Evolving tariffs, trends, and tech in the supply chain with Audrey Ross

Welcome to Supply Chain Connections. I'm Brian Glick, founder and CEO at Chain IO. Very excited for this episode. We talked to a very good personal friend of mine, Audrey Ross. Audrey is based out of the Toronto area and is the import and export compliance manager at Orchard Custom Beauty. And if there was ever a title that understates someone's value, it's that one. Audrey is all things transportation and trade compliance and incredibly engaged in the trade community. Works a lot with a team at let's Talk Supply Chain and is out at conferences doing work with nonprofits. And we're going to get into all of that and how Audrey thinks about all of that outside work and how it affects her career and how she thinks about balancing those and how that's changed over time. So if you want to think about engagement in your career, in the community, and where that balance is and how you can adjust it and make it work for you, this is a great episode to listen to. Also, just a pleasure. And we are going to talk about the tariffs and all of that fun stuff, too, so hope you enjoy the episode. Audrey, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Brian. I'm excited.

So how did you get into the global trade business? And more importantly, why did you stay?

Such a great question, and I love hearing the answer from the other guests. And you wonder if there's like a personality trait that sort of sticks you in and then you just get obsessed with it, you know, are forced to stay. I started, I was doing a degree in political science up at Carleton in Ottawa, and my grandfather had passed away, and he'd been involved in a business, and he was in perishables, actually, in global trade. And so I'd heard about it when you're kind of talking at the dinner table and that. And I had gotten an opportunity after I'd come back to Toronto as a summer student. Summer student fetching coffee. And they were in this business. There seemed to be a lot of samples. Put the samples away, keep the samples tidy. This admin job for the summer, and I was like, it's fantastic. I got there, and within a couple of weeks, it became, can you type up these quotes to this customer in Mexico? Can you contact this factory in China? So it ended up being this more dynamic role than I'd expected. And by the time I got to the end of the summer, I was hooked. I was like, this is fascinating. I had always had this little inkling in the back of my mind that jobs got to be routine and boring. And coming into starting a career was Like I did not want to be bored at work. I didn't want to be one of those people who was like 9 to 5 doing the same thing every day. And so this just clicked all of these boxes of like, now you go down to accounting, now you have to fill out this form. Now you're talking to these people.

I've always said that 25 years in this business, I've never had the same day twice.

Oh no, no. And I signed on, I was like, how do I get more of this? And I came back the next year and have been doing that for a while. 20 years now I'm down at 20 years this year.

Congratulations. I guess I'm saying I guess because I think we should be transparent that we are recording this on the 3rd of February as we are trying to unpack in real time on our second monitor is whether or not Audrey's home country of Canada and my home country of the United States are or are not in a trade war, which seems to be some topic of debate. Let's get a little specific then. What is the day to day reality for somebody who runs the global the trade function for a company while all of this tariff madness is going on? Like what is this? What does this do to your personal life or your mental wellbeing? Like actually tell us a little bit about the inside here.

Yeah, I mean this job and like most jobs can tend to become a bit boundaryless when it comes to time and activities and when you have these kinds of disruptions. When you're working in global trade, you already have a series of projects that you're working on. You already have through manufacturing delay, artwork challenges, quality assurance reviews and audits and things, climate and weather conditions, maritime sea companies changing their alliances and thus changing their shipping routes. You already have a level of underlying disruption in your day to day depending on how many countries you're working in and where I've been working with about 22. And so there's always something that you're trying to work around or mitigate. And alongside getting the project done, getting it shipped on time, getting it delivered in perfect condition and meeting the cross border requirements, documentation and tax and duty expectations. And then when you add these things in it becomes, and especially in this case, the US administration does not like to work like a 9 to 5. So these announcements are often after hours. In this case I'm going to tell you on Saturday. So I had to wait like all Saturday checking the news because it's going to have at least we got some expectation of we knew it was going to be us or we knew it was going to be these regions so you could change it. And then it means I come in this morning and some of the first emails out aren't trying to get a customs clearance done or trying to look at the current project list or do we have challenges with anything. Do I need to meet my team? It becomes get the messaging out on how are we going to cope with this pricing change. It's published, so this is what you have to do now. We've had preparatory conversations already, but it's certainly an interruption. It's an interruption. And in this case too, there seems to be a back and forth right. Where we expect something might happen and then it changes and then it changes again and it just happens. You know, I joked a lot about Brexit personally affecting Audrey Ross in Canada, which, I mean, it makes me sound self centered, I'm sure, but it really did. It was like this huge thing for like three years of like, are you guys really gonna do this? And then once they did, it was like, this has to. This has to set, this has to set. And it was like it became what does become like three hours of your day is just coping with a country decided to change its customs rules. Right.

