Mariska Nell - Founder of Trails and Tones

Welcome to another Founder Wisdom pod. We have Mariska Nell with us today. She's on a mission to help dog parents elevate everyday life with their pets without sacrificing style and sustainability. Her company is called Tails and Tones. Mariska is a podcast host, and she— I think the pod is called Tails and Tones as well. Mama Earth Talk is another one that I see here, and I think you've been a designer for quite some time, Mariska. So welcome to the podcast. I'll submit more about yourself and what you're building.

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Charles. So yes, as you've mentioned, I'm the host of Tales and Tones and Mama Earth Talks. I'm very much all about sustainability, and I am currently creating some pet products that's very much inspired by our very own French Bulldog Piper that has just recovered from her 9th surgery. So being a dog mom and realizing all of the challenges there was, And getting stuck in the pouring rain with a French Bulldog in one arm and a broken stroller in the other, I really just felt that the product that's designed for dogs like this, good enough, wasn't good enough in that moment. And I just felt our dogs deserve better and us as dog parents also deserve better. So that kind of got me onto this. But as you've mentioned, I've been a designer for quite some time. So I started off in interior design, I've done some product designs, and now back in focusing on actually creating more sustainable pet products.

And you're in Dubai, right? But are you originally from South Africa?

Yes, originally from South Africa, born and bred. And I have been living on and off in Dubai for the last like 16 years. So we first moved to Dubai in 2010. Then lived in Australia as well. So I kind of picked up accent, picked up the passport, and just been calling the world my home. But yeah, Dubai is the base where we operate in.

Nice. And when when where did the dog happen in between all of that? And what's the story of you finding that dog out?

Yeah. So basically, when we first moved from South Africa to Dubai, I unfortunately couldn't take my dog with me, uh, Hailey, at that time, which was a beautiful Basset Hound that had epilepsy. So she couldn't fly, and she had the best life with my sister. But I've always wanted another dog. And so when Piper came across, um, you know, our path, that was during COVID So she's pretty much a COVID baby. And she really just like changed so much of our lives, you know, making sure we get more active. And while she was still a puppy, I was actually doing my master's in sustainable design. And that was, you know, when we got all of these assignments and things and I was like, oh, what products do I look at? And then I always had a lot of her products. So I kind of looked into the pet industry and that's like kind of when I opened that can of worms, I was just like, Wow, I always know that, you know, I wanted to do more stuff in sustainability and, you know, maybe that, that was kind of my, my next thing to do. So yeah, it kind of led, one thing led to another, but, um, she was very much, you know, the center of this whole company.

Right. And the current product is like elevated eating for dogs. Um, I'm, I'm not sure if I can make the bridge between the pouring rain situation and An elevated feeding station. Tell me what I'm missing out on.

Yeah, so when I set out, so my entire master's thesis was about, um, like pet transportation, and with, I mean, like strollers and like how we move pets around. So then I designed a very elaborate pet stroller that's like almost like a 7-in-1. You can take it on a plane, it's going to be airline approved. But then that came with close to $1 million to manufacture. So I decided, okay, listen, this is not going to be my day one product. It is definitely a one day product, but what else is there? What else does these dogs need and what does these dog parents need? So then I interviewed over 100 dog parents, including previous Nike CMO Greg Hoffman. And then got a lot of details from that and, you know, narrowed that down to like the top 10 products. And then one of the products was actually like the bowl, how the dogs eat, because a lot of people were complaining it slips. And then it wasn't until we were faced again with Piper's health issues, with her having a really bad neck and like shoulder issues, and that was when the penny dropped, when we had to take her to physio. And a lot of people might not have known that you get canine physios. Yes, they're around. And when she asked me, how does your dog eat? And I was like, what do you mean? Like from the floor bowl? I don't understand what it— what are— why are we talking about this? And then she showed me, and like penny drop, because how their movement is when they're eating from the floor versus an elevated, when they come into neutral. That is like 8,000 times across their life that they are going and benching for minutes and minutes at end. So, so that kind of became the sign, okay, maybe we should look into this product further. It was one of my top 10 products that I listed. Let's look into that. And yeah, so now we're doing a research study as well to look at the scientific evidence behind that as well. Comparing what is floor eating and elevated eating, like what is the difference in their body percentage on their joints as well.

Aren't there like a bunch of other luxury-ish elevated platforms? I mean, I'm looking some on Amazon here. What's the difference between this and what you're building?

