Emre Ertan - Co-Founder at Cenoa

Welcome to another CEO Wisdom podcast. We have Emre Ertan with us today. He's the co-founder at Sinoa. He's an ex-CPO and CTO at Gerir, Stanford MBA, normally in SF, today in Istanbul. Welcome to the pod, Emre. Tell us a bit more about yourself and what you're up to.

Thank you, Charles. As you said, I'm co-founder and co-CEO of Sinoa. Uh, Sanoa helps entrepreneurs from all over the world to get paid internationally, especially from the US, UK, and Europe. You can think it's almost like a next-generation Wise or PayPal for emerging economies, powered by blockchain, stablecoins, and AI.

Did you start— why did you start the current, uh, company you at, right? Like, you've had a couple of exits, uh, why Seno in 2022, right?

So I think it coincided a few things actually. So it coincided with a big financial crisis in Turkey, uh, back in time in 2021, late 2021. There was currency fluctuations and A lot of small businesses actually had to stop working internationally for a long time, and we realized that we could empower these entrepreneurs, especially small businesses, with better dollar banking products. And at the same time, during those times, you could remember that it coincided with the DeFi summer. And it was the emerging, the new emerging technology, which was blockchain technologies, which we were very excited about that new technology. We realized we could build the future of international dollar banking products for emerging economies with the power of blockchain. So that's on one hand, there was this big problem. On the other hand, there's this new technology that we could solve this problem. So it coincided, and then we decided to start Senua.

And if we start from the get-go, in your case, right, like you were a pro basket athlete in 2004. Is that how you started out in life?

Uh, that's correct, actually. I mean, even if, uh, so I grew up in a small beach town in Turkey. So if you even go a little bit further, the first way of making money for me was just selling fish to neighbors, but if you don't count that as a profession, yes, my first profession was, uh, I played a couple of years in professional league in Turkey. So I used to play basketball for, for a long time. Yes.

Interesting. And how did that go? Why didn't you scale that to higher levels? And also, what did you learn from this?

Well, I think in Turkey, unlike US actually, in Turkey it's very, very difficult to study in college and play professional basketball at the same time. So there is no like a college league or like a mature college league system in Turkey. So by freshman year, I had to decide either to continue playing basketball or continue my college, which was one of the best colleges in Turkey. So I ended up choosing college and I mean, I learned a lot. I mean, first of all, definitely it taught me a lot on the grit, discipline, and never give up mentality. I think those things and teamwork especially, and I think those things came handy years later when I started companies and became an entrepreneur. So I would say like professional basketball or professional teams professional sports, especially team sports, uh, they can teach you a lot if you are an entrepreneur. And for me, it was definitely that great network web mentality. The team spirit helped me a lot in my further career.

Nice. And how did you actually get into project, uh, product managing stuff? I think, uh, you went and started your direct firm yourself, right? Like Robido? And then you got into product management at Nokia. Like, when did your obsession start?

So, um, I realized, I mean, even before I became an entrepreneur, I always was very interested in new ideas and new products, launching new things, uh, or trying to invent new things, even like small things in daily life. So I love that creativity and the new ideas phase. So, um, and when I started Mobito, which was also a patented idea, it was a new idea, a novel idea, uh, and when I started Mobito, I realized, uh, what I am doing day to day was actually closest to Product management, which at that time I didn't know product management because that was my first technology job. And then eventually when I joined at that time Alcatel-Lucent, then Nokia bought Alcatel-Lucent, so it became Nokia. But at that time when I joined Alcatel-Lucent, initially I joined in the innovation department there. But then quickly I came up with another idea, which was also patented, about like telecom infrastructure and value-added services back in time. And I ended up launching that product internally within Alcatel-Lucent. And all of a sudden I realized I'm launching that product from scratch, which I end up becoming basically a product manager. So I didn't know much then, but I loved launching new products and new ideas, and then I found myself as a product manager early on in Alcatel-Lucent.

And why product management in these days? I think the science was still pretty obscure back then, and even up to this day it's very much central, even in the agentic revolution, right? Like, why did you pick that when it was like not trendy in 2008 or '10.

So why did, why did I pick product management still, or why do I pick product management in current days?

Yeah, yeah. And in 2010, right, when it wasn't trendy at all?

