The Secret To A Website That Converts Into Clients With Anna Walkers [Ep 12]

Welcome to the Thriving therapyneur podcast. The show for ambitious therapists who are ready to unapologetically make more money, scale their impact and build their dream coaching business. I'm Carly Hill, therapist turned coach turned CEO of a seven figure online business. I created the Thriving Therapeutic podcast because I'm obsessed with helping big hearted therapists outgrow the office and build successful and sustainable online businesses. So if you are wondering how you can continue to make an impact without sacrificing the life you love, welcome Therapeneur. This is exactly the place for you. Think of it like the business school we never had. I am so excited to dive in with you. Let's get started. Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Thriving Therapreneur podcast. I have Anna Walker with us today. It has been a long time since we've personally connected. I feel like we see each other all over social media all of the time and I definitely refer clients to you. But since we've chit chatted, it's been, gosh, maybe like two years, I wanna say. So I'm just so excited to have you here.

Yeah, a lot can happen in those two years.

Yeah, a lot can happen. You're pregnant. You're preparing for maternity leave. We're gonna talk about that off camera. We were just talking about. Anna has this fan blowing in her face and she said, you can't see my compression socks underneath my desk.

Pregnancy is very beautiful, very glamorous.

Yeah. Well, thanks for being here. We have a lot of mom listeners as well. So we'll definitely talk about prepping for maternity leave and balancing a business while doing so. But I want to take advantage of you being here because you are the website queen. I feel like when it comes to helping therapists and clinicians have an optimized website in their private practice. So if you don't mind, just tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got started in this. Because I know you're not a clinician, which was so fascinating for me to find out when we initially met because I guess I just assumed you were. So tell us.

Yeah, that happens a lot.

Yeah. Tell us how you got into this.

Absolutely, sure. Well, thank you so much for, for having me here. I'm just, like we were saying, just looking forward to chatting with you and sharing a little bit more. So about five years ago, I was, you know, years into my career in marketing and looking for a way to use my skills in a. In a way that felt more meaningful and more purposeful. I was working For I worked with. With small, kind of solopreneurs, very small organizations, all the way up to. I was currently supporting, like, a Fortune 100 software company. And you're just kind of helping rich people get richer. You're a cog in a wheel. And so I was really looking for an opportunity to use this skill set in a way that actually made more of a difference. And it was while I was looking for a therapist myself here in Nashville, Tennessee, that I was like, I think I can help these guys. It was while I was looking at the websites and scrolling psych today that I was like, I think my marketing brain could support these guys. I think there's. I see a gap that maybe I can help fill. But I also recognize there's so much nuance to this world. And I felt a little bit like an interloper. I still do some days. And so I really recognized that there was a lot of nuance that I needed to understand before I could ever really develop a point of view here. And so I spent many months. I had some friends who. Who were licensed that I went to college with. I reached back out to them. I joined Facebook groups, I read articles, I listened to podcasts like this one. This didn't exist yet, but I just. I really tried to understand, okay, if I think I can help these guys, you know, can I? And it was over a number of months that I really started to develop that point of view where I could, in fact, bring something that was helpful to these folks. So it was about five years ago that I started primarily writing copy. You know, you talk about copy all the time, Carly. Like it is. It's critical. You cannot market well without it. So that was very much sort of my bread and butter for a good amount of time, helping clinicians write copy for their websites in a way that Google was going to respect them and also that their clients were going to read it and be like, this is the therapist I've been looking for. That's the experience we always want our clients to have. And since then, over the last five years, have expanded into website design. We now offer Squarespace website templates. We have a course, we have a marketing coaching program. We have done for you services, kind of a full suite, but really started with seeing a gap, developing a point of view, and then over the last five years, really just refining that point of view. I'm constantly revisiting the strategy that we use to ensure that it's as up to date as it can be. And there's nothing cooler than hearing from our clients and students that they're actually getting those phone calls. I know you're the therapist for me. Filling their caseload, raising their fees, doing all the things that can happen on the back of good, successful marketing and especially a good, successful website.

