Darian Trojacek - CEO at Healthcare Business Associates

Welcome to another CEO Wisdom pod. We have Dariane Trojacek with us today. Dariane is a CEO at Health Business Associates. She's been doing that since a year prior to that and still reg align, mostly in biz dev so far in her career and in health. Interesting background, PhD, right? That, that was in 2023 started and you're gonna have done 5 years. But exercise physiology before that. Darian, welcome to the pod. Tell us a bit more about yourself.

Um, yeah, thanks for having me. It's exciting to be here. Um, yeah, so I started in clinical research about 10 years ago. So I started out doing academic, uh, studies. So, um, we did investigator-initiated studies that were grant funded. And so I studied cardiovascular physiology and mechanics and published about a dozen papers there. So it was very scientific, very wet lab kind of opportunity. Did a lot of protocol development, data analysis, and then academic writing. I then moved to the sponsor side of things, so sponsor-initiated clinical trials where new drugs and devices are developed. And I was a coordinator, so I managed everything from start to closeout. And I helped kind of run the site and make sure that the quality was good, patients were being seen, and that the business was moving along. Um, I often tell people that this is my first role in business development because I was responsible for kind of making sure that the department ran smoothly and grew and scaled, um, to meet all of the goals and objectives for the practice. So bringing in new opportunities, having better sponsor-CRO relationships, and making sure that studies were run well and that sponsors wanted to keep doing business with our site. So that's kind of where things got born and started. And then I realized that I really enjoyed the business development side of things. My dad was a serial entrepreneur, and so I feel like I kind of got my business perspective from him. So I started working with different healthcare and research organizations to support the growth and scaling of their businesses. And so that's now kind of what I do every day, and I really enjoy it.

And these two businesses, were you promoted to CEO, Reguline and HBA?

Yes.

Okay, interesting. So it didn't start them, but scaled to CEO role. Tell me how that happened.

Um, I mean, that's an interesting question. I mean, I suppose it happens how anybody would expect it. Um, so, uh, you know, you— I think one thing that's really interesting when you work anywhere is trying to figure out how to add value. How can I add How can I provide more value than I cost the organization or the company? Because that's really all that business development is. So making sure that you are a key asset, that you are innovative, that you're creative, that you provide solutions. Don't bring me problems, you know. And I think that those things themselves will stand out, right? So, you know, being willing to have delayed gratification, I think, is key to having a successful career trajectory or building and scaling any type of business, supporting the growth of any business. So I think being able to tell yourself, well, it may not be sexy right now, but if you put in the work and the time, it can grow and scale and really be that for later on. So I think, I think the key feature is finding, always finding ways to add value, always finding a way to provide solutions, and then And then having delayed gratification, like you might be doing something tedious and boring for a long time with no results, but they will come. And I think that that's part of the— I think that's how you progress in anything, right? That's how you progress academically, is how you progress with a career, it's how you progress financially. I think all of that is in line.

And the obvious question is, how do you manage all that stress, right? Like if you impose so much on yourself and, uh, delayed gratification all the time, how do you not implode?

Um, I mean, it is a challenge. Um, you know, I think people talk a lot about how great things can be once you become successful or move to a certain tier or position that you want to get to, but the journey there is difficult. So like, sometimes, sometimes days just suck, and, and that's okay. I think, I think it would be better if people were a little bit more, you know, open and supportive that sometimes the days are hard, sometimes the days are long, sometimes you work a 15-hour day and have nothing to show for it but a bunch of people that yelled at you all day long. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes all day you're sending emails and calling phones and you're getting rejected all day long. And then, you know, sometimes you make a few phone calls and the wins come through, and that's really important. So I think having a very stable foundation for, um, Perseverance, I think, is really important. Um, I often tell myself that if you want to be in the top 1% one day, that means 99% of people aren't going to do what you're going to do, right? 99% of people would have walked away. 99% of people would have given up. They would have gotten a different job. They would have gotten an easier job. They would have picked something else. And that's great for them. That works. There's nothing wrong with that. That's not a better option. But for me What I want is if you want to get to that point, you have to keep going when it gets tough, when it gets hard. And if you watch any interview, podcast, documentary about any successful, um, individual, they will all tell you that they've had times where they had to get a loan to pay payroll. They had to— like, stuff was about to go like totally implode. They were super stressed. They were keep— they kept beating their head against a wall. And I think that to not implode, you have to just keep going. And part of it is you just have to tell yourself that it does get better. Everything will pass. My business mentor often tells me, this too will pass. The, the highs will pass, the lows will pass, the mediocre days will pass. Everything— it'll— it's all transient, right? So you just have to keep going and be convinced that what you're doing is going to be worth it, I think.

