Ep16: How to Overcome Fear Of Starting A New Business (It's Not "Just Do It") - I Got Interviewed by Charles Leikauf

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of expanded you podcast. Today I was actually featured on my friend's podcast, Charles. He is a fractional cfo and he has his own business teaching accountants how to transform their business into a fractional CFO model. And we were just talking about how do we find confidence for ourselves when we're learning a new task or a new skill? Um, for him, it was people who are learning about how to do new sales calls and people who are learning about raising their prices for their services and really just how to overcome your mind who is telling you, stop, hold it, I am not ready. And how do you overcome that? So I'm super excited to share this episode with you guys and make sure you take lots of notes because I drop a ton of golden nuggets in there. So, without further ado, here's the episode.

What's up? Welcome. I'm Charles Laikoff. I'm here with Suzanne Lee. She is a success coach that helps entrepreneurs find more confidence in themselves so they can become the entrepreneur that they've always dreamed about. Suzanne, so awesome to have you here.

Thank you so much, Charles, for having me. So excited to be here too.

So I know I actually met you at a personal branding event, oh, almost about a month ago or so. And so I know we've been talking since then, and you and I talked about a couple different things. Community of people who are fractional CFOs or want to become fractional CFOs and grow their accounting firm. And we talked a little bit about confidence. And the reason why I want to bring on you on here and talk with you is a lot of people in my industry struggle with that. So I would love to hear just a general background on you and your story and where you are when you came from, and then we'll dive into the whole confidence and fear and kind of overcoming that. So give us a little background on you, please.

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm super excited about this topic because I love to serve, like, the professional kind of industry. So I was myself, I study in engineering, and I can totally relate to long hours of studies. And you want to put up a professional front and you want to, like, not talk too silly at work, and you have to put on that professional, you know, character in the office. Right. And I can totally relate to that. And I was one of those before, and I just didn't see myself in corporate the rest of my life. So I kind of just started Googling alternative to corporate one day on my couch. Because Google knows Everything. So all these business ideas started popping up and I never, never dreamt that I would be in business by myself. I thought I would just be in corporate and be an engineer all the rest of my life. Because that's what I was taught by my parents is go get a good degree, go get a good job, and then you're set for life. Right. That was how I was raised and never would have thought that, oh, business for me was very risky and I'm not that risk averse and I'm very safe and I'd rather earn a scary good salary. Exactly. It's scary. Until the pain was just big enough that I cannot stay in the corporate world for another 30 years. And so I just started googling and all these business ideas started popping up in my social media feed. I love Tony Robbins. So Tony Robbins popped up in my social media feed and it was a ticket to see Tony Robbins. $20. I'm like, Tony Robbins for $20. Usually his tickets are like a thousand dollars. I'm like, bye. And then I drove to Atlanta to see him in person for the first time. And it was just the kind of how I started my whole journey of finding my own self confidence and really backpedaling on those stories that I've been telling myself I'm not good enough for to be an entrepreneur or I'm not fit to be an entrepreneur. All these things that we tell ourselves, I learned from Tony Robbins that these are just stories and beliefs and lies basically. And we're running a programming in our head that prevents us to get to where we want to be or to really tap into our potential of what we can actually achieve for ourselves. And that's why I love this topic of finding that confidence. So when I left my corporate job, I started in real estate investing. So I was doing what was called wholesaling, very similar to kind of how agents help people find houses. I was finding houses for investors, basically. And so there was a lot of training on being on calls and calling people and scripts of this is how you should talk to them. And I'm guessing it's quite similar to kind of some of your training, Charles, of how you train the CFOs is the script that you can tell them. So I remember I was probably six months into the training. I still haven't done a deal, still haven't done a call, basically.

Oh no.

One day I was talking to my, my own success coach, coach, and he was telling me, tomorrow's the day. Tomorrow you have to make 25 calls. And I'm like, 25 calls. I haven't even made one.

How are you going to do 25?