Yeah, it's so important. I feel like you probably hear this all the time, just as I do, that therapists love what they do and they just wish more clients could find them. They feel like they're a buried treasure chest. And so we're not taught this stuff in school. And we do need experts like yourself who can help us fill in these gaps and spread our services. What do you feel like is some common challenges that therapists are coming to you with when it comes to one copywriting and messaging and then just their website in general?

Yeah, absolutely. You're so right that most clinicians just want to do the work that they were trained to do. Right. Like bring the clients, make sure they're the right fit. But, like, just let me do the work. You know, marketing feels like kind of certainly a necessary evil. And in some ways I get it. It is. For some clinicians, it is especially. But when it comes to copywriting, when it comes to having that experience where you get on the phone for a consult and someone's like, I already know your therapist for me, like, when can I get in with you? Right. In order to do that, it really, really does start with getting to know yourself. And I think a lot of clinicians sort of brush that off and they think, no, no, like I need to. I need to get into the actual to do list of marketing and checking the boxes and things like that. But I just continue to see how clinicians who get in touch with what it is they have to offer when they get in touch with what actually lights them up, where they do their best work, that everything can sort of flow out of that. So first some. Some sort of self knowledge and a willingness to lean into the fact that I'm going to call it, you are an expert. There is something you bring into the room that you do well with your clients. You've got to harness and figure out what that is. You are good at what you do. Like, if you do not believe that fundamentally in your marketing, we're going to have trouble attracting people that believe that. Right. So really starting there and then next. And I know you talk a ton about this, Carly, and you've got to know who you're talking to. You have got to know this ideal client on a deep, deep level. We are not talking about their presenting issues. We are not talking about their symptoms. We sure aren't talking about the modalities you're going to use to help them. Who is this person outside of the therapy room? Right. They're looking for someone that sees them as a person, not just their problems. Right. And so really getting in touch with who that client is, learning the language that they use. One of my favorite examples is I work with so many clinicians who love working with relational trauma. So often I'll say, great, you love working with relational trauma. Do your clients know they have that when they come to you for therapy? And often the answer is no.

Right.

And I say, okay, then you can market relational trauma all you want. But we're going to miss those folks because they don't know they have that. And so it's really, really getting in touch with what does my client need now early on when they, when they decide to reach out to a therapist and how do I meet them there and then invite them into the journey of the transformative work where they learn all these things and kind of experience that growth. And so good copywriting, really, it flows out of a knowledge of yourself and a willingness to lean into your expertise and a deep knowledge of the people that you're speaking to. If you know those two things, chances are we're on the right track.

Yeah. Almost knowing them better than they know themselves to a certain extent, like creepy know them like where you could write some copy and they're like, is she, did she bug my house? Yeah. Are you in my head?

Like, right.

How did she know? This jaw dropping realization that, wow, this therapist gets me. And so this can be difficult for therapists for sure. I think, especially if you're coming out of community mental health or, you know, a practice where you're used to seeing every single client under the sun. And you're also multi passionate, picking a hyper niche with a specific population, specific problems. Market research needs to be done and this can be done in so many different ways. But what do you recommend when it comes to market research and how they can figure out and know their client on this deep, deep level? Assuming they've already kind of decided who it is that they want to work with.

Yeah. And again, it's all about sort of meeting your client where they already are. So where is your client spending their time? What Instagrams are they following? What Facebook groups are they in? Like, truly sink down into the shoes of your ideal clients. Turn into her or him or them for the day. Where are they spending Their time, what are they struggling with, what conversations are they having, who are they speaking to? All of those kinds of things like that is really, that's the cool part and kind of the creepy part, quite frankly, of social media and things like that is all of that is readily accessible. It's on you to go seek that out. But the better you can do that. Those like, like you said, did you bug my house? Type of situation, we refer to that as sticky copy. The more specific the examples you use in your copy, the more laser focused you are, the more that client is going to be like, holy cow, this therapist knows what I'm struggling with. And you know what happens when you do that is you automatically elevate your value in the eyes of that client. So maybe they are therapists shopping and quite frankly they're allowed to do that. That's fine. But yeah, so Anna, she's, she's actually 175 an hour or whatever and this other therapist I was looking at is maybe a little bit cheaper, but she really seems to get it. They value that, right? Your ideal client values that. And so you're actually enhancing your value just by knowing that client well and reflecting back to them, their experience. You're letting them do the writing for you. But of course you have to go seek that out first.

