Therapist Turned Coach: Behind the Scenes of a Coaching Call [Ep 30]

Welcome to the Thriving therapyneur podcast. The show for ambitious therapists who are ready to unapologetically make more money, scale their impact and build their dream coaching business. I'm Carly Hill, therapist turned coach turned CEO of a seven figure online business. I created the Thriving therapeutic podcast because I'm obsessed with helping big hearted therapists outgrow the office and build successful and sustainable online businesses. So if you are wondering how you can continue to make an impact without sacrificing the life you love, welcome. Therapeneur. This is exactly the place for you. Think of it like the business school we never had. I am so excited to dive in with you. Let's get started. Welcome back to another episode of the Thriving Therapy newer podcast. I'm your host, Carly Hill and today you are in for a special treat. I was feeling generous. I post it to my community surprise. I am doing a free hot seat coaching session for you all. And everybody hopped on zoom and we went down the line and boom, boom, boom. We answered questions all about coaching. We had a lot of questions on niching. I know this is something that people struggle with at the beginning of their journey. I had quite a few of my current clients hop on to take the opportunity to get coached as well. So I hope you enjoy an inside sneak peek into what it looks like to have support along your journey of adding coaching. Doing coaching sessions with our clients is something that we take a lot of pride in because we offer so much support inside the therapist to coach accelerator community. It's not just me. I have a whole tribe and team of support coaches guiding you. Copywriting coaches, mindset coaches, sales coaches, one to one coaches. If you have a question in between coaching calls, you can also get support. Basically, anytime you have a question, it can get answered. Of course, that depends on the different tiers and level of support that you invest in. We have many different options to support your needs and your budget. So without further ado, take a listen into questions. All right, therapreneurs, let's do some coaching. Haley, kick us off.

All right, thanks so much for doing this. I'm really excited for the chance to get some coaching from you. Uh, so I have a niche question if you're cool with that. I know you're the niche queen, so I have, I've actually, I've gone on a call with Tanya and I've watched a bunch of your trainings and I've gotten just mixed information, mixed feedback about whether my niche is appropriate or not. So figured I'd run it by you. So essentially I want to work with women who have a chronic health condition and help them recover from health anxiety. And so I guess my question here is, is that too much of a medical necessity? And like, I've worked with this issue in my private practice. I've seen a lot of success. But what I've seen success with is through coaching. And what we're doing to recover from the health anxiety portion is coaching. It's very skills based, behavior based. It isn't therapy per se. And like, I mean, I have a coaching certification, I've gone to school for counseling, I have two master's degrees. I know the difference very clearly. I'm just nervous that because it's called health anxiety, which is not a DSM diagnosis, it's just a term. But I'm worried that makes it sound like too much of a medical necessity and it might get me in trouble. So I'm curious about your thoughts.

Yeah, good question. What it sounds like and what it actually is is different. We do not want our clients to be confused. But regardless, you're going to get them on a consult call before you sign them up into your program or your private practice, if you have one. So as long as you are clear and you understand the difference. Am I treating medical necessity or is this a more situational, non clinical, less severe problem? That's your answer to throw a wrench in it and confuse you a little bit. Somebody could be meeting criteria for a DSM diagnosis and still be a fit for a coaching program. The question is, are we treating them for that DSM diagnosis? We do not have to be everybody's therapist. They could have their own therapist and they could be getting treatment for DSM diagnosis. But in your coaching program, it's almost as if you're a teacher and you're providing that psychoeducation. Honestly, it's really hard to go into medical necessity. Even if you tried with the group coaching model and having a course where you're hopping on one to two one hour group coaching calls a week and doing hot seat coaching like so where they're asking you questions about what they're learning and implementing inside your course. Right. Makes sense.

Yeah, definitely. I think it just gets fuzzy because, you know, one of the things that we try to get on top of is like panic attacks, for example, which is something that could arguably be treating medical necessity. But a lot of what is treating the panic attacks is the psychoeducation. It's the skills training, it's the toolkit that we put together, like the actual physical toolkit, things like that. So like things that are totally teachable via a course, they're totally manageable in a group coaching, Q and A session, et cetera. But it's just like because of what the experience is, I'm like, is this too hairy? Is it too blurry of a line?

Yeah, I mean, I actually always give the example like, hey, if you're treating panic attacks, they have agoraphobia, they can't leave the house. Like this is more a medical necessity. And they probably do need a therapist if they have anxiety standing up in the workplace, going to the grocery store, taking their kids to the park. Like this is a more situational, non clinical problem. So to be honest, it is a little bit hairy. It doesn't mean that it can't be navigated again. You don't want your clients to be confused. And I think you're really going to have to use their clinical discretion when you get them on a consult call. And you're going to have to have a screening process, but it can be done. And you may want to even have a requirement that they be seeing their own therapist while they're in your coaching program. Or maybe they're fresh out of therapy, they've hit a plateau. This is next level for them. Just make sure you're covering your bases. But it doesn't mean that it can't be done.

Yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking about having that requirement of co occurring therapy for sure to address the trauma piece because usually these people have trauma, which is not something I would want to be working with in a coaching capacity at all.

Yeah, okay, you got it. You can do it. It's a need. Any other questions, Hayley?

I don't think so. I still, I'm. I don't feel landed, but I don't really know what else to ask to create more clarity either, so.

Okay, well, now that you're giving your the yourself the permission slip that you can do this now, you can move forward and actually draft out a niche statement if you haven't done so already.

Yeah, definitely.

Okay, I'll circle back to you if something else comes up. Good question.

Thank you.

You're welcome. Talia, Hello.