Exactly? And I was the type thing about typical engineer sitting behind the computer, not talking too much to the people. And I'm supposed to call random people on the phone.

Oh, no.

And I remember when I first started, I had this list in front of me. I'm like, I'm ready. I have my phone numbers. And then I was dialing on my phone, and before I could even hit the dial button, I'm like, oh, I'm hungry. I need to go to the kitchen and get something. I couldn't even press the button. And I lingered on like that for at least a week. If I can recall correctly, my coach like, okay, that's it. You have to make 25 calls. And I'm like, holy crap. I have to report back to him after I'm done. What I did was how to find my own confidence to do that is I did what Tony Robbins taught us is to tap into our physiology. And what that means is basically kind of use your body to move the body. Very similar to why do we feel so much more energy after we work out? It's because we moved our body because we use that body. So it started to create more energy. And so one thing that I learned is stand up at my desk. And that gave me an immediate emotional shift in my mind. So from the fear to use that body of standing up to give me a little bit more confidence. So I was just there standing on my desk and dialing down the list of 25 numbers. And I remember when I did that, I was like, holy cow, this is actually really fun. Like, before, I would be like, don't pick up, don't pick up, don't pick up. Yes.

So is the only thing different you decided to stand? Like, was that it?

That was one of the first things that helped me the most. I want to share a little bit more kind of what else I did after that to give me even more confidence. But really tapping into the physiology is the quickest way to change your state immediately. Just like why people tell you it's like when you're tired, you know, just get up and go take a walk. The reason is because you're moving your body. And so very similar to kind of when you're watching TV on the couch and you're like, oh, I need to get that pen from my bedroom. And then as soon as you get up, you're like, oh, what did I wanted to do? Like, why did I get up immediately.

Forget.

Exactly. And the reason it happens, because we change our physiology by getting up. So it changed our emotional state. And so using that potential in our body just to. To use it to our advantage, like, no, I'm just going to stand up. And then right now I'm also standing up. And because you're standing up, you can actually use your voice a little bit more. And. And you can tell on the phone if you're confident or not. So you just use your voice differently as well.

Okay, that. That makes total sense. So it sounds like you engineering firm working, crushing it, maybe being crushed by work. A little bit of both. And you're like, all right, how do. How do I get out of this? And it seems like you found yourself in real estate somehow, right? And you did a bunch of training, and so you did training for six months before you called anyone. Is that. Is that what I'm hearing?

Probably. I'm trying. Yeah. Maybe even closer to a year before I actually started calling.

So.

So I started the training when I was still at work, and then because I was doing it part time, I wasn't fully putting all my energy into it. And then it was actually. Yeah, you're right. It was one year since I started the training, and it was only when I left the corporate job that I really took it seriously to. To start calling people.

Wow. So it took. It took leaving your job to, like, like, almost force you to call those people. That must have been really scary for you if it took that level of like, oh, I don't have a job. Maybe I gotta get some money rolling in the door. Like, there's these things called bills or, I don't know, whatever your situation is, but I'm sure there's a fire under. Under your butt at that point.

Yep. Yeah, exactly. And that's exactly why I decided to leave the corporate world, because I needed to add some fire under my butt to get things moving, because I always wanted to do this. If I have to make this successful, I had to put myself against the wall so I have no backup to. To fall back into.

What's the phrase? Burn the boats. Right. If I'm gonna. What is it? The Vikings are gonna invade England? They. They burn the boats. You. There's no going back. We gotta. We gotta go.

Exactly.

So you and I offline part of this we talked about, like, say I've helped people kind of get a bunch of calls set up for their business. Their accountant who wants to sell some fractional cfo. Maybe we show them a Way to get some traffic, some leads in. They get some calls in their calendar, and then they get scared. They claim up. Maybe they're afraid to, like, ask what they're worth or they're afraid to get on the call, or what if they say no? Or it comes time to drop the price of the investment and they say less than they should? Right. All those are driven by fear. If I'm looking for a way or two to try and reframe that fear or get out of that, what are some good strategies that maybe I could use or maybe someone listening could use so I get out of that fear to be able to make those calls? Because I know you spent a year not making them, so something had to change. So tell me, tell me how you get past that now, because clearly you're not at that point anymore. What if I was at that point? What if someone listening is at that point? What do we do?