Yeah, I mean, at that time it wasn't trendy at all, but again, I think I loved, uh, the fact that you deal with new ideas and the fact that you are almost an explorer of customer pain points. So you need to empathize with customers, you need to really understand the customers, you really need to understand the problems, pain points. I think those processes were fascinating for me. It's almost like a puzzle to really understand the root cause of a problem or real motives of customers and trying to build something around it. I think that process was fascinating for me. And I think it actually, uh, some of product management will be done by AI, but I think in core, really understanding users, really trying to listening to them, emphasize, uh, empathize, having empathy to users, I think these skill sets still will be very important even in the time of AI in these days. So that's why it's been a very exciting journey for me.

Interesting. And which one was your first big exit? Um, I don't think that was Mobido, right? Like, I think that was probably Soru.

Uh, I think in Soru it was, I would say, not an exit but kind of an acquihire. Uh, but Uh, yeah, I mean, it's— we, uh, and like, it was— so I wouldn't say a big exit that, but like, hopefully, uh, the next one will be— it will be a big exit.

Interesting. So, uh, what are you building now with Sinoa? Why does, uh, it make sense?

Uh, why it makes sense? Because we connect entrepreneurs, especially small businesses, consultants, freelancers, to global economy. And I mean, believe it or not, but if you're a small business in emerging economies like Turkey, Nigeria, Egypt, Indonesia, Pakistan, for instance, getting payments internationally, especially from the Western world, can be very expensive. And access to dollar-based financial products can be very difficult even in this year. So that's what we are solving. And we are working with tens of thousands of small businesses, entrepreneurs, freelancers in these regions, and we basically connect them to the global economy. So yeah, that's why we find it very exciting. And with the new developments, especially recently, the developments in stablecoins, in blockchain, helps us a lot. And the experience is getting better and better every day. And with the new developments with AI, I think our product and experience will be much better in the near future with the new technologies. And that's why we are very excited to build the future of financial products for entrepreneurs in emerging economies.

Did you get that idea of Getir?

Uh, while I was at Getir, or did you get it off Getir? Um, you mean like when I went, like, uh, the idea, or like, yes, or Getir idea?

Getir, you work there with a bunch of freelancers, right? Did you get the Sanoa idea off Getir?

Oh, actually, uh, not entirely because, um, I mean, during when I was at Getir, it was a different industry. But with my co-founder, Sechkin, was in banking. And then at some point, we, uh, we always brainstorm together. So he's one of my best friends from Stanford, actually, which we went to business school together. And we were always brainstorming ideas, and we always wanted to start something together. And when we both faced personally the crisis, the financial crisis in Turkey, we decided together that we could do something about it together. So, but it was not related to Getir because Getir was kind of a grocery delivery. Decacorn in Europe at that point. And I was— although, I mean, that experience obviously helped me a lot because I was Chief Product Officer there and started the product management team at Getir. And some of the employees actually ended up following me, which was great. And, uh, but yeah, I I had a great experience at Getir and I'm sure like that helped me a lot in my next startup.

Interesting. How's it going so far? How's it growing?

It's actually going very well. We grew around, I mean, we in the first couple of years actually we couldn't launch the current product unfortunately because of the partnership ecosystem and Uh, and the regulations, because like there was not clarity in the regulations. But we launched it in, uh, November 2024, and since then, within 2 years, uh, we reached more than $2.5 million of ARR and roughly quarter of a billion dollars annual payment volume and tens of thousands of customers from different countries. So, so far it's going very well and we grew very fast and yeah, it's going well and we are actually on our way to profitability.

What's—

Hopefully by end of this quarter we could, we should be And the website says zero fees.

How do you get paid?

Uh, so basically, um, I mean, in terms of fees, like when you get paid, you don't pay a fee, uh, but like we make some money off of FX rates, currency, basically currency conversion. And but still Since in these regions FX could be very expensive, so we still are in many cases cheaper than banks in the countries that we operate, but yet still able to make money off of that.

And what do FX fees look like versus like other platforms?

Uh, I mean, it actually depends. Like, FX rates changes, uh, changes on a daily basis, even on an hourly basis in this market. So it's very hard to say, but, uh, we are usually a lot better than banks or traditional fintech companies. Okay, but how much precisely So it's very hard for me to say because again, it changes, like the FX rate changes, uh, very frequently. So it's very hard for me to say exactly.

But normally, like, as a customer, like, how much could I expect to pay, right? Like, let's say it is, um, USD to Canadian dollar.

The total— yeah, I can't say the total cost. Like, in some Um, I shouldn't name, but like in some big fintechs, getting paid could cost, uh, somewhat around 5, 6 to 7% even, including the entire— all the fees and FX costs and everything. And in our case, it's mostly within 1 to 2%. So in one hand, there is 6 to 7%, and in our case it's 1 to 2%.

