Cherie Hoeger - CEO & Co-Founder at Saalt | B Corp

Welcome to another CEOism podcast. We have Sherry Hoger with us today. Sherry's a CEO and founder at Salt. It's a B Corp, an interesting company made for women. Sherry's all about Hispanic women entrepreneurship as well. It's one of her causes. My wife is a Hispanic entrepreneur, so I support that for sure. And Salt is a pretty intriguing company. Sherry's been founding it 10 years ago, been an author before that and an editor in the wellness space. So Sherry, welcome to the pod. Tell us a bit more about yourself and what you've been up to.

Yeah, like you said, I launched Saalt in 2018, so it's been 8 years and it's been an incredible journey. We're really in a taboo space, a taboo category, which is periods, bladder leaks, all the things. And so I spend my days talking about women's wellness and breaking all the stigmas around it. And I'll say the core of our product, we sell menstrual cups and discs. And period underwear. And I do a lot of education around my product. That's primarily what I do because people just still view these as fringe products, alternatives. And so much of what I do as a marketer is getting people to get beyond those stigmas and to educate them and then to purchase. But it's a long purchase journey, a long customer journey, but it's also one that's very fulfilling because the number one phrase that people tell us is that our products are life-changing. And the second phrase is I wish I would have tried them sooner.

Yes. Why does it take such a long time to buy? For example, my wife has been using those for quite some time, and I feel there's a lot of education and awareness around the topic. So is it still the same? Are you seeing the waves catch and everything unblock nowadays?

It depends on where you're from. There's a lot more waves for these products in Europe, for instance, in the UK. Even though there's not a lot of talk still, there's still a lot of stigmas around period care. I notice anytime I go to different countries, everybody's comfort level speaking about periods is a little different and it's still pretty reserved in the UK. We're a little bit more loud and boisterous as Americans. But I would say that Americans still don't know about these products so well and they still are viewed as kind of these fridge products. And, you know, for people who actually try them, we see them as a gold standard. They're so much better than disposables. They're so much more convenient, more comfortable. They're higher capacity. They're better for our bodies and the environment. So it really is just telling that story as a marketer. You know, telling it through our beautiful branding, you know, the way it looks on shelf, you know, all, all of the tools that you have in your tool belt as a marketer to be able to, you know, get people beyond those stigmas and get them to make the switch.

How hard has it been to scale the company?

Well, we're able to scale the company right now, 8 figures, and it's been around for 8 years. We're omnichannel, so we're on our website, we're also on Amazon, and then we are in all Target stores nationwide with our cups. And then we have our underwear in select Target stores as well. And also our teen line is in Walmart stores. So we're really just trying to aim to have our products available wherever customers are buying those products right now, their feminine hygiene, right? And make it easy for them to be able to ship quickly or be able to go get it straight from the store. And so we were omnichannel from the get-go and we also bootstrapped our company. So that makes us a little different than some of the companies in our category that have taken VC funding or PE funding. We just raised a little bit just 2 years ago, really to just fund some new innovation we're having. But otherwise we bootstrapped and, you know, there's pros and cons to bootstrapping. And I would say that the pro is, you know, at a time where a lot of people, where there's a lot of these e-commerce darlings, you know, you're thinking like Casper and Allbirds and Glossier and all these darlings that were really focusing on D2C only, you know, we were deciding to go omnichannel and that strategy played out for us in the end. Because then later as those D2C darlings, you know, weren't performing as they thought they would and they didn't have, you know, some expansion into these other channels, then, you know, it was more difficult to be able to keep that consumer base. So the omnichannel strategy has really won out in the end. And then you don't throw your money so much at your first assumptions when you don't take VC capital because you have to make everything work. So you have to have that proof of concept first for anything that you do with your marketing, with your brand awareness and your innovation. It's too easy, I think, when you take in outside capital to look at those first assumptions, you know, you know, throw your dollars at it and say, okay, we're going to see how this, how this works. And then, you know, it often doesn't. You have a lot of learnings that you take back, but then you have to go back to the well, right? Back to those pockets. And there's less appetite to be able to fund that. And then at the same time, you've diluted yourself as a founder. So I think that I'm really grateful for the route that we took. for bootstrapping because I feel like it took us— helped us learn a lot of lessons and has also helped us maintain the profitability levels that it takes other companies a while to get to if they are used to spending so much and then they have to go back. And when investors started asking for profitability after Silicon Valley Bank failed, they said, okay, we're going to put profitability at the forefront, which they should have done from the get-go, right? Then it was a lot easier for us to be able to show that metric.