So how it helped me was, say, using the example of the calls that I was making in real estate, I was. I didn't have an experience. And for you guys, I think that you guys are coming in from kind of similar kind of industry from accountant to cfo. So you do have some tangible experience in the same industry. And what I would recommend is really think about, stack yourself proof of how you did well in your previous position. And what do I mean by that is I was working with my own coach and I wanted to raise the price of my own coaching program. And she told me is if I was so scared of the price that I wanted to raise up, basically I wanted to raise like more than double the price. The reason I was so scared, because I was focusing on myself. I was focusing on myself of what do people think if I raise that price? And are they going to think I'm a fraud? Are they going to think I'm not providing enough value? The fear came from focusing on myself. And when she turned this around for me, she said, think about the transformation that you're going to create in your clients. And I'm like, holy cow, that's so easy. I have proof of the transformations I've done in the past. So for you guys who are in this path of turning into a new position and even a new business for yourself, think about in your past position, moments that you were proud of that you were able to help somebody make a transformation or have a light bulb moment, or moments that you were just proud, maybe even of the report that you wrote and anything, and really stack those positive proof of how you made A difference for yourself. And then that's when you can know or feel that confidence, say, oh, yeah, I've done this. I'm a badass in the past. So when you fill yourself with those proofs for you, then you change the story that, yes, you can create a transformation that you want rather than focusing on yourself of what are they going to think of me? I feel like an imposter. The fear only comes when you're focused on yourself.

Interesting. So it sounds like, if I'm hearing this correctly, I'll give an example of someone who joined the program, Right. And she quit her job, and she's never sold or worked for herself, ever. And it's her first kind of sales call opportunities. Right. And so the first thing is, what would be helpful for her is like, look back, like, all right, have I done this before? Well, yeah, I did it for my clients when I worked at the accounting firm. Okay. How many times have I done it? More times than I have fingers. Okay. Those are some wins. How much money are these people going to be saving or, like, what kind of result I'm going to give them? Well, I've helped people save, I don't know, a hundred thousand dollars or two hundred thousand dollars a year. Okay. So there's like. Like, I've done it before. This is what I can do for other people. At this point, it's no longer like, all right, what are they going to think about me? Is it moving to the frame of, like, why wouldn't they buy this?

Yeah.

Right. Am I, like, understanding correctly?

That's absolutely right. And just to go back to my story of making those calls, So I was an engineering never, never made any sales calls at all, ever. I was always behind the computer. Right?

Yeah.

So that was completely brand new. And when I was able to stack myself the proof of, I made transformation. And that was two complete industries that we're talking about. Right. I was just stacking myself the proof of how I made transformation, or at least some sort of a difference in my previous job. And then I was telling me myself the story that if these people don't pick up, my call is their loss because I have a good deal for them.

Okay.

Yeah.

So.

So that's what transformed for me. Yeah.

I can imagine towards now, I'm sure you pick up a call and you don't even blink. You're like, all right, I'm ready to go. There's not even like an issue now.

Right.

Okay. How many calls do you think it took you until you got that level of comfortability.

I think the switch really happened quite fast because. So there is a difference between changing your story in your mind to give yourself that confidence. And then once you have that confidence, then there's a practice and the repetition to kind of think about. If they say that, oh, I can say that the next time, right? So that comes with time. But the first thing of how to find that confidence before you even maybe have any track record on the sales calls is change your story of. And that's what I use for myself is if they don't pick up as their loss, because I have my own proof already. Right? And then the repetition, and that's where your training definitely helps, is you give them all of maybe the scenarios of this happens, right? This is how you can handle it. And, and that's where the repetition comes from. But then you won't be able to even dive into the repetition or even use those repetitions before you're able to find that confidence for yourself to even take that first step.