So my question is in regards to. I have two course ideas. My niche is in related to relationship anxiety and dating anxiety. And one of the courses I would say is like the lower hanging Fruit is about like navigating breakups, healing from breakups, and then the more signature course offering is about learning how to embrace and accept and love yourself. In your singleness. And so I think the, the two differences on where I'm getting stuck on one first question, I know it's best to sell one product and sell it well before you try and have lots of different products. And so one, the signature offering definitely lights me up more. And so that was kind of where I was leaning towards putting my work in towards first and then going towards the other avenue of the breakup one after I've, you know, sold the signature course a lot. And so that's one part that I would love your feedback on and then the other part is what I am selling in this transformation and really speaking to what my client desires. So the singleness accepting your singleness course is. It's called becoming the one before finding the one. So I just was wondering based off that title, it's not a hundred percent set in stone. Does it sound like I am promising within this transformation that I'm going to give them the one? Because obviously I can't promise a partner to them and so I'm just wanting that feedback too.

I don't think you need two programs. I think they're one and the same. I think you should market yourself as a breakup coach and I think that people are always buying their way out of a problem. And loving yourself while you're being single is not as pressing of a problem. It's more of a nice to have and it's an addition to their life. They're not going to jump out of their seat to urgently and eagerly pay you. Versus when they are suffering in pain from a breakup. When they are suffering in pain from a breakup. And that is the first thing that you can address with them. You can then have in your course how they can love themselves when they're single. It doesn't have to be two separate things, but the entry point for you is going to be when they're recovering from breakup. Yeah. You can also have low ticket items and lead magnets where they can learn to love themselves when they're single, but it can send them into your breakup program. Okay, so the name of your program may change. With that being said, the name of your program is really near. It doesn't matter the name of your program. I mean we want it to be clear and concise, not cutesy and clever. But the name of your Facebook group or let's say even your Instagram handle. Like we would want that to be more niche specific if possible. The name of your program could be a little bit more generic. You are never going to promise someone something that you can't deliver. But you do need to speak to the big outcome. We need to sell them on what they want and we need to give them what they need. It's like giving our dog medicine. They don't want the pill, they want the peanut butter. What's the peanut butter for your clients?

Yeah, yeah, that's really helpful because I definitely feel the pain point is like when you're in a breakup, you're literally scrolling through TikTok, all these different self help books, podcasts, all that they're searching for answers so badly and they want to find a way to help this healing. And so that is definitely why I felt that was the bigger pain point. But I was doing market research interviews and I was coming along clients and people that were like in my audience that they weren't going through a breakup currently. And so that's why they initially hadn't opted in for the market research interview or anything. They were just like struggling in their single illness and not being able to find someone. And the dating apps and that day to day, like being in your late 30s and trying to date and find.

The one, they can still be a fit for your program. So there's going to be different entry points of where they are on their journey.

Okay.

It'll be the people who are suffering in pain from their breakup and it will also be the people who are not fresh out of their breakup that you just described. Both could be a fit for your program. Okay. But it doesn't have to be two separate programs. You're gonna create unnecessary extra work for yourself. Yeah.

That helps a lot.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome, Ashley. Hey, Carly.

I'm currently in your program, but I'm in the self paced course. I've worked with my coach on niche and I've tried to start my Facebook group, but I keep coming back to not feeling solid on my niche. My niche. I'm currently working with black female professionals. They can be clinicians or teachers or nurses. So like helping professionals. And right now it's overcoming limiting beliefs, self doubt, burnout, so they can build aligned, purpose driven careers with confidence and balance. So I've been going back and forth with, is this enough? Are they going to want to buy my services? Similar to what you just said, is it a severe problem? And my Facebook group is holistic wellness Blueprint for helping Professionals. But I've been going back and forth again with do I need to work with therapists? Do I need to work with clinicians? Do I need to work with Helping professionals. And I'm just stuck because I also want to infuse mindfulness and yoga and sound work and breath work into it as well. So with mindset and business strategy and I just don't want to feel all over the place. And I do feel all over the place. I have one client that I'm working with that I actually work with. And that's not what we're doing. It's more of the business strategy, but she's not doing.

Tell me more about the business strategy.

So I'm working with her on marketing, how to break through the limiting beliefs.

Are these entrepreneur healthcare providers?

Yeah, she's a therapist wanting to switch from her 9 to 5 to private practice. So I'm helping her with the blocks.

Is that clear in your marketing that you're helping entrepreneur healthcare providers?

No, because I keep going back and forth with is that what I really want to do?

Well, you just told me you want to do mindset and business and you're doing business strategy now. And if you like it and this is your vibe, then you. We need to change your messaging to be entrepreneur healthcare professionals because this is going to be very different from a nurse who's working at the hospital or a teacher versus a therapist being in private practice. So I do think that we need to think about your population a little bit more. Your process isn't going to change. So all the mindfulness and the breath work, love it, that can stay regardless. But we also need to think about what the burnout is costing them. Why are they going to buy their way out of the burnout? Is it impacting their relationships? What type of relationships are they trying to move up in their career? Is it impacting leadership? This is probably not going to be the entrepreneurs. This is probably going to be the people who are in the corporate world. So if we can start with the population and dial in, who exactly is she? For example, always create your niche or your signature program with one person in mind. So much so that you give her a fake name or him. And if it is this client that you're working with, let's just create it around her. If this is your vibe and you like it, okay, so you're on the right track. You did nothing wrong. But we're always optimizing. This is why market research never ends. So you're taking the feedback of what you're noticing. Yay. And we're just going to add onto it and refine it a little bit more.

And is it okay? Well, is it okay that with some Clients, they might not want the mindfulness. Well, not the mind. They might not want the holistic piece, but they might just want the business strategy. And it's okay to have like branches of my program.

