Abby Gates - Founder @ Sproutwise

Welcome to another Founder Wisdom podcast. We have Abby Gates with us. She's a founder at Sproutwise, that is, she's a startup advisor, she's a People Ops leader, Detroit superfan in Franklin, Michigan, in which she was a trustee of the Village of Franklin. We're gonna start about, we're gonna talk about that today. So Abby, welcome to the pod. Tell us a bit more about yourself, what you've been up to.

Charles, thanks for having me. I just wanted to say thanks for getting this set up, and it's an honor to get to chat with you. Your backgrounds and the kinds of things you've done have just been incredible to learn about before, so just a genuine thank you. Yeah, I think you've covered a lot of ground in that intro. I do live just outside of Detroit, and I'm actually sitting sitting outside today, which is probably ill-advised given it's going to be north of 100 degrees here in, um, in Michigan today. Um, but yeah, I, I founded Sprout Wise 3 years ago this week, actually, and so I'm, I'm feeling a bit reflective on that journey. Um, as you mentioned, I am a publicly elected official, which is a journey in and of itself, and there's probably an entire hour of time we could spend talking about the, the saga and the adventures of serving in a public capacity in the US in 2026. And, um, on top of that, I, I do quite a bit of working with early-stage companies and encouraging entrepreneurship as a— let's call it a grassroots advocate. So entrepreneurship to me is, is as personal an endeavor as it is a professional one.

Nice. And where did you start it, right? Like, what was your first entrepreneurial experience?

It truly was as a bystander. I was a part of the journey, but I've been working with early-stage companies for the better part of 16, 17 years. And so for me, making that move from working in a more standard, standard corporate environment into these early-stage companies, it was a complete 180 for the way that my brain thought at that time, because the sheer depth and the breadth of working with companies at that stage, let's call it like Series A or certainly sub-100 people, it became clear that the rule we followed was if you suggest it, congratulations, you've given yourself a new project to solve for it. And so it was this feverish pace of problem solving and the opportunity to think and solve problems that either one had never been approached or thought of before, and two, just by virtue of having a very limited amount of people to actually do the solving, It became this insane acceleration of learning in my own career. So it is— it has been the, the, the persistent through line of the last 16 years of my life is working with companies like that. So I think by working with these companies at all, at some point it became an option for me personally, which is what I decided to do 3 3 years ago in founding Sproutwise.

I see Google here, I see Answers, um, ADP. Of course, you've worked like with giants alongside startups, right? Like, what have you found, um, there in the, the recruiting culture of things?

Yeah, I, I have worked for a lot of companies. I think, um, like I've lost count. It's been that many. And you're right, like, you take these gigantic corporations like an ADP— or actually, I had started working with, um, a, a very large private recruiting firm called Aerotek when I'd graduated from school, and, you know, presence in probably all 50 states. It was just gigantic. Um, but having— and then at some point had the chance to work with Google, so it became, you know, that was the, the bar, right? Like, that was the employee-centric torchbearer of what happens if you create an environment that people want to work with, so much so that they clamor for the opportunity to do so. And you juxtapose that with these companies that are at, you know, 100 people. It's just a completely different mindset. There's no brand recognition. There's no scenario where I slide a business card on the table and someone says, "Oh gosh, you know, Salvi." They're doing amazing things, and I would love the opportunity. So for us, it meant, how can we achieve without the, you know, the billions of dollars of revenue, achieve the type of interest and excitement for working with these large-scale organizations, knowing that we're not there, we will not be for the foreseeable future, but there is this opportunity to capture the intrigue and interest in working in this very different way. So it was using experiences at those large companies in order to inform Well, how do we replicate those things in a way that there will be certain people that want to work for companies like that? And who are they? How do we identify them? And also, how do we encourage the inclination to stretch and, and do work that they probably didn't think was possible in their careers?

And what was the signal that you knew you had to leave corporate to start your own firm?