Okay, gotcha. So confidence gives me taking the first step and then maybe guides experience a little bit. Handholding takes me the next couple steps. And then after those combined, at this point, like, you know, they're easy for me, they're easy for you to take. But for people just starting out, oh, my gosh, that's scary. So a lot of people in my program are taking brand new actions, right? Maybe they've never sold themselves as a fractional cfo, or maybe they've like taken referral calls, but they've never taken like, marketing calls, which, by the way, there's a huge difference. If you're listening, you're like, oh, I take four sales calls a month. I take four referrals. That's not a sales call. Those people know I can trust you. Or there's like an implied social capital exchange from somebody else. A sales call is a stranger. And at the end of. The end of the conversation, you're getting them to sign an engagement letter asking them for a credit card. Very different experience. I just, I always have to point that out because people are like, I'm great at sales. And then you find out they've actually never taken a real sales call. You got some work. So if people are learning something new and trying something new, like how do I get them to take more action and lean into it bigger? Burn the boats is one for sure. What's like the. The next thing to like, really propel people into going bigger on doing something new?

Hmm. That's a very good question. So what's coming to my mind right now is these three steps of basically how to do anything new. And one thing that I like to tell myself is, it's not difficult, but it's just new. And let me start off with a story is think about when you first got that job of maybe being in accounting with. When you first started, did you know of everything that you know nowadays? Right.

I just knew that I knew nothing. I was like, I'm ready to learn. I'm a sponge. Give me the books. I just know I'm gonna ask a lot of questions. And that's it.

Right. And so with this new venture, just bringing yourself back into the same place where you're a new beginner again, and then you're starting another venture of learning and growing on that learning curve. And really, anything that is new, it could be scary because your mind goes alert, alert. Something's new. Right. Something could be threatening to our system. And basically how we calm that is these three steps. So first one is change your state. So by tapping into your physiology. So one thing that I like to do is stand up at the desk, and that immediately changes your state.

Okay.

Right. And then the next step, second step is to change your story. So if you recognize that you're telling yourself, holy crap, holy crap, holy crap, I'm scared, I'm scared, I'm scared.

They're lucky to talk to me. This is. I'm gonna help them so much, they'd be a fool not to buy this story.

Exactly. Exactly. So change your story. And then the third thing is to use the strategy that you've already been taught by a coach like. Like Charles, where he has the experience and really follow the tips and tricks from a mentor who's already been through that path. Because who else better to learn from anybody else who's been on the same path and have already achieved what you want to achieve? Right? So the three steps. So state story and strategy, and just rinse and repeat. Basically, every time that you hit something that you're fearful of, something that's new for you, recognize that your state needs to be changed first. Right. And then the next thing is really tap into the story that you're telling yourself in the head. What. What am I telling myself? What's making me really scary? Am I telling myself that I. I'm not good enough or I haven't practiced enough or I need to. To. I need to look more into the trainings or that's analysis paralysis. So does that story help you? And kind of going back to how can you stack yourself proof of what you've ever done well, and then find that confidence again?

Okay, perfect. I. I love that. I love the S cube. So state story strategies.

Yeah.

Okay, that's cool. So I basically, I'm changing the outside, I'm changing the inside, and I'm just going off of an established path that's already been ran by somebody else. So I can, especially if I get really nervous, turn off my brain and just follow the script, follow the process. I really like that. I feel like it's funny. A lot of times I learned something really, really sharp like that, and then I think about it, I'm like, oh, that kind of sounds obvious, but I realize, like, they're natural things that we know to do, but if we don't consciously flip the switch or turn that on, we don't actually do it. But when you say it out loud, you're like, duh, why wouldn't you do that? Well, actually, I haven't done that or because I haven't thought of, like, the process. It's just those are the things that I would do if I knew how to do it or knew when to turn it on. And if you're in fight or flight mode, or you're scared or you're anxious, you don't have to be able to turn on anything other than, oh, shoot, this is scary.