I had the co-founder of Honey Pot on my podcast, I think 2 days ago. They also entered Target, right? I'm curious if it's the same lady that got you introduced there as well, but it seemed like this was a major, major, major victory for them. How did you get into Target? And do you think that's been unlocking like most of your success so far?

Yeah. So Target has been a real game changer for us and we were able to get in, thankfully in our second year of business, which is kind of unheard of, but it really was because of how we positioned our packaging and our branding and voice. And I love Beatrice. She's the founder of Honey Pot. She's done so well and their company has done so well and she's really a great success story. So kudos to them. I would say that women's products in general are having a little bit more of a heyday and are having a little bit more focus and reusable products have had more awareness around on them than there's ever been. That's like ebbs and flows. I think in the past couple years it's been a little larger than it is right now, but we continue to see this category shift and change, and I love seeing the new innovation that continues to be introduced.

And how did you get in there? Are you like a sales, uh, pro? Like, was that your move?

So we actually went to a conference called ECRM, and this is a fun story. Um, I don't remember what ECRM stands for, but it was essentially speed dating for buyers and new brands. And we had several, you know, it was 26 retailers in 48 hours. So it was really great, a really great way to teach you how to pitch as new founders. So my husband and I, who are co-founders, we started learning to pitch, you know, during that time, mostly to tired male grocery buyers who didn't know what cups were. You know, they didn't know what period underwear was. And so it was, it was really fun to be able to practice on them and convert them. But then in walked the target buyer and she'd put 20 meetings or 20 minutes onto our, you know, our agenda and 10 minutes was the free version. So this was a good sign. And she was very progressive. She was originally from Nigeria and she knew that she wanted a cup on shelves. She just didn't know which one yet. And so she was talking to us and she was thumbing through, you know, our packaging and she was giving us all sorts of advice. You know, she said, hey, you should have a little cup here. You should change your, your size guide. So she made some of these improvements and she sat there for a minute. And after talking to us for a while, she paused and she looked at our packaging. She said, you know, I've looked at a lot of cups. And I mean a lot. And we're like, oh, that doesn't sound good. You know, she goes, I think your brand is best positioned to take this mainstream. And it was very nonchalant. But for my husband and I, it was such a moment of validation as an entrepreneur to hear her say that, because we had been talking about how we want this to go to a mainstream consumer. We want this fringe alternative product to be like this gold standard, to look beautiful and to, you know, be something that everybody is using and going to. And she just repeated those words back to us, right, that we had wanted. And Target was always our measuring stick. It was, is this Target worthy? Is it good enough for Target shelves? So when she gave us that feedback and said, your brand is good enough to take this mainstream, it was an incredible moment. And then she invited us to go to Minneapolis and we negotiated an exclusivity agreement to launch into all Target stores nationwide the following year. So that was our first year of business that we negotiated it in the following year. We were able to launch, and it put us on the map, and it was able you know to grow our revenue.

Yeah, I love that. What a story! What else has been super successful in working for you so far? What other channels you sell online as well? What does marketing look like? What does basic top of funnel look like for you?