There were a lot of personal reasons, honestly. I talk a lot about this personal character trait of mine. I love, or at least I love now, this expression of vulnerability. It's something I explore very freely. And, you know, for the first 15 years of my career, I think I had a lot of shame about it. I didn't see that modeled in leaders that I admired or organizations where I'd worked. And so I, for a long time, thought it didn't have a home in organizations where I'd said, you know, "This is hard," or "I don't know how to do this thing," or "I'm not sure I am capable of this in this moment. I'm burnt out." Like all of these things that I now know by naming them, it invites other people to do the same thing. But I think I reached a point in my career where these things that were very, very important to me in my personal life finally came into conflict with this career that I loved. But I just didn't know how I could do both of those things at the same time. So I remember it was around the time my mom had been put in hospice care. I, along with a couple of my siblings, were her primary caregivers. My children were young, and I was also working with this startup that was based in Melbourne, Australia. And so between the time difference, the 14 to 16 hour time difference, and the time sensitivity of a loved one being in hospice care. And my kids are, I think, were like 4 and 6 at the time. And I think between all of those things, it was, I can't do this all at the same time. And it also was this notion of, I'd seen entrepreneurship from afar, but could that be me? I think I more seriously considered that as an option too. Try to have this balance that I, I'd looked, I'd looked for, I wanted for such a long time, but it felt out of, out of my reach. And so, um, it was through my husband's and, and twin sister's encouraging. They were like, why don't you do that? You've talked about it for so long. You're clearly in conflict personally and, and feeling this great vulnerability in these big, big areas of your life, so why not you? Why don't you do it? And so I think for at that point it became this permission I gave myself to say, okay, if I was going to, what would it look like? And it was then baby steps thereafter to establish Sproutwise.

And you feel that was hard to do with corporations or companies you've been part of because they pretty much gave you everything and they made it comfy for you? Is it real, this phenomenon of golden handcuffs?

It is. There, there is such comfort in the idea of safety, right? Like, even now, I think, at, you know, as an entrepreneur, revenue forecasting is something I have to consider. And are we on pace with that, or have I considered capacity planning? These are all of the things over the last 3 years I've had to teach myself. And so those were not even on my radar working for corporations. For that, it was Here's a large base salary. Here is benefits that will be there that are figured out by someone else. Here are resources around me helping me to solve for these, these things I am not naturally inclined to solve for. So there is some, some real— it is a real phenomenon of is the devil I know better than the one I don't? And so, and for me, it took this very large event in my personal life for it to be, for me to get to that point of saying, is that worth it? But yeah, I think for the first 18 years of my career, you chase the growth within your role and that becomes the ceiling. And at some point I'd ask myself, well, what if it isn't? What if there is this other opportunity to do work in a very different way? But I think there are a lot of people I've spoken with in the last 3 years who similar to me, have thought a long time about doing their own kind of work, hanging a shingle, starting an organization, or founding something that felt like it drove them, it fulfilled them, but they stopped short because of the fear of certainty and safety.

Was part of being a member of CHIEF influential to growing these guts to start your own company? Because there's a lot of power women in there. Lots of women with guts. Were you inspired by some of them?

I think so. I think much like these steps that I've taken in my career, I can, I can see this breadcrumb trail and I can follow it back pretty distinctly and thinking, you know, initially it's, I want to be a part of that, but do I actually belong? And so I remember I had approached my CEO at the time who was a just an emphatic supporter of not just me, but everyone on his team. So it was seeing myself through the lens of someone who believed in me before I already did. And we talked about me joining Chief, and for him it was, "And of course, of course you should be there." So it was, "Okay, I'm going to get involved with this organization." And I think when I joined it, it's, my gosh, everyone here is more impressive than the next. I'm having discussions with people who who were in rooms I only dreamed of joining at some point in my career, and I'm here now. So I do think that was a part of it. I don't know if I'd attribute that as being the tipping point, but I think being amongst people I'd once only admired, I think, was certainly a step in that direction.

Tell me about the 3 years at Sproutwise so far. Like, how's it been? Stressful? Challenging? Um, yeah, tell me about the experience.