Exactly.

So when I first start working with people, one of the first things I do is I make them put all their clients in a sheet and list their hours, their services, what they can upsell, scope, delivery, cost of delivery. And usually people are not charging what they want to be charging or what they should be, or frankly, even what they deserve. Right. Usually that means they have to raise their prices. And it is terrifying for people to do so. I mean, terrifying. Now, mind you, I've done this way more dimes than I fingers, way more times than I can count. And every single time people are earning about 30 to 50% more, the bottom 10% of your clients go away. So you're actually. You're working less and you're earning more. Done it a ton of times. It's exactly what happens. We just go over portfolio for some people to get them to go through this process, it is so scary that it takes two or three sessions. They're like, hey, did you send the letter? Did you send the email? Did you send the price up right, Charles, what's going on? And so how can I get them to believe in themselves and get them to go to this new Pricing structure that they. They know. They. They know that they deserve. They know it's market. They have someone who's holding their hand, right? Like, they got the strategy right. They're here a little bit about this, the. The. The. The story, right? Like, they. They know what's going on. They got a little bit of the state. They're like, I even have to ask them, like, do you do a good job compared to most people in your field? They're like, oh, yeah, I do. Well, most people charge more than you. Like, I almost feel like I just want to give him a hug and be like, come here, come here. And so how do you break people out of that? Do you have, like a story or example? Like, have you ever struggled with that?

For sure. So mentioned a little earlier, the coaching program that I first started off with, it was 197. And because I did not believe in myself.

Wait, a month? One time.

It was a one time for six weeks.

How often were you meeting with them live?

Once a week?

What?

So six times everything was live?

What?

Yep, Yep.

That. That's like 6,000. $6,000. Not. Not. Okay, all right, all right. We all start somewhere. That's fine.

Really.

It's not the case.

I might need to rinse and repeat what I'm about to tell you, but I want to be vulnerable and really kind of tell you guys how I started. I've been coaching people around me, my friends, my colleagues, my employees for years. Because once I learned these tools, I felt so natural and so compelled to just use them to anybody who comes up to me and say, hey, I'm having issues at home or whatever, wherever, right? And then when I first started in the business, to actually charge for coaching services, that's the price I came up with.197. And I remember my friend, he bought my course out of the thinking of, I'm just going to help her support her, but not really wanting to know what I was about to teach. And that says a lot, actually, because maybe because of the pricing that I put, right, the lower the price, the less value you see the product, right? So he ended up coming to my course every six weeks. He was there, and the feedback that he gave me was so overwhelming. He's like, suzanne, your course is beautiful. And the transformation that he even received, like, he's a very high level, very advanced kind of mindset guy. He's done so many of his trainings, so even I thought, like, what is he gonna learn from me? But when he told me, he's like, oh, my God. Like, you showed me things that I didn't even think about before. And he's like, people who took this first round of your course, they got a freaking good deal. Oh, really? Right. And that was a story that I was sharing with you earlier that wanted more than double the price, and I probably could even make it more now. So now the price of the program is 497, and that was more than double. And I was freaking out. I was telling my coach, I'm like, I don't know. I was like, I was even thinking, should I do 397.

Negotiate with them? I don't know.

I don't know. And that was really what's going on in my mind, and that's what my coach shared with me, is focus on their transformation. Right. That the result that you already have. And another thing that she really helped me understand is the price does not define you as the person. Yeah, you are priceless. And I'm getting goosebumps as I saying that. Everybody is so worthy to receive a million dollars or more. There's no price to you and your experience and your knowledge and your patience and however you serve your clients. Right. That is priceless. We cannot put a number to that, and we have to look at it to dissociate the price number to your own personal value. Right. And when I learned that, I'm like, okay, well, even if I were to put out an entry level, I don't know if you guys do that in your funnel, like an entry level, kind of maybe a lower price to. For a newer lead and then increase the price up that way. And I'm like, well, even the lower price doesn't define me because I'm priceless. So that helped me understand that whatever number that I put out has nothing to do with me. And so that disassociate that. That connection to that number a little bit. But, yeah, that's how. That's how I did. I doubled my price, and I think I can still increase it a little bit more. I'll just reuse what I just told you guys. That's.