And you work. We haven't talked or really got into what Orchard does, but tell us a little bit about the size and shape of the supply chain you work in. So everybody has some context. Yeah.

It's funny because internally our teams think we're a big shipper because they think we ship a lot and in some ways we ship a lot. But we ship a lot of small because we're in the cosmetics, beauty accessories and bath item trade. So our cosmetics, you're talking about lipstick and lips, pencils that are so tiny. So a big order is still only three to five pallets. So there's a lot of small shipments, a lot of LCL if we're going technical. And then we have some customers who do some of the bigger items. Right. We do a lot of cosmetic bags and travel bags for a couple of our customers. One, so that's FCL. And I think I mentioned earlier, it's about 22 countries now that we're in and out of. So we've always had a pretty diverse manufacturing landscape where we have, we leaned heavily on a country like China for things like components and inputs. And then those might be moved over to Italy or into Canada or into the US and then in recent years it's like, who's doing what in Colombia and Mexico and Turkey. So those kinds of keeping track of 22 import and export areas, plus all the regulations, monitoring the shipping, keeping on top of peak season. So it definitely keeps. There's a breadth to it for sure.

So that's a lot of work to do and a very complicated supply chain that you guys manage with a relatively small team. And while you're doing that, you also have always made time to be very engaged in the trade community in managing, I'll use the word, a personal brand. Being out there in the world. How do you think about that kind of balance and what makes you want to go out there and also spend time doing a lot of these other industry things as opposed to just having a normal hobby like I guess theoretically other people have. I don't have them, but I'm assuming. Yeah, I'm assuming there are people in the world who have hobbies.

Yeah, exactly. I think if I'm being really transparent, the kind of why of it was I think I wanted, especially when I was starting, I wanted to build some credibility. I didn't finish my degree and I have a couple of certifications that I found invaluable. They really helped craft me into how I'm able to. To do my job. But I think I felt that trying to get some sort of steady recognition or validation that what I've learned and what I was doing and how I was organizing it was the best direction and was a match to what people are doing in the industry. And then there's also the representation piece as well. Supply chain, international trade, especially around in the finance piece can be very. Has had being very male dominated. When I would go into rooms 10 or 15 years ago, I could count on my hands how many other women there were. Not so much in candidate like overall diversity of who was in the room. But generally the woman count was low and that's changed. I started to see on places like LinkedIn and other social media and also in interviews or on conference floors that women weren't necessarily wholly represented in the way that they were participating in the industry. And I'm an extrovert. I was raised by my family to have some sort of opinion. You couldn't be around the dinner table without having some sort of. There was a lot of debate. Both sides was like, take this side, take that side. And so I think that helped too to have some sort of confidence as well in myself or in what I was doing and being able to kind of be a representative that I wasn't seeing and not in any way to suggest that I knew everything that was going on, but I think it was making a space to say it's okay to not know everything that's going on and to be putting up your hands and, you know, representing the new people to the industry, the people who aren't always in the room, and to just be curious about how this whole thing.

Works, to feel an obligation to do that or an interest or both sort of question.

I think it definitely started as an obligation. Every time I was in rooms and where I have my friend Sarah, you'd be talking to people about, you know, who's speaking on stage or who's doing this and, you know, you'd be in a room where a woman would say, well, I couldn't go and do that. Like, I don't know enough about X when I had enough, I don't know, arrogance, confidence that I wouldn't hesitate to say yes to something if I was offered a spot on a webinar or a spot unine. Simon did a great session at Logtech several years ago now, I guess. But yeah, I think definitely in the beginning I felt in a way obligated to pay it forward, but also to take it on, take on that role, to show that you could do it. Right. And not again, not to say that I'm any sort of expert in it, but just to show that you can have support while you muddle your way through when you start to learn at least certain pillars or certain aspects of the business that you start to become confident in and then being open to learn the rest of it. But yeah, I think it started as obligation and now it's become interest. And I think the way I approach it has changed.

How has it changed?