Right? So Facebook groups, Googling Reddit threads, you.

Know, oh, Reddit threads, rich research there.

Forums, right, where you can actually hear, which is also why Facebook groups are good. You can hear in their own language how they are saying things. Also think about your previous clients. I would say, you know, the very first session that they came to you or even the consult call. Better yet, what were they saying they were struggling with?

Yeah, yeah. One of my favorite exercises for, for students is to go back to intake form. So you know that when you just think of like, oh, that ideal client, if I could just have that client cloned, my caseload would be happy. What that intake form say, what were they struggling with when they came to you? What did they say? What were their goals? All of those types of things that, like I said, you can allow them to do the writing for you because you're leaning on what they're already saying, either in an intake form or in a forum like Reddit or on a Facebook group, wherever that might be. You don't have to be a brilliant writer to do this work and to do it well, you just got to pay attention.

Yeah. And ChatGPT can help you with the brain dump process, but it may be, yes, a little Bit more calculated, if you will. Maybe not in their own words per se. I think getting people on the phone is a good thing too. Like if you can just reach out to friends, friends of friends, family members, and be like, hey, for market research purposes, would you mind hopping on a call and answering these 10 questions for me? And you can give them something in exchange, you know, like, hey, you know, 10 minute, you know, free advice session, or people love to have something in exchange, $10 Starbucks card, for example.

Absolutely. Sure.

And more data you can get, the better. Because this segues into SEO too, right? Like, we need to have strong copy and SEO keywords. So for someone who's maybe totally new to the world of SEO, like, let's back up and just talk about what SEO even means, what it is, why it's important, and then we can maybe talk about like some SEO tips and strategy pieces.

Sure, yeah. So search engine optimization. SEO is all about setting your marketing and particularly your website up in a way that is, as we say, Google friendly. Um, now Google has changed a lot. Google continues to change every single day. It's quite frankly getting smarter. But ultimately, Google decides. Their little algorithm decides what shows up when I go looking for trauma therapist in Nashville. Based on a whole myriad of different factors, 200 plus different factors, but some of them are primary. Right? And so we really lean into those primary pieces as part of optimizing your website. And in order to show Google, hey, Google, I do indeed offer trauma therapy. I am competent, I am authoritative, I am trustworthy when it comes to trauma therapy. Show me. And so there's lots of ways that we, that we do that. And that's why SEO is kind of this, if you've heard the term and aren't. Aren't aware of what it is, it probably just feels like kind of this wild, wild west. There is certainly a lot of pieces to it, but ultimately it's coming down to using your website to communicate to Google. I know what I'm talking about. I can meet the needs of the person searching for this, send them to me. And so there's lots of things we do there. It is grounded in copy. It is grounded in the words on the website. If you can do every other SEO thing, well, every single one of those 200 plus, if your copy is terrible, if your copy doesn't meet those standards for Google, you will not show up in results. It is grounded in the words that you use. The words are important even when it comes to SEO.

And SEO takes a while too, right? It takes, can take Six months to a year. So it's not this overnight strategy to help you get paying clients. It's great to have, especially when you first start your website and you do nail down your copy but don't expect for it to you to rank super high on Google in a month.

Right. That is such an important expectation to have. This is an investment in the long term marketing health of your practice. It is something that is going to get better over time. But yeah, we don't get to press launch today and show up on page one tomorrow. Like you said, six to 12 months is very, very normal. So it's important that your marketing strategy not just to be, well, I hope I get clients from Google, but that be one facet while you are driving traffic and getting eyeballs on that website in other ways as well. Especially in that building phase when the SEO is still sort of gaining that momentum.

So I know SEO is such a loaded topic, but is there any key factors or tips that a therapist needs to keep in mind when they're like, okay, like maybe I need to go back and audit what SEO keywords I had or do I even have SEO going? I don't know, somebody set up my website, where would they start?