Yes, but you also need a steam valve, right, to let the steam off. So, and I guess, uh, sports is like the best thing ever for that because you let like all the cortisol and bad neurochemicals out. Plus it teaches you pain tolerance at the same time, which is the best thing ever. Do you have a background in sports?

Um, no. I mean, both of my degrees are in sports science, so I think a lot of people think that I do. I mean, I do exercise, right? I do exercise. I go outside, get your vitamin D, you know. I try to have generally good nutrition and a good connection and, um, um, like family connections, friends and family that are supportive. I have 3 dogs and 3 cats that keep me busy, and they help after a stressful day. But, um, yeah, I mean, naturally there is— there's stuff— there's anything that you can do to keep your enclosure enriched enough to be sane, right? But it just depends on what you like to do, right? I mean, I like to paint. Sometimes I paint when I want to. Sometimes I write. I enjoy writing. Um, but a lot of times if I've had a really crappy day, sometimes you just have to keep going after the crappy day. Sometimes nothing makes it better. So I mean, I think it just depends on what your perspective is on every crappy day is one less crappy day, right? So you're getting closer to where you want to be.

How long is your sales cycle, right? Because also that goes with pain tolerance. Takes like you one year to close a client. Like, tell us a bit more about your business because you're in clinical trial for what I've checked out in consulting. It seems like pretty long fucking sales cycle. Cycle? Um, how long are these?

It depends on the size of the client that I'm approaching. So for some smaller independent medical practices and, and research clinics, the sales cycle could be somewhere between 30 and 90 days, uh, which is pretty good.

I would say that's low. Yeah, standard.

Um, but for, for larger organizations, for sponsors, CROs, hospital systems, I mean, I've worked on a sales cycle that was over 2 years for a much larger client, right? But you're, again, kind of that delayed gratification. Being able to, again, have that delayed gratification means that you're gonna get the better thing later, right? So kind of that's the perseverance side of a longer sales cycle.

Yeah, I love delayed gratification, but I'm also way more about gamification, right? And taking where my brain is and where my human nature is. So my goal nowadays, like, close one client a day, right? And for that to happen, I needed to start prospecting like 30 days, days ago and even 4 months ago, right? I believe a bunch of founders are stagnant today because they didn't do the hard work a month ago and now they're like, oh, I don't have pipeline now. So it's a very fine balance, right? Because it's a self-feeding system. If you're not closing today, then you get all poopy pants, right? And bummed out, and then that will affect your performance, which will affect you 30 days down the line. So I think, yeah, from the get-go, bulletproof mindset, I would say, rather than delayed gratification, because it doesn't mean much, the delayed gratification. If I can put my mind like on something that motivates me, I don't know, like military mindset or, uh, you know, extreme action, extreme, uh, focus, relentless energy, right? And, and fill my pipeline today, I'll close like in 30 days down the line, and then I'll be happy, but I'll— I never tried to break that cycle. What do you think about, uh, that philosophy?

Um, you mean like not breaking the cycle of always, always doing more outreach? Always?

Yeah, doing the work, like, right? I mean, it— I guess it relates to what you're saying. It's just you've been like CEO of that company for a year from now. I'm not saying— I'm not saying that like, uh, no day should suck because everyone has like bad days or not then. But, um, one, find a niche and an ICP in which like the sales cycle is reasonable. Some people you like working with also, that helps like for motivation. And then try to close at least one per day, because the brain, it thinks in terms of days, right? Like one day, oh, sun rises, sun falls, you know, that's how we're evolutionarily wired. And if I can close one person a day, my brain will be happy, right? And it's hard for me to have a bad day when that happens.

Sure. I mean, closing is always— that's the goal, right? Especially in business development, like every— all your KPIs and everything are tracked off of whether or not you can close. So closing is obviously the— I mean, it's the best part of the day for sure. I think, I think you should always be farming and massaging your pipeline. Because what a lot of companies can do is they'll blast out sales, then the sales cycle will take 30 to 90 days. And then they'll run all the contracts, right? And then they'll be out of pipeline. So they don't have this continuous stream of conversation of outreach being done. So I think that your maintained approach is certainly ideal for sustained growth. It's kind of like if you go to the gym, just because you go to the gym and you burn 5,000 calories in a 12-hour exercise afternoon, right? Doesn't mean that you're going to be fit long-term. A lot of it boils down to consistency. So I think that the consistent approach is valuable. And I think a lot of people don't think about maintaining their pipeline in that way. They— people often approach their business from the perspective that If I get to this plateau, it'll maintain. Your business will never maintain. You will have to keep putting in the effort. It's kind of like, I'm not going to get fit one day and then just maintain my fitness if I become sedentary. I have to maintain that level of fitness and keep going to the gym and keep exercising and keep running and walking or whatever, because your body is going to naturally decline, right? So the same thing will go for a business pipeline. So you should always be maintaining that outreach and maintaining that sales cycle.