Yeah, okay.

Because that's what I'm thinking is going to happen. Some folks might just want the strategy, the business strategy. Some people might want the whole thing or vice versa. And I just been toilet.

I have a mindset call every Wednesday. Some clients don't come to it. I also have mindset trainings. Personally, I was the type of person where I was so sick of mindset stuff because I was investing in business coaching programs and all they were giving me were was mindset. And I was like, dude, I'm doing my own mindset stuff. It's always helpful, but get me the strategy. I need my checklist. I need my step by step. So when I created the therapist to coach accelerator, I actually had zero mindset stuff in it. And it was straight business. Then I added mindset stuff. But people can pick and choose of what they like. It's smart and wise of you to have both. So take this, possibly listen to the recording, go back to your coach, let's workshop your niche statement a little bit more and have a hard think about the client that you're working with. If this is it, if this feels good to you, let's change your messaging to reflect the work that you're currently doing. Okay?

Thank you.

Okay. You're welcome. Susie. Hi, Carly. Hi.

I officially start your program in a few weeks in December. I've been diving in and looking at stuff and getting a little nervous and same as everyone else in the called niche statement. I guess the real stressful thing and I very similar to Haley's question my gut and what I my vibe is and what my passion has been lately from personal is helping women. And this is where because I I have the niche statement and helping women in midlife, going through perimenopause symptoms, navigating all the array of symptoms, living stronger, healthier, better life. But perimenopause symptoms is a laundry list. So when I think of what words to put in there, it could be anxious, it could be fatigue, it could be a thousand things. Um, so is that too broad? And how do I tailor that down?

Buyer niche, love it, seen it work really well. There's a lot of tangibles with it. We name them all. Hot flashes, sleep, overthinking. I mean, name the laundry list out.

Okay.

And this falls in more of like a wellness coach because I know you have, like, divided up business type of coach. And. And I feel like I'm a therapist. I'm a, you know, lcsw.

I don't.

But I. I can guide people on their. The anxious, the depressed symptoms that come along with perimenopause and all the strategies that can come along with the hot flashes and other things. And is that in my.

Yeah. Health and wellness.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Menopause coach. Okay. Perimenopause coach.

And of course, now my algorithm's bringing me to a whole bunch of coaching programs specifically for menopause. And of course, I'm investing in your signature program. But is it also worth me diving into a specific menopause program to help coaches in that area?

If you feel you need more training in that area, it cannot hurt.

Right.

But I want you to be intentional with your time, regardless of you investing or not. We do want to do competitive market research. And I hate the word competition, but I use it for teaching purposes because if somebody's doing the same thing that you're doing, then they're on the same mission. And that's a beautiful thing. Right. That's why I hate the word competition. But you do need to study other coaches who are doing what you're doing to help you stand out in the saturated market and become the Beyonce of your space, is what I call it. So you need to look at, well, what are they doing? And what do you not like that they're doing? Or what do you like that they're doing? What can you take a stance for? So it's good that the algorithm is pushing all of these to you, and you should make a list of all your competitors, and you should start to study their Instagrams, their landing pages. They've probably done market research. You can use it for inspiration, but scroll with intention because it can be easy to slip into the trap of intimidation. Imposter syndrome. Oh, wow, they're already doing this. They're so successful. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And a lot of them focus on fitness, on the exercise. A lot of them are trainers, personal trainers, or nurses. So I think that's where I will stand out, because a lot of them don't touch on the mental health part that affects perimenopause, which is huge.

Yeah.

People don't.

Yeah, yeah. There you go. You got it. There's no reason to be nervous.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Nervousness and excitement show up the same way neurologically in our brain. We know that. Right. So maybe you're just really excited because you're dying.

Yeah.

Yeah, thanks. Good. Reframe. Okay, Jamie.

Okay.

I am new to your information, and it feels like a literal fire hose for me right now. I am set to graduate with as an LAC. I'll start. I mean, I'll graduate in December. I'm 57, so, like, you know, older in my classes and stuff like that, but lived a little bit of life. So I'm wondering, do I just need to sit back and absorb a lot of this? Everything feels new, like, even the acronyms. I'm like, googling to figure out what all the acronyms are and things like that. Where would you suggest I start? Like, I'm not even, you know, I've done my internship, but I'm not even working yet. Don't have a job, but I don't feel like I have a lot of time to be piddling here either. Where would you suggest I start for where I am?

Yeah, Good question. Congratulations. It's never too late to go after our goals. There's no expiration date on our goals. Good for you.

Thank you.

Do you want to start a private practice or do you want to start a coaching business? I think it's the question you need to ask yourself. I usually determine free licensed therapist only for the reason that I really want you to be in integrity when you're creating a signature coaching program. And I sure as shit did not know who I wanted to help when I just graduated grad school. I thought I knew, but I really needed a lot more experience under my belt to know who I like to help who I didn't like to help to find my niche. I mean, I was solving every problem under the sun. I was working in community mental health, and it was a lot, but I don't regret it for that reason. And then you can feel really confident being the Beyonce of your space, claiming the identity that you're stepping into, especially when you become omnipresent in the online world, which is what I teach. So if you know that already who you want to work with and you're confident in that because you do have a lot of life experience and maybe you are your own ideal client and you walk through something, then I would welcome you into creating a signature coaching program. If you do not know and you want to get more experience, then I would encourage you maybe to go the route of starting a private practice as a therapist. Correct?