Yeah, absolutely. A couple really key things to keep in mind. One, no surprise here, it comes back to knowing your clients. So that relational trauma example that I was using earlier, we have to be meeting your client at their point of need when they're going to Google. What is your ideal client actually typing into Google? It's not therapist who is passionate about, you know, whatever it is that you're passionate about. Right. They're searching for something related to the issue that they're experiencing. They are searching something related to the demographic that they identify with. They are, they might be. And we see this increasingly in today's market looking for a particular method or modality like brain spotting or emdr. We have got to know what your client is actually searching for because if we don't know that you are it, it's, it's a shot in the dark. You have absolutely no idea. Once we know that, then two things to keep in mind. One, essentially for everything, every one of those things you want to be ranking for anxiety, emdr, LGBTQ plus, whatever that might be, we need a page on your website dedicated to it. Long ago you could just have a services page as a therapist and it was this long bulleted list of like 20 things you could treat and 20 demographics could serve. We can't do that anymore. Google does not care about one single bulleted list. They care. If you want to focus in on brainspotting, you've got to have a page that says Google. This is what brainspotting is. This is how I do it. This is why I'm trustworthy. It's got to be dedicated to that. So that's how you should sort of think about the outline of your website is, okay, we call those specialty pages or method pages. How do I make sure that each one of these is dedicated to something my clients actually need? And then the other thing, you have to keep in mind that my clients and students groan. But it's got to happen. There needs to be enough there. 300 words is still technically the bare minimum that we would see on a website page. In order for Google to respect you these days, especially on pages like brain spotting or LGBTQ + or anxiety, and especially in saturated markets, we're looking at 750,000 plus words. Now I hear from clients all the time. My, you know, I don't. I want a short website. I want a clean, simple website. I hear you. There's a way to write 750 words in a really compelling and scannable and engaging way. But we just can't get away with a short paragraph about, are you struggling with anxiety Book free consult. That's just not going to do it in the eyes of Google. So those are the two things to keep in mind. A page dedicated to that topic or that keyword and then enough on that page in order to display your authority to Google.

Okay, this is great advice. This is so good. Yeah. Those specialty pages, it's really about passing the Google test when it comes to SEO. Right. Eyes of Google, you have to impress Google. You have to meet Google's requirements. And this by going to an expert who knows all of these requirements and can help you pass the Google test per se, is so invaluable. So what are other challenges that therapists experience? They copy is one. And we know most people don't have marketing issues. They have messaging issues. Right. So doing the market research, understanding their client inside and out, SEO is one. Is there any other main common challenges you. You see?

Yeah, um, I think the two other challenges that I see, especially in today's market. So we, it's really important to us. Just like it is for you, Carly. I know you're always constantly testing and making sure what you're putting out there for your students is actually working. We've paid attention over the last five years to what is working and what is not. And in the past, I would say 18 to 24 months. Two other things have become really, really clear. One is design. Five years ago, like I told you, my bread and butter was copy. Because if we had your copy right, we could get results. And that's still true. We still, content is still king. If you're going to invest or focus anywhere, I want it to be in the words. But we continue to see the way that design is, is influencing decisions. Especially because many of the students support, and I imagine many of the folks listening are wanting to focus on full fee and private pay clients. The thing is, in the last four years, no doubt, but in the last, you know, however many our clients, your clients have changed. They are fundamentally different. They have changed how they make decisions and they've also, their standards have risen. Your clients are exposed to fantastic marketing everywhere they go. They open up their Starbucks app and it's personalized to them. They, you know, they see beautiful ads in magazines. Like truly everything that they see is beautiful and they don't realize it, but their standards for marketing have gotten higher and higher and higher. And therapists have traditionally just kind of remained a little bit like that just hasn't been a top priority. Well, these days, your premium fee client who you know you're looking to attract a 200, 250 whatever session client, their standards for marketing are high. And if your practice can meet those standards, you're again creating sort of that inherent value, especially when compared to other clinicians. You know, the data shows us that people are making a decision, a split second judgment about your website and about you as a brand. That's actually, it's called the halo effect just based on your website design. And so it, it is more important than it's ever been. It's why we find that our squarespace website templates have been so powerful for folks because if you have a beautif and compelling and well messaged place to send someone, you are rising above the kind of the other more, maybe more traditional therapy websites out there. And there's, there's something to be said in your marketing effectiveness just because of that.