Yeah, so I will say what's working and not working. What is working is social organic content. We do a lot of content, and it's mostly educational content teaching how to use our products. So TikTok Shop has been a success. Success story for us. We've done lives on TikTok Shop, and during each live, we're able to sell, you know, thousands of dollars worth of product. And it's just because you're just addressing customer barriers. And so we're the best-selling feminine hygiene brand on TikTok Shop. So we're one of, one of their success stories. What doesn't work for us so, so well is paid meta. It's just expensive to acquire customers. You know, the ROAS isn't what other companies get, and it's difficult because it's a longer customer journey. And so we're always looking to bring in more organic content. It's why I do podcasts like this. I have my own podcast because I want to get the story out, be able to teach people about our products without having to pay every time. And, uh, so I would say customer acquisition is one of our biggest challenges. But, you know, overall what's amazing is our second referral point is word of mouth. So you have, you know, Meta at the top, second is word of mouth, which I think really attests to the quality of our products when you have word of mouth So you're saying like influencer marketing? I mean, more social organic content. We do use influencers, but influencers haven't been really successful for us when we've paid influencers. When they talk about us organically and we boost that content, then that helps. But, you know, maybe I'm saying something that's a little bit debatable for Depending on the brand. But I think that influencer marketing is going a little out because I think people trust influencers a little bit less. And I think they're often asking for some high rates and we have never seen the ROI on those rates. We have tried it before and very, very few deliver the ROI that we're hoping for as brand.

Yeah, I guess it's a bit awkward to talk about menstrual cups as well as like a partner or an influencer, right? Like, have you seen some of that?

You know, I think that a lot of them are looking for content that, uh, can be stigma-breaking, that maybe is somewhat shocking, that is going to command, you know, people to stop the scroll. So some, yes, you know, are a little bit less inclined to talk about menstrual cups, but a lot of people are seeking out content like ours where they're excited to talk about it.

Why is Tampax and these big companies not getting onto that trend?

Well, they have actually. So Tampax actually launched their own cup. Um, to my knowledge, they paid quite a pretty penny for a lot of the consulting that they brought in. They talked to a lot of the leading people in the reusable space at the time. This was several years ago, and they launched a Tampax cup. Um, I tried it. It was, it was very large, you know, even though they had all this consulting and they paid for all this you know, design from, from the consultants that they worked with. It didn't work for most anatomies. It was, it was too large. It didn't fit well. It was painful. And then they also wrapped it in a lot of plastic packaging, which to me indicates that they didn't really know their consumer. 'Cause you're talking to a pretty sustainably minded consumer when someone, you know, is buying a cup that lasts 10 years, that replaces 3,000 pads and tampons from landfills. Like this is, this is someone who's looking for sustainable products. So for instance, ours comes in all paper packaging, for a reason, right? And it's because, it's because it's something that can be recycled. And so we really feel like it's just been a little bit of a miss. So have they gotten into the category? Yes. Have they done well in the category? Not so much. We also had a competitor that was purchased. Um, I won't say names, but the competitor was purchased by a large conglomerate, and it was kind of taken under one of their legacy brands in the feminine hygiene space. And it didn't do well. And the hypothesis I have is that, you know, consumers are looking for brands that they can align with. They're looking for someone like us who's women-owned, that's a B Corp, you know, that has the values that we have. And they weren't looking to adjoin themselves with this like legacy brand that was already on shelves that was trying to get to the reusable space. There's, I think there's a little bit of a lack of trust there. So that's, that's what I think, but it hasn't succeeded.

And is your main seller the cups still? Because when we land on your website, it's like underwear first, right? So tell me more.

So we're talking about what's on shelf. So our cups, our cups are in major retailers, but the underwear is for us our core product. And of course it's more consumable. So, you know, our hard goods, which is the cups and discs, are not as consumable of a product because they last 10 years. And so you're buying one, you might buy one for your purse, you might buy one to have in the car. That's it, right? Whereas the underwear, you can buy it, number one, for all leaks. So it can be used for periods, it can be used for bladder leaks, it can be used for the daily wetness, essentially the cervical fluid. It can be used for postpartum bleeding. It's everything. And you can use— I'm showing a seamless right now that has a stretchy nylon that's like a second skin that's no-show. This can be used for workouts. So it's really solving the needs of women in every phase of their reproductive life. that we call the 4 Ms, which is monarchy, menstruation, maternity, and menopause. And in there, there's also perimenopause, when women are dealing with irregular periods and bladder leaks and so forth. And so for me, I think that women should have absorbency in their underwear every single day. And that's what this underwear provides. It's built-in absorbency that replaces pads and panty liners. And so instead of having to go to the store and do these pad and tampon runs, they can have something that moves with them that feels great and You know, is really, really helpful for those who are athletic as well. So it's really supporting women in all phases of life, and that's what people look to our company for.