I don't know exactly. Like, I've avoided the things that I feel like are my natural experiences and the things I've worked through. I've kind of avoided that because it's often so triggering and different things in the therapy room. And so I've gone towards things that are just easier for me. I raised seven children, taught kindergarten for 12 years. Play therapy made a perfect sense for me. That was easy. It avoided a lot of the other things. But as I'm getting closer to the end, I'm like, oh, I still find myself naturally in conversations and just through crossing paths with people, I still end up relating to some other, like autonomy and women losing themselves, particularly in marriage and things like that is the natural bent for me. The other thing is we're easier. So I don't. I think I'm going to end up towards the more natural life experiences. That's really where my gut and heart kind of get activated with things.

Yeah. But do some research. And to answer your question, yes, hang out and absorb. There's tons of resources for you to taken. If you want to start a private practice, I can send you to a few people where you can absorb their free resources. If you haven't read my book yet, the Therapreneur book, I would recommend getting that. And this will shed some light into starting a coaching business if and when that's the right move for you. And also dialing in your niche and brainstorming who you want to work with a little bit more. But for now, I think you're being very proactive and I think you're in a good place to be, to just be in a learning state.

Okay.

Thank you.

You're welcome. Haley, go ahead.

Awesome.

Thanks.

Okay, so I've been just kind of stewing on everything, and I wanted to ask, like, what have you seen work for people who create a program for an issue that can be treated clinically? Like people who are doing postpartum depression coaching or PTSD coaching, things like that. Like, what have you seen work in those cases where it's an issue that has different capacities or like, I guess, different needs? Like some. Some of their needs need to be met by a therapist, but others need more coaching. Does that question make sense?

Yeah. The one that's coming to the top of my brain right now is postpartum moms with anxiety, intrusive thoughts.

Yeah, I've seen it work. Well, so I guess my question is like, in terms of marketing, in terms of, you know, distilling down what issues you're actually targeting within the coaching program to ensure that it's clear that it isn't therapy. Like, how have you seen people who are using or I guess working with issues like this, that maybe have a clinical component, but it's not all clinical. Like, what have you seen work for them in terms of making that discernment? Like, I know a couple questions ago, you were talking about all the tangibles. I think it was with Susie's question about perimenopause and, you know, thinking about health anxiety. There are so many, you know, tangibles there that coaching helps people work through, like the maintaining behaviors and the avoidance behaviors and just all of, like, the things they're actually doing in their lives that are perpetuating the problem that can be stopped without needing to get into reprocessing deep trauma and things like that. So I guess, does it make sense when you're working with an issue that might have a clinical component but isn't all clinical? Does it make sense to really harp on those tangible specifics? Like, how do we differentiate in marketing to make sure it's really clear?

It always makes sense, no matter what niche or what situation, to harp on the tangibles, measurable and tangible? I think, and I say this with love, you're getting a little bit in your head about all of the what ifs, and you're still not accepting the answer fully that this can be done. And there's fear that I'm sensing rightfully. So I want you to create your outline. What are the six to eight milestones that your ideal client has to walk through to get from problem to solution? That's what you talk about in your program. Okay.

Yeah, and I've already got that. I mean, that I'm super clear on. It's really just like, it is fear. It is totally fear that, like, I'm gonna get in trouble for doing this.

Yeah. The ethical gods are not going to come after you, I promise. And you're. You're going to have the peace of mind that you're doing it the right way. If you follow my blueprint of protecting your license, keeping everything separate, terms and conditions, privacy policy disclaimer, your coaching contract. It has mandated reporting, it has informed consent. All of that is good to go. Plus, you're doing your due diligence with these consultation calls and assessment, and you have that maybe second layer of that identifier that we talked about where, you know, they have to have had therapy, they're fresh out of it, or they have a therapist. You're not going to take someone who is super high risk. You're just not. You're going to refer them out or you're going to plot them in your private practice.

Yeah.

So the Question that you're really asking me is like, can I still do this? Am I capable? Are you sure? And yes, you're capable.

Okay, thank you. Yeah, I feel landed now. I appreciate that.

Natalie, Hi.

I have several questions. I actually been on your mailing for a while, but I haven't really paid attention until recently. Just busy life stuff. But I have a coaching program laid out. I have done an abbreviated version locally in person. Got excellent feedback. I'm ready to do kind of an online program for people anywhere. A lot of them are personal contacts and stuff that I already have paying attention to my stuff. But so I would like to do like a small sample group online starting in January, late January. So I'm ready to take the program to being paid and also online. But I want to be really solid in how I do it at least as best as possible. I mean, I don't have to have every all the ducks in a row right now because again, it's kind of like a small sample. But what I'm wondering, and this might be in your therapreneur book that I intend to order. But what needs to be in my coaching contract. And I'm also interested in like the cheapest ways to run the online course because like I have Google Workspace, I could use that, but I'm not quite sure I'm tech challenged. I don't learn quickly. So I kind of want something that's pretty easy and also just kind of how to the cheapest way to advertise and to screen people to be ready for the program to make sure they're appropriate. So.

Okay, are you looking for support? Are you going to do it yourself?

I mostly right now need to do it myself because of time investment, because of kids and everything.

Okay. So we have to reverse engineer your launch plan.

Okay.

You need to definitely binge read my book and you probably want to get my $37 bundle that's going to give you a bunch of trainings that can answer some of these questions. Because you just kind of asked me like a hundred questions in one.

Yeah.

Which I could answer. Which is why I asked you like, do you want support or are you going to DIY this? Because all the hundred questions and the one question that you ask is inside the therapist to coach accelerator course there is lower investment options. So if you think that you can invest, but maybe you can. I think it would be worth hopping on a 45 minute consult call with my team where they can lay out the investment options for you and the payment plans and the different tiers. If you heard some of my clients speak like some of them are in the self paced course and some of them are in the full blown course, there's different options for you, so don't cross it off. If it's for you, cool. If it's not, get my book. Get the 37 bundle. So you have some sort of support as you're moving through this on a high level. You need to reverse engineer your launch plan. So if you want to take clients in January, you need to start creating a marketing plan where you're putting content out and you're inviting them on console calls. You need to have conversations. Conversations equal conversions. So how are you going to get people to raise their hand?