Right. So somebody went and created a free wix website versus somebody who purchased a template that was designed by a professional. You could, I mean this is where like ab testing comes into play. Right. But you could very well lose a client just from not having a beautiful website, even if your copy is good.

Yeah. And when you put it that way, it's like, yeah, it really can come down to that. So yeah, design we see be really, really Important. And the other thing that we have just, it's just the way that it is, is awareness. And what I mean by awareness, when we think about how a client decides to work with you, they, they go through three stages. They go through, the first stage is unaware. So they are unaware of you. They don't know that you exist. They just know they have a problem. Then they move to aware. All right? They learned about you. Just because they know that you're a therapist does not mean they're going to choose you as their therapist. They have to get to this final stage of sure before they decide to work with you. So your marketing has to guide people along this entire journey. You cannot just be that second half unaware to sure or aware to sure. We've got to get people from unaware to aware. That used to be easier than it is today. Five years ago, four years ago, even three years ago, when doing this work, we like updated your site. Today profile, we got your little website, we, you know, made a couple posts and the clients came in. It doesn't work that way anymore. And clients and clinicians that forget that their ongoing marketing work should be focused on helping people become aware of them are the clinicians who are frustrated with a lack of results and are often reporting a significant slowdown in the last couple of years because they haven't prioritized that piece of their marketing. And so we've really seen that clinicians need to anticipate taking a more active and ongoing role in their marketing than they used to. Your website is your foundation. It does not work in a vacuum. It is not working on autopilot 100% of the time. Now there are systems you can set up, but you have to be focused on people learning about you. That is that work will probably never stop. It can, it'll slow down as the other things like SEO and some of those more passive things increase. But that has to be a priority. And if it's not, you're just going to be frustrated, right?

Then you're going to have this beautiful website for nothing. You have to drive traffic to it. So if you SEO is not a place, you don't have paid advertising set up, whether that be a lot of clinicians do Google Ads locally, right? Or if you're doing coaching, a lot of people do Facebook and Instagram ads. But if you don't have these set up, then it comes down to staying top of mind, social media, organic marketing, consistency and getting them to know you, getting them to like you, getting them to trust you, getting them to Know that you can solve their problem. When you say this, I think about how saturated the industry is and how big social media is getting, which is probably why it's a lot harder these days. People are shopping around and people are skeptical and so to move them to shore, like you said, like, yes, they're ready to go. It takes a lot.

It does, it does. And I, I want to encourage folks that however you choose to help people become aware of you is up to you. You can double down on blogging, you double down on networking, double down on social media. Like this can take so many different forms. And I think if you hear from anyone, this is the one way to do it. Like, that's probably not true, but you can, you really can choose how to do this, but you can't not do it right. So it comes down to just what makes sense for you. And like you said, what can you be consistent with? Because it's going, that's what it requires. It requires consistency and a commitment to usually just one to two solid strategies over time that can truly create that awareness and sort of, that, that auto generating referral system that so many of us want, it doesn't happen on its own.

Yeah. So well said. And I think sometimes when clinicians are first starting off, they don't know what feels good to them or they don't know, maybe whatever's gonna feel good to them is whatever works. Right. So they are trying, you know, SEO or ads or in person networking or Instagram Reels or YouTube or TikTok or email marketing or funnels. Like they're, they're trying all of these different things. Maybe they do have a podcast or they have a book. Like you said, there's a million different ways that you can make yourself known in this space, but ultimately you want to double down on what's working.

Absolutely, absolutely. And the beautiful thing is you don't have to do all of those things in order to be successful. So maybe you do dabble, especially like you said, as you're figuring out what feels good to you. But don't resist maybe getting rid of a couple and really focusing on a handful. Most students that we support are focused on like two to three strategies that they do with excellence on a regular basis. So certainly dabble if you need to. I think that's a. Okay. And it's a good exercise because you learn a lot about yourself and usually your clients and what they respond to as well. But on an ongoing basis. Don't feel like you're going to have this. You know, mile long marketing to do list on a week to week basis that can get shorter over time as you really hone in on, like you said, what works and also what feels good.

