🧵Starting from Nothing with Barjis Chohan

And we are live with Barges Chohan. Barges is an interesting person, say the least. She started a company, fashion company, some time ago from her kitchen. Fun fact. Yesterday I was reading the Christian Dior biography, and it is something to start such a business. She also does rugs and home decor, all of that. And the 2000s. Right. I guess a lot of companies are doing that. A lot of these companies don't have that edge, I would say, because Barges loves to tell a story behind her collections. I really like that she has a different approach to things. Also started from nothing. So really honored to have her on the podcast today. Barges, can you introduce yourself? Tell us a bit more about your company.

Hi, there. Thank you very much for inviting me. My name is Barges Chohan. I'm the founder of my namesake brand, Barges Barges London. We've been in operation since year 2000. So we've celebrated kind of 23 years. Been in business. Started as Charles is saying. You were saying that we started from humble beginnings with my little savings that I did on a freelance project based in Monte Carlo. And I was heavily pregnant with my first child. And I decided to set up my business at that time because I wanted to take the power back into my hands and not do a 9 to 5 job and look after my baby once I can kind of start a small business. So basically, it's from the kitchen table, started painting. And being an entrepreneur, I thought, I can't really make a lot of money painting or, you know, selling art because I don't have that patience. So I thought, okay, this. This painting would look great as a rug. And that's how my journey started. So once I delivered, I took my baby, my mother, and my husband to Dubai, literally knock on people's doors, interior designers, architects, and said, this is what we do. We do bespoke rugs. Would you be interested? And it was only a week. And I got my first project because I really wanted to make it work. So this person took a chance and gave me my first break. And since then, it's been grown organically. We've diversified into fashion in 2011, launched it at Dubai Fashion Week, and it's grown organically. Now we've got different products, and we're going to be venturing into jewelry and handbags to kind of scale the business with accessories.

Not an easy business that you chose. And I really love what you said. You know, you got your first customer in the first week because that intensity, that intention of yours was lethal. You were not going back, and maybe you had a chip on your shoulder. Most entrepreneurs that I interview have that, and they're like, yeah, I'm either gonna make it or I am gonna die trying, you know? And I also speak with entrepreneurs that I see not going anywhere. Actually, most of them are not entrepreneurs. They go back to 9 to 5 because they don't have that desire that. That drive to really accomplish that do or die mentality. What do you have to say about that?

I totally agree. For me, I think your formative years and your childhood really has an impact on how you perceive life. Coming from an immigrant family, seeing my dad struggle financially too, in London, it kind of gave me that determination to do something with my life. Also, I feel that my personality is not fit for nine to five. I did try it for about a couple of years, but I feel that I'm the one. I'm very outspoken and I speak my. I live with passion. And if I don't wake up in the morning doing something that I really love and it's got some kind of purpose, I don't put my hundred percent into it. So for me, it's not just about making money. I think a lot of entrepreneurs think that, okay, they want to. They have an exit plan, but I've never had an exit plan because for me, this is an extension of who I am. This brand I hope has the longevity to surpass, you know, my lifetime. So for me, it's a long run. It's not about quick exit plan, make your millions and then do something else. A lot of people do that, which is fantastic. Good for them. But for me, it's not just money. It's purposeful. It's making that impact for someone, a Muslim woman going into an elitist fashion industry wearing a hijab. I mean, you know, I get a kick out of it, to be honest. I like doing something which is a bit dangerous, and it gives me the chance, especially someone coming from a conservative family, to be rebellious, which we don't really get a chance to do. So my work is a tool or a way of actually showing that personality, which sometimes people think is suppressed, but it's not. It comes up in my work.

I'm the same way. And is probably one of my worst nightmare, quite literally, to come back on the nine to five. And I. I say that not with any puns. You know, I literally dream. And sometimes some periods of my life, I had, like, a lot of recurring nightmares of me sitting in a school and having an exam. You know, what is worse than. Than that as a feeling, you know, like that someone else will decide or grade you. Someone else that most of the time is not competent in the educational system. Yeah, I really was stuck in there. I remember watching the clock on the wall. Then I remember my bosses, my incompetent bosses telling me what to do. And when I told them what to do, they fired me, you know, so that. That was my past life. So, Charles, imagine a couple seconds if you would come back to that life. Me, I cannot imagine another life than the one that I'm living right now. And for that reason, just getting up and having the opportunity to work for myself is the dream opportunity. So. And wherever I am in the world, even if I'm. I'm financially poor, you know, I will be happy to be my own boss and to have that freedom. Thank you for sharing that. I want to ask, though, like me, I'm privileged, right? I'm from Canada. I'm white. You don't have the same situation, obviously, on your side. Diversity. I mean, a lot of people have used diversity for money in the last few years. I'm pretty sure that. That you haven't done that. But do you think that inclusion and starting these programs and all of that actually helped you in specific? Because my understanding is that you're a hustler, and with or without help, you would have made it. What do you have to say about that? And how or should we help folks that are not. Do not have the same privilege as I rise to the top.