Fully agree. Just check Arnold Schwarzenegger today, not the same shape he was in his heydays on Venice Beach, right? Like, you need to keep on putting in the pipe, and it's incredibly hard to maintain your performance at such a high level. I think plateauing is a curse that every high performer is afflicted by. How do you get out of that one? Is that just a mental curse and a mental reset, or is it also physical, right? Like if you look at your numbers and you can't go over some certain stage, how do you fix that?

Well, so in business they often call it jumping plateaus. So people think of growth as a steady incline, right? Like a linear incline. And that doesn't really exist. You have to kind of jump levels. Um, it's kind of like when you're playing a video game and you get to the next level and it's notably different than the first, but it's not like there's a steady— you don't get to just like warm up., right? So you have to get to a point— each plateau almost has like a slight curve to it. So you will get to the highest point of that level, but then if you stay there for too much longer, it'll start to decline again. So you have to jump up and, you know, essentially revamp whatever it is that you're doing to get where you're going. So they often say in business, what gets you to $500,000 is not going to get you to $5 million. What gets you to $1 million is not going to get you to $10 million, right? So you have to keep thinking that like if you maintain exactly what doing today, your business is not just going to naturally get better. You're going to have to put 2 more plates on the bar. You're going to have to sprint a faster mile. You're going to have to— yeah, you're gonna have to take risks. You're gonna have to level up. You're gonna have to do something different to get where you're going, because otherwise you'll just get complacent, and that's not going to support where you're going.

And to your point again, right, like pain tolerance and facing your demon once again, you know, it's like you always have to face them back again and face the big, bad, scary dragon. The thing is, there's adaptation, right? So the dragon gets less and less scarier, especially once you've got on top of the hill a couple of times. But the thing is, you won't get on top of that hill many times. You know, maybe you'll try out 100 times and get on top 3 times. If you're very smart, maybe 30 times out of 100, which is, I don't know, Elon level. But yeah, there will be more failures, and you need to keep that experimental mindset and not get traumatized by failure, right?

Right. Um, I tell people that if they have a problem, or if they— if there's a— if you have a hard time managing rejection or failure, whichever one you— whatever you want to label it as, you will have a hard time managing entrepreneurship success, career growth. Like, you will— it will be difficult because people— I mean, it might have nothing to do with you. Someone might have a bad day and then just take it out on you. And that you have to be able to tell yourself This is okay. I don't have to accept their opinion. Like, you know, you can accept it as theirs, but that's the max, right? And you have to move on. You have to keep going. It's— you have to, you have to be willing to get, to get told no 100 times to get one yes, right?

Question: looking at your profile, um, how do you manage your time between, uh, Ragged Line and HBA?

Um, yeah, that's a good question. I've been asked this question before. I mean, I don't I don't know that I have a super magical answer for—

Is it 50/50 or mostly HBA?

Um, I don't know that I would give it a percentage. So people often ask me, how do you split time? And I say, I don't really split time. I manage deliverables, right? So I manage that I'm accomplishing my tasks in both roles and whatever time commitment that requires of me is what I do to make sure it gets done. So, um, I mean, I don't know that I would— I don't know how I would define it from a mathematical perspective with a percentage. I mean, I'm— I I oversee and manage the continuity of both organizations, and if there's a problem, then I adjust that.

Are both interrelated?

Um, not exactly. I mean, they both, they both have an interface with clinical research. So HBA is a healthcare and clinical research organization, so we do business development for both sides. Regaline is very research focused, so they support clinical research sites and networks and other organizations with their regulatory compliance. So managing the FDA and making sure that everything is GCP compliant, FDA compliant. And so there's— so if there's an audit, things look good. So there's no 483s, which would essentially be a warning letter from the FDA.

And then you stack the PhD on top of that. Isn't that suicidal?

I know, isn't it crazy? I guess, I guess you answer that.

Uh, I would never do it personally because I don't believe in the educational system Maybe in your space it would help, but I also respect it because I know how hard it is and I know that, I mean, that's a lot of brain power, right? So I, but yeah, you tell me about it. I would, I have very few data to answer that.