What other trends do you see so, or not necessarily trends, but like how the market is changing. Because that was such great insight.

Yeah. The biggest one that we have seen be true and that, that our clients have been like, holy cow, that's so helpful is this reminder that your clients themselves are different. The clients we were marketing to pre Pandemic, for instance, are not the same clients we were marketing to today. And so their priorities have shifted. They prioritize things like accessibility, they prioritize things like personalization and convenience. Just moving to a self scheduling tool for your consultations can sometimes increase your conversions. So it's really about evolving with your clients and allowing your marketing and sort of your insight to evolve too. So I think that's really huge. And then of course technology is always changing. Like we talked about, SEO AI was certainly not on the scene a handful of years ago. So looking at how you can leverage those new tools, I have no concerns about AI replacing any of what we've discussed here. The human touch is still required, especially in this industry. But looking at how to streamline the work that you do, like you said, brain dumping. How can you use these tools to simplify your life to, you know, time block, do whatever you need to do. So paying attention to how your clients are changing and also how technology is changing and the other thing I'll say you mentioned sort of the saturation of this industry. No doubt there are. One of the reasons psych today isn't as effective as it used to be is because there's more and more pages of clinicians on psych today. And hallelujah, there's a need and I believe there are, there are clients out there for all of you. But when there are more clients, more, I'm sorry, more therapists out there, you have to distinguish yourself more than you used to. You don't just do therapy anymore. You do a particular type of therapy for a particular type of person solving a particular type of problem. We've come right back around to this whole niching and messaging thing. You cannot afford to go around being a generalist right now if your goal is to attract certainly full fee clients. So the importance of a niche, the importance of understanding what sets you apart, your unique differentiator, that knowledge is critical these days because it's the only way you're going to be standing out amongst the pages and pages and pages of therapists out there.

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. Especially if you're a private pay.

Yep.

You know, you need to be hyper, need near points of difference, need to be really apparent. And a good way to figure out your points of difference is study other clinicians. What do they believe that you don't believe? How do you do it differently than them? And then you can take that and bring it forth in your copy. But we talk about doing market research to understand your client inside and out, but also doing some, I say, quote, unquote, competitor research. Because I hate the word competition. I. I feel like there's no such thing. Like, we're all, you know, really, if somebody's doing what you're doing, they're on the same mission as you. But for example, purposes, study your competition or your interrupt competition.

Absolutely. Not only can that lend you certainly some inspiration sometimes, and you know, inspiration, not duplication, is a beautiful thing, but also to understand. Yeah, like, oh, I don't. I don't resonate with that. Awesome. Articulate that or that I don't serve that population or I do that differently. Those are. That is like kind of the breeding ground for you to establish a message that sets you apart. Where they do their great work with their right clients and you do your great work with your right client. There's room for everyone, but we've got to figure out where for sort of everyone, each person belongs so that a client can understand as well why you might be the better fit in some cases, because you are, and they are in other cases.

Let's switch gears for a second. Talk about you and how you're balancing in this season of life because you're helping so many clinicians with their website and copy and marketing and SEO, et cetera, et cetera. You're preparing for maternity leave. And I think a lot of these clinicians who are listening can probably relate to whether they're, you know, preparing for maternity leave or not. Just like juggling all of the different parts of being both a business owner and doing this thing we call life. So can you share any insight into. I want to hear first how you're preparing for maternity leave. Like, how have you set yourself up for this?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's funny to reflect on this maternity leave. So this is my second. I had my first in 2021, and it was just me and the business effectively had to just stop. And it just. I just took time off and that's okay. And it was a beautiful time. And we're all good and now things are different, the business is different. I have a team, you know, and there are things to keep moving while I'm out and that sort of thing. And so while I'm a creative and I love writing copy, I'm also just a very like systems minded person. And so I think one of the reasons I'm able to take this time away confidently and also, you know, what will actually be executed while I'm gone are systems. Systems for everything. Systems from what happens when someone completes our contact form. You know, my, my ops person is going to answer that. And here's what to say if you X, Y, Z, decision trees and systems around that to larger systems around sales and marketing and things like that. But systemizing as best we can. And I very much practice what I preach when it comes to simplifying marketing as well. We haven't done a lot of dabbling like you and I were discussing. I've always stayed pretty focused on just a handful of marketing strategies, but really just in this season, ensuring that I'm not falling victim to that shiny object syndrome, that I'm paying attention to what's working and I'm doubling down there and allowing ourselves to just prioritize what has worked and what continues to work and letting experimentation and things like that maybe be put on the back burner while we put the main priorities on, on kind of the, the front, the front burners, I suppose so systems and then really prioritizing what, what we need for the business to continue running and what we've seen work in the past.

