🦷🔩 2B in less than 5 years with mario kern

Welcome to another CEO Wisdom podcast. We have Mario Kern with us today. He is CEO and founder at EAP Abutments. We're going to talk about abutments which are this metal piece between the gums and the. The tooth. It's really cool. Maybe I can share my screen to show you a bit more what it looks like with the first time I ever read this word. My granddad was a dentist, but yeah, very useful as the com. The biocompability compatibility between this, the artificial tooth if you want and you know, the gums and the body might not always be a fit. And Mario invented and patented a process and is now selling it in the US and all over the world through this new company called EAP Abutments. I'm saying new, I mean it's been five years in the making, but yeah, he's just begun selling internationally there. So without further ado, this podcast is brought to you by podpire.com if you want to start scale, be invited to podcast or even find sponsors to your podcast. Podpire is my podcasting agencies. You can go to podpire.com Mario, can you tell us a bit more about yourself and a bit more about EAP abutments?

Yes. Great. Thank you for your invitation. I am a dentist. I have a private dental practice since 15 years and I have invented a new kind of abutment for dental implants. An abutment is the clutch between a dental implant and the ground and is the connection, the connecting piece. And you have two kind of abutments in the worldwide market. You have on one side abutments which are great for the biocompatibility and the other ones are great for the aesthetics. And yeah, you see the, in the, in the picture, you see this one, this is only a stock abutment. We now make it only patient specific and it looks like a cup. So if you see on the left side, the gum is moving a little bit. With the standard abutments you see all the titanium there. And with our form we have a cup. You can remove the thin wall of titanium and polish it and put it back. And then the right side you see the aesthetic appearance and that's great because when you see that you move also the toxic resin from the bone level to the mouse. And that's great because the dental resins we are using are very toxic. They damaging the DNA. And for you have to the. The. What we have done is we have combined the two gold standards on the worldwide market to one product. So we have put all benefits together without the bad things. And that's called ERB Abutment.

Right. And I was suspecting that for quite a while. I mean, I'm a biohacker myself. My first business was a supplement for the brain. So I' always been very knowledgeable about the body and hacking this body to perform better and my mind as well. And yeah, like every time I saw these folks with is it aluminum, is it gold? Like with these metals in the mount, I thought like, yeah, this must be leaking at some level or the body must be like, what the heck is that? So there must be damages there. I remember also I had braces on my side and they left me with a wire behind the. The tooth, which is kind of a scam, right, because you, you buy the braces and then they're like, yeah, you'll have to keep this wire for life, you know, but yeah, isn't white. Isn't this why I bought braces? Anyway, so I and I removed it because it was accumulating also a bunch of bacterias. So, yeah, I suspected that for a while. Now tell us about the business itself. You've been five years of that and you're only starting to sell and commercialize it right now. Is that the reality?

Yes, we have, we have. The beginning was from 2008. We have a study in 2012 we had the patent, the beginning of the patent. And 2017 I wanted to sell my patent, but it was too difficult to produce it. And in 2019 I had all the process to make it my own. And we were starting on 2020 on and then we had Corona Covid and we made a full stop for that. And now we are starting again because we have to go to our clients, we have to go to our dental technicians and to the dentists. And we have beginning to sell in Europe and we have the proof of market for that. And in January this year, we founded the ERB Abutments Inc. In the US And I think next year, in the spring, we will sell ERP Abutments in the US and we have. Yeah, go ahead.

Sorry.

Yeah, sorry. We have. It's a really big business because we are talking about of $6 billion a year. And that's a great business. And we have, we have, we have a new kind of, of treat patients. Not only the product we have on Covid, you see that all processes and all the digital ways are much more efficient. So we do not only sell a product, we also sell the dental digital process. And for that process, the dentist is saving about 90 to 95% of his treatment. Time. And so it's not only a product which helps you as a dentist, also dental lab. It's also good big benefits for the patient. And. Yes. And there's no reason not to use ERB apartments. The reason why nobody knows us because we are too young for that at the moment. So that's the reason that's a great opportunity for us to speak with you that everybody knows about months. And that's great.

So $6 billion total addressable market a year worldwide.

Yeah.

Okay. And let's say that you, you'd want 1% of that market. 5%.