Okay.

As far as your course goes, the cheapest way is free through Google Drive or Google Classroom and you can just email it to your clients if you want them to have a login. Portable teachable is probably the cheapest at 60 bucks a month.

Okay. Yeah, I would love that. But I was, I'm wondering, I kind of looked at teachable, but I was concerned that maybe I need a HIPAA compliant platform.

Not for coaching.

Okay.

Yeah. Your other question was what needs to be in my paperwork? So this is highly important. If you invest in anything, invest in this.

Okay.

Because you need to make sure you're protecting your license. You hire an attorney separately. I mean, it's going to cost you thousands of dollars. Reach out to my team because I have something that I haven't actually announced to the public yet, which is just a separate protecting your license piece. So if that's all you need is the paperwork, then I give you the coaching contracts that are attorney approved privacy policy disclaimer terms and conditions that need to be on your website. And then there's also trainings on the difference between therapy and coaching. There's also trainings on citing AI and HIPAA from my attorney as well. It's less than $1,000.

Okay. And so I just need to reach out to the team to ask about that.

Yes.

Okay.

We'll help you.

And it'll be less than a thousand for learning about that.

Okay.

Yes.

Okay. Yeah, that's definitely a place where I've gotten stuck.

Happy launching.

Thank you.

You're welcome. Mandy.

Hi.

Hi.

Hi.

My, my question is again, it's about. I provide therapy. I'm a psychotherapist to little kids, quirky little kids. But I find myself coaching their parents a lot. And I know in little kid therapy it's always family related, but I realize that I Am saying the same thing to all of the families. And so coaching parents while I'm seeing their kids, is that something you've seen before? Do you think that? I don't know what I think about that. I'm already doing it, so I might as well create the course. I've started doing that.

What are your thoughts? Yes. Yeah. So while you're seeing the kids can be a little bit tricky, but if someone else is seeing the kid and the kid is not your client, then it's going to be easier to navigate. This doesn't mean that it can't be done. It kind of depends on the problem that you're solving because are you treating the kid for medical necessity? Like, technically, the kid is your client, not the parent. But in the same breath, the parent is your client. If we're putting on our clinical hat. Right. So there's no. But it's a little slimy. That's the.

That's the tricky part is I need the parents to know all of this stuff and then come and join our therapeutic situation. Like our therapeutic sessions. The things that I teach the kids. The parents need all that information and.

Yeah, but you can't take them from therapeutic coaching or coaching to therapy. What I would do if I were you is I would create a program for parents.

Yep.

But I would not. There's plenty of parents out there.

Yeah.

So network with other therapists who are seeing the kids, and then you take the parents on, and then you guys can even collaborate together. Gotcha.

And then the kids who I'm already seeing, I essentially just need to say, here's this course. Please do it.

Yeah. So for the kids that you're already seeing, the parents, you could offer them the recorded course alone, but I would not offer them the coaching component. For the parents of the kids who you are not seeing, you can offer them the course and the coaching component in your private practice paperwork and your informed consent. You need to add a clause about releasing the power differential so that parents do not think that they have to purchase said recorded course in order to get X, Y, Z results in therapy. It's just like if you have a brick and mortar therapy office and you sell essential oils at your front desk. You have good rapport with client. They're having sleep issues. Now all of a sudden they feel pressured that they need to buy the lavender, but they really don't because it's money's tight for them. You need to have in your paperwork that you're releasing the power differential.

And that's just Acknowledging that there is a potential for the feeling that there's a power differential.

Yes. You could even get ChatGPT to help you with this clause.

Yeah.

If you invest in the therapist to coach accelerator. I have a. A clause already written up. But on a high level, that's what you need to do. Right.

Thank you for that differentiation because this has been. I've got your book been rolling this around and it's become more and more clear. But this was this little frictiony part.

That I couldn't quite.

Yeah.

So just the course, it makes sense. And I'm not an attorney. This isn't legal advice, but. Oh.

100.

What I would recommend just so you're not getting yourself into a sticky situation and there is no confusion.

Right.

Oh, I'm not interested in selling something to the parents of kids that I'm seeing. I'd rather have people come into that course and then maybe opt for therapy afterwards.

Well, you can't take them from coaching to therapy, but the child can't take them.

Yeah, that's the tricky part.

It's the same situation. I would keep it separate. Just work with parents who you're not seeing the kid. And if you're seeing the kid, sell them only the recorded course as psychoeducation. With having the paperwork to release. Yes, with psychoeducation to release the power differential. Your paperwork.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate this. It's been in my head a long time.