I'm getting like squirmy over here because it's like, yeah, all of the above. Um, I, I, I often talk about this as far as each year and in a chunk of time and, and where, where was I at mentally and emotionally. And year one, it was just— I, I was just excited to be in the game. I was excited to be on the team. And, um, my gosh, everything was a possibility at that point in time. So it— I don't know, it's, it's almost So when I explain the journey of someone starting with an organization, when we talk about building that structurally for Sproutwise, we often talk about it in terms of conscious or unconscious competency or, I think it's consciously competent, competence. So year 1, it was unconscious incompetent. I did not know what I didn't know. And so it was just sheer excitement at that stage of the game. And then once it became viable, once it became something thing that I knew that one, it was very, very important to me, but two, it became viable. And then it became conscious incompetence. So year two was this timeframe of, oh my gosh, it's, it's mine. It is like a child. And now I'm hyperprotective over it. And now it became every mistake and every misstep became that much more significant and, and becoming hyperprotective over it. And so then it became, you know, the mistakes felt like they held so much more gravity. And now I was, I was, I was in it. And so it became a time of great learning. It became surrounding myself with coaches to solve for some of the things I was thinking about, mentors. It was trading my love of fiction books and it's. And it's a great love for books of others who were in my shoes. Because at that point, it became, how do I find a community of people who are thinking about these things? Because most of my friends are not entrepreneurs. My husband is not an entrepreneur. My family all work in standard corporate environments. And so who could I talk to? So it became this, I know what I want to learn. I know I'm not there, but how do I get there? So community became an important part of that. And then this year, it's sort of a settling into the structure I've built for the company and seeing some acceleration of, OK, now we've got a starting line. We've got goals. We have codified things like KPIs and have some structure around our own work. And the irony is not lost on me that our very mission is to help founders create the organizations that they themselves set out to build for their teams. And yet it's a journey I am quite literally on at the very same time as we're doing that work with companies.

And talking about community, you're trustee of the village of Franklin. Why did you make that decision? And how was that your stint in Baltics?

Gosh, Charles, I've asked myself this question a whole lot over the past year and a half. So when I graduated from college, and I'll keep this part of my journey short, I have a degree in history and political science. So at that time, it was I was sure I was going to take the LSAT and go on to law school and practice law somewhere. And, um, and then over time, obviously, my career has gone in a very different direction, but, um, being of service is still a very clear area that is important to me, whether it's within organizations as I do professionally or just in general. And so running for office was my version of how can I extend that service more formally into the community where my kids are growing up. And, and I know you have children as well. I think you've got a, a very young baby. But something flipped in me as a parent where it becomes, how do I leave this better than how I found it? Because my children are now going to be residents of this, of this place that again has become very important to us. And I can either complain about the things that are not up to, um, the standard we would all want, or I could do something to help change it in a very small way. So that was the impetus for running for office. Um, what has happened since is a crash course in municipal local politics, which is— goodness, it has probably shaved like years off my life at this point. But it's a, it's an interesting education.

Stressful? Like, people come to you with like their problems and you got to manage their stress, I, I'm guessing? Or try to, I don't know, take their angry feedback and produce something productive for all?

Yeah, it is a microcosm of the American political system, um, is, is the cleanest way I can say this. So yes, like, um, ideally that is, that is what we would do, um, and, um, and it is within a structure that is very different from the way that we work because we are elected. It is not a matter of You know, have we run afoul of a code of conduct or a handbook? Have I not performed in my role? And can I be terminated from my job? I'm an elected official. And so the, the way we work is so very different. And creating incentive structures, which is what we talk about in how we work with companies— how are you guiding good work to happen? It's, well, it's incentivizing either extrinsic or intrinsic things that are important to your team, or or it's a shared goal or making sure that you're on the same page. But the rules are quite different in politics. It is, and that's been a big learning for me as I figure out like, we've all agreed these things are important. Now, why can't we solve for them? And I think the impatience of having worked in startups has absolutely become something I've thought a lot about because that pace is not replicated everywhere. It is not replicated in local politics. We spent many hours, for instance, talking about putting stop signs at bus stops in this tiny little village of 3,500 people, just to put, you know, $200 stop signs when it seems so very clear that our kids go to school, they ride the bus, they're standing on a road. We would want motorists to slow down. Like, it seems that the rationale, rationale should hold. And yet the pace of decision-making and who needs to be involved in it could not be more different than what I'm used to. So yeah, it's—

But then there's old Ron with no kids and Ron wants to go fast. What do you say to Ron?