Where are these built?

Yeah, so our underwear is built in Sri Lanka, and our cups and discs are made and manufactured with a silicone that's sourced in the United States.

Interesting. I have the tariffs and all that noise been Disrupting to your company?

I mean, it was at first, just like it was for everybody. Not so much, you know, depending on the different SKUs that we have, because, you know, our cups and discs were made in the US, so there's no tariffs there, which is great. Our packaging was made overseas, so there were some tariffs there. And then for underwear, it fluctuated on the level of tariffs. You know, as we know, those tariff amounts and percentages fluctuated sometimes depending on the day. But we've actually been issued a refund now on those tariffs. So that, that has changed over time. So yes, it was disruptive for a while, but fortunately it wasn't at the highest levels that other places were. And Sri Lanka is amazing. The company that we work with, it was the first LEED-certified manufacturer in the world for a manufacturing company. And so very sustainably minded. They have a 98% female workforce that they provide with life skills training. They provide their children with supplies for school. They provide clean drinking water to a 10-mile radius within all of their factories. And so just an incredible company when it comes to CSR practices, ethical and sustainable practices.

The podcast before you was with the CXO of a company called Ocean Star. I'm not sure if you know them, but they, they do like a Sri Lankan workforce, like VAs and that type of stuff. So are you hiring Sri Lankans as well?

We do have some VAs. I don't know, they are in Indonesia, um, but I don't know about Sri Lanka specifically. But they are amazing, amazing people. We just love our team there and just incredible and very, I would say, progressive for women as well. They've had, you know, They've had much more, many more females in leadership in their government than we've had in the United States. So I admire them in so many ways.

Talking about your life, right, you have 7 kids, you told me last time.

6 kids. Yeah, 6. I'm like, number 7, I actually technically 7, it's Salt, it's our company. It's just like another child.

Yeah, but that's still like veteran numbers, like very heavy numbers, right? Like 6 kids. How did you manage that? How did that influence the company over time?

Yeah, so we have 5 daughters and then our little son at the caboose is, is, uh, well, we got the boy at the very end. He's 4 years old right now and my oldest daughter is 19. So it's everyone in between there. It is a wild ride and we absolutely love it. You know, I'm a very high-functioning, ambitious individual. We love family. We love living life to its fullest, but people always ask me, how do you do it? Like they learn that we have an 8-figure company that has this big warehouse. We're omnichannel and they see the success and they then learn that I'm a mom of 6. And so they come to me and they say, what are you, Superwoman? Like, how do you make this happen? Like, not Superwoman. I've just had to learn to be very deliberate with my time and very intentional with my life. And so it really comes down to tools. And also, I don't believe in work-life balance. For me, that phrase just leads to mom guilt because it's literally impossible to balance all aspects of your life in this perfect balance where you have 8 hours of sleep and 8 hours of work and 8 hours of personal life. It just doesn't happen that way because kids get sick. You have travel. There's, you know, school plays and there's parent-teacher conferences, all of those things, right? And so I tell people, scratch that from your vocabulary. Use the term work-life integration. And that's all about making work work for your life, loving what you do, doing what you love, integrating it. And so there's some examples of how we do that. So for instance, usually when I'm on meetings, I'm on a walking treadmill. I'm getting exercise while I'm on meetings, right? My husband and I really share the load of responsibilities for both the business and for our home life. We share the chauffeuring. You know, it's not really those traditional gender roles where one person's doing one or the other. And we've to learn how to have those creative solutions. We also have an in-office preschool. And that's something that we started very early on in our second year of business. I was a mom with toddlers. I was having a lot more of my time was demanded from my team. And so I needed a solution and I didn't want to put my child in daycare because I might not see them for 9 hours of the day when you have an 8-hour workday, plus you have a commute. And so to my husband's credit, he said, well, why don't we create an in-office preschool that we can use. We can create it for our employees too. Most of our employees are female.

Patagonia style.