No, we want 30 for that because. Yeah, it's not, it's, it's, it's only a matter of time. Not that the dentists are using UV abutments because all dentists is knowing about the problems with the resines on the bone level. And, but you can think about that. There are 30 years, no innovation for that. For 30 years you have a compromise between aesthetic and biocompatibility. And that's not a good thing for both sides for the patient and for the dentist. But when you have the choice as a dentist and as a patient, you are choosing the aesthetic way. That's a normal thing. But with ERB abutments you have both together. And if the dentist is knowing that he will use it. So it's only a matter of time to use EB abutments and your patent protected.

So I guess that is your moat. Before I dive into like how you might get 30% of that market, let's call it, over a period of 5 to 10 years. How much should I pay if I break a tooth? Let's say, and I want it fully replaced. I want to not have any health problems and I want it to look good. How much do I pay for the abutment and how much do I pay for the service of installation?

Yeah, I can tell you in Europe which prices we have. We have about €4,000, about 4, $4,000. It doesn't matter. And our product abutment is $193. So it's not a big deal. It's about $50 more than the competition is. But you save much more time, you save much more esthetic and also which is a great benefit. You do not need the skills you, you have before because it's very easy to handle the soft tissue and the red white aesthetics. So it looks much more better and much more easier. It's, it's, it's, it is much more easier to handle.

So 4,200 in total for the for one tooth, right?

One, yes. And I think for two.

How much would it be?

Double. Double. You can double it.

Okay. Yeah. Or maybe a bit of discount quote unquote. And my insurance covers most of it if I'm Canadian, let's say.

Okay, I think so, yeah. If you have a private insurance, it's not a big deal. And the difference is in Austria it's only a private thing. The insurance doesn't pay it. You have to pay it your own. And it depends on which country you are. For example, if you are in Canada, maybe they pay it in US maybe not. It depends on which country you are and which is the system you are in dentistry.

And what's the alternative? How much should I pay for the classic. What would be these options? The prices and the potential problems with these.

Yeah, that's not really a big deal. About 50 bucks for that. And it's not possible to compare it a little bit because if you're using ERB apartment you have a patient specific part you have not a stock part. So all parts are made for the patient itself. So if you have an implant, all implants are looking different because they have a different angle. They have the high to the bone is different. So you always need to remodel it to fit it in the mouse. And with ERB abutments you have a finished product. The dentist or the dental lab is designing that everything fits perfectly. So you also have. That's a bit, we go a little bit deeper. It's called a one abutment, one time concept. So you don't touch healing wound because you have, you want that the cells are attaching to the titanium so you don't, you don't move the, the abutment always away. If you do that in the, in the old style, you have about five to eight appointments and it takes about 20 weeks to, to treat the patients. So if you're using abutments, you treat your patients in five minutes. So five minutes. Yeah.

Can you prove also the toxicity of these, of the normal case of the classic procedure? Like where has science proven that?

Yes, we have. And, and we have a, a big, a big study studies about that. The dental ro no choice. You have to use it. And the difference is also when you're using for example a ti base, it's a, it's a very small, small surface to stitch the titanium with with the crown, it's very small. And with ERP abutments you have a big surface to, to glue it together. And that's also, and we also have A feather edge for that. So a feather edge is much more better than you put it together with, with a flat, with a platform. So all that stuff, we know that, but there's no way to remove it and there's no product to use it. So with ERB Apartments you have also a new product which is, yeah, it's the best way to treat your patients at the moment. And you can use everything. We are a system open so you can use your own implant system. And if we have integrated the system in our product, you can use it and it takes about two or three months to integrate up a new kind of a new abutment system. So we are very flexible for that. So you don't have to change your implant system, you don't have to change your workflow. You only are ordering at Erb apartment. That's all you have to do. And so you have all the benefits and you can step by step can put all the benefits together if you want. And if you don't want, if you want to treat your patients like before or you can use ERP Apartments because you can change that subsequently. So in maybe in three years or five years, you have any problems, you can change it. And that's great because with other products it's not possible.

Yeah, I get that. How did you get the idm? How did you test that your concept was working and how did you get the patent?