Okay, interesting. It's pretty high, right? Um, so like if Stripe already takes like 3% and all the FX stuff, it's, uh, some people might get like 10% cut off under them just from like banking fees. Just pretty ridiculous, right?

Yeah, so that's why we are trying to make it a lot cheaper.

And what's the setup there? Do you have like some form of, uh, KYC? Like, how easy is it to get an account?

Yeah, so basically we are non-custodial, um, and therefore we work with licensed fintechs to operate, and they are responsible for KYC, KYB, AML, etc. For instance, we work with Stripe. You know, they just acquired— actually, last couple of years ago, they acquired a company called Bridge, and we work with Bridge. And then they do KYC/KYB in the US, for instance. And similarly, with the countries that we operate with, we usually work with licensed fintechs there so that they are responsible for the compliance as well as KYC KYB because since we are non-custodial, we cannot touch the funds actually, and we never touch the customer funds and it's decentralized and non-custodial. Therefore, all the KYC KYB compliance requirements is done are done by our partner fintechs. But to open a new bank account or to open a new account, it's actually very quick. In just like within— if for a KYC, if it's an individual, just 5 to 10 minutes, and if it's a business, it takes just like 1 day. So it's very quick compared to—

That's pretty cool.

Traditional banks or other fintechs.

Yeah. And then Mastercard, you had to partner up with them directly, and Circle as well?

Uh, yeah. So for, uh, Mastercard, We joined their, again, innovation program called Startpad. And for Circle, we partnered up with them to basically inform the users in these regions. So we have some partnerships and we are also in the Circle Alliance network also.

I love it. Um, I mean, it's pretty intriguing. How fast was it for you to actually launch? Was it, was it like very lean, could launch with a couple of days on this, uh, type of framework?

Uh, actually we built our own wallet infrastructure and smart contracts, so it wasn't actually very fast. Uh, so, um, So we built many things in-house. So that's why actually it took us for a fairly long amount of time to launch everything.

I mean, what's the disadvantage to partner up with these guys? Like, I mean, they take their, their parts of the share, right? What if they decide to lock your customer up, right? Like, is that a pain? Like, what are the pains of not owning the deep infrastructure?

Um, I mean, uh, true. So at the end of the day, we control the customer experience, but yes, you are right, like we depend on our partners. But luckily now there are multiple partners actually in new geographies, because 2 years ago, 3 years ago, we were actually having difficulties to find partners. But right now, luckily, there are actually multiple partners, and in each geography we prefer to work with multiple partners to provide best experience for our users.

Got it. Um, tell me if one day would make sense for you to own your own infrastructure. Um, would that require like very expensive permits? Is that on the roadmap eventually, or Not anytime soon.

Maybe after Series A we could evaluate, but right now we rely and depend on our partners and we just like want to strengthen our relationship with our existing partners as well as new partners. So that's why right now, like, it's not in the short-term horizon.

How do you get your clients? What's your main go-to-market, uh, slash favorite go-to-market channel?

Actually, uh, mainly it's either our distribution partners or word of mouth, actually. So there is an organic— actually, a lot of users come organically or word of mouth or through partners. By the way, I can't, I can't hear you for a second.

What's the, um, what's your ICP? Is it like, uh, freelancers and, um, CEOs? Like, who do you target precisely and how does the go-to-market function differently for each?

Right, I mean, our main customers, freelancers, E-exporters, the people who sell products, for instance, on Amazon, Etsy, Shopify, etc., or freelancers who worked on platforms like Upwork, uh, or just like freelancers who have their direct customers. Uh, we have some consultants, software consultant businesses. Or some vibe coders, etc. So like we have different types of customers, and I mean many of them again, like the partnership ecosystem differ, of course. For instance, like for e-commerce or e-exporters, we have some partners who work with them. So we work with logistic companies who work who also work with e-exporters. and then they help us distribute our product, vice versa. So in that sense, in terms of the partners that we select differ, but other than that, it's pretty much the straightforward go-to-market.

Got it. And what's your main goal as the CEO for this year? What do you want to achieve with the company?

Again, profitability, that's our main goal, and seems like we are getting there. And of course, we want to use AI more, actually. We want to launch new AI-powered products and features. So that's actually our second goal. And of course, we want to expand into new countries. So that's our protocol.

Where can people find out more about you, Emre?

On LinkedIn, they can send me a message on LinkedIn so that like I, especially if they mention on the request that they hear this from your podcast, like I will accept. I get a lot of requests, but if they actually Write a message on the request. Like I'm happy to connect with them and then talk about Senua or technology or product management in general.

Is Emery and Charles for another?