans. Bring them the information that creates the most value and you will change the world.

Is this going to revolutionize healthcare to the point of. Yes, let's give it up for Imad on that one. Yes. We've got just two minutes left here. Health and then you're coming back for the Q and A, which will be the fun part because the audience gets to participate. I've always talked about the best diagnosticians. The best healthcare is going to be AI, which is going to level a playing field. The poorest child, the wealthiest child. Same level across the board.

Yes, Humans are humans. This is why I kind of did the kayak project.

Lots of what a great advantage that is.

It's a huge advantage. And again, this is the thing. This is the great equalizer or it's the great controller, which is why I'm open versus closed. This cannot be controlled by any entity. We have to distribute this because I believe this is a human right. It's the next element we can reduce.

So, speaking about that, we're in the middle of the AI wars, and little rumor told me that you got kicked off LinkedIn today.

Yeah, they identified our website as malware first last week and then made all our job descriptions.

Today we got who owns LinkedIn, by the way?

I couldn't say. Oh, Microsoft. So it's going to be very interesting. The stakes are really high. So there's a lot of people that don't want this technology to go out to the world again. I think putting it on these tablets for all these kids. Building a national model to everyone again. Our mission is to build the foundation to activate humanity's potential. And our motto is not don't be evil. It's make people happier. And the happiest you can be is when you have agency. Let everyone have their own agency and create insane things.

On that note, let's give it up for Iman Musk.