It's not. It's become less about my own insecurity and maybe that's just because matured and gotten older or gotten into a different place. But I think it became less about my own insecurity and more about helping the community. Right. It became less about trying to build that confidence and more about what can I actually share from what I've learned to make it easier for the people who are doing this or who are new to this or who are struggling in a certain area. Right. They're confident in shipping between Canada and the U.S. but I have no idea how to deal with Turkey and Poland. Right.

Shifting gears a little bit. One of the conversations that you and I had on a stage actually was the kind of late stage pandemic. We were all back out in the world, but with the chaos of, you know Suez Canal and all the things that kind of were going on. A couple years ago, we had a conversation about what can your service providers do for you and what should your relationship be between a shipper and a service provider provider. And we're now in another one of those moments, right, with a lot of chaos. How are you leaning on your providers? Are you leaning on providers or are you going it alone trying to figure this stuff out?

I think for me, I've taken a bit of now that I have more experience and that we have more experience in some of the areas that we're operating in and we've been through at least one round of what tariffs look like from 2018. I think I've done quite a bit of like when it's the same challenge between freight forwarders, I think, and customs brokers. My goals have always been a long term relationship, trying to determine who's the best fit up front, spending a lot of time on doing that. And I don't change quickly unless it's really necessary. But it's also, I've probably been vetting someone for several years. I'd like to have a backup. So there's always someone who I'm kind of keep an eye on or have a short list of like, okay, if this doesn't work out, I've met this person or we've talked to this business or we've seen another customer with this business or they've gotten a recommendation from someone in the community that I know. I would say now with these tariff challenges, like who am I getting updates from? I'm getting updates in real time. I know where to look for them, I know where they're being published. I think I rely once they're published, I'm disseminating that to my team. But then there are definitely people I look to for more analysis. And that's not necessarily companies that we work with. I think there's some companies that I'd like to work with maybe, but we're not working with who offer some great insights and are kind enough to publish those out on LinkedIn or on their own websites, like this podcast. Right.

So you mentioned your team and getting that information out to them. What personality traits do you look for when you're trying to build up your team? What makes someone good in this business?

Yeah, it's a person. Yes, somewhat. Especially for us where we're really focused. You know, one of the values is that agility and adaptability and being able to juggle different types of projects and different types of regions and so it's that, not to say multitasking, but to be able to have, you know, that Jack and Jill of all trades analogy is probably apt in our business. Right. There's definitely areas where you can find joy and focus in from those trade compliance, but that understanding a bit about logistics, a bit about customs and being able to carry that through. I did an interview with one of my team members and we were talking about challenges and things like that. He goes, when you fill out the IMO dangerous goods form and you get the kilograms off by 2kg, you have to fill it out again. You know, relationally, I'm like, I filled out that I am interested. I know what you're talking about. And then also, yeah, that level of detail that it's like if you have a mismatch between your bill of lading and your packing list and you can spot that and it's challenging when you're going to your HR team, your people and culture team and being like, I need to hire someone who can spot a difference out of bill of lading in a packing list. Like, how do you test for that or how do you come to that outcome? But I think overall it's interest. If I'm looking for an interest in learning, I'm looking for an interest in being in the industry that they find it fascinating or that they're curious about it. I think that's the driver, I think the technical knowledge. This can be a very technical industry with a lot of, with a lot of jargon. And I think the key is I'm not expecting someone to come in or even at my level, I don't know all of the. My team's a broader teams always ask me what's this acronym that this customer's asked me about. I'm like, I don't know all of them. I also go to Google, I also go to Perplexity, I also go to the LinkedIn and I'm like, sorry, has nobody else heard of this? What is it?

That's. It's actually something that we have to talk to our team about as well, is like, it is totally fine. I think a lot of people who come into this business, especially if they come in mid career from outside supply chain. Yeah, right. They come from spaces where the world of acronyms or the world of things that go on may be finite in there. Like, you know, I'm afraid to name another industry because I know everything is much more complicated than you think it is. Right. But like, you know, it's this thing and there's a regulatory framework. And I know we have. But, like, so everything kind of matches between companies. And it's really important that we stress, especially with our salespeople. If you get on the phone with a customer and they start rattling off something that you don't know, it is 100% okay in this business to say to someone from another company, I have no idea what you're talking about.

You lean on the things. Like, well, hey, I'm here in Canada, and we might refer to that differently. I lean on that one. Right?

Yeah.

I'm in Canada, you're in France. Might be different. You're in China. Sorry, what is. Can you just explain that? Like, just in case.

Yeah, it's true.