Yeah, organizing SOPs, having your team. The beautiful thing is because you have a team and because you have digital products created and templates and courses, you can step away from the business and still make money because you're not trading dollars for hours.

Absolutely. It is a really cool thing. I've taken very few vacations. I should take more quite frankly, but I just took one, my husband. I went on a baby moon last month and so it was sort of a beta test for, for my team for, for maternity leave and we had some systems in place there. And yeah, you know, I'm sitting at the pool and income is, you know, revenue's coming in and the team is doing what they're doing. And then I returned to the office and they crushed it. They did a great job while I was out and was able to kind of seamlessly jump back in. So to know that I can be out and still paying my team, paying myself, business is running, people are taken Care of. We're meeting the standards that people have for us. Like, that's no small thing. And it's really only because of the team that I can. That I can do that.

Right. Well, and because of systems, too. Right? Like, it's because of your team and your systems. And I think this is just such a. A funny thing. Like, personally, I've experienced that, too. Like, I've been at the car wash getting, you know, all of these stripe notifications coming in, and I look around, and it's like this surreal moment, like you were sitting at the pool. Like, damn, this is real. Like, you know, because of my systems, because of my team, like, I can just do what I want to do when I want to do it, and I can still have income coming in. But we set it up, but then we almost don't believe it to be true. Or like, sometimes, you know, like you said, I need to take more vacations or, like, to step away. It can be a difficult thing to do. And I don't know if I'm, you know, speaking just for myself, because that's certainly something that's been difficult for me or if. If you feel that way, too. I kind of assumed maybe you did, knowing that.

Yes, absolutely.

Difficult to step away. Yeah. Yeah. But also, know anyone who's listening, it takes years sometimes. So to have realistic expectations when you're starting a business that you can't expect to be at the pool just getting stripe notifications six months, maybe a year into your business, because hiring a team, training a team, managing a team, and taking all the time to set up all of these operations. Like you said, your first maternity leave, you had to shut down the business.

Pretty much. Yeah.

It was. Well, but you didn't have these things set up and in place, right?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It was very early on and sort of passive income isn't. We all know passive income even requires work. But I had just launched my. Our first course when. When going on maternity leave, and I remember telling my husband, I would just love to get a stripe notification while I'm in labor. Like, that would just be so, you know, definitely my. I got one. I just got one. Definitely one of my most memorable, you know, kind of sales ever, because I was. It was a funnel that was working. But these days, to know that I have an entire, you know, team that I'm supporting, while I am truly 100 checked out from the business, it does not happen overnight. No way. Jose couldn't have done this a year in probably even two. But now here we are five years in, really confidently getting to step away that that's possible, that you can set up services and, and offers that allow you to not be hands on but in the seat in order to make money. There's, there's a lot of opportunity out there.

Yeah, there really is. What are your favorite ways to market? I'm curious because you said you're dabbling in different things. You've been at this for years. So when we talk about. I like how you said there's really no such thing as passive income. I like to call it like leveraged income. Right.

That's a good, good way to do it.

Yeah. When we talk about leveraged income, what are your favorite ways to find clients and market yourself?