Patagonia style. And it's been incredible. It is so great for retaining talent, for recruiting talent. People are happier because they see their children throughout the day. And we're able to access this pool of stellar female talent that may not otherwise be in the workplace because they have to decide, well, is the cost of daycare worth the salary that I'll be getting. And sometimes it's not, sometimes it's a wash and they're barely making above what it costs for daycare. So to provide that free for our team members and allow them to be able to be moms and dads and also be able to work has just been incredible. So we truly look at our team members as our biggest asset. And we should look at that as ourselves too. Invest in your people and your people will perform better for you. Help them with flexibility. And we have a very pro-family workplace for that reason.

Yeah, it's all about systems. Do you also have like nannies to help you? Like, that's been very helpful for me.

Yeah, you know, I did have a summer nanny at one time, and I realized that nannies were not for me because I like to be too hands-on with my kids. So instead, I work hybrid. So right now I'm in our office and our podcast studio. So I'm in office today with my son in the preschool, but then oftentimes I'm at home, especially in the summer. Where, you know, I'm there and then I'm there for what I call the crossroads when kids are coming home off the bus from school or when you're, you know, doing pickups for lunchtime and for dinnertime and all those things, you make sure you're present during those times. So, so I work both places.

But I know that your hands-on doesn't mean helicopter, right? Like, what is your parenting style?

Very independent. So my kids are extremely independent. They've had to learn to be. So for instance, I have 2 children at home right now who are just, you know, independent. They know what their chores are. They know that they They need to practice their piano and their voice lessons and do their reading, and they finish all that up. So they'll see me in a few hours, then I'll finish my work from home. So it's very flexible, especially in the summer. I have some that started school and some that didn't. And I think that independence is good. I mean, honestly, I think that there's a lot of moms and dads, but I would say particularly moms who struggle with the mom guilt, and that's, oh, I'm not present for my kids all the time, or maybe I work too much and so I'm not there. And I really had that mindset shifted by a panelist that I saw at an event. Her name was Jenny from Jenny's Ice Cream. And they were asking her about work-life balance and how she did it. And she said, oh, that's a myth. You know, work-life balance, that's a myth. Really, it's about just like spinning plates and spinning, spinning the plates that need your attention more right then and right at that time. And then she said something I would never forget. And she said, my kids are the luckiest kids in the world. And I thought, you know, all of us who were struggling with mom guilt in the audience, we're all just like, how are they the luckiest kids? And she said, they get to see me being a career woman, an entrepreneur, and being a mom and shining at both of them. And I'm showing them by example. And I realized, what example am I showing my kids if I'm going around doping and feeling, you know, feeling sad that, you know, with this, with this guilt that I may not be there for my kids? Well, they're seeing, okay, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to be an entrepreneur. I don't want to live that life that my mom did. We are showing them how to look, how to be successful as female entrepreneurs, as dads, every time they see us interact with them. So what are we exemplifying for them? And so that's when I learned, okay, I need to be deliberate with my time. And I explain to them now that they can be independent while I'm out and give them the rules and the boundaries and also allow them to fail and allow them to work on their own. So they're very capable children, just like we need to be when we're in entrepreneurship.

Yeah, I think, uh, being there with your kids and showing them the work, right? Uh, I think like my parents, I mean, they rarely put me close to them while they were working and hustling. I mean, my dad had a home office, I think, half of my life. I think that inspired me to be an entrepreneur and start out as a sales rep, but see him in action and have them explain what they do. They never really took time to explain like, hey, that's why I'm doing this. Money is important, right? And And I think just having them around you and seeing how you behave, right, and your values, all of that is important. And yeah, I mean, balance, whatever you want to call it, it's like flow, right? Nothing's even in life. And especially as an entrepreneur, you hit some phases which you need to be heads down and just like focus on your stuff. So fully understand what you get. 6 children, still like rocket science, but I know it's systems. It's all about systems and what you established before. Navigating the hardships of when these systems break, right? And having a system and backup to that system. So I love it. You're very inspiring, uh, Cherie. Where can, uh, people find out more about you?

Yeah, so they can find me at saalt.com. That's our website. So that's saalt with 2 A's, saalt.com. Also on Amazon, and you can find our products in select retail stores also, like Walmart and Target. And then, you know, personally, you can find me at sherry.hager on Instagram and TikTok and so forth. And you can find our company @saltco on all of the social channels.

That was Sherry and Charles.