First of all, I don't think you. If you're privileged, I'm privileged, too. I don't believe that we're defined by our skin color. You know, this whole notion of being white and being privileged, I don't really agree on it. I think we all have our own issues, challenges in life, and we can't say someone is more privileged than the other. Because I believe that when I was born, I was privileged. Yeah. Because God gave me life and my parents gave me life. And, you know, I had the wings to fly at that point. So I don't. I see the glass half full, not half empty. Once again, it's all about accountability. When I'm in the boardroom or when I'm in a meeting, yes, other people might feel awkward in my presence, but after a few minutes, they actually listen to barges because she bloody well makes sense. Then my hijab becomes invisible. So I don't like this idea of actually people coming from the ethnic minority thinking that we are less privileged than anyone else. You know, for me, just wearing the hijab it's not a barrier, actually, it's a conversation starter. You know, people are curious to know why I wear the hijab. And that forms human connection. You know, it allows people to ask the right questions, sometimes the wrong questions. But that's life. But I don't think that. I think we are all equal. It depends on how you want to see life. I don't believe in victimhood and I don't believe in the idea that one race is superior to the other.

I love that perspective, although my challenging to it. And I mean, I had that conversation yesterday with an Asian guy yesterday in Netherlands and he said, there's two children to the drunk father. One will say, I am a drunkard today because of my drunk father. And the other said, I'm the successful entrepreneur because of my drunk father. Yet, like, life is complex, right? It's like having two twins, same genetics, everything. But one becomes that when the other becomes that other way. So what circumstances, you know, what piece of data in this reality brought them to change? Because he told me that. Because I told him that me, I have an entrepreneurial father. I was gifted with a decent IQ genetically, and I still struggled from 15 to 19. I was a drunkard, actually. And I was like, okay, what about kids that do not have an entrepreneurial father and do not have iq? How hard it must be for them. Is that good thinking or do you think that because I was born in privilege, I actually got into alcohol in the first place? What do you think about that?

I think, yeah, genetics helps, to be honest, but I think your environment also helps. And who you actually interact with shapes the way you become, basically. So I've had some amazing role models in my life, whether it's my paternal uncle who started cleaning gutters in Pakistan to become the 1 biggest contractor in Karachi and building most of the buildings in Karachi to my paternal, another uncle who actually left his home from Mumbai and traveled on the train at the age of 15 to make his life. And he was adopted by my granddad and he actually gave up all his life to raise my dad, who was, you know, he was an orphan at a young age. So I've had some amazing people and I just see them as inspiration. And when I look at their lives and compare it to my life, I mean, it makes me very grateful. I wake up in the morning and I think, oh my God, I am privileged. I have had a good life and it's because of these people that I am here today. So when I have that kind of feel sorry for Me kind of thing. Yes. My dad struggled because he came from a very, you know, privileged background in Pakistan, and here he had to downgrade his life. You know, he wasn't used to actually, you know, people doing. He had to do everything. He had to work in the factories when he started out because his apprenticeship and qualification was not really highly regarded in London. But, you know, he didn't really work in Pakistan. So it's not. I believe that it depends on your perspective and who you hang around with. And I am privileged because I've had an opportunity to meet these incredible people, and that's why my perspective is different to someone else. So I can't judge them and they can't judge me. But I just feel that we waste a lot of time feeling sorry for ourselves when really we have the power to change our lives.

I love that narrative because it's. It's somewhat spicy and different from what's out there nowadays with the pity parties of diversity and so forth. I had. I listened to a podcast yesterday that kind of shocked me, and I was, like, kind of against it for. For a while, but listening to the guy and keep on hearing what he had to say, which is a similar narrative, it all made sense, you know, so the guys from the army, he was deployed, and he started the podcast saying, like, trauma doesn't exist, but physical trauma exists, you know, and then he. His example, which kind of makes. So the first statement is kind of controversial. Although we could define if there's mental disease, if their mental construct or not. That's another conversation. And a lot of people would be against it, right? Oh, depression and existence of work. Um, but I would reply, what about placebo? You know, like, you can. I can invent a depression in me, and I can be physically and. And clinically depressed in a couple of days if you. If you give me time to. To go in a full pity party. And the guy, his example was there's a bunch of emergency people and police forces that see disgusting stuff on a daily basis, like body ripped in half, fights, violence, people that, you know, are disfigured by horrible stuff and they don't get traumatized. You know, while the. The army force, a lot of the veterans that got in the army in the first place because they were kind of lost. I think that the sense of purpose is. Is the main thing here. They came back in there, they're depressed, they have ptsd, and they cannot go on with his life. And the guy, he's a veteran himself, and he was like, yeah, it's time to stop that. That pity party and it start. It's time to. To move forward, you know, and be positive, go to the gym and stop being weak, you know, And I love that narrative because it's different. It's also very controversial. That being said, looking at your story barges, basically I see that you were probably gifted an education from your parents. Is that a fair thing to say? Like, did they always prioritize education with you?