I mean, maybe it'll, maybe to make it more palatable, I mean, I don't take full-time classes, right? That's why the timeline's a little bit longer, but I do love learning and I do, um, I always joke that I'm just getting my PhD so my brother has to call me doctor.

Um, but I have a guy on my pod today who's like, doctor title is weird, but it's not in medicine. You can't really call yourself doctor if you're PhD.

It's a doctorate degree, which is why they say doctor, but I'm not a medical doctor. I would not be seen— I don't— I'm not licensed to see or care for patients in any way from a clinical perspective.

So yeah, I mean, I love learning, so, um, but why not do it with Pods, you can get a triple major PhD with Claude just doing deep research and interviewing like doctors on a podcast. That's pretty much how I do my learning, and I'm smarter than a bunch of PhDs in most fields. So I mean, no, well, wait, in business fields, in business field, not like a PhD doctor, whatever. But isn't that the way?

I mean, I think, I think any way that anybody wants to learn anything is valuable, right? So I don't think there's— I think if you narrow your solution anyway is your own. I think that's just gonna— I think that's gonna hurt you. I mean, I do use plenty of AI. I use— I listen to plenty of podcasts. I interview lots of high net worth individuals who are very good at what they do and maybe don't even have a high school diploma. So I don't think your sheet of paper behind your name or your postnominals make you who you are. I think being a good, kind person with virtue and morals makes you a good person. I just like to learn however I can, and sometimes an academic setting is helpful for that. Sometimes AI is helpful for that. Sometimes The checkout lady at Dollar General is helpful for that. It doesn't matter. Like, people, you can learn something from anybody. And the day that you think that you can't learn something from somebody or in a setting, or that you know more than everybody else, that's when I think you've made a mistake.

Yeah, for sure. Uh, do you have to step in a classroom for your PhD?

My PhD is remote, which is nice. So I mean, I do, there are classes, uh, that are held, but, and there are assignments, but it's nice that it is, it is remote. It is a virtual PhD, which is nice.

Uh, yeah, that's gonna be intriguing. And it's like 4 years, right?

It's typically— most PhDs are done in 4 years.

Got it. What's your goal, uh, then with like both companies, the PhD, right? And what like intersects at, uh, these 3 major, uh, goals that you have in front of you?

My goal is to add the most value that I can to a market where I have the most expertise. That's the short and simple of it. So whatever I can do to— I mean, and I do that in my even personal relationships with friends and family is what can I do to add value? Um, so it's kind of like this, you know, getting an education might help provide some additional academic context to supporting a business, or maybe speaking to a doctor, or maybe talking to a university, or writing a protocol. Um, you know, that might help add some context, or maybe it won't, but I'll learn something from it. Um, maybe I'll help one of my classmates. Maybe that's the point of getting a PhD. Maybe So maybe that's the case, but it's, you know, life's not very long. So I think trying to do what you can to have the most impact in the most meaningful way is probably one of the better ways to spend your time, right? So I— one of my favorite quotes is, "A man who lacks purpose will settle for pleasure." And I just think life's too short to focus too much on frivolity, right? Just making, just doing things because I can, right? I want to add value. I want there— I want, I want to have a purpose.

Yeah, for sure. I think there's a place for pleasure, but not toxic ones, for sure, right? There's— and there's so many toxic pleasures nowadays, like, uh, social media. Everyone wants your attention. Porn. All of these things. Your dad was an entrepreneur. Uh, why not launch your own stuff?

Um, well, for many years I didn't want to just deal with the headache. I mean, that's, that's where most people are at. Um, I do have stake in Regaline, so Regaline is mine, which is nice. So, um, I mean, I'm, I'm not— the, the concept of the entrepreneur grind in life is not foreign to me. Um, and I'm sure that I get a lot of that from my dad. My dad was an entrepreneur. My dad had multiple businesses, um, doing a lot of different things. He did mostly trades and blue-collar work, um, and did very well at them. He was very well regarded in his, in his work. So, um, yeah, I mean, Regaline is that, and that's nice. Uh, so, and who knows, I mean, I've had— I've, I have drummed up plenty of other half-brained ideas that I might— I mean, I'm still young, I got plenty of time to open. My business mentor has like 84 LLCs. So maybe I'll want him up by the time I'm his age. You never know.

I love it. Darian, thanks for coming on the pod today. Where can people find out more about you?

I mean, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. You can message me. It's just my name. I'm probably the only Darian Trojak on the platform. It's kind of a unique name, so I'm pretty easy to find if you want to message me on LinkedIn, or that's probably honestly the best place to find me, or even my website. You can get a hold of me there. So either website, HBA or Regaline.

I was Darian and Charles Cormier for another