Five years ago we launched a Facebook group. I launched a Facebook group. It's just me. I say we now, but it was just me then as truly an experiment. A coach kind of pushed me and I was like, you want me to do what now? Like, that was not on my bingo card. You want me to go live every day? That was when like going live in a Facebook group was like thus. And you could, you could do, you know. But I did it. I was like, well, I said I wanted to try, you know, I wanted to make this happen. So I'm going to try. The Facebook group is now, I think we're almost 17,000 therapists at the time of this recording, continues to be just the most fruitful place to make connections with people. We have content on autopilot, we ask questions. I still engage there. I love it. It's one of my favorite parts of my role is still getting to just spend time with people and get to know them and answer questions and provide resources. And of course, the community is large enough now that people have their own discussions amongst one another that are really fruitful and helpful. So the Facebook group, when leveraged well, has continued to be a wonderful marketing tool. Email marketing. It's a cornerstone of solid digital marketing and we continue to see that be true. So we have hundreds of automations set up and tagging and all of those kinds of things. I think I've missed maybe five weeks of weekly emails in my years just sharing insights and sharing resources and tips and case studies, whatever with my audience and staying connected there. So those have always sort of been our mainstays. Now in addition to that, we do run meta ads and have a wonderful agency that supports that and we get great results in this space with those. So we're running template ads, we're running ads to free Training to free downloads, all kinds of assets there. And then just recently in the last few months, we've stood up a Pinterest account and have a strategy going there, which is exciting. So excited to see how that serves us over the long term. So those are kind of our main ones. And then I have. I have goals to dabble further into things like pr, you know, being on podcasts like this, all those kinds of things in the coming. In the coming year or so. But those have been kind of our main ones.

Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing. And I think it just shows everyone how many different ways that you can market. Like we were speaking to earlier. And, you know, ads is usually something that people do a little bit later down the road, like, once they have really refined messaging and it makes sense to put some dollars behind it. Usually somebody doesn't out of the gates do that, although they totally could. Right. And so there's different kind of stages. I love that you said Facebook group and holy moly. How much it's grown. But that's definitely. Yeah. One of my main strategies as well, and something that I also teach my paying clients. It's crazy to think Facebook is still the number one platform.

Absolutely. Especially in this. In this niche. And I know that you serve clients that are serving other niches as well, but Facebook groups are still just incredibly popular and when done well, can be a really fun place to show up, learn about, connect to, and sell to your audience in a way that feels very natural. I've never felt slimy or salesy showing up there. You know, it's very authentic. People have gotten to know me, and I think it's one of the reasons we've been able to, you know, build what we have.

Yeah. Well, you're killing the game. It's so fun to watch you and support you and be alongside you helping clinicians. I've just respected you. I think the first time that we connected, I had connected with someone else, and I was like, I don't know. Like, I just don't believe in this, like, competition. Like, I. I just really want to hear what you're doing. Like, can we just, like, talk and. And hang out? And that's exactly what. What we did. And you aligned with me.

I remember that.

Yeah. On that way as well. So that's what I mean by, like, I've always just kind of respected the work that you're doing and love how you're helping so many therapists because we just need it. We're not taught this stuff in school.

So, yeah.

Where can everyone find you inside your Facebook group? Tell us the name of that.

Yes, that one. The Get Booked out community. So Get Booked Out Modern marketing for therapists and counselors is where you can find us there. Everything and anything that we have talked about here you can learn about on our website, walkerstrategyco.com But, Carly, thank you for that. It goes both ways. You're also crushing it, and it's also a pleasure to get to send people to you. You are helping clinicians in a way that very few others are and doing it very, very well. So I am just. I'm your biggest cheerleader. I. You're one of my first Instagram stories, people, because I'm like, what's Carly up to? What's she Justin this week? Um, so I just appreciate reaching out. It's an honor to have spent this time with you.

Yeah. Thank you so much. All right, everyone, go follow Anna. And until next time on the Thriving Therapy newer podcast, take care. Thank you so much for listening to the Thriving Therapy newer podcast. I hope that this episode has inspired you to reduce burnout, work smarter, and see the freedom potential you have as a therapist. We would love to have you inside Therapy Therapist to coach, accelerator, Facebook group, where we have live trainings and cheat sheets on all things marketing, sales, and adding coaching, ethically and legally. I am here cheering you on, and I'll see you around.