That's the cool thing, though, is, like, every time you. You start something, like, I first started doing what I was doing, and my first client, I charged a lot. I didn't want her. I didn't want her. Right. I was a fractional cfo. I was like, I'm too good for this. The small business can't afford me. Let me show you how smart I am. It's going to be $7,500 a month for three months paid right now. And she's like, okay, wow, all right. Maybe I figured out something. I realized, like, I said the most absurd thing that I possibly could ever say in my mind, and she was like, great. How do I pay? Yeah, what? Excuse me? And so I didn't have any attachment to price because I didn't think it was real. I didn't think someone would pay me to do that. Like, granted, I had a really good job and I earned well above that every month, but there was like, this was like a small business. And I've never liked, at that time, sold fractional C services to anyone else. And really, like, someone convinced me to go take the call and was like, ah, maybe you can help this lady out. And I just want to tell them, told you it wasn't worth my time. And so it's funny, price wasn't connected, like, to me, but it was because I. I thought that that was absurd. I thought that who would ever pay that? Cause it was like, it was like five hours a month worth of work. Like, it was. It was not bad. They got a really good result, and that's why they said yes. But the actual, like, effort was low on my part. I just was using my brain and not my hands. And so that was like, one of the biggest transformations for me was people buy results, you know, and maybe the results are part of me or my story or some of the background. And so that's the only way I got into charging higher prices. And when I think about it, the amount of value that someone receives, regardless of whatever they pay, is always well above that. So nobody's ever upset afterwards. They're always like, oh, this is good, I would do this again. And so getting past a lot of that barrier when people do have thoughts about prices or whatever they do is really hard. And so I got there accidentally. But it still took me a while to realize, like, not only was I worth that, but also, like, the dollars aren't attached to my value as a human. My value as a human is, can I help? Can I serve other people and my leader, my community? Not do I have lots of zeros or no zeros in my bank account? And I think oftentimes we forget that. And now that I have more zeros than I used to, I actually care about those zeros a lot less. It's more of, like, how can I help someone else? And so I totally, totally get what you were saying. I really appreciate kind of having you here. How can people find out more about you, right? Like they'd be like, I want more Suzanne in my life. Like how do they get ahold of you?

So my Instagram handle is underscore Suzanne Lee. And I'm sure Charles will put it in the show notes somewhere down in the link below. And one thing that I wanted to share a little bit more as I was listening to your story is if I were in your shoes, where I would just put out a price out there and then somebody accepted immediate thought to me was holy crap, how am I going to deliver? Right?

I mean that was thought number two. That was number two. Number one was wow. Number two was oh shoot, yeah.

Oh shit, now I have to deliver.

You got me.

And then as I was thinking through, I'm like, how am I going to answer that question? And what you just mentioned is perfect. It's focus on the value that you bring to the customer, right? And one thing that I'm also learning as well is like create your price. Say Your price is $1,000 and I think you guys price are even higher. And think about the value that you bring. You're supposed to bring 10 times more value to the person of however you're going to help them. And I think just like what you were saying Charles, is by you focusing on helping them and forgetting about like kind of like the reward that you're going to get in the back end, that's what going to help you bring the value to the people and that's the that they're going to perceive from you because you're a good listener or because you care about them, because you truly want to help them in their financial situation. So I think that's a good point of like just focusing on the value that you bring to the customer.

Yeah. Thank you, thank you, I appreciate it. So it was awesome to have you on. Would love to have you come back on again. Maybe some, some things for inside of the community that I run. If you want to get a hold of her, just underscore Suzanne Lee on Instagram. If you want more information content like this, you can look me up Charles Lakoff or Profit Surge Group Instagram or the URLs for either one of those. Thanks guys, we will see you later.

See you later.