Yeah, I was, I was working in my, in my private practice and I was treating about 2,000 patients for, with type base. And first I thought I'm the hero because I put all together. I have one about my one time concept and I was thinking, yes, that's great. And after two years I have big troubles. And I was just first thinking that that's what was my fault. So I was talking to my wife, I was talking to my colleagues and everybody was telling yes, we have problems, but we don't know why. And then I make a study about that. I made 180 electronic microscopic images about that. And I was searching the problem and what we have seen is that the biggest problem we have is the resin is the gap between the titanium base and the ceramics. And then I was thinking about that and I was thinking how I can remove the gap, the glue joint maximum to the mouse in every situation and maybe I can make more surface to glue it together. And that's what we have done. And then I was first, I was making many prototypes in my, my, my office. I have a turning machine for that. A very simple thing. And just Yeah, I just make some, some, some, some ways, I tell you some ways. So, so we have many, many failures about that because it's very difficult to make the titanium very thin because we don't want a thick titanium because it's very, very hard to modify it. So I want it very thin. And then I invented a new kind of production line. I make a CD printing for that in very thin and then we mill it in a very accurate way. And that's. We have made that. And for the patent, it was a hard way because it took me for the first 15 years, I think, I don't know exactly. And for the second, we have two patents for that. The first one is for the product, it looks like a cup. And the second one is for, for how we produce it. And so we have also granted in, in, in Australia, the second one and in Russia and I think us, Canada, Brazil, Israel and they will follow. So we have a big, big amount of, of countries which we have. Yeah.

And who is your first tester? Who was your first lab rat?

I don't remember really because I treat my patients in the best way and I think my own way. I have treated about 500 patients with that technique and outside we have about 350 to 400, I don't know exactly in the Europe market. And I think they all are very happy with that system because I have a woman which she was breaking his hand, her hand and it was very difficult to clean. And yes, it was terrible after that because you have all the plug, you have everything the gum was removing. And then I screwed away only the crown with the abutment. They are all together. And then I removed the thin wall of titanium, polished it and put it back. And we have, you can think about it could be at the beginning you insert the, the abutment and then you see that, that titanium, then you can remove it. And it's always, you have always the discussion between the dental lab with the patient whose fault it was. It doesn't matter because it takes you five minutes and nothing else. And if you have the, the regular way you use the stock abutment or also a patient specific apartment with a full body of titanium, you have to make a new abutment, you have to make a new crown, you have to make a new imp. It's terrible. So it's, it's very, it's for both sides. Not, not as good as it should, as it should be.

And you had to pass some health certification from the government level, right?

No, it's, it's. We have in, in. In Europe it's like you, you don't need a certification for that. You only can validate the process. Because when we don't have a product at the moment, we only know the product. If the lab is ordering, then we know how it looks like. And so we have a guideline how to produce this. We have a guideline how it should be. And that's the same way we make it in the US and in Europe they have forgotten it a little bit. So with the 3D printing you are very good in mass production. But you have to. The material has to be safe, the process has to be safe. Everything has for. For the, for the patient and for the dentist and also for us as a company. So it was really a really hard way to go there. But everything is documented and we have all that stuff we need and in US it's the, it's. It's really. It's a little bit easier for us because we have guidelines to do that. And so we have to, to do with guidelines. And then we know, okay, we make some step one, step two, step three and it's, it's for us it's easier a little bit. That's the reason why we, we are starting to the US market at the beginning because yeah, you know, we have the, the MDR in Europe and oil is, is complicated at the moment.

Well, last question. Say that you want to acquire $2 billion in five to 10 years from now as a startup. What's your go to market plan?

Yes, we have, we. It's no secret. We are searching an investment but we have all finished. We only search for, for salesforce at the beginning. We have no salesforce. But with talking to the colleagues they are using that. So we are growing I think very fast. We can manage the production line from Europe. We do a second one in the US market if we have the certification, the FDA clearance for that. And I think we can manage a huge amount of ordering. And so you have to go outside to the dentists. And we have in Europe we have a big company, it's called Dent again there are 700 over 700 dental labs and about 5,000 to 7,000 dentists. And so we can spread and the only thing we have to do is we have to educate the dentists in. It's a very easy way. We have webinars, we have do all that stuff. Every dentist know it's not a new thing you have to do. I only have to tell you please use EB apartments and not the stock apartments. Or the other apartments and then I tell you five or six points you have to look at and everything is fine.

Well, Mario, thank you for showing up today. Where can people find out more about you?

Sorry, I've not. Not here.

Where can people find out more about you?

The apartment. I don't hear it.

Yeah. Your company and the above.

Yeah. Abutments. Yes, everything. So I've, I've missed it. Abutments. You, you find it on at the moment only in Europe and in spring you will find it on eaputments.com you can search a little bit it at the moment it's in German but when we go to the US market it's all in English and yeah, you have an English translation.

I actually use it. So thank you for that. My name is Charles Cormier. I'm host of ceowisdompodcast. Com that was Mario Kern and if you need help for your podcast you can go to podbuyer. Com.