At the global. Like, even bill of lading, there's a trucker's bill of lading, there's an ocean bill of lading FOB in the US I learned meant something kind of different because it's such a huge country that you could just have freight on board and like, on a truck between different states. Not the incoterm that put it on a boat. Getting asked for, like a. In the US And I'm like, you want me to take it to LA and load it on a boat? Oh, no, that's not what you meant. Okay. Whoops.

So it is. Yeah. You know, I think you mix in that a lot of companies have unique internal terminology that has no correlation to anything in the real world. Right?

Yeah. That's what my team mostly brings to me. It's our customer is saying this, and I'm like, your customer has like a bajillion dollar supply chain, and they've just made up what they wanted. But you can't go. Don't go back to the customer. Tell them that. But like, okay, we'll try to figure out what that means when it not nine times out of ten has the same. Like, there's the same acronym, but that means something in world shipping or in customs or whatever. And you're like, oh, that's not what it means.

The extended period at the beginning of my career trying to. I think I spent a year helping to build a system. And the system had an entire GoH management section. And I was like, I kind of figured out that it was garments on hangers, right? And then it was closed. Right? And it's like, I was like, oh, yeah, their GOH program. Their GOH program, we have to have GOH flags and GOH identifiers and GOH allocations. And, like, someone had to finally explain to me yeah. When you pack stuff on garments, on hangers, you have to pay a tariff on the hangar. Maybe depending on the type of hanger and depending on whether that hanger is going to be reused and on and on and on. But, like, I was too embarrassed at 25.

Yeah.

To be like, in the first meeting. Hold up, everybody. I don't know what GOH is. Right. And you can say, look, I've got an F, O, B, go, H, P, O. Like, I haven't used any words yet. It's all acronyms. The whole sentence could just be acronyms. So. Yeah. But I think that comes to that fascination, Right. That you were talking about. Like, if you're curious. Yeah, yeah.

But also not afraid to put up your hand. I think if you and I can do one thing, like for our team members, I tell everyone when they start, I'm like, very quickly, it's. People are going to think that you've been here a long time and we have such a huge variety of customers and regions or whatever. There's going to be something that they toss out, like, just pause and say, oh, I haven't worked on that area. I haven't worked on that product. I haven't worked on whatever. And get them to explain it to you. Because the worst thing that can happen is that you go through. You're treating it like, yeah, I know what that is. And you have no clue.

I will say, I have never once. And I can be impatient, but I have never once in my career. Internal monologue. Actually had somebody say, can you stop and explain that to me? Where that has bothered me or upset me? And I'm east coast us, so if I'm not doing it, nobody's doing it.

Right. Exactly.

Like, I'm always like, if it's a salesperson from another company, I'm like, oh, my God, thank you for actually caring that you're getting this right. That's what gets into my head. Right. And yet people are terrified to go, I don't know. Like, I'm supposed to be the expert and I don't know that term you just used. Yes, it's fine.

Yes. It just shows dedication. It shows that you're curious. It shows that you're interested. To me, it shows that you value being correct over being incorrect and blustering through. I don't know.

And that is.

I'm on the same big thing in.

The personality type we're talking about. Right. When you hire somebody is valuing being correct.

Yeah, yeah.

You don't need that in every job.

No. Right.

So actually that brings me to a tech topic. What are. Okay, I'm going to apologize in advance because I'm going to go there, but you mentioned perplexity. Right. And you know, you're, you're not a tech person, so I'm very curious. How are you thinking as a compliance person about using AI and where is it appropriate and where is it inappropriate? Your thought process right now, knowing this is a very evolving topic. But I'm very curious from, from a person who is precise, like, where do you, where do you use it in your day and where are you not using it?

Yeah, yeah, it's. I mean, it's definitely the hot new technology. And as a compliance person and as a person who, you know, my fit training has me with an ethical mindset. Right. A commitment to an ethical process. The first concerns become, is it ethical? Right now, we've seen a lot of the applications come out around artwork and books and literature and things like that. And this concept of it's lifting everything and you're like, and then what is it doing? Is it then writing a book? And it sounds like the same author and now the author's not getting paid. So there's that kind of personal or ethical concern. There's the. Primarily as a. Being business minded, there's a privacy concern. I think that's the biggest. A lot of people that I work with are excited. Everyone wants to. It sounds great, right? Oh, it's going to automate this task. You're not going to have to spend time doing copy and paste or data entry. I can read this and do that. It can help you with prompts and quick research. And then the primary holdup for me is the privacy. Right. Because I can ask certain general questions. Right. And you know, there are a couple perplexities. One of them that brings back cited information. So it's not just random, it's verify. You can do the second step and click through and verify it. But it's the can I upload my bill of lading or my. This spreadsheet with all these costs on it and have it do something without all of that being in the public sphere. So I think there's. For me, the privacy concern is real. And learning more about systems that are in house where you have a license and you're in an enclosed space are attractive. And I think that's how we're approaching it, at least initially. And then we have a working group internally that's across all of our business units that needs to talk about AI. What's coming through. We have a team that's becoming more dedicated to it. How best can we use it? And of course the primary use cases in our business or salesforward marketing forward, how can we showcase the products. But there's definitely a secondary interest in the back end operations and that's very enticing to see.