Yeah, that's a great question. So ours is very much catered for brachycephalic dogs. So it's mainly your short snout dogs like your pugs, your French bulldogs, your Boston terriers, and it's very much focused on medium to like smaller size dogs, and it's very modular. So our bowl can really adapt across your dog's lifespan. So you can get our bowl when your dog's a puppy, and it will kind of grow with the dog. So you can add an extra layer. So our base. Basic package comes with like a base model. You have a 2, like a double bowl, and then you've got your single bowl that kind of stacks, and those 2 you can interchange. So you can have the 2 bowls at the top or the single bowl. And then what is really different about our bowl is that we've got inserts that is very specifically designed for specific eaters. So we have one that is really made like a fork function. So some of these dogs, because their mouths are really deformed and not looking like the wolves from 1,000 years back, they need that little extra help. So it literally serves like a fork. So it was something I spent a long time to perfect, and our dog has been a very good product tester for us. And then we've got slow feeders, we've got, you know, just like a normal plain inserts so you can change in between the inserts and also keep like dinner times or meal times interesting because they can switch in between. So yeah, so it's all these different things that kind of makes us different. We also have a glass insert which we're gonna have as well, and not a lot of companies actually have the glass. So a lot of them have whether it is the silicone and then the stainless steel, so we wanted to offer something like that as well. And we have also consulted or got TerraCycle to look at our full product, look at all of our materials, and make sure that it is actually like a closed-loop system. So we will be able to, you know, have a proper end of life for every single material that we use.

It's easily washable as well. Is that like a feature? The stainless steel and the materials, they're durable. Does it look different or better than the competitors as well?

Yeah, I, I like to think so, but I'm a little bit biased. So a lot of my friends and people that has been joined on our waitlist, they really like the design. They say that it's something that they don't have to hide when people come to their house. So, and why I've also designed it in such a way that it's very hard for the dogs to actually tip it over, because with a lot of our competitors, their bowls, when we've tested it out, Piper was very easily just like tipping it over when she wants to get to that last bite and she can't get it. She'll just smack it and it will, you know, kind of go everywhere. So ours is designed not to do that. So it's It's just designed in a different way. And yeah, so we try to look at the entire experience and the entire system and see how can we make this better for like pet parents and then also for the dogs to really support them so that, you know, we've got a product that looks out for their longevity as well.

And how quick can you take this to market?

So at the moment, we are getting our first prototype ready, which will be— it will look exactly like our final one. We're getting that in hopefully about 3 weeks. If we are all good with that, then we would be able to get to the market in about 120 days.

120 days. Okay. Do you have like mass manufacturing figured out? How much of these will you make initially? Where is it made? Where is it shipped? Tell me a bit more.

Yeah. So we have decided on a manufacturer in south of China. And I've been working with a company based in the US that also has, you know, a lot of partners in China. So it's been really kind of helped a lot because, you know, when you manufacture your first physical product, there's a lot of stuff you have to think about. And so, yeah, so it will be manufactured there. And we are actually launching a crowdfunding. So that is how we are going to determine how many units we're going to order. So we will order the exact amount that we get from our crowdfunding, plus at least another like 2,000 units to get us started.

On the website you can get like quick discount, right? Like what will be the final price? And if it's tailored to the, I don't know, luxury market. Yeah, I'm curious to hear about the price.

Yeah. So the price will definitely be a lot more than what our competitors are at the moment. It's just because, you know, our product is a little bit more modular. There's a lot more tooling cost and everything involved. So we are hopefully finalizing our pricing in the next 2 weeks when we get our model. But we hope to be able to launch at like the Kickstarter around $150 for the base model. So it is a little bit more expensive than some of our competitors, but We want this product to be able to be there to support you and your dog throughout your entire dog's lifespan. And we designed the products so that, you know, it will last you that time. And you can buy like additional inserts as well and kind of have like one being used, one in the wash. And it's also designed in such a way with like the double bowls. So like for a lot of dogs, they prefer to drink water out of the smaller bowls. but have food out of the single. So it's like one setup, one thing that you can, you know, just use and make life easy for you. And yeah, so as time goes and as we grow, we will have more inserts. So we're working on 5 additional slow feeders as well. So really to be able to offer for a wide variety because we feel, you know, with Dogs, not all of them eat the same. So why should we give the same slow feeder for a wide variety of different speed feeders and maybe ones that don't need it? So yeah, so we want to be able to offer something that is not yet available and make people's lives better and also their dogs.

And so estimate of MSRP, right? Would it be, I don't know, $100 per unit or is Is that the price?

So yeah, so we still, we're still finalizing that, but yeah, with the Kickstarter price, we're looking at, you know, being able to offer the people literally the lowest price that I can physically sell it without bankrupting myself and paying you to take it. So we want to do our Kickstarter so that we can get the bowl out, get the bowl made, and then yeah, so that's That's kind of the price mark or range which we're looking at.

Would there be a way to have these bowls made out of a material that's antibacterial, right? Like, I think, uh, dog, uh, mouth health is a huge problem and a huge market, um, way more than just like a posture, right? Like, have you thought about that one and a potential product to actually fix it?