And that's where it becomes— that's where we try to incentivize behaviors, right, Ron? Like, absolutely understand that that's the case. Here are the considerations that we as elected officials have to consider. The makeup of our village is this, you know, the, the percentage of our population that are school-age children is this. And the statistics around crashes and/or, you know, some sort of events that happen where kids are injured or even worse are this. So it is incumbent upon us to think about this in this way, you know. So then it invites how can we as a collaborative force along with our citizens come up with solutions that everyone can either live with or support. It's just a longer-tail decision process to get everyone to come to the table. We can't unilaterally make those decisions as a body and, and not involve our citizens or those in charge of actually taking these policies and, and, and making them real, seeing them in action.

But if anyone would take that role, would be you, right? Because you work with so much humans and you can bring a efficiency. Have you thought of like rebuilding the system itself so that decisions are made faster without like jeopardizing democracy?

Yes, um, I have. Um, and you know, one of the things that we do to start the, the fiscal year is we go through budget exercises where we decide, um, where do we as a village want to invest our time, our dollars, um, and squaring that with priorities.. And so one of the things that, that I brought forward is a lot of the work we do, and I'll sort of gently tie this to Sproutwise, is there is this foundational layer of what are the rules governing our team? So, you know, in an organization, that might be something like a handbook or policy, a code of conduct, or things that appear in an offer letter, for instance, that say, here's what's acceptable and here's what's not acceptable. So at a foundational level, it's that. It's not fun work. It's not sexy. But it has to be done in order for the next step to happen, which is, now, what happens when people interact with those policies or rules? What happens if someone has a question about taking PTO, for instance? Where do they go? What's the, what's the advance notice they would need to give their manager? How much time is acceptable to take? Let's say, if we have a flexible PTO policy, it's all of these things that start to say, It's where rules meet culture and norms. And so as it relates to the Village of Franklin, it became at a foundational level, do those rules exist? Kind of, but not really. So it became that should be a first priority. And then it became, well, again, what are the processes governing things like if our village administrator is faced with having to make a decision, what dollar amount does she have the ability to make that decision? Up to and including things like that, where when can decision-making happen and how can we encourage those things. So that's the idea behind it. But again, we have to do that in conjunction with our staff that actually bring those things to life and also with our constituents and make sure that those things are a priority. And yet, so we can— we're the policymaking portion of this, but the action is taken by another portion of our staff. So it's not as easy as a CEO saying, "This is a priority and we're doing these things." It has to be, "What meaningful steps will we take toward those things?" So certainly, we suggested those things. But bringing them to bear has been a much more difficult, painstakingly slow process than what I'm used to. But that's, that's where I would tie the two things in harmony with one another is the approach. But then it becomes, how do we get this? How do we get everyone on the same page?

How have you been getting your clients so far with Sproutwise?

I've been very fortunate that there have been a lot of my former colleagues and partners in, and whether it's venture capital funds or my former coworkers who have launched their own ventures, my former leaders. So a fair amount of them have come from referral networks, which is flattering. It's, it's— you often wonder in HR, no one gets excited when you walk into a room, Charles. Like, we're not exactly A-list attendees to a team, or certainly not to an executive team. And so to have people of organizations where I've worked choose to work with me 2, 3, and even 4 times, it feels like that is just a testament to the way we work and what we've had a chance to do. But aside from that, then it becomes, you know, this is the year 2 to 3 year shift that I talked about earlier, which is, oh my gosh, the referral network cannot be the source of where we get our clients. So then it's become— we've done a little bit of government contracting. So there's been a program at a federal level called the Global Epicenter of Mobility, which is pumping dollars into regions like Southeast Michigan to encourage mobility innovation, which is obviously a hallmark of Detroit's reputation. So it's bringing that innovation back to Michigan. So we've been able to partner with that organization and work with, I think, 8 or 9 companies so far to help do these projects. And then also I've done quite a bit of work within the Michigan startup ecosystem, which is you know, how do we replicate what's happened on the coast of the US and Silicon Valley and New York and bring that sort of innovative thinking and capital to the state of Michigan? So I think a fair amount of our clients have also come from being involved as an advisor in working with these early-stage companies, with institutions like Michigan State or my alma mater Albion College, and also partners around the entirety of the ecosystem with within the venture capital space, within community partners like coworking spaces, um, within, um, uh, other, um, uh, like service providers and that sort of referral across that ecosystem. So generally our clients tend to come from one of those three arenas.