You're welcome. Happy to help. Isn't this fun, everyone? This is what we do every single week. My clients. It's my favorite part of the week. All right. Okay. Sky blue, you're up. Hi. I am new to you, but I've been lurking for a little while. Uh, I'm a sex therapist, a licensed sex therapist. And I've started a intimacy and sex coaching business. And I have. I have a really good foundation. I just haven't been able to monetize. I did a launch a few weeks ago of a course for men who want more sex in their relationships and got a lot of traffic, got a lot of interest, but didn't make any sales. So my first question is about, like conversion, including like one on one coaching. I've had several calls with folks, but no conversions. So I'm just wondering, like, what's the price of your program? The program was 3.97 and I offered a 50% discount because at 397. Okay, so in high ticket sales, which is what I teach specifically, my clients start off 1,000 to $2,000. And then we double it from there in high ticket sales, specifically, average close rate, meaning you get them on the call and then you convert, is 20%. Anything above 20%, you're a power closer. Okay. Average conversion rates in general in the coaching space is 3%. So how big is your audience? How many calls did you actually get for a $397 course? You're just selling a course. There's no coaching. It's just a digital product. Is that correct? Um, so it was a beta course, so I was gonna make it as I. As I went with, like a group coaching component. So each week. Too low.397 is way too low. There's something to be said about a product being too low and too high. We need to find a sweet spot. It's like if you have a serious problem and somebody's like, you know, here, I can get rid of this serious problem for you for 10 bucks, you're going to be like, yeah, right. You know, they're actually going to go invest $1,000 to solve their problem, and that's going to feel good to them. So I would raise your investment. We need to assess your offer stack. What are all the deliverables inside? So that perceived value is way above $1200 if that's what you're going to sell it at. And they're like, wow, I'm getting all of this for this? Sign me up. But we also need to consider the objections that you're getting. Is it time? Is it money? Is it need to talk to partner? So there's a bit of the sales piece that probably needs to be tightened up, but it could be, again, the number of console calls that you got. It could be the price of your program, it could be the deliverables inside your program. There's so many nuances that we would have to assess to puzzle piece together and reverse engineer what possibly went wrong.

Right.

But it is a viable marketable niche. I will tell you that. Great. Good to know. Yeah. So you're onto something. We just need to refine the whole marketing and sales process so that you can monetize. But it's a very loaded question. I would have to be inside your business. I would need data. Yeah. To be able to tell you, oh, these are the missing puzzle pieces. Okay, fair enough. Yeah. But we relaunch again. I can't tell you how many times I launched things in my days of switching my niche, like every single month and got crickets. So let's just normalize it and then let's fill in the puzzle pieces and then off you go again and you'll be fine. Okay. Can I ask a real quick question about. So I. I have a therapy business. I am a licensed sex therapist. I haven't been saying that in any of my coaching anything like, I'm a licensed sex therapist because my intuition was like, to keep that completely separate. Yeah. You don't have to hide your credentials, but you don't want to be like, hire me as your coach because I'm a therapist. But if you're an L. C. SW for example, like, that doesn't need to be taken off your bio or your website. It is a credibility builder for us. But again, we don't want our clients to be confused. We don't want them to think that they're signing up for therapy. But regardless, you're going to get them on a consultation call, you're going to use your clinical discernment and you're going to clear up any confusion. But ask yourself the question. When you're creating content and you're dropping that you are a therapist, is this confusing for them on the services that I'm advertising? But it is not illegal to say that you are a therapist.

Okay?

We do not have to hide our credentials. Got it. Thank you. Appreciate it, Brody.

Hi there, Carly. Hey, congrats on the pregnancy.

Oh, thank you. I'm cruising now.

I wanted to say my, my niche. I'm still, still working with it. Right? That's the. Seems to be the problem topic here. I've done a lot of speaking gigs and my. My therapy specialty is caring for caregivers. People who put others needs above their own so much that they lose themselves in the process. And I'm having a hard time. Hannah's been trying to workshop it with me with hyper niche.

Talked about you.

Oh yeah. How about that?

Yeah, we talk about our clients. I talk about you guys all the time. Actually, I gave Hannah feedback on your niche. Did she give it to you about what we recommended?

Yeah, it was doing it with therapists specifically. And I'm just. I'm having a hard time committing to that. I feel like a lot of my clients in therapy are more like 35 to 40 year old mamas. Um. And yeah, it's just kind of been. It feels opposite of what I've actually been doing. Not opposite, but just not in alignment with what I've actually been doing.

Did you give us that idea? We didn't pull that out of thin air.

Well, some of the people that I work with are Counselors. Some of the people that I work with are doctors. Some of them are so and so, but the commonality seems to be moms.

Okay, that's fine. So you still work with moms, but it's moms in the healthcare field.

Maybe that can be something closer to it.

Can you tell me the new statement you have right now?

I have. Let me pull it up real quick because, again, it's a work in progress. And you said. You said that you change yours every other. Every other month there, and I get that.

Yeah. I was part of a networking program, and I. Every time I stood up to introduce myself, I was a different person. People couldn't keep up. It's just. You have permission to be whoever you want to be at any given time. So it is okay to switch, but it is not okay to switch only if it's not working.

Okay. Yeah. I help therapists who put the needs of others above their own and create a more sustainable approach to their wellness so they can bring the best of themselves to the people they serve and they live with.

Too flowery?

Yeah, it just. It hasn't settled.

Yeah, it's way too flowery. I feel like you've gotten away from a message that was more tangible. I'm going to table this because you're a client, and I'm going to look back on my messages with Hannah, and I will personally reach out to help you with your niche because there needs to be back and forth conversation, and I need to jog my memory on what Hannah and I discussed about your niche that she was going to bring back to you. So the three of us will tag team it, and then the red carpet will roll out and you can move on, please.

Yeah.

Okay. All right. Thanks, Brody. All right, let's do a few more because we're coming up on the top of the hour. Abby. Hi. Hi.

I know my coach talked to you about a potential niche of mine, and it was my specialty for over a decade. So it's what I know most about, and that was working with juveniles with sexual behavior problems. Now, the niche I wanted to work with was with the parents, and that is psychoeducation. And so my coach, who I have reach out to you, said that you said so I thought maybe we would bounce that back and forth a little bit. But these, you know, I can only. If you could only imagine what happens to these people's lives after a situation like this happens and exposes their family or I should expect a lot of my clients would be seeking me out anonymously.

Can you read me your new statement?

I didn't. I made one for a whole different thing because I was, I threw it all out.