Does it feel like cheating when you use it?

To me it definitely does. Oh my gosh. I was raised again by this family who was like, you have. My first birthday gift was like a dictionary and there was an expectation that you would just learn these things. Right. It just wasn't an option to not have this sort of detail oriented research about to do that. No. So it definitely feels in some ways and yeah that concern about if I don't use my brain, is it going to melt after a couple of years of just having something answered? So for me it's important to use it as to me it's more of a strategic tool. I'm not asking it everything, I'm more looking. To me it's a research tool. It's like I don't have time to scour. Google's not necessarily delivering in the same way it used to. I think there's been sort of a shift in how it delivers you the information that you, the accuracy of the information that you're looking for. It still gives you information. So to me it's like using it as a tool that can curate information quickly, faster than I can. That's a very good use case. Answering all of my dumb questions. I don't know.

Does the calculator on your computer feel like cheating?

Oh, no, no.

What's that? What's the difference?

Yeah.

Oh, that's a. I'm curious, I'm very curious what the difference is.

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I definitely think there's a bias. I think there's an inherent bias for me in. Yeah. How I would use something or the perception that I'm not making sure there's some personal development or some sort of learning growth around using the tool. But that's probably just.

It's.

It's an Audrey problem.

Well, it's not an Audrey problem. The reason I went down that path is I had an interesting conversation last week with an investor here in Philadelphia who's worked for some very large companies. Her name is Grace Francisco and she was mentioning how there is a very significant gender divide in how people approach that question and it's the usage stats. And there was an article I saw the other day that said that something like 85% of the ChatGPT mobile downloads.

Right.

I don't know if it was all mobile or just Android, but was 85% male. Yeah.

Right.

And that this. And she actually said to me in the conversation we had, like, it's because women feel like it's cheating. Right. And that, that is. Is one of those sort of subtle gender differences in how we're conditioned.

It's a conditioning. It's definitely conditioning that that's too easy. And yeah, in conversation with other women, there's other things too where it's like, that seems too easy. Isn't this supposed to be hard? Right. And so, yeah, it's like, what was your horrendous childhood conditioning that makes you think that everything has to be hard? Right. And I love flipping that for me. I do have these concerns about the privacy, so I can't bring a lot of business stuff into it until we have it in our own space. But I did feel. What's the right word for it? I don't know. I felt compelled. I felt compelled to start trying it. And I felt compelled when they started offerings at someone at work, had put together these monthly meetings to talk about AI and to really start learning about it. Because I do find in other technologies as well that women did lag. And so maybe that comes back to my. I don't know. My purpose is to show that you can start out and try these things and we can fail with them, but that they are useful tools, that it's a great, useful tool for your business in a lot of ways. And like I said, there's a couple of ways where it's still. There's little restrictions or like little things that it needs to catch up to. But overall, like, it's user friendly, it helps you with X. That's why done sound.

It sounds like you have a healthy skepticism, which is a. Yeah, that's an important, important component to anything.

Yes. That's what I find with anything new. It's like, I don't. I'm not afraid of it. I'm not. And I think too, like, my grandparents are around. My grandfather's 89 and my grandmother's 87. And they both have their own cell phones, they have laptops, they had tablets. My grandfather does his Bible study on Zoom every week. And it was always. It's like a competitive thing. I don't know. But they weren't going to be left behind. But they weren't going to be left behind on anything. And so when they bought. What did they buy? A laptop or something and Microsoft offered them like six courses. They diligently went up to the mall to see this 22 year old guy to go through all the exercises and they'll do their homework. They're like homework people. So they come back the next week. My grandfather would open his notebook and be like, okay, okay Matt, what about this? And so I don't know if that helps me too in the, like there's no age limit. I think two people get very ageist about why I'm this generation and maybe we don't do that. I don't know.