I didn't really have this kind of helicopter parents where they came from immigrant families, so they had to push us. But my dad, he knew I was academically clever and he wanted me to become a doctor. But I just thought that because of my conservative family and my upbringing, I wanted to go into a career where I'm creative and I can think outside the box. And I feel that in medicine, I couldn't do that. I couldn't take those risks because there is. You're clinically trained, obviously you're saving lives. And the whole idea of wearing a white coat and looking powerful, that didn't really appeal for me. I wanted to be more in control with what I wanted to do with my career. So I think academia, definitely in the South Asian community is really pushed. And sometimes I feel that a lot of the youth who I work with in the initiative, they have been pushed and forced into careers which they didn't really want to do and they're not really happy doing it, but they just felt that they had to do it to just have peace in their family, while I kind of chose the other, other route. So. So for me, it's like whatever I do, even if it's fashion show, I haven't done a fashion show since 2017. And the reason why is because I saw a young model faint at one of my shows. And I felt responsible. And I thought, hang on a minute, one minute. I'm talking about all these positive stuff and, you know, trying to save the world. And here I am, this young model actually fainting because she starved her body for three days just to be at my show. And I thought, let me take the power back. I'm the decision maker. I'm not going to do shows. I don't have to do this. There are other ways of marketing your product. If people like it, they will buy it. So I like that idea is like, you know, there are no rules. You make your own rules as you're going along. So if everyone's turning right, I tend to turn left, and that's just the way I do it.

Yeah, because you started Your career on fire off the gates at G Key Monte Carlo creation. I mean, yeah, that, that was like very prestigious. So again, to what you were saying, people probably see the eja, but they, they speak to you and they're like, holy shit, she's a brain. You and I need to have her on my team. So you started there. A couple of years later you started your business and from there became a speaker, spoke at various notable company like Champion Women in IT Summit. We are Pentagon. So that, I mean, you're quite successful. What's next for you? What's next in the next couple months and a couple of years?

As I said, we really want to scale the business so we're focusing heavily on accessories, handbags. We want to do sustainability, sustainability. Even though sustaining sustainability is a buzzword and it's very, very hard to actually launch a product that is 100 sustainable. But we want to kind of strive to go in that direction. So definitely accessories we want to do. I want to scale the business in America. I feel there is a lot of potential, especially from the inquiries I'm getting. So we would like to have a small office set up in the U.S. that's where we are. But I think now it's at that point that the brand is pretty established. People kind of know what we're about and we're not just about, you know, a certain type. We've kind of moved away from just modest fashion, but we've kind of diversified and given access point for other clients, other customers to actually buy into our products. Which was a challenge because everyone kind of just called me BBC or whatever the media they used to just wanted to know, you know, about modest fashion. But then bringing religion into it, when religion has kind of got nothing to do with the business. It's just I was catering for a market that was deprived about modest fashion, elegant fashion. And then when I launched the business, I realized that it's not just Muslim women who wear modest clothing. Actually there are a lot of Christian, Jewish, atheist women who choose to wear modest clothing. So it really kind of branched out. So I think people come to me because they know that the product is good and it's going to last them and they have this sentimental value attached to it. Like for example, One rug buyer 20 years ago emailed me and said, I would like to actually put this rug in my will because I want to pass it on to my children. So, so that for me, that, that is success for me that the fact that, you know, customers are going to put my product in their will. And I hope that's how I define sustainability.

Right. I love rugs myself. My feet love rugs and their beauty. They're so comfy. Very cool business that you have. Bhaji's work and people find out more about it.

I think they can find more about it through our website. Sending us an email, talking to us and seeing what they want. Because we really like working on a one to one basis. Even though the business is growing, I like to have a personal relationship with my clients so they would be actually talking to me directly because I like talking to new customers. So just having a conversation of what they want and what they're looking for, whether it's interior designer, architect, or a private customer, you know, just.