But do you have what you threw out? Can you get it out of the trash?

No.

Is it actually in the trash?

No, I didn't write it. I, I'm kind of a lost lamb right now.

Okay. So let's do your best. Tell me a little bit more and I'll tell you why. We came together to say that maybe this isn't the best niche and know that a lot of these niches could work and maybe they work really well for therapy. Maybe they work really well for low ticket. I am a high ticket coach who is helping you create a signature high ticket coaching program. The market is different. It's a different animal in itself. Anytime that I poo poo on a niche, I do it with love. And I always like to express, explain why I do it and help you understand, but also throw the ball back in your court and say, hey, this is what I recommend. This is me knowing and understanding the market. What are your revenue goals? Are you okay with doing it a little bit different? Are you okay with maybe it taking a little bit longer? Are you okay with selling it at a low ticket price? It doesn't mean that it can't be done. So tell me a little bit more about your niche so I can explain why we gave you the feedback that we did. If you feel like you're not clear on the explanation.

Well, the clientele is out there suffering with no help. So these people's lives are destroyed. They're ostracized from their communities, their families disown them, their friends disown them. They get stigmatized.

Tell me the problem that's happening.

You don't hear that at all.

So you're working with the parents or.

You'Re working with so the parents. So their child has sexually offended on someone else.

Okay.

So they're.

You're working with the parents and the child has sexually offended someone else and you're going to support the parents. Okay.

And I have, I have the most.

Updated to me, this is a problem that needs to be dealt with in therapy.

Okay, well, wonder, I mean, I don't understand what is the clinical, what's the, what's the medical necessity to the parent? What are you saying?

You're going to be working with the child and the parent?

No, this is for the parent, just.

Going to be working with the parent.

These people's lives are destroyed and the child goes to therapy and the Most recommended way is for both of them to go to therapy together. But what I'm telling you is that due to the stigma there is 90% of the people out there are not coming forward. And I'm sure there's a lot of people I can get to maybe come forward and get their child help. And you know, I would be setting myself up to probably a lot of CPS calls and you know, other things I might have to see or hear. But this is a devastated community that people don't know about. And so another thing is how would I even market this?

Yeah, well, one, it goes back to market research. Right. Is there a market need? Yes. But are these parents actively seeking a group program, a group coaching program for this or are they actively seeking their own therapist for this? Because you would be doing a lot of CPS calls. It's just like if you were to take a client who you know, could be, let's say you're working with parents of teens who are self harming. I've seen this niche work well. But they were never taking any parents of teens who had suicidal ideations. It was very clear in their screening that they were harming for different reasons. It would be risky. And I would encourage that therapist turned coach to take a different route or put them into their private practice if the teen was at more severe risk. Again, this is why I came at it from the beginning that I think, can it be done? Yes. But it is murky and I think it needs more clinical attention. If you want to try it, that is up to you. And how you would market it, to answer your question, is the same that you would market any other signature coaching program and niche.

Okay.

So it's about first putting your feelers out there, getting people to raise their hand, putting your messaging out there, having conversations, getting them on phone calls, going through the market research questions that we give you that you can ask these parents. Networking. Okay.

Lots to think about. Thank you for your time.

You're welcome. Tracy.

Hi. Thank you for doing this, Carly. I was really excited to meet you. I've recently signed up for your self study program.

Great.

I am currently finishing up one that I paid a lot of money for that was more focused on coaching. But what I really liked about your program is that it is the clinician to coach and protecting that licensure. And I do have a private practice that's a brick and mortar. I've been a therapist 30 years. It took me a long time to even warm up to online. Right. And so I'm A new convert to the fact that it can work. And I have two great passions. I'm getting to my question quick. I'm sorry, but two of my great passions are I love to protect the counseling profession. Right. And. And I love to work with clinicians that are quality clinicians and help them make as much money as they can in order to keep them in the field. Right. So the coaching is an important step for growth because you can only get so far. Right. If you have a brick and mortar and you're sitting face to face, one on one. Right. We know this. I'm confused about my niche, I guess you could say, because one, I've been an LPC supervisor for years, and in Texas now, LPC associates can start their own practice. Well, that scares me because protecting the counseling profession, we really want the quality to be there. And then secondly is. Is wanting to help my therapist and other therapists learn how to package like a hybrid coaching model separate from their counseling and keep them safe. Does that make sense? And I'm ADHD as heck, as you can tell.

Yeah, it's okay. Do you have a niche statement drafted?

Well, it was mainly for. It was how clinicians and coaches can create time and money without increasing your client load. That was kind of the focus. I started off wanting to help LBC associates build their own practice. But I'm just so passionate about, you know, helping therapists also that my. My personal therapists that are not that are, you know, have been practicing for a while, helping them to. To grow their money. So I kind of went more towards that direction. But I'd like. I like both, if that makes sense.

Do you know how to help therapists grow their coaching business? Is that what you want to do?

Say it again.

Therapists can grow their money multiple different ways. So many ways therapists can make money. So do you want to help therapists start a private practice, or do you want to help therapists have a hybrid coaching model?

That's the qu. I've got both. Both are passions. So. And I know you have to pick just one, and I'm not good at just picking one. And so I didn't know if you saw kind of a connection between the two or if it was just. I just need to pick one and go with it.

Well, what do you feel more confident in? Have you built a hybrid coaching model yourself?

Well, I'm working on a.

No.

That's why I'm. That's why I'm coming to you. But we. We. So some of my therapists have kind of a beta group and. But they kind of want to do hybrid coaching models on trauma. Well, trauma is more of a clinical thing. So that's not really coaching. That's still counseling. And so we still have.

You've built your private practice.

Yes, yes, yes.