Yeah, so I mean, it comes to the bacterias and stuff, that's why with the inserts itself we wanted to use— we didn't want to use ceramic because of that, because, you know, hairline cracks and things that can, you know, make sure bacteria stays there. So that's why we opted for the glass ones and also the stainless steel. So obviously our base model, that is still like a kind of, um, you know, plastic combination, and the reason we had to go with that is because of the lifespan and also going back and forth with lifecycle analysis. So we've always said if there is a better product or a better material that becomes available, we want to be able to, you know, adjust as that comes. But at the moment, we're just going with what, like, the science is telling us based on all of that would be the best for the product that we wanted to design. But we will in the future also have like teeth cleaning drops that can actually work with the glass because a lot of the teeth cleaning drops that's available on the market you cannot use with stainless steel bowls as well as not really with silicone. So that is another reason why we decided let's offer, you know, the glass that is not really available at the moment.

And isn't your first and best market Dubai, which is like luxury market, get into retail? And I mean, you're there as well. Wouldn't that make sense to go like retail and physical first before you go online?

Yeah, that is a great question. So it is a little bit harder to sell retail stuff here. So if you want to have it in like physical stores, so there's a little bit more from like a licensing perspective that has to be done. But yeah, so we're planning on actually keeping stock here in the UAE, but our main target market at the moment is the US. And it is just because that is such a larger market where a lot of the education for our bowl has already been done there. But yeah, the UAE is definitely going to be one of the markets because I am here. But yeah, our biggest one we're targeting at the moment is the US.

Why are you so bullish also on the crowdfunding campaign? And is that still working? I think you told me last time you hired an agency or something, but yeah, tell me more.

Yeah. So what I like about crowdfunding is, so I'm quite a big fan of Kickstarter and also supporting startups and things. And I think what platforms like that actually offer you is the opportunity to really provide a unique product, but also to build an audience. So if you don't already have a massive following and you want to launch a product, it is, it is a little bit harder. Whereas, you know, platforms are, if you are doing very well, they do promote you a bit more. And it is one of those things that if you've had a successful, you know, crowdfunding, it also adds up value for later when, you know, you do think about exiting a company. And so we do want to tend to keep all of our options open. And with crowdfunding, it's also quite a good way to not physically have to manufacture everything. You basically have to have a working prototype and that is most of the time all. You don't have to have manufacturing sorted and all of those details and have molding and things like that. So that is where kind of all the cost is. And the other thing that I really like about this is if I'm talking very big now and saying, oh, we're gonna, you know, make $200K on our Kickstarter, and we actually just fall flat on our face and no one wants to buy our bowl, I hope Charles is going to put in an order for someone. I don't know who, but— But hopefully we can sell one book.

For one of my 5 dogs.

And so if that happens, then, you know, you have not invested all of the money that you would have to really make this product. So I think it is a way, it's a really good way to test the market, build that anticipation. And if you've got a good product and a good campaign behind you, and, you know, I, I I can't see that it will not be successful. I'm being bullish and being biased about, obviously, but I definitely think, you know, seeing all of the Kickstarters that has actually made success over the last like 90 days has been really amazing and inspiring. So I think it is, it gives startups an option without having to go and get an investor. And that would be kind of the next thing. If you've got a very successful Kickstarter campaign, Then, you know, automatically that makes people see, oh wow, okay, they've raised $200K, maybe they've got something here, you know. Whereas if you don't have a product yet, you don't have the sales, it makes it a little bit less inviting for investors to say, yes, I'm gonna bet $200,000 on you here, just go, I don't know, make your bowl.

Yeah. And on the side to fund all of this, you're still doing some product design work, which you're consulting firm, right? Are you all into this?

So currently all into this, but I do offer consulting still. So I do pet audits as well, so for the pet industry. So a lot of hotels and F&B places, and this is not just Dubai-based, so this is like kind of global, because now currently a lot of places want to become pet-friendly, but they kind of, you know, do all the tick-the-box exercises, but when the reviews come in, it's like, oh, you know, we weren't really felt very welcoming at this hotel or at this place. So I try to kind of step in and offer them 4 different options of consulting services that they can really take what they've got and amplify that and make it a very welcoming experience. So I am doing that. And then yes, I do still do Mama Earth Talk as well, which is my sustainability stuff as well. So I still work on different panels and consulting with that as well. But yeah, the main focus is that. So it is hard juggling because obviously, you know, when you look at how much money goes into building a product like what we've designed with Tailspoons, it doesn't come cheap. But yeah, hopefully it will all pay off.

Thank you so much for showing up today, Mariska. Where can people find out more about you?

Yeah, sure. Well, they can find me on my LinkedIn, Mariska Now, um, or on our website or on our podcast, Tales and Tones. So like tail, like a dog tail, tales, and tones, like your tone of voice. So the dog tail and the tone, Tales and Tones. They can find us online. And they can join our waitlist there as well if they want to be one of the first people to hear all about when our Kickstarter launch.

There you go. So that was Mariska and Charles.