It's. Well, it's a very important thing I think as people age because. Yeah, yeah. Like I look at my grandparents since we're on the topic, who both have passed, but my grandfather was very active all the way through up until the last couple years of his life. Yeah, he made basically community wide WI fi for his entire retirement community. He didn't physically put up the towers, but he arranged for them to have towers and wideband installed and all of this stuff in his 80s. Yeah, right. Because he was always active and my grandmother was less so. And you could very much see. Yes, you know, mental capacity is use it or lose it. And that's a really important thing I think, for all of us to remember that like you, you know, at least from an analogy standpoint, your brain's a muscle. Right. And if you don't use the muscle, it's going to atrophy. Take us out with something you're excited about. Besides the fact that you get to hang up with me and go redo tariff spreadsheets, what else are you excited about?

I'm headed to New York City next week, which is always a great city to visit. So I'm excited about that. I'm not going to any conferences as of the first and second quarter of this year. I put a pause on that. Have a FOMO about. Everybody's going to be having so much fun at Manifest and at ATCC in Houston is I think this week or next week 2pm so there's definitely a sense of myths around it. But I feel good about the decision. I was feeling a bit stretched and I was losing sense of why I was doing some of these things and what I was looking for. And so I am looking forward to the next few months of taking that introspection period and not being out as much in the world.

Well, that is, I think all of us may be a little bit jealous of the amount, amount of things that you can do when you're not having to be on plane.

Yeah.

And again, we'll keep talking and I'm glad to have you on here.

And yeah, it's an honor. Like, I've been listening to the show and like, you've managed to find very interesting people. So, so glad to be included in that group.

Thank you so much for chatting with us. We'll get a link down to Orchard if people want to understand more of where you work and what you guys do down in the show notes. And why don't you tell everybody just real quick at the end? Because we didn't talk about it, about Blended and some of the things you do in the community. And we'll get those down in the show notes and then we can take it out from there.

Sure. Yeah. Blended is Blended pledge, which we started. Sarah Barnes Humphrey, who a lot of you know from let's talk supply chain, we got that started. Part of it was inspired by the fact that when I was first starting out, I'd get asked to speak, but I wasn't in a position at the company where they would pay me to go to anything. So to try and realize those opportunities, a lot of people heard about my, like, planes, trains and automobile journey to find the best budget price. Did several flights on Spirit Frontier. It got me there. I'm in one piece, but. So anyways, Blended was started. It's a micro grant program to help cover all of those costs. If you get an opportunity to be on a stage and you're in a position where you know it's important for your personal brand, it's important if you're an entrepreneur to get your business out there, but you can't afford the hotel and airfare costs. You can apply and there's a review committee in that we offer grants. I love being part of that because it really solves a specific problem that some people don't realize is there because a lot of companies will cover the cost for people to go or a lot of people are in a different financial position than I was. So I love that one. And then the other big one, I'm just closing out. I was the president for two years of Organization of Women in International Trade Toronto, which supports entrepreneurs, people in trade policy, trade practitioners. It's a focus on advancing the careers of women in professional trade. So there's a high focus on facilitated networking and then education topics relevant to that. So I was the president. I'm closing that out. I'm past president this year, so I'll support them going forward, but not as much as many activities maybe. Like I love doing these things. I love taking them on. But I think someone when I, when I first got started and I was asking, well, what is this group like and how are they? And she's like, this is the kind of thing you do for like four years and then you take a break. You don't do it every single day for the rest of your life. It's the kind of thing you go into. You give it what you've got and then you take a pause.

Well, we will get those. It's blendedpledged.org and owit.org but we'll get those in the show notes as well.

Thank you.

And Audrey, thank you so much for being on. It's always just an absolute pleasure to chat with you and I look forward to talking to you soon for sure.

Thanks, Brian.

Thanks again to Audrey for just an excellent conversation. As you probably can tell, she's one of my favorite people in the industry to talk to. We'll make sure to get the show notes with links to Audrey's LinkedIn as well as the organizations that she supports. Be sure to follow her and also follow let's Talk Supply Chain, where Audrey often is an emergency guest host on some of the shows there and she always has great insights that just brings such a positive attitude. Don't forget to check out Chain IO Blog. We got some exciting things coming up and we're doing some really interesting new product development. So look for some things coming out real soon. And thanks for listening to Supply Chain Connections.