You've helped therapists build their private practice. Yes, I would start there.

Okay.

Then you can ascend and you can grow and you can evolve and you can add on back end offers. But let's go with what you know and you're most confident in and that you have a really nice warm network end as well. So there's your answer.

All right.

Thank you.

Okay. You're welcome. We will do Felicity and then wrap it up.

Hey, Carly, thank you for taking.

I will be succinct. I am new to your content. I just ordered your book yesterday. I appreciate you doing this call.

I have done.

I have a coaching certification and I'm.

Actually working with a coach right now.

On just launching my coaching business. Actually, I just recently launched it. But my question to you, I'm curious just because the whole therapist to coach is relatively new to me over the last two years.

And I was wondering what has been your biggest obstacle going from therapist to.

Coach and how long did it take.

You like working through different niches and developing, you know, different content and different programs? How long did it take you to really land your first high ticket client? Yeah, good question. Loaded question. I love it. One I just have to address. You do not need a coaching certification. I meant to say that earlier when someone else said that they had a coaching certification. I talk about this a lot, but for any of you who are hearing like, well, I have a coaching certification. You don't need one. If you want one, cool, I have one. I didn't learn anything. I didn't learn in grad school. If you're going to take one, take it within your niche. Maybe if you're going to take a basic ICF coaching certification, you're going to learn active listening, rapport, building, how to ask powerful questions. So again, if it's going to make you feel more confident, take it. But assess where your time and your energy and money is is best spent for the place that you're in and trying to grow your business. I digress. What was the biggest obstacle for me, I think that one, it was protecting my license. So when I was first moving from my private practice to coaching, I one had to understand the difference between therapy and coaching because nobody teaches us that in school. And when I was googling it, I was highly confused. So I did a lot of research to understand what is the difference and what is the easiest definition because there are so many nuances. But then once I did conceptualize and understand that it was about protecting my license. So that's when I started meeting with different attorneys and having them create custom paperwork for me of how I could actually add coaching ethically and legally. I mean, everything that I teach is everything that I have walked through myself. And then after that I went through the niche challenge. And P.S. this is exactly how my program is laid out for all the challenges that I went through. Like, I first give some mindset nuggets like prepare for the dip, it's going to come. Building your coaching business is no joke. Then we move into protecting your license, Then we move into figuring out your niche. Like I was mentioning earlier, I mean, I was switching niches. I started off doing women empowerment coaching. I was helping women through life transitions. It wasn't specific enough, it was flowery. I created a website and I had tons of platitudes and cliches on it like wake up and live your dream life. Like anybody could say that, a weight loss coach could say that, a business coach could say that, a woman empowerment coach could say that. I was also simultaneously studying the online industry and I was investing in high ticket coaches who were teaching me marketing, who was teaching me copywriting, who was teaching me sales, who was helping me niche down. I then moved into I'm a reiki master. So I started doing energy healing and tarot readings and I created courses on how to use like a pendulum and how so to. I had a woo world training, I had manifestation trainings. I was selling high ticket from the start of my coaching business. I think it was like 1750amonth. But I was doing one to one and I would stack all of my services. So you get one training a month on XYZ, you get a Reiki session, you get, you know, four 45 minute sessions with me. So I was stacking everything and I was like, you get all of this for this versus saying and you get bonus of X, Y, Z, right? So this is what we call a value stack, an offer stack. And instead of saying like, hey, my dollar for hour price is $150. It took me about, you know, a year and a half to land on my niche of teaching therapists. I first had a program actually to teach therapists how to build their private practice. That's where I started. And then I moved into helping therapists start and grow their coaching business. Because that's what I was doing. That's who I was at heart. And that made sense for me at the time. So basically, anything that I learn, I teach it and I just walk myself through it. Felicity, did that answer your questions? I know there was multiple questions.

Yes. Yes. No, you answered all of them. Thank you very, very much.

Okay, great. Last call. Does anybody have anything else while you're here? Punch a me in the chat. Punch the one in the chat. I see we have lots of people here who are just listening, which is incredible. Again, thank you guys for being here. There is so much more where this came from. I have a whole team that helps you. I have a copywriting coach. I have a mindset coach. I have a sales coach. You get individual coaching. There's different tiers. If you need just the help with protecting your license, we got you. You need help with your niche, we got you marketing, sales, email marketing, templates, what tech and platforms to use, Everything. What legal zoom package do I recommend? Christina asked and add one. This is personal preference on how much paperwork you want to do yourself. So if you're filing a new llc, you can do it yourself and you don't even have to go through LegalZoom. I like going through LegalZoom when I file businesses because I don't like to do the paperwork myself. I'd rather pay somebody to do it for me and just have the peace of mind. So it depends. You don't need the top tier package though. It's probably just the middle one. But I haven't looked at their packages in a while, so I would just hop on, support with them and ask. All right, everyone, I wish you well. If you need help, reach out to our team. We are here to support you and guide you. We're coming into the new year. This is a hot time for coaching. People are constantly looking to invest in themselves. They are every day waking up, ready, willing, eager to pay you. There's 7 million people in this world. Somebody is ready to pay you today, I promise. So it's not an excuse to get overwhelmed with protecting your license. It's not an excuse to get overwhelmed with figuring out your niche. All of this can be figured out. We are here to support you. You do not have to do it alone. All right, take care, everyone. Thank you so much for listening to the Thriving Therapy newer podcast. I hope that this episode has inspired you to reduce burnout, work smarter and see the freedom potential you have as a therapist. We would love to have you inside the therapist to coach, accelerator, Facebook group where we have live trainings and cheers cheat sheets on all things marketing, sales and adding coaching ethically and legally. I am here cheering you on and I'll see you around.