Interesting. Where do you see the company going from— yeah, anywhere from 5, 10 years from now, especially with everything that's happening in the realm of AI?

I— we get this question a lot too, and not just, not just for our work, but there's, there's generally a lot of— there's this sense of awe and wonder, I think, with employees on how can they use tools like AI to help accelerate output. I think from an organizational standpoint, the same goes there. And there are certainly a lot of people that have great fear that it will replace their roles altogether. And so that's been, and I'm sure I even, I listened to some of the podcasts that you've done and that topic seems to be a frequent topic as well. So I know that it's a consideration for every part of the equation. I think for us, we've really harnessed it as an acceleration to the work we do because I think AI at its core helps to take preexisting knowledge and takes you from point A to point B faster, at least for us. And so, when we think about templates and frameworks and the work we've done, it helps us to create a complete product that much faster. What it can't replace is knowing what good looks like at all. So, we talk a lot about this with teams in order to say the human perspective is an important one because there still needs to be that line of where AI meets adoption, where it meets integration within workflows, and it needs reinforcement is, is is what we see this bringing to our team. So I see that becoming, you know, something to accelerate the very unsexy parts of the work we do so that we can invest our time working more intentionally with leaders to help reinforce these kinds of things, to help work with teams in order to help them grow within their role. And like I'd mentioned before, encourage that good work to happen at all. It does take a bit of that, that work one-on-one or with teams Where I'd love to see this go, I, the team has grown. We have found this over the last 3 years. Had you told me we would have slotted more in this people operations world of creating structure underneath these growing teams, I would have laughed. It's not where I chose to spend my time as a full-time hire. But we've niched into this ability to help teams create that something they can stand upon as they grow. So growing, continuing to grow in that direction. I would love to see the team grow. I would love to have different levels of practitioners that we can call into organizations at either C-suite level all the way down into execution-ready resources to help with these companies. Because the fact remains that until companies get to be about 50 to 75 people, they never hire leaders like me. To build a people practice. And what we often walked into was organizations where it was orphans. There was this immense amount of people debt that had accumulated. And at some point, there was this level of chaos. And it was because growth is possible or imminent. And we've got to solve for this very quickly. So we've got to hire a ton of people or build the ship as we're flying it. But it's not been done to date. So exciting chaos. Or there were scenarios where companies would say, we have this performance issue. We're concerned about this becoming a legal issue. So that the chaos would manifest into legal risk and the potential for high-dollar settlements. So that sort of growth and offering different levels to help companies solve for it before they have to invest in full-time resources. I would love to have a team of practitioners at every level. That help to accomplish that and meet organizations where they are. Because there are companies that don't need a C-suite resource. What they might need is someone to help do things that are taking up time they do not have to give and removing them from things their company needs for them to solve for right now. So it's, it's being able to grow in that way with a team of people.

Thanks for being here today, Abby. Where can people find out more about you?

I tend to poke around on LinkedIn quite a bit. I like to share my, my journey of vulnerability quite a bit on LinkedIn. I don't believe there are any other Abby Wilhelmi Gates kicking around the interwebs, but there's that. Also, Abby@sproutwise.com, ABBY@sproutwise.com is another good way to reach me. And also, Thank you again for the opportunity to connect today, Charles. I genuinely appreciate the time and the work you do to help create conversations about innovation, leadership, and companies growing with intention and care.

Thank you, Abby. So I was, uh, Abby and Charles for another Founder Wisdom