How Therapists Can Build Sustainable Nonprofits That Serve Communities & Generate Income With Lauren Lawson [Ep 38]

Welcome to the Thriving therapyneur podcast. The show for ambitious therapists who are ready to unapologetically make more money, scale their impact and build their dream coaching business. I'm Carly Hill, therapist turned coach turned CEO of a seven figure online business. I created the thriving Therapeneur podcast because I'm obsessed with helping big hearted therapists outgrow the office and build successful and sustainable online businesses. So if you are wondering how you can continue to make an impact without sacrificing the life you love, welcome Therapreneur. This is exactly the place for you. Think of it like the business school we never had. I am so excited to dive in with you. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Thriving Therapeneur podcast. I have a special guest with us today. Lauren Lawson is a client of the Therapist to Coach accelerator program. So she is a therapist coach herself and she works with hundreds and hundreds of therapists, also helping them build their nonprofits. So she has a super hyper niche market. She has been in the game for a long time. I would love for you, Lauren, to introduce yourself and give us a better introduction other than that of who you are and what you do and how you help these therapists.

Yeah. So I kind of stumbled into this myself when I was in my doctorate program. Um, we had this awesome opportunity to do program development and design and I was like, I'm gonna start a nonprofit. What else would I do for a dissertation? And I just had this dream. I never even considered starting a for profit. Always worked in nonprofits. Had an amazing experience on a crisis hotline in college and I was like, I knew that's what I wanted to do. So I was pre licensed in my doctoral program and started the nonprofit 13 years ago. And we've been operating ever since. It originally originated in California, and then I moved back to my home State, Pennsylvania in 2019 and registered the nonprofit there. So now we're operating in both states and we have a team of about 12 clinicians and we're booming in both states. It's been amazing.

It's a pretty unique journey. Do you know anyone else like you who came out of the gates and was like, I'm starting a nonprofit. Like, I feel like most people come out of the gates and they're like, I'm starting a for Prof. That I'm starting my private practice because they don't know that this is possible for them and we can. This is a whole topic that I want to get into because you're really showing these therapists this is possible for them. But I feel like you're in a unique position that you always knew that this is what you wanted to do.

Yeah. We are taught as therapists. Like, there's a dichotomy. You either do your career in community mental health, nonprofits, burnout, don't feel valued, get underpaid, or you start a private practice. But what people don't realize is that you can have both. And that's what I teach. We take the best of nonprofits, and we take the best of private practice, and private practice can be a nonprofit. That's what people don't understand. Nonprofit or for profit is a business structure, and you can choose which one you want to do as a private.

Practice, and you can make great money in your nonprofit. We gotta talk about that too. Right? Because I feel like that's a lot of the hesitation and reason why these therapists think that, nah, I'll just start my for profit private practice.

Absolutely. It's a myth. Yeah.

Right. And you're living proof of that. So I cannot wait to talk more about how these therapists can start nonprofits if this is something that is of interest to them. But I would love for you to take us back into your journey, also of you even being in this position to guide therapists through this journey. We just topped off the recording. I was like, how long have we been working together? You're like, it's only been nine months. I feel like you have done so much in nine months. Holy cow. I've seen so many iterations of you. I was shocked when you said that. Let's talk about your transition from therapist to coach. When did you know you wanted to coach? Have you always known this? Let's talk about your niche too, because this just came to us also. I was like, wait a minute. You had a totally different niche when you started the Therapist to Coach accelerator program. So rewind, back up. Get us back to the Lauren, who was like, all right, I'm going to coach. I don't know exactly what I'm going to coach on, but I'm going to do it. Where were you in your life and your practice?

My practice was going great. I was in a good place. I had always worked simultaneously in my nonprofit and community mental health nonprofits in leadership had my kids. And I was like, eh, I'm just gonna do my nonprofit. And I was working three days a week and making really good money. So I was kind of set. But I always have this mindset of, like, I have to be doing something and my mind is always developing and growing, and I'm a visionary. And so I was scrolling on Instagram and literally saw your book ad, and I was like, coach. And, you know, there's always a stigma with therapists and coach. Like, coaches don't really, you know, have the training. And I always thought of it in terms of life coaching versus, you know, these other types of coaching, like business coaching. And so I bought your book, read it, and immediately knew that I was going to do it. So, no, I had never thought about being a coach, but I knew as soon as I read it, like, I'm going to do this program, and I don't care what it's going to cost me, but I'm going to do it and I'm going to put my all into it. And I thought that I was going to have a coaching program that was very similar to my therapy niche, which is helping estranged families come back together. And I thought, oh, let me do coaching with this, because then I can help people in other states outside of my license. So that was really the thought. And then that kind of all changed when I started the program, like, within the first week.

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Yeah, it was pretty soon. And I don't even know why we came to that conclusion, but I remember we had some emails back and forth, and I was like, is there something else that you want to do? Maybe it was just my intuition that was like, I don't know, like, Lauren's got something else up her sleeve that she has to offer. Maybe it was talking about how. Because that work is heavy work.

Yes.

That you do.

And it is heavy.

Yeah, yeah. A breath of fresh air. Somehow, some way, we came to the conversation, is there anything else? And you were like, yes, there's this. I can do the nonprofit coaching. This is what I do all day, every day, essentially. But wasn't there a roadblock for you to step into this identity of being this coach, although it's already what you were helping other people with, let alone your Own lived experience.

Yeah, I thought, you know, therapists don't want to start nonprofits. They want to have for profits. There's, you know, ever since COVID there's been this big wave of therapists leaving community mental health to start their private practices and to charge their premium rates, which I totally agree with, by the way. Like, we deserve to get paid. You know, we do really hard work no matter who we're working with. But I've also heard so many therapists say, I feel so bad for not serving people who don't have access. And so I'm just like, okay, I know there's a better way to do this, but are people actually going to be interested? And that was the roadblock.

Okay, but you were willing to take the leap and the chance and turns out people are interested and therapists are flocking to you wanting to build their private practice, their nonprofit practice. Right. And you're showing them that this is possible for them. And they maybe have always dreamed of this, but they didn't think it was possible for someone like them. Or they thought it was too complex or maybe they didn't understand the difference or they didn't understand the budgets or how they could get funding. And this is all things that you cover inside your program in depth. I mean, it's an A to Z program that you have created. It's pretty impressive, honestly. I have listened to some of the calls that you have had with there because then I have sat there in all, like all that you offer. It is wild. I want to get into that. But let's talk about, since we're on this topic of you adding coaching, going from therapist to coach, you started reading the therapy where book. You're in the thick of it now. Like at first it started off where, you know, the first few months of us working together, you were just laying your foundation, setting up even social media and some of your assets. We were still figuring out your niche and dialing that in. Now you're pretty much up and running like a well oiled machine now. Of course, there's always things that we're working on behind the scenes. Right. What is revenue like for you? What is being in the thick of running a successful high ticket, signature coaching program? You have some people on your team or you're outsourcing a few different things. How is this, can you speak to this experience?

Yeah, it's a whirlwind, but it's an amazing whirlwind. I think I was flooded as soon as I set up my social media I did like a couple of posts and was flooded with hundreds of people wanting to come into the group. And within the first five weeks of your program, I made 18K. I was flawed. I had to move so quick because people wanted to buy the course.

Right.

And so it's been kind of that whirlwind ever since because there's been so much interest. So when I think about where I started at ground zero with this to where I am now, and the amount of therapists that I've talked to and helped and consulted with, I even get for profit practices consulting with me because I have the knowledge of both.

Right.

So it's been a fantastic journey in a very short time period.

So proud of yourself. I am so proud of you. And the thing is too, you're literally just getting started. Yeah. Like your toe is in the water. Like your tippy toe is in the water of how big this can go. I think it took off so fast because, yeah, there's a market need for it for these therapists, but this doesn't really exist. Right. You really tapped into an untapped market for therapists, but it was such an organic journey for you because again, it was your own lived experience. Right. And you're filling the void and filling the gap for these therapists and showing them what is possible. So what about these therapists who they dreamed of starting a nonprofit, but they think it's not really possible for someone like them, or they, they have all this student debt or they're wondering, like, am I going to have the money to start this and is this going to be sustainable? Do you see that often?

All the time. I think that's what we get the most. We get therapists, two different types coming to us. The, the therapists and wellness professionals who've always thought about starting a nonprofit, but they're so uncertain because they've gotten all this feedback and advice from lawyers, accountants, whoever in their life that it's impossible. You can't make money with it. Don't even touch that. And so they're very scared to do it. But they know in their heart they want to serve people and they know that they can do it under a nonprofit. So they haven't even. This is like a pipe dream to them. They don't even think this is a reality. And then we get the therapists who have started a nonprofit, but then they have no idea what to do after that. They don't know how to build it or make it sustainable because of the same things that the other type of therapists come with uncertainty and doubt of like, can I really do this?

Do you have a simple definition? I feel like people listening right now might be wondering what is the difference between nonprofit and for profit? I know, it's a loaded question. It's like when I get the question, well, what's the difference between therapy and coaching? Yeah, you could go down a Google rabbit hole. There's so many nuances, there's so many overlaps. But here's like my super simple definition. Do you have a super simple ish definition for the difference here?

I get this question all the time, so this is how I explain it. When you're thinking about setting up your own practice, you have to figure out first and foremost what type of business structure you want. That means you either want an LLC or an S corp, which is for profit, or you want a nonprofit. And it's all about the business structure. The purpose of a nonprofit is to serve the community and give access to services. And if you do that, then you get certain benefits of that business structure. You're tax exempt from corporate income, you qualify for public student loan forgiveness, you get access to grants, you get, you can fundraise without that money being taxed. And if you are a for profit, then you're the owner nonprofits you don't own. So as long as you're serving your community and you're giving access to care, you qualify for a nonprofit. And that's what I tell people all the time. If you're an insurance based practice, if you take Medicaid, you take Medi Cal, you take Medicare and you're a for profit practice, you're leaving money on the table. You should be a nonprofit practice because you're missing out on the benefits of a nonprofit.

And they think that they have to have tiny budgets. Right. But there's so many pros where, I mean we talk about this being sustainable and them actually making money and a non profit when they're getting funded and you're getting tax exemptions like this is all coming back to you while simultaneously you're serving your community.

Right, Right. So a lot of people, there's a huge myth out there that you don't get paid for being or working in a non profit. That is just so incredibly false. Non profits in our economy, it's like a 250 billion dollar industry. Non profits generate millions of dollars in revenue. Millions. And they pay their staff, there's lots of hierarchy and leadership and so which.

We see in community mental health a lot.

That's exactly why. Yes, we're creating micro nonprofits where you get to decide the pay structure. And so yes, you can take insurance when you're a nonprofit. That's the biggest question I got. You can take cash when you're a nonprofit. You can't only charge a premium rate because then you're not giving access to the community. But that's why you then supplement with other funding sources that you can't in a for profit like grants and fundraising and donations.

Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because you have a grant writer on your team, right?

I do, yeah. We have a whole specialized course, mini course, within the main course of teaching you about grant writing and fundraising and donations. A lot of people think that the foundational funding for nonprofits is grants, and that's not true. The foundational funding is the same as a for profit. It's your fee for service, insurance, cash, pay clients. And then grants and donations and fundraising is all supplemental.

Right. This is so fascinating. This is not common knowledge, like nobody teaches us, right? I know you have it on your list to write a book one day, but I'm just going to tell you again, like you need to put this all in a book for therapists because this is gold. This is really an awesome conversation we're having. So what about if they have a regular job? They're already working. They're wondering, all right, can I do this on top of what I'm already doing? How much of my time is this going to take? How fast can I make money in my nonprofit? Yeah, I'm sure you get these questions.

Right all the time. And it's totally possible to start this while you're working full time for someone else. That's what majority of us do. Right. When we start a private practice, we're starting that on the side while we're working full time. So if you can do that, then you can do this. And if you follow my program step by step, you're getting the approval back from the IRS and you have a nonprofit established within 90 days even less.

Tell us a little bit more about your program that you so beautifully created so fast.

Yeah, basically I walk therapists through making sure they understand what a nonprofit is, how to actually file the paperwork and establish it so you get all the templates. There's no overwhelm about it. You follow exactly what I tell you to do. And once it's established as a nonprofit, then we start building out your funding streams. And if you are already taking cash pay clients, you already take insurance. We're just moving that under the nonprofit and you have revenue right away. After that, we're going to build out other funding streams. So whether that's, you know, you want to do some fundraising or you want to go after grants, we're establishing the foundation for you to be able to do that. And the great thing about nonprofits that people don't realize is that you can have multiple programs under the nonprofit. So in a private practice, for profit, because as therapists, we're the owners and it's under our like license as a therapist, if we want to do coaching or other type of work, it's not recommended we do that. Right. You can do that under a nonprofit because the liability is separate from your personal liability. And you can have multiple programs under a nonprofit that require different types of degrees. So you can have case management, you can have some sort of parenting program, you can have mental health outpatient, you can have substance use. I have people who come to me that say, I want to start a group home, I want to have adult mental health housing. And me and my grant writer have so much experience in going after those contracts that we help you develop proposals for that so that you can get that funding, you can get that money. A lot of those programs are fully paid for. It's not fee for service or called program funded.

There's so many pros, so many, so many pros to having a nonprofit.

And a lot of people don't realize the long term pro and outcome. Student loan forgiveness. I've worked in my nonprofit for 10 years and in November I had my student loans forgiven, wiped clean. $363,000.

OMG.

That is a lifetime of money that, that feel like. I still can't believe it. I'm in shock. But I tell everybody because we are an actual nonprofit that is compliant with the IRS and we serve our community. This is the benefit that I deserve from this. And being able to say I deserve this, this was what nonprofits are meant for, right? And anyone who can do that too.

What other pros have you seen in your personal life from this?

Well, when you, as everyone knows, when you can work for yourself and in your own private practice, you know, that creates the time and freedom. So since I've gone, you know, to my non profit after my student loans for forgiven, I wasn't under the gun to work full time anymore. I work part time now. I work three days a week. That gives me so much more freedom and time with my kids. And the way I teach people to do this is in a group practice structure. So it's really about how do you not only serve your community, but how do you train associates and pre licensed clinicians? How do you bill like that? How do you build up their caseloads, how do you provide quality supervision, how do you create a strong team culture? So there's a whole lot of like clinical supervision and organizational psychology that goes into this.

So they're making great money, they have freedom and they're serving their communities in ways that they didn't even dream of. Because there's so many different ways that you can give back and help your community while making this business sustainable for you and your family as well. In a nutshell.

In a nutshell.

It's the ultimate win. Win.

Yeah.

This is good. This is so good. What about the board of directors? That was something. Cause I've always been curious about starting a nonprofit as well. And I have learned so much from you, I have to say, in this arena because again, we're not taught this right. And there is a lot of misinformation out there or the information is so damn confusing, we just stop consuming it.

Yes.

What's the deal with the board of directors? Do they need one? How do they find people? How many people need to be on this board? What does that look like?

Yeah, that's the biggest difference between a for profit and a nonprofit. A for profit has an owner. A nonprofit is run by a board of directors. They're the people responsible for ensuring compliance with the irs. And that you're doing what you say you're doing. Right. If you say you're going to serve your community, the board is there to hold you responsible to that. And so the board is made up of a minimum of three people. And you can be on your board and you can be a W2 employee for your nonprofit. It's two different roles. You would have a conflict of interest policy in place. And the board is there essentially to not only help drive your mission and help you, they're there to help and serve. They're volunteers. But they're also there to hold you accountable. And a lot of people look at that as a scary thing, but it's a great thing. I'll tell you, having a board of directors for my nonprofit, I don't feel like the responsibility is all on me. They're there to help me. That's how I look at it. They're there to help me.

It's a support team.

It's a support team and a lot of people are worried, well, can't the board kick me out as the founder or as the CEO or executive director. Well, sure they can. Then they have to do the work. So who else is going to do it? It's not like they can kick you out and then, you know, they. The mission still has to keep going. And there's also things you can put in your bylaws to have protection for founders.

And you'd have to give them a good reason to kick you out. Right. I mean, I guess that's a valid fear, but how often does that actually happen? And when it does happen, did it happen for a good reason?

Exactly. And really, when that happens, we're talking about the nonprofits that generate millions and millions and millions of dollars in revenue. Right.

This is something shady is happening.

Right. We're talking about our little micro nonprofits over here that generate a lot of money. But you know, we're not a multi state international nonprofit that has lots of eyes on them. Right. And is doing something shady. We're here to truly serve and give access to mental health care therapists. We're in the helping profession because we want to help those who are marginalized. And when we don't do that, we feel like there's a gap.

Right. So true. So true. Where can therapists find you who are interested in starting their nonprofit?

Yeah, they can find me on my Facebook group. I give out lots of free resources and trainings every week. That's under non profit therapy leader on Instagram, same thing. And on my website. And people can DM me. I get people asking me all kinds of questions about this. And we also do free 45 minute consults and we go over the ins and outs of the program and we can really decide if it's a good fit for them.

Incredible. I'm going to link all of this for you guys in the show notes below. But again, Lauren Lawson. And what's the name of your Facebook group?

Thriving Impact building your nonprofit group practice.

Okay. Thriving Impact building your nonprofit group practice. Got it. I love it. Thank you so much, Lauren, for coming on and explaining all of this to us. Do you have any last words about anything that we talked about today about even therapists transitioning and moving into the coaching space about. Because it's all related. It's really about therapists outgrowing the office, which you have done time and time again and many different ways to ultimately have freedom and flexibility and security while continuing to serve our community. Whether that be in a nonprofit, whether that be creating your signature coaching program, whether that be writing a book, becoming a course creator, becoming a Podcaster. Like, there's so much that we can do as therapists, and we're just not taught all the things that we can do, but the potential for us, the opportunities for us, it's crazy. There's so many things. It's limitless.

Yeah, I think for anyone. Well, first of all, anyone wanting to start coaching. I wouldn't have been able to do this without your program. I mean it literally. You gave us every tool, and if you follow that, it will happen. You put the energy into that, it's going to happen. So I always recommend your program to everyone wanting to transition to coaching. And for the people wanting to start a nonprofit, I always tell them we are powerful. We just don't recognize that we hold that. We're so used to helping other people that we forget to help ourselves and realize we are business women. A lot of the people I talk with, women, women and men who have the capability of starting a nonprofit, they just have to believe in themselves.

They need to have the belief and the puzzle pieces. But if they have those two things together, I mean, this goes for adding coaching, too. You have the belief, you have the puzzle pieces. You have a mentor who can guide you step by step. This is very doable for you. I'll add just whatever you want to do, however you want to outgrow the office because there's so many different ways that you can give yourself proof that it's possible, give yourself evidence, surround yourself with evidence, read success stories, look at people who have done what you would like to accomplish, and instill that belief inside of you that this is possible. And you're a perfect example of that in the nonprofit world. You've been running this, like you said, for 13 years, right? That's incredible. So thank you, Lauren. I am so, so proud of you. All of the information for Lauren will be in the show notes below. And until next time, therapreneurs. I will see you on the next episode. Take care.

Thank you so much for listening to the thriving therapyneur podcast. I hope that this episode has inspired you to reduce burnout, work smarter, and see the freedom potential you have as a therapist. We would love to have you inside the Therapist to Coach Accelerator Facebook group where we have live trainings and cheat sheets on all things marketing, sales and adding coaching, ethically and legally. I am here cheering